>> hi i am geraldo rivera. we are live and at large. let me start tonight's programs with two facts nobody on the right or left can deny. number one, proceedings in the congress of the united states date back over 215 years. but never ever in that 215 years has an attorney general been held in contempt of congress. the historic nature of the show down between congress and the white house over those documents concerning fast and furious under scores what a big deal this constitutional confrontation real is. will house republicans follow

through? >> will the house vote attorney general holder in contempt this week? >> i believe they will both republicans and dem claocrats w vote that. >> no doubt in your mind they will hold him in contempt. >> if he would simply start producing the documents they knew they could produce they are not going to in any means be executive privilege this can be delayed or even eliminated. we have to see the documents first we can't have a promise we are going to be satisfied and dismissed. >> over a year ago chairman ice saw accused -- issa accused holder of authorizing these tactics and nothing could be further from the truth from the evidence we have already gotten. there is no evidence that he knew about it. he authorized or condoned it. three distinguished members of congress investigate the fast and furious. this has by federal agents in

arizona in which illegally purchased weapons from the united states were able to walk over the border to reach mexican drug bandits and were later used to murder order agent brian perry. we welcome congresswoman sandy adams from florida. delight to do see her here in new york. she is a member of the judiciary committee. lower recei loretta sanchez of the homeland security committee. home land prosecutor on the oversight committee which is leading the charge to have the attorney general sited for an tempt of refusing for handing over ten that he is of thousands of documents related to fast and furious. welcome everyone. colle congressman going to go out of order gentlemen before the ladies. is there any evidence either the attorney general of the united states or the president either condoned or authorized or even knew about fast and furious

prior to agent perry's death? >> the short answer is no. i don't have any evidence eric holder or the president knew about the gun walking fast and furious. the second question is whether or not he shied have known it. there were scores of memos addressed to the attorney general that even casual reading would have put the reader on notice of gun walking and fast and furious. attorney general says he didn't read them. you have no reason not to lea believe him. he is not being held in contempt of congress because he won't turn over documents. you just said there is no evidence that he knew about the operation so what you are talking about is a coverup? oo well, the fact that he

didn't know about it doesn't mean that others in the department of justice didn't know about it. in fact, senior level doj officials very much knew about it. so whether eric holder knew about it is asking and important on one level but despite the democrat mantra to the contrary it is about getting answers if he didn't know about it certainly his criminal de vision chief did. i can't answer your question fully because i have one-tenth of the documents. i don't suspect that eric holder the attorney general knew about gun walking any more than gonzalez or mckaz zee knew about gun walking. what i suspect is there was a demonstrably false letter on doj letter head and like it or not he is responsible for what goes out on that letter head when his acting associated attorney general wrote the letter, the criminal chief forwarded that letter to the private e-mail account before it was deliver to

do congress and we are entitled to know how a demonstrably false letter could have been sent to congress. >> since the president the attorney general sent the letter congressman goudy is so peeved about is this worth holding the attorney general in the united states in contempt of congress for the first time. >> i used to be a law enforcement officer so i understand the way law enforcement work. never see a weapon walk you will see that weapon at the crime scene or maybe you will be looking down the barrel. you have hierarchy. somebody in that agency approved it. somebody knew about it. what we are asking for is a document to let us know how it came about who approved it. it went over national borders. how do we prevent it from

happening again. we have to get documented dually subpoenaed. >> i ask again, is it worth siting an attorney general for the first time in our history for contempt? >> it is if he is the top law enforcement officer. the law says if you are dually subpoenaed you turn over those records. he is supposed to be upholding the law of our nation. congresswoman sanchez you heard the republican from south carolina republican from florida give a point of view sincerely with their own impassioned presentation. shouldn't the attorney general have handed over these documents as the legal subpoena request? >> i am not on the committee that is overseeing that as the first representative is, but i will say that our documents how many of you turn over which

documents. from my understanding the subpoena was very broad and so not knowing the exact details of what are in the documents i am not sure if he handed over a thousand that were good or handed over 70,000 that were good. my understanding is there was a good amount we don't know what is in or out of them for the committee of jurisdictions. some have said that they are after the attorney general. it is gift to -- because they are basing this on a process. this is a process. i don't really think that you hold in contempt somebody like the attorney go the attorney general for a process admittedly by most of the committee members they knew nothing of this program. >> everyone we will take a brief time-out. we will continue the discussion on the other side of the commercial break. up next after going almost 3 and

a half years, why is the president in the united states invoking executive privilege for the first time now? also the lawyer for trayvon martin scrutinizes the george zimmerman case. and the sheriff joins me life to explain his department's recent arrest for a 6-year-old immigrant. [ morgan ] lopez lomong started running when he was six and he didn't stop for three days and nights as he escaped life as a child soldier. twenty years later, he was still running, he just had a different thing driving him. every step of the way. ♪ visa. supporting athletes and the olympic games for 25 years. join our global cheer.

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at regions we've streamlined applying for a loan so that you get honest answers in about 30 minutes. it's sure time somebody did. sfx: bike bell they misled the congress and covered up the truth. >> no man is about the constitution. that's the bottom line. that's the foundation for english law the found dags for united states law. it doesn't matter if you are the common man or president of the united states every american is under the constitution and this president is thumbing his nose at the constitution and acting in defiance of the constitution.

we are saying enough is enough. >> last week some compared fast and furious to watergate. others ridiculed and compared it to remember when dna burton shot a pumpkin in his backyard to prove that he was the victim of murder not suicide. which is it? is it ridiculous or is it profound? what do you think? sandy adams from florida what do you think? >> i agree with michelle bachmann. no one is above the law. it was interesting to see that mr. holder met with chairman ice saw the night before the rule to show you the documents in the investigation. that's not what you do. you reinforce the documents that you have been dually subpoenaed for. then at the 11th hour before it drops in committee we executive privilege pulled. which is it? either you weren't involved didn't know anything about it or you did. or you did. which is it?

>> you think congressman bane another is write that the president is hiding something with executive privilege? >> i think that what happened by doing that at the 11th hour when that subpoena had been out for almost 8 months, 8 months, why now? that is what begs the question. >> before i get back to congressman goudy and ask what he thinks will happen this week before i run out of time here i have to ask for your comment on this controversy over president obama's kind of back door amnesty for young i am gravenlts do you think he can -- immigrants. do you think he can with stand this or do you think it was a political act or was this something you applaud? >> geraldo, there were several things that the republicans told us. i sit on the committee jurisdiction with respect to that. they said listen, we want you to secure the borders. we want you to start supporting people. we want you to get rid of the

criminals. we want you to go after the employers who hire people illegally and find them. you you know this because you know the hispanic community. this and the immigrant community. lots of immigrants not just hispanics that are under these issues. so what happened is president obama did that he has been securing the border he has gone after the employers supported more people than even under president bush's term. so he did all of the things that the republicans said they wanted to see before they would start doing the positive pieces of immigration reform which were what do we do with the people that are here, what do we do about families and about the people who the 11 million, 12 million people were here. this little piece of it this piece that says, if you are a child that was brought here through no fault of your own and you have grown-up as an american and you have done great in school and you are one of those people that we need to make our

economy go well we are going to give you a two-year visa to help you work here in the united states. >> this is a very small group of people, they are people who we need as a country. we need them for our economy. you know what? taste those piece that is the republican said they would start to look at and they would work with us to do as long as we did the other pieces. presidented obama did that. it is time to do positive things. >> give me 50 seconds addressing the rays of the 6-year-old undocumented immigrant on the same day the president made that announcement? >> we already know from having had investigations, it is a wild card. it doesn't really follow the law. >> it is very typical. it is ridiculous to arrest the six-year-old for being in this

country. >> i will play that clip again when joe joins us in a half an hour. fray goudy it is great to get to know all of you guys in the course of this story. what do you think will happen this week? will he cite the attorney general for contempt? >> i was discussing border security at the same time we were talking about weapons that made it from the united states to mexico. let me wipe the smile off my face when i hear the word border security. he will be held in contempt of congress. it is a sad day for one who worked for the department of justice. i hope what happens is he will come in and say i am going to give you all of the documents you are entitled to so you can get the answers. the last time you and i talked you asked a fair question is there a way to negotiate?

to get out of this. if i asked you to only ask me half of the questions you had written out or do you want 70 percent of the truth on fast and furious you would laugh you would say no i am not going to limit my questions. then i need all of the truth. how can i give you all of the truth if i don't have all of the documents? i don't want everything related to an ongoing investigation. i don't want everything related to a wire tap application. i want the rest of the documents to walk until pbrian perry's family how this happened and guarantee it will never happen again. short of that, he will be held in contempt of congress. i regret that. he has nothing to blame but himself. >> i have to leave it there. it is so nice to see you representative senator adams enjoy new york. delighted to have you here in the city. up next our legal panel weighs in on the fast and furious. back to immigration arizona

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>> president obama has gone longer than any president in the last decades. >> excellent excuse. obama held out so long. >> it's like virginity. you hold on to it for as long as possible and then you say i got to have it, man. got to have a little executive privilege. >> funny guy. now to our panel the author of this provocative new book hospital takeover resisting government strangle hold on america. read my blush. here is elilis wiehl and arthure

dal law. you have congress wanting to fight the attorney general for failing to and over the documents. he is invoking executive privilege he is saying wait a second you can't hold over the documents i invoke executive privilege. >> they are now colliding. >> who is right? does the constitution favor the president's invocation of executive privilege or does congress have the power over this? >> each of the branchs are supposed to be consecutive and separate, right? so i would say it is equal. >> that's what the fore fathers who say. thomas jefferson and george washington. they would say congress is more powerful than the executive branch. don't forget geraldo they are not to have one individual the king or the president have that

much power. >> i think the way it is even played out is congress says we need to see this. the president has to have some -- here's my ruling it would be the ultimate author. >> what would they say? >> 5-4 they rule the congress. >> thank you. >> it can't be argued can it not. saving the government money this is a tax payer funded fishing expedition fast and furious. >> i don't think so. i think what this president has done is so dramatically expanded executive authority. it didn't start with obama but they are starting to see we have lost this whole tradition of over sight and accountability that comes from the bottom up not the top down. the legislative branch is supposed to have these questions and they are saying forget you. >> what about the argument these

kinds of pros and the same thing about john ashcroft the same thing about alberto gonzalez the other party always attacks the attorney general. >> it is always politics. there is politics in everything the legislative and the executives do. that doesn't mean we shouldn't have this kind of over site. the last thing you want is executive that has everything they want. >> are you saying the tea party wants this rather than congress paying attention to the taxes we pay. >> this is a doctored digs that started with george washington. this is not a new thing. >> what about the precedent here? 215 years we have gone without contempt of congress. now it is over this. we know holder didn't kill agent terry president obama didn't. is it serious enough is it does it rise to the level of such

profound constitutional import that it would be this extraordinary unprecedented first time ever act by congress? >> good answer, maybe. because it is not about what happened in fasz and furious. it's about the potential cover up after the february 4th, 2011, letter. that's the issue for the oversight committee. they are after all overseeing. if they don't do that what is hear job then? >> however we have the situation here arthur isn't the ugly stench of partisanship all over? >> yes. >> wouldn't you as an attorney argue that? >> 100 percent geraldo. a lot of things going on right now the ugly partnership all over it. i was reminded of i was listening to lis. one of the executive privilege the way you can invoke it if you could prove it has something to do with national security and 2k3wi6ing it to congress at this

particular point would compromise -- >> that's not what they are asking for another. they are asking for what came after february 4th. which has nothing to do with national security. >> how do we know the next president is going to -- >> document says agents are in violation of -- what attorney gener general will not give even if i am not going to tell you here's what i am not going to tell you. they wouldn't give that. >> i think he makes a strong case for self defense. what do you think? america's toughest sheriff explains the bust to a 6-year-old. after this.

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where your doctor wants? ask your doctor if crestor is right for you. [ female annouer ] if you can't afford your medication, astra zeneca may be able to help. >> live from america's news headquarters i am marianne rafferty. one person is dead after two trains collide. a conductor on one of the trains was not hurt. they are searching for two missing personnel. each of the trains is carrying a crew of two. it happened when a westbound train with three locomotives and 80 cars collided with an eastbound train. two locomotives from one train and three from another caught fire. tim pawlenty didn't to be mitt romney's running mate. he told face the nation it would be an honor to be asked to run as vice president but he thinks he could better serve the republican ticket in other ways. he briefly ran for the gop nomination last year but dropped out and endorsed romney.

naur back to geraldo at large. you are watching the most powerful name in news fox news channel. >> felt like my body was on the ground my head was on the cement. he kept swinging and swinging. i kept yelling help, help, help. he put his hand on on my nose and another hand on my mouth. he said shut the (bleep) up. >> they are out showing the neighborhood watch happened the hours and the days after the homicide trying to explain how and why he killed trayvon martin four months ago in sanford, florida. test the zimmerman tape against one of zimmerman's harshest critics from p torn o/* the attorney of one of the >> he said you are going to die.

i saw his arm going down to my side i grabbed it and i grabbed my firearm and i shot him. >> a compelling video recreation of what happened the tragic night of february 26th. george zimmerman tries to explain to police why and how he killed vtrayvon martin right at this spot. many people say his staples to policeman knee find it a contradiction. >> when you consider the stand your ground law you can't be the person who pursues an individual and confronts that individual and say i was standing my ground. >> zimmerman's own words could prove he was stalking and pursuing the teenager in a sanford florida neighborhood he was staying with family friends according to attorney again crump. >> he was running. >> which way was he running? >> down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. >> he made a decision that

trayvon martin was a criminal. that trayvon martin was up to no good. >> where was he standing? >> right there. >> this leads directly to the road where he was coming from. that makes a lot more sense to me. >> 18-year-old sierra mcclinton whose brother austin witnessed the deadly confrontation says the location he first spotted trayvon is a well-known short cut to 7-11. >> if somebody is lingering between the homes this is a direct path locals take in order to get access to the commercial area? >> right. >> he's coming to check me out he has something in his hands. i don't know what his deal is. >> george zimmerman makes a pretty compelling scenario says he circled around my car in a threatening way. >> it's the common sense test if somebody is circling your car you feel threatened why do you get out of your car. >> are you following him? >> yeah.

>> you don't need to do that. >> what is your name? >> george. >> the dispatcher asked are you pursuing him? he says yes. he just said trayvon is getting away. he is going. we also know trayvon is talking on the phone with his friend and she says she told trayvon to run. >> i walked all of the way to the street and i was going to going to give them this address. >> what address if you park in front of? >> i don't know. it's a cut through so i don't know the address. >> on his statement to the nonemergency line zimmerman states he left his truck and walked to this area to find an address. but in fact this area is the back of the apartment and it doesn't post the address. >> why don't you tell the police dispatcher that you have a gun when you get out of the car? >> crump says zimmerman was parked on the route trayvon would likely take to the

apartment. >> he got on top of me somewhere around here. that's when i started screaming for help. i started screaming help, help as loud as i could. then is when he grabbed me. oh, i tried to sit up and that's when he grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down. >> based on his statement you would think trayvon would have all kinds of injuries to his hands. where is the evidence? trayvon martin never knew who this person was that confronted him. we believe ep went to his grave not knowing who this strange man was who was chasing after him and who confronted him. all of the objective evidence says george zimmerman pursued trayvon martin. >> it strikes me watching the tape ben crump does a good job so does george zimmerman. almost as if he had enough knowledge of the law self defense and stand your ground when he talked to those cops the initial interviews he knew

exactly he was setting up his own defense. >> exactly right. that's what ben crump says. he has just enough knowledge to establish vay von was the attacker von was in a suspicious area he was reaching in his waist band. he tried to establish him as a stalker because that's the only way he could use the stand your ground defense. >> what you don't see you don't hear anything is george zimmerman ever saying this is a black guy. race played no part. he said suspicious. he didn't use black didn't use a pejorative didn't say african american. there was no reference to the race of the victim. >> he does in fact say the officer asked him to identify this person he does say that he is a black personer you but he never identifies himself as neighborhood watch captain.

he never says to police that he had a gun. >> he asked him is he black, white or piss panic? >> he did. >> we know trayvon martin is the victim, but i think this is a powerful document for self defense. >> for zimmerman, yes, it is. but i think you are exactly right in saying that he knew enough when he had that initial confrontation, not confrontation, interview with the police to say this is what happened. but the physical evidence will be so important here. sglirm man does evidence bruising and cuts and trayvon martin did not. >> are you changing your mind? >> i am not there yet. i am not there yet. >> arthur, you represent -- you are a fine attorney. mark omira? >> respectfully i disagree. i don't practice law that way. i would never have my client who is a defendant. it would be different if it was an eyewitness who is not the

actual defendant. every word will be used against him. >> i don't -- it is a court of public opinion. >> exactly. >> if he was geraldo rivera -- >> where does the tapes get released? we have zimmerman condoning or supporting the perjury of his wife. she goentz stand lies about how much money they have. the country hates zimmerman again and the hate zimmerman resurgence, he dumps the tape. you look at the tape you say you know what? >> as a current practicing criminal defense attorney geraldo when that jury comes back in the room and they have a ferdinand you don't know what the verdict is, you don't really give a flying anything about what the court of public opinion is. you care what the court of those

12 jurors think. >> it makes a lot of sense. i am not saying i condone it but to get it out now makes a lot of sense from his perspective. >> i say the odds of him being convicted 4-1. >> what about all of the lines he used. if you are afraid of someone why do you get out of the car? >> reasonable doubt? >> there are plenty of cases where i have gotten over plenty of reasonable doubts as a prosecutor. >> up next did the president grant a million kids amnesty because it was the right thing to do or because it makes sense politically? any idea where you're going ? wherever the wind takes me. this is so off course.

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>> we are lifting the shadow of deportation from deserving young people who were brought to this country as children. we should have passed the dream act a long time ago. it was written by members of both parties when it came up for a vote a year and a half ago republicans and congress blocked it. >> it is a violation of the law to be here illegally. they already violate add law which seems to not be have a divorce. if it's a violation of the law should be enforced it should have been enforced through out the years. >> recognize this action for what it is. blatant political pan derring by a president desperate to show us

his political base. >> before we get to the question of whether or not it was plate tant po blatant political pan derring and run around congress with the mini dream act is constitutional on the same day the president made that history announcement the sheriff joe ar ppayo arrest a 6-year-old for entering the country illegally. welcome to the program. >> did you arrest the little girl on the same day the president announced his policy because you wanted to stick it to the president? >> i don't think i did a fast and furious in reverse and arranged these 15 smugglers with the girl that is unaccompanied. nobody knows who she is where she is from into the united states of america. i enforce illegal immigration laws, geraldo, every day, so that may be a coincidence. i locked up 6 more in workplace on my birthday a wocouple weeks

ago. i don't plan these things. >> did you put handcuffs on her? >> of course not. she was there with 15 other smuggler that is we put handcuffs on. i should be thanked by that congresswoman you just had on for saving this girl. that is what they should be doing these activists that don't like me enforcing the illegal immigration laws including the president who mentioned me several months ago on the 1070 and what i am doing. >> do you think the supreme court is going to break you away on 1070 when they decide as soon as tomorrow morning? >> you know what, geraldo? i supported that 1070 but i have been doing the job anyway without the 1070. i will continue to arrest you will legal aliens that violate the state laws of this state. so nothing will change. >> what are you going to do about those who qualify under the president's policy so you

roundup say this 11-year-old or 15-year-old who is here for five years, what do you do with them when you know as soon as you hand them over to the feds they are going to let them go or give them a two-year visa assuming they are not convicted felons. >> you forgot it's 30 years old, too. >> i give you my hypothetical, what are you going to do? >> what i am going to do what i always do, if they didn't commit a state crime i turn them over to immigration authorities. it is up to them to decide what to do. >> are you going to arrest them at the back door? what are you going to do? at what point do you say the federal government dot some right there? >> i tell you what i am going -- i am going to tell you what i am going to do. if we come across them again and they are in violation of any state law, they are going to be raised and put in jail in my jails and i presume if they are turned back over to the immigration nothing will happen.

so that is a system we have right now. very con volume luted and a system that has to be resolved the congress. by the congress. >> i should call congress back. are you putting them in tents you are putting excess prisoners in tents right now in the summer? >> yeah, they just demonstrated against me last night. 3,000. after 20-years they found out i have tents. >> are they air-conditioned? >> of course they are not air-conditioned. >> got up to 120 in the summer. >> well 130 here. >> and they are in tents without air-conditioning? >> do they have air-conditioning in iraq and afghanistan for our troops fighting for the country. >> in the tents they have air-conditioning. >> i wouldn't bet on that. >> i haven't been in an unair-conditioned tent in iraq

in 10 years. don't you think it's inhumane? >> half a million people come through these tents. i put the tents up in 93 they are still there. presidential candidates visited me in the tents. if it is so bad why did he come to the tents and visit me while running for president. >> i bet they haven't visited you in june, july and august. anyway stand by. i want you to stay because you are going to go face to face with an undocumented immigrant. undocumented immigrant right here. there he is. sheriff joe you are on tv. give me a split shot. undocumented immigrant who happens to be a pulitzer prize journalist. coming back your way. [ male announcer ] this is corporate caterers, miami, florida.

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>> did you see last week's time magazine. we are americans, just not legally. the man in the front is jose antonio vargo. he's an undocumented immigrant. you don't even qualify into the new dream act? >> um four months older. i felt old. >> do you think he miss understands people in your category? >> i don't think it's even a misunderstanding. we are so used to the political partisan bickering on this issue we refuse to see each other as human beings. i think that's more -- >> you think joe specifically. >> my question is this, you were just talking about having people in tents with no air-conditioning it's 120, 130 degrees.

isn't that as geraldo asked inhumane, sir? >> are you asking me? >> yes, sir, i am. >> i have had over a half a million people come through. they survived the weather and controversy it's a good program saved millions and millions of dollars of tax payer money. i have no problems putting in ac in the tents. all different ethnic backgrounds. >> jose is, by the way, filipino american. he is not latino. staying occupied. >> thank you for saying that for reminding people of that. >> many filipino people have hispanic names. but here is my question for you. >> his president did political pan derring? >> saying the president is playing politics is like saying lebron gets on the court and plays basketball. you can interpret that anyway you want. there are 36 documented people. because of what the president

did two fridays ago 32 of them under the age of 30 biology degrees engineering degrees lawyers, doctors, graphic designers can be tax paying people in this country. >> author of a hostile takeover resisting strangle hold on america don't you want people upwardly mobile, hard-working this young man a pulitzer prize winner already? >> i want everybody to come to this country who wants to obey laws and respect american culture and traditions. i want them all here. the thing that bugs tea partyers is this arbitrariness of the rules like do we keep changing the rules from the top down? i think barack obama had an opportunity to work with marco rubio. i think there has been an opportunity to do this. this is a political football. it's a failure of politics and

failure of the ins and failure of unwillingness of both parties to set rules and implement the same rules. tea party values treat everybody exactly like everybody else under the laws of the land. >> i agree with that. one of the things i have to learn is how incredibly outdated the immigration is. look at the immigration code, right? instead of giving people advise vaus we are allowing people to be smugglers. we haven't been able to put the partisanship aside and say look. i did o'reilly a couple months ago. i got so many notes from tea partyers and minute men i agree with you let's solve this issue. we should come up with a solution. >> at least president obama said this is going to be the rule 30 and under. but it is -- >> it's at least a start. >> it's a start. >> attorney and federal attorney is arbitrarily -- he just picked

a number. >> actually that's the number from the house version of the dream act. the senate version would be 3500 but we need comprehensive immigration reform. we dealt with a million people. there are 12 million in the country. we paid taxes and -- >> are you in favor of immigration reform? would you under any circumstances back a legalization or normalization of the 11 or 12 million who are here who do not have criminal words if they paid a fine if they were otherwise qualified to stay? >> i will tell you something in summary i took an oath of office to enforce all of the laws. if the laws are in the books i am going to enforce them. if they change the laws and get rid of i won't be involved. that's the way i do it i enforce

the laws. >> are you up for election 4 or 5 times? >> 6. >> how is it looking for you? >> i doesn't know. the justice department just took me to court. great political timing. i could go on and on. but we will have the 4 million people of this county make the decision. >> sheriff thank you. lis wiehl thank you. arthur adal law thank you. hostile takeover, congratulations on the book. see you on facebook, twitter and on the radio. have a great week everybody. see you next sunday. bye-bye.

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