is it roasch. >> you don't want to go with roach. >> no, definitely. not. david asbin continues with forbes on fox. >> heart attack. thos what your medical bills may give you now that the health care man date lives that. is the forbes verdict. but is it the right verdict. i am david asbin and let's go in focus with elizabeth mcdonald morgan and rick and mike, mike, will costs go up. >> insurance premiums will sky rocket. johnathon grumer and a big advocate of the obama care and pushes of the plan pointing to has gone from saying insurance

premiums would go to 30 percent two years and states like minnesota and colorado and wisconsin, they are 19 percent more had obama care not been law. >> rick, it is not for everybody. he said that 59 percent of the public would spend 31 percent in premiums. ine people who supported people in obama care say that premiums would go up. >> i hate to shoot it down. i tell you where you got that information. you got it from an e-mail sent to the daily collar and reprinted by our colleague at forbes if you read the washington post which i will make available to you and the viewerings. he set the record straight. he never said that is what is

going to happen. the question is, will the aca play a role in keeping them lower than they would have been without the law. what we are focusing on is the provision of the law to bring down the cost of health care. all of these things bring down the cost. insurance premiums will go back up.

naturally they'll go up and covering preexisting conditions and covering retiree health insurance andine the supreme court justice john roberts who voted for obama care. i know rick unger is about to have heart pal paitation not just for my good looks. >> not. >> and jaub john roberts said significantly higher health insurance premiums. >> morkan it comes down to math. how can you insure 30 million new people and cover stuff without premiums going up? >> that brings up a good point. they'll not rise arguably if the man date is struck down. >> right on. >> and that's the point that needs to be made here.

we have seen similar things on the state. washington state in 1993 and had a similar reform in place and struck the man date and kept mandatory coverage for everyone and we saw the premiums rise and coverage is back on in 1999 massachusetts kept it and premiums have not risen much. >> oh, yeah they have. compared to median of the state. >> it is in the weeds of statistics. john, common sense dictates if you have to do more. you pay more for it, right? >> i don't need an errant e-mail to tell me what is obvious. >> affordable air act can't refuse individuals on preexisting conditions. if you refuse to pay the tax. you can later in the game get an insurance policy. we are going to raise the risk

for insurance companies and means that premiums are going to go up. this is not debatable and to deny it, it is dishonest. >> bill, get ready for death spiral pricing. and initially only the older and sicker people will buy. there is a reason for aarp association for retired people said by law. young people have to be overcharged and so that the old people can get a better deal. the young people will drop out. they will man date tax. tax. whatever it is. and they will pay the penalty. we'll have a death spiral. >> we have seen so far. we know that the full thrust of obama care doesn't come n. and why have seen health insurers having to cover more people and more individuals,

and as a result of that coverage premiums go up d. >> and all of the evidence has been. and this gruber gentlemen from mit attacked a price water house saying premiums would go up 40 percent. he's saying that and now restracting that. >> we could go back and forth on >> rick, you have to admit if you are forced to do more as a company, somehow you have to pay more for it >> you talk about rates that have gone up. >> hold on, we'll not go over old territory. >> hold on a second. if you have to do more as a business, don't you have to pay for it? >> yeah, but you are leaving out something critical in the insurance equation. that is call would balancing the pool.

there will be more old sick people. but the reason for the man date it brings younger healthy people. and it works with the equation and how the insurance works . i am a journalist and not a expert. but in california. 2006, there was old and sick people and it was not balanced by the healthier people. you know rick, who will foot the bill will be the u.s. taxpayers. >> that's really the bottom line. >> and in the end, it is the taxpayer that is going to pay for costs. >> unless rick is right. and i think rick has a secret plan. he's counting on obama getting reelect having bloomberg as secretary of health and he will outlaw cookies. >> it wasn't my plan but now

it is. >> bottom line here, when the government tries to do something that the private sector does, don't costs go up and efficiency go down? >> they go up because they are not doing it with profit in mind. they are trying to do it without a social outcome. it means if you are young and healthy, you will pay the tax rather than join the insurance pool and only join when you need it. it would supporting the sick. >> young and healthy wants to jump in. the fact that if anything that tax should be higher if you want to see that pool. >> that is the end mark on >> and the president's campaign attacking governor romney's reign at bain a game. >> the washington post revealed thoo romney's companies were pioneers was shipping u.s. jobs over seas.

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unaccounted for. back to forbes on fox. go back to fox news.com. it was reported that governor romney's own firm were pioneers in the business was outsourcing american jobs to china and india. >> pioneers. let me tell you, we don't need an outsourcing pioneer in the oval office. >> so in new political ads. governor obama said governor romney should not move in the white house because he moved jobs out of the united states rom no camp refuting that and emac you said the white house is hypocritical. >> general motors got bailout money and outsourcing. and green energy jobs.

they outsourced jobs over access. and the banks that continue to get bailout money and continued from george w. and to george w. bush. they have gone overseas. >> rick, the president can't point his finger to mitt romney when these companies received our tax dollars and thanks to president obama moving jobs out of the country. >> president obama doesn't sit on the board of directors. and mitt romney was. >> he sits on for the general taxpayer. >> and the difference is general motors saved an entire industry while mitt romney shut down factories and sent those jobs outside of the country. that's a critical difference. >> victoria, it is worse. if they send jobs over seas.

but if it is my tax dollars that ticks me off. >> if it is your tax dollars and told by the politicians and especially in obama case in the green industry that we are creating jobs and yet giving taxpayer dollars to companis and they are creating jobs, but not in the united states. there is nothing wrong on the surface but it is it taxpayer. >> how many did the autobail out save? >> and morgan. all of the bailouts were sold to us as being necessary to create more american jobs and the tax dollars went over seas. >> that's the irony of the situation. if you look at green job stimulus money. it went to the companies that received that money and it was companies from other countries then austin powers companies and a wind farm in texas and brought in japanese made

windature bines. and i do think it is it hypocritical. and it is a big issue. and companies in general are outsourcing it is less expensive to do that and in the global economy they need a present. and you need to do that. >> and seeinglet president pointing his finger at an american company for outsourcing jobs. and then it goes to taxpayer subsidies. and that is just the height of hipock chrisy to me. during mitt romney's stay at bain capitol it had. and that is a company that is not doing well. and we'll hire more people. and the company will go under completely. and what president obama did was funnel.

the taxpayer money solsolthat went bankrupt and companies like general motors are running in a big loss at a taxpayer investment and mitt romney's jobs from 188,000 a month from joe biden promised 200,000 to 500,000 a month. >> i remember that. >> bill what do you think? >> everybody deco does it right now under obama, the u.s. government is investing in or subsidizing every corporation in north america and every corporation in north america is outsourcing so maybe that is how it works. >> the worst thing is the subsidy issue upon. i don't like to use the word socialism. he is practicing that with the taxpayer moppy.

we have to play the fools game we have to stop building them over seas. >> corporate welfare is no good. we shouldn't subsidize. >> crathe. >> and i will go back to ask the question. how many jobs did the president save automobile bailout? >> victoria do youuy that? >> no, gm is not a sustainable company and ford is. they didn't take taxpayer money. and i mean, you are saying, like so made up world. how many jobs did taxpayers tanglewood resort properties incorporation up that are unsustainable. >> and i am not saying. >> with the everybody chiming in. we'll have to leave it at that. >> remember this. >> it is not in europe. since you mention north

america. it was in north america. >> first european leader blames us for their financial mess and now they are telling us to hike our taxes. carbing -- cashing in and americans get ready to hit the rod for the july 4th holiday congress shooting down and calls for a mileage tax. and the flip side is that we need it; that's next d. emily's just starting out... and on a budget.

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>> congress just voting to prevept the government from sliding awe tax on every mile you that's a good deal. not for morgan. >> we should look into the technology and rolling out a program is years away and why we should look at it the federal government subsidizes most of the highway infrastructure projects and most reports will tell you they are in dismal state of repair. and surprise, surprise. the program that federal government. continue dollars for cbo. and we should look at all this is the right answer.

you are taxing commuters and goods from flowing around the country. and these are things you don't want to tax and let happen freely without a tax. it is negative and i hate to be cynical. i don't trust it with more money. the money will be siphoned off. >> the obama administration had a fun set aside for a test project. and rick. one of the things that bothers me, they have to put a device in your car to see how many miles you travel. that is big brotherish. i don't like the sound of that. >> we should remember that everybody on the east coast uses ez passes and that tells you where you are going.

morgan's got it right. the reality is, our infrastructure is coming. come up with better ideas that is okay. and they voted to stop the administration of looking bothe program. and now we need to find solution don't just say you don't do this. >> and related to my big brother question. >> it is the government telling you how to live your life and how many miles. >> and what is going on. electric cars are more in use. what they fix here. have the government man date buying a car. and no, i am kidding. the states get to see the overspending. john are you good with it? >> the ez pass is something

you choose to do voluntarily. i don't like to prove my income or what i drive. the better answer to privatize the roads and sell the roads to private businesses. and will not charge us for use. >> that's it we have run out of time. from pot holes and bumpy ride on wall street. and strap n. and get ready for three if i'm names running for a smooth ride straight up thest are of the year. dad, i think he's dead. probably just playin' possum. sfx: possum hisses there he is. there's an easier way to save. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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