our neighbors to the north. ben is 100% spot on. >> we used to laugh at them. >> david asbin with forbes on fox. here's dave. so much for the war on poverty. the percent of poor americans on track to hit the highest level since lbj declared his war on poverty, and that's after spending $15 trillion trying to defeat it some folks on forbes are where are the congressional spending on the this war? welcome to forbes on fox. wolego with steve and rich and rick and bill. >> that is the least of

spending on the mean tested programs and now come to a trillion a year. what are we getting for it? all it does it perpetuate poverty. we need pro growth policies and not hand out from the government. >> is this money wasted? >> if you want to take on poverty address the real cas. people don't have jobbings. if we want to deal with poverty. we deal with jobbings. the only way we deal with jobs is if republicans in congress stop using it as a way to defeat barak obama. >> barak obama had four years to stop it >> he puts forward jobs bills and ther ignored. >> rich, i got to agree with one thing. isn't lack of growth one of the worst things for those in poverty? when you don't have a growing

economy, you have more poor people? >> well, sure, if we had a four percent gdp economy unemployment would be around five percent and not around eight percent as it is now. i would love to get the 15 trillion back. that is the size of the national debt. here's why we are afraid to discuss poverty. it is wrapped up in value's issue. number one creator of poverty is single motherhood and irresponsible males. unless we address that issue head on. pat monahan was the last democrat to talk about that and he's been in the grave for heres. >> it was another democrat that revised welfare.

and now the obama administration is going back to pure welfare. >> conservatives should stop thinking about cutting needy off and improve their lives and improve their incentatives. work pay requirements. steve forbes should be all over that mistake of the obama administration. and health care bill has incentatives and punishes middle class families with 100 tax rates that can be fix would. let's focus on these things. >> another democrat talked about the dependency that too much welfare engenders on the people. reduces a and dole out relief welfare in this way is

administer a narcotic and subtle destroyer of the human spir . that was franklin roose velt. >> yes, people want an opportunity and not a government life line. honesty needs to be injected in the debate. statistics are taken at face value. we want to help the poor. but what is ohm counted in the poverty rate is cash assistance and cash money that goes out of the door. food stamps is not counted and oecd, people in europe critize the united states. we need an honest debate. j.f.k. said a rising tide lifts autopsy all boats. >> my feeling, david, the reason why the war on poverty

failed it is not a war on poverty anymore. it helped people because of no fault of their own. and we are in a bad financial situation. more and more americans are dependent on government. their hole lives ther paying in to the program. >> rick, it is interesting that you are talking about increasing the growth in the country. a couple of weeks ago, you said the economy turned around and everything was growgoing great. >> i never said it. >> you chastised us for saying that the economy was not growing well. >> i said you were too negative. and you celebrate brought out the fire works and had the sparklers going. >> i will get seriousine if you aren't. i am glad you named those democrats and there are more

democrats including myself that think we need to look at how the welfare system works. we understand and i understand, too many people are taking advantage of the system. why not weed out the cheaters. >> and we did that with in the 90s and we had tremendous welfare reform and not only got people off of welfare but saved billions of dollars. >> since then, there are numurous programs, 69 means tested. and a lot of them are duplicative. and it is $940 billion a year. and got to reform. >> since then and those reforms, we are advertising food stamps on television and saying it helps your diet et cetera. >> i hear what you are saying

and the issue is, why are a country that is generous. and we do take care of our poor. the issue is, ian foster said when you spoon feed people you teach them the shape of the spoon. it is about growth. >> rich, i don't want to get too biblical. a famous guy said if you want to help a poor person you don't give them a fish but teach them how to fish. >> teach them fish marketing. americans are generous and emac is right about that. but taxpayers are tired. >> this dismal economy may be helping businesses and you will only hear how from the caship in crew.

parents in one american town taking over a public school and discovered how to get test scores up and property scores down. sorry, my liege. honestly. our sales have increased by 20%. what is this mystical device i see before me? it's an ultrabook. he signed the purchase order. with an ultrabook, everything else seems old fashioned. introducing the ultra sleek, ultra responsive ultrabook. a whole new class of computers powered by intel. mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because offers a superior level of protection, and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families is without equal.

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>> live from american news head quarters. developing an oil spill in wisconsin shutting down a major pipe line that oil to the united states. it happened near grand marsh. ther investigating. estimated 1200 barrels of oil have leaked. this comes two years to the day since same company had another oil pill. new reports of insurgent attack in afghanistan. no word on the nationalities. this brings the number of service members kill would this to at least 42.

back to forbes on fox. for all . head lines. log on to fox news.com. yes, they can. take over their kids failing public schools. parents in one california town deciding to do that this week . is this the best way to improve test scores and save tax dollars. >> it is a great why do they have to have their kids attending failing schools. this is a travesty and only good first step. >> rick unger? >> i have no objection to trigger laws. >> trigger laws meeps if enough parents agree, a majority that you can go to a

charter school. >> it is unfortunate that this is the first one in the count rye. it was a mess. first parpts voted to do it and bunch decided to bail out. there is a certain of discord. and one other thing. when my kids were in elementary school we had an experiment with the public school and the parents got dopely involve would. it worked out well it doesn't always take enforcing a law. >> i hate to say this emac, rick's experience is the exception to the rule. you can see new york and washington dc. they spent $18,000 per kid to educate that kid per year. if you had that money couldn't you do a better job. >> toachers who failed sitting in rubber rooms and earning a pay check. that is not right. this is a state and local

issue. 20 states are moving and that is an issue. it is not so easy for parents to take over the school. if they go to a charter school temperature is not as responsive to what they want. and it is not easy to run the school systems. >> john, the bottom line john, who does a better job raising your kid in school? the government or the charter school or private schools. >> certainly private scooms . schools fail when bad students raised by parents who don't care about education attend them. that's why it is encouraging. if parents are involve would that is it a good predictor of how the children do. it is for them to stay local. it is it a national and campaign issue. the federal government has no role on and this is a good

sign for california schools. >> this particular district, rich is a poor one. usually folks who can't afford private school options are taking over . it is good sign, is it not? i support the trigger laws and we'll give you the flip side of the argument. i have seen a northerp upon school tear apart a community. some like a emphasis on sports and there is a flip side of that and it can tear communities apart. >> it is more than just dollars or cents here. government speppeding 18,000 to educate the kids. i sent my dollar for 1-- 6000. and she got a better education there. >> that goes to the pain point. we don't want parents to take care of schools and we want

parents taking over the money. >> we control things? >> listen if all funding were by vouchers then the students would pick the schools and the schools could pick the students. >> parents should pick the schools. >> that is about accountability. if something is failing what can you do about it? you have that option now and why not go to another school and if a charter school doesn't work send it to another school . good thing, david on this. if government run schools know that parents do have a choice. they move out the kids, that means they are failing. >> rick unger, specifically poor folks who don't have options, shouldn't they have as many. >> they one thing we want to be careful.

we have comparison with private schools and public schools. >> parockial schools ever will i. they have to scape to come up with that and a lot of poor people spend their children to schools. >> a lot of people have $6000. you may have had it. >> noint parse -- 90 percent their parents were poor folks and that is a fact. parents who struggle can come up with $6000, but they need the option. >> in terms of government money, if you are a parent why shouldn't you get $5000 or $6000. go to a charter or a parockial school let the money go where the kid goes. >> how does that solve the problem of what we are talking about here. >> increases the standars -

standards of education. i wonder, knowing the area a bit. i wonder what choices are there for the people. >> when there is a market when there is depand -- demand entrepreneurs will meet it >> it is a misuse of resource. >> sounds like you can't do it without a voucher system in place. >> airlines are over charging for the extra fuel fees on the ticket. wait until you hear the details. you are not going to believe it. we report and let you decide. coming up d. [ bell tolls ]

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said airlines say they need to charge you most. that is fuel gouging. an

>> you may not see them on your ticket but airline fuel charges are soaring twice as much as the actul price of fuel. rick, you say it is time for the airlines to fess exup get rid of the phony account being. >> i don't mind if they charge me 10 bucks because i get on the plane first. but they called it a surcharge

when gas was up. when oil prices come down they forget to bring it they are gouging us and it ought to stop . >> i know gas prices are going back up. but the surcharges are twice as much as the fuel charges, right. >> rick only flies first class. a millionaire. >> and i think share holders of airlines want their cutches to make as much money possible and that's what airlines are doing it is not like their profit margins are big. >> i don't think the government should get involved. but be honest with the customer. if they are spending so much. don't raise the surcharges twice as much as what they are paying for fuel. >> that is true. oil prices are going to go up and they will have to raise the surchargings.

but beyond that as much as rick wants to believe businesses are charities, ther out there to make a profit. they should charge as much as possible to fill the seats. this is what capitalism is about. make profits. >> the surcharges are so submarine and look worse than phone bills and lack of transparency and they are transparent as a buck of molasses. consumers see it on line and don't see the charges. the reason airlines are not upright is what is with government pressuring them. they nood to have brand loyalty. >> airlines are making a little bit of money on the surcharges and the bag charges they cant stand. should they have the right to do that? >> it is foolish in terms was pr. they should fold it in the

price of the ticket. you don't have in a hotel 50 different surcharges. be up front. and the former head of american airlines said on the hundredth virce verse of the wright brothers he wish someone had shot it down because the airlines hasn't made one. >> tart with a billion and then start a airline. >> except when john tamney air. >> no, no. i don't want you on it >> everybody is quick to criticize you. but it is a tough business to be in. >> a recession and awe don't have a belt to hold up the trowsers. and in a depression no trowsers. since the deregulation there is two times for bankruptcies and fatal crashes.

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