we'll see you the next couple of days as well. rick: looking forward to it. jenna: we are to. rick: thanks nor joining us, everybody, "america live" starts right now. megyn: fox news alert from the campaign trail as we await the white house briefing and new questions about the big political story of the day, the announcement of president bill clinton's expanded role at the democratic national convention. welcome to "america live," everyone, i'm megyn kelly. we've got word earlier today that former president clinton has been tapped to give a prime-time address in charlotte next month, one day before president obama accepts his party's nomination for a second term. while president clinton will bring star power no question, to a convention that has been plagued with set backs, political analysts say the move poses some serious risks for mr. obama's re-election team. mr. clinton has not always been exactly in step with the administration, at times sounding critical of presented

of president obama's policies and decisions. chris stirewalt is host of power play on foxnews.com. why would they tab bill clinton for this wroel a this role as loved east is within the democratic party. he is a risky choice in terms of staying on message and he's proven that in the past. what is this about? >> you have this troubled charlotte convention. bill clinton is a more popular kind of democrat in a southern state bike north carolina, arkansas democrat, more moderate than president obama, more popular there, adds a little help to the troubled convention. more important here the president absolutely has hemorrhage support among white working class voters, among white voters without college degrees and the reason that the traditional democratic strongholds like pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin are up for grabs and basically tie races between obama and mr. romney is

that the president just stinks with these voters. bill clinton kills with these voters. they love him. for obama he needs to get the big doug out there and show he's connected to that wing of the democratic party. megyn: i look at pennsylvania the latest ras misand poll has obama 4 points up. wisconsin has obama 3 points up. michigan has 6 points up. you know, it doesn't seem like even if he's struggling with that one particular voting group he, you know, has this extremely tight margin in these states. he's leading, he's leading ro mitt romney by a healthy margin. >> how about this. being up six points in michigan would be like george w. bush having only been up 6 points in alabama over john kerry in 2004. that is too close. if you're an incumbent president and democrat you need to be killing in michigan, it needs to be a total wipe out for you. you should not have to ror

reabout spending resources there. in the i70 and north corridor going out from pennsylvania all the way out to iowa up into wisconsin, michigan, those states he's got big problems. democrats had huge problems there in 2010 and president obama has the worst numbers among white working class voters who are maybe as much as 40% of the election threa electorate since walter mondale. megyn: if bill clinton were running they'd say, there i my guy. i love bill clinton, the boy from hope. if they don't connect with president obama is bill clinton getting up there andt me, he's o it? >> i tell you what he's going to say. he's pretty good, he's not as good as i was, but he's pretty good, he's pretty good. megyn: there is risk of that with president clinton, there is very real risk of that. >> that's what he does. you remember in the springtime whether they sal lead forth with presiden president clinton to

get wall street to open up the wallets after the president had started the attacks on bain capital and mitt romney and clinton went to vouch for him with the rich votes in new york. he was trying to help him with the rich white voters that the president has always struggled w. east was doing it he contin contradicted, insulted president obama and praised mitt romney in the span of a week. megyn: we have that keyed up. >> i don't believe we should be raising taxes or cutting spending either one until we get this economy off the ground. there is no question in terms of getting up and going to the office and, you know, basically perform the essential function -gs of the office a man who has been governor and had a sterling business career crosses the qualification threshold. >> i care about the long-term debt of the country a lot. remember me i'm the only guy that gave you four surplus bulge

jets out of the eight i set. [applause] megyn: you know, i guess the speech they are expecting something different at the convention, maybe someone gets to vet it from the president's team? >> sure they will. but the danger with buba as he is affectionately known he will be doing a lot of press as he rolls up to that convention. he can't recircumstances he'll be talking and having these oops moments. remember how bad it got in south carolina, accusations of racism flying back and forth. the obama campaign was rough, rough, rough on hillary clinton, you remember, shame on you barack obama. well there is a lot of that still rattling around inside the democratic party and when you look at all the clinton democrats who aren't going to that convention and all the clinton democrats who have very publicly distanced themselves from obama you know that that split is still real. megyn: good to have you back, sir. >> good to be back. megyn: for more political coverage any time log onto foxnews.com, click on the

politics tab, there you will find tomorrow pre hence i have coverage of president obama, president clinton and everything you need to know about politics and the day. another fox news alert now, new questions about a university of colorado psychiatrist after a judge just wraps up the second court appearance of the shooting suspect in this rampage at a denver area movie theater. now we only have sketches of james holmes the 24 kraoerld suspect becaus24-year-old suspect because the court banned cameras after the defendant objected to them. he has been charged with 116 counts of attempted murder and murder. witnesses say holmes appeared just as dazed, actually no we heard different reports on this. this script says he appeared just as dazed as he did the first time. earlier i read from our fox news producer he appeared less dazed, less of the eye wandering and so on we saw the first time around. he's been sitting at counsel

table, and tkae actually heard the charges against him. the former university of colorado student had apparently been under the care of a psychiatrist, and here is a picture of that doctor, lynne fenton happens to be a member of the university of colorado's threat assessment team. they are the ones in the wake of tragedies like at virginia tech assess the threat on campus and she counselors students and specializes in schizophrenia, and she was seeing james holmes as her patient. coming up we'll have a live report from the courtroom about exactly what did go on in front of that judge today, and then we will have an in-depth look at what role this doctor and her relationship to mr. holmes could play now legal galley in thi legally in this case. new information this hour on the investigation into the course source of critical national intelligence leaks. you may remember vital details

about foiled terror plots and other counter terror operations have been leaked to certain media outlets in certain months. new revelations from the head of the house intelligence committee. catherine herridge live with more in washington. >> thank you, good afternoon. the head of the house intelligence committee telling fox today that he believes leaks continue, suggest thaeupbg mr. obama has not done enough to shot them down. >> we've seen more leaks, absolutely. and part of that is, again, this is an opportunity for the president to be bold, to take a stand, to step up and say that, my administration will cooperate fully, and that my staff, my staff should not and will not participate in a coordinated or uncoordinated leaking of classified information for any reason. >> reporter: adding to the comments of the head of the senate intelligence committee democrat dianne feinstein last week the human intelligence asse to s had been compromised congressman rogers says the

damage is far reaching. the intelligence committee is investigating the leak about a new underwear bomb similar to this one use ned a plot in yemen in 2009. they say cooperation from the obama administration has been lacking. >> i don't feel comfortable today that this administration has made every person available when the investigator needs to talk to them, or all of the records that they need to provide in a very timely way. so i'm not comfortable yet. >> reporter: based on the investigation by his committee members congressman rogers joins other republicans believing that classified information came from a small group of people who had access to the white house. >> it is very clear that somebody who had access to the white house situation room, had very senior covert action classified material was responsible for some of these leaks. that is not a big group of people. >> i believe this has to have come from the highest levels the obama administration, certainly

from within the white house, and most likely from within the national security council. >> reporter: the white house chief of staff said earlier this month that they would fully cooperate and we may learn more at the briefing this hour, megyn. megyn: thank you. coming up in just a bit, we turned down canada when they asked us to the prom and now they are going with china new questions today about the whic wisdom of turning down this oil pipeline from canada to the gulf of mexico as china now comes close to closing a multibillion dollars oil deal with our neighbors to the north. lou dobbs is here next on what this means for us and the future of our energy security right here at home. and the outrage is growing over these glaring lee empty seats at the olympic games. what is up with this? an update on the investigation, claims of scalpers in london and are why some owe limb pea answer, their families may be among the victims of this problem. and a disturbing report suggests

america's immigration situation is looking more like the wild west. we'll speak with one top border enforcer, the head of one of the biggest unions in this country, a border enforcement agent who says illegal immigrants are already taking advantage of the president's edict on young illegal immigrants and they are taking it way beyond, way beyond what the president authorized. >> since president obama took office he has promised that we would have an amnesty. he has not been able to deliver on their promise so he took it upon himself and implemented his own version of the d.r.e.a.m. act only he calls it prosecutorial discretion. [ male announcer ] hey, isn't that the girl who tore out your still beating heart? [ bowling pins ] ok, how's this gonna play? mi amore. [ chicken clucking ] [ male announcer ] bit needy, g. ok don't sweat it. just do your thing. hey! hey! [ male announcer ] definitely a little bit epic. stride. hey! hey! sometimes life can be well, a little uncomfortable. but when it's hard or hurts to go to the bathroom,

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you do what you do... because it matters. at hp we don't just believe in the power of technology. we believe in the power of people when technology works for you. to dream. to create. to work. if you're going to do something. make it matter. megyn: a not so amusing amusement park ride. take a look, 12 people on the new superman roller coaster at a six flags tphaoerb san francisco stuck 150 feet in the air. that is 15 stories. the fire department used a crane to get them bottles of water,

hopefully spf as well because they were up there for two hours. eventually a mechanic got the ride started again, backwards but at least it was moving and luckily they were stuck in the up right position as opposed to upside down. stop laughing lou dobbs. no word on what caused the ride to stall, but that's not good. not so super after all. new questions about the wisdom of turning down an oil pipeline that would have gone from canada down to the gulf of mexico, as china now comes close to closing a multibillion-dollar oil deal with our neighbors to the north. lou dobbs is the host of lou dobbs tonight on the fox business channel and a syndicated radio show host. the deal is canada asked us to the prom, we said no. then they went out and found a different date. and canned today and china are going to the prom and we have to sit there wondering was this a good idea? should we have turned them down? >> the democrats led my chuck

shaoeurpl, senator schumer of new york who was adamantly opposed to the keytone pipeline wants to tell canada how to run its policy and energy affairs to the point he wants the united states to intervene in sovereign issues including energy for the sovereign state of can tk and the people's republic of china. megyn megyn: explain to the folks what they are doing. >> they are buying one of the best production companies by the name of nexson, a canadian company. they produce about a quarter of a million barrels of oil a day, a substantial contribution considering that we bring in just about 40% of our oil is imported. it's a very important relationship. one ever the chinese-owned oil companies will have a direct investment, that trillion-plus

money sloshing around in the people's republic of china that came from us will be going into a direct investment that will give them ownership of resources. megyn: we are partnering with a canadian oil company, we americans, we are doing it in a roundabout way, through china. >> we are not partnering, we are doing it out of the goodness of our heart. megyn: we get no benefit of it. the canadian prime minister steven harper they say is hailing china as a new market for canadian energy particularly from the oil fans and that this decision that he made to partner with china on this appears to be based in part on the nail yo failure of the keystone oil pipeline to again approval here in the united states. >> we have some of the biggest fools in the country setting public policy. they stopped the keystone pipeline that would have moved just under a million barrels of oil a day from canada, and western canada, primarily, down to the gulf coast and that oil

would have been available for american consumption, export. megyn: it was going to create tens of thousands of jobs. >> it would create i think conservativ conservatively 20,000 jobs. that's a big deal when you have 25 million people out of work. megyn: we've been saying through all administrations, republican and democratic that we want to get ourselves off of our dependent on foreign oil, meanings the foreign oil from countries that hate us, not so much canada. >> so far to review the bidding the obama administration has insulted our partners, allies and neighbors, the canadians to the north by telling them to go to hell with their pipeline. second -- and offering no quid pro quo of any sort, and now going forward and saying that even though we are not involved in your deal we want to tell you how to handle your exports of the natural resources we declined to take. megyn: because chuck schumer is trying to raise an objection to this deal that china and canada are striking?

>> yeah, it won't be in the national interest. he actually wants it reviewed by the u.s. committee on foreign investments, which has absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever in the canadian deal. what the canadians have apparently decided, megyn is that rather than do business with the united states on this instance, where we would have to borrow still more money from china they will go directly to the market in china where they can pay with good hard choice. megyn: it's like the guy who asks you to the dance and you say no and he ends upcoming to the prom with someone attractive and good looking and you end up looking at them and say, man, why didn't i say yes to them. they as asked us to the dance,s reason we said know according to our government is we were worried about massive pollution in some major american states that it was going to pollute this key water aquifer. >> in nebraska. megyn: and that clean drinking

water was more important to us than creating these jobs at least over the short haul while they did more evaluation. >> the in a brass cans, canadians agreed to circumvent any hazard to natural resource necessary this country laying out of any kind of new route for that pipeline that the environmental protection agency would want. this administration has declared war on fossil fuels, is absolutely committed to it and they are wasting $300 billion a year, that money is just flying out the door and going to t middle east. the madness of what this administration is doing in energy policy, if you can call it a policy, is seemingly unending. but then it occurs. there is an election coming up. megyn: it's interesting. the guy shows up with another girl at the dance and the guy he cleans up really well, he looks really good in his suit, the girl turns out to be really attractive. you think you're going to get another date and you wind up sitting there by yourself, feeling really bad about your

skin and your teenage -- >> what? i don't know if i'm qualified. megyn: too much? >> i just feel somehow inadequate to the issue because i can't offer you any counsel at all on that. megyn: you always made the correct decision on your dates, lou i can tell. >> not all, the majority. the last one any way, i can guarantee. megyn: my parents used to say she is going to be with us for a longtime. thanks for that, mom. coming up, growing outrage today out of london after some family members are unable to purchase tickets to watch their own loved ones compete at the olympics, even though take a look inside. the cameras show row after row of empty seats, and wait until you hear why. plus, ugly accusations are flying again over a decision by the obama white house three years ago that sent back this famous bust of winstonrchill that had been on loan to us from the u.k. when charles krauthammer

mentioned the diplomatic dustup last week he was accused by the white house of making up the story. he was called ridiculous. what is the white house saying now that charles has been proven right? [ female announcer ] research suggests the health of our cells plays a key role

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megyn: if you've been watching the olympic games in london have you noticed anything unusual? like this sight right here. all the empty seats. there seem to be a huge demand for tickets when they were made available through a public ballot in the spring, but the venues have been far from full, and this is become ago controversy now for the organizers and the families of some athletes. trace gallagher has more from our west coast newsroom. trace. >> reporter: the television audience is enormous but the events themselves are nowhere near capacity. all told there are some

8 million tickets available for these games, now they are believing that maybe a million or more of those tickets will go unused. here is how it works. 25% of the tickets are set aside for corporate sponsors, olympic committee members, even families of the athletes. a lot of the families say they are not getting their allotted tickets, and when they try to buy them they are being told they are not available, and yet look at all the seats there that are empty. 75% of the public is supposed to get -- the tickets are supposed to go to the public. the reason many are not getting them is because they were tkpwoblgobble gobbled up by the olympic agencies. >> we need every seat filled. we owe it to the team and british sports fans and the country to make sure that they get the opportunity to come on this unique occasion at the olympic games. >> reporter: yeah it's a mess. and now the olympic committee is

actually buying up tickets, kind of reclaiming them putting them back online so the general public can buy them at the rate either before the event or the day of the event. some people are just walking up and getting in, listen. >> we watched a lot of the news last night about them reporting about the seats. they talked about trying to make it better. we actually went to the box office to see if they were reselling any. they said you can get online now and do it. we were bummed out to see empty seats too, because it would be nice to have people there. >> reporter: yeah, a lot of people are bummed out. they are even pulling, military members who were securing games, kind of pulling them in to help fill the seats, giving them free tickets in their off time. the problem by the way is not unique, they had ticket problems in beijing as well as back in athens in 2004, again the families, some of them are canceling the trips to go from like australia to london because they are not being guaranteed they can get the tickets to get in when there are so many empty seats out there, megyn. the whole thing is a mess.

megyn: what a bummer. trace, thank you. >> reporter: okay. megyn: 99 days to go until the presidential election, and new questions today about the president's re-election campaign. if you check out the website for the democratic national committee you see a whole lot of attacks on governor mitt romney but very little about president obama's own accomplishments. up next we'll have a fair & balanced debate on what that suggests and -- james holmes facing more than a hundred charges in court today. 24 countie24 counts of murder, two for each victim. the formal charges as they were formally presented. it wrapped up that hearing did last hour in colorado. what exactly was his demeanor today? did he look like this from his first appearance last week? we are live with the latest. and outrage over the american flag that adorns this childrens train ride at a mall in oregon. why the mall employee who put the flag on the train was told to get it off of there or get

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megyn: we are tracking a developing story as police in two states investigate a series of bomb threats that may be connected. threats were called into 10 different walmart steers this weekend. each of them evacuated and swept for explosives but turned up nothing. 8 of them in missouri and two in kansas *, each received similar threats by phone. police have connected one phone number to these calls and they are investigating. 99 days to go until election day and there are questions about the president's reelection strategy. if you check the dnc web site you will find a collection of videos attacking governor romney. but there are far fewer focusing on the president's own accomplishments. now there are questions about

why we aren't seeing more about the president's accomplishments. dick, let me start with you. even though folks on the right dislike a lot of the president's agenda, he did get the stimulus pass, he did stem the tide from the job losses even though it hasn't been stellar growth. we are not shedding $750,000 in jobs a month and he did get healthcare passed so why is that being touted oned dnc web site? >> it's timing. this is july and august when you attempt to define your opponent. mitt romney has a history of signing a bill bang assault weapons. he has been pro-choice. he has done all kinds of things that are inconsistent with what he's saying today.

this is the time to remind people he will say whatever he needs to say to get elected ands has no core beliefs. he was for the mandate while he was governor of massachusetts, and now he's not for the mandate. megyn: let me -- before i go to brad, let me ask you this, dick. you believe mitt romney will say anything to be elected. do you believe the same about president obama? he has had his own so-called evolution. >> that's an evolution. on gun crawl don't sign an assault weapons ban and say your for gun control then six years later say everybody ought to be able to have a machine gun. so that's the position he has taken. this isn't evolution, this is bipolar. you would think he could afford the medication to control this. megyn: oh, boy. president obama was personally for gay marriage, then he was against gay marriage then he

wound up being for gay marriage again. my point, brad, are we at the point where these politicians will say anything to get elected. they all go negative. we in the media focus in on these small mundane issues because it's news of the day, and now we have a process that's utterly corrupted from the issues and the fact that 26 million mayor cans are under employed or unemployed about who offended the british more. >> it wasn't for bad news obama would make no news at all. you look at the figures on growth, 1.5%. in the pest possiblelight, 8.3 -- the best possiblelight. 8.3% unemployment. if you have nothing good to say, say bad things about your opponent. the president has a record and

he knows the george bush trick he used in 2008 is not working in 2012. most americans believe -- 70% of americans believe not only is america heading down the wrong track but they are not better off than they were four years ago. there is not a heck of a lot of good news for this president to trumpet. if he did he wouldn't have knocked joe biden from the convention and bringing in bill clinton. resurrecting bill clinton to save your own hide isn'tn't say a lot about d doesn't say a lot about accountability. megyn: they say because the economy is struggling, 1.5% growth and 8% unemployment, if we got the stimulus passed at beginning of the president's term they said we would be less than 5.5% you can employment. they said with or without their stimulus plan we would be down

in the 5s. now we are at 8.2%. and president obama told matt lauer shortly after his presidency began as follows. listen. >> i will be held accountable. i have got four years. a year from now i think people are going to see that we are starting to make some progress. but there is still going to be some pain out there. if i don't have this done in three years, then it's going to be a one-term proposition. >> i think you say from time to time barack obama has been wrong. he's wrong about that. he will be a two-term president. nobody appreciated how bad situation was. with europe collapsing, no one could have predicted that. a good president reacts to what happens today and what he believes is going to happen tomorrow. but what's happening today. we were shedding 700,000 jobs a

month when he took office. we are now adding jobs and certainly at an anemic rate. but he brought the patient back from near death and he is together best he can to get the patient back on his feet. but every time we turn around we have people like mitt romney who say you shouldn't even have health insurance. the cbo came out last week, the congressional budget office, and said that obama-care will cut the deficit. i didn't see anybody touting that. it will cut the deficit. it's not going to be something that busts the budget. megyn: they talked about how it will raise costs for low-income folks. the question is whether the president should be making the argument that dick is making were more forcefully on the dnc webpage by saying it is all about the economy. it is not about mitt romney and his white horse.

it's about the economy and how we'll get these 26 million americans out of the ditch they are now in. i encountered a world crisis in europe and so on and so forth. here is my specific plan for getting us out of this, and whether mitt romney should be much more clear in doing the same. >> barack obama if he had a plan he would vaints. but the problem is he doesn't have a plan. if this election is about the economy this president fails. this president was dealt a bad hand, there is no question about it. but if if he predicted where we would be in 2012 when he ran in 2008 he wouldn't have been elected period. the fact of the matter is as a candidate he had all the answers. as you point out he's a reactionary president. he reacts to things. that's not what president's do. presidents are supposed to be visionaries and leaders. not not just supposed to react to crisis.

they are supposed to avoid crisis. >> his policies are much better oriented to growth in the marketplace than a president who puts all his chicks down on the government. megyn: thank you both. just ahead. if you are going to call somebody a liar it helps to have the truth on your side. the white house accused charles krauthammer about completely making up a story about president obama and this bust of winston churchill that was lent to the white house. we'll show you now what's happening now that charles has been proven right. the president of the national border patrol union says it's looking like the wild west on the southern border. he says illegal immigrants are taking advantage of the president's edict on deferred deportation for some illegal immigrants. he's with us to defend that charge. >> under no circumstances should

we reward anyone who violates the laws of this country. june 15, 2012, president obama elected to ignore those voices and sidestep congress by announcing we were to implement cross cuer toial discretion.

megyn: new fallout about a controversial immigration policy launched by the obama administration. leaders of the nation's top border patrol union claims illegal immigrants are exploiting the change put into place by president obama and they say border enforcement is becoming almost nonexistent. he represents 17,000 folks. he was part of this announcement. george, welcome. >> thank you for having me here, megyn. megyn: the claims are pretty shock when you look at what you and another gentleman who was

with you. chris crane, the president of the immigration enforcement council. you said the discretion that's -- the prosecutorial discretion is based solely on an individual's claims. the quote from chris crane are our orders are if an alien said they went to high school, then let them go. our officers are been told there is no burden for the alien to prove anything. is that true? >> according to chris crane and i spoke with him at length about this, it is true. we have yet to receive any written guidelines or instructions on how to deal with this at this point. megyn: is it your experience that anybody that's your superior or overseeing our border patrol agents has give up an order if an illegal immigrant suspected says i'm in high school or i'm a young illegal

immigrant who might qualify for deferred deportation, you won't arrest them. >> we have to bring them into the station and turn them over to i.c.e. before we get further instructions. megyn: wasn't that the what it was before president obama's announcement before? >> no, if they were in this country illegally, we would take them in, run a records check and based on that make a determination how we were going to handle that person. megyn: what's new, exactly, the handing them over to i.c.e. part? >> the fact at the end of the day they are going to be receiving a free pass if they make this allegation, if they fall under the guide lines of this prosecutorial discretion. megyn: that's what i want to get at. at the press conference it sounds like -- president obama said look, i'm going to grant deferred deportation to illegal

immigrants brought here by their parents when they were under 16 under certain circumstances. they have to apply, we'll look at it and if they call fight we'll give them a two-year work permit. you guys were saying the other day those decisions are being made upon the point of arrest. we are being told when you meet the illegal immigrant if he says i'm in high school, let them go. that was a quote from chris crane. our orders are if an alien says they went to high school, let them go. that different. >> correct. those are the instructions that chris and the employees of i.c.e. have received. we have yet to receive any type of instructions yet. megyn: is it that you object to president obama's edict? he did this himself and administrated it through the department of homeland security or is it you say it has gone beyond the presidential directive? >> no, i think the whole point

behind this is the president took it upon himself to grant a whole class of individuals a free pass to this country. megyn: he through i.c.e. has responded by saying that the number of illegal immigrants who have been deported under his administration is at record levels. this is from i.c.e. they said in 2011, 291,000 were deported. in 2011, it was 396,000. they say that's a record and their effort to prioritize the deportation of the only the worst criminals among the illegal immigrants makes sense. your thoughts. >> i can't speak for i.c.e. or their management. would i like to look at the numbers they are look at. this agency in the past has been very creative in how they report numbers. megyn: what do you believe is happening along the border and what is your first-hand

experience? >> what's happening is we are in a more southern position, we are closer to the fence line, we are trying to shut down certain corridors. but in the process that allows other areas to be wide open. megyn: what do you think you need to solve that. >> unless you can see an dwriewrgt left and right the border letter never be sealed. we need sanctions. majority of the folks coming over will look for. megyn: thank you, sir. all the best. coming up, new information confirms that a psychiatrist at the university of colorado was indeed treating the shooting suspect james holmes at the time of the movie massacre in aurora. holmes attempted to warn the doctor at least once before he killed 12 people. could the university of colorado be on the hook for failing to do more? rasmussen reports the numbers

have never been this bad. just 14% of americans believe today's children will be better off than their parents. what is killing our hope for the future and can this be turned around? [ buzz ] off to work! did you know honey nut cheerios is america's favorite cereal? oh, you're good! hey, did you know that honey nut cheerios is... oh you too! ooh, hey america's favorite cereais... honey nut cheerios ok then off to iceland! the calcium they take because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. that's why my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption. or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

megyn: breaking news out much colorado. james holmes is formally charged with 142 counts of murder and attempted murder. alicia? >> reporter: james holmes is facing 116 counts of attempted murder for the 58 people who were injured who were also inside the theater the night of the shooting. the district attorney carol

chambers had the option of filing additional attempted murder charges for all of the people who live in his apartment building where police say holmes rigged his place with explosives. he was charged with one felony explosives charge. he sat with his defense team as the charges were read. holmes was charged twice for each victim. >> the prosecutor has chargeddal earn tough theories of first degree murder. after deliberation and extreme indifference to human life. either it will result in a first degree murder conviction he can't be sentenced on both theories. they will merge for purposes of sentencing. >> reporter: holmes can be convicted on 24 counts of murder but on sentences on 12 if he's found guilty.

legal experts here say that is the expectation given chambers' history and reputation. by that decision may not come for a couple of weeks. even without the death penalty. if holmes is found guilty because of the charges he's facing and given the law in colorado, he must serve consecutively, meaning thousands of years in prison. megyn: we know holmes was under the care of a psychiatrist at the university of colorado. so what did dr. lynn fenton know about the former ph.d student and could the university be in trouble for failing to do more. "kelly's court" takes up that case. remember these scenes from the dnc convention in 1968? there are questions about a department of homeland security order for riot gear ahead of the republican and democratic national conventions. we'll show what you we learned right after this break.

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megyn: we learn more about homeland security ordering riot gear, anticipating riots and political protests at this year's political conventions. the feds are not taking any chances when the republicans hold their convention in tampa and the democrats in charlotte. we are being told they are gearing up for potential unrest at the presidential inauguration. trace gallagher is investigating whether this is standard procedure. >> reporter: the feds aren't just looking to buy more riot gear, they are looking to buy more riot gear right now. they want this stuff fast

tracked. they gave it suppliers one day to give their bids. take a look at the list here. this is what they are doing. 150 sets of riot gear. we are talking about riot helmets, upper body, forearm protectors, gloves. authorities are not giving specific numbers, but they are expecting massive numbers of demonstrators. dhs is not expecting violence, they are clearly preparing for significant domestic unrest, that's a quote, which means riots. the gear will be worn by the officers protecting the property and the buildings around the conventions. they have set up free speech zones in tampa and charlotte to help contain demonstrators to certain areas. but for those of us who have covered these conventions before, you know there are a lot of people that break the rules

when they attend these conventions and homeland security believes the tensions in florida and north carolina will be drum tight. we contacted the department of homeland security for a statement if this is standard operating procedure. we know they did buy some in 2008. they still have not gotten back to us. when they do, we'll let you know. megyn: we mentioned how the memories linger from 1968 in chicago. at the height of the divisions over the vietnam war. one of the ugliest displays of violence. hundreds were arrested and hurt, including police officers. the violence and unrest playing out for the whole world to see. many political observers believe these scenes helped elect president nixon as president. in charlotte the feds giving both cities $50 million to

provide secure. tampa okaying $25 million to hire police officers from around the state to help with crowd control during the republican convention. charlotte's police department getting $5 million to help cover the cost of policing the democratic convention. we are almost in august. it's about to get underway, folks. new developments in a dust-up between the white house and fox news contributor and contributor charles krauthammer over a bust of winston churchill. this got started with a blog post from white house communications director who blasted krauthammer for saying president obama started his presidency by return together british embassy the bust of winston churchill that:graced the oval office.

he was not happy. he says the bust is still in the white house outside the treaty room. it turches out he was wrong. the bust was returned to the britd -- to the brits by president obama. the bust to which pfeiffer is referring is a different bust. here is a picture of david cameron and president obama with that bust in 2010. he added an update acknowledging that one bust had been returned by was providing additional information and continued to go after krauthammer and others. krauthammer is demanding an apology. but so far crickets. niles, thank you for going here. this is a little confusing.

it turns out some twist in a big mystery. there are two busts. but pfeiffer was wrong, kraut hammer was right. >> i think charles krauthammer has been 100% vindicated and the white house has been left with egg on its face. dan pfeiffer should be issuing a full unequivocal apology to in krauthammer. he was wrong here. as brit human tweeted yesterday, this is amateur hour at the white house. what you have here is a white house that's constantly trying to bury the fact that it has a very strong anti-british record. not only returning the bust of winston churchill, but the issue of the fall cano -- over the falklands. so this is yet another example of the highly amateurish white

house that has a consistent record of undercutting the anglo-american special relationship. megyn: i want to play with charles krauthammer said. >> he should have honorably said we made a mistake. there was an old bust in the white house that had been around for 50 years, we got them confused. that would have been understandable, ends of story. that would have been honorable, but you doesn't expect that out of this communications office in the white house. megyn: they came out and said we are trying to clarify this because the idea put forward by charles krauthammer and others that president obama returned the churchill bust or refused to display it because of an i -- because of an an tip think of the brits.

they are doubling down on the notion that president obama returned it to the brits. did he have the choice to keep it, niles? >> absolutely. it's a clear-cut case of the white house squirming when they should be issuing a full outright apology. president obama won't give -- the bust had been loaned to george w. bush in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. the white house under president obama chose to return the bust. this sent a firm signal to the british that the special relationship simply isn't important for the obama administration and as such this juan an insulting move by the obama white house which sparked outrage in britain. churchill is greatly revered on both sides of the atlantic. megyn: it sounds like the white

house is trying to explain this whole thing by doubling down on this explanation. let's listen to what they said. >> the reason that we waited on friday is there is a myth floating in some of the darker corners of the internet that suggests that upon taking office the president went out mucho -- out of his way to snub the british people by prematurely returning the bust of winston churchill that occupied a prominent place in the oval office under the previous president. that's not true. as the white house cure -- curator explained, the bust was loaned to president bush by the british government. as is customary, at the conclusion of president bush's term and before president obama

entered the oval office the bust was returned to the british embassy. >> i think that pretty ridiculous. he's talking about the darkest corners of the internet. this is a story widely reported by the british press by the daily telegraph, the daily mail. is he referring to the british press as the darkest corner of the internet? that's insulting stuff from the white house. a conscious decision was made by the obama administration to return the bust of winston churchill within weeks of obama taking office. that's a huge snub. that's very insulting to the british people. megyn: is there any question president obama was given the opportunity to keep the bust and then refused? >> i think there is no debate over this at all, frankly. the obama administration had the opportunity to extend that loan, they chose not to do so.

this is widely reported in the british newspapers at the time. and this was a hugely insensitive move at a time when britain had and still has 10,000 troops on the battlefield of afghanistan fighting alongside u.s. allies. a deeply insensitive, insulting move against america's closest friend and ally. megyn: we'll see what the next iteration of this is. niles, thank you. it's one of america's greatest strengths. the belief that the next generation will have it better than the current generation does. but a new poll says the days of sunny optimism on that front may be over. up next, new reaction on governor romney getting for his visit to israel and the standing ovation he got for a stern warning to iran. ambassador john bolton on what this means for the presidential candidate back at home.

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megyn: governor romney is in poland on the third and final leg of his international tour. he got positive reviews in israel for his trip there. they were mobbed by well wishers at the jerusalem west wall and

the governor getting a standing ovation for his clear warning to iran. listen here. >> make no mistake. the ayatollahs in tehran are testing our moral defenses. they want to know who will object and who will look at other way. my message to the people of israel and the leaders of iran is one and the same. we'll not look away. nor will my country ever look away. we have a some up duty and moral imperative to deny iran's leaders a means to follow through on their malevolent intentions. megyn: ambassador john bolton is a former ambassador to the united nations and a fox news contributor. he seemed to please our friends in israel and tick off our friends in london. how is he doing so far on his international trip? >> i think it's been a successful trip. the issue about the olympics in london was a tempest in a tea

cup. i think this meetings and speech this rail demonstrated the stark contrast between the romney view of israel's role as an important american ally and the obama administration view which is israel is a large source of the problems in the middle east. i think he accomplished that very clearly. megyn: why were romney's comments on the olympics a tempest in a teapot. it's your best friend and your breast friend says do you look fat in this? k a little fat. it's not that it's not true, it's impolite to your friend. >> he made the error of telling the truth. the criticism is like the old saying the dogs bark and the caravan moves on. megyn: we were talking about

whether president obama really did return this bust. mitt romney makes an arguable gaffe about our friends in great britain and all the white house has to do is sit back and enjoy it. but instead they get in a fight with charles krauthammer over whether president obama returned a bust. now it looks like you don't like great britain either. >> i think that president obama overall simply doesn't put the same stress on our alliance structures around the world because he's comfortable watching those structures fall into decline. i think what governor romney said is it's important to revive these structures because of the war on terrorism and the threat of proliferation of the weapons of mass destruction. so i think there is a difference. i think it was symbolized about it return of the bust of winston churchill. if the people in the white house

don't have good enough memories to remember it. megyn: they were indignant. they said it was 100% false. with respect to the remarks governor romney head in israel. he did not get political. by said the threat of a nuclear armed iran has only become worse the past i five years. he talked about how he would use any and all measures to stop iran from its nuclear plans. what could we do short of military action? >> i don't think he's going to get into that and it's not wise for him to do that. the obama administration has two themes. one there is no foreign policy issue because he is the foreign policy president of all times. second which the white house has been putting out this past week is fundamentally on iran and anything else is there is no difference between the obama and

romney policies which seems to be 2009 consistent lines. but i think the key point was made by prime minister netanyahu. after all these years of diplomacy and sanctions by the obama and bush administrations have had not one iota of impact on iran's nuclear weapons program. that's the key point. as we draw closer to iran having that nuclear weapons capability, some shard decisions have to be made. megyn: we are almost in august and there are still questions about what israel is going to do. is it considering bombing iran's nuclear facilities as we heard earlier this year center in it might be in the spring or summer. in the wake of all that, there is a report out of jerusalem from the associated press citing an israeli newspaper that the obama administration. tom donilon has met with the israeli prime minister and

briefed him on how we the united states would attack iran. our military plan, should diplomacy and sanctions fail to persuade iran to abandon its nuclear program. is that possible that we would have tom donilon sit down with netanyahu and show him our plans for bombing iran? >> i would be doubtful that that would happen. our military god bless them have plans for just about everything but war with great britain it's important that we do have a contingency plan. if donilon had that conversation, it's part of the effort to persuade israel not to act. if you were going to bet, they are not going to wait for the iranian weapons capability to become a reality. megyn: thank you, sir. rasmussen reports says the numbers have never bed this bad.

a new poll shows 14% of americans believe today's children will be better off than their parents. just 14% think that's true. just ahead. why? what is changing our hopes for the future and can we turn it around? a veteran puts little american flags on the kiddy train he manages at the mall. then he gets threatened with losing his job. we'll jess gait right after this break. >> we should be prowferred it and not be forced to take it off. it's a ride for the kids.

megyn: the next stop for a veteran who manages a kiddy

train in a mall may be the unemployment line. reason snow's using an american flag to decorate the train he drives. the riders like it but the mall wants him to take it down, calling old glory an unapproved visual. trace gallagher has more from our west coast newsroom. >> reporter: his name is thomas phelps. he runs that kiddy strain outside of portland, oregon. he puts the train up there as a tribute to himself and other veterans, firefighters and police officers who mutt -- who put their lives on the life every day. but he got a letter from mall management saying you have to take the flag down because it's against mall policy. they call it "unapproved visuals." he reflect any told the mall, i'm not doing it.

i'm not taking it down. listen. >> why would anybody thought want to see our flag displayed? i may be fired or thrown out of the malibu i'm not taking it down. i hope people rally around this. people should stop and say it's wrong. >> reporter: this was on the local news and all the stations and people were more the most part outrages including people at mall like this woman. listen. >> it's the united states, that's our flag. we should be proud of it and not be forced to take it off the ride for the kids. >> reporter: sometimes when you buck authority you end up on the winning side. the mall has now released this statement and i'm quoting here. we can see how many were offended. it was never the intent to offend or show any disrespect. the u.s. flag will remain displayed at the kiddy train and

in other locations within the mall. thomas phelps fought, thomas phelps won, the flag remains and the kids live happily ever after. new information confirmed today that a psychiatrist at the university of colorado was indeed treating shooting suspect james holmes at the time of the movie mass customer aurora. holmes attempted to warn the doctor we are told at least once before he killed 12 people. could the university be on the hook for failing to do more? 14% of americans believe their children will be better off than their parents. what is dimming our hope for the future and can it be turned around? right after this break. [♪] [ male announcer ] this is rudy.

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megyn: fox news alert, deadly violence spiraling out of control in syria. we are getting new reports that the convoy carrying the head of the u.n. observer mission in syria was attacked over the weekend and that the heavy armor on the vehicles were the only reason that the u.n. team escaped injuries.

these humanitarian groups have been pulling a lot of their folks out of syria because the battle seems to be coming to a head. some remain in that country as the fighting continues raging in syria's largest city of aleppo. government troops using helicopter gunships on neighborhoods seized by rebel forces, and the u.n. now reports that some 200,000 refugees are streaming out of the area. behind all of these reports, the human death toll as families like this little girl's lose their homes, their livelihoods, and many have lost their lives, so many, in the crackdown that we've continued to watch for 17 months. a new poll tears at the heart of something that makes america special; the optimism that our children will have better lives than we do. a new rasmussen reports poll finds only 14% believe that our

children growing up today will be better off than their parents. 14%. 65% believe they will not be better off. that is an all-time low, that 14% number in this poll. mike gallagher is a syndicated radio host and a fox news contributor, and simon rosenberg is the president and founder of ndn, the national democratic network, and former campaign adviser for bill clinton. gosh, that is just so dishearten, you know? and yet you can look at it and think, gosh, i hope, i hope things will be better for my children, but it's hard to say that. it's hard to really say that right now. simon, i don't want to make a democrat thing or a republican thing, but do you feel it? >> look, i think it's the big question. i don't want to get into the partisan thing either, but i think it's the big question facing the voters today which is who's going to have a better plan that will give people faith that things are going to get better in the future. i think that's what the

remaining part of this election's going to be about. because i think this is, megyn, the sense that you're describing that tomorrow won't be better than today is something that is really gripping a lot of americans. and i think it's been coming for a long time. we're in the middle of it now, and it's clearly what this election should be about. megyn: you know, it is from when president obama took office in january 200927% believed that their -- 2009 27% believed their children would be better off, now it's down to 14. clearly, the past few years have been tough ones for america, mike. >> well, and i'll happily make it a partisan issue because, frankly, mitt romney has a perfect political opportunity to tap in to young people. forget no child left behind, how about no college graduate left behind? my writing partner wrote a piece this week that's going to appear points out that young people right now are staring down the worst economy that we've seen in decades, they're not being hired, there's no sense of optimism, there's no sense of that ronald reagan shining city on the hill. and everybody knows it.

simon knows it and, frankly, the guy who's got to bear the responsibility is the guy at the top. this administration has not given people a reason to dream, certainly hasn't given young people a reason for hope, and that's why this poll is a very realistic reflection of the disastrous lack of leadership that has come from washington over the last three-and-a-half years. mitt romney could win the young people's vote if they play it smart. megyn: you know, simon, it does seem to some extent it relates to the economy because if you look at the stats, the stats are pretty good for the way we're living now in terms of our social progress, i'll put it that way. 84% of americans have higher family incomes than their parents did. kids are less likely the to use alcohol or marijuana, less likely to have sex or become pregnant today than in any year since 1946. kids will live longer than their parents, 78.5 in '08, kids will be better educated. so we're going the right direction on all those things, and yet the optimism for our

children doing better than we're doing right now is so low. >> i think it's being driven by two big things, or at least two big things. one is that, you know, we're going through a profound economic and geopolitical change. the world is changing, and people feel we're leaving one era that was pretty good and entering another era where they're just not so sure whether things are going to be better. i think that's a reasonable -- >> that's the hope and change? >> in a time of great change. the second thing i would say is the length of time that the economy's been rough on the american people. we started seeing slower job growth and wage declines in 2001. the housing crisis started in 2006. the recession and the financial collapse start inside 2008. so part of what this is reflecting is the length of time that this has been going on, over a decade now -- megyn: well, wait -- >> over a decade now which is why i think it's contributing to this sense of hopelessness. >> come on. megyn: i want to ask you, mike, because americans are less

optimistic about the possibility of working hard and getting ahead, they don't believe if they just put their nose to the grindstone that they can succeed in this country. 28% believe that anybody here can work hard and get rich, it's the lowest finding since june of 2011. and some folks on your side of the aisle say that that is due to president obama not being a good enough messager and, in fact, making comments that arguably put down those that work hard. i'm going to tee it up, i'll let you guys talk about it, but here is one of those sound bites that's been problematic for the president recently. >> if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. you didn't get there on your own. i'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because i was just so smart. there are a lot of smart people out there. it must be because i worked harder out there. let me tell you something, there are a whole bunch of hard working people out there. [cheers and applause] if you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some

help. there was a great teacher somewhere in your life, somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system that we have that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested in roads and bridges. if you've got a business, that -- you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. megyn: mike? >> listen, you don't have to criticize him, it comes from his own words. i mean, president obama has been openly hostile and antagonistic towards what we used to believe was the american dream. i'm a 52-year-old guy, and i was taught by my parents as a young boy you got to dream big so that maybe someday you can run a company. you know, we need desperately the spirit of ronald reagan, but we also need to remember the spirit of going back to george washington. george washington once said a people possessed of the spirit of commerce can achieve anything. anything is possible. that's the american spirit, not this class warfare garbage the

democrats have been engaged in, demonizing business owners. and, again, frankly, it doesn't take a critic to point it out. just listen to president obama's own words and understand he is hostile towards the concept of the american dream. he's also given speeches, megyn, talking about demeaning the corner office and making fun of the country club and making fun of financial success. the american people know it. they're not being allowed to the dream by this guy's angry rhetoric. megyn: go ahead, simon. >> yeah. so if the election were held today according to "the wall street journal," barack obama would win by six percentage points on the question of who's going to help the middle class, he's winning by almost 20 points over mitt romney. so this idea that somehow barack obama is against the american dream, there's probably no greater embodiment of what can happen in america than barack obama's own story. >> -- [inaudible] >> let me finish! let me finish! his own story of an african, a

mixed-race person, i find this conversation insulting. >> i -- >> there is no greater embodiment of the american dream than barack obama -- >> i don't blame you. megyn: hold on, let him finish. >> to argue against it is not shared by 55% of the american people. i keep saying it between now and election day, it's not going to change a thing. >> again, all you have to do is listen to president obama's words, and i don't blame you for being angry, simon. you're barking up a tree. no one's buying what you're selling. >> 49% of the american people do. >> you can quote every statistic you just want. you just heard the guy's own words. i'll dare you to defend -- >> i'll be happy to defend it. >> you can't. >> what he said was if we're going to create prosperity and growth in the country, it takes all of us working together. >> uh-huh, it takes aville. >> because at the end of the day, we're all in this together. >> yeah, we sure are. megyn: do i have time to get this in, guys? i want to leave it on a positive

note, right? given the topic that we're discussing. because you mentioned reagan, mike. and i think a lot of folks on the left and the right have come to revere at least his messaging and his optimism about america, and so let's leave it on a happy note and listen to him many 1992. >> amen. >> at the republican national convention. >> amen. >> it's a great speech. >> my dream is that you will travel the road ahead with liberty's lamp guiding your steps and opportunity's arm steadying your way. my fondest hope for each one of you, and especially for the young people here -- [cheers and applause] what this is, my hope is that you will love your country not for her power or wealth, but for her selflessness and idealism. may each of you have the heart to conceive the understanding to direct, and the hand to execute works that will make the world a

little better for your having been here. may all of you as americans never forget your heroic origins, never fail to seek divine guidance and never lose your natural, god-given optimism. megyn: never lose your natural, god-given optimism. >> amen. megyn: thank you both so much. >> take care. meg see you soon. follow me on twitter, @megyn kelly. new information confirms that a sigh psychiatrist at the university of colorado was treating shooting suspect james holmes at the time of the massacre. he attempted to warn the doctor at least one time before he killed 12 people, so could the university be on the hook for failing to do more? that's next.

megyn: kelly's court is back in session. bombshell developments in the colorado movie massacre. accused shooter james holmes formally charged today with 24

counts of murder among a long list of other charges. attorneys also argued over a defense motion that is trying to discover who leaked information to the news media about a package that holmes sent in the mail to this woman. her name is dr. lynn fenton. she is the university of colorado psychiatrist who holmes now says was treating him. she is also a member of the university's threat assessment team, although we don't know that that's the capacity in which she was treating him. the package, addressed to her, apparently contained a notebook that outlined an attack showing stick figures killing other stick figures which raises the question what did dr. fenton and the university know about holmes before he allegedly opened fire, and can they be held responsible for it? joining me now, least lis wiehl and mark ieg lahr,. now we know he was under psychiatric care.

we don't know whether she came into his life because he sought counseling for her or part of her threat capacities, but according to him, she was his psychiatric daughter. and there is a duty, lis, under the law if you are a psychiatrist treating somebody under some limited circumstances to break privilege and go report to the authorities if you think you have a dangerous patient. >> yes. and let's talk about that privilege for one second, a doctor and patient privilege that you cannot break that privilege unless the patient tells you in pretty much explicit form i'm going to do this at such and such time or date or, you know, not even that close to this or that person. i am going to carry out a harmful act. then that psychiatrist and/or doctor has the duty of reporting to the state agencies that the client is going to be doing that. megyn: it was born in the wake of another university shooting of a girl who was a university student, a guy was seeing a psychologist on the campus, and the psychologist after receiving

a specific threat that the guy was going to kill her warned the campus police, buthat was all. and then she was stabbed to death. that lawsuit resulted in the court's holding that a psychiatrist has to give warning or at least to protect the intended victim. >> yes. megyn: so, mark, if they can establish that dr. lynn fenton either through this package that they tried to get to her -- it doesn't look like she got it -- or through some other means, through the counseling sessions she had with holmes was told of his plans to murder folks, could she face liability? could the university? >> the answer is, yes. and that's an easy one. but her face has been up on her screen, we've said her name several times, i've got to defend her. there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever at this point that he ever communicated anything to her that was clear and that was an imminent threat that he intended to create, number one. number two, this package never got to her. even the leaks that are coming

out which prosecutors have said are not accurate, no one suggested she received this notebook and knew about this tragic, abhorrent -- >> but, mark, okay, assume you're right on that, assume she did not have the notebook, would you agree with me if he sends that notebook to her -- she doesn't get it in time, obviously, you know, before this massacre happens -- but it wouldn't be kind of a logical conclusion that he'd been talking to her about these things --? no, absolutely -- megyn: psychiatry counseling sessions, mark. >> wait a second. somehow we're going to deduce what is in this man's mind, that it's logical he would have done something? megyn: well, he's planning this for at least four months, mark, he was amassing the weapons, the body gear, he was laying out the explosives plans at his apartment. >> so, yeah? so he must have communicated that to his psychiatrist? megyn: it's not unreasonable -- >> sorry, guys, we part company.

megyn: whether he was discussing homicidal tendencies with his -- >> it's all right to ask. you can ask all day long, but this doctor there's no evidence whatsoever that he spoke one word about it. and if it was in general terms, if he said, you know what? someday i may want to do harm to somebody, lis will concede that's -- >> in a general way, i think that's at least the right to get to her records and find out -- megyn: let me stop you there, lis. we are definitely going to see the records of what holmes and dr. fenton discussed, are we not? >> no. >> of course that comes up, mark. megyn: lull absolutely, it does, mark. >> wait, you're talking about the notebook or just general stuff? >> megyn: all of it. you're telling me we don't get to see the records between the alleged shooter and his psychiatrist? >> probably. megyn: yeah. >> probably. megyn: we're going to get to see it. so then we will find out whether they discussed his homicidal tendencies, and do we all agree, though, as mark points out it's

going to have to be specific, he can't say i'm thinking about killing somebody, it's got to be -- we all agree? >> yeah. megyn: doctor's records right after this break. or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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megyn:ing so now we're also learning more about dr. fenton's history, and while she's got a lot of accomplishments, she's also had some professional discipline that may cause her some extra scrutiny at trial if she has to testify. >> yeah. in 2005 she was reprimanded. why, megyn? because she was prescribing for herself and her husband and, i guess, an employee of either herself or husband, drugs that shouldn't have been priebd, xanax, ambien, yeah, i've got the whole list here. megyn: vicodin. >> yeah.

>> what's with bashing the doctor? megyn: because this may be a witness at trial. we're looking at what's going to happen on the stand at trial, pga. >> i've got it. her picture's been up, her name's been tossed around. there's no evidence at all that this guy ever uttered the word that he was going to do anything -- megyn: that's absolutely, 100% true, and we're not trying to trash the doctor. that's why we have both sides represented, mark, that's why we're here. >> great. cool. megyn: but it would be irresponsible not to talk about the fact that this woman has emerged, according to the defense, as responsible for his psychiatric career in a case in which we all agree this is going to be an insanity defense. >> yes. >> well, it's fair game then. megyn: the next question i have for you is if this woman counseled him, and let's say she didn't get any warning, is the university potentially liable here because its employee was counseling him and failed to detect something or because it left the package with the warning or the stick figure

shooting, you know, the red flags sitting in the mail room for so long or for a question of days, lis? >> it's possible. you've got to talk about negligence and liability. if they left it knowing or should have known that something bad was in there, something that could forestall a crime, then of course. if it's just negligence of a mail carrier, that's a much harder case to prove. now, if she knew or should have known what he was, holmes, was about to do and she and/or the school did not alert anybody, then they're both on the hook for that. megyn: and, you know, mark, we can't know more because the judge has placed this massive gag order on everybody involved in the case. so we have to sit and wonder. >> that's true, yes. i don't think that somehow that they're to be held responsible because they don't get their mail to people in time, you know? megyn: that's a threat. >> it's really unfortunate, and it's frustrating to think this could have been prevented only from that -- >> what did the doctor know. megyn: great debate. thank you both so much. we'll be right back. >> thanks.

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