him. requests filed under the freedom of information act. >> and fox news alert on troubling alert from the non-congressional budget office today is a report that a lot of this content budget deficit. more than $1.1 trillion for the fourth year in a row. and there is more. welcome to "america live", i am megyn kelly. the biggest story is this. we are now just days away from our nation's next milestone.

our debt is now 50%. fifty-five and in just the last 3.5 years. giovanni giovanni is here put numbers into perspective. it is so deep in the red, one wonders if we can ever give ourselves out? >> let me spell it out for you, megyn. our debt is not european proportion for the really big problem is the interest that we have to pay to borrow all about money. this year, we are going to shell out $500 billion in interest alone. that is just the interest on our debt. $500 billion out. that is 10 billion every week, going out. much of it is going overseas. it is a kind of foreign aid.

last year, it was 50 billion a year less. this year, it is a full half trillion dollars and going up. that is what happens when you shell out, or whether when you spend a trillion dollars more than you are taking in and you keep it up for four years. it is a desperate the situation. we cannot reach agreement in washington over help to solve this problem. megyn: the republicans want spending cuts and they want to revise and reform the tax code, the democrats want to hike taxes. they cannot reach agreement on what to do. the congressional budget office today said if nobody agrees on anything and we get the spending cuts that have been put in place, they are supposed to take place at the end of the year, and we get the tax hikes that are bidders was to take place at the end of the year, we are likely to face a brand-new recession pushing unemployment up to around 9% by late next year. who knows after next year.

>> that is all directory that is exactly what the congressional budget office spelled out today. if we go on with policies that are in place now, if we go over that fiscal cliff on january 1, that is what you say, megyn, we go to a recession. we will lose more than 1 million jobs. there is no agreement on either side of the aisle on exactly what we should do, and we are headed straight towards the fiscal cliff. if we go over the cliff and into the recession that the cbo is talking about, our debt situation gets even worse. because if you go into recession, the treasury takes and a lot less money. and we would have a bigger deficit. debt and deficits, at the heart of this problem. that is what we need. nobody has a plan, they have plans, but they are completing plans on what exactly to do. megyn: we have some more moderate folks, like the one

gentleman who has come out and said, even though i like barack obama, at least the romney-ryan ticket has a plan for revising medicare and doing something honest. but it is a plan that a lot of people don't like. no party has shown a lot of courage in tackling this issue. let me ask you this, how to think it's a bad? barack obama has taken heat for increasing this debt. 50% in just the last 3.5 years. he said he was going to lower the debt. he did not. he has added a trillion dollars a year. we are in a recession, but isn't all attributable to his plans and trying to get us out of this recession? spend, spend, spend. >> much of it, yes. runaway entitlement spending, primarily medicare that is jacking up the deficit every single year. president obama has also increased what you might call discretionary spending. things like food stamps, unemployment insurance, those kinds of things he has raised significantly.

that is not being helped by the recession, which has pushed more people into those social programs. we are shelling out a trillion dollars more than we are bringing in. that is the deficit on an ongoing basis, and that is what the cbo has spelled out today. that is where we are, megyn. the key point is you know you are at a danger point and the tipping point when you are spending $500 billion every year on interest alone. $10 billion a week, and that keeps going up. megyn: a lot of americans have been there. you overspend under credit card, and you have to pay so much and you don't touch the principle, it's a terrible, scary feeling and it's a feeling that our country is in right now. according to our sources, that means that the country has spent about $18 million more than we have. in the last three minutes while you have been talking.

>> two quick points. we hit $16 trillion around the republican national convention. that will be an item in the news. in the public notices the debt. in a gallup poll, the biggest disapproval rating for president obama was on a tangling of the dead. 64% disapprove much bigger disapproval than on jobs or the economy. debt is a key factor in the selection. megyn: up to 22 million. we have to go. on the government's current financial state, over the past four fiscal years, the government has spent about $14 trillion. in just the past few minutes, as i mentioned, the country has spent about $12.5 million for in excess spending is nothing new in the good old usa. the government has spent more than it has taken in for 70 of the past 80 years. it has been worse in certain years than others. coming up, a top house report is

getting attention today for suggesting the media is leading this country down. by not spending enough time talking about economic issues like this one. we will ask our panel if he is right. and a fox news weather alert as the mayor of tampa, florida, issues warnings of a storm threatening the rnc. saying that he will order things shut down if the storm gets too close. if things get dangerous. tropical storm isaac is strengthening as it moves into the caribbean. it could grow into a hurricane and possibly hit south florida as the convention kicks off. coming up, our meteorologist has been tracking the storm closely. we will tell you where hurricane ivan is heading inland. "america live" is planning to be live from the republican national convention unless the mayor tells us to get out on monday, august 27 at 1:00 o'clock p.m. this happened last time during

the rnc. reporting at the same time, that hurricane gustav was there at the time. fox news has complete coverage of the rnc and dnc, beginning sunday, august 26. we hope you will join us. there is a political controversy in washington today. after folks found out that the labor department paid out $500,000 of your money, that stimulus money, to run ads touting the obama administration screen training job efforts. two and msnbc shows. shannon bream has answers live in washington. >> megyn, this came from the department of labor using stimulus funds to air commercials onto primetime msnbc shows touting the government's job corps training specifically aimed at green jobs. the official contract showed that zero jobs were created as a result and critics say that the

prime example of why taxpayers are so skeptical about stimulus spending. many critics are asking my government would pay to advertise its job training if it was a private industry, when it has no competitors in this particular field. here is david williams, president of the watchdog group taxpayers alliance. >> taxpayers shrug their shoulders and say, why is the government advertising? they can see private company advertising, but not the government and taxpayer funds. think about this. taxpayers may not agree with this green agenda. yet, they are forced to pay for these advertisements. >> we have reached out to the labor department to get the agency's side of the story. they have yet to respond. to spokesman told a media outlet that the money was used as an important outreach towards labor awareness among employers about the special green jobs training that the government offers. the officials said that the automobile jobs and solar panel installation instructions, among other things, weighing more than

a hundred times in 2009. the contract outlined the deal funded by taxpayer dollars conference zero jobs created by those ads. megyn: thank you. the dnc has announced that center luke will now join elizabeth warren and a host of other outspoken women to carry forth what appears to be the life of julia campaign message of a so-called republican war on women. this is going to be the democratic platform when they have their convention in two weeks. is this really the best method for the democrats to put forth to the country? we will have a fair and balanced debate on that. and a construction project gone wrong. a blast sending people running for cover. how did this happen? democrats celebrated the paul ryan pick as romney's vp. as a romney death wish that would drive senior citizens away. now, we have a report on just how many seniors actually like

paul ryan. the more that they get to know him. what does it mean for the election and for the so-called mega-scare tactics. >> here is what the president will tell you about his medicare plan. about obamacare. the president raised $716 billion from the medicare program to pay for the obamacart program the calcium they take because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. that's why my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption.

>> i want to introduce you to my mom. this is my mom, betty. she is why i am here, she and her grandkids are why i am here. say hello to my mom, betty.

megyn: betty. that was vice presidential candidate, paul ryan, introducing his mom to a crowd at the nation's largest retirement community. democrats have argued that mr. ryan and his plan would hurt seniors because he wants to revamp medicare entities at heading off a fiscal cliff as the term has been started off. he wants to do something about whether that would hurt seniors on the republican ticket. imagine the surprise when the "washington post" today highlighted this poll. showing 50% of seniors actually have a favorable opinion of paul ryan, compared to 35% who do not. brad blakeman is a former assistant to george w. bush and the former chief of staff of the west virginia staff, former senator, joe manchin. it turns out that the seniors,

and a significant margin, like powell and 10 paul ryan, and when you look at the overall numbers, they are starting to like him more and more as they get to know him. brad, doesn't mean that the forecast by a lot of democrats, but this will be devastating for the romney ticket, may have been a little premature? >> they were licking their chops when they heard that paul ryan would be to beat the nomination. what they tried to do is set up to damage him early by thinking that they would run away and be able to defend his policies on medicare. the fact of the matter is, she has something to defend on medicare and took it right back to the democrats. he went with his mother, betty, to florida, went to retirement communities and looks very, and the democrats now, unfortunately come have come to the realization that they are not going to be able to damage paul ryan like they thought they would. under their 3-d strategy of distorting the romney and ryan record, distracting away from

their own dismal record on the economy and dividing. it didn't work. megyn: chris, what do you make of this? when paul ryan came out from about 39 of the the percentage of folks said paul ryan who? he went from 32% unfavorable to 37%. but his favorable rating shot up from 29% to 41% favorable. >> i think when you kind of break it down. i love brad's positive assessment, but the reality is since ryan has been picked, when you announce the vp, it becomes national news. romney's numbers have basically not changed one iota. when you are talking about medicare, people just came out a few days ago. it just shows that 49% of those who were polled disapproved of the ryan plan. it is a big difference between

being likable and liking one's policies. and i think that the problem that the romney-ryan ticket has, in particular, medicare. the idea of doing dramatic restructuring, the authorizing the program, the idea basically that you are no longer going to have a guarantee, but basically saying that seniors who are 55 years and younger, but they basically have to fend from themselves. that is not a program that i think most americans want. [talking over each other] >> let me say this -- megyn: he raises a good point. the ryan plan speaks to folks 55 years and younger. if you are under 55, you would be affected by the proposed changes to medicare. that might explain the fact that seniors are saying, the current seniors -- they are seeing that they would not be affected, even if romney-ryan got into the white house and ryan's medicare plan was way past.

>> that's absolutely right. mascara doesn't work. he came out and said i'm not going to hurt my mom or yule. my plans have nothing to do with people who are over 55 years old. medicare is going broke and it has to be revamped. we have to be able to provide for the people who are banking on it for sure. so once that they know the true story, as we see, let me correct chris. the national polls don't go by the national polls -- go by the battleground state polls that show that ryan in places like wisconsin, he is making a difference and the fact that he is on a ticket, has movement numbers. >> i'm not sure what polls you are looking at, but i have not seen any polls were ryan has moved in a positive direction. you are talking about any movement being within the margin of error. megyn: they also show in the poll that just 30% of the folks

say that they heard a lot about paul ryan's plan for medicare. you know, once the democrats are done making their arguments on that plan, do you expect we will see his numbers? his favorability numbers change? >> well, here's one thing to keep in mind when you're talking about presidential races. nobody votes for the bottom of the ticket unless you have a completely gasser disastrous situation. the problem for the romney and ryan ticket is the advantage of democrats -- they can make the argument about medicare. when we are talking about key battleground states like florida, nevada, virginia, sizable senior populations, that is going to be a very difficult argument to make. let me correct brad on something. the notion that romney keeps saying the $716 billion that are cut from medicare -- that is false. it is not a cut. it's cost savings. ryan actually includes the same number in his budget.

megyn: i have to run, but let me correct you. florida seniors they are -- they are were opposed to obamacare than they are afraid of ryan's medicare revision. >> let's see how that plays out over the next two months. i have a feeling that more people will be scared about medicare changing. megyn: it is going to change under president obama. at will. it will change under obamacare. >> if you change it in a fundamental way and doctoring the program is a dramatic change in this program. you are basically privatizing medicare. let's be honest about it, and that is something we have going on. >> you are giving people a choice. [talking over each other] megyn: we have to go. >> medicare taxes are over. this election will not turn on medicare, but jobs and that in budgeting and energy. he made eight on the middle attack and it didn't work.

now we will take you to the issues that do to the american people. megyn: good job, guys. coming up, the democrats democratic national committee will announce that senator flug will join elizabeth warren on the war on women. remember the life of julia? we will do debate whether that was a wise move coming up next. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle --

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megyn: a four year old girl credited with saving her grandmother's life. after the 64 year old was attacked by a swarm of aggressive killer bees. trace gallagher has more live from our west coast newsroom. >> whitney kristin was staying with her grandmother.

her grandmother was in the yard. when he looked out the window and saw that her grandmother was being attacked by a swarm of bees without hesitation. whitney ran outside and despite the fact that both she and her grandmother were being stung by bees, she was able to push her grandmother's lifeline button. >> i saw my grandmother get attacked. >> and what did you tell them? >> i called her and that she needed help. >> what did they say? >> they said help is on the way. reporter: they said grandma really did need help. they found swarms of bees all over the neighborhood, including the killer bees, africanized bees. the man who lives next door is a beekeeper. the beekeeper apparently wasn't cooperating. it took firefighters for hours

to get these bees under control. the grandmother was stung dozens of times in her face and body including numerous stings inside her mouth and nose. she is in intensive care on a ventilator, but she is alive. >> i know for fact that she didn't save her grandmother's life. it is amazing that her four year old can recognize that she needed help and can activate the proper authorities. >> you just helped grandma out? >> yes. reporter: little whitney kristin was stung twice. the beekeeper could be facing charges. megyn: that is unbelievable. to live next to a beekeeper, talk about drawing the short straw, especially one that doesn't maintain his bees. then the little girl knowing what to do. i talked into the thing that talks and said help is on the way. good for her. thank you, trace gallagher. good for you, little whitney.

coming up, a bizarre legal fight at the casino was after gamblers for winnings. this is a great story. now, they show up at the baccarat table. they did not keep the $1.5 million with a one. they say they won it fair and square. that is in today's "kelly's court." don't go to las vegas before you hear what happens here. and senator flug and elizabeth warren and others. they will show up at the democratic national convention for the life of julia campaign message at that convention. all part of the claim that there is a republican war on women and other messages. we will talk about whether that is the winning argument for the democrats when we come back from the break.

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60 days risk-free! use promo code: onguard. order now, and get this document shredder, a $29 value, free! call or go online now. [♪...] megyn: to the campaign trail now. president obama is in north las vegas at this hour. one of the most downtrodden communities. he is focusing on education issues. he just wrapped up a roundtable with teachers. we are monitoring this event and we'll bring you any major developments. if you'd like to watch it on fox

news.com, it is streaming live. new details on the democrats plan for their convention in charlotte. a new report comes out that trent lott has been invited to speak and will speak. she is the former georgetown law student who testified to congress in february that paying for birth control is a crippling financial burden. >> without insurance coverage, contraception can cost a woman over $3000 during law school. for a lot of students who, like me, are on public scholarships, that is practically an entire summer salary. megyn: is that a good idea? joining me now is monica crowley and kirsten powers. both fox news contributors. now we have a better feel for what we will see at the democratic national convention. we will have missed sandra fluke, who is an advocate for women, only women who hold

certain views. and we have elizabeth warren, who is an advocate of you did not build out and made it a little bit better than president obama made it. i will ask you on this first. whether you think this is the right approach for the democrats? >> well, there was a lot of different speakers, obviously. i think elizabeth warren was a little more meaningful because she will speak right before the bill clinton speech. she will be making a more explicitly economic argument, which is obviously the thing that everybody is voting on. she does make it pretty articulately. i think she makes the argument that the government has a role in people's lives in a positive role in which is a very different view from a lot of conservatives. i think she makes it very well. megyn: what about sandra fluke? before we get to monica, i will tell you what the message is going to be. the republicans will say that the democratic platform is,

thank god for government. we have elizabeth warren saying that the government built it, not you and sandra fluke saying thank god, for government paying for my birth control. and then you have the life of julia. rock obama showed the cradle-to-grave government services that will make a woman's life better. >> women are far more likely to be democratic and the reason is because -- particularly unmarried women, the reason is because they tend to rely on the social safety net more. this message is actually a very good message for that group of people. this is a smart choice. megyn: what you think, monica? >> i think it fits into the one woman which they developed and tried to execute as a way to deflect that catastrophic economy. they tried to change the conversation. thing the republicans want to

take away your birth control. i do think by reinforcing it, i think a lot of people expected them to do it. but this is a real big surprise, i don't think so. but what is interesting to me is that unmarried women, barack obama won unmarried women 78% last time. perhaps he feels worried about solidifyisolidifyi ng that vote, which is why he is going after it and trying to emphasize the issues. the bottom line is for most women, let's set aside the slicing and dicing. [talking over each other] megyn: if you look at the new list of the day that she is going to speak -- tammy duckworth, caroline kennedy, even one coria, sandra fluke -- that seems to be their angle.

>> this tells me they are worried about the single woman's voice. the republicans are going to come back and say, the real women that we shall be talking about our issues like unemployment. megyn: i am focused on whether these are the right ambassadors. sandra fluke has her position. she likes obamacare because it provided what would be free birth control, but not really for the taxpayers, exactly. but the narrative that came out about her, you know, when she was making her idea known, was she was someone who could've gotten birth control for $15 down the street and it didn't need to be $3000 a year. i pointed out at the time, having been a law school graduate, that the average starting salary for graduates is $160,000 per year. for your first year out. you know, when you think of her,

you remember the controversy. >> well, if that is her average salary, which i don't think she was doing, -- megyn: what she's talking about other georgetown law school grad. >> she was making an argument. but you don't necessarily have to be the person when you are making the argument but you don't necessarily have to be the person when you are making the argument. before we relitigate the whole thing, i think she is a good choice. what monica says is right. they are concerned about unmarried women. they are not worried that they're going to vote republican, but that they won't turn out. that is why they are doing this kind of stuff. this is not just explicit arguments. the republicans think this is about the war on women and birth control. but it's really more about the republicans are going to take away your social safety net, the democrats are not going to do that to you. that is the message that actually resonates with women

who feel that they are economically vulnerable. megyn: i just want to point out that the latest polling shows that elizabeth warren is now behind in that senate race in massachusetts by five points, which has been very tight. scott brown has opened up a five-point lead. does that tell you anything about her chances in that state of massachusetts? >> it is very interesting. i think that your skin is right. unlike sandra fluke, elizabeth warren is a candidate for very high office. he probably should be there if she's a democrat. i want to get back to cure since point. i agree with it to this extent. the role of all of these women at the dnc, they are going to try to do that narrative that she just laid out. the government is here for you. that's exactly right. this election is about the big issues. what is the proper role, size

and scope of government. we have seen the president obama and nancy pelosi and harry reid have done over the last 3.5 years. what directions you really want this country to vote. do you want redistributionist and a welfare style government? or do you want more individual freedom and economic liberty. megyn: the democratic national convention will be dominated by women in the republican national convention appears to be likely dominated by tropical storm isaac. [laughter] >> julia versus tropical storm isaac. megyn: we will update on this cocoon of uncertainty or if it is the parts further southeast that will get it. thank you so much, ladies. coming up, a construction team miscalculated on explosives for digging a new subway line. it created a blast that sent

debriseight stories in the air and rocks in the entire street. we will look at exactly how that happened. the conservative groups, citizens united, gaining attention when it won a case on political advertising on whether companies have the right of the speech when it comes to politics. that was a ruling that president obama was so upset about. he slams the supreme court in his state of the union address. now, the group at the center of it all is making its first entrance into the 2012 campaign and we will speak to them about their message next at usaa, we believe honor is not exclusive to the military, and commitment is not limited to one's military oath. the same set of values that drive our nation's military

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>> with all due deference to separation of powers, last week the supreme court reversed a century of law that i believe will open the floodgates for special interests. including foreign corporation. to spend without limit in our elections. i don't think american elections should be bankrolled by america's most powerful interest. or worse, by foreign entities. megyn: that was president obama during his state of the union address 2.5 years ago. speaking about the supreme court case that was won by the conservative group citizens united. about whether corporations have free speech rights. now, the group is making its first entry into a 2012 presidential campaign. through a provocative film called the hope and change. it is set to debut at the republican national convention in tampa, florida, next week. here is a clip from the trailer.

>> i have never been more broken my life. >> it's not working. >> it is bad. >> it is like buyers remorse he met obama let me down. megyn: citizens united president and producer of that film is here along with the director of the film. thank you both so much for being here, gentlemen. david, let me start with you. the president was talking about you. upset with you in the justices in the high court who agree with your argument. that citizens should have corporations should have free-speech writes to weigh in on political matters. >> in 2008, this film would've been illegal. as a matter of fact, criminal and punishable by prison time. i found that to be outrageous and that is why we went to the courts. that is what this case is about. it isn't about creating american crossroads or allowing unions to spend unlimited amounts of

money. >> but it is the reality that we have more speech, not less. that is a very important thing. the average american can participate in the political process, where as before, they couldn't. megyn: the bedrock of the first amendment is more speech and not less speech. the president believe that there should be a difference when it comes to spending and political campaigns. what was the difference between citizens united and your desire to make a phone that was not necessarily pro-democrat. and what michael moore has been doing since 9/11. >> there was no difference except the class that we were in is not the same as michael moore. the federal election commission and congress have allowed the media attention, which allows fox and lions gate and "the new york times" to participate in the political process like no other american can. you get the media exemption, therefore, right. in my case, it allows him to do

that and a scooter that. before our case, he was allowed to do that and we won. that is the very important part of this entire case. people don't understand. megyn: the film, when you look at it, is a bunch of folks who voted for barack obama in the last election. >> a dear and a friend of mine, democrats and independents who voted for president obama. where are they now? we did focus groups. we found people who are registered independent who voted for president obama. where they see the country right now. it is a stone to let the american people talk. megyn: what is the message? what do you feel at the end of the hour? >> the american people are far ahead to understand the existential financial crisis that is destroying the middle class. with president obama.

they invested in president obama with a lot of hope. the change in size not the change they want. megyn: what is it me, the hope and the change? >> that was his campaign title. the hope and the change. let's see what plays out. megyn: seemed rather it was the hope of the change. >> we would have as many as people as possible to watch and start a conversation. megyn: you are getting brushback. because they say there is a two-minute two minute trailer. in this film, you show events in a way that is not accurate and not for president obama. in particular, the example i read was chief justice john roberts and then you showed the lehman brothers bankruptcy which predated it. >> we wanted to go back and show that the lehman brothers bankruptcy is what started the financial crisis. then have people talk about that. people look at timothy geithner and president obama as one of the same.

the fact that the tar bill was passed -- the tarmac bill. these are low information voters. they look at it all as one. the whole president of him accountable for not holding people accountable. >> so it's not what they that they believe that he caused this update ? [talking over each other] >> me that the country was in tough shape when they saw the film. megyn: you are going to unroll it at the republican national convention. >> yes. megyn: i have to ask you, as the person behind citizens united, when you heard the president calling you out at the state of the union, samuel alito had that characterized by shaking his head no. what was that like for you? >> my wife and i were at home watching it. to hear that you are being talked about by any president is pretty amazing.

megyn: it is jaw-dropping, right? >> i had to watch it several times to realize that actually happened. [laughter] >> first, the hypocrisy of it all. he says for years that he's not going to participate in it, and then of course, they have a super pac. megyn: you have to have people. gentlemen, thank you both so much. we will be right back. are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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megyn: a busy day on the campaign trail. the republican ticket dividing up. a pair of battleground states this app on this hour. you can have a fox news.com for more on their offense and you can watch governor romney's remarks streaming live on fox news.com as well.

new video of terrifying moments in new york city. look at the top of your screen. an explosion rocking the street, sending chunks of broken concrete flying through windows and a plume of dust and smoke towering eight stories high. trace gallagher is live with this story. reporter: you can see this thing from blocks away. in new york, a lot of witnesses. the first thing they thought about was terrorism. this look like a volcano in the middle of manhattan. this guy in a white t-shirt was messing around in front of the camera at first, then, as you can see, he saw and heard the explosion heard it shop chunks of concrete and bedrock 80 to 90 feet high. people living 16 stories above said that the blast knocked items off their walls. this was a controlled, dynamite last that went out of control. here are the witnesses. >> all of a sudden i heard a

boom. i turned around and sell rocks saw rocks and debris flying. it was a lot of dust. >> i was shaking. this is extraordinary. we did not move to this neighborhood to be killed by dynamite. >> the rocks were the size of my fist. reporter: the transit authority called a mistake unacceptable. they want answers within 24 hours, that was 25 hours ago. they are blasting to make an֖ escalator entrance to the subway below, about 40 feet. as they do in all blasts, traffic was moved away. uma: megyn: new warnings from one of washington's most important number pressures. a second recession is right around the corner. that story is coming up live next. a group of former special forces guys touch a nerve with the president's allies. the obama campaign now swimming in that the man is a swift smear campaign. we will have a fair and balanced debate coming up next okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle --

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megyn: fox news alert. a dire new warning about america's economy, as one of washington's most important number crunchers warns this a second recession could be right around the corner. brand-new hour here of "america live." welcome, everyone. i'm megyn kelly. this warning comes from the congressional budget office where the director is raising red flags today. douglas elmandorf saying that we are flirting with a new recession that could hit in just months if a deadlocked congress cannot reach a deal. the worry is a combination of billions of dollars in tax hikes and spending cuts is scheduled to take place on january 1st. listen to him here. >> if allowed to occur those sharp reductions in taxes, and -- sharp reductions in federal spending and increases in taxes will lead to a tkr dramatic reduction to the federal budget. that would be a significant

tightening of fiscal policy and would probably lead to a recession early next year. megyn:ed henry live in north las vegas where the president just spoke. >> reporter: good to see you. the president just wrapping up this event at a high school, campaigning in this battleground state, but the grim news from washington as you note, the cbo also projecting that for the fourth year in a row the federal budget deficit will top $1 trillion. in terms of the fiscal cliff that is coming that they are warning could lead to a recession, that fiscal cliff is referring to the fact that congress, leaders in both parties, failed to get a deficit deal some months ago. we have these automatic cuts, spending cuts called sequestration, defense cuts, other cuts that are coming at the end of this year. in addition to that the white house noting in a statement today that they believe house republicans should pass an extension of the middle class bush tax rates, extend those, get that going. the republican response has been, no, you know, extend awful

the bush tax breaks not just the ones for the middle class, that would be the best solution to deal with the economy. especially because what the cbo also said is that we are headed for higher unemployment in the next year. take a listen. >> we anticipate that output will expand again in the second half of next year and beyond. however, the unemployment rate will rise to about 9% in the second half of next year and remain above 8% through 2014, and our forecast under current law. >> now how this is playing out on the campaign trail you remember just yesterday vice president joe biden says he believes the middle class is coming back. republican paul ryan the g.o.p. running mate fired back today at an event in virginia that he doesn't believe the middle class is coming back because of the president's policies an charged that the president has a quote, imaginary recovery that is playing out right now. the president out here campaigning. he's head towed new york for fundraising. the cbo report a stark reminder

about leadership in washington and all of this coming to a head not just in the months coming up to the election, but after the election and into the coming year there are dire warnings. megyn: thank you, sir. on the campaign trail two big stories we are following today. first, a gamble by the obama campaign sending the president's top surrogate to tampa during the republican national convention. vice president joe biden is staging a rally on the opening day of the g.o.p. event. mr. biden quipping to reporters quote, i'm going to be the speaker at the convention. this as the democratic party announces a big change in charlotte, promising to disclose the names of the contributors who are funding this thing and promoting what they are calling the people's convention with these disclosures. officials are saying the names of the donors are going to stay

a secret, at least until well after the convention. chris stirewalt is our fox news digital editor and host of power play on fox news.com. >> joe biden will crash the republican national contention. he will be there monday and tuesday as well. while it's not totally unusual to have someone from the other party do something during the other party's convention, we are being told by several sources it is unprecedent towed have someonunprecedented to have someone who is actually on the other side's ticket to show up. >> what do you do with a loose cannon? if you know you have one and it's going to go off you don't want it on your side of the battlefield you want it on the other guy's side. the hope here with vice president biden who has had a remarkable string of campaign appearances, accusing republicans of wanting to reinstate slavery, or at least voters back in chains, y'all

back in chains, calling mitt romney and others capitalists, they are squealing like pigs. they are going to do something that gets attention. he can't help it. it is his nature. he's going to do that. i think the assumption here is that biden, in a combative mood, will go down to tampa and divert attention from what the republicans want to talk about. now, the republicans want on monday to be talking about ann romney, they want to be talking about the softer side, the wives, the families of the ticket of mitt romney and paul ryan. on tuesday they want chris christie and this aggressive fight, they want to have that out there. if you have joe biden down there, and he's blowing things up, that would probably be to the democrat's liking. megyn: is it a smart move by the white house? they probably, you tell me, they have a mainstream media that will be all too compliant. >> absolutely. this is a very smart move.

again, what do you do with a loose cannon? you get it on the other side of the battlefield. megyn: that doesn't mean the cannon isn't going to turn around and fire back on you. >> it's not to say that it won't, but at least it's farther away when it goes off. there's that. then there is also the fact that what democrats like about joe biden is his combativeness and the fact that he does call republicans pigs. that he does say that they want to put voters in virginia back in chains. they love that about him. they like that side. megyn: let's move on. let's talk about this thing about the democrats now not revealing who their big donors are. some are donat donating over a hundred thousand dollars. is this because they could and suddenly they are not and they are pulling things off their website that suggested that they would. >> "the washington post" caught them at this. this is the problem about making promises about transparency.

it's analogous to what president obama's experience throughout his whole administration, after promising to be the most transparent administration in history, every time they cut a corner, meet with a lobbyist at a cof time they do anything to skirt these rules it looks worst because they set up the standard for themselves. they said it's the people's convention, we won't be like republicans and take money from corporate, capitalist running dogs, we will be the people's convention. they continue get enough money because the labor unions didn't feel good about stocking a convention in a right to work state. hay had fundraising trouble. they are pulling down the disclosure, not saying who is providing the money. that is a suggestion that somebody is providing the money that they won't be very proud to be seen in public with. megyn: you tell me. they have to disclose it, but now. >> eventually. megyn: they are not going to disclose it until october 15th when the deadline for disclosure is here. is it better to just pull that band-aid off and get it over with during the convention when

there is a lot of things to focus on, it would be a story but not a huge story or wait until three weeks of the actual vote. >> if you're better to break your promise better to have it happen after the convention is over. that's what they are doing. they break the promise. by the time october comes along who cares whether or not big, bad corporation funded this convention. or who cares who the donors are. it's old news. it's six weeks old. if you do it now or you do it during the convention it's extra embarrassing because you haven't lived up to your own standard jo it's interesting they had on their website saying all contributions shall be disclosed publicly, "the washington post" calls up to say, who is making these donations and suddenly that language mysteriously disappeared from the website, unfortunately we have to do the same thing with you right now. bye-bye. >> bye-bye. megyn: he's gone. there. they are also dealing with controversy on the streets of charlotte, north carolina right now over two controversial billboards put up ahead of the

democratic national convention. an atheist group targeting the religious faiths of both president obama and governor mitt romney in new billboards. this one reads, christianity, sadistic god, useless savior. mormonisn. the billboard is on display along local highways. american atheists incorporated is paying for them. they say the billboards are aimed at keeping religion and politics separate as the conventions get underway. critics call them disrespectful. we've been telling you about it for an hour now. a storm of a different kind is bearing down on the republican national convention. the mayor of tampa says he is prepared to call the whole thing off if he has to, if severe weather hits. we are watching tropical storm isaac. it is forecast to head toward the sunshine state by early monday, that is right when the

republican national convention is set to open in tampa. preparations are underway right now in the city in anticipation of the convention, but concern is growing about the impact of this storm. our meteorologist janice dean is live in the fox weather center. she sent me a note on this two days ago saying i don't want to alarm anybody but you need to know i've seen something. >> yes, we've seen a big blob that could actually affect the republican national convention. and i wouldn't want to be those organizers just sitting there wondering, should we cancel? take a look at this. i'm not going to say that a hurricane is going to hit tampa, st. petersburg. but in terms of most vulnerable cities, number one, and that is because over a hundred thousand people live below flood stage. it takes really nothing to flood that city. so just as a reminder that we're dealing with a very vulnerable city. just want to show you tropical depression number 10, that will

become joyce. there is isaac. the tropical is very active. this is a tropical storm. we are expecting it to become a hurricane as early as tomorrow. this is the latest track with the new advisory that came in at 2:00pm. by thursday, friday their cat one storm house of hispaniola. as we get further out in time we think it will cross over cuba and perhaps hug the coast. latest computer models are showing a hugging of the florida coastline monday into tuesday. even if tampa is not take a direct hit from a tropical storm or hurricane you're going to get perhaps tropical storm force winds, certainly some flooding and even some tornado warnings in your neighborhood. so as we look further out in time, there are your tropical orm models in good disagreement over the next couple of days, but then we have sort of the discrepancy here that makes that cone of uncertainty. megyn one thing is for sure, they are biting their nails over there in tampa.

>> i think that the hairstylists at fox news are biting the nails too you said it's going to be all political that week. i'm probably going to have it easy. guess again. >> i'll see you all next week. megyn: i'll see you over the satellite. i think i'm going to be inside. i haven't been fully briefed. >> you better be inside. you will be inside. i will make sure that that happens. megyn: scott our director says i'm going to be inside. oh, that is good. let's hope everybody is and everybody stays safe. thank you. we'll continue to follow that. the white house correspondent for abc news is getting attention today after saying that the media is letting this country down by not asking enough questions about the economy and chasing stories that at best are temporary distractions instead. we'll take a fair & balanced look at that claim. plus, the house didn't win this time, and the house is not happy. owners of a popular casino claim they got taken for a ride by a bad deck of cards, and now they

want the innocent money winners to turn over their winnings. $1.5million worth. that's in "kelly's court." and president obama brushing off this ad blasting him for national security leaks, saying he's not worried about the group of former seals. should he be? >> values fought for by our heros -- people really love snapshot from progressive, but don't just listen to me. listen to these happy progressive customers. i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. with snapshot, i knew what i could save before i switched to progressive.

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>> i don't see why anybody would purposely put lives in jeopardy. >> it will get americans killed. >> it is my civic duty to tell the president to stop leaking information to the enemy. megyn: that is a web ad from a group of former navy seals, blasting the white house for recent national security leaks, among other things. president obama told reporters on monday he is not too worried about these folks. but shortly after the ad appeared the obama team put up a web page trying to discredit the

group, calling their efforts swift boat 2.0, a reference there to 2004 attacks on senator john kerry and his military service. now even the highest military officer in the country, the chairman of the joint chiefs, general martin dempsey is speaking out about this web ad speaking to fox news exclusively. listen here. >> if someone uses the on you form, whatever uniform it is for partisan politics i'm disappointed by that, because i think it does erode that bond of trust we have with the american people. is their criticism valid? i won't comment on that. as to the latter, is it useful, no it's not useful to me. megyn: and he went on from there. joining me now christopher hahn a former aid to senator chuck schumer and a fox news contributor and chris plant, ra radio host of the chris plant show. the group actually was on fox news in response to general dempsey and says that is why they didn't use current military, they only used former

active duty, not active duty. but the chairman of the joint chiefs seems to say, look i think the whole thing just confuses people and it's important for us to remain apolitical in the minds of the people. chris haupbz i'll let you take the first stab at it. >> i think the general is absolutely right. you don't want to see the military engage in politics. that was an original founding principle of this country where they are actively campaigning for one side or another. i think that's what you have here. i think that the ads are extremely misleading and untruthful. look, at the end of the day the reason why we found out about osama bin laden the way we found out is because, look, when you launch an attack in a residential neighborhood and a helicopter goes down people are going to know about it. people on the ground in pakistan knew about it. pakistani press was on the scene right away. this is not something that was going to stay a secret for long. for anybody to claim that the president was out there boasting about this. putting lives if jeopardy, that is just plain false and i think awful the evidence --

megyn: that was one of their issues, they thought he boasted about the osama bin laden kill but they also blamed the leaks on him. if general dempsey is right if you decide to serve in the u.s. military you sacrifice your free speech rights when it comes to politics forever? >> no, that's why this whole discussion is absurd. these are former front-line c.i.a. officers and front-line special operations soldiers, and they obviously have a greater right than those of us who didn't put our lives on the line to defend the constitution, to exercise their first amendment right, which is what they are doing. we are not talking about keeping the killing of osama bin laden a secret, we are talking about the fact that seal team 6 was identified, that the commanding admiral was identified, that their home base was identified. that the news media was in a bar that they frequent in virginia beach talking about where you can find them. we are not talking about osama bin laden first and foremost, we are talking about a whole range of other top secret on going

highly classified counterterrorism operations like a saudi national we had infiltrate on the arabian peninsula who was feeding us information about bombs. >> but the point you're missing is first, seal team 6 has had a web page on wikipedia since 2004. the navy seals participated in a movie called "act of value or" this year. as for the saudi gentleman, who has been detained by the pakistanis, the pakistanis launched their own investigation and it was the pakistanis who leaked that information, not the president of the united states. megyn: what you guys are having is a debate about the very issues that these seals are raising. they have their opinion, and then you have your opinions. and the question is whether these guys should be allowed to express their opinions. and the white house calls it swift boat 2.0? general dempsey doesn't think much of it.

really should we be pushing back on the navy seals who want to say what they want to say in. >> i'm not going to say they shouldn't -- >> quickly i'm going to take a break and go back -- >> they shouldn't holdout the indicia of the military when they do say it. everybody has a right to say anything they want politically in this country. but i think they are misleading. megyn: hold there, we'll be right back after this break.

megyn: chris plant, i was going to let you take it about whether these guys should have the right to offer their opinion. >> well, i think it's outrage just to suggest otherwise. i mean obviously it's true. but i covered the military for a decade, and the intelligence community, and i know a thing or two about this. while you're in uniform you're not invited to participate in political activities. these are foamer military and

former c.i.a. people, but they are also representing those who are still in uniform and those we are asking to go once again into the breach. and more importantly, perhaps, the rest of us are put in greater danger. your grandmother is in greater danger when we give away national security secrets about ongoing counterterrorism operations that are still in the works, that are still in process. and we are all in greater danger. hing for a second.he swift swift boating the term is a term used by democrats that refers to truths that democrats don't want you to hear. everything that the swift boat veterans for truth said about john kerry was true. there was a one hundred thousand dollars reward for anyone that could disprove any fact and it was never collected on. >> none of it was true and nothing that these guys are saying has any basis or any real facts. adadmiral mcraven has denounced what they are said. they said the president was very abg t*euf in the plannin active

in the plank and decision making of this. this the seals had died in pakistan we would be blaming president obama, including myself by the way, we would be blaming him for what happened here. he does deserve some of the credit. most of what they say if not all what they say about this raid in this ad is completely false. there is no evidence to prove that the president or anybody on his team leaked anything. megyn: necessity said the president took too much credit for the operation, how the intelligence predated him, how it was a group effort. they thought he was too much in the first person on that victory. i asked this guy, one of the former navy seals, ben smith was his name. he came on the program last week, before the president had commented on this on camera, and i asked him, is this just a group of republican guys who don't like the president trying to slam on him? what say you? and here is what he told me. >> when we are out there, whether it's a republican or a democrat with me on the field of battle, or doing a mission, if it's leaked to the enemy that we

are going to be there, or how we're going to do it, we both die just the same, so it is -- americans die. and if stuff is leaked terror comes to the united states and american citizens die. megyn: chris plant is the president out there on a limb saying, and i quote, i don't take these folks too seriously. >> i thought honestly it was despicable. attacked them. he was completely dismissive of these people who are seals and c.i.a. officers, calling them names, oh, no, tea party, and oh, a birther. he seeks to discredit them and smear them. >> what they are is they are being used by republicans who wish to defeat the president. >> oh, please, they speak for themselves and they think for themselves. >> chris, they are not funding themselves. where are they getting their money from? >> george soros i guess. >> it's from republican groups that wish to take down the president. megyn: ben smith spoke to this

and said this is from the heart but was funded by somebody else. i've got to leave it at that. always a pleasure. a casino new suing some gamblers who won more than a million bucks at the casino. what is up with that? the casino doesn't really blame the players, it blames its own cards. you are not going to believe today's "kelly's court." plus, white house correspondent for abc news getting attention today after saying the media is letting this country down by not asking enough questions about the economy, and by instead chasing stories that are at best temporary distractions. we'll take a fair & balanced look at that. >> i think the destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news media makes it harder to govern this country, harder to attract decent people to run for public office, and i am appalled that you would begin a presidential debate on a topic like that.

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>> s you now your e wife gave an interview to abc news and "the washington post" and this story has gone viral on the internet. she said you came to her in 1999 at a time when you were having an affair, she says you asked her sir to enter into a open marriage. would you like to take some time to respond to that? >> no, but i will. [applause]

>> i think the destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news media makes it harder to govern this country, harder to attract decent people to run for public office, and i am appalled that you would begin a presidential debate on a topic like that. [cheers and applause] megyn: that was newt gingrich, one of the first to challenge the media coverage of the 2012 presidential race, but he of course was not the last. now this issue is getting new attention. because abc news' white house correspondent jay tapper brought up the same concern in an interview with laura ingram on her television show suggesting that the media may be failing this country by not pushing harder on issues like the economy. here is what he said. >> the bottom line was, it's the number one issue on the minds of voters, a lot of people are hurting out there, unemployment is 8.3%, thattes that doesn't

even take into account the under employed. i was surprised that there wasn't more of a list of things that he would have liked to have had accomplished especially begin that this is the number one issue. megyn: is the media really chasing the wrong stories? joining me now, bret baier anchor of "special report" right here on fnc and dana perino, cohost of "the five" and former spokesperson under president bush. >> and with bret. megyn: bret was giving dana a hard time a few short years ago. now look at them they seem to get along. let me start with you, dana. she is actually sitting right here, but it's very awkward when we have one on satellite and one on set. is he right? is the media focusing on the minutia and not the big issues and if so why? >> i think that they know that they are all chasing rabbits. it is hard to cover the unemployment rate every day because it doesn't change that much. there is not that much

difference. you can ask every day like they did when the iraq war was going terribly in 2005 and 2006 every single day the reporters would say, what are you going to do now? what are you going to do today? until president bush did the surge then you had a six-month lag time and it was hard to show any progress. at least we had nothing to point to that there was something coming. when it comes to the economy everybody seems to have just pushed it all off until after the election, but it is the number one issue on minds of voters. i think the selfreflection by reporters which happens a lot is probably well worth them taking a little bit of a moment to selfcheck and see if they are doing the right thing. megyn: you know, bret at the white house press conference president obama hadn't given a news conference in months. he shows up the other day and the first question is about this congressman akin and his comments about rape and what is legitimate rape. that was a big news story for the week and the day. should sh that have been the

lead question, and does jake tapper have a point that we get wrapped up too much in day-to-day issues instead of the substantive issues. >> jake is a friend of mine. he was speaking out of frustration. as dana pointed out it is like chasing rabbits, that the media is kind of like grey hounds going after the rabbit on a stick. both campaigns do it. they try to put that rabbit out there for the day trying to steer the day's events by what each candidate or the president is doing and saying. and they throw out little tidbits, and if they are successful the grey hounds follow the rabbit and it ends up into a lead story on some network newscast. to jake's point is that there are so much huge issues in this election. it's like drinking from a fire hose, you have so much to choose from that are big issues, that it's sometimes frustrating when as a group the media focuses on smallish use. megyn: and to his credit at the

press conference when it went to jake tapper he asked the president about afghanistan and syria, both serious situations. go ahead, dana. >> the other thing jake talked about was looking back at 2008, and he said that he did not think that the media had done a good enough job. megyn: let's listen to what he said on that store. >> we are spending a lot of times in the last new weeks, those of us in the political world, political journalists and also politicians talking about things other than the economy, so, yeah, i mean it's unfortunate. a lot of people are hurting out there, i'd like to see more action taken, and more emphasis given to this issue. i have said before that i, you know, i said that i thought the media helped tipped the scales. i didn't think the coverage in 2008 was especially fair to either hillary clinton or john mccain. megyn: certainly the hillary campaign felt that way.

in fact i was with a prominent democrat not too long ago who said the only person who gave hillary a fair shot was at fox. if you look back at that campaign one of the things jake talks business the subl h subtlety, the perhaps, the placement of the articles in the paper. the things they chose not to talk about. obama's senate records was one of the ones. hillary's campaign could not get reporters to get excited about that. i think about the irrational exuberance about the housing market and the bubble. everybody looks back and says, how could we have thought these prices would rise, that was crazy. it looks like media is looking back at 2008 about their irrational exuberance and saying, wait maybe he wasn't as great as we thought he was and we should have been tougher on him then. megyn: why do we do it? i've commented on this again. a lot of people talk about cable news. you have to fill 24-7 with news. you can't do 24-7 worth of medicare discussions. no one is going to watch that.

>> jim angle can. >> they can watch that on c span if they want to watch that. and they don't with all due difference to our friends at c span. we have to fill the airwaves. the nightly news ka*s are al newscasts are all over these minor stories as well. why are we doing it. >> you've touched on some of it. some of it is ratings, some of it is analysis of what they think they want to have people watch, what will get eyeballs. i do think that sometimes the media in a broad sense goes to the easy story. there are a lot of great reporters out there who really put their heart and soul into things. i'm going to tell jake the next time i see him that we spent a segment analyzing his interview on the radio, and that this is good. but to his credit, his questions were on the economy, and his second question was on afghanistan. 2,000 soldiers have died in gans, one thousand of them have died in the last 27 months.

how much have we talked about afghanistan as a group in the media? how much do we invest time in that? people in polls don't want to talk about it. but is that something that we should not be doing? no we should be covering it. megyn: we are talking about congressman akin who said this ridiculous remark that's got even criticized from both sides from everybody across the board, right, on rape and legitimate rape and that is a story obviously, the guy is running for senate it could affect the balance of power. is it as big a story as it has been played this week, or and i'll put this one to you, dana, is it something that plays into a narrative, that people in particular who don't like republicans or their stance on social issues are using to try to create a narrative and many in the mainstream media go along? >> yeah, the media has been akin's best friend. he's everywhere. he's on all the network morning shows. the show now like -- i think he's delusional. and if you look at somebody sort

of self-destructing that is interesting. the top selling magazines in america, "people magazine" easier to sell something like that. people like that. it does get tiring the same things about war and the economy. the white house press core has not done in my opinion a good enough job of fighting for their access. one of the things das things that the press secretary does is protect the president. and the second thing is protecting access to the president and the rest of the government. you have to fight that access all the time, that's how our system works. i found in the white house briefing room i think the reporters that worked there tried to be very fair. >> even bret? >> even br erbs t. evened henry. you remember those days, bret. megyn: she didn't liked henry when shy was the white house press secretary. he gave her jazz the same as he's giving it to president obama and jay carney. >> that is a good thing. megyn: we always say we know

we've done our job when we get complaints from both sides. it's an interesting discussion, one we'll be sure to continue going onto november. dana thank you. bret, see you tonight. >> you got it, this weekend too down in tampa. megyn: bret and i have a lot of work to do. >> we'll see you there too. "the five" is going to be there. megyn: maybe we'll swing by, bret and make it the seven. you don't want us. thank you, buddy. br erbs t has a great show coming up tonight at 6:00pm. one thing he never has is "kelly's court." today's is a real great one. a group of gamblers win is 1.5 million bucks at a casino. now the casino is suing them demanding the money back even though it admits that they didn't cheat. the casino blames its card dealer. and we will explain next in "kelly's court."

♪ luck be a lady tonight. ♪ luck be a lady tonight.

♪ you've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away. megyn: "kelly's court" is back in session. on the docket today the $1.5 million fight over unshuffled casino cards. it all started at the golden nugget casino in atlantic city, the same cards dealt over and over and over again to a group of folks playing bac bacarrat. they were winning big on the cards, 41 times in a row for a total of $1.5 million. they won over and over 41 times. casino security started to

gather around the table convinced they were witnessing a heist but they continue figure out how the players were doing it. now the golden nugget says it knows how it happened. the cards, it says, were defective, delivered from a card manufacturer unshuffled. they are supposed to come shuffled and put into play without being checked. the casino is now seeing the manufacturer, but it's also suing the gamblers saying they are not entitled to their $1.5 million because the odds were not fair to the casino. the players say they did nothing wrong and they want to cash in. oh, this is a good case. joining me now former prosecutor now defense attorney arthur aidala, former prosecutor now defense attorney jona spilbor. your fake client is the casino. how on earth does it claim it's not to blame, and the gamblers are to blame for winning? >> i don't want to take the air

out of the balloon here, but i think it's a procedural issue that they have to sue the players in their real suit, which is against gemaco, that is the company that they paid to deliver pre shuffled cards. that is where the deep pockets lie, that is the company that didn't -- it's a breach of contract. it's a very simple, legal principle. i contract you to deliver something to me and you do it wrong. so if dell computers contracts with intel to give them a right computer chip and they put it in the computer and ship them out and a thousand computers are defective not because dell did something wrong but intel did something wrong. the real suit is against intel. megyn: how do they blame this on the card manufacturer when the dealer could have stopped it and noticed it, and even if he didn't on the first, you know, couple of deals, 41 deals into it? >> right. megyn: he continue have stopped

and said, the same hands have come up, the same cards, in the same order, over and over and over -- at what point did it stop being the card manufacturer's fault? >> yeah, probably at hand number three or four. i think what arthur is really trying to say is his client had no case against the players here. if the three of us were sitting around a table, guys and this was happening to us, save my seat because i'm taking out a second mortgage and going home happy. i don't blame these players for what they did at all. yeah, 41 times. here is another interesting thing. when the security team descended upon the table convinced that there was cheating going on, why didn't they see what was going on and stop it before the 41st hand? they wasted time chasing cheaters that weren't cheating. this has nothing to do with the players, everything to do with the casino. megyn: can somebody explain bacarrat? bill: no, but i will tell you this. we are all talking about if we were there what we would have done. just so people know, today in

federal court, actually yesterday in federal court a federal court judge has now ruled that texas holdem is a game of skill not a game of chance, which means it takes a degree of skill, it's not just luck to win this thing. the same thing kind of holds true, if i was at that table and playing i probably won't even realize what was going on. megyn: they realized something, apparently they kept betting and betting and betting and raised their bets. they began at $10 a hand and raised their bets to $10,000. the players knew they were either on the roll of their lives or some sort of funny business was working in their favor. did they have an obligation, jona, to say, you know what, fair is fair, if you, casino, were cheating us, we'd stop this game, as it turns out we're cheating you inadvertently, we agree we don't deserve the money. >> no obligations on the players whatsoever. if they are sitting in front of a slot machine and that slot machine keeps pouring out coins there is no obligation there either. the one tiny thing that the

casino might have is that they are claiming the players were putting up bets that were beyond what the upper limit was, so maybe -- megyn: the casino didn't have to take it. >> yes they did. megyn: we'll hold you over. next we'll talk about the incredible behavior by the casino after the players won the money, you will not believe this and it's next. pitching is 100% mental. you have to be locked in. you know i've been out there trying to focus with a headache and i can't do my job. bayer headache relief takes care of my pain fast. it definitely works for me. helps me get back to doing my thing. [ male announcer ] try the dual action formula of bayer headache relief.

tkpwaogin googling baccarat. it's a mixture between blackjack and craps from the sound of it. the other problem your fake client has, arthur is that the plaintiffs, not only are they khraeuping you need t claiming that you need to pay us our $1.5 million, golden nugget. they claim discrimination because of hire chinese heritage, they were abused by

the casino, being held in a hotel room held for eight hours. sofd up against the wall, yelled at by the casino personnel and all of that could cost the casino even more money if it is proven to be true. >> my guess is that they were conducting an investigation at that point, figuring out if there was really some sort of a card counting scam, or pictures, or microphones, and ear plugs, that kind of a scam. their answer is that the allegations are completely untrue, that they didn't do that with anyone. these guys, the casino players, they do have a whole bunch of chips right now that the casino is refusing to cash in. megyn: that's right. the casino let nine of the players cash out about $560,000 worth of chips, but the other players still have $977,000 in chips that have yet to get cashed. the casino won't do it. they have some of the dough, not the rest of the dough. you mentioned this point earlier, there is a rule in new

jersey that apparently requires, a state gambling regulation that all casinos have to use the same oddfair odds to both side. the casino is saying the odds were not fair to us, due to the card manufacturer over there. can they make that case. >> that is a stretch. liability is on the card manufacturer that didn't pre shuffle not on the players. while this might be a legit rule they have the wrong defendant. >> why didn't they pre shuffle. >> number one they should have. number two, do you know how many layers of insurance companies are involved? they are self-insured. if their dealer makes a huge mistake like this they will be covered. megyn: if the casino gets out of it saying the cards were not shuffled, can you imagine is any win valid now? is the casino going to fall back on all the time, hey, it wasn't my fault, they weren't shoving.

>> don't forget the eye in the sky sees it all. >> i cry foul. we'll be right back with an update on isaac heading for florida.