chances are, you're not made of money, so don't overpay for motorcycle insurance. geico, see how much you could save. >> megyn: things are getting exciting folks. it's about to begin. >> megyn: welcome, everybody, from hofstra university from hempstead, new york. the debate is about to begin in seconds. i'm megyn kelly live inside the debate hall in hempstead. bret? >> bret: i'm bret baier inside the spin room where the campaigns come after the debate to convince you their side won. what will be interesting tonight will be to see the demeanor of the two men. president obama clearly wants to

make an impact after what both sides believed was a lackluster performance in his first debate. even the president said so himself. the challenge will be somewhere between his first performance and vice president biden's performance, finding that sweet spot, wher whether he can do itd for governor romney whetherel capitalize on what was a good run the first time around. >> megyn: a word about the audience here, the town hall participants. there are some 80 there. they all submitted their questions. candy crowley selected the ones that will be used tonight. right now 80 nervous souls out there, 82 if you count the candidates, because they don't know which ones with have been chosen. they'll learn as we learn who will stand up and question the next president of the united states. candy crowley from cnn. >> good evening from hofstra university in hempstead, new york. i'm candy crowley from cnn

"state of the union." we're here for the second presidential debate, a town hall sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. the gallup organization chose 82 uncommitted voters from the new york area. their questions will drive the night. my goal is to give the conversation direction and to ensure questions get answered. the questions are known to me and my team only. neither the commission, nor the candidates have seen them. i hope to get to as many questions as possible. because i'm the optimistic sort, i'm the candidates will oblige by keeping their answers concise and on point. each candidate has as much as two minutes to respond to a common question and there will be a two-minute follow-up. the audience in the hall has agreed to be polite, attentive, no cheering or boo or outbursts of any sort. we will set aside that agreement just this once to welcome president obama and governor mitt romney. [applause]

[cheers and applause] >> gentlemen, thank you both for joining us tonight. folks have been waiting to talk to you. i want to get right to it. governor romney, as you know, you won the coin toss, so the first question will go to you. i want to turn to a first-time voter, jeremy epstein, who has a question for you. >> mr. president, governor romney, as a 20-year-old college student, all i hear from professors, neighbors and others, is that when i graduate i will have little clans to get employment. what can you say to reassure me, but more importantly my parents, that i'll be able to sufficiently support myself after i graduate? >> thank you, jeremy.

i appreciate your question. thank you for being here this evening. and to all of those from nassau county, thank you for your time. thank you to hofstra university and to candy crowley for organizing and leading this event. thank you, mr. president, also for being part of this debate. your question is one that's being asked by college kids all over this country. ai was in pennsylvania with someone that just graduated. this was in philadelphia. she said, i've got my degree, i can't find a job. i've got three part-time jobs. they're just barely enough to pay for my food and pay for an apartment. i can't begin to pay back my student loans. we have to do two things. we have to make it easier for kids to afford college, and make sure when they get out of college there's a job. when i was governor of massachusetts to get a high school degree you had to pass an exam. if you graduated in the top quarter of your class, we gave you a john and abigail adams scholarship, four years tuition free to the college of your choice in massachusetts. it's a public institution. i want to make sure we keep our

pell grant program growing. we'll also have our loan program so that people are able to afford school, but the key thing is to make sure you can get a job when you get out of school. what's happened over the last four years has been very, very hard for america's young people. i want you to be able to get a job. i know what it takes to get this economy going. with half of college kids graduating this year, without a college -- excuse me -- without a job, and without a college-level job that's unacceptable. likewise, you got more and more debt. so more debt and less jobs. i'm going to change that. i know what it takes to create good jobs again. i know what it takes to make sure that you have the kind of opportunity you deserve. kids across this country are going to recognize we're bringing back an economy. it's not going to be like the last four years. the middle class has been crushed over last four years and jobs have been scarce. i'll bring them back. when do you graduate? 2014. when you come out in 2014, i

presume i'll be president, i'm going to make sure you get a job. thanks, jeremy. yeah, you bet. >> mr. president. jeremy, first of all, your future is bright. the fact that you're making an investment in higher education is critical, not just to you, but to the entire nation. now the most important thing we can do is to make sure that we are creating jobs in this country, but not just jobs, good-paying jobs, one that can support a family. what i want to do is build on the 5 million jobs we've created over the last 30 months in the private sector alone. there are a bunch of things that we can do to make sure your future is bright. number one, i want to build manufacturing jobs in this country again. you know, when governor romney said we should let detroit go bankrupt, i said we're going to bet on american workers and american auto industry, and it's come surging back. i want to do that in industries, not just in detroit, but all across the country. that means we change our tax

code so we're giving incentives to companies investing here in the united states and creating jobs here. it also means we're helping them, and small businesses, to export all around the world, in new markets. number two, we've got to make sure that we have the best education system in the world. the fact that you're going to college is great, but i want everybody to get a great education. we've worked hard to make sure that student loans are available for folks like you, but i also want to make sure that colleges are offering slots for workers to get retrained for the jobs out there right now, the jobs of the future. number three, we've got to control our own energy. you know, not only oil and natural gas, which we've been investing in, but also we've got to make sure we're building the energy sources of the further. not just thinking about next year, but 10 years from now, 20 years from now. that's why we invest in solar, wind and biofuels, energy-efficient cars. we've got to reduce our deficit, but in a balanced way. asking the wealthy to pay more,

along with cuts, to invest in education like yours. let's take the money we've been spending on war over the last decade to rebuild america. roads, bridges, schools. we do those things, not only is your future going to be bright, but america's future will be bright as well. >> let me ask you for a more immediate answer. i'll begin with mr. romney. just quickly, what can you do? we're looking at a situation where 40% of the unemployed have been unemployed for six months or more. they don't have the two years that jeremy has. what about those long-term unemployed who need a job right now? >> well, what you're seeing in this country is 23 million people struggling to find a job. and a lot of them, as you say, candy, have been out of work for a long, long, long time. the president's policies have been exercised over the last four year, and they haven't put americans back to work. we have fewer people working today we had when the president took office. if the unemployment -- the unemployment rate was 7.8% when

he took office. it's 7.8% now. if you calculated that unemployment rate, taking back the people who dropped out of the workforce, it would be 10.7%. we have not made the progress we need to make to put people back to work. that's why i put out a five-point plan that gets america 12 million new jobs in four years and rising take-home pay. it's going to help jeremy get a job when he comes out of school. it's going to help people across the country that are unemployed right now. and one thing that the president said, which i want to make sure that we understand. he said that i said we should take detroit bankrupt. that's right. my plan was to have the company go through bankruptcy, like 7-eleven did, and macy's, and continental airlines and come out congresser. i know he keeps saying, you wanted to take detroit back. the president took detroit bankrupt. you took general motors bankrupt. you took chrysler bankrupt. so when you say that i wanted to take the auto industry bankrupt, you actually did. and i think it's important to know that that was a process

that was necessary to get those companies back on their feet so they could start hiring more people. that was precisely what i recommended and ultimately what happened. >> let me give the president a chance. go ahead. >> candy, what governor romney said just isn't true. he wanted to take them into bankruptcy without providing them any way to stay open. we would have lost a million jobs. don't take my word for it. take the executives at gm and chrysler, some of whom are republicans, may even support governor romney. they'll tell you his prescription wasn't going to work. governor romney says he's got a five-point plan. governor romney doesn't have a five-point plan. he has a one-point plan. that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules. that's been his philosophy in the private sector. that's been his philosophy as governor. that's been his philosophy as a presidential candidate. you can make a lot of money and pay lower tax rates than somebody who makes a lot less. you can ship jobs overseas and

get tax breaks for it. you can invest in a company, bankrupt it, and lay off the workers, strip away their pensions, and you still make money. that's exactly the philosophy that we've seen in place for the last decade. that's what's been squeezing middle-class families. and we have fought back for four years to get out of that mess. the last thing we need to do is to go back to the same policies that got us there. >> mr. president, the next question is going to be for you here. mr. r, governor romney, there will be plenty of choices to go on. >> that detroit answer, the rest of the answer, with a off the mark. >> okay. you'll certainly have lots of time coming up. i want to move you on to something that sort of i guess connected to cars here -- sort of is connected to cars here. we want a ask from phillip surcola.

>> your energy secretary, steven chu, has been on record three times stating it's not policy of his department to help lower gas prices. do you agree with secretary chu, that this is not the job of the energy department? >> the most important thing we can do is to make sure we can control our own energy. since i've been president we've increased oil production to the highest level in 16 years. natural gas production is the highest it's been in decades. we have seen increases in coal production and dol coal employm. i've always said we've got to look to the future. that's why we doubled fuel efficiencies in cars. in the next decade, any car you buy, you'll end up going twice as far on a gallon of gas.

we've increased solar, wind and biofuels, contributing to us lowering our oil imports to the lowest levels in 16 years. now i want to build on that. that means, yes, we still continue to open up new areas for drilling. we continue to make it a priority for us to go after natural gas. we've got potentially 600,000 jobs and 100 years' worth of energy right beneath our feet with natural gas. we can do it in an environmentally sound way. but we've also got to continue to figure out how we have efficient energy, because ultimately that's how we're going to reduce demand and that's what's going to keep gas prices lower. now, governor romney will say he's got an all of the above plan, but basically his plan is to let the oil companies write8d the energy policies. khwu@ñc7&5z3q 0?%íx]q m:(i

tomorrow or the next day and not thinking about 10 years from now, we're not going to control our own economic future, because china, germany, they're making these investments. the future. i expect them to be in the united states, helping jeremy get a job, and ensure you're not paying as much for gas. >> governor, on the subject of gas prices. >> well, let's look at the president's policies, all right, as opposed to the rhetoric. we've had four years of policies being played out. the president is right in terms of the additional oil production, but none of it came on federal land. as a matter of fact, oil production is down 14% this year on federal land, and gas production is down 9%. why? because the president cut in half the number of licenses and permits for drilling on federal lands and in federal waters. so where did the increase come from? well, a lot of it came from the

range in north dakota. what i was participation there? the administration brought a criminal action against the people drilling up there for oil, this massive new resource we have. what was the cost? 20 or 25 birds were killed, and they brought out a migratory bird act to go after them on a criminal basis. look, i want to make sure we use our oil, our coal, our gas, our nuclear, our renewables. i believe very much in our renewable capabilities, ethanol, wind, solar, an important part of our energy mix, but what we don't need is having the president keeping us from taking advantage of oil, coal and gas. this has not been mr. oil or mr. gas or mr. coal. talk to the people that are working in those industries. i was in coal country. people grab my arms and say, please, save my job. the head of the epa said you can't build a coal plant. you'll virtually -- it's virtually impossible given our regulations. when the president ran for office, he said if you build a coal plant, you can go ahead, but you'll go bankrupt.

that's not the right course for america. let's take advantage of the energy resources we have as well as the energy sources for the future. if we do that, if we do what i'm planning on doing, which is getting us energy independent -- north america energy independence within eight years -- you'll see manufacturing jobs come back, because our energy is low cost. they're already beginning to come back, because of our abundant energy. i'll get america and north america energy independent. i'll do it by more drilling, more permits and licenses. we'll bring that pipeline in from canada. how in the world the president said no to that pipeline i will never know. this is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of america. that's what i'm going to do. >> mr. president, let me just see if i can move you to the gist of this question, which is are we looking at the new normal? i can tell you that tomorrow morning a lot of people will wake up, fill up, and find that the price of gas is every $4 a

gallon. is it within the purview of the government to bring the prices down or are we looking at the new normal? >> candy, doubt that world demand has gone up, but our production has gone up and we're using oil more efficiently. very little of what governor romney just said is true. we've opened up public lands. we're actually drilling more on public lands than in the previous administration. the previous president was an oil man. and natural gas isn't just appearing magically. we're encouraging it and working with the industry. and when i hear governor romney say he's a big coal guy, keep in mind when -- governor, when you were governor of massachusetts, you stood in front of a coal plant and pointed at it and said, this plant kills, and took great pride in shutting it down. now suddenly you're a big champion of coal. so what i've tried to do is be consistent. with respect to something like coal, we made the largest

investment in clean coal technology to make sure that even as we're producing more coal we're producing it cleaner and smarter. same thing with oil, same thing with natural gas. the proof is our oil imports are down to the lowest levels in 20 years. oil production is up. natural gas production is up. most importantly we're also starting to build cars that are more efficient. that's creating jobs. that means those cars can be exported, because that's the demand around the world, and it also means it will save money in your pocketbook. that's the strategy you need on all of the above strategy and that's what we'll do in the next four years. >> but that's not what you've done in thes last four years. that's the problem. in the last four years you cut permits and licenses on federal land and federal waters in half. >> not true, governor romney. >> so how much did you cut them by? >> not true. >> how much did you cut licenses and permits on federal land and federal waters? >> governor romney, here's what we did. there were a whole bunch of oil

companies -- >> new orleans. i had a question. the question was, how much did you cut them by? >> i'm happy to answer the question. >> all right. and it is? >> here's what happened. you had a whole bunch of oil companies who had leases on public lands that they weren't using. so what we said was, you can't just sit on this for 10, 20, 30 years, decide when you want to drill, when you want to produce, when it's most profitable for you. these are public lands. so if you want to drill on public lands, you use it or you lose it. >> okay. now that's -- >> we took away those leases, and we're now re-letting them to make a profit. >> and production on government land is down. >> no, it isn't. >> production on government land of oil is down 14%. and production of gas is down 9%. >> it's just not true. >> it's absolutely true. look, there's no question that people recognize that we've not produced more oil and gas on federal lands and federal waters. and coal production is not up. coal jobs are not up.

i was just at a coal facility where some 1200 people lost their jobs. the right course for america is to have a true all of the above policy. i don't think anyone really believes that you're a person who's going to be pushing for oil and gas and coal. you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking. the answer is i don't believe people believe that's the case because -- that wasn't a question. that was a statement. i don't think the american people believe that. i will fight for oil, coal and natural gas. the proof of whether a strategy is working or not is what the price is that you're paying at the pump. if you're paying less than you paid a year or two ago, why, then, the strategy is working, but you're paying more. when the president took office the price of gasoline in nassau county was $1.86 a gallon. now it's $4 a gallon. the price of electricity is up. if the policies are working, the cost of energy would come down. i'll fight to get america energy secure.

part of that is bringing in a pipeline of oil from canada, taking advantage of the oil and coal we have here, drilling offshore in alaska, drilling offshore in virginia where the people want it. those things will get us the energy we need. >> mr. president, could you address -- because we did finally get to gas prices here -- could you address what the governor said, which is if your energy policy was working, the price of gasoline would not be $4 a gallon here. is that true? >> think about what the governor just said. he said when i took office the price of gasoline was $1.80, $1.86. was is that? because the economy was on the verge of collapse. we were about to go through the worst recession since the great depression. as a consequence of some of the same policies that governor romney is now promoting. so it's conceivable that governor romney could bring down gas prices because with his policies we might be back in that same mess. what i want to do is to create an economy that is strong and at

the same time produce energy. with respect to this pipeline that governor romney keeps on talking about, we've created -- we've built enough pipeline to wrap around the entire earth once. so i'm all for pipelines. i'm all for oil production. what i'm not for is us ignoring the other half of the equation. so, for example, on wind energy, when governor romney says these are imaginary jobs, when you've got thousands of people right now in iowa, right now in colorado, who are working, creating windpower with good-paying manufacturing jobs, and the republican senator in that -- in iowa is all for it, providing tax credits to help this work, and governor romney says i'm opposed, i'd get rid of it. that's not an energy strategy for the future. we need to win that futures. i intend to win it as president of the united states. >> i got to move you along. >> he got the first question, so i get the last sequester on that

one. >> actually in the follow-up it doesn't work like that. >> actually -- >> i'm going to give you a chance here, i promise you i'm going to. the next question is for you, so if you want to continue on, but i don't want to leave these guys sitting here -- >> candy, i don't have a policy of stopping wind jobs in iowa. they're not phantom jobs. they're real jobs. >> okay. >> i appreciate wind jobs in iowa and across our country. i appreciate the jobs in coal and oil and gas. i'm going to make sure that taking advantage of our energy resources will bring back manufacturing to america. we're going to get through a very aggressive energy policy 3.5 million more jobs in this country. it's critical to our future. >> we're going to move along to taxes. >> candy, i'm used to being interrupted. >> we'll move you along to taxes over here and all the folks you from mary palano. >> hi, mary. >> governor romney, you have stated that if you're elected president you would plan to

reduce the tax rates for all the tax brackets, and that you would eliminate some deductions in order to make you know for the losses in,[ro revenue. concerning these various deductions,3r the mortgage-nt deduction,7ú the charitable deduction, the child tax credit, and also the -- oh, what's that other credit? i forgot. >> you're doing great. >> oh, i remember. the education credits which are important to me, because i have children in college. what would be your position on those things, important for the middle class? >> thank you very much. let me tell you, you're absolutely right about part of that, which is i want to bring the rates down. i want to simplify the tax code, and i want to get middle income tataxpayers to have lower taxes. the raise i want middle income taxpayers to have lower taxes is because middle income taxpayers

you've seen as middle income people inht1eóme this country s go down $3,400 a family even as gasoline prices have gone up $2,000. health insurance premiums up $2,500. food prices up, utility prices up. america have been crushed over the last four years. i want to get relief to middle income families. that's part one. how about deductions? i'm going to bring rates down across the board for everybody, but i'm going to limit deductions and exemptions and credits particularly for people at the high-end. i won't have people at the high-end paying less than they're paying now. the top 5% of taxpayers will continue to pay 60% of the income tax the nation collects. that will stay the same. middle income people will get a tax break. in terms of bringing down deductions, one way of doing that, i'll pick a number, $25,000 of deductions in

credits, and you can decides which one to i couldn't see, use them as part of filling the bucket, if you will, n deductions, but your rate comes down and the burden comes down for one more reason. that is every middle income taxpayer no longer will pay any tax on interest, dividends or capital gains. no tax on your savings. that makes life a lot easier. if you're getting interest from a bank, a statement from a mutual fund, any other kind of investments you have, you don't have to worry about filing taxes on that, because there will be no taxes for anybody making $200,000 a year and less on your interest, dividends, and capital gains. why am i lowering taxes on the middle class? because under the last four years they've been buried. i want to help people in the middle class. i will not -- i will not under any circumstances reduce the share being paid by the highest

income taxpayers. i will not under any circumstances increase taxes on the middle class. the president's spending -- the president's borrowing, will cause this nation to raise taxes on the american people. not just at the high-end. a recent study has shown the people in the middle class will see taxes about $fours,000 higher as a result of the borrowing and spending of this administration. i will not let that happen. i will reduce the tax burden on middle income families. it's going to help those families and create incentives to start growing jobs again in this country. >> thanks, governor. >> thank you. >> my philosophy on taxes has been simple. that is i want to give middle-class families and folks striving to get in the middle class some relief, because they have been hit hard over the last decade, over the last 15, over the last 20 years. so four years ago i stood on a stage just like this one, actually it was a haul town hald

said i would cut taxes for middle-class families. that's what i've done by $2600. i said i would cut taxes for businesses, and we've cut them 18 times. i want to continue those tax cuts for middle-class families and for small businesses. but what i've also said, if we're serious about reducing the deficit, if this is genuinely a moral obligation to the next generation, then in addition to some tough spending cuts, we've also got to make sure that wealthy do a little bit more. so what i've said is, your first $250,000 worth of income, no change. that means 98% of american families, 97% of small businesses, they will not see a tax increase. now. the only reason it's not happening is because governor romney's allies in congress have held the 98% hostage because they want tax breaks for the top

2%. but what i've also said is for above $250,000, we can go back to the tax rates we had when we created 23 million new jobs. that's part of what took us from deficits to surplus. it will be good for our economy. and it will be good for job creation. now governor romney has a different philosophy. he was on "60 minutes" just two weeks ago, and he was asked, is it fair for somebody like you making $20 million a year to pay a lower tax rate a nurse or a bus driver, somebody making $50,000 a year? he said, yes, i think that's fair. not only that, he said, i think that's what grows the economy. i fundamentally disagree with that. i think what grows the economy is when you get that tax credit that we put in place for your kids going to college. i think that grows the economy. i think what grows the economy

is when small businesses get a tax credit for hiring veterans who fought for our country. that grows our economy. we just have a different theory. when governor romney stands here, after a year of campaigning, when during a republican primary he stood on stage and said, i'm going to give tax cuts -- than he didn't say tax rate cuts -- he said tax cuts, to everybody, including the top 1%, you should believe him, because that's been his history. and that's exactly the kind of top-down economics that's not going to work if we want a strong middle-class and an economy that's thriving for everybody. >> governor romney, i'm sure you've got a reply there. [laughter] >> you're absolutely right. you heard what i said about my tax plan. the top 5% will continue to pay 60% as they do today. i'm not looking to cut taxes for wealthy people. i am looking to cut taxes for middle income people. and why do i want to bring rates down? and at the same time lower exemptions and deductions, particularly for people at the high-end?

because if you bring rates down, it makes it easier for small business to keep more of their capital and hire people, and for me this is about jobs. i want to get america's economy going again. 54% of america's workers work in businesses that are taxed as individuals. so when you bring those rates down, those small businesses are able to keep more money and hire more people. for me, i look at what's happened in the last four years, and say this is has been a disappointment. we can do better than this. we don't have to settle for -- how many months? 43 months with unemployment above 8%. 23 million americans struggling to find a good job right now. there are 3.5 million more women living in poverty today than when the president took office. we don't have to live like this. we can get this economy going again. my five-point plan does it. energy independence for north america in five years, than up more trade, particularly in latin america, cracking down on

china when they cheat, getting a prepared budget, fixing our training programs for our workers, and finally championing small businesses. i want to help small businesses grow and thrive. i know how to make that happen. i spent my life in the private sector. i know why jobs come and why they go. they're going now, because of the policies of this administration. >> governor, let me ask the president something about what you just said. the governor says that he's not going to allow the top 5%, i believe is what he said, to have a tax cut, that it will all even out, that what he wants to do is give that tax cut to the middle class. settled? >> no, it's not settled. look, the cost of lowering rates for everybody, across the board, 20%, along with what he also wants to do in terms of eliminating the estate tax, along with what he wants to do in terms of corporates, changes in the tax code, it costs about

$5 trillion. governor romney then also wants to spend $2 trillion on additional military programs even though the military's not asking for them. that's $7 trillion. he also wants to continue the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. that's another trillion dollars. that's $8 trillion. now, what he says is he's going to make sure that this doesn't add to the deficit, and he's going to cut middle-class taxes, but when he's asked how are you going to do, which deductions, which loopholes are you going to close, he can't tell you. the fact that he only has to pay 14% on his taxes when a lot of you are paying much higher, you know, he's already taken that off the board, capital gains are going to continue to be at a low rate, so we're not going to get money that way. we haven't heard from the governor any specifics beyond big bird and eliminating funding

for planned parenthood in terms of how he pays for that. now governor romney was a successful investor. if somebody came to you with a plan that said, here, i want to spend $7 trillion or $8 trillion, and we're going to pay for it, but we can't tell you until maybe after the election how we're going to do it, you wouldn't have taken such a sketchy deal. and neither should you, the american people. because the math doesn't add up. and what's at stake here is one of two things. either, candy, this blows up the deficit, because keep in mind this is just to pay for the additional spending that he's talking about. $7 trillion or $8 trillion, that's before we even get to the deficit we already have. alternatively it has to be paid for not only by closing deductions for wealthy individuals, that will pay for about 4% reduction in tax rates, you'll be paying for it. you'll lose some deductions.

you can't buy this sales pitch. nobody who's looked at it that's serious actually believes it adds up. >> mr. president, let me get the governor in on this. governor, before we get into a vast array of what study says what, if it shouldn't add up, if ugh tax revenueu get in there coming in, if somehow the numbers don't add up, would you be willing to look again at a 20% -- >> well, of course they add up. i was someone who ran businesses for 25 years and balanced the budget. i ran the olympics and balanced the budget. i ran the state of massachusetts as a governor to the extent any governor does and balanced the budget all four years. when we're talking about the math that doesn't add up, how about $4 trillion of deficits over the last four years? $5 trillion. that's math that doesn't add up. we have -- we have a president

talking about someone's plan in a way that's completely foreign to what my real plan is. and then we have his own record, which is we have four consecutive years where he said when he was running for office he would cut the deficit in half. instead he's doubled it. we've gone from $10 trillion of national debt to $16 trillion of national debt. if the president were re-elected we'd go to almost $20 trillion of national debt. this puts us on a road to greece. i know what it takes to balance budgets. i've done it my entire life. so, for instance, when he says, yours is a $5 trillion cut. well, no, it's not, because i'm offsetting some of the reductions, withholding down some of the deductions. >> governor romney, i understand the stakes here, but i will get run out of town if i don't -- >> i just described to you precisely how i'd do it with a single number that people can put -- they can put their

deductions and credits to that -- >> mr. president, we're keeping track, i promise you. mr. president, the next question is for you. >> great. looking forward to it. >> it's katherine fenton who has a question for you. >> in what new ways do you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace, specifically regarding females making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn? >> katherine, this is a great question. you know, i was raised by a single mom who had to put herself through school while looking after two kids. and she worked hard every day and made a lot of sacrifices to make sure we got everything we needed. my grandmother, she started off as a secretary in a bank. she never got a college education. even though she was smart as a whip. she worked her way up to become a vice president of a local bank, but she hit the glass

ceiling. she trained people who would end up become her bosses during the course of her career. she didn't complain. that's not what you did in that generation. and this is one of the reasons why -- one of the first -- the first bill i signed was something called lilly ledbetter bill. it's named after this amazing woman, who had been doing same job as a man for years, found out that she was getting paid less, and the supreme court said that she couldn't bring suit because she should have found out about it earlier. she had no way of finding out about it. we fixed that. that's an example of the kind of advocacy that we need because women are increasingly the breadwinners in the family. this is not just a women's issue. this is a family issue. this is a middle class issue. that's why we've got to fight for it. it also means that we've got to make sure that young people like

yourself are able to afford a college education. earlier governor romney talked about he wants to make pell grants and other education accessible for young people. the truth of the matter is that that's exactly what we've done. we've expanded pell grants for millions of people, including millions of young women, all across the country. we did it by taking $60 billion that was going to banks and lenders as middlemen for the student loan program and we said, let's just cut out the middlemen, give the money directly to students. as a consequence, we've seen millions of young people be able to afford colleges making sure that young women be able to compete in that marketplace, but we have to enforce the laws, which is what we're do, and we've also got to make sure that in every walk of life we do not tolerate discrimination. that's been one of the hallmarks of high administration. i've going to continue to push on this issue for the next four years. >> governor romney, pay equity for women.

>> thank you. important topic. and one which i learned a great deal about, particularly as i was serving as governor of my state, because i had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all the applicants seemed to be men. i went to my staff and i said, how come all the people for the jobs are all men? they said these are the people that have the qualifications. i said, gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified? and so we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us find folks? they brought us binders full of women. i was proud of the fact that after i staffed my cabinet and my senior staff, that the university of new york in albany did a survey of all 50 states and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership than any other state in america. one of the reasons i was able to get so many good women to be part of that team was because of

our recruiting effort, but number two, because i recognized, if you're going to have women in the workforce, sometimes you need to be more flexible. my chief of staff had two kids still in school. she said, i can't here until 7:00 or 8:00 at night. i need to get home at 5:00 to make dinner for my kids, being with them when they get home from school. we said, fine, let's have a flexible schedule so you can having hours that work for you. we'll have to have employers in the new economy, in the economy i'm going to bring to play, that are going to be so anxious to get good workers they're going to be anxious to hire women. in the last four years, women have lost 580,000 jobs. that's the net of what's happened in the last four years. we're still down 580,000 jobs. i mentioned 3.5 million women more now in poverty than four years ago. what we can do to help young women and women of all ages is to have a strong economy, so strong that employers are looking to find good employees,

and bringing them into the workforce, and adapting to a flexible work schedule that gives women the opportunities that they would otherwise not be able to afford. this is what i've done. it's what i look forward to doing. i know what it takes to make an economy work. and i know what a working economy looks like. an economy with 7.8% unemployment is not a real strong economy. an economy that -- that has 23 million people looking for work is not a strong economy. an economy with 50% of kids graduating from college that can't find a job or a college-level job, that's not what we have to have. i'll help women in america get good work by getting a stronger economy and by supporting women in the workforce. >> mr. president y don't you get in on this quickly, please. >> i want to point out when governor romney campaign was asked about the lill lilly ledbr bill, whether he supported it, he said i'll get back to you.

that's not the kind of advocacy that women need in any economy. there's other issues that have a bearing on how women succeed in the workplace. for example, their healthcare. you know, a major difference in this campaign is that governor romney feels comfortable having politicians in washington decide the healthcare choices that women are making. i think that's a mistake. in my healthcare bill, i said insurance companies need to provide contraceptive coverage to everybody who's insured, because this is not just a health issue, it's an economic issue for women. it makes a difference. this is money out of that family's pocket. governor romney not only opposed it, he suggested that in fact employers should be able to make the decision as to whether or not or not a woman gets contraception through her insurance coverage. that's not the kind of advocacy

that women need. when governor romney says that we should eliminate funding for planned parenthood, there are millions of women all across the country who rely on planned parenthood for not just contraceptive case, they rely on it for mammograms, for cervical cancer screenings. that's a pocketbook issue for women and families all across the country. it makes a difference in terms of how well and effectively women are able to work. when we talk about childcare, and the credits that we're providing, that makes a difference in terms of whether they can go out there and earn a living for their family. these are not just women's issues. these are family issues. these are economic issues. and one of the things that makes us grow as an economy is when everybody participates and women are getting the same fair deal as men are. i've got two daughters, and i want to make sure that they have the same opportunities that

anybody's sons have. that's part of what i'm fighting for as. of the united states. >> i want to move us along here to susan katz, who has a question. governor, it's for you. >> governor romney, i'm an undecided voter, because i'm disappointed with the lack of progress i've seen in the last four years. however i do attribute much of america's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the bush administration. since both you and president bush are republicans i fear a return to the policies of those years should you win this election. what is the biggest difference between you and george w. bush and how do you differentiate yourself from george w. bush? >> thank you. i appreciate that question. i just want to make sure that -- i think i was supposed to get that last answer, but i want to

point out that i don't believe that -- >> i don't think so, candy. i want to make sure our timekeepers are working here. >> the timekeepers are all working. legal tell yolet me tell you tht for the two of you to talk to one another, isn't quite as ordered as you think. go ahead and use the two minutes you'd like to. the question is on the floor. >> i'd just know that i don't believe bureaucrats in washington should tell someone whether they should use contraceptives or not, and i don't believe employers should tell someone whether they should have contraceptive karen or not. every woman in america should have access to contraceptives. the president's statement to my policy is totally and completely wrong. >> governor romney, that's not true. >> let me come back and answer your question. president bush and i are different people. these are different times. my five-point plan is different than what he would have done. we can by virtue of technology get all the energy we need in north america without having to go to the arabs or venezuelans.

that wasn't true in his time. i start to become energy secure. number two, trade. i'll crack down on china. president bush didn't. i'm also going to dramatically expand trade in latin america. it's been growing about 12% per year over a long period of time. i want to add more free trade agreements so we have more trade. number three, i'm going to get us to a balanced budget. president bush didn't. president obama was right. he said that that was outrageous to have deficits as high as half a trillion dollars under the bush years. he was right. but then he but in place deficits twice that size for every one of his four years, and his forecast for the next four years more deficits, almost that large. so that's the next area i'm different than president bush. then let's take the last one. championing small business. our party has been focused on big business too long. i came through small business. i understand how hard it is to start a small business. that's why everything i'll do is

designed to help small businesses grow and add jobs. i want to keep their taxes down on small business. i want regulators to see their job as encouraging small enterprise, not crushing it. and the thing i find most troubling about obamacare -- well, it's a long list, but one of the things i find most troubling is that when you go out and talk to small businesses and ask them what they think about it, they tell you it keeps them from hiring more people. my priority is jobs. i know how to make that happen. president bush had a very different path for a very different time. my path is designed in getting small businesses to grow and hire people. >> thanks, governor romney. mr. president. >> well, first of all, i think it's important to tell you that we did come in during tough times, losing 800,000 jobs a month when i started, but we had been digging our way out of policies that were misplaced and

focused on the top doing very well and middle class folks not doing well. we've seen 30 consecutive -- 31 consecutive months of job growth. 5.2 million new jobs created. and the plans that i talked about will create even more. but when governor romney says that he has a very different economic plan, the centerpiece of his economic plan are tax cuts. that's what took us from surplus to deficit. when he talks about getting tough on china, yeah, keep in mind that governor romney invested in companies that were pioneers of outsourcing to china. and he's currently investing in companies that are building surveillance equipment for china to spy on its own folks. that's -- governor, you're the last person who's going to get tough on china. what we've done when it comes to trade is not only sign three trade deals to open up new

markets, but we've also set up a task force for trade that goes after anybody who is taking advantage of american workers or businesses and not creating a level playing field. we've brought twice as many cases against unfair trade practices than previous administration, and we've won every single one that's been decided. when i said that we had to make sure that china was not flooding our domestic market with cheap tires, governor romney said i was being protectionist, that it wouldn't be helpful to american workers. well, in fact we saved 1,000 jobs. that's the kind of tough trade actions that are required, but the last point i want to make is this, you know, there are some things where governor romney is different from george bush. you know, george bush didn't propose turning medicare into a voucher. george bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform. he didn't call for self-deportation. george bush never suggested that

we eliminate funding for planned parenthood. so there are differences between governor romney and george bush, but they're not on economic policy. in some ways he's gone to a more extreme place when it comes to social policy. i think that's a mistake. that's not how we're going to move our economy forward. >> i want to move you both along to the next question, because it's in the same wheelhouse. so you will be able to respond. but the president does get this question. i want to call on michael jones. >> mr. president, i voted for you in 2008. what have you done or accomplished to earn my vote in 2012? i'm not that optimistic as i was in 2012. most things i need for everyday living are very expensive. >> well, we've gone through a tough four years, there's no doubt about it. but four years ago i told the american people, and i told you, i would cut taxes for

middle-class families. and i did. i told you i'd cut taxes for small businesses, and i have. i said that i'd end the war in iraq, and i did. i said we'd refocus attention on those who actually attacked us on 9/11. we've gone after al-qaeda's leadership like never before and osama bin laden is dead. i said that we would put in place healthcare reform to make sure that insurance companies can't jerk you around. if you don't have health insurance that you'd have a chance to get affordable insurance. and i have. i committed that i would rein in the excesses of wall street, and we passed the toughest wall street reforms since the 1930s. we've created 5 million jobs, gone from 800,000 jobs a month being lost, and we're making progress. we saved an auto industry on the brink of collapse. now, does that mean you're not struggling? absolutely not. a lot of us are. and that's why the plan that i put forward for manufacturing

and education and reducing our deficit in a sensible way, using the savings from ending wars to rebuild america, putting people back to work, making sure that we are controlling our own energy, but not just the energy of today, but also the energy of the future, all those things will make a difference. so the point is the commitments i've made i've kept. and those that i haven't been able to keep, it's not for lack of trying. we're going to get it done in a second term. but under pay attention to this campaign, because governor romney's made some commitments as well. i suspect he'll keep those, too. you know, when members of the republican congress say, we're going to sign a no tax pledge so that we don't ask a dime for millionaires and billionaires to reduce our deficit so we can still invest in education and helping kids go to college, he said me too. when they said, we're going to cut planned parenthood funding,

he said me too. when he said we're going to repeal obamacare, first thing i'm going to do, despite the fact that it's the same healthcare plan that he passed in massachusetts, and is working well, he said me too. that is not the kind of leadership that you need, but you should expect that those are promises he's going to keep. and the choice in this election is going to be whose promises are going to be more likely to help you in your life, make sure your kids can go do college, you have a good-paying job, making sure that medicare and social security will be there for you. >> mr. president, thank you. governor? >> i think you know better. i think you know that these last four years haven't been so good as the president just described, and that you don't feel like you're confident the next four years are going to be much better either. i can tell you that if you were to elect president obama, you know what you're going to get. you'll get a repeat of the last four years. we can't afford four more years like the last four years. he said that by now we'd have

unemployment at 5.4%. the difference between where it is and 5.4% is 9 million americans without work. i wasn't the one that said 5.4%. this was the president's plan. didn't get there. he said he would have by now put forward a plan to reform medicare and social security, because he pointed out they're on the road to bankruptcy. he would reform them, he'd get that done. he hasn't even made a proposal on either one. he said in his first year he'd put out an immigration plan that would deal with our immigration challenges. didn't even file it. this is a president who has not been able to do what he said he'd do. he said he'd cut in half the deficit. he hasn't done that either. in fact, he doubled it. he said that by now middle income families would have a reduction in their health insurance premiums by $2,500 a year. it's gone up by $2,500 a year.

if obama cares passed or implemented -- it's already been passed -- if it's implemented fully, it will be another $2,500 on top. the middle class is getting crushed under the policies of a president who does not understand what it takes to get the economy working again. he keeps saying i've created 5 million jobs. that's after losing 5 million jobs. the entire record is such that the unemployment has not been reduced in this country. the unemployment, the number of people who are still looking for work is still 23 million americans. there are more people in poverty. 1 out of 6 about people in poverty. how about food stamps? when he took office, 32 million people were on food stamps. today 47 million people are on food stamps. how about the growth of the economy? it's growing more slowly this year than last year. and more slowly last year than the year before. the president wants to do well. i understand. but the policies he's put in place from obamacare to dodd-frank to his tax policies

to his regulatory policies, these policies combined have not let this economy grow off and take off like it could have. you might say, you got an example? yeah. in the reagan recession when unemployment hit 10.8%, between the end of that recession and equivalent period of time to today, ronald reagan's recovery created twice as many jobs as this president's recovery. 5 million jobs doesn't even keep with up with our population growth. the only reason the unemployment rate seems a little lower today is because of all the people that have dropped out of the workforce. the president has tried, but his policies haven't worked. he's great as a -- as a -- as a speaker and describing his plans, his vision. that's wonderful, except we have a record to look at. that record shows he just hasn't been able to cut the deficit, to put in place reforms for medicare and social security, to preserve them, to get us the rising incomes we need.

median income is down $4300 a family and 23 million americans out of work. that's what this election is about. it's about who can get the middle class in this country a bright and prosperous future and assure our kids the kind of hope and optimism they deserve. >> governor, i want to move you along. don't go away. we'll have plenty of time to respond. we're quite aware of the clock for both of you. i want to bring in a different subject here. mr. president, i'll be right back with you. lorraine asaario has a question for you. >> for mr. romney? >> yes, mr. romney. >> mr. romney, what do you plan on doing with immigrants without their green cards living here as productive members of societies? >> thank you. lorraine, thank you for your question. let me step back and tell me what i'd like to do with our

immigration policy broadly and include an answer to you're question. first of all, this is a nation of immigrants. we welcome people coming to this country as immigrants. my dad was born in mexico of american parents, ann's dad was born in wales, a first generation american. where he welcome legal immigrants into this country. i want our legal system to work better. i want it to be streamlined. i want to be clearer. i don't think you have to -- shouldn't have to hire a lawyer to figure out how to get in this country legally. i also think we should have give visas to people, green cards rather to people who graduate with skills that we need. people around the world with accredited degrees in science and math, get a green card stapled to their diploma, come to the us of a. we should make sure that our legal system works. number two, we have to stop illegal immigration. there are 4 million people waiting in line to get here legally. those who have come here illegally take their place. i will not grant amnesty to those who have come here