swoon and cheek hair cut and peoples smile. and the sexiest man's list in the past. bernie madoff ted kasinski maybe they would have skipped the store. i'm jon scott. we'll see you back here next week. >> john: pink slime? for this energy drink and raw milk are illegal in my town. why do you want to drink raw mick mil can. >> because i want to. >> if you can't pick your own food are you free. >> it should be the freedom to own a gun. >> so can i eat him or her or

him? >> was it good. >> that is our show tonight. [applause] >> and now john stossel. >> john: food can kill. people eat the wrong stuff and get sick. that is why most everyone that we need government to set limits. not bacteria chemicals. to make sure food companies tell you what is in their food and how fattening it is. state legislator felix ortiz has done that in new york city. he got trans fat man, calorie counts posted at mcdonald's and other fast-food places. now he wants a ban on adding too much salt. so you think he saved lives? >> absolutely. john: okay.

a farmer. he grows vegetables dollar raises cows, chickens, and pigs. i assume you want the people who buy your beef and pork to be safe. so don't we owe him a vote of thanks for saving this? >> no. i would say you're killing me out here. trying to get my stuff to market. this plethora of government regulations, you know, is killing our farm and our ability to come to market. john: you are just a greedy businessman and don't care if people died. let's go through some of the ways that assemblyman ortiz has saved the chance that band. >> that is old news. john: you wann a tax on junk food. >> the carbohydrate product that is in the market. we are giving the consumer is the choice to a choose what they want to consent. john: good food would cost less.

degree food would cost more. >> that is totally correct. john: orange juice and apple seized on food? >> well, i don't believe they are. john: more sugar than coke and pepsi. >> well, we will cross that bridge when we get here, but i will tell you this much. i like my apples and oranges. john: you also helped get to these calorie counts posted at fast food places. >> that is correct. john: go into mcdonald's. no, this merely calories command that helps people. >> we have monies, they make their choices based on what they see. we have managed now to see a wonderful number of decrease in people suffering from obesity and diabetes. john: decreasing. >> moving in that direction. to mcdonald's and burger king and others are more responsible. john: a real study has been done on this. you can say, it doesn't cost

that much to put up a little entellus with a calorie count is. and why you did a test. they went into fast food places that the law went into effect. oh, yes. great that we can see the calorie count and they're paying more attention. indelicate the receipts and saw that they were eating more calories. >> well, let me just say that the best thing that we can do is step get the consumer the choice, the option. john: wrote a book titled everything i want to do is illegal. [laughter] >> right. [applause] de. john: what is your point? >> my point is that every time the government penetrates into the food system the abuses mount up from the big guys and little guys like us get routed back from the table do to a smothering bunch of regulations.

government interventions come at the result of wind things it out of control. i health care costs to go $150 billion. john: it's his body. he can make his own stupid choices. >> i never believe that i'm hurting anybody's freedom. john: you are banning things. you support the ban on the soft drinks. >> well, the big soft drink is important to realize that we need said -- you have children at the age of nine. they suffer from hypertension as a result of too much soda, too much sugar as a result that people are not taking their own responsibility. that is when government jump

into it. john: how can you say you're leaving them your toys? you're not. >> well, they should be glad. we're trying to do it. john: this is dangerous. too big. >> depending how many of those you have. john: illegal. >> that's the reason i have the surcharge on it, to make sure that people get discouraged from getting this kind of items. john: and you want to -- [talking over each other] john: it baena said drink this size. >> -- [talking over each other] >> i think that is a great idea, and by will continue to support my mayor. john: you want to ban extra salt. >> this is a very important item that we need to discuss and talk about it. when you talk about having too much sodium on products, were talking about a stroke, a hypertension.

>> governments can tell you you can't eat the soda or salt, the same government that kentucky you can't an alternative treatments for cancer therapy. a government that decides that it can tell you that you cannot make a risky decision is a government that can deny you the right to make al decision. you cannot have both. john: last point. you support the mayor. you support his ban on that basis, shelters. one man who donated for 20 years was turned away when he tried to give bagels and carrots. you didn't not know the salt and sugar content. [laughter] >> let me just make something very clear about what i support or don't support. sometimes i go to restaurants and have my own choices. i asked the waitress, can you tell the chef to make sure there

is no salt and my items. and i make those choices. and -- john: you don't want salt i can't have solved? >> you still will have your choice, but at the same -- [talking over each other] >> limit the amount of salt into your plate. and saving your life in the life of the people of this nation. john: thank you so much, felix, for seven my life. joel, thanks for giving me more choices, which i prefer. currently is our government are certain it is their job to help us exercise, eat less and lose weight. more must be done to get healthy food and support neighborhoods. my next guest is the author of the hundred six which says that the and salty foods are drugs, like cocaine and math and need to be kept away from kids. dr. pam pq teaches medicine at the university of maryland actually believes that food is like coke and mass.

>> not food, just certain foods. and -- john: salty and fatty. >> sherry, vatican and salty foods that have been studied by world-class scientists at the national institutes of health. what is fascinating, what to do with all of that. i will tell you something. i have been staunch allies about john: what does that mean? >> board is the role of government when you find that that n certain people when you have exposure to a lot of these refined process foods, not apples and oranges internet and the rest of it, but the other stuff. in certain people it really, you know, based upon very credible brain scans and excellent work really works on the brain and the reward center just l

very susceptible to this. here is what you need to do. if you take -- let's just take that bottle of nasty stuff there. let's just say we take that right there.

if you say that i cannot have a 16-ounce, what am i going to do if i have an issue like food addiction? i'm going to score in some other way. you can charge me, make me run around with 8 ounces instead of 16 ounces, but somehow i am going to score this thing. you cannot do a thing about that john: you are against the ridiculous soda size thing, but you do say in your book, make three programs available to get people to detox and get off these foods. >> i didn't say it was government. i said, can we have programs. there are already in existence right now, all done by private organizations. overeaters anonymous, food addicts anonymous. john: not governments. >> nothing to do with government . and we actually agree about that. i told you. [laughter] john: un delighted. how about the other issue. i am told there are food

deserts' where poor people live and we have to invite supermarkets in, give them tax breaks or maybe pay for it because they cannot get fresh food. that is why they are fat. >> ever since, you know, that original ms. -- missed came out about the food doesn't we found out that by doing research it really was not true at all. and they actually do have the supermarkets. you still have a choice, and we are right back to where we go again. i want a ground surge of citizens out there who are highly enlightened about this too can finally get on out and do something for themselves. they are the ones with the choice here, and they need to be doing that for their families as well. john: voluntary. >> nutritionists. john: thank you. coming up, our taste test. to you prefer beef steak or

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themselves, but they said they cannot talk about it because they have s d it's outrageous this company secretly peddles this who are iblt thing called pink slime now they were caught by the heros of abc. what i just what i just said said >> because it's not. it's ground beef. i have been to the factory where they manufacture this. i am a city boy. john: there is some of it in

here. i'm going to eat. >> we have all eaten it. a couple of activists did not like this scientific process that separates the beef trimming so that you get the remaining ground beef. the point of this term deliberately to try to hurt this product and company. john: the company was doing something unique, taking the last bit of a term of meat off the bone by heating a slightly. that saved money and the environment. >> and not only that, tired of hearing that argument. everybody, abc constantly, eat a leaner beef, worry about your health. so when we tried to eat it did take that away as well. john: not using it wastes 5,000 cows a day. >> they said the term pink slime 178 times either on their broadcast or with jim antelope.

john: then they started taking it back. >> they started out. this is classic. they said, a term commonly used. then, of course, what you find is it is not. "washington post," new york times, one or two times at most that they had ever used it prior to that. john: what is the agenda? >> well, always the activists who are pushing against the food in general. what happened was this comes from a movie. a lot of the bad things in society come from movies. shooting to put out by participant media so there were so proud of this process just amazing to look at. thee let these people and the videotape. you don't dare let anybody videotape anything because they demonized.

john: the company closed three out of four plants, laid-off workers. >> in the economic down is far worse than that. john: has not been a single incident of anybody being hurt. and what the industry calls it is just lean beef trimmings or finely textured. no slimy than other parts of beef. >> the company here has received awards for how good a job they do for consumer safety. it was just one constant is a job. john: and that the company is suing abc. i don't like that. that is saying we disagree and you should just shut up. there ought to be some other way to fight back. but the free speech, we have a right to be foolish. >> they don't have a right to slander or misstate things. john: somebody was. we reported that. >> and the reason why they sued for over a billion dollars, the reason why they sued, we told you this was factually

incorrect. we told you you were disparaging our product. what they tried to dubai targeting the supermarkets and the companies may use the product, they're trying to shut them down. john: for the record, if you are upset about what abc said, you should know that there is all kinds of stuff in food that probably would bother you more. the fda says in a jar of mushrooms the size there can legally be no more than 20 maggots. and a box of raisins there can be no more than 35 fruit fly eggs. and this much pasta can have up to 450 bug parts. i'm not saying any of these do, but that is the law. most of these products have been set parts, things that are far grocer then finally textured beef. it is an organization that wants to get you, and it will. >> they did.

thank you. i invited my old abc bosses to come on this program in response, but they did not respond. coming up, a taste test. passing out samples of zebra and antelope meet. which tastes better? should we even eat that? if so, then what about a horse or dog? what are the limits? that is next. ♪ ♪ m?ad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] ♪ he'll be fine. [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes and lexus for audi than ever before. take advantage of exceptional values during the season of audi event.

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♪ we eat lots of peace in america and chicken, but what about coor's or zebra? why don't we eat those? aren't the kind of like cows? some of you shudder at the idea, and it is illegal in some places like california and illinois. conventional wisdom says it is not right to eat a zebra or a

water buffalo or a horse. so how many of you are repulsed or bothered by the idea and would not do our taste test? a few of you. okay. it is just wrong. well, that is bought, says the chef at beaver creek ranch in texas. beavercreek is a resort where guests pay to have zebra, water buffalo, and this cute animal. they eat what they kill command they eat it after it has been cut by the chef. so at their ranch people come for this. they are not squeamish. >> right. fourteen different varieties of animals. pick out which one you want to hunt for. the harvest the animal, bring it back and cook it. john: people say it tastes good.

>> and it's better for you because it is leaner. i have been a chef for years. it beef from the grocery store verses cooking as zebra, if you cook it and put it on the grill there is so much more fat. it's a lot more lane. you have to do more to it, baby it, tenderize it. john: lean means tough. >> but if you add fat to it, good fat like a jam to blackberry jam and coated with that and then grow it in you get a whole different taste and health-conscious. john: you put no limit on what you would eat. horse, dog, cat. john: can you understand why some people are put off? >> i do. john: before tonight's show we cut some zebra and a kind of

antelope. and, as you saw, we offer samples of it to our audience. which is better? and people tell the difference? we did not tell them. we labeled the meet a, b, and see. let me ask you. who like a? b? c? roughly evenly divided. roughly evenly divided. i think see get the the capital one cash rewards card

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now. >> john: simple miss take and it had the ten times more iron than it did. but the press reported the spinach myth and i had to eat spinach. now, nutritional advice, gary and peter says today it's just as dubious. really? can't be. >> there is a lot of ideas embraced since the 1970s that were based on assumptions, not

rigorous science. the science that experiments and observations to test those hypothesis has been poor. we have been living with that ever since. we have had an obesity endemic and, epidemic and the question is why is obesity and diabetes increasing so quickly? >> john: good question. you are an md, you went to stanford and residency at john hopkins, the nutritional instruction you got wasn't good? >> that is a great point. i thought it was. i followed it myself and told everyone around me to follow it. about three or four years ago i wound up being 40 pounds overweight even though i was exercising and eating the right food supposedly. it had me questioning what i was

believing and what it was i was preaching as dogma. >> john: let's back up. in 1977 our government came out with dietary goals for you. increase carbohydrate consumption 50% of your calories reduce fat from 40 to 30%. this is based on research that led to the famous food pyramid that told to us eat lots of breads and vegetables, fruits, less meat and milk. now michelle barack obama has -- michelle obama has new version out call my place. but our producer found this clip of a government scientist behind the rules testifying before the senate. >> i have pleaded in will plead again orally here for more research before we make pronouncements to the public. >> we don't have the luxury to

await every last shred of evidence is in. >> john: so the politicians as usual went off and sold us a bill of goods. >> is that one way to rook at it. ahead of the national academy of science that was going to huge nutritional experiment. you have the american public the subjects. 30 years later we gotten sicker and sicker. >> john: and we're fatter and more more diabetic. >> and one of the reasons, it can be fixed with good science. >> john: good science. you have book out "good calories bad calories." i know that calorie is a calorie. what are you talking about? >> the idea of the calorie is a calorie. the reason get fat is because you take in more energy than you expend. it comes in the form of calories.

it's a unit of heat. each one of nutrients you eat. protein and fat and different types of carbohydrates. glucose from sugar from starchthey have different effects on your body. some stimulate secretion of hormones that have different effects on whether or not you will store calories as fat or fuel. maybe it's not the calories. it's the hormonal affect of the foods on our body. what these foods do to us. >> john: the u.s. department of health is saying a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. is it stupid? [ laughter ] >> just hasn't been tested. one of the things we did when we started this organization. we went back. >> john: this being? >> the nutrition science initiative. >> we went back to every study

back to world war ii that had attempted to answer that question. he found 82 studies that attempted to answer that but they were fraught with the same limitations and problems. so in 2012 we don't know the answer to to that question based on regular science. there is evidence that suggests that gary's point is correct that is calorie is not a calorie. >> john: one thing that must be true, you must eat less fat. yet you eat lots of fat. you are a doctor, stanford doctor. what is that about? >> like i said when i was too overweight to handle it. my wife said i needed to a little less not thin, i realize i had an issue and all the whole grains that i was eating was leading me to be fatter. if i tripped out of my diet and

ate more fat, all those things would go away. low and bow held it did. >> john: you are not fat now by eating fat. >> so the question is what happened to peter is a lot of people. they get rid of the carbohydrates, they lose weight. that is some kind of bizarre anecdotal event that happened to peter because he is some weird educated doctor. maybe the nutritional advice we are getting is all wrong. back in the '60s believe that carbohydrates, bread, past ta were fattening. >> john: the picture of a piece of bread of butter on in your book. >> that is the idea it used to be the butter was considered healthy and the bread was consider fattening then the government decided it was

something else and that coincides with obesity. >> john: they said margarine was bad for you? >> no it was good for you. >> now eggs are okay. >> and the reason for this flipping and flopping back and forth is because the kind of research we do to try and establish isn't capable of sort of establishing a definitive result. >> john: why don't we do this. it's important. >> it's really hard. you put the rat in the cage and it does what it does. >> john: double blind test with people. >> exactly. with drugs, it's real easy, it's take this pill or take this other pill. with nutrition, john i want you to follow this diet and it's hard to do. so we really can't measure what we think what we're measuring. it's probably a result of this as opposed to some sort of gross incompetence that led to

ambiguity. >> john: thank you gary and peter. coming up, do you know the budget cuts will kill you, you will die from food poisoning. that and more food bunks next.

john: we are back now with your comments or questions on my death. they include former dole and >> john: we have dr. peter and dr. pamela peak who says that you can be addicted to food like people are addicted to cocaine. our first question is about modified foods and gm of goods. the people voted no on a, is that terrible? you want to know? is there any hard evidence to support worries over general foods? >> i say that i should be able to label it as gm all free. we don't need more laws, we need

freedom -- john: you can't label it? >> no. we don't need another labeling law. we need the freedom to do what we were on the label and let the market decide what we want to be one of the good answer. >> what is the idea of empty calories and are they more addicting than healthy calories? >> usually the empty calories are the refined rss. suddenly you when realizing it has no major nutrients come and apologize. john: we are eating more of this stuff all the time and we are living longer. >> if you want to know something, it's all about choice. if you want to have that empty calorie on top of a cookie, knock yourself out. as long as you don't end up

eating everything checked out around here. some people do that. you just have to use your own common sense. you know your body better than anybody notice. >> [inaudible question] is across-the-board? >> it strikes me is almost impossible to believe that every human being on earth is going to do equally well in the exact same diet. i hope that the future of medicine and nutrition is one where we can customize and tailor things based upon both people's genetic susceptibility to certain diseases, and what we call other genetics, which is other things that influenced you up until this point in life today. >> doctor, what you were saying, your ideal diet. is it something you are advocating? >> is interesting. i think that labels are always a little bit confusing.

what i would say is that when i figured out was i had a pretty significant intolerance most of the foods i was eating. what i when i eat it probably looks a lot like what someone consumed in a paleolithic time. though i don't particularly adhere to a particular set of rules. i will give you an example. i think a hard-core paleolithic person -- for me it does well. it comes back to the theme this theme that we are hearing. at the end, the individual level is where we dig out what works. it's really good to have science that informs us of you know you're making a reasonable starting ss where to go. >> there is one glitch to that. that is you're a guy. when women have been studied with these dietary intakes have had more trouble because women are little bit more carbohydrate extracted. therefore, they will last about, i don't know, several weeks, even that long, on a strict diet

like this only taken about 10% carbohydrate. women start bumping it up a little bit. a lot of this has to do with our blueprint and her makeup. when you look at the research, what we haven't seen enough of is the gender differentiations and what we can now do to be able to help you and customize that based upon gender. john: on that note, we thank you all. coming up, the truth about food safety. if the government has no interest in telling you. want to try to crack it? yeah, that's the way to do it!

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food poisoning bulletin? it once a that the government spends less. food will be less safe because of a less vigilant fda and marginal companies. helping to cut corners. the blazing midsummer sun beating down, cattle intends whose moist flesh and batsmen like the creators of hell. we get the drift.

it was bad. then we got billions of dollars of government regulation and that is why coetzee today. uv. no wonder, when republicans proposed a small cut of the funding, hello would poisoning. sanitation costs money. a lack of regulation, a competitive disadvantage. that makes sense. it is food bulk. it's not government that keeps e. coli to a minimum. it is -- and mcdonald's and jack-in-the-box. they lost millions after food

poisoning scandal. here is getting a bad reputation that makes the producers even more careful than government requires them to be. for example, an agriculture department has an army of inspectors eyeballing chickens on assembly lines. they watched each bird looking for visible signs of abnormality. but bacteria is invisible. food producers run much more sophisticated tests on their own. one employee has 2000 more safety regulations passed then the government. a 180-degree steam vacuum. production is checked for sanitation with microbiology. if anything is detected, they reclaim the equipment. equipment is taken apart to be swat tested. none of that is required, specifically, by the government. i explain more about this in my book. the bottom line is that we are