they both in contact with

police. they are important in this investigation. police offered more clarity about the weapons used in this horrific assault. a bushmaster ar 15 assault rifle coupled with high capacity magazines was the primary weapon used in the attack. the gunman carried with him two side arms a 6 millimeter and 10 millimeter. one of the guns were used by the gunman to kill himself when first arrived on the scene. a shot gun according to police that was left out in their car during this attack. police also indicated that they are gathering evidence and information about a motive but at this stage of the investigation they are not prepare to do offer up any partial information. >> you simply can't piecemeal it. we don't have a specific reason we can stand here and say this occurred. we will and we are searching diligently and nonstop to answer that question.

>> also today troopers said autopsies are completed on the final two bodies moved on the crime scene. those were the bodies of the gunman and his mother nancy lanza. she had gun shot wounds to the head. they are giving more details she was killed by four gun shot wounds in the head. she was found in her bed still wearing night clothes. the gunman was killed by a single gun shot wound to the head. governor? >> thank you for that report. >> the connecticut shooter's brother told police his brother had autism or asperger's syndrome as well as a personality syndrome. carolyn specializes in mental health issues. in your experience when a person has certain behaviors like we have seen in the shooter. are any of these disorders the type that would exhibit themselves in this manner?

>> not in a manner to which we have seen in the last several days but there are signs and symptoms that lead up to certain behaviors. so if you know what to look for the red flags as i call them you know how to identify them you can actually go back and see what could be problematic. >> but to put parents at ease who may have a child who has either autism or asperger's a presence of some form of awe sichl or asperger's subject make them say my child is a mass murderer just because of the disorder. >> it is really the behaviors you want to look at. it's the change in behaviors had a are really of concern. you have a child who is doing well in school, socially active, is behaving appropriately and suddenly there's a change they become more isolate tive they become more socially unengageable.

they don't want to to go to school their grades go douvenl those should be signs to parents to take a look at and put into context the behavior and any symptoms or any diagnoses that may be at play. >> the reason i want to delve into this a little bit. i think some parents say i don't have to worry about my child because he doesn't have asperger's or any form of autism. that's not necessarily a valid conclusion either is it? >> no, it's not. there are first of all autism is a spectrum disorder. so there are many different behaviors and symptoms along the way. in addition there are other disorders that are at play. there are serious mental health issues and mal lody disorders, character logical disorders. you need to focus in on what it is you are talking about. we try very hard to ascertain a diagnosis or a working diagnosis and then go from there and sort

out what are our expectations what can we expect to be first what can we expect to be treated what interventions can we bring to bear? we work as a team approach so that we can bring in mental health professionals, case managers for example, psychologists die kie terrorists who address each individual symptom based on what is going on psychologically and i psychiatrically. >> our audience heard a lot of words thrown at them over the weekend. words that you use every day in the course of your practice of law and psychology but most people don't use these words maybe they are not familiar to them. when we say that a person is a psychotic, has psychotic behavioral tendencies what does that mean? >> that usually means a break with reality. you are not able to see things realistically you are not process things coming in in a

realistic way. >> and a sociopath what does it mean if a person is described as sociopathic? >> sociopaths is a character logical disorder. it is manifest by usually people who can't feel, they don't have empathy. they don't connect to the usual day-to-day feelings that most of us can connect to. >> so some people could be some what psychotic and sociopathic, is it possible to be a person with both character ryes risticks? >> from the mental health experts i work with every day i believe the answer to that would be yes. >> so that's what i want to make sure people understand. this is very complex. it's not like you can take a child and say he has asperger's therefore he is more likely to do a mass murder and by the way that means he is psychotic. it involves a complex kind of diagnosis. >> a complex diagnosis as well

as putting it into context and really looking at how to access in the real world. the treatments might be intervention getting help it's the biggest we face. having mental health issues this they can get past that hurdle they are more open to allowing experts in the field to intervene and try and head off any problems down the road. >> you carry the stigma. it is very difficult. i feel for for parents who are afraid to say my child may have a mental illness. you have the child saying there's something wrong with me that's different. you need to help people understand that a mental illness is no different than a physical

infirmity. we don't say a person has a broken leg that would be embarrassing somebody might think my child has a broken leg or a pend sitet-- append siteti. how can we get people where as it were comparable to any physical illness we may have. >> i say in my practice to my clients every day. that goes back to the conversation they need to have with one another. conversation they need to have with their physicians with other mental health professionals with whom they work with the mental health attorneys. they need to have that conversation and say exactly that it's a brain chemistry issue it's illness. if you have a heart problem you go to the cardiologist. if you break your leg you put a cast on it. it has been so many decades of people having that stigma and thinking it's bad. also the publicity that goes with it. every time there is a tragedy

such as the one we have seen this week the first questions asked are if you have a mental illness rather than what went on with this individual or what might read led up to it or what issues are we facing. you need to de stigmatize it as much as we can. >> it is an important thing that has to happen. hopefully at some point in our culture there has been a common denominator seemingly. a lot of these mass shootings involving young people or even children the common denominator is the prolific manner in which many of these kids played very violent video games. i want to be careful not to immediately draw the line from the video games to the behavior but there does seem to be some connection. do you see a connection? if so how do we deal with this? >> again i think you have to put all of this into context.

if you are seeing other behaviors and they are playing video games, there is probably a bigger issue than the video games. there is a lot of talk a lot of research being done on whether video games actually leave the violence. i think it is very hard to connect up the two. when we take a history there's a lot more going on in the course of the discussion than just my son or daughter spends all day playing video games. i think he needs to have a predisposition for the video games to actually cause you to then take some sort of negative action or become violent. >> i want to continue with that thought we will be right back with carolyn wolf when we return with this special edition of "huckabee. [ male announcer ] we all make bad decisions.

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>> we are back. we were talking earlier about the video games and the influence they have. i think you made an important point. just because a kid play as video game even a violent one doesn't mean he is going to turn into a mass murderer. if there is a child who has certain things going on in his head the detachment from reality, the inability. it could be a trigger point to take him off to where most kids wouldn't go. >> that's the context you have to put this into. people, parents, teachers, friends, we have an issue with friends not wanting to rat their friends out or tattle on them. friends of many of these individuals could actually be very helpful in at least bringing to an adult's attention that there is an issue. they play their video games with a lot of the time. they a their friends. i think it needs to be looked at in the bigger picture.

what else is going on in the bigger picture in addition to watching the video games. it could act as a trigger. >> it is easy to look back at certain tyne signs people are saying she must have seen behavioral tendencies with her son she pulled him out of school and home schooled. reports are she had a collection of guns taught him how to use them. talk about red flags that you could identify in this situation based on what we know realizing it's an incomplete picture at this point. >> we found we can train parents, schools, college personnel, faculty teachers to identify behaviors. they 2k5don't have to be expert. they start to move away from the normal behavior. a kid who sits in the front of the room suddenly is sitting in the back and is quiet and writing strange things and

parents can do the same thing. they can notice their children are moermalnormally happy and a and social and now are suddenly isolating spending more time in their rooms having troubles in school. it's really important to take some sort of action rather than pulling them into the ice laying home schooling them for example. i am not saying that may not be appropriate in some cases but it is isolating. parents should go to the school talk to the guide dance counselors ask what's going on. i am seeing a change at home. >> there are also behaviors that can be triggered by family situations. you have a mother and father who divorced a few years ago. that changes the strung tour i am not saying you blame the parents but if the child is manifesting certain behaviors because of a divorce a death in

the family a loss of a pet there could be many things had a help trigger behaviors. >> that's why we work closely with parents to talk about that. what is going on in the home what change led to different behaviors in children and then bringing in a team of mental health professionals who can then address the changes. because they are again easy to identify in a lot of cases you just have to know what to look for. >> i think people are afraid sometimes to raise the flag. they are very reluctant with school counselors and others because they are afraid either of liabilities or they will be seen as sticking their nose in someone else's business. where is that line of pro prity? oo i think as we see more and more of these incidents and tragedies the dialogue is just

starting to be more towards we need to look at this and talk about it and set up systems to address it. after the aurora shooting we heard about the behavioral intervention teams on college campuses they are set up specifically to identify kids at risk or kids reported to have at risk behavior or red flag behavior. then not just to target them so to speak or spy on them but to come up with an intervention and a response that is multidisciplinary that can address the concerns that are being brought to the forefront. i believe unfortunately now schools have to start to do that. in the lower schools it is unimaginable you would do that at an elementary school but you need to look at that and need to do that. >> carolyn thank you very much. very helpful and practical. nice to have you here. >> thank you very much.

>> i hope people will use this as an opportunity to realize if there is evidence of mental illness in your child or yourself that you don't feel like somehow it ought to be embarrassing to get help. we ought to get to a place where it is embarrassing to not get the help. i will talk to allen deder s-- about what he would like if he went to trial.

>> allen has represented some of america's most reviled defendants like clause van beule low and o.j. simpson in the case of the connecticut shooting the

gunman is dead. there will be no trial. but i asked the professor had the gunman lived how old he defend someone responsible for one of america's most heinous crimes. >> it's the call every good lawyer dreads generally happens a judge will call you and say you are a respected lawyer, the system requires this man be vigorously defended you have the job of defending him. you have to do your very best. my daughter-in-law is an emergency doctor at columbia presbyterian hospital. they wheel people into her who are terrible, terrible human beings she has to make them better the system requires that. in that caa case like this you look into his mental background you see if there's a plausible claim of mental illness. you know if he goes to jail he will be killed in jail. the worst treatment are given to people who killed young children understandably so, and so it is always going to be a life and death matter even if he is facing life imprisonment.

>> you have personal feelings you have to set aside. >> it is so hard. you want to see this sob get the longest possible sentence. the first inclination is you want to strangle the man with your bare hands. we have all experienced that. you have to distance yourself be professional about it and you have to remember the system is on trial when ever the most notorious offenders. i remember being in real shortly after the eichmann trial when a man who killed is responsible for killing 6 million jews went on trial. he had a vigorous defense attorney who did a good job. couldn't save them, obviously but that's the dreaded moment every lawyer faces is being called on to his or her duty in a case like this. >> is there a tendency to try to get that person to plead guilty to get it over with and take a plea deal as opposed to going through trial or plead innocent?

do you actually say do you want to plead innocent? >> you give the person all of the options. they generally don't want to plead guilty. they also don't want you to plead an insanity defense. they want you to get up there and justify it and explain to the wrorld world why he did the thing. political defenses aren't allowed and shouldn't be allowed. but dealing with the client will be one of the hardest things. i have had clients threaten me one client try to strangle me. he had been turning on his friends. being a criminal defense lawyer is not the safest or easiest job. if you win, which in a case like this you couldn't, then millions of people hate you and want to get you i had to have a federal

agent follow me around because i wouldn't take the case any more. the person i wouldn't take the case from put a hit out on me. >> we have to ask the question, why is it important to defend someone if we know -- not just know he's guilty but know he is guilty of something so outrageous so heinous there is not a person in this society that defends the action of the person who did it? >> it is a very good question. once you say there isn't anybody who can get a defense which provide all defendants must be vigorously defended then we move the line what if we are almost certain he did something so were terrible even innocence shouldn't be a defense. you visser rate the basic fundamental defenses.

our job is to defend the sob's. come after them first. then they apply the law to the rest of us. every time you defend a horrible, horrible person you are defending somebody who loves you and you love and you may be in trouble statement in time. some say a liberal who has been mugged. there's truth to that. a kid has been busted on a charge and really need you to come and dpee fend him on the basis of the 6th amendment or 4th amendment. the greatness of america is that our rights apply to everybody. you don't have to agree with rights. if i were writing the constitution i would not put a second amendment in there. >> but is it is in there and i e to defend the right of people reasonably regulated to be sure but the right of people to have access to guns. we may not like everything in the constitution but it served us very well. the longest enduring constitution in history it ain't

broke we should not be tampering with it. >> i am so glad you said that. i think sometimes we forget what an amazing document. they came together and miraculously ended up with a document that governed us and given us a government that is the envy of the civilized world. >> it is a miracle. it couldn't happen today. we could never get agreement today on the first amendment what does it mean about prayer in the schools. couldn't get an agreement on the 5th amendment. we were fortunate to get a collection of rights. third amendment you can't quarter troops in your home. but that deals with privacy rights. the home is your castle. when the eastern european got their union was defeated the first constitutions they look to was the united states

constitution. >> a great reminder we have a system. we don't just let ourselves be governed by our emotions but by our constitution and laws. >> our system goes on trial every time we see a cat cast fee like this one. >> thank you. >> there are many questions asking about the shooting in new town. the most asked question is probably why. is there an answer to that question? i will ask pastor joel olsteen and his wife victoria next. this holiday, share everything.

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>> live from america's news headquarters i am marianne raffer rafferty. law americas are facing a full workload. they are voting on an aid package tore super storm sandy.

they replenish the federal programs. governors of new york, new jersey and connecticut ro urging congress to get it done before they go home for the holidays. vice president of syria saying the rebels can't win but neither can government forces. after 21 months of civil war unlikely either side could win a decisive military victory. he doesn't believe the rebels are the solution to syrian problems and that if they won it might bring chaos to the country. he also said he doesn't think the assad regime can achieve needed change. i am marianne rafferty now back to huckabee. for the latest headlines go to i am still very numb and just like robert had said we are blessed with having our daughter with us here today. how many families and friends and everyone within the community didn't go home with their children friday night. it is just very, very heart wrenching and there is no way to

make any sense of anything with this person has done. >> now that the victims of the shooting at sandy hook elementary school have been identified the community is focusing on remembering and honoring those who have been lost. let's go to fox's an taw kooiman in saint rose church in newtown. >> as the nation search they had quite a scare as law enforcement rushed into their buildings and other places on campus today. >> new found police and a soaks person say a call came in where a man threatened to kill people in a church. everything is okay. but not before an evacuation. >> the past interrupted people left very calmly and great

digni dignity. we pray there will be mow more on this campus today. the funerals will be held later in the week and the priests are repairing for it and still working with families. warning was there a fellow neighbor disheartened. this is already the tough date for the community. as the medical examiner 12 girls 8 boys an 6 adults occurred. they lost many of the playmates and favorite teachers. third grader ali carries around a picture of her teacher victoria soto. >> my favorite first grade teacher. >> they have no way to help the victim's families except they are safe and prayer.

church officials locked up the sanctuary saying the priests have a lot to prepare for. 8 of the 26 victims are from this perish alone, governor. when a tragedy like this happens. i am undoubtedly asking why. >> i spoke with joel olsteen and his wife. what do you tell people when they ask him. why didn't they stop something like this from happening. >> i think the biggest thing we have to understand is god sagav us our own free will. he didn't make us robots. unfortunately just as you can choose good or evil. it's not a perfect place. jesus can't say in this woryou

going -- you put your trust in the lord and he will give you the strength to make it through even though it's difficult. >> when people look at that strength how do they find it? op why you will people who bray out to god in prayer. they hear about prayer, never ne don it. what do they do? >> i think it's so important. to me it's fine to be. i think you are honest with god scripture says my encouragement a lot of people bet bigger he wouldn't have let this happen. i go the opposite direction i say in these tough times i am going to turn to my faith and belief god is for me. it's a simple act of faith. it may not make sense to your mind you have god has got you in

the hand. >> so many people are trying to find the solid ground of their faith right now. there's no way to make sense what happened to the children wells to the eachteachers. what advice do you give them for people who are trying to get back their fairt in a moment when de this have any human understanding and human words to express how they feel. >> there are no human words to explain what has happened or at this particular moment give comfort. but i believe as the community gathers together as they support one another, if they love one another. there are a lot of times when something defr states to us. we have to run to god to believe he has loved us and he cares about us and we can give

through. >> victoria you are a mom. i am sure this weekend has brought up teep emotions to every mother in america. what did you say to your own children this weekend about this horrific glam crime. what happened and why? >> the first thing we did is we prayed for those families. we began to talk about how this is difficult for the families. there is no explanation for what had happened. there is people that do things that they shouldn't do and there is evil in the world. but the way i begin to say is let's pray for these families and lift them up. that's our part right now. of course you really can't explain why someone does or doesn't do what they do. it was an evil act. i just think sometimes we have to say let's pray and join our faith together with these

families. we may not know them but we can pray for them and prayer makes a difference. >> the president showed an unusual level of emotion choking back obvious tears as he recognized these were kids very much like his own and it occurred to me this is a man who may be president of the united states but he is a dad. i think he spoke and felt for every father in his country when he today at that podium trying to acknowledge what happened the feelings as a dad how dowry assure your kids we doo to be afraid the next time we thent on the sidewalks and the streets. >> you have to believe god has you in the fall am of his hands

and nothing with snatch you away. the number of days god will fulfill. we understand it why some kids were taken others were not. we to trust god is in control. not live your lives bitter. we prayed and then it reignited our faith let's reach out to others. we talked about governor -- it helps you to appreciate each day as a gift. there's no guarantee we will have tomorrow with each other. i hope we do. it really helps to get our priorities right? have i told my family how much -- make sure we take each gift. deep expressions of love and

appreciation. will he westbound light back sake torya olsteen when we return.

>> back with joel and victoria olsteen from their church in houston texas. did you watch your kids watch the coverage on the news and how did you monitor to make sure it wasn't too much of an emotional over load for them? >> our children are 17 and 14. they are a little older than if i had first, second graders. it is really a hard thing, was every where you look they are talking about it. i think there's good reports out

there. they are talking about the heros that came through even though they cost hear life the teachers who took the children under hear wings and began to protect them. there are those heros. you can also focus on the fact that there were children who made it out there are heros. families can come together the community will be stronger. it is a small community. they will come together and be strong and talk about the outcome if there is a great loss. god still is in control. there are still good days ahead. >> our society has become so cynical very secular. they reject the notion that faith is a little more than some emotional practice we go through. how can people recognize there is something more substantive going on faith and prayer is real? it does effect the way that we

live and think and relate to the tragedies of our lives. a lot of people feel it's us making ourselves feel better by saying words that might as we will be abracadabra. >> i don't know how you can make them. one way you live by xavrp. sometimes tragedies thrive them to know the lord. i am like you once you have tasted what it means to feel the lord and you feel the peace and strength that he gives you can't take that away. there will always be people that don't understand it we see that back in the bible even saul of tar sus but god knew how to get his attention. i think a big part of our ministry is spreading hope saying god is for you he's good and it does make a difference to serve him to honor him with your life. it's not just the good times but the tough times.

like victoria said you don't run away from god you run to god and say god my heart is breaking. how could this happen. you are honest with god that's when you see -- you will feel god's peace like you have never felt before. >> i know you both speak to millions of people every week flew television and there at lakewood. i appreciate your sharing an encouraging message and a message of hope to all who are watching tonight. joel victoria osteen, god bless you. >> god bless you. appreciate you. >> i will be back with closing thoughts.

>> i said controversial things from time to time but none as

when i stated the horrific shooting in schoolteachers couldn't be blamed on god because we marginalized god right out of our culture by removing him from all aspects of the public square. the vicious attacks that resulted most all of which are based on total ignorance of what i actually said have validated my point. but i am quite certain that was not the intent of the professional and amateur critics who demanded everything from my being banned from ever speaking in public again or even who wish me a slow and painful death. on that alone, i wish to acknowledge that the it has shown it defines tolerance and diversity as being tolerant only of that with which it agrees and the verse only to include side shades of the orthodox liberalism of which they hear. they abore censorship of graphic violence but the first to demand

a voice that invokes the name of god ought to be silenced. a specific act of violence is rarely the result of a specific single act of a culture that prompts it. i would never say simply taking prayer and bible reading from our institutions or silencing christmas carols is the direct cause of a mass murder. that would be ludicrous and simplist simplistic. but the cause and effect we see an the changes of what our children are capable of is a part of a cultural shift from a god centered culture to a self centered culture. glorify uninhibited sieelf expression and then we are shocked we have a generation of loan anothers. we have insisted on a society where everyone gets a trophy and no one loses and then act surprised so many kids lack self-esteem and feel like losers. we dismiss the notion of natural law and the motinotion that the are moral absolutes and seem

amazed when some kids make it their own morality to kill innocent children. we diminish even hold in contempt the natural family of a father and mother creating and responsibly raising the next generation and then express dismay that kids feel no real connection to their families or even the concept of a family. we scoff at the need for mothers and fathers to make it their priority to train their children to be strong in spirit and soul and be responsible for right and wrong and exalt instead the vir s due of having things providing expensive games toys that substitute for parenting. don't understand why our kids would have ear buds dangling to the ears fingers attach to do a smart phone and face attached to a computer screen rather than have extended conversation with their family at dinner. we don't teach them there's a creator god who sets rules a god

who is knowable and to whom we are ultimately responsible. we teach them god was not involved in our origins. our very loifs were biological happen stances those are disposable should they be inconvenient. behaviors are not sin but disorders for which we ought to be ex clued at least accommodat accommodated. i realize it is more outdated and archaic. if it was from the social contract we got in trouble for school for talking acrass. pulling a girl's pigtails or slouching in her school desk. we took guns to be school to be sure. we used them before and after school school. they were in our trucks. it never occurred to her. i should stand the contempt and

criticism. i will glad lie accept their torn with a desteady stream. i am some kind of an idiot. is but when we as a nation feared god we didn't fear that a 20-year-old with a high powered rifle would gun down our children in their school rooms. from new york, this is mike huckabee. idea fighnigh -- good night. god bless.