people want bigger government you say it's okay, want larger government you think it's fair, you think it's nice, 100 billion a year maybe on food stamps, and it costs a lot of money and by the way, this is a government, this administration envisions some sort of utopian socialist society where government does so much. that beast is amazing, it's a volca volcano, it's hungry and needs human sacrifice. >> neil: i hope the human sacrifice they can make out. what do you make of it. >> and charles is exactlily right. >> neil: don't encourage him. >> i have to tell you, i see volcano here, too. i'm going crazy with this. people making $50,000 to $75,000, paying additional $1,000 in taxes and the president promises, i'm going to raise taxes on people earning 250,000. he is doing it. how is he doing it? eliminating and scaling back deductions, personal exemptions, mortgage deduction, whatever you want to take you're going to have to think twice about it. >> neil: well, you know, ben

stein, you said this before anyone, that you would like to cut spending and they can't seem to cut spending, so there do seem to be engaged on the hill and public opinion, they'd much rather the rich than ever cut spending and different polls and different results. let's assume that spending won't be cut and then you've got to cut taxes like crazy. what do you envision in the next few years happening? >> default. i think it's-- i don't know if it's going to be in the next few years, but i think warrior looking right down the gun barrel of a genuine government default. the spending south of control and you're right. i've been saying as you know, for years now, we've got to raise taxes on the rich, now it's too late for that. i don't see any option besides drastic and default and then drastic cuts in spending, and the situation is dire, extremely dire, i never thought it would get this bad and it's gotten just out of control, terrifying. >> neil: adam, did we miss a golden opportunity on the

cliff thing to at least show some backbone or just give up on that? >> no, we didn't miss any opportunity because we're going to get another chance in about two months when the-- >> do you really believe that? do you really believe that? >> well, i know, i know it's true. i mean, we did have to do something by the end of last year and we did. we did something. no one's satisfied with the deal, but. >> we hiked taxes, that's what we did, 41-1, tax hikes and overspending, that's what we did. >> which as ben has been staying, one of the things we need today do. >> neil: i don't think that ben said we needed to do 41-1 in tax hikes, but nevertheless that's what we got. that's what we got. what makes you think we'll have more backbone in two months? >> it's not that i think we'll have more backbone, the way we set this up hardly ideal. it wasn't ideal to have this brinksmanship up to december 31st, but we had to address the sequestration issue so we did. >> neil: no we didn't. >> we pushed it back, we just pushed it back two months. yet, we moved the goal post,

that's all we did. >> no, no, no, because one thing, let me just make one point, one of the things the republicans wanted, for example, was a permanent extension of the bush tax cuts. we got that, that was success of this last legislation, as was raising the marginal tax right on the highest earners. we got that extra 600 billion dollars that you showed, neil, is not nothing, it's something. >> neil: you're right, enough to keep us going for a week the way we spend right now. what do you make of that, charles? >> listen, adam, i love him. adam whose the rose-colored glasses on with all of this kind of stuff. >> neil: love him? do you mean like him a lot. >> like him a lot. (laughter) >> it's a manner of speaking. >> neil: very strong. >> it's a very strong term, but this is a very strong situation. and ben is right. before we get to the default think of crazy things we're going to do before that. we'll do the taxes on everyone, take away deductions, everything, and then you and i talked early in the week perhaps the idea of

the one trillion dollar coin. you know? >> can you believe that? and in new york, decided give the fed a 1 trillion dollar coin. this is like-- >> and the fact that created the coin. the fed would create it-- >> have it in reserve in case you need it. >> what if you lose it. >> you have the coin. >> no, i put it in the coke machine. >> and could you get any change? >> and the stone money from yap island, make it big and-- >> you hit a brilliant point. gerri. it spoke of our times. where we're going through hoops to come up with creative ways to keep the game going rather than deal with the debt. >> it's gone up 60% under the president's watch. we can't afford. i want to hear what you guys have to say about this. we can't afford this. we have made promises to americans that we cannot keep. you've got to agree with that. >> look at that, though, gerri. there's been a recession

during most of the president's watch. i can hope and we do hope we won't be in recession for the the next fours years and able to cut down on that debt. >> consumer confidence is already in the toilet and people are already pulling back. >> neil: with all due respect-- >> with the housing recovery going on and auto sector had a good year, but one thing-- >> with the greatest respect to you adam, we all love you, all of us love you. >> yeah, we do. >> and we love you in every way. the. >> thank you. >> with all due respect. even if there is a recovery we'll be adding hundreds of billions to the deficit and then cumulative debt every year forever. there is no end to it, there is no end to it. >> it comes back to one thing, adam, spending, spending, spending, and by the way, and-- >> it's interesting. >> with the economy, you just talked about this recession, we can't get out after recession if we're hunkering down and you know, the things that we're doing, it's more like a nation that's ready to

divvy up the spoils and call it a day rather than one looking forward to the next hundred years. >> very he good. >> i actually think when you look at what's happened to the debate on medicare just as one example, the american people have spoken, neil, they said don't touch these programs, we like these programs, we like having-- >> i'm not going to judge when that's wise, they said don't touch medicare, medicaid, leave social security alone, entitlements alone, you have the block of the congressional black caucus saying don't think of addressing it. so, we're left with no other option to either increase taxes or ben said at the outset default. >> we're raising taxes and-- so i guess we are a socialist country. >> oh. >> neil: you know, adam, they might love you, i'm sickened by what you just said, but it's a sickening love kind after thing. (laughter) >> forget about the tax hikes, how about the

regulation height? 77,000 pages of new rules kicking in this year. my favorite makes it illegal to release wild hogs into the wild. will more regulations mean fewer jobs, in that case would you call them wild hogs anymore? the forbes gang at the top of the hour. next, al, say hello to al. former vp al gore selling his current tv to al-jazeera. 's making a green with a company that's definitely not green. some smelling hypocrisy over the timing of this.

>> we're live from america's news headquarters, hi, i'm jamie colby. right now there's a possible developing hostage situation in aurora, colorado. police receiving reports of shots fired inside a town house early this morning and when they arrived, an armed man barricaded himself inside. officers are saying there may also be three or four more people in that home. hostage negotiators on scene and they are in contact with the suspect. last july of course, aurora rocked by tragedy when another gunman stormed a theater showing the batman movie, the dark knight rises" and killing and injuring more. and america's food companies, the most comprehensive set of regulations in decades. an estimated 3,000 people a

year killed by contaminates in food. back to cavuto on business. i'm jamie colby, keep it on fox. fox. >> all is well for the al's, al-jazeera, scooping up al gore's current tv in a deal. al-jazeera is owned by the state oil production 68% of its economy. not very green if now what i mean. insiders say that gore tried to close the deal before the new year kicked in to avoid getting hit by the higher taxes. and charles, so you see, double hypocrisy? >> just a smidgen. al gore one the biggest individual carbon footprints in the country and the guy who says he can't stop eating meat and even though he knows there's a connection between the animals and the population, and the pollution. but, here is the thing that really to be quite honest with you. these guys get a free pass. i think really americans are

phony. and i'll tell yu. >> neil: cavalier because they watch our show? (laughter) >> business owners who fly private jets are villains, but let's say bono flies a private jet he's a cool guy. actors are cool free passes. al gore gets a free pass for being a 100% hypocrite and pass the stupid laws based on envy and jealousy and people fanning the flames of hatred should be just as guilty as anybody else. >> come on, don't be so hard on him, he's the king of the internet, has a great track record. >> what i add hired about him, he was trying to squeeze it in before the new year, there's something kind of promising evil about-- >> can't resist the urge of making a lot of money. >> so why does nobody ever go to the treasury department website and say, yeah, i want to pay more taxes? nobody does that. >> neil: i don't mind the whole idea of trying to squeeze in a heavy tax pay

day, whatever you want to say about al-jazeera and all that, but ben stein, my argument, if this were mitt romney pulling this stunt, oh, man, i mean, game over. after the election. >> it's incredible, the double standard used on liberals and conservatives in this country, it's breath taking. it's not just entertainment and athletic people, but it's this left and right. the right gets hammered, hammered, hammered, the left gets away with everything and by the way, i know we're supposed to say keep this about money, but i keep thinking, al gore got something like 80% of the jewish vote when he ran for president. i wonder, wonder how he felt about that? i don't think al-jazeera is a particularly friendly network to the state of israel, to put it mildly. i wonder if he gave that any thought whatsoever. at the end of the day politicians are all about money the same as everybody else. >> neil: adam? >> i'm sorry, i just can't-- i can't line up behind the i hate al gore flag. i will say where i agree with

you neil-- >> i didn't say i hate him. >> neil: i admire his evil, despicable-- >> i refuse to criticize, i refuse to criticize mitt romney's, the bain capital's private equity investment as being business investments, i'm not going to criticize al gore's business investment here either nor do i think we should be criticizing a capitalist for trying to make money or tax-advantaged money here. he's not-- >> adam, do you remember how he railed against george bush at the time promising big tax cuts and how he thought that they would be unfair and how he thought that they would be tilted in favor of the rich and how he felt that they would do squat for the economy and then many years later he's trying to rush in a deal before those very tax cuts that he ripped apart would expire. >> a couple of things. >> neil: does that not strike you as evil and despicable? >> he's not the only investor in this thing, we can assume

charitybly he's trying to help his other investors. >> neil: my only regret is that keith olbermann wasn't still working there when he did this. >> i wouldn't be surprised if this deal never goes through. time warner cable dropped current after it was announced. the it looks problematic to me. >> so you do fisker and come in and do this deal, the king of green, he's all for doing everything for the environment and the company that comes in and buys his company, the biggest oil producer. qatar is the wealthiest nation on the planet, my friends according to forbes. >> there's no crime there. >> no, there's no crime there, but don't talk about-- >> wait, wait, wait, you call it qatar. it's not qatar. >> no, qatar. >> and i was-- >> i say ka ter, you say-- >> sort of like when uranus is-- >> and the, but i'm sorry.

>> and there wasn't a crime committed. i think there's a crime committed, by the hypocrisy of people with influence who continue to put down capitalism, profit motivation, success, individual, no, rugged individualism and i think that they're going to change the course of america and yet, they continue to put their fingers in the cookie jar whenever they can. >> neil: yeah, adam, yeah. >> that's a crime-- >> yeah. >> thankfully i'm fairly certain in saying that the first amendment protects hypocrisy, so i don't see a crime there. >> neil: but adam, poor guy. what he meant, the dictator meant to say-- (laughter) when we come back, do any of you remember this? >> the bus is back again with about a minute and a half left to go before polls close the bus we thought left the state is back. this is the bus that i mistakenly referred to earlier

as the scooby-doo bus. astute younger members of my staff quickly pointed out, neil, hello, scooby-doo had a van, did not have a bus. >> neil: well, that was then, this is now. not enough people are coming out of that bus, to recall wisconsin governor scott walker last summer and ended up losing their fight. lesson learned? no, now they're looking to michigan. they're doubling down. ♪

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>> well, if at first you don't succeed, well, spend

again. unions not giving up the fight in michigan. labors groups say they can push a recall vote to get republican governor rick snyder out of the governor's mansion. ticked off over the new right to work law. gary, they tried a similar stunt in wisconsin and it didn't work. could this? >> i suppose it could, but i've got to tell you he's reading from the prayer book of all governors. look, if you're a right to work state you're going to have better job growth, your wages are going to be better, i know that sounds weird, but it's true when you factor in cost of living. so this is the same thing that most governors really want is a right to work state. >> neil: charles? >> listen, michigan specifically detroit, a vast wasteland right now in so many different ways in part because unions ran the state into the ground. 47% of adult illiteracy, it's really sad. this is a crazy thing. unions are essentially saying, we don't care about the general populous, it's just all about us and it's going to back fire, i really think they're going to have two big

zeros, back-to-back. >> neil: ben? >> the unions have basically no economic power in this country except in very limited rare circumstances like when working the at ports. they try to collect their money and use it to get political muscle and they're trying it this time. i think the days of the unions are passed. i have to say that, i'm a union member and i love my unions, i think in general the days of the unions are over, this is the kind of last hurrah for unions to trying to use up a political power play. 50 years from now if there still is an america, i pray there is, unions will be looked upon as sort of quaint artifacts. >> neil: adam. >> when the states are right to work states, that won't be an option available to governors like happened in michigan. by the way, i don't like recall votes the same way i don't like ballot initiatives. i think the politicians should have the chance to serve out their term except in extraordinary circumstances and then vote them the hell out if you don't like them. >> neil: that's the most sensible thing you've ever said.

(laughter) kidding. adam, i want to follow-up on one thing, a difference between what happened in wisconsin and what's happening now in michigan. right to work the issue in michigan. it was really about collective bargaining in wisconsin. so, it would be tougher still to try to ease the governor out of office, right? >> i assume that's right. i don't think it will work, but i don't fault, you know, interested parties like unions for trying. i mean, that's the precedent so go ahead and your opposition-- >> if i'm a member of the union i'm hearing ben stein saying i might see my dinosaur days and i'm thinking better ways to spend my money. >> there may not be better ways for them to spend their money. let me back up a second for something my colleague in new york said. i don't think that all of michigan is a vast wasteland, outside of detroit, it's a beautiful prosperous state. grand rapids is booming and part of-- >> and mentioning detroit and

once again making the assumption that no one in detroit watches us. >> no, no, people in detroit watch you and love, but. and it's all about-- >> and are you offended? >> easily offended, but the point about grand rapids is right. i've been there, it's amazing. the sky is full of cranes, they're building there, things are-- >> the ford museum is there. >> they're building a big, place to train doctors. >> and this is our way of apologizing to michigan, thanks to charles and saying hopefully you watch. i want to thank gerri who is so sick of what charles said she's leaving. >> i love charles. >> neil: and charles' top picks for 2013, now the rest of our gang wants in because they realize how easy charles makes it look.

e >> all right the the best funds to own for a year . what do you have got? >> neal, vea. vanguard tax advantage. international etf . i am a believer in upon index funds and spending your investments around the world. >> ben? >> i love it . spiders. index fund. >> are they going to beat stocks. >> i don't think they would. i like adams more than bens. >> and dave asbin is next on forbes on fox. >> forget tax hikes in the new year. is the bigger worry the 77,000 pages of new regulations for

making it illegal to own more than four cats and releasing wild hogs in the wild and servie water bottles and regulations health care law. is it about to dry up the job market? hi, everybody. welcome to forbes on fox and go in focus with teave, rick and elizabeth and rich and morgan and victoria. now, rich. there are a lot of silly things and important rules and regs that are going to affect small business necessary america, right? >> you are right about that. you should look at financial regulations which makes it still hard for small businesses to get loans. health care regulations, obama care is it adding a cost burden everywhere you look behind every nook and cranny. environmental regulations that is killing small businesses.

california farmers are ruined in the protection of the certain in60s and labor regulations and last year we saw the national labor regulation war against boing. it paralyzes new hiring. >> rick, the president claims he speaks for small businesses. aren't they hard hit by these. >> actually, no. i was a maul businessman for a very long time . i got to tell you. i have the stame hastles and there is never regulations. let pee point this out. a lot of things are state base silly laws. but don't impact the economy . last year was an election year, we have a small number of regulations that are hitting us. >>