y weight.

>> ♪ batman ♪ >> play that music at the beginning of every show. >> memories of childhood. >> a caped crusader shows off his crime fighting skills. the unidentified mystery man capturing a suspect wanted for burglary and he's wearing head to toe batman out fit. the glove, the cape the mask and doesn't look as good as christian bale in dark knight, but maybe shouldn't be sharing our opinion on the air. he disappeared into the night and what is the the story? what is his story? a loaded question if there ever was one, right? >> batman has a little bit of paunch, but-- >> what a critic, jon. >> he did the job, that's all

that matters, good for him and thank you for joining us today. >> "america live" starts right now. >> megyn: fox news alert, a new controversy this hour for the president's newest cabinet choice. a woman who will likely carry forward what republicans warn will be an aggressive agenda on the climate, with big implications for the country. welcome to "america live" everyone, i'm megyn kelly. the president today naming gina mccarthy as his choice to head up the epa, environmental protect agency. she's currently the head of the air program. and critics suggest that he she has acted as the president's general in what they call the president's administration's war on coal. and she wrote a letter that angered the coal industry and sparked a debate over the trade-off between cleaner air and the impact on our struggling economy and our power grid from shutting down coal burning power plants. chris stirewalt, host of power

play. you're aware of miss mccarthy being likeable, a boston accent. she can crack a joke and warm up a room and point out that she worked for mitt romney. all of this is supposed to lead to -- lead the critics to stand down. but some in particular on the right and democrats in these red states are very concerned about her, why? >> well, look, it's no secret that the president is not been the greatest ally of the energy industry, the traditional, the carbon-based energy industry, especially coal which provides the bulk, the largest share of america's electricity. it's cheap, but the president says it's dirty and needs to go away in place of things like solar, and wind, which are more expensive, but he says environmentally conscious. >> she is, as you say, not seen as a strident figure personally who has as lisa

jackson, the epa boss that left. and probably good. she wrote the regulations under jackson and now it's her time to do a deal about the implementation of the rules that will eventually do away with coal and other cheap esident's things. y in favor so it's her job to get the deal done to be sure that these regulations outlast president obama. >> you know, it used to be that if you wanted to make a major change or major impact on climate change or green, you know, energy regulations in this country and you went through congress. the president tried to do that in his first term, unsuccessfully. his agenda was blocked. and now, he has found an end around and as a result the epa is extremely powerful right now, chris. for those at home thinking what do i care about the epa, there are a lot of coal miners out there. >> there's a lot of coal

miners out there who care, but for very much of the country, cheap or relatively cheap by western standards, electricity is dependent on coal and the energy industry says without this, energy costs for everybody are going to go up and the reliability of america's energy grid that the power does that you don't get brownouts and everybody cranks the air conditioning up is dependent on coal. so everybody has a stake in the game to that degree. but the other thing is this, and you said that congress blocked the president's global warming strategy and that's true. democrats in congress blocked the president's global warming strategy in his first term when senate democrats held sway. the president knows this is a political loser for him and for democrats that he hopes are successful in the mid term elections and so he's going to use the epa to try to push this stuff through. mccarthy-- i'm sorry. >> megyn: he has a couple of ways to go about this and the crackdown on climate change and all that is controversial, not everybody believes it's a real issue and not everybody

believes if it's a real issue given the time and economic struggles that americans are going through and adding more to their electric bill and is it necessarily going to make a lot of people happy. so he's got a few ways to go about it, because it's important to him, president obama and that's number one, trying to get it through the congress again as you point out, not likely to happen. and number two, maybe trying to get an international treaty. once again, not likely to happen, but what, that's because of senate democrats. >> that's again because of senate democrats and these red state and carbon state democrats who just aren't going to go for this. this is one of the toughest parts of the president's agenda, but as the appointment of ms. mccarthy to be his environmental protection agency director, this is something the president is very committed to and beyond the current back and forth squabbling over budget fights and everything else, i would submit this is probably the president's legacy project. getting rid of the coal industry as we know it. get reshaping the american energy industry to comport with this vision about global

warming would probably be the president's most important legacy project so she is carrying with him, his hopes and the hopes of liberal america for making this historic change. >> megyn: well, and then, so the third way is using the epa and that's what the president is now going to do in his second term, but his push on green energy projects and the loans he's made to these green companies and so on, it really hasn't been that successful in many cases. i mean, we've seen that in the news for four years now, a lot -- even though the president really likes wind and solar and greener energy, the consumers in large numbers do not and so, this is one way, the epa can sort of crack down on coal in a way that doesn't have to be responsive to what consumers want. >> and it's -- you hit it perfectly, megyn because here is the deal. it doesn't matter how effective or efficient solar or wind or anything else is. if you can use regulation to increase the price of what is

now cheap electricity. if you can make electricity more expensive then it automatic-- if you can't subsidize solar panels into being competitive, what you can do is do the inverse, you can make coal so expensive that solar panels and other alternative sources of energy are the same price. >> megyn: it's like with -- broccoli were like five cents a head and beef were $50 a pound different choices at the supermarket. >> not me, but normal people. >> megyn: that's a great point and by the end of the show i will have physical proof of chris stirewalt's love for the cow. >> that's not cool and i'll be watching. >> megyn: i'm in the shot well. (laughter) >> and chris, thank you. >> you bet. >> megyn: going to e-mail that to my producers during the break. well, as we await the confirmation process for latest nominees, president

obama is holding his first official meeting with members of his second term cabinet. the white house apparently eager to get back to business as usual especially after the president and congress failed to reach an agreement on the 85 billion dollars in federal spending changes that did, after all the hullabaloo, take effect on friday evening. yet, we're still here, here we are. now, president obama is said to be focused on moving forward with the rest of his second term, including trying to overhaul the nation's guns and immigration laws. meantime, the administration continues to raise alarm bells about the impact from those changes, those spending changes that kicked in last week. the controversy, did they overwarn. why is arne duncan the education secretary telling teachers are laid off only to find out from the washington post that's false. homeland security secretary janet napolitano says some airports are seeing impacts from the spending changes with passengers experiencing delays, she says, because the

tsa is cutting back. and ms. napolitano also warns that these things could get worse going forward. and we shall see. and in the middle of all of those warnings that some republicans are trying to remind people, that the administration does have choices when it comes to spending. according to alabama senator jeff sessions, the president's recent golf weekend with tiger woods cost taxpayers more than a million dollars, or enough money to save 341 federal workers from going on furlough. the golfing gathering happened last month during the president's long holiday weekend at a luxury, florida resort. the president and first lady also took some heat on spending taxpayer money when the first lady went out to aspen, colorado on a ski trip and all viewed by some as extravagant when the country was having the spending changes that the president is describing as potentially deeply problematic.

in rome, cardinals around the world are gathering for the first round of talks before electing the first pope. the cardinals who began the meeting with a prayer will pick the date for voting and identify the top candidates to lead the world's 1.2 billion catholics. amy kellogg live with an update from rome. >> reporter: hi, megyn, the cardinals didn't give any indication that they want today speed this up at all, but they did say that they would like to be back in their dioces in time for holy week, now, events stay in rome and were somewhat clouded by the admission by the highest that stepped down for sexual misconduct. and first time a cardinal missed a conclave because of a personal scandal and asked u.s. cardinals if they thought it would be better to have an italian pope who might have an idea how to deal with the vatican or an outsider with no connection to rome might be more effective and this was the response.

>> (laughter) >> the question, however-- >> not going to get an answer. >> there's really no way to answer that because the focus of the conclave has to be on the spiritual issues. >> reporter: no date, megyn, yet, set for that conclave, but the cardinals did pray and take an oath today of complete secrecy once that gets going and they said that taking that oath actually just reinforced to them that they are about to embark upon very extraordinary events and extraordinary voyage here in the vatican. from rome, back to you. >> sure are. amy, thank you. one of wall street's most respected and successful hedge fund managers, the guy was connected for years to george soros is now warning of a coming storm that could be even bigger than the economic collapse of 2008. up next, lou dobbs shows us what has this man so very

worried. plus, authorities in florida hoping to get a better look at a sinkhole that swallowed a man in his home, in his own bed. we will have the latest on the efforts to clear the debris and take a look just how this could have happened in the first place. >> you may remember vice-president biden suggesting in an interview you should just fire a shotgun through your door to keep intruders out if you're worried. one guy did exactly that and now he's in a whole lot of legal trouble. judge alex joins us later this hour to weigh in why the so-called biden defense didn't quite work out. >> said, jill, if there's ever a problem just walk out on the balcony here, or walk out -- put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house. hi. i'm henry winkler.

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take the scooter. >> hey give that back! >> taking things from kids is nice for me. the rest of you have to deal with the debt bomb. (laughter) >> that was fox business network's john stossel showing how government spending, particularly for entitlement programs, is robbing our nation's next generation. we're hearing a similar and perhaps more dramatic warning today from a man considered to be one of the most successful money managers in the country. stan ruckelmiller says he believes that the skyrocketing cost of social security, medicare and medicaid, advised for george soros for years and worried about social security, medicare and medicaid saying they will bankrupt the younger generation of this country and those costs pose a much greater danger than the 16 trillion dollar debt. >> now, i see a storm coming, maybe bigger than the storm we have in 2008-2010. >> well, that's scary.

and on bloomberg news. lou dobbs is the host of lou dobbs tonight. i don't know stan, but sounds like he's made billions of dollars and may be somebody we listen to when it comes to money matters. >> importantly he's one of the very few people who saw what was coming in 2007 and 8. the economic crisis that stripped trillions out of the u.s. economy. so he starts out with a pretty good recommendation for his prophetcizing. >> pretty good. >> impressive that he worked with george soros, but he was responsible for over 30% returns per year puts him in a league effectively by himself. >> megyn: even bernie madoff-- >> and he's not out of some orthodoxy.

he's an independent thinker, with fiscal policy and prudent and conservative, but this is a guy judging the world through his own light and they're pretty bright lights and worthy of our paying attention to. >> megyn: the way he talks about, he says i do care about seniors, i'm not against seniors, i'm against current seniors stealing from future seniors, he feels like we right now are robbing our own children. i've heard this before. >> right. >> megyn: people who are concerned, but for the first time in american history, instead of working hard to make sure our children are going to have a better life than we had, and turning where we're counting on them to make sure we're protected in our retirement. >> i don't think there's any question about it and we can judge that a number of ways. but first and foremost, 62 1/2% of the budget is going to entitlement programs. now, obviously, that's not all generationally related. but a great deal of it is. and the greatest aren't social security, but rather, medicare

and medicaid, which is simply out of control. but again, they relate to those folks who are getting older and that is the preponderance of that entitlement money. and it is-- it's a disaster. and what stan is getting at here is that generational conflict. we can talk about it in economic terms it and one way to express it, but it's -- the idea that older americans like me would sit there and reach out to ten-year-olds who we should be investing in their education. >> megyn: take their scooter. >> well, i'll take their scooters, all right? but i want to leave them their schools and the opportunity to move through the greatest equalizer our society has. when you listen to the conflict between the liberals and the conservatives, obama talking about all that he's going to do for poor people and the more poor people it seems as a result of what he does. the real issue is, who makes this society an egalitarian society.

do you know who they are? they're the teachers and we need to fund those schools and we need to fund education. and that funding should not be coming from the federal government. >> megyn: you look at the number of people. the strain on the system right now, according to our brain room, the year 2000 the number of people who turned 65, and already 2012, 66 each year. 9100. they're coming in by hugely increasing numbers every day, and the problem is, who is going to help pay for them? it's not just the social security. >> first of all, who said that we have to pay for somebody? listen. >> megyn: listen, people talk about minor modifications, raise the retirement age by one year and means testing for older workers. >> and remember who it is and who we are and the fact is that we've got a bunch of republicans talking in washington d.c. talking like the democrats that there's some sort of entitlement that surrounds aging in this country. my generation, the baby boomers in this country have blown it. they have been irresponsible,

they haven't saved. it is a woeful record on the part of my-- we follow the greatest generation and our legacy is pitiful. >> megyn: you know, we get e-mails from folks who say i paid into social security and i want it back. >> they ought to get it. let's talk about medicare, should they get that, too, and at what level. we have to be big grownup american adults and understand that this is isn't good for the country. and we have to understand further that the fools we've elected to washington d.c. and nearly every role,enate, the co or the white house. we've got to do better. and we've got to-- >> let me say this before i let you go. i think it'd be one thing if you said to the senior citizens right now if you give up a little, raise the retirement age and not even you, it's the next generation, if we raise the retirement age and means testing, that money will be used to help your grandchildren, but there's a distrust where the money is going to go.

>> would you trust any of the folks in washington d.c.? >> none of them. >> none of them. >> right now the highest on trust is 6% because they're not trustworthy. we had john boehner over the weekend saying i don't know how this mess is going to be resolved. talking about the sequester and the budget. by god, he's one of the three most important people in the equation in determining how to resolve it. and stan had it right. if he says there's a storm coming, pay attention. >> megyn: see the clouds on the horizon, lou, thank you. >> thank you. >> megyn: a lot of people see their gym as one of the few places of calm, places they can go and relax. imagine their annoyance when a woman refused to comply and get off the cell phone. see how the fitness center decided to deal with the woman who is complaining. and they went too far. in an exclusive interview with fox news sunday, mitt romney suggested some the problems in washington can be tracked to the tactffact that president ob seems to be campaigning as opposed to leading.

we'll have a fair and balanced debate on that. >> look, you guys i need you. uhh, it's my geico insurance id card, sir. it's digital, uh, pretty cool right? maybe. you know why i pulled you over today? because i'm a pig driving a convertible? tail light's out.. fix it. digital insurance id cards. just a click away with the geico mobile app.

>> fox news alert. president obama just finishing up his first official meeting with the members of his second term cabinet. his last cabinet meeting was just after thanksgiving and he had only -- he has only held three cabinet meetings in the last year. and less than 20 total since being elected president. he talked a little about his new team and about the automatic spending changes that kick in on friday and we will have that in just a bit for you here. meantime, a boston woman is taking on planet fitness after her membership was revoked. she says the gym's manager treated her in an aggressive and threatening manner when she accepted a phone call while exercising. but the gym's co-owner says it

was the woman who is the one behaving badly. trace has the story. >> reporter: planet fitness says there are signs all over the gym that say that cell phones can only be used in designated area and that the staff is very good about gentle reminders about getting off your phone. but gino says that there's nothing gentle about her reminder. she claims she was on the elliptical and an unexpected call from her doctor. she says her ipad was hooked up to the elliptical so she didn't leave the workout area, she says that planet fitness manager came over, was aggressive and threatening, she said, and i'm quoting here, he was enraged. i said i'd be off in a minute, he said "i said now." his demeanor was very threatening, i said oh, please, please, step away from me. the gym has a different version as you might imagine and says this woman's pass was yanked because she's a repeat offender and had repeated issues and incidents with cell phone use. her reaction when she was

approached in a professional way was extremely unprofessional and rude and dismissive. the woman claims that she's been trying to get the corporate offices on the phone for a couple of days to get her pass back. so far, unsuccessful. interestingly, in this whole story, megyn of all the things we read in the interviews, nobody came to this woman's defense. nobody. saying, no, no, no, she was fine, it was just, you know, a quick phone call, nobody. so, right now, her pass is gone. don't know if it's coming back. >> doesn't look promising. all right, trace, thank you. >> okay. >> well, in an exclusive interview with fox news sunday, former presidential nominee mitt romney delivered some eye-opening comments about the country's budget problems and coming up, why he told chris wallace that it has to do with the fact that president obama in his view is much more focused on campaigning than on leading. plus, next hour, one of the leading black lawmakers in

washington this weekend joining the list of those attacking justice antonin scalia over the hearing held at the supreme court last week, about voting rights and whether the laws that have been on the books for half a decade now are somewhat antiquated in some areas. we'll talk about it. and tragedy for the family of a florida man swallowed alive by a massive sinkhole that opened up underneath his home. coming up, we'll take you to the demolition site where crews are still trying to figure out exactly how this could have happened. >> the goal is to get the house removed, the slab rehe moved, so we can see the sinkhole. we don't know if the house is going to fall in, but we're going to take every precaution to remove that debris, if we can. clumps. [ gasps ] meet new covergirl clump crusher. big volume mascara with a brush designed to crush. 200% more volume. zero clumps. new clump crusher. from easy, breezy, beautiful, covergirl.

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this easy-to-understand guide will answer some of your questions, and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. >> winter storm watches are in effect as a massive system makes its way across the country. and janice dean says the system has both strong winds and some of the biggest snowfall totals of the the season for some areas. in some places up to a foot of snow is expected from north dakota to illinois. and the nation's capital could see more than five inches when it's all said and done. meteorologist jd, live from the extreme weather center. you know, march is coming in like a lion in some places. >> exactly right. you think the folks in d.c. are biting their fingernails. 6 to 12 inches possible? maybe. let's take a look at the storm system, the worst of it right now across the northern plains, upper midwest, ohio river valley, minneapolis, chicago, 6 to 12 inches for

you, possibly, and of course, it's going to cause some major delays on the roads and across the air. and here is your march snowstorm for tuesday. there's the travel impact, the heavy snow for chicago, minneapolis through portions of the ohio river valley and then the bulls eye between west of the d.c. area, although some of the computer models are saying 6 to 12 for d.c., west of that, 18-24 inches and then we're going to have to watch this storm very carefully as it kind of lingers off shore, so, portions of new york, up towards boston you're not out of the woods yet. we'll track this carefully. there's one of the computer models, 6-12 inches and minneapolis, iowa northern illinois, iowa and ohio and as we get into the d.c. area, 6 to 12 here, but the bulls eye really across the mountains of the virginias, we could get 18-24 inches of snow and just a quick reminder, megyn, 16 days until the official start of spring.

>> megyn: and that's the thinking, you and punxsutawney phil are the only ones to believe that. >> punxsutawney phil got it wrong, i think. he was drinking that night. see you later. >> megyn: okay. well, this weekend we heard the first big interview with former republican presidential nominee mitt romney as he and his wife ann sat down with our own chris wallace on fox news sunday. among other things, the former candidate suggested some of the country's current budget troubles can be blamed on what he believes is the president's acting as a constant campaigner. >> how do you think the president has handled the sequester, the 85 billion dollars in automatic spending cuts? >> well, no one can think that's been a success for the president. he didn't think the sequester would happen. it is happening. to date what we've seen is the president out campaigning to the american people, doing rallies around the country, flying around the country, and berating republicans and blaming and pointing.

and the president has the opportunity to lead the nation and bring the republicans and democrats together. it's a job he's got to do and a job only the president can do. >> joining me, the former assistant to george w. bush and bernard whitman a former pollster for president clinton. it was interesting hearing him accuse the president of being in constant campaign mode. now it seems there's a consensus on that in washington. that's not a left or right or mitt romney versus president obama thing. that's true, but the white house says, we have to do that because we had these obstinate republicans and we're sick of hearing no with everything. we're going directly to the american people over the republicans' heads and so, there's not a lot of denial of the constant campaign mode although there's a question of whether it's good or bad. >> well, there's a blending between campaigning, going out and using the bully pulpit and then rolling up your sleeves and doing the work. apparently the president loves to campaign, but he doesn't like to roll up his sleeves and doesn't like to meet with his own leadership. the fact of the matter is, if

the president did roll up his sleeves and invite as a matter of course every week, president george w. bush met with the leadership of both the house and senate, his party and opposition. the reason why he did it, you must stay engaged. if the president wants to sell policy, the best way to do it is to work on that policy in washington and not go out. >> megyn: is that true that president bush met with-- >> i controlled his calendar, and one thing that the president was very engaged in is meeting with not only his own leadership, but the opposition. he had to do it. it's not something that presidents look forward to because you know, when these guys come in they're usually asking for a lot, but the point. matter is you must, you must be engaged as president for policy. going over the heads of the decision makers will never get you anywhere. >> megyn: bernard, one of the things that mitt romney said was the president is berating republicans blaming and pointing at them and causes them to retrench and put up a

wall and fight back, it's a natural emotion. >> that shocked me, it's a natural emotion if you're a three-year-old child. you don't get your way and don't like the circumstances and take home your marbles and go home. and i've got to disagree with my friend brad, the best way effectuate change is to get out of washington. get the leverage of the will of the people to get the business of the president done. that's what another very effective two term president bill clinton did, and time and again. but when you have a country that's absolutely united in a particular approach that we should have tax increases-- >> are we on anything right now. >> tax increases and spending cuts, a combination to solve the deficit problem, what won the election for obama and consistently in polls, three quarters of the american people want that approach, but the republicans in congress refuse to accept that. he's got to go to the people to try to put pressure on the representatives to come to a deal that the public wants.

>> megyn: all right. >> let me tell you something, here is the president's big s thing. they repassed the budget control act. and what's the excuse for the president to be on the road campaigning when he hasn't submitted a budget to congress? there's three things that the president needs to do with that budget. how much we are he going to spend and how much revenue we're coming into and how much the deficit is going to be increased. he hasn't done any of that. how are we supposed to move on to self-inflicted wounds, continuing resolution that the president as a matter of law failed to do his job. >> megyn: one of the risks of going directly to the people and above the heads of the lawmakers. that may work if you've got credibility with the peeps, but if you don't, it's less and less effective and more waste of your time. resident a who represent him took a little bit of a hit in that department last week, in the buildup to the sequester when the education secretary arne duncan came out and said that teachers are being laid off already and pink slips already thanks to the sequester.

that turned out not to be true and "the washington post" gave it four pinochios. and the president himself said this about the janitors at the capitol last week. >> starting tomorrow everybody here, all the folks who are cleaning the floors at the capitol, now that congress has left, somebody's going to be vacuuming and cleaning those floors and throwing out the garbage. they're going to have less pay, the janitors, the security guards. they just got a pay cut and they got to figure out how to manage that. that's real. >> megyn: well, no, it isn't says "the washington post," they gave him four pinochios on that claim, too. is he losing credibility on these items by overstating his case? >> i don't think so. clearly you have to get the facts right or you endanger yourself down the road. what the president is trying to do is bring the real warld impact of the sequester to t american people. it's an obtuse term and people

don't understand it. and what people understand in the northern virginia area, is that people are going to be dramatically affected, furloughed, pay cuts and same amount of work with less dollars. >> megyn: talking about the military cuts. >> and i think we want to take this sort of abstract idea and make it clear that these cuts actually do matter so for the republicans to simply say, let's let the sequester happen and not recognize that there is he' going to be serious real-world negative impact is very, very dangerous and i've got to say, the president's approval rating throughout this has been pretty darn high. >> megyn: that's true. as a practical-- >> and going down this week. >> as a practical matter both parties let the sequester happen and the republicans submitted a plan it avoid it, the president said no. the democrats had a plan, no. they couldn't agree. truly, brad, they're irresponsible in washington and agreed to something that both sides hated thinking we'll deal with it down the road and they failed at least three, probably five times to deal with it. so they've all got -- they're all guilty. >> there's enough blame to go around, but the bottom line,

the president could stop the sequester and all he has to do is make alternative cuts, for the house and senate and-- >> and back on the subject of campaigning which is what mitt romney was expressing frustration. he wanted to see what he thought was more leadership and not campaigning. i mean, do you believe that there has been a hit to the president's credibility given what, you know, was -- may have been ginned up fears about sequester in some areas? >> absolutely, the president's primary responsibility is to assure that if the sequester happens, he's the chief executive and runs the agency to cause the least amount of disruption to the american people. cabinet secretary is out to inflate the kind of pain that's going to be inflicted upon them. the president is really did a disservice to himself by saying the sky is falling and admitting just this week that it's not going to be as bad as he said it was going to be. >> megyn: i've got to go. bernard, great to see you, brad, you, too, quickly. >> the sky may not be falling right away, but 85 billion in cuts over even 5 or 6 years is a huge impact to the american

economy when we're just start to go get the recovery back on its feet. >> megyn: we'll leave it at that. >> thank you. >> megyn: fox news alert on a regional airport in illinois getting ready for what is described as a possible crash landing by a small plane. well, you can't really say that. worried it can be a crash landing. a dangerous landing, but we're trying to get the details and exactly what's going on with the plane. trace gallagher has been tracking it, trace. >> reporter: yeah, it's an lear jet landing in st. louis. a fly by the tower and the gear is cocked to one side and the plan is to actually lift the gear or come in landing on just two of the three gear. we've seen this a number of times before, we believe there are eight people on board this lear jet, megyn and we do not know how close it is to landing, but they've done their visual. so, this clearly could happen at any minute now. what's going to happen, the pilot will come down and if that front wheel really is tweaked to the right as we saw

on a jet blue plane several years ago, what they'll do is come in and he'll flare this plane and try to land as gently and slowly as they can on the back landing gear, the rear landing gear and then as easily as possible, try and set that nose gear down so that there's very little pressure on it when he actually hits the ground. now, this is a big variable, because as you come in here, you have no idea which way the plane might get jolted, if the front landing gear is in fact turned to the side and tweaked. so, the idea here is to try and get down, as you see, it looks like he is kind of approaching for this landing right here, you try and get this thing down and then flare it and you'll see him pull back as much power as he possibly can, touch down ever so lightly and then at the very last moment he will then touch down the front landing gear. again, you try and put this on the center line of the runway, and keep it there, but when you have, as they said, the possibility of a tweaked landing gear, then it hits and

you don't know really what's going to happen after that. you could see some sparks. >> take a better look the at the gear. >> reporter: let's listen to it. here is the helicopter pilot. gentlema yeah, trace, he's going to do another fly by to look at the gear and experts are assessing what we're seeing and advising the pilot. >> reporter: yeah, yeah and the thing here, megyn, what they do, they he do a fly by. they went by the tower once and they deemed it not safe to land on those landing gears. so, they're going to go around again, you saw them retract the gear, now, he we talked about the fact that if this thing is tweaked, we've seen it done before where they actually land on the back here and they gently land on the front. it's unclear to us exactly which one of the gear has the problem. so, if they decide to land

this on the belly of the airplane, which is very possible, i'm sorry, toss it back? >> yeah, trace, we'll take it back to new york for one minute here and tell our viewers, listen we're going on a seven second delay like we do in these situations often, lest anything happen, we certainly hope it does not. bear with us, as we put the feed on seven second delay. all right. and the question is, trace. what kind of -- where is the fuel in this lear jet? our own jon scott is a pilot, just e-mailed me, suggesting he believes that the winning tip fuel tanks which may not be a good thing. >> reporter: yeah, these are wing tip fuel tanks almost assuredly, megyn. what they'll try to do get rid

of as much fuel as they can, and might fly by one more time and give the landing gear a third check. if they ultimately decide to land it on the belly. there are pilots very good at it. kind of the same philosophy and come in and slow down as much as possible and then they will kind of, they will fan the plane, if they can put the nose of the plane up and try and land on the belly of the plane and try to keep it, but then you have the wing tips which will eventually hit and then you have to come in ever so level because you do not want one of those wing tips or, you know, the tips of the airplane trying to hit the ground before you have the belly of the plane ground and stable. once it hits, it comes to a stop quickly and the question he then, trying to control it in that additional slide. >> megyn: let's listen for a second. >> what the jet is doing, and they did make one fly-by you saw just a while ago. as we looked at the gear, it looked fairly normal, but it's a little bit difficult to tell from the angle we're at,

whether or not that front landing gear might be askew a little bit. but for right now they're sitting in the air trying to formulate their plan and decide exactly what they want to do. as john noted, we also noted appeared to be some sort of military plane, a little difficult to find out when it's flying by. as it flew by us, we were as close as we could be safely and i had the lens as far as i could possibly put it it. and it it didn't appear as though the gear-- it did appear that the gear was relatively normal. that's an outside look and we can't say with certainty that it actually is normal except the back from the front one is a whole different ball game. whether or not they're going to make an approach here or go someplace else, it's up in the air based on what we've heard from the control tower, but we'll monitor from sky fox and let now if anything changes. for now that's our live view. >> megyn: and i want to tell you a couple of things. we're getting-- that's ktvi listing together

and we're hearing that they are reporting that the decide of that lear jet reads united states air force, which would be a good sign. these would be very well-trained pilots on board and we are getting jon scott, by the way, with us momentarily and in the meantime, i want to bring in dj frost, a commercial airline pilot with me now. dj, explain what you think is happening here? we don't know a lot other than it's believed to be an lear jet with up to eight passengers on board that's having some sort of landing gear problems and you heard trace describe it as the front wheel believed to be tweaked to the right. and so, the potential consequences of that. >> oh, hi, megyn, great to be back with you. you know, united states air force, and this probably has top ranking officers and dignitaries, and they'll take around the smaller lear jets and they're well-trained, absolutely well-trained pilots. what could have happened, too, when you put the gear down

normally, you get three green. they might have gotten a red indication, which brought into their mind and wondering if all the gear were down and locked and in the right position. so doing that fly-by and what i saw on the screen there, everything looked okay, they still might be having a problems with a microswitch, a wire being loose, bulbs out knowing what the gear are doing. the they're probably running the checklist and looking over how much fuel they have after landing weight and real if they need any gear down, especially the main gear, it will be a normal landing and what they'll do then, arrow dynamic breaking and slow down before they put the nose down. >> megyn: what we saw a moment ago when the aircraft got closer to the runway and closer to the camera was landing gear did come down. it looked like, i mean, to a lay person, it looked like everything came down, but the report was just that the front

wheel was tweaked to the right. so, the gear, apparently comes down, but is malfunctioning. >> right. so, at that point maybe it's not fully down and locked and that's why they would have a red indication on the nose gear light instead of the green indication, which means normal normally three down and green what we usually see for a pre-landing checklist. that's probably why they went ahead and did the fly-by by the tower and the tower is using their binoculars and see what's going on. >> megyn: who would be advising them. when they drive by-- or do a fly-by because they want to give a better look at the landing gear. who is advising them? >> could be the terror contollers or maybe even have a military officer there on the ramp that's waiting for their arrival, maybe they had him come up there to take a look, also. so they might even have some eyes on the ground to help them out better. >> megyn: any thoughts on why we would be seeing this lear jet with the united states air

force on the side of it. >> oh, yeah, they take the high ranking officers around the country to go to bases for inspections, things like that. and it's a normal part of the air force. it's a normal branch that does these things. >> megyn: when, if the problem is simply with the front wheel of the landing gear, is there a way of not putting that down, but putting the rest of the landing gear down or would that cause more harm than good? >> no, they'll just go ahead and put it down normally. i mean, if they can do -- i'm not really familiar as far as the annual gear extension within the lear jet and most of the bigger commercial jets we have a manual gear extension option. so, at this point the right now i could see the gears coming out and if you can get the gears out you definitely want tires on the pavement as many as you can. >> megyn: so what are the risks now with this? if the front wheel is tweaked to the right what is the risks if the aircraft tries to land? >> it might give you a little bit of a jarring motion,

either left or right, however, they'll be able to, i think, control any. and keep it pretty much on the runway. i don't-- i'm not worried about that at all and if they do lower the nose without the nose gear down, there could be sparks, a slight danger of fire. looks like everything is down and they should be okay. >> megyn: this doesn't scare you. >> no. >> megyn: everybody is concerned watching something like that, but as airplane problems go, you don't view this as potentially very severe one? >> no, if the plane is able to fly and keep the shiny side up as we like to say, and i see most of the gear is down, i think everything's going to turn out just fine. >> megyn: so, they'll use this gear and they'll use the tires and not land the plane on its belly? >> no, we would much rather use tires than go for the belly landing. and way back in the old days they use todd to put the foam o the runway and land in the foam, but with that practice, also--

>> a terrifying sight to see with the airway covered with foam. i have jon scott, an anchor and pilot himself, but looks like the plane may be landing momentarily. >> the rear gear is down and obviously great news, because it takes the bulk of the impact. even if the front gear has a problem they'll be able to decelerate on the runway and bleed off a lot of the energy before the front gear touches down and whether it collapses or doesn't, they'll get a lot of braking down with the deceleration after that main gear comes down. >> megyn: what's the danger to the rear gear when the front gear is not working? >> shouldn't be any. they are independently controlled. if the front gear, even to me it looks like the front gear is is okay. >> megyn: let's take a look as they attempt touchdown. >> they're still a couple of hundred feet up it looks likes.

what you don't want is the rear gear collapsing and the wing tips coming down and striking one of the fuel tanks on the tip of that lear jet. >> megyn: just as we look the at the plane and you can see the bubble on the wing, that's the fuel tank, jon? >> that's the fuel tanks on this design of the jet. >> megyn: looks like they're going back up and it's another fly-by. stand by one second because we've got trace with breaking news on this, trace. >> reporter: i just wanted to jump in here quickly megyn and say what the helicopter pilot, monitoring him, he's unclear if this is the exact plane. we've seen this plane go on-- it seems all indications this is the plane we're looking at and kind of going by the tower and getting a number of fly-byes, retracting the landing gear and bringing it back up again and we wanted to point out and we have no idea, the helicopter pilot for ktvi who is covering this, he's unsure if this is the exact plane having the landing difficulty and going back to when the first reports of the first fly by came, saying that one of the landing gear was

tweaked in a different direction than is normal. this landing gear on this air force plane all appears to be in fine working order. but again, the signals are, this guy is going by, retracting landing gear, dropping it and then coming by again. and, but the helicopter pilot said he thinks there's also another plane out there, that could be burning off fuel, getting ready for its landing, and that this air force plane may have been up there as kind of a reconnaissance plane to take a look at the lear jet with eight people on board. very fluid and clear and want today throw that into the mix and give you an idea what we're dealing with. >> megyn: yeah, and viewers, please bear with us, this is a fluid situation and trying to get our arms around the facts on breaking news. jon, does that make sense. if it were an air force aircraft that went up there to check on another endangered aircraft, why would the air force aircraft be doing the fly by and coming close to the runway and going back up. >> the only thing that i could

possiblien vision, megyn, is that the air force, if that's not the affected plane, that they're simply trying to give the tower a good look at what working gear should look like. because they'll have their, they'll have their spotter scopes on it from the tower. they'll be looking at that front wheel or which ever wheel is suspect as the plane flies by and maybe they want to get a good look at what it, you know, what it looks like normally, but i've just never heard after situation where a plane is in trouble and send out a reconnaissance plane. >> megyn: a decoy. >> to do this kind of ever thing. i have the feeling it's the air force aircraft. >> megyn: and that you think is actually a good thing? >> well, certainly, i mean, the air force has some of the best pilots in the world, obviously, even for their, you know, executive transport aircraft which is what this apparently is. so, clearly, this is going be to be a very experienced team of pilots and i'm sure they'll be able to handle this certainly better than i would. >> megyn: and now, now, ktvi, our st. louis affiliate is sending out a tg

that the air force plane that we have been showing is not the plane with the landing gear trouble. repeat, they say that this is, again, according to ktvi, the air force plane was not the plane in trouble. the correct plane is still circling the airport deciding where to land. and we're not sure other than there's trouble and looks like the air force is helping the distressed plane. >> it makes some sense when we saw the low fly-by recently and the landing gear appeared to be down. >> megyn: this is the other plane? no, this is moments ago, the air force, this is not live, this is what jon is talking about moments ago when they came down and back up. >> when you saw them down with gear apparently locked, it's surprising that they would take the chance to cycle the gear again and put it into the

belly and fly-by. generally if your gear is down and you're having problems, you don't mess with it. >> leave it down. >> megyn: is there danger flying with the gear down, danger to the aircraft? >> no, they would keep the speed down below acceptable limits there's a speed for every aircraft at which you can lower the gear. >> megyn: these are back now to live pictures above the scene. again, this is in illinois where the initial plane, a small plane is preparing for emergency landing after reporting there were problems with its landing gear, in particular with the front wheel of the landing gear and then we've got to look at what we believed was the plane. we're told it was an lear jet and it's been circling, coming close to a landing and going back up, but that's just a fly-by, we believe, to show folks in the control tower and others, one presumes, what, what the landing gear might look like, what an attempted landing might look like at the at the airport here in st. louis. and back to trace gallagher, trace? >> because it's the same kind

of plane, megyn as jon pointed out. this is an lear jet. makes sense this is not the plane, that's affected. they want to give the tower a look what it's supposed to look like and retract the gear and give it one more look so if they do one more fly-by or possibly identify that this plane that's up there now burning fuel, keep in mind, depending how much fuel they have. they have time on their side and they don't want to land for a lot of fuel with the plane. and if it's heavy they might fly around for a while and consider maybe if this is the best option for airports. they've got some fuel and you saw the emergency vehicles on the runway. they may decide to go into st. louis which is clearly going to have a longer runway to give the pilot more time to land and is going to have better emergency personnel. they may choose to land it right here. that's one of the decisions the pilot and the tower will talk over before they actually land this plane. but it seems like a dress rehearsal. the you have the air force plane coming in, the type of plane coming in to give the

tower a look and better analysis for the actual pilot on board the affected plane, than he can make a better decision and process better. >> megyn: and i don't know, are you familiar with kahokia, illinois, obviously it's not o'hare, it's a smaller rural part of illinois from the sound of it and there could be advantages it landing the aircraft there as opposed to in st. louis i want to bring our viewers just joining us up to speed on what we know. appears a small jet having landing gear trouble. the front wheel tweaked to the right and that the plane could possibly attempt it land on its back gear. we have been watching what appears to be an lear jet come in for attempted landings or so we thought. it wound up being fly-byes so we could see this plane, here it is, it's not the affected plane, but a plane with u.s. air force on the side and come down, lower it and raise it back up in the air.

we saw it a couple of times and now we're told from ktvi in st. louis that that's not the affected plane, the one that reads united states airport on the side. that there is an lear jet in danger, out a ways and we're waiting for information on that. and as we take a look at the emergency crews who are on the ground awaiting the affected plane, and its possible possible landing gear in kahokia, illinois. we're not certain whether this plane that's affected will in fact attempt to touch down in illinois or might perhaps go to st. louis. jon scott, who is a pilot in addition to a fox news anchor, is here with me on the set. is there any reason other than a longer runway that they'd go to i assume a busier airport. >> the longer runway as trace pointed out, you want to have enough runway to bleed off the speed. the plane is going to come in, resuming the rear gear is working, they'll sit down on

that rear gear and then the pilot will lift the elevator at the back of the plane and that will keep that nose off the ground for as long as possible until the air speed bleeds away to the point where the elevators are no longer effective and then the nose of the plane will slowly lower to the ground, assuming that the nose is where the problem is. you might remember, megyn, a couple of summers go, it was a jet blue flight that had exactly this problem and it came in, maybe our immediate why desk can pull that video. it was quite spectacular. the front gear was turned side ways, turned 90 degrees to how it should have been when the plane came in and there were sparks and flaming rubber, but ultimately, the nose stayed up and the gear held and everybody on board was okay. >> megyn: and now we're getting word according to laura brown at the f.a.a. this is another plane near downtown st. louis is at issue here, they're having problems with their landing gear, they do not think it's an air force plane and that we've already

told you that. take a listen. >> we suspect that it is burning that fuel just as you discuss discussed. all of these fire ap rat it t-- apparatus is waiting until the pilot makes a decision. they're staged at the base of the runway so i suspect that they can move on down after the plane-- if the plane were to land here. we'll take you in here just little bit closer and show you the ambulances that have amassed here and waiting, obviously, they're not waiting for anything imminently because they're outside of the ambulances, but they're here and ready while the pilot makes the decision and further down the ramp here and you see the helmicopter that's here and no longer running and if it should be needed for service, we're waiting as soon as we find out where the aircraft is and certainly show it to you. we're capable of showing quite a ways off, but first we have to go where it is, but if he's

burning fuel as john and i have been discussing in the helicopter, that could take a while because lear jets contain quite a bit of fuel. they're long haul aircraft across the united states so we'll have to find find out what happens here in a little while when we get a little bit more information. for now, that's our live view from sky fox. >> megyn: just to pick back up. the plane affected is believed to be 15 miles northeast of st. louis of the downtown airport and that's what we're looking at here and getting that information out cahokia, illinois. this is the downtown st. louis airport and there's a question whether this is the closest airport and whether this is the best airport for the aircraft to land in. the plane has the not landed yet and that's being confirmed by the f.a.a. and you can see with your own eyes it hasn't landed here and she's saying it hasn't landed anywhere. we're being told that there is a -- there are two longer runways here, this is said to be 7,000 by 150 feet.

this is the longer of the two runways at the airport so the plane will have to make a decision. the pilot will have to make a decision whether that's adequate and i'm sure he's advised by someone on the ground and get back to trace gallagher for the latest he's gotten. trace? >> and just two things to point out. if you go to the bigger airport, your runway is around the 10,000 foot marks to give the pilot more time to slow that plane down as it comes across and to pick up on what the helicopter pilot was saying there, about lear jets carrying a lot of fuel. they do. i mean, these things can go across the country and they're long haul aircraft and we should point out that we've been doing some homework, as far as we can find, there's no mechanism in that lear jet to dump fuel. if this thing had taken off and that's what we're trying to find out, where was it headed and where was the origination point if this thing is in fact just up there burning fuel it could be a while because we don't believe there's a mechanism there to dump fuel. you often hear hey, the pilots go over the ocean and dump fuel and land and you don't want to have a lot of fuel in

the tanks when you actually land and the reason being, as jon pointed out during the jet blue flight that landed here at lax, a few years back, when that plane finally did come down and the landing gear was tweaked. when they finally touched down on the nose gear, the sparks flew like crazy, it was kind of grinding to a nub as it made its way down the airport which by the way a lot of passengers on the flight, just started getting tv's back then, were watching this whole thing unfold back at lax, but you had that point where if you showed that video you could see the sparks just going crazy, megyn, and it's, you know, look, these tanks are very well sealed, but you don't want to have any kind of circumstances that would exten extenuate to make it worse. the heavier you are the harder the landing so they want this

plane to be light and to be able to slow down to a very good speed before it actually touches down gently on the nose gear. >> megyn: and jon scott, we're told that that's exactly an lear jet that the landing problem is doing, circling and burning off fuel i imagine in that scenario how donning would it it take? and any danger to those below with the fuel? >> no danger really on the ground. as long as you're able to dissipate that in the air. and, yeah, they're going to -- as trace said, you don't want to bring an airplane in heavy. the lighter it is, the easier it is on the systems, you know, on the landing gear and so forth. so, fuel is a major part of the load and so, by burning up or dumping, if they were able to, by burning up that fuel, you lighten the load. when it does come down and perhaps, the gear, stricken though it might be, is going be to be able to do most or all of its job. >> megyn: what would they normally do at an airport in a situation like this as we take

a look at our local reporters who are covering the situation? would they normally shut down the airport? >> yeah, oh, yeah. they would do that now. again, it will be probably a joint decision between the f.a.a., the tower, and the pilot. i mean, for instance, if i were in a place like this and circling new york i'd probably want to go to stuart. the stuart airport north of new york city has an enormous runway, i think it's 13,000 feet long or something like that. >> megyn: let's take a listen to the local pilot. >> and the nose gear, none of his underbelly tanks are going to touch the ground in theory, as long as the main gear holds up he should be able to hold it straight down the runway and come out unscathed. yeah, they do, dan, bleed off the air speed and do a smooth a landing on the main gear as possible and then you just hold that nose up as the air speed bleeds off. an lear touches down around

110, 120 miles per hour and the nose he can hold up to about 80 miles per hour. that's still moving at a good clip, but nevertheless, it's a lot slower than the 120 causing less sparks and that's what i said though, there's no fuel contained in the belly or the nose and that's definitely a plus in an lear jet. >> megyn: now, we're just being told, we're getting word that this, this plane may have been coming from worcester, ohio, following a flight plan to downtown st. louis and again, that they are circling now, but we're told that the first call came in around noon, i believe that's central time, that there was a problem. we first got word of it 1:45 eastern time so that would make some sense. jon, can you explain to, you know, we lay people why a tweaked front wheel is more dangerous than no wheel at all. it seems you'd rather have nothing than one that would push you on one direction or the other. >> it's really not.

because when you're coming in at that speed. it's actually your tail doing most of the steering for you. obviously having a tweaked, a sideways front wheel isn't going to help you, but the air rushing past your tail is really what's going to keep that plane lined up down the runway at those speeds. >> megyn: and so what he was saying is what your you were saying. trying to keep the belly, the nose of the plane up just to kill the speed and then, how fast will the plane be going when they try to touch the nose down? >> i just, i'm taking it from the helicopter pilot. i don't fly an lear jet, but i'm guessing that the chopper pilot said about 80 miles an hour which is still significant, obviously. >> megyn: right, right. >> but you're coming in for landing at about 120 and you bleed off about 40 miles per hour of speed and 40 knots, roughly. and then that nose gear touches town. >> megyn: and is dj frost still with us? the commercial pilot with us by phone momentarily, a moment ago. is he still with us, guys? no, he's not.

we're going to try to get him back. but i'm wondering, jon, you've never been in this situation, we call john the macguyver of fox news, and you talk about s snow he's one, and flown one. and if there are any passengers on board that flight. is there anything nethey can do to help? >> no, stay seated and seat belts tight and follow the pilots instructions. it's going to be a clincher of a landing and everybody is going to be paying attention on this one. >> megyn: and just to let folks now, it's keeping, keeping the situation relevant to the other news of the day, we are told that this airport is not on either list released yesterday by the f.a.a. in terms of any airports affected by the sequester, the budget changes that went into effect on friday. so that you're aware. again, so we are awaiting the arrival of an lear jet, what we believe is an lear jet, we

do not know the number of people on board, we know it's reported they're having landing gear problems and both of the pilots who we have with us today. jon scott and dj frost, a commercial airline pilot, tell us that this should be handleable. it's a problem that's not-- all of these things are potentially catastrophic, but it should be handleable by a trained pilot as we watch the u.s. air force attempt to help this lear jet by at least doing fly-byes that might mimic what the lear jet is going to experience and perhaps give information to those in the control tower at least. dj is back, dj frost. were you the pilot on board a flight such as this? is there anything? do you believe the passengers are being told to sit in a certain way, to brace for impact? what if anything do you tell the passengers at a time like this. oh, absolutely. you'll make sure everybody knows the correct position and what to do when you do give the brake signal for the the emergency landing and right now, too, they're making sure

they're running the checklists and making sure that everything has been done that they need to do and it's the bottom line, as long as you're not on fire and the your flight controls are working, everything is pretty much under control at this point. so, that that's the only thing, just making sure that everything has been covered in the checklist and that they do have a plan. and that's a plan that's not only for the approach and landing, but also what to do after they land and possibly an evacuation could come after that. >> megyn: jon? >> and also, dj, probably asking the passengers to move to the far of the rear of the aircraft as possible and center of gravity, do you think? >> could be. however, in an lear jet, not much room to move. >> and especially eight people on board could have every seat filled. >> megyn: and tell me about the jet. >> i guess i've been on one or two. it's a fairly small aircraft and that one model with the wing tip tanks is a fairly

hold lear jets as lear jets go. still building them today. >> megyn: you're talking about the jet blue incident and that happened at this airport? >> no, that was happening in l.a. trace was reminding me of that. i can't remember which airport it it happened at. >> megyn: there's video of it. >> there it is, that's what happens, that's what it looks like your front wheel. it was twisted 90 degrees so the way it was supposed to be when it came in for a landing. so, obviously, that tire is not-- and there you see the sparks at that trace was referring to. >> megyn: how dangerous is that when you've got wing tip fuel tanks as opposed to where they are in this plane? >> sparks and fire are never a good thing around an aircraft, but better that the gear meld in this particular situation and kept the belly of the plane um. the worst of the situation in this situation that we're talking about is the potential for one of the main gear, left or right rear gear, to fail, because then the plane lurches

violently one way or the other and then you have the potential for the wing tip tanks to strike the ground and potentially be punctured and sparks fly and then a real problem. >> megyn: this is just breaking we're getting word the lear jet with the nose gear problem is diverting away from this airport to lambert airport. i want to get to trace gallagher with more, trace? >> reporter: we're trying to find out where lambert airport is, megyn and-- i'm sorry? so, st. louis international airport. we were talking about it, the decision has been made that it's going to st. louis, also known as lambert field for a couple of reasons, john articulated one is the longer runway and you saw this jet blue plane there. when that jet blue plane came in i was right there on the runway along the runway as it landed and a couple of amazing things about it, how slowly the plane was coming in. you see how they land every day. how slowly on a touchdown and

how long the pilot was able to hold that nose gear up before touching it down and you saw there when the sparks flew, the amazing thing about it, if you looked at the white line down the middle of the runway, that pilot kept that runway dead set on that line and when it it came to a stop it was touching the white line. a miraculous job before the miracle on the hudson was dreamed about. so, lambert field, st. louis international has a longer runway and we'll find out how long, clearly 10,000 feet or above which will give the pilot a lot more time to bleed that speed off. and they also have, our understanding, better emergency personnel should something go wrong. so, they've dealt with these types of things before and they've got better emergency personnel, a longer runway and giving the pilot more options, also, a wider runway. so, this is 150 feet, at this cahokia airport in illinois. you'll have more work room and

something happens and you tweak at that plane one way or the other the pilot has a little more room to work. >> megyn: we're going to listen to the chopper pilot again. >> even close to lambert at this stage of the game and we may or may not have success with that. we want to let you know that. if you see the helicopter turn circles here, you'll understand why. but in terms of just manpower, yes, there would easily be, i'm sure four or five times the amount of equipment at lambert than there would be. and although when you're talking about a small jet, a private lear jet, still a jet, but nowhere near the size of a commercial jet and i suspect that the people at hartz would have done just fine, but the comfort level of the pilot is what's important right now because of the other people on board, the pilots, rather, because the other people on board with him. so, you never blame anyone for doing what they're most comfortable with. but they certainly would have far more equipment.

>> . >> as we watch, the fox helicopter on its way over to the --. >> jon has shut off and the station shut off at this point when we're headed into controlled air space like lambert, obviously, he's got to fully-- >> as we watch the fox helicopter fly over to lambert for an intended landing there, we're told this is the airfield where they'll attempt their landing and i want to ask about the jet blue video one more time. this plane that we have not yet actually seen. we've seen a u.s. air force plane doing a fly be-by in some way to assist. there was a jet blue plane in 2005 that had to land despite the landing gear problem and what the lear jet is suffering from. it's a beautiful landing by

the pilot considering the problems they're having. what are the additional challenges posed by the fact that this is not a huge commercial jetliner? >> it's just that you don't know what's going to happen as these jet blue pilots did not. they didn't know whether their landing gear would collapse, in which case, you know, all of a sudden, the cockpit is going to be slamming to the ground and potentially, potentially, you know, snapping, snapping that aluminum fuselage. in this particular case, the landing gear held. that was a huge benefit to them as they tried to control that airplane. once the nose hits the ground or i said worst case scenario, if the rear gear were to collapse on one side or the other, there's a situation where the plane can cartwheel, spin around side ways. >> some folks on twitter suggest that the lear jet doesn't have integral fuel tanks and-- >> a chance of that. >> i was going on the basis of

the air force plane flying that at first we thought was the plane. those are wing tip fuel tanks. >> you can see them at the end. and does that change your assessment of the dangerous situation here, if it's integral inside the wing as opposed to the bubble on the end of it? >> well, it's probably, it's probably better, i know that in, i've never had wing tip fuel tanks, but some of them are designed essentially to snap off in case of impact and they have valves on them that close so that the fuel doesn't come spraying out. >> it's incredible when you think of the safety mechanisms on board the planes and not just the commercial jetliners, obviously, lear jets are expensive aircrafts and all of them are out closet they provide for the pilots. i want to bring in dj frost, i'm told you've flown into this airport in st. louis many times, dj. can you give us perspective on it? >> sure, two big long parallel runways, and better

maintenance facilities and of course, the top crash fire and rescue there because it's been an airport for a major airplane, t.w.a. and hubs there, no question a great decision to go there. >> megyn: at this point would you assume that they know exactly how many passengers are on board this plane and what the flight plan was and they're in constant communication, you would assume, with the pilot. >> sure, in an emergency situation the pilot is going to give souls on board, fuel endurance, and they have a whole laundry list of items you have to give to air traffic control in an emergency situation. >> megyn: do they bring somebody in? i was asking you this earlier. is it just the air traffic controller who would be advising the pilot on this or do they bring in some sort of a flight expert? >> well, actually, they have time, they could actually be on another line and talking to their maintenance facility, to the company who owns the aircraft. so, they could be talking to maintenance people on the ground, maybe to help trouble

shoot this, before they even try and land. >> megyn: but what about some pilot, air force pilot, on, one presumes that the pilot of the lear jet has sufficient experience, it it can never hurt to get a second opinion? >> sure, that's why you'd rather talk to maintenance personnel and not just another pilot, but a maintenance personnel could actually look up things in a manual, look up past precedent as far as something that happened before on the airport and what could they have done differently and they can do something to trouble shoot before they attempt to make an emergency landing in st. louis. >> megyn: it's unbelievable, jon, if you think about that, in real person terms, that those pilots could be communicating with mechanics who are flipping through the manual right now. >> sure. >> megyn: on front landing gear trouble. >> i'm guessing that they probably have some of the engineers from the lear company involved in this as well. they're probably trying to go through the checklists and

manuals it to he see what else might be available to them. not clear to me whether this is more than just a light on the dashboard, on the panel. >> megyn: this could be an electrical malfunction telling there was a problem when there isn't. >> i hate to he remind people. there was an eastern airlines jet that crashed in the everglades in the '70s because the pilots, they had a light off, the indicator light at that tells them the nose gear wasn't done and got so distracted by that, bumped a couple-- turned off the autopilot and that plane in the darkness over the everglades, hit the muck and a number of people were killed all because a light bulb burned out on the panel. >> megyn: wow, wow, that's incredible and what dj was saying, most likely we had a red indication in the cockpit that would have indicated the problem and here if that's the case once the aircraft gets closer to lamb boert and we've got sky fox in the air and we

will be able to he see it momentarily. >> if they do have a twisted or tweaked gear, nose gear, that the tower will get a good look at it. i would think that they must have somehow identified that already, otherwise why send the air force crew by to do the fly-byes we saw earlier. >> megyn: the air force confirming that those were touch and goes by their jet at the airport. touch and goes and that the jet with the landing gear as we know is a civilian aircraft. this plane we're told by f.a.a. the plane in trouble is still 40 miles away from lambert airport and we're told that the pilot is still trying to quote, trouble shoot. jon, is there anything that you about that you could do on board short of dumping the fuel, to double shoot a landing gear problem? >> i'm guessing they would just be cycling the gear, just dropping it and trying to pull it back up. and dropping it and again, and seeing if they get that indication on the panel that, now, everything is okay. there are lots of switches,

obviously, lots of circuit breakers and you know, switches that you would cycle through on a jetliner like this, you know, maybe there's an electrical problem somewhere or a fuse not in position, but may be trying to do. >> megyn: dj, what do you make of it? unfortunately those of us who are not familiar with flying commercial aircraft or other aircraft have a limited field of knowledge when it comes to this. such as the movie "flight" and people believe you can flip the airplane belly up and all sorts of heroic measures that the pilots can take. realistically what can a pilot with landing gear do in the sky that would be considered trouble-shooting? >> the thing is we have a fuel reference manual, quick reference manual, handbook and we go ahead and follow the recipe that people have developed for use in emergency situations. sometimes it doesn't address every situation, however, if he pretty much follows the recipe then you're going to have to accept what you have.

and in this situation, maybe you won't have a nose gear, so, they'll go ahead and deal with that situation then. but sometimes you just can't rectify it in the air, but as long as you're not on fire and working hydraulics, and the engines are running fine, it's a perfectly good airplane and come to a very well-- well thought-out solution, they're going to be okay, no problem. >> megyn: from your lips to god's ear we hope and pray you're right. we're told that the aircraft has now turned and lining up for a landing. we believe this aircraft will attempt touchdown or at least the fly-by momentarily. i want to ask you, as somebody familiar with the airport, dj, this is a busier area, lambert, st. louis international airport about ten miles northwest of downtown st. louis, top five the busiest airports, 12 million passengers a year. a this will be a populated area. i assume there's he no risk to

the population when you're talking about a landing gear problem as opposed to something that might happen to the plane in flight? >> no, what they're going to do, they're going to get on a very long final, they might be having 30 mile straight in final to the airport. air traffic control is going to clear the area, clear the traffic because they're going to get the airplane priority handling and get on their speed and configured almost for like a normal landing and they have two main gear, as long as they touchdown and everything holds fine they'll go ahead and lower the nose gear and what they'll do, they'll control the aircraft, and keep it straight on the runway, and they'll be okay. >> megyn: and what kind of emergency services would you expect to be on the ground there today? you mentioned earlier, the foam on the runway while thankfully this has never happened to yours truly. i've had friends on aircraft where they did this, landing gear trouble. as they came in for landing, they saw the foam and the fire

trucks and the ambulances lining the runway, it's very disconcerting for the passengers on board and yet, maybe it's a comfort check, something that they can do to help on the ground. no longer? >> i'm not sure if they do that much anymore. they will have the emergency vehicles on the runway and just like the jet blue there, it had some sparks, but didn't turn into any kind of wildfire that was out of control or anything like that. >> we're told that the f.a.a. is restricting over lambert airport. that's what you would expect, no, dj? >> absolutely, they're clearing the air space, once you declare an emergency in an aircraft, you own the air space. and the f.a.a., air traffic contollers are going to clear all airplanes out of your way to make sure that you can do whatever you need to do to safely land that aircraft. >> megyn: what do they do with the other aircraft that are about to come in a landing there? >> go ahead and put them in some circular holding pattern,

off to the side. and the people running short of fuel they're going to go ahead and go to the all the in the airport at that point and refuel and go into lambert later on this afternoon. >> megyn: we're told that the emergency crews are now staged on the runway at lambert, so, they are prepared, although it's not entirely clear to us whether the plane is coming in for a landing or just how close it was. we've been hearing it was getting closer that it was 40 miles out about ten minutes ago, but now, now, our information is changing that they are not now lining up for a landing. so, it could be they're still circling and dumping the fuel. how long would that take, jon scott? by the way, took off from worcester, ohio. how long would it take to dump the fuel? >> depends how much is on board. jets are not like cars if you're going to set off on a long trip in your car and you generally fill the fuel tank. on a jet that might be a waste if you're flying only 300

miles, ohio to st. louis depending where in ohio they were wouldn't probably be much more than that, you don't want to actually generally take off with a full load of fuel because then you're burning a lot of fuel to lift that extra weight. so, he might have taken off with, say, half filled fuel. >> megyn: didn't go very far if they're coming from worcester, ohio. >> that's right. and it's a variable, every flight is different. >> megyn: we assume if engaging in burning off fuel they have the game plan. they've spoken with the mechanics and perhaps a pilot and advising them and giving his or her thoughts from the ground. you don't want to burn off fuel and put yourself in position where you've got to get the aircraft down before you know exactly how they're going to do it. >> they'll do it all judiciary and keep the thing in the air while most likely, the pilot is going through that checklist that jd was talking about earlier and perhaps

having the co-pilot doing the circle and that's crm, cockpit resource management they call it, one person assigns a role to each of the crew members and that's what they'll work from. >> megyn: i don't want to give people a false sense of security or fear as we watch this. dj is a commercial airline pilot and feels confident and said repeatedly they're probably going to be okay. we hope that's what happens. and you feel the same? and given your expertise in the area. >> we may see the nose gear collapse which would be frightening, but again, even if it collapses generally you'll stay pretty much on the centerline of the runway and these runways at lambert are 200 feet wide. 150 feet wide. that's a whole lot of runway if you've got a relatively small plane like a lchln lear j. >> megyn: how important is the weather? >> it looks like a reasonably clear day. you wouldn't want to do this

in a downpour i would think. >> megyn: what about the cross winds that you pilots talk about? >> well, they'll line it up. i mean, you always land and take off into the wind. so, which ever runway-- whichever runway they're actively using probably the one most aligned with the wind. they wouldn't want to do this in a significant cross-wind. in that case they'd probably choose different airports lined up with the wind direction. >> megyn: we were talking about aerodynamic braking, what does that mean? >> they're simply using, you're getting the plane on the ground and letting the air speed bleed off naturally. if you've ever landed at reagan airport in washington. >> megyn: many times. >> they jam on those brakes, some of the shortest runways in commercial aviation and some of the big jets really have to brake hard. >> megyn: been there. >> to lose that speed and you feel that as a passenger. in this case they'll try not to use the brakes at all.

if they can decelerate naturally by letting the friction bleed off the momentum. >> megyn: let's listen in again. we've got it now, but obviously, we're, you know, we're probably three miles from where they are and so, that's-- this is what kind of shot we get at three miles, you can tell what's there. it does not appear to be that there is any fire of any kind, so, at this point i'm sure that they're just trying to get out of the aircraft and heir day. meanwhile, the airport is still running, you can see the southwest jet there and they will go to another runway and taxi by and before long they will have someone out i'm sure to take this airplane and try to get it, the front uprighted a bit and tow it out of here so it's off of the main runway, as for now it would appear to be down as safely as it can be, it's a little difficult for us to tell at levels of damage, but it does appear to have landed relatively well.

>> megyn: unbelievable. so the pilot, who you've been listening to, is talking about how the plane has landed. at least according to him. and that he says this is according to ktvi, and the helicopter, that the airplane landed i guess you could say without incident, other than the dangers and distress call. and that's what we're told this moment by ktvi, that the aircraft has landed safely and now is on the ground and see the spot shadow on it so you can get a better look although it's tough to see and now we're trying to confirm this is in fact the plane because we've had conflicting information what plane it is, and whether it's ready for a landing and the camera wasn't exactly on it. so not exactly clear right now. yeah, it appears that the jet has landed and thankfully safely, jon, from the look of it. >> the old expression in

aviation, it's better to be on the ground wish you were in the air than being in the air wishing you were on the ground and don't you know, there are eight people on board that flight, at least the number we understand, who are very happy to be on the ground. >> megyn: can you imagine the relief. no matter how experienced a flyer, and you're experienced behind the wheel of a plane. you've got to be somewhat terrified. >> yes, yes an understatement. >> megyn: at least some liquor. >> cut to the chase, megyn. >> megyn: it's not jet blue like the one hour shuttle. it's like lear jet. you hit yourself over the head with a bottle. that's what i have to did in my current condition, just knock me out. jon scott, thank you so much. and dj frost, thank you to you as well and that happily we believe concludes the drama in the sky on this monday afternoon. so we will love on to other news and bring you an update from st. louis to the extent there is another one.

well, there are new attacks right now on a supreme court justice after antonin scalia turned some heads with his comments on the voting rights law. this is the law that makes certain states with a history of discrimination have to go to the doj. go to the feds and ask for permission before they change their laws. well, he made some comments on the bench that have gotten people fired up. why a leading black lawmaker says scalia's position can be summed up in two words, white and proud. that's next. [ male announcer ] hunt...farm...or trail...

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>> supreme court justice antonin scalia is under fire by some civil rights activists for comments he made during oral arguments over the future of the voting rights act. now, this is a law that makes these states with a history of discrimination have to report to the feds and get a permission slip, basically before they change their voting laws because there's a

concern they'll do something that is damaging to minorities attempt to go vote. and justice scalia seemed to suggest that the federal government no longer needs to keep an eye on southern voting in this way, that folks can just bring individual lawsuits if there are cases of discrimination like they do up north. and the way he phrased it, saying what congress is doing is voting for a quote, racial entitlement, got some people very fired up. including democratic south carolina congressman jim cliburn, the third most powerful democrat in the house who slammed justice scalia saying in part, quote, i'm not surprised by anything, but that took me to a someplace i haven't been in a long time. what justice scalia said the 15 he amendment of the constitution got nothing for me because i'm white and proud. and jay sekulow and julian from the house judiciary committee. and i mean, that's pretty

incendiary to suggest that justice scalia in trying to make his point up there is trying to communicate i'm white and i'm proud. let me start with you on this, julian. >> i would not have used that language. it's not at all the characterization i would have used for justice scalia. i also wouldn't have used justice scalia's term about the voting rights act as being a racial entitlement. it was renewed in 2006 with almost unanimous support including support from republicans and it's done a lot of good. in mississippi this was requirement to register twice and struck that down and everybody agreed including republicans. in the year 2002, when arizona passed a redistricting law it could disenfranchise lots of hispanics, the bush justice department struck that down. so, i think it is -- it wasn't the right thing necessarily for congressman cliburn to use that language. i wouldn't have used it. i respect him, a friend, a wonderful guy. but i also think that justice

scalia's term in calling this racial entitlement was not quite in keeping with the bipartisan history of this. >> before we move onto the substance of it, and julian got to that, as the second point. you know, i took issue with this last week with some others name calling against justice scalia. the reason in part it bothers me as somebody who covered the high court for years and practiced law for years. you've got to understand that these supreme court justices cannot come out and defend themselves. they don't speak publicly. they don't get the opportunity to come out and say, oh, this is why i said that and, you know, then to say, look, that's unfair bus -- we're so lucky that all nine of these justices those on the left and right are willing to serve us. they could all be earnings millions of dollars out there in private practice, but they're willing to serve and they have to sit there like sitting ducks and take, fine, they could take their licks and i'm sure they can take these, too, as a lawyer, doesn't that bother you to hear that kind of charge? >> well, as a lawyer, as a practicing in the supreme court, in addition to being an

admitted to the bar you're an officer of the court. as an officer of the supreme court of the united states i find it it despicable that would use that kind of language about the justice of the supreme court. whose statement was not that much out of a legal mindset and the legal mindset justice scalia was saying, look, a law was passed happened a decade ago, facts have changed. those factual changes may in fact impact the constitutionality of that statute that is a half a decade old. that's not some controversial statement. the media is making this out to be, and some on the left are making this out to be as if, you know, justice scalia made some racial statement that is inappropriate. he did nothing of the sort. all he said was, pointing out a fact. you look at the facts now, and massachusetts had the worst ratio of voting as far as minority voting goes and white majority voting goes. massachusetts was the worst. so when you look at a law that's been in place over a

half decade you know, facts and circumstances can change and that will impact the constitutionality of that statute and that shouldn't be a controversial statement the fact that he said it, it's being voted on almost autopilot which it is in the congress and gives it look of racial preference that we're going to do it because we've always been doing it. not a controversial statement, but you're right, megyn, he doesn't get to defend himself. although as someone on the receiving end of justice scalia's questions he's capable of doing that. >> megyn: he doesn't need me or you. and justice ginsburg as well and by the way, those two are said to be good friends, justice ginsburg and scalia. if the left and right on the high court can get along, why not the rest of the country. julian, a bigger problem we're not going to solve today. on the question of justice scalia accusation by some, that some on the left or using this and trying to gin up controversy about this and trying to paint justice scalia as racist or insensitive racially when it's understood

that what he was trying to say was sort of what you were saying which is that it passed unanimously in the last vote and he was saying that the numbers of folks voting for the voting rights act has gone up and up over the decades and indisputebly, at the polls, while still present has gone down and down and down and the reason the politicians do that, they don't want to see as voting against the act. and you may need the high court to come in and say, look, it's no longer necessary. >> look, i don't know that i would social myself with justice scalia's comments, i think the objections ofi would social myself with justice scalia's comments, i think the objections of the left objected because as use of the words racial entitlement, pejorative and-- >> but he didn't say it pejoratively. >titli think that's in the eyes of the beholder. >> julian, before you-- butitllet me just-- bu> a racial statement as pejorative. look at the transcript and

ook look look look look !scrtiv sd ook look look look look !scrtiv said. the act has been put in place and no doubt since the decades since the civil rights act was passed things have changed and seems to him as-- bu> i'm trying to respond, i'm trying to respond to your question. >> megyn: julian, you have the floor. >> i was trying to respond to question before you interrupted me. >> yes. butitlso my point is as many on the left you saw that-- >> and go ahead, go ahead. bu> i think many on the left and others saw it as a pejorative term, using the word entitlement. the purpose of voting rights act is discrimination that's ongoing. the bottom line is that the act is in trouble and i predicted accurately on the show i'm doulook !ful as to whether it will survive the constitutional scrutiny. i think it should because i think if you look at the covered states, states like louisiana, mississippi, georgia and south carolina, vircovniy. they still at the safety legislators are the most underrepresented states

in terms of minority representation in the state legislators. if you look the at ongoing issues that we have like redistricting, redistricting has become just an unbelievable mess with gerrymandering gespong on in many, many states and gerrymandering. butitlon all sides. bu> for political purposes, whether or not there's a racial tinge there or not. what the dispute rediout. but no question that gerrymandering-- >> we don't have time to talk about geicty. bu> and we talked about-- >> jay, let me finish the point, i don't interavept you. butitlmegyas- quickly. >> i think you've had more than i have. >> md abina: julian, quic y. butitlthe pespont on voter i.d. again another issue where you have potentially 21 million people disenfranchised from voter i.d.'s and in one didn't agree, doesn't exist. bu> voter iick. is not the topic of conversation. at issue here is a statement made about a sitting justice of the supreme court of the united states, basically accused of being a racist because he made a statement it

seems to him that the legislation is automatically renewed as if it was an entio aement and things change in 50 years and massachusetts has the worst voting proportion of representing minorities including black citizens of united states and mississippi has the highest ratio, so, this whole idea what justice scalia said and that's the topic what we're supposed to be discussing and that topic is ridiculous and repulsive as an officer of the court that a member of the united states congress would do that. >> md abina i'okay, thank you bh so much. you would have thought that that was kelly's court, but it wasn't. up next, the real kelly's court. a university of north carolina student says she may get kicked out of school for allegedly intimidating her allegedly rapist by speaking out publicly about other assault. kelly's court takes up her case ne wo. ounds ] hi, i'm ensure clear... clear, huh? i'm not juice or fancy water. i've gotine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach.

session. on the docket today, the colllate student who says she may get kicked out of school for intimidating her alllated rapist. a sophomore at unc chapel hill says last spring she reported allegedly being raped by another student. she didn't report it at first, but when she ultimately did, the studenymaaven honor court, they were more skeptical of her than her alleged attacker. >> the whole time in the honor court they were asking victim-blaming questions, why hadn't i left him earlier and instead of aen ing him why did you do what you did? >> joining us is lis wiehl and allyicalk, she says that she's being brought up for honor code charges because she's

speaking out against somebody who is her alllatedly rapist? >> it's outrageous. if she's manufacturing this against her accuser or really didn't just get justice, ort either way a lito ae things called the constitution allows them to express themselves. she filed a complaint with the depicaltment of education >nuicaly of 2013, alleging it, unc is allowing a hostile enle ronment for someone who has been abused and now they've got a legal muzzle on her and i find this to be abhorrent. >> md abina i'the thing is, thi guy the alleged rapist was trg qd in the school forum. nt.e didn't file criminal charges. he was tried in this-- bu> wer t an honor court. estredilint.ed in 1875 this thi school. why is an honor court, self-reenllated student bus y trying matters of sshe'sual assault? it doesn't make sense to me.

>> md abina i'do we knng to r t answer? >> they've had it instituted since 1875, and they're no longer trying the sshe's isl cas and-- >> if she says she was raped and apparently had a relationshihanwith this enlne e nted in high school and freshman at the school. why i, m't she gespong to the police and wer t is she gespongo the honor court at unc chapel hill. bu> that's a mpmatery and we don't knng to r. let's understand what this means. some untrained honor court people found there wasn't sufficient evidence. surprise, surprise, the date rape scenario is d brpelcur restriction on her ability to let others knng to r, not only t this enly is le olent, but also, that unc is probably not the right place to vespoce any concerns about sshe's isl assau. >> megyn: and he says his lawyer comes out tus ay and sapma his client is allyischicalacterized as a rapi and also facing threats of le olence he says because of her faa se allegations.

>> that's where you get into the first amendment. f and this honor court found he wasn't guilty of these assaur look it's defamation, i'm afraid to go on cpma pus now, all of that, but it just doesn't-- none of this makes any sense to me or rings true. we're not talking about administrators here, not talking principals or teachers, we're talking students judging other students here on something as dire as sshe's isl assault. butitliligyas- hng to r can the down her right to speak, effectively mark, yes, she lost at the honor court, but she's got this other complaint pending and some complaints pendine unone criminal, but complaints pending. how can they shut down her right to talk rediout what happened? f let's understand something, when she spoke to administrators she was promised that when her, her abuser returned to campus, because he volunticalily. bu> alleged. >> alleged. they would then inform her when he returned. toer picalents called

out he'd returned to campus only right across the street and f happened if she ran into him. >> exactly. bu> what was she supposed to do f i don't think you waive all of your ry'vhts br you go to the police, a lot of victims of sexual assault don't want to go to the police, but they don't want to be in the dorm across from them with the man they had the problem timther. >> and went to the honor court and told from the honor court from the beginning you'll get a famy process here and we'll take care of you and let now if he comes back and suspended toim. none of those things happened, megyn, now she's looking at a paper from the honor court saying, hene you may be sup homies?! thank you panel, so my ah. we'll be right afck. what's the 411? i can meet you in the car. nah, bro! i'm cool. i'm just chillmaxin'. is there something that you wanted? we can't just spend a little qt as a posse? on the download? dad, why are you talking like that? i was just hoping you would give me the last piece of bacon.

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