>> absolutely, available on bill o'reilly.com, the dvd's and see us in long island, and check out the website. i hope everybody this a great time and see the bolder fresher back stage show on friday, and pontiac, illinois, thanks for defending catholics e, mike, i frame my comments in light of the scandals. catholic charities do more good work around the world than any other charity on earth and they got priests and nuns in the middle of the kongo risking their lives every day and these people have been diminished by the savages who did the terrible things and they diminish every bit of scorn that we can give them. but let's not wipe out the whole institution because of a few bad guys. >> no, i got you. >> and finally tonight the factor tip of the day, you know life is tough when ducks begin making fun of you. take a look at mallard

fillmore, tinsley knocking my expulsion of wheat and everybody should know that ducks don't like wheat either. since i cut out the gluten, my cholesterol is down. and you see most has wheat in it it that doesn't do good, bulks you up, want to feel better, cut down on the wheat. check out the factor website different from bill o'reilly.com. and o'reilly@foxnews.com, name and town, if you wish to opine. and there will be no hokerring, and no, no, we can't find it. and first one to e-mail me with the definition of hokerine book.

rather, the spin stops here and that's why we're looking out for you. >> sean: and welcome to "hannity," time we're all breathing a sigh of relief as the apocalyptic of president panic about the sequester fallout, shockingly, they didn't come true. three days after the sequester went into effect, america is still standing and emergency responders are still working and planes are still flying and now, as the dust has begun to it settle we're seeing the real impact of this bugetary measure and even the anointed one has had to tone down his fear-mongering and is spinning is more positive yarn than last week. >> we're going to do our best to make sure that our agent, tries to make some very difficult decision, understanding that there are going to be families and communities that are hurting. and that this will slow our growth. it will mean lower employment in the united states than otherwise would have been. but we can manage through it.

>> sean: yeah, we'll manage through. and while the president continues to refuse to admit his role in the sequester, his own men, the people that work for him, apparently can't lie for the liar in chief anymore. >> we know, everyone knows that the president wanted enforcement mechanism that included revenues on the most well off. the speaker insisted, the republicans insisted that this be an enforcement mechanism that would be on all spending cuts because we were forced to do that, it is true we suggested going back to the graham rudman hollings mechanism. i think the president was overall right that the idea of a cross the board, all spending cut was the idea of the republicans, but yes, we put forth the design of how to do that, but david-- >> which was the sequester? >> i guess i can safely say now the president lied because just this past october while deep in the presidential campaign, the president emphatically denied proposing the sequester. this all happened in the third presidential debate.

let's take a look back. >> first of all, the sequester's not something that i proposed, it's something that congress has proposed. it will not happen. the budget that we're talking about is not reducing our military spending, it's maintaining it. >> sean: i wonder if the president would agree this is a clear example of misleading you, the american people. i guess after weeks of fear mongering, and honesty is not the best policy for this white house. here with reaction, former florida congressman allen west. you know, i have two kids. my kids, you know, like all kids get in a little trouble here and there, congressman and when they're in trouble, that's fine. but if they lie about it it, that's when they get in really big trouble. the president straightout lied to the american people and nobody in the media with a support level of 6% seems to care, but me, i guess. >> sean, it's great to be with you. one of the things i learned in the time in the military and

teach my daughters, 19 and 16 character means doing what's right when no one is watching. and once you sacrifice your integrity, it's hard to regain it. i think you saw it it in the instance where it's a political gain, not being honest and upfront with the american people and when you talk about the american people hurting, you know, we know that household incomes are down 3.6% that's one of the highest rates in 20, 25 years. we've seen gasoline prices increase about 46 to 47 cents over the last 35 days. so you are really decimating the hard-earned money and incomes of the american people that are out there working and yet, we continue to hear about, you know, drawing in more money from the quote, unquote, those that can afford to pay a little more. that's a 30-year high already. so we're not talking about pro growth economic policies, we're talking about political gamesmanship and ideology that's working adversely to a turn around in this economy. >> sean: i wonder, is it fair game to say that maybe the

president, we could save 341 federal workers to be furloughed if he didn't go to play the golf game with tiger woods in florida. the state department spent nearly half a billion dollars on climate change. how many poor children or disabled children could we help. are these debates we should be having, are we going to hurt poor children or disabled children. if we're going to spend money on climate change i'd rather help little children, wouldn't you? >> that's right. and when you look at the redundant and duplicative programs, that's a start. the gao put out a report. 200 to 300 billion dollars of redundant programs in washington d.c. that could have been a perfect place to start. when i was up there in congress we did pass two pieces of legislation to replace the sequester, good, common sense, targeted type of spending cuts that reformed the programs that we had and of course, those pieces of legislation just sat on harry

reid's desk. so there were solutions at that were being offered, but to continue to talk about more tax revenue and more increases, as far as taxation, the cbo has already said we're going to have 2 point trillion dollars of revenue this year and that's a pretty high extent-- bit of revenue coming in, but we're still going to run 800 to 900 billion dollar deficit because of the spending issue. >> sean: and the congressman, name is drucken miller. and he makes a point when he talks about the 200 million dollars in the unfunded liabilities coming up. and republicans say, paul ryan's going to come out with a budget to balance the budget in ten years, i want to see that budget because we can't borrow 46 cents of every dollar and not rob our kids blind. he says, look, for him it's a simple issue i'm not against seniors, what i'm against is current seniors stealing from future seniors. is that a fair -- is that a

reality that's coming to america, or does austerity like we see in europe come here first? >> it's an absolute reality when you understand that every man, woman and child in the united states of america, 53,000 dollars of debt on their head, gross debt and that's the gross debt, that's not the unfunded liabilities that are brought in so i'm just talking about 16.5 trillion. so, we are abusing our, you know, younger generations for, you know, the now. when you look at social security, medicare, we have to reform those programs or they will go bankrupt. but, last week we should have paid attention to what ben bernanke was saying when he testified that you're going to continue to have federal stimulus because our economy is not recovering. we're not doing the right things as far as our fiscal policies and our regulatory policies so we're printing money to the tune of about 85 billion dollars a month so that we can, you know, buy up our mortgage-backed securities and treasury bond debt and that's not how we're going to have a successful economy. >> sean: is this the case

where the president's cried wolf too often? remember, he was pushing a stimulus plan or we face catastrophe. this is the type of language now that's fairly predictable and i'm getting to the point i laugh at it. even "saturday night live" is mocking him over this and it's made it into the pop culture, which i think is a dangerous position for him to be in 'cause things don't get better in the end, but, in other words, if we hit obama-scare fatigue, that he can't scare us anymore? everybody knows he's kind of full of it. >> well, i'll ask you a simple question. if you were in the military and you were in a platoon, would you follow a platoon leader that said, gentlemen, we're going to try to do this attack, but most of us are going to get killed and those of us that don't get killed will be severely wounded or captured. leading by fear mongering is not a successful tactic and erode your credibility and people worry about you crying wolf too much. >> sean: i'd be worried about

the platoon was led by governor andrew cuomo because only seven bullets in your gun and problem when you're fighting the bad guys. >> absolutely problematic. and these are solutions you get from people who don't understand basic fundamentals of leadership, courage, confidence, commitment, character, especially. >> sean: good to see you, congressman, do you think? have you thought about it? >> well, i run every morning, about five or six miles. >> sean: i mean run for office. >> well, you know, god orders my steps and so i will listen and be obedient to him, but right now a great platform to get out our conservative message. >> sean: colonel allen west. thank you, and still ahead my cable exclusive interview with former florida governor jeb bush. i'll get his take on the sequester, the debt, plans for 2016. that's coming up, but first, the president says the sequester budget cuts will cost many americans their jobs so why then did his secretary of state just announce plans to funnel literally hundreds of millions of your tax

dollars to the muslim brotherhood? and why is your money being handed over to this 9/11 truther, a man who refers to the israelis as descendents of apes and pigs? we'll debate that next. dentures are very different to real teeth.

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>> and as president obama wallows in his self-inflicted

sequestration mess and tries to take more of your hard-earned money to get out of this, listen, john kerry met face-to-face with the man himself, the 9-11 truther egyptian president mohammed morsi, after meeting with the man who called the israelis the descendents of apes and pigs kerry announced he's immediately going to give to egypt, that means morsi, the muslim brotherhood, 190 million dollars in aid. 450 million in total aid over time. why? simply because morsi promised to implement political and economic reforms. and how generous of the administration, all on sequestration weekend. the last time i checked, that we could use that money right here in this country, mr. secretary. now, that's just the tip of the iceberg because in 2013, the fiscal year alone, the administration is slated to hand over more than 1.5 billion dollars to this rogue regime in cairo. meanwhile, we've also learned that the obama state department has allotted 469 million dollars to address,

quote, global climate change, pretty unreal, that's your hard earned dollars and joining me now with reaction from america's center of law and justice, jay sekulow, and adjunct, from a liberal institution, mark hannan is here, guys, welcome back. >> hey, sean. >> sean: let me -- this is where we're giving ultimately 1.5 billion so let's just take the kerry promise this weekend of 450 million dollars. okay? so, we're going to give 450 million -- million taxpayer dollars to a guy that referred to the israelis as descendents of apes and pigs, he is part of the muslim brotherhood a terrorist organization, a 9/11 truther. now, i have a list hereof things that we can better spend this money on and we'll put it up on the screen, mark, like 200 million for procurement of ammunition for the army and 59 million for marshal service salaries and

expenses, 53 million for food safety and inspection services. you get the point and maybe we can spend the other billion on the kids that are poor or the kids that are disabled, as the president said we had h'd be cug from. why should we give it it to him and not our own military. >> sean, there's absolutely no question that there's deserving programs listed on the screen. >> sean: and the money-- why should morsi get it over the children in america. >> sure. >> sean: and over our military? >> and i'll answer that and it's absolutely well within the united states national interest as well as national security interest to make sure egypt remains a strong ally. as you know, the oldest american ally in the arab world. >> sean: the muslim brotherhood run egypt now. >> well, the muslim brotherhood and freedom and justice party, the wing of the-- >> israeli descents of apes and pigs, that's what morsi said.

>> and the terrorist wing of the muslim brotherhood. >> what do you suggest? this was a democratically elect add and-- >> 1.5 billion dollars to the muslim brotherhood-led government in egypt, with the president of the united states himself be, barack obama said he could not define them as an ally. and he can't define them right now because we don't know where they're going to go. >> sean: let me, hold on, hold on-- >> and benghazi, and egypt blocked it. muslim brotherhood blocked it. >> sean: and mark, i want aal ay dollar we spend, the president says poor children and disabled children will suffer as a result of the sequestration. why 1.5 billion of limited resources to the 9/11 truther, the muslim brotherhood, who refers to the israelis as descendents of apes and pigs, why them over our military and our children? you didn't answer that.

why them over us? >> i'll answer you. >> sean: why? >> we're giving not to the muslim brotherhood. 50 million and you didn't mention it in your lead-in going directly to entrepreneurs and economic incentives to create a democratic institution. >> sean: why 1.5 trillion to the-- >> trillion? i think you meant billion and it's 2 billion that we give to pakistan, we give 3 billion to israel, why do we give-- >> 1.5 billion to nigeria for foreign aid. >> and all sorts-- >> mark, hang on. >> it's part of our social security apparatus. >> mark, do you believe that the muslim brotherhood-led government under morsi in egypt is part of our apparatus in the middle east? will you not acknowledge part of the plan with regard to the president the arab spring turned into an islamist nightmare and we're in a thaw that could be worse. the reality, look where the money's going and how in the world, we're having sequestration in the united

states we're giving 1.5 billion dollars we're having to borrow from the chinese to give to the muslim brotherhood when we're cutting services in the united states. >> i'll tell you where the money is going, it's creating a stable and strong egypt imperative in that part of the world. >> do you believe that the musl muslim brotherhood is a stable egypt. >> sean: do you think that's democracy? he was voted in sharia law-- all right. one at a -- one at a time. jay is next. go ahead. >> okay. >> sean: go ahead. >> mark, here is the problem, i don't believe, and i think most people that are engaged in this, and i've got an office that deals with a lot of the situations in the the middle east that the muslim brotherhood government is going to be stable at all, if it was stable, it's stable as iran, an islamicist government which it is. mark, you're a smart guy. do you really believe that a government under morsi with attempts he's made to grab power and continues to, dismissing the military leadership that the previous

administration had. do you believe they're now an ally to the united states. i believe that morsi has conducted a power grab. i think we have a right to be concerned about that and i believe that's exactly why-- >> let me finish my sentence, jay. it's tied to those political and economic reforms. >> sean: i've got to go. >> and making sure that the free and fair election that brought morsi to power-- >> deny our military, and deny our military weapons to give it to the terrorists? pretty sick stuff to me. >> unbelievable. >> sean: unbelievable. still ahead, he may be considering a run to the white house. tonight in a cable exclusive interview i'll be joined here in studio by former florida governor jeb bush. he'll sound off on obama's failed leadership and why the president keeps blaming his brother and first, bill clinton's former labor secretary is actually accusing the tea party of conspiring to he destroy the u.s. government. a member of the house tea party caucus will be here to respond directly to robert reisch's accusations of reisch's accusations of treaso mallonrothers magic?

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deposit checks from your smartphone with chase quickdeposit. just snap a picture, hit send and done. take a step forward and chase what matters. >> welcome back to "hannity." apparently calling members of the tea party movement racist is not enough for liberals anymore. now robert reich has taken the left wing rhetoric to an all time low.

reich was the secretary under president clinton and he had a blog post talking about the sequestration and that the tea party wanted to undermine the government of the united states he wrote that the president should let the public see the tea party for who they are, a small radical minority intent on dismantling the government of the united states. as long as they're allowed to dictate the terms of public debate, they will continue to hold the rest of us hostage to their extremism. let me see if i get this right, mr. reich. are you saying that being fiscally responsible is now become an act of treason? joining us now is someone mentioned by name in reich's post and that's congressman tim ulscamp. >> how are you. >> sean: you're part of a conspiracy to take down the united states? >> i never thought following the constitution was a conspiracy and it might be in the mind of mr. reich, but i flew that washington today and it's still moving, still

working and despite a 1% cut that doesn't seem like much of a conspiracy to undermine washington. >> sean: i think he could make a much better case that the people who have given us 6 trillion in new debt and borrowing nearly half of everything they spend. they're the ones that are undermining the fiscal stability of the country. would that be fair of me to say that about them? >> well, the economy is going backwards. 23 million americans are looking for work. and you mentioned 6 trillion dollars in new debt under this administration, and 16.6 trillion dollars as we speak here. every american owes $53,000 in debt and these folks are worried about a 1 to 2% cut. i wish we could cut government back a little bit and i wish we could roll back the epa. and 700 pages of rules and regulations for obamacare, it seems to never end, despite very, very marginal cuts. >> all right, the next fiscal battle panics, apocalyptic

moment is coming soon, that has to do with the continuing resolution to fund the government the rest of the year. you, along with some of your colleagues, have written to the speaker and eric cantor and you're saying that you would like them to defund obamacare. now, spending begins in congress. what specifically could they cut and how much would that be? >> well, we do not have a clear answer for the administration of what we can address and we've asked that question for a number of years and they still don't know, but the point being is that we won the sequester battle. i think that america woke up on friday morning and let's see what's next. they recognize that we need to get the job done. the biggest threat to our country fiscally and otherwise is obamacare, 1.4 trillion dollars in new spending coming up because of this program. what i'm asking is we consider to defund the implementation of an obamacare and give us at least a number of years, if we can't do-- >> but what specifically do you defund? how do you do it and how much

will it save? >> it will save a few billion dollars. that's all we know, that's what it will save government, but it will save the private sector, it will save the real world. it will help millions of americans keep their current employer sponsored health insurance, stop hhs from continuing to implement a very unpopular law that's driving up premiums. it doesn't save much money, but it saves the health care system for many americans and prevents this escalation of medicaid expansion that many governors have now agreed to propose and fund from the federal government. >> sean: have you spoken with the speaker? have you spoken to eric cantor about it and have you gotten a lot of support from your colleagues? i personally would love to see, you know, congress cut back on spending through the cr. would i like to see more cuts. i'd like to see us live within our means. i know, paul ryan is going to come out with a balanced budget plan that would balance a budget in ten years, i'm glad they're getting serious. >> well, we are making progress. actually holding the line on

the sequester's progress and keeping the cr and making sure it doesn't increase, but no matter what happens, spending is going to be up this year over last year, sean. we have a long ways to go and right now, it doesn't look like they'll let us vote on defunding obamacare, i'm disappointed in that and hopefully minds changed in 24 to 48 hours. then we move forward as you mentioned to the budget and then eventually the debt ceiling. we've got to get this path-- this country on a path to fiscal responsibility. as you mentioned 40 to 42 cents of every dollar we're borrowing from the chinese and others, that's unsustainable, even in robert reich's world. >> sean: i just want to know, what do you think? is it a cut? and the words thrown around, cutting and we're going to have to decide the president says, between poor children and disabled children. >> that's amazing. >> sean: my question is my math tells me we're going to spend as much or more money this year than we spent last year, so we're reducing the

rate of increase, is that correct? >> that's correct. and only in washington would that be called a cut. again, this is his proposal. half cut the first year and the rest in later years, only in washington would that be a cut. >> sean: all right, so, if somebody is doing their home budget and they make $50,000 a year, and they were expected to get a $2,000 raise and then the raise didn't go through, they had a reduction in the rate of increase, they didn't have a cut in what their salary was, they lost their raise. so, basically government lost their raise with the sequestration? >> absolutely. and they didn't lose all the raise. they just lost part of it. again, spending will still increase, and what we also know is there will be more taxes flowing into the federal government than ever before, ever before. clearly, spending is the problem and if we change that debate we are making progress, sean. >> sean: all right, well, congressman are you getting along better with leadership?

we've got to run here. >> yes, we are. making some progress. >> sean: appreciate you being with us. up next, florida governor jeb bush will join us in studio tonight for a cable exclusive interview. is he weighing a run for the white house and how would he grade president obama's handling of the sequestration? is he frustrated that obama keeps blaming his brother? answers to those questions after the break. don't forget we want to hear what you have to say about the issues and join our companion site, it's hannity live, follow the live show and your thoughts. thoughts. go to hannity li so you say men are superior drivers? yeah. then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. ok. [ voice of dennis ] silence. are you in good hands? by the armful? by the barrelful? e carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy,

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forging an american solution" former florida governor jeb bush. good to see you. >> i'm fantastic. >> sean: your dad is doing better? >> he is, he is thank goodness. he's out of the hospital and mom is taking care of him and he has a lot of love in the house and he's recovering, little by little. >> sean: a very tight family. i know that you all have-- when you hear, bush 41, bush 43, bush 45? you left the door open this morning so i've got to ask you. >> i did because i didn't say no, but it's three years out or four years out from an election, so, i'm going to -- what i've decided is not to worry about it, not to think about it, to continue on the path i'm on and you know, not fret about it. this is way too early to be making these kinds of decisions. you know, maybe it's a little odd that there'd be three people from the same family being president out of 45 presidents, it's a little strange, but i'm not going to shut the door completely either. it's not -- i don't wake up

each day fretting about it and i'm not going to. >> sean: when i've interviewed your brother, he wants you to run. >> i know. he does occasionally, he does and what can i say? >> well, i guess he has a lot of faith and confidence in you. let's talk about this president. one of the things i'd like to get your thoughts on and you've discussed it in the past, is barack obama has blamed george bush an awful lot in the last four plus years. what is your reaction to that? >> well, the president was dealt a tough hand. when he became president there were a lot of really tough circumstances that he had to deal with. and it it might be natural to try to push down the guy before you to make yourself look better during difficult circumstances, but it's been four long years now and it's time to accept responsibility for the economy that we have and for the policies that have, i think, created tepid it economic growth. the whole issue that seems to be missing in washington d.c. these days is how do we create

sustained high growth. that would solve a lot of the problems. the partisan divide would begin to, i think, shrink pretty dramatically if we had an energy strategy that created american jobs. we created 21st century regulation that accomplished the same task at a lower cost, tax reform, education reform, there's a whole slew of things that the president could be advocating, but he is constantly campaigning and constantly dividing the country. >> sean: i don't think it got as bad as last week and i think he's done a lot of dividing as you point out over the years. you know, i look at for tnorth dakota where they've been drilling on private lands and we're now the energy center of the world, it's not the middle east anymore with oil shale, fracking, natural gas, et cetera. couldn't we sort of make that boom in north dakota happen nationwide? >> we could. there are reserves in new york. there are significant gas reserves using this technology

or new innovation, the fracking and horizontal drilling which are old technologies applied in a new way, in california. certainly in texas there's an explosion of drilling that creates a tremendous opportunity, but what we need to do is to find new uses for natural gas. maybe, boon pickens idea of taking commercial trucking and converting it to natural gas. certainly, the new power capacity that's going to be built's a lot of ways that we can use strategic policies to lessen our sources of oil. and 300 billion dollars of money went out to countries, most of which either hate us or are unstable and could learn to hate us in a heartbeat. >> sean: what do you make of the economy? we just had the big sequester issue. >> yeah. >> sean: the world is still going as we know it. >> apparently day one, we're okay. >> sean: it looks like we're doing okay here.

earlier this morning, you said that well now may not be the time for tax increase. you said the idea of it being part of a package. as governor, you didn't raise taxes. how many times did you cut taxes? >> i cut taxes every year when i was governor. >> sean: every single year. >> yeah, and to me, growing the economy would create exponential revenue, much more than the effort to try to he redistribute well. the strategy for the president isn't to create revenue to deal with our structural deficits and it's to create a new america through redistribution of wealth, where success is penalized at the expense of those that are struggling and what we ought to be doing is building capacity for those that are struggling so they can be successful as well. and that's what's missing in the debate. but my point of view is that we shouldn't be drawing lines in the sand. if we have structural problems that are going to be the demise of the country and i think our deficit problems ten years from now will overwehelm

us, we shouldn't-- like paul ryan with medicare, we should constantly do that. we need to be against him in a principled way, but also advancing a positive agenda. >> sean: how would you deal with the president demagoguing republicans, their plans is for dirty air, dirty water, i say that all the time. the republicans, they want hurt. what are you going to say during this sequester, do you want to hurt poor children or disabled children? >> i don't think that's a winning issue anymore. i think that people are tired of that. what we have to be is positive and hopeful and offer an alternative. there are solutions to the problems we face, it doesn't mean we have to be supportive of the president's approach or supportive of the demagoguery that you describe, but we ought to be offering something more positive than just being against. >> sean: i think the republicans have communications issues. i think they have -- they don't have disciplined messaging. i think the democrats do, because if the president says balance every democrat and

bounce. >> it's harder as the opposition party with d disparate voices to speak with one voice, and i can speaking he or she, preferably she as a spokesperson-- >> why she? >> because we're changing demographically, but i remember respective of that, we should have one voice and be the loyal opposition and a shadow government that advocates to use different views on health care, on tax policy, education policy ought to be the norm. >> sean: i'm always surprised in the interview you sort of left the door open for a tax increase as part after big deal, but-- >> i've never done that and to me that would be the very last option. i just think, i just i'm not big on signing pledges or i'm not big on, you know, saying

that never, never, never. that's just not the right approach when we have huge problems. our country should regain its footing. our country is the greatest country on the face of the earth, but to assume that on the current path that we're on, we're in trouble. >> we're in deep trouble. >> sean: so unfunded liabilities make it compound. >> in a divided government you can't say my way or the highway. neither side. >> sean: we're going to come back and talk about your book. governor bush has a message for the democratic party he will unveil his six-point plan for fixing this broke >> with hotwire's low prices, i can afford to visit chicago for my first big race and l.a. for my best friend's wedding. because when hotels have unsold rooms, they use hotwire so i got my hotels

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>> now as the immigration debate continues to challenge the nation, former florida governor jeb bush is looking at a new proposal based on the value freedom. in his book, "forging an american solution", the potential 2016 candidate looks at a strategy for reworking the immigration policy. includes stem to stern immigration reform involving a new bipartisan solution, a demand-driven system recognizing the global competition for immigrants, an increase for the states based on their various needs when it comes to immigrants.

dealing with current illegal immigrants, alternative to deportation, border security, creating a more effective visa system in relationship with mexico and lastly, an education program to teach aspiring citizens about our nation's volumes and democra democracy. still with me to elaborate more and the reform, governor jeb bush and clint is with us. good to see you, it's been a while. >> good to see you, sean. >> sean: hot button issue, one of the things i was surprised about, you're not seeing citizenship for those that are here illegally? >> yeah, i think the issue is, it should be easier to come to our country legally than illegally and that there should be a different consequence. or we're going to have another magnet for illegal immigration. whatever we do, we don't want to recreate what we've had over the last 20 years and so, an open legal system that we

don't have today, in other words, if people wanted to come from another country they can't because the lines are so long, effectively there are no lines. >> sean: we almost encourage them to come illegally. >> absolutely, so that's the difference, is a path to legalization, don't have to leave the country. they will be afforded the same rights, out from the shadows, but i think the basic principle is in order to get comprehensive reform in order to persuade many conservatives that are concerned about the lack of rule of law, this is a proposal that might find support. >> sean: well, i've interviewed you now on this, marco rubio on this and rand paul and i think between the three of you there is a solution. i like your idea that sorry, if you didn't respect our laws and sovereignty, we'll give you a path to a green card. i like rand paul saying that we've got to secure the borders first and verify it before we move forward. you disagree in the book? >> definitely disagree with that. that's like, sean, that is like a doctor saying we're not going to treat the cancer

until the symptoms go away. basically, you cannot secure the border until you have a legal immigration system that works. why are these people-- >> why can't you do that? why can't you secure the border first, so-- i don't want to use an analogy, we're talking about people's lives and i'm worried about terrorists that don't have our best interests at heart. if your boat's leaking and you plug up the hole, then you bail the water. >> right, we take terrorism very seriously in the work, we talk about ways to do that, but in terms of illegal immigrants, we come from people who risked a lot more than people are risking told and overcame obstacles far greater. we're not going to stop it. we're not going to stop people coming to pursue the american dream until we give them a realistic hope of coming in. so you solve these problems together, not one at a time. >> sean: i would be willing and people get mad at me when i say this, i would be willing to support either your plan or

a combination of your plan, marco rubio's plan and rand paul's plan if we seal the borders first. it's a big deal for conservatives. >> it is, and what we're saying in order to secure the border over the long haul, you have to deal with the fact right new it's easier to come illegally than it is to come legally. i mean, it is ridiculous for an immigrant nation to make it -- to make those incentives that perverse. >> sean, in 1970, 70% of our legal immigrants came with work visas. today that number is 13%. we need to fix that system and give people who want to come here for the right reasons a way to do it. if we don't do that, we're going to have to see them-- >> i understand 'cause i think in the past conservatives have resisted either a path to citizenship viewed as amnesty, but i think most conservatives, if they got out of this we're going to control the border, we won't have a terrorist threat that we have to deal with, which to me is the number one threat, and

then we could-- the path towards a green card, as you're saying. i think they go for that. >> well, you know, when we wrote this book in the summer of 2012, if you asked this question in the summer of 2012, a lot of people were against immigration reform period. >> true, and-- >> and then i saw you the night of the election the next day and wow, we need to accelerate the publication of our book because there is a movement towards understanding that this is good politics and good policy. >> sean: yeah. >> so, the world has changed a bit, but the simple fact is that the process, in order to -- for conservatives to win going forward we have to have a view on these really complicated subjects. >> sean: i haven't been to the border so often and i've watched people that risk their lives only because they want a job. i have a lot of sympathy and frankly, respect for them, that they want a better life for themselves. i'd like to think that i'd be as brave as they are, we have

to control our borders because i worry about terrorists that want to destroy. >> well, and it's important not to mix-up these two things. our terrorism threat is incredible. >> sean: yeah. >> and so we've got to have biometrics for people who visit us. we have to remember now that over half of the people who are here illegally today everstayed theeve overstayed their visas, and this is why we advocate for a comprehensive solution and not walling off our border. >> if you want to grow the economy we have to have aspirational immigrants that jump start that economic growth. >> sean: if we look at unfunded liabilities and how do we ever pay absolutely retirement, social security, medicare obligations, it's almost impossible at this rate. all right, we'll come back. closer thoughts with the closer thoughts with the governororororor what's next? he's going to apply testosterone to his underarm.

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ichltd >> we now continue with governor jeb bush and clint. we've laid out the six principles that both of you have in the book and how secure, how do you secure the border, how much does it cost? because we're kind of broke. >> you want to go with that one? >> well, i would say the best way to end illegal immigration is through a workable legal immigration system that will cost us a lot less money and produce a great economy over time. the biggest single obstacle to this is barack obama who is playing politics with this issue. republicans need to unite behind a positive immigration program and take this issue. >> i would go along with either marco, rand and your plan if we secured the borders first. i won't get back into that argument. why do you think the hispanic vote has moved democratic? >> wel