to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. to get our adt security system. and one really big reason -- the house next door. our neighbor's house was broken into. luckily, her family wasn't there, but what if this happened here? what if our girls were home? and since we can't monitor everything 24/7, we got someone who could. adt. [ male announcer ] while some companies are new to home security, adt has been helping to save lives for over 135 years. we have more monitoring centers, more of tomorrow's technology right here today, and more value.

24/7 monitoring against burglary, fire, and high levels of carbon monoxide starting at just over $1 a day. and now get adt installed for just $99. isn't your family worth arica's number-one security company, adt? our girls got us thiin but the break-in got us lling. and after buying two of everything, it was nice to only need one security system -- adt. [ male announcer ] get adt installed for just $99. and ask about adt pulse, advanced home management here today. adt. always there. >> all right. so the video jenna was showing me earlier. not me in spin class. i've never taken one. i like the scenery to change when i ride. fox news with the cycle for survival challenge, for the sloan kettering center in new and five of us, setting a goal for $5,000 bucks for cancer research and we were over

6,000 thanks to the doe nations of friends and family. and newscorp will add in 50,000, and we're closing in on $100,000. >> looking good, jon. >> and i'm still here. >> always a positive. >> thank you for joining us. >> "america live" starts right now. >> megyn: fox news alert out of rome where we are moments away from learning whether the princes of the catholic church have select add new man to lead the world's 1.2 billion catholics. welcome to "america live" it's an exciting afternoon, i'm megyn kelly. these are the scenes at the vatican right now where thousands of the faithful have gathered in a rain soaked and chilly st. peter's square, waiting for that puff of white smoke that will signal a new pontiff has been chosen. that smoke will come from the tiny chimney of the sistene chapel that you see on the right side of your screen. earlier today, black smoke rose from the building

triggering sighs of disappointment from the crowd. the black smoke of course is a sign that the 115 cardinals who are voting have yet to reach a two-thirds majority, they need 77 to degree, to elect a new leader. but as the world waits and watches, we also caught a glimpse of a touching scene in the drenched square, a barefoot man in tattered clothing, look at this, kneeling, praying, and ignoring the raindrops falling around him. father jonathan morris is a roman catholic priest and fox news contributor. he joins us live from rome. father jon, that's what it's about, it's not about a name on a piece of paper or gets to wear the fancy dress and a lot of power. it's about someone who can literally bring someone to their knees in worship as a messenger of god. >> that's right on, megyn. you know, we have he talked a lot about the challenges of the church and there are many and it's good that we talk

about and that we get down to the nitty-gritty of the challenges of the next pope. when you see tens of thousands of people waiting out in the rain waiting for a puff of smoke, you say why? why are they doing it? it's because they believe. they believe in god, they believe that god can work through even very human and frail human beings and through a frail and human pope. so, that's the excitement. and you know, let me tell you, megyn, it's a little after six o'clock here and the story is getting more and more exciting because we think back eight years ago in the last conclave, it was the fourth ballot that selected pope benedict. we believe, according to the schedule, they just had that ballot and they came up negative. so, now they're working on the fifth ballot which means things are getting exciting inside the sistene chapel. >> megyn: so that would be one ballot yesterday, two this morning and you believe the fourth just happened and then the fifth will happen in moments? >> that's exactly -- that's

exactly right. we're expecting -- i was talking here to shep and i think, say in about 45 minutes to an hour, we could expect the next -- the smoke, whether it's black, meaning that they've gone through the fifth ballot and have come up with nothing, they haven't come up with a two-thirds plus one majority or white, meaning that the pope has been elected. >> megyn: how -- is this at all like politics where if you don't have a hefty majority, you need more than 77 in order to have a mandate, you know? is it at all like, 77 is really all they need or is it one of those things where they really want to get virtually all of the cardinals to vote for the one man? >> yeah, well, it is a lot like politics in the sense there is that human factor of who do you want, who do i want, let's see who could come up together and come to some sort of consensus or a compromised candidate. each group has about the same,

someone has to give in. if you don't like the third guy, together they go after another possibility. ant the b majority possible? yes. in fact, john paul ii had made it -- had a little change in the the rule which after 30 ballots, they wouldn't need a two-thirds majority. pope benedict then changed that rule back and said, no, we're keeping the two-thirds majority all the way through. eventually they could just go down and limit it it down to two candidates, but if they want to make sure that the pope coming in has a strong level of support and it's better that they get somebody else with that support than the first or second or third option with a small, smaller degree of support. so, yes, it's a little like politics, but they're going after a spiritual goal of course. >> megyn: then they'll have a result. there will be a leader. this won't be turned into bush v gore, they will find a leader maybe within the next 45 minutes. i want to ask you this, the cardinals spent the night

sequestered in the vatican santa marta hotel. no access to tv, newspapers, cell phones or computers, they don't want them interacting with the outside world in the process. you have a close working relationship with one of the cardinals in there, that's timothy dolan of new york. do you get to talk to him at all. do they talk to people like you? they can't talk to people like me. is there any buzz they can share anything during the process? >> nothing whatsoever, which for someone like cardinal dolan is probably hard and very-- loves to give back to new york. and i can tell you one story as we're preparing, and just walking downstairs to the bus to get to santa marta and moving the residence and he took me aside seriously and said, oh, my gosh, what is he going to tell me. he said we're stuck in there more than three days, make sure you get-- and then he told me his

favorite food somehow through those walls. but, they recognize that they really are sequestered and, but they're not somehow in some sort of retreat, silent retreat. once they leave the sistene chapel in the morning they go back to the residence and the vatican spokesman in answer to a question he, they can smoke in their rooms and they can smoke off the balconies and they can get together and talk and continue the discussions hey, now what do we do? now that our candidate, it doesn't look like he's going to get the support that we need, the two-thirds, maybe we should go towards this other person. very human, very human, but they also know that the burden of responsibility for their humanity is to select a spiritual leader, a pastor for this very large church, but also for the world, the voice of moral reason. >> megyn: yeah, so it's not like a true jury sequester here in the united states, you're not allowed to talk unless you're in the deliberation room. fun fact, it doesn't have to

be a cardinal to elect a pope. so if we hear about you, father jonathan getting the nod we look forward to having you back on. >> if that happens i'm taking the first taxi to the airport and i'm out of here. >> megyn: that would be a way to start your term. >> thanks. >> megyn: and if we see the white smoke appear and hear the bells of st. peter's ring. they do both. it should look white, they put in chemicals to make it look white. listen for the bells. and this is what will happen when that occurs inside the vatican and the new pope will go into the so-called room of tears, a few feet away from the sistene chapel and the new pope will put on his papal vestments for the first time. called the room of tear because the new pope overjoyed by the burden of his new office will be in that place.

and a brief prayer in the sistene chapel with the cardinal electors, as long as the top ranking cardinal deck k keekkee keeken-- deacon is not the chosen man, he will announce it to the world and the pope will come on the balcony and give a short speech. and father morris says he we should see the smoke, whether it's black or white, within the next 45 minutes. told you what happened yesterday, and it it did, yesterday the smoke was black. we'll see whether they come up with a new pope today. stay with us and back to rome the moment it happens. exciting, isn't it? well, in another news. we're learning about a new challenge for the president's health care law, an application that runs 21 pages for the online version, over a dozen steps, some that have

added questions. it's described as about as complex as doing your taxes and that's only the first part of the process toward getting your new obamacare health insurance. trace gallagher has more from our west coast news room, trace. >> reporter: if i can, megyn, take you back to when then speaker nancy pelosi said this about obamacare. >> we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy. >> reporter: well, how is this for getting through the fog of controversy? if you want to find out what's in the bill, take a look at this, right? there's a little itty bitty pile on the right. that's the actual bill. that's 2700 pages. now, the original bill, there it is, that thing next to it, that tower, seven-foot tower, that's 20,000 pages, that's the regulations that go along with obamacare. now, of course that's silly, none of us has to go through and read that thing, right?

if you want to apply for obamacare in the form of medicaid or the children's health program, you will need to fill out this 21-page health and human services application and you might need a little help along the way because there are multiple questions about the income, your employer health care status. your race, ethnicity and then when you're done, seal it up and send it off because there are three major federal agencies that want to look at it, including the irs, and remember, that's just to qualify for financial help. then when all that's done, that's when you get to pick a health plan and a health care provider, but keep in mind, megyn, you will be able to keep your doctor. >> megyn: away from the fog, we see that. trace, thank you. >> reporter: sure. >> megyn: well, a controversial story by a prominent journalist is questioning whether president obama is playing games with republicans and the media and the country at large this week. well, look at the claims that

the recent outreach efforts by the president are really just a quote, joke, in the word of one senior white house official, staged simply for the sake of the media. and a video that appears to show a toddler swapping his bottle for a marijuana bong lands his parents in some serious trouble. we didn't get to this yesterday because we had the breaking news at the vatican. we will get to it today and ask the question about whether this mother should ever see this child again. and a developing story that could impact classrooms across the country, as local educators debate whether to appeal a court ruling that banned classes that reportedly promote racial resentment against whites and the overthrow of the u.s. government. >> yes, the story of our traditions it's okay to teach, it's not okay to teach just one side and put in these children's view towards our great country. way.

the doctor put me on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore.

♪ >> how did they get that picture of me this morning? (laughter) don't cross a woman who hasn't had a good night's sleep. researchers at duke university say women need more shut eye than men. when he they don't get it they wake up grumpier, angrier and more hostile than men. and women lack of sleep greater risk of heart disease, depression and stroke and this is all stuff i told my husband this morning when the baby wanted us to get her and our son was up, honey, you don't want a grumpy soon to die wife. get up. (laughter) president obama is on capitol hill meeting with house republicans in about 20

minutes. this is part of his new effort to reach out to lawmakers when it comes to discussing the nation's long-term debt crisis. but there are new questions about the motive behind the president's recent efforts to reach across the aisle. in a new article in the national journal, ron fournier asks whether the president's time on the hill is an act of leadership or a cynical public display and he quotes an anonymous senior white house official saying, quote, this is a joke. we're wasting the president's time and ours. i hope you all in the media are happy because we're doing it for you. chris stirewalt, our digital news editor on power play fox news live. that's something that the white house has denied saying they're not doing it for us at all. it's real, but why would a senior white house official tell a well respected reporter, you know, with the-- formerly with the ap, with the national journal that this is

a joke and they're doing it just for the media? >> well, here is the thing, as you say, ron fournier is a serious dude and he's very well-respected in this town and he's very good at what he does and his point here is, whether it's cynical and insincere or whether it's an earnest move to the middle, it has the same net effect on the president, the rest of the president's strategy. he was going to delegitimize the republicans. he was going to cast them out like he has tried to do with certain media outlets for the years, but he was going to beg the republican's illegitimate bargaining powers and say i don't have to deal with these people. and even by meeting with them, because of the slumping polls, it's forced him to engage the republicans, he's legitimizing them and therefore undoing the audacious attack strategy that he and his team had put in place. >> megyn: it's a white flag on the effort to delegitimize his opponent and comes as his poll numbers are sinking down to 46

according to one report, 45%, the mcclatchy poll yesterday, a 45% approval rating where it's been 50 or higher. and the poll shows the republicans in the house who are very unpopular overall, are beating him in favorability when it comes to who is best suited to deal with our budget deficits. >> yeah, here is the situation. what do they call it at the vatican, the room of tears? there's going to be a room of tears for house republicans with the president when he talks to them because think of it this way: your he' waiting f're waitingme with a guy who says you stink and ahead of that you hear that ron fournier say this is a joke perpetrated on the republicans for the sake of the media and hear the president say to george stephanopoulos on abc, we don't have a debt crisis, he we don't have a short-term debt crisis at all and you also hear him say, i don't

think a balanced budget is good inunto itself, it isn't good just for having sake the having a balanced budget. for republicans it's like a huge slap in the face right at the time the president is stepping up to do a deal. >> megyn: it's made the white house point the anonymous person, this is a joke and it's all for the media and there's a question whether these two parties, the president and the republicans on capitol hill, are ever going to have a meeting of the minds, given that's how the president feels and given how the republicans feel about no additional tax hikes after the 600 billion we had at the first of the year and whether there's any real chance of them reaching an agreement or whether this is all about the president trying to boost those sagging poll numbers so he can at least say, i tried. >> i tried, i tried. i talked to john hogan, a republican senator from north dakota, one of the guys the president took to dinner last week as part of his charm

offensive with republicans, and he had felt a lot better about the chances for a deal before he heard what had been said to ron fournier and before he heard what the president told george stephanopoulos. it was a setback in mind, be somebody who the president would be relying on if he wanted to do a deal. and this has not advantaged him in getting a deal done. whether it helps the optics i don't know, but so far the outreach isn't yielding fruit because of these methods. >> megyn: and fournier in the piece talks about a democratic strategist with close ties to the white house who says this is, this is about the president realizing that his earlier strategy did not work and trying to demonize the republicans and convince the americans people they can't be worked with, and are to blame for everything, bah, bah, bah. and the president looked at the polls and he got them before we got them from gallup and mcclatchy and quinnipiac

and pew, the and president running around trying to pursue the strategy that didn't work and made him look, and his word is impotent. >> the last thing the president wants in a second term is to be impotent or irrelevant. he wants to be in the discussion because he can be a lame duck just like that. it takes a second to be a lame duck. in addition to talking to republicans today he's going to talk to donors in people supporting his campaign apparatus, his personal national committee. they're having their meetings in washington this week for the first time ever. so he's working both fronts. he has not abandoned the original strategy. so far it looks like he's in an operational pause. >> megyn: chris stirewalt, thank you, sir. >> you bet. >> megyn: a new jersey woman decides to quote the constitution as she argues against having her property tax doubled. before the hearing was done she was charged with making terrorist threats. trace has the story. and cardinals in the 13th

century were forced to eat just bread and water, to speed up picking a new pope. we'll show you how they're treated today. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice, with three of your daily vegetable servings in every little bottle.

>> thousands of catholics stand and wait in vatican city and millions, perhaps over a billion, around the world stand and wait elsewhere, wondering what the results will be within moments, perhaps. many of the folks in st. peter's square are cold and soaked from the rain, but eagerly awaiting the historic moment when there's word of a new pope. that decision falling to 115 cardinals who are locked inside the sistene chapel right now. they could be voting at this moment. they have already been there for a day and could be there much longer.

we're wondering what it's like for them inside. lauren green is live with details from rome. lauren? >> it's not exactly a resort and spa, but not spartan conditions either. we're learning more about the living conditions of the cardinals as they're staying in the sequestered quarters on vatican grounds the santa marta. and a few details, they're served wine with evening meals, it's part of the italian culture and they can take it if they want it or not. and we're told that the cardinals can smoke in their room though not in the common areas, i don't know which are smokers. but i happen to know that cardinal timothy dolan does enjoy a cigar once in a while. for dinner last night they had pasta and tomato sauce and soup and vegetables. it may seem innocuous information, if this could not be leased to the vatican, it could get someone in trouble. everyone is locked inside

including the cooks, plumber, if case something happens to the facility. simply knowing what they had for dinner, unless it was planned on the menu beforehand, so somebody on the outside knew, that would be the only legitimate source, otherwise they think it may have been a violation of a secret. >> reporter: we're talking about being excommunicated, that's how serious that information could be. and despite the driving rain, the cold temperatures out here, people are flocking to st. peter's square. in fact, the police have cordoned off the main thoroughfare into the square, and because the crowds are so big. we're waiting in the driving rain, a sea of umbrellas waiting to see if there will be white or black smoke coming from the chimney of the sistene chapel as we are all waiting to see if indeed there is a new pope tonight. megyn. >> megyn: lauren green, thank you. back to rome just as soon as we have any news. well, there's new focus today on a gripping photo that made international headlines. it showed a palestinian father

cradling his dead child after what we were told was an israeli air strike. but a month-long investigation has turned up a new story. and the israeli ambassador joins us with the powerful story that's now emerged about this picture of this child. and in a developing story that could impact classrooms across the country. it involves the fight over class that is reportedly promote racial resentment and overthrow of the united states government. wait until you hear this. and kelly's court, appears to show a toddler swapping a bottle for a marijuana bong, we'll debate the mother's claim that it was a prank, coming up in moments. >> my son is just over that age and i would never think of doing something like that with him. actually i'm a medical marijuana patient myself and i do it responsibly and to me, that's just, i'm aghast that someone could do that. [ indistinct shouting ]

♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data. split-second stats. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ it's so close to the options floor... [ indistinct shouting, bell dinging ] ...you'll bust your brain box. ♪ all onhinkorswim from td ameritrade. ♪

from td ameritrade. michael, tell us why you used to book this fabulous hotel? well you can see if the hotel is pet friendly before you book it, and i got a great deal without bidding. and where's your furry friend? oh, i don't have a cat. now you can save up to 50% during priceline's spring hotel sale use promo code spring for additional savings on all express deals, including pet friendly hotels. express deals. priceline savings without the bidding.

>> we're just moments away n king in the classroom.

it started with classes in tucson, arizona that were taught from the decidedly mexican-american point of view as opposed to the american point of view. state lawmakers actually passed a law to try to block what was being taught in that course believing that the professor was promoting racial resentment against whites and possibly promoting even the overthrow of the u.s. government. supporters of the class disagreed, so they sued. some teachers and others sued challenging that that law was not constitutional. and that's where trace gallagher picks up the story, trace?

>> reporter: and you have to remember the context, megyn, these were history, literature and civics classes taught in four different tucson schools and the fact that arizona, texas, new mexico and california were occupied states controlled or owned by mexico, that belonged to mexico, also that these latino students were being oppressed and ben franklin was a racist and che guevara was a hero. after the superintendent and state lawmakers told the school to stop the classes and comply with state academic standards. teachers and students at the school sued claiming the school, the state was violating their right to free speech. well, first a state judge ruled in favor of arizona ruling that the classes promote resentment toward white people and teachers and students appealed so now a federal appeals court judge has also ruled in favor of arizona and a group called "save ethic studies "is vowing

to pick up the fight and continue on. while the legal battles have been going on. there's a separate court dealing with a tucson effort that tucson schools need to bring back the cultural education classes. how that fits in with the 9th circuit court ruling is still a little foggy, but the state of arizona says there are two separate cases and they believe that they will not overlap. we will soon find out. >> megyn: all right. trace, thank you. joining me now to discuss this. and the professor of socialology at the university of pennsylvania, and ben shapiro, editor at large of breitbart news and author of the book "bullied". thank you, ben, start with you. the courts for the most part sided with the the arizona lawmakers, you can't do this, you can't go into class and have folks teach this, but the teacher and the students said, look, there are other ethic studies, classes, why not this

one? >> well, the problem is two-fold here. one is what's actually taught in ethic study classes which tends to be anti-american which certainly tends to be anti-the idea of the melting pot. the courses are ethic studies professors are dependent on myopic focus on the idea that america is racist place against certain minorities. and the second it's a giant waste of taxpayer dollars. i took a jewish study course, two reasons, to meet girls and the second to get an easy a and that's why most students are taking ethnic studies and they're on the sis. >> megyn: i had no idea that that was the purpose behind the jewish studies courses. >> explains a lot of the makeup of the classes. and let me ask you this, professor charles. i understand wanting to-- there may be ethnic studies classes that are legit and

those are pretty common, but in this class, the professor was using text that talks about occupied america, that talk about white people being gringos and talked about benjamin franklin who is a racist and on and on and seems like they were stirring up anti-race sentiments. >> i think that's certainly one way to interpret this. i take some offense at the idea that ethnic studies courses are designed entirely to stir up anti-american sentiment because that suggests that the people who take those courses don't feel any kind of attachment to the united states, which just isn't true. >> that shouldn't be the suggestion, obviously, the suggestion is-- >> hold on, hold on, let me finish. >> excuse me. thank you. so i think that the things that you mentioned in terms of the racial attitudes of benjamin franklin, or the fact that there was a time in our

history where parts of what is now the united states were actually mexico, that people of african descent. latin american descent. native american descent were exploited and oppressed at a point in our history, are factually accurate and-- >> let me interrupt you to keep the debate going. that's less controversial the way you raised it than was happening. referring to white people as gringos, is that fair? what if the texts referred to black people with the n-word. >> there are texts that refer to that, we read huck finn and i'm saying that there is a place for doing those things if, depending on the context. i do not believe that these courses are intended or that this particular professor's

intention is to stir up anti-american sentiment. so, what i see here in terms of-- >> all right. hold on, i've got to get parties in and give it back to ben and ask him to respond. >> yes, content matters. ethnic study courses are based on critical studies. critical studies is a notion that the typical history doesn't include enough about particular races and therefore break it down by races, black history, jewish history, gay history, and the idea that matters is that america is not a melting pot with similar sets of ideas that undergirds all of americanism. that's what's disturbing about all of the courses. the bigger question is what purpose does it serve especially when you're talking about state tax dollars going to subsidize studies like ethnic study courses. who is going to graduate from the courses and be better off in terms of jobs, work place. >> megyn: and the last word to the professor. they say tucson test scores are among the lowest in the state and look, we need the

teachers to focus on academics not that arizona is occupied and still belongs to mexico, but they said that the students come into the class and they're fine, and they're, you know, there's no difference between them, but this is a quote in the new york times, but once they get told day after day they're being victimized they become angry and resentful. that's quoting one of the teachers from tucson. i'll give you the last word, professor. >> yeah, again, i think that different people have t perspec this. i think that if we taught a more accurate version of american history in our quote, unquote, mainstream american history courses, that there would be far less need for these kinds of courses. these aren't about overthrowing the government, this is about understanding who we are and where we came from. that doesn't make us less american. it actually puts our stories back into american history.

so that there's all of this effort at not talking about things. some place we have to talk about those things, and i don't know who said that people come out more angry than they went in, but unless there's empirical evidence for that, i just don't buy it. >> megyn: it's a man named john ward who taught a latino history class in tucson and also the administrators had a problem with it and more than one audited the class and thought that the man having che guevara on the wall was over the top. in any event, the court says the teacher has to stop it because it's not consistent with arizona law. panel, thanks so much. coming up two parents facing criminal charges after they apparently swapped their toddler's bottle for a bong. now the mother claims the images are being wildly misinterpreted. we take up the case in an early version of kelly's court to make sure it gets on today because we promised it yesterday, next. and as the cardinals seal

themselves off to pick a new leader, we're told the next vote could come in the next 15 minutes.

>> the suspense building as the world awaits the election of the next pope. no smoke yet. at the top of the hour, father morris told us to expect it 45 minutes to an hour. here we are 45 minutes later and the crowd is waiting in st. peter's square in a steady rain at vatican city. we watch the chimney, we hope we'll get news moments away. stay tuned. in the meantime, an early edition of kelly's court to fulfill our promise of the story yesterday. on the docket today, a disturbing story out of washington state, shocking video surfacing after little boy, 22 months old, with a marijuana bong. the cell phone video shows the toddler just 22 months old

briefly placing his face over the pipe and who is that person? who would be holding a bong up to -- oh, it's his mother. it's his mother. the 24-year-old mother was arrested. the child's father wasn't at home this time, but the cops arrested him, too, when they found at least 40 pot plants growing in the house not to mention several guns. the boy and five-year-old sibling placed in protective custody for now. should they get the children back? . joining me is arthur aidala and jonna spilbor. who, what kind of an insane party goer -- oh, wait, it's his own mother who thinks it's hilarious, if you listen to the video you can hear her cackling as her baby puts his face up to the bong. what should happen to her, jonna? >> megyn, if i were a family court judge, i would have no problem divesting these parents of their parental rights for a number of

reasons, but the first one is, no child should go from his mother's breast to his mother's bong. to me, this is no different, it's not funny, there's nothing funny about it. no different than if they took a syringe full of heroin and stuck it in his arm. i knew this would-- >> come on. >> this is a two-year-old child, it's inexcusable. >> it's not heroin in someone's arm. >> what's the difference. >> megyn: go ahead. >> i'm happy that we have the pipe coming out of the vatican and since we're doing a smoking segment. >> megyn: nice, all right. trying to tie this case to the vatican? >> no. look, it's indefensible what they did, period, amen. not whether they should be be punished whether, just what the punishment should be. you're talking about a woman who says she feels horrible. it's a moronic act. >> megyn: well, but let's be-- she said she feels horrible, but she also said, it was a joke. it was a stupid mistake.

i guess it wasn't really funny. so go ahead, arthur. >> but your honor, she does say on the record she feels horrible about it. >> they always do when they get arrested. >> megyn: they feel horrible when they get arrested. >> not mine, they feel horrible when they rob the-- megyn, you're talking taking children away from their parents forever? is that what my esteemed colleague is saying? that's a tremendously harsh, harsh punishment. >> megyn: you can do it, jonna, under the the law in washington state, if the parent gets convicted of criminal mistreatment of the child. >> you can do it under the law in a lot of state. this is a kid we're talking about. if you abuse a gun, you get it pulled from you. abuse your car, lose your right to drive. abuse your kid we shouldn't allow them to reunite. >> who should raise the children? >> responsible parents. >> here, judge kelly, you've got a couple of kids, you raise them. >> plenty of people would want-- >> any kid his age is surrounded by legos and power

rankers, this kid is is your wounded by bat dung and grow lights. >> it's horrible, not the same as sticking a needle in someone's arm and heroin there. >> no. >> there's no evidence that the child inhaled. >> oh, my god, please. >> don't make he me seem like im trying to rationlize. >> megyn: are you giving the bill clinton defense. >> it's not putting a needle in his arm. >> megyn: even the mother said he shouldn't have testify in his body. and recognize the experience with pot he got in him. >> doing this kid a favor. >> megyn: what are the options if not taking him forever, what can be done to help this moron. >> right. >> megyn: also known as his mother. >> you all agree about that. >> megyn: grow a brain. how do we get to that point? >> here is how we help her grow a brain. put him in foster care and mommy gets to visit him under

supervision while we pay for her to learn-- >> that's great for a child. >> until she finally gets it, if she gets it. >> a foot of evidence a child at 22 months old separated from their mother except for one hour a week under supervised conditions is really great for that child, i'd like to see what's worse, a kid being around marijuana or being pulled away from the mom. >> it's not just like she let him have a bong hit. she had 40 marijuana pots growing in her house. and now this wasn't the first time this child was around marijuana smoke. >> exactly. >> megyn: in the party context, arthur. >> you asked what should happen. what should happen for a period of time, yes, the children should be removed from the house, the mother and father should both be put in intensive supervised some sort of whatever and-- probation. >> thank you. and then parents, people should come to the house regularly to make sure the people are okay. >> megyn: we are going to chin following it, good debate. thanks to both of you. coming up, a new jersey woman

decides to quote the constitution as she argues against having her property taxes doubled and before the hearing is done she's charged with making terroristic threats. and trace has the story as we begin the vatican watch. to keep this from happening to me again. it's working. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before youegin an aspirin rimen. it can happen to anyone. talk to your doctor.

>> this is it. we are told that we should expect something from the chimney within moments now. four minutes away, five minutes away? the schedule we saw earlier told us to expect vote results sometime around 2 p.m. eastern, but they could come any second and they were pretty prompt yesterday given yesterday's timeline so we will continue to watch and you will not miss a moment. we're also watching these incredible crowds. look at the shots we got moments ago. some of these people have been standing here for hours in the

rainy, cold, roman square, staking out spots to see the chimney or to be close to the balcony where the announcement would come. we're back live in rome in just moments. in the meantime, this, a new jersey woman's first amendment fight grabbing national attention. ilene hart charged with making terroristic threats after allegedly quoting the constitution after she argued against having her property taxes doubled. trace gallagher has her story. >> she says she is not allowed to have someone in the house without her husband. and she got a note from the county that her property taxes doubled. and wondering how that's possible in a down economy. she goes to protest along with her seven-year-old daughter and her husband. mrs. hart begins reading from

the constitution, county assessor and the appraiser hired by the county tell her to stop. as she was leaving the meeting, she called a pencil pusher and he was irate. and took her license number and when the harts got home they were waiting and claiming she threatened to shoot up the county building. she was arrested and charged with terroristic threats. >> i never made a threat. i never used the word gun, i never spoke of the word gun in a sentence. i never said second amendment. my focus was on my property rights and the dispute against the property assessment. >> reporter: keep in mind there were others at the meeting, but apparently only the appraiser hired by the county heard the threat. we contacted the county and they gave us the statement saying, quoting, here, the county assessor has never

experienced this type of extreme behavior from a taxpayer. the police were notified because the asi representative, that's the appraiser, perceived the resident's statement as a threat, but police made her give up her weapons after that, right? all of her weapons saying if she didn't, her bail would go up. we contacted the county again asking did anybody else in the meeting hear this threat? they said you've got to talk to the cops. the cops aren't commenting and right now seems to be this appraiser's word against mrs. hart's word about this charge. >> megyn: wow, all right, trace, thank you. >> okay. >> megyn: fox news alert to rome. we are watching the chimney at the sistene chapel for a tell tale puff of smoke. the results of the day's final vote for pope could come any second. we are starting our second hour of "america live" a little early today because we don't want to miss a moment. if this thing actually does happen within the next three minutes we want to make sure

you see it. welcome back, everyone. i'm megyn kelly, look at the thousands of folks waiting anxiously on a rainy evening in st. peter's square. look at them and think about that. we see folks doing this for rock concerts and so on, just to get tickets and these folks are waiting for a different sort of rock star. our next pope, who after he is elected will be someone billions of people around the world will again continue to wait hours and hours, just to catch a glimpse of never mind perhaps lay hands on, perhaps hear from. earlier today we saw another vote and that produced black smoke which means no decision yet. catholics worldwide are hoping to see white smoke meaning the catholic church has a spiritual leader and will tell us so much about the course of the church when we learn who that man will be. with the selection of the next pontiff all, but imminent, what kind of challenges will he confront and what will we learn as soon as we learn the man's identity.

joining us live now from rome, father gerald murray from dioces of fall rivers, massachusetts and father, great to see you. >> good to be with you, megyn. >> megyn: there's been a lot of of talk in recent days, there are so-called reformists among the cardinals who would like to see a new pontiff who can sort of clean up the vatican and take a focus on some of the scandals that have pragued the catholic church and focus on improving those situations, versus some who want to see sort of a more traditional choice, somebody who might address those issues, but would be more focused on combatting secularism and so on. what do you think is likely to happen? >> i think it's basically a question of both. and when we talk about reform, we're talking about literally shaping something up, putting it into shape again and all the cardinals recognize, at least those who are non-italians working in the curia that the functioning on

the day-to-day basis of the roman curia needs to be improved. also, there are a lot of other areas in which the church could do a better job in articulating the message. so the cardinals all last week were talking about that and i think whoever walks out on that balcony is going to walk out with the mandate from his brother cardinals, as well as their collaboration in trying to address these issues to bring the church up to shape and up to strength. >> megyn: what would be the argument for going with someone as you say, inside the curia. i can see the argument going with somebody on the outside and the not going with anyone connected to the vatican bank scandal and others they've suffered, but what's the argument for going with someone inside that circle. >> if the cardinals elect to vote someone presently a member of the curia, the reason for that, they believe that he has the inside knowledge and the will and the courage to be able to reform it from within. if you were to take somebody who has no experience of the roman curia it might be a

little bit harder to carry out that reform and improvement that is needed. there are certain candidates, for example, like the canadian cardinal marc ouellet who has a reputation of being a great reformer and he was an archbishop in quebec city and he's come here and what you've seen him for the congregation of bishops in the vatican is something that's gotten many of the cardinals to ask could he do that throughout the entire vatican infrastructure. >> megyn: so you're saying that most of these cardinals want to see some of these reforms. it's just a question of who they feel will be best to implement those reforms? >> yes, or at the same time, the one who could supervise the reforms being done. so, what's happened here in italy. they recognize the pope can't be an organizational micromanager, but they want to trust his judgment that he would be able to surround himself with the types of collaborators who would be able to implement that type of reforming vision. and so for the first time i

think most reports here in rome have ever seen in the italian press, not only do they have the candidates for the papacy, but they have their guesswork as to who he would have as a secretary of state, which combines the position of foreign minister, as well as chief of staff, because they recognize that the pope can't delegate his preaching. he can't delegate separating the mass and sacrament, but he can delegate a lot of shep herding and reform work that everyone agrees needs to occur. >> megyn: how do they find somebody. you know, the catholic church has suffered anecdotally in terms of filling the pews in the sunday masses, in terms of the growth of secularism and that's such a huge challenge. not just to catholicism, but to many more organized religio religions. how do you find somebody? do you need somebody charismatic or likeable as opposed to an academic who can

speak to the masses and convince them at that catholicism is worthwhile? >> catholics believe there's an inherent beauty and attraction in the faith. the problem sometimes is we don't make it beautiful and attractive and we're not just talking about bishops and priests, we're talking about catholic mothers and fathers sometimes, catholic brothers and sisters, typical parishioners who would attend mass on a given sunday. what they're looking for is not necessarily someone who is going to at an intellectual level show some of the holes in secular logic, but someone who can inspire people, that the faith makes us joyful, the faith brings us something that our hearts are made for. that we don't often receive from many of the other sources. so i think you're going to see walking out on that balcony, someone who clearly has the intellectual chops to teach, but also, someone who has the personal chops to inspire people to give catholocism a

second look at this born and bred, but at the same time if they're a strong catholic, someone who can make them stronger so tthey're able to communicate the joy that flows from our faith to family, neighbors. >> megyn: there are a lot of of catholics who would describe themselves that way. and i want to talk about the frontrunners, we don't know exactly what's happening in the conclave, but they say they're the pro reform cardinal angelo scola of italy and then the more curia insider, who is brazil's odilo scherer. any idea-- we talk one reformer and one insider. how different would their approaches be? >> what they would share in common is so much greater than what would distinguish them. cardinal scola, who was my

teacher here in rome, is an absolutely brilliant academic who is a human brainstorm. he'll come up with lots of ideas, but the question that cardinals will have about him is how will he be in implementing those ideas. cardinal odilo scherer from sao paolo in brazil. he has a reputation for being far more methodical in implementation. while cardinal scola would have many more ideas what would be to reform, cardinal scherer would have fewer ideas, but at the same time that greater series of mechanisms and protocols to go step by step to bring those needed reforms in the practice of the roman curia, especially the speed with which they work, as well as to clean out some of the areas that don't function as they need to. cardinal francis george of chicago last week was saying publicly that one of the issues is when letters are sent in, for example, from

chicago requiring a quick response, a lot of the times that takes months, rather than days. and so, to speed up that whole apparatus, cardinal scherer, for example, and many others would have the know-how exactly how you would be able to improve those protocols on a day-to-day basis. >> megyn: father, i called you gerald murray because that was what was in the prompter and i know gerald murray and you're too polite to correct me. you're father roger landry and before we go, it appears, it appears gray. it's whitish. oh, will we -- will we hear the bells ring immediately father? >> based on-- i anticipate based on what we saw earlier, that that is definitely not black smoke. look for cardinal andrew scola to come out on the balcony. >> megyn: father, the smoke is white and appears we have a new pope as the crowds go wild

in st. peter's square in celebration. it is rather unambiguously white as one hesitates to say you don't want to get ahead of yourself, but you can see the square, the folks in the square feel the same as we do that that's white smoke coming out of the chimney in vatican city and your opinion is what on that, sir? >> my opinion is that it's clearly white smoke, compared to the type of dark smoke that we saw yesterday afternoon as well as this morning, so, i anticipate we're going to hear those words in the matter of about 45 minutes. >> megyn: what is happening inside of the vatican, yes, as the bells ring aloud, and you can hear the joyous shouts and cheers of the faithful and watching what is clearly white smoke coming out of the chimney. those cardinals have done their job and at least 77 of

the 115 have voted in unison for one man to become the leader of the catholic church. let's just listen for a minute. [bell ringin [bell ringing] >> . [crowd cheering]

bells ringin

. [bells ringing, crowd cheering]

>> father roger landry, you can feel the happiness and exuberance of the folks live in rome as they now know as the world does we have a new pope inside the vatican. we are told, folks, this is what has happened. once the cardinal has been elected, the master of the church ceremonies enters the sistene chapel and the senior cardinal will ask of the newly elected pope, do you accept your election as supreme pontiff? assuming the cardinal says i accept. the senior cardinal asks by what name do you wish to be called? and that name will be entered on a formal document. it's at that point the white smoke pours out of the sistene chapel chimney and so we believe that's happened and the cardinal elected has accepted the position. the new pope we believe at this moment is changing into

the white garment and one by one we believe the cardinals will be approaching him to swear their obedience. moments from now, we will meet the new pope and you will hear the announcement, latin, for we have a pope and he will be introduced to the world in latin and deliver his first words as pope. it will happen moments from now as you can hear, they have official business to take care of inside the vatican, but the celebration goes on outside in st. peter's square and look at the smiles on the folks' faces as they continue to celebrate. we're going to pause for one moment to let our fox stations join us. >> and good evening from rome, i'm shepard smith, it's 12 minutes past seven o'clock and tonight, we have a pope.

the white smoke began to rise from the sistene chapel because about three, maybe four minutes ago and by the thousands people in st. peter's square as the bells rang overhead began to scream in celebration. it is a cold and rainy night. it has rained all day long and thousands upon thousands have filled the streets waiting for the news that we have a pope, and it has now come. they have not announced who the pope is or from whence co cometh will be the pope. we know that the cardinals gathered for the conclave yesterday. on their fifth ballot of the two days were able to reach 77 votes for one of the 115 who walked in here as a cardinal and will come to the balcony at some point in this evening as the new pope, the new bishop of rome, the leader of 1.2 billion catholics around the world.

in just a little while, the cardinal from france, who's actually a-- will be leading tonight. his name is john louis theron. he'll come to the curtain and he'll announce we have a pope and he'll introduce who the pope is and read the pope's first name in latin and from that we'll be able to figure out who the pope is. robert moynihan is with us, he's the founder of inside the vatican.com. sir, it's the moment that catholics have been waiting since we learned of the resignation of pope benedict xvi. the front runner, it was our understanding, would be the cardinal from milan. >> angelo scola has been considered the front runner, shep, we don't know. >> he was considered the front runner? >> that's right. if he comes out, it won't be a big surprise.

he was close to pope ben ticket and archbishop of milan, considered to be the front runner in italian. we don't know, shep. they could be surprising us. >> one thing that we do know is, they had the morning -- the afternoon session voting yesterday and two votes this morning and two votes this afternoon. in 2005, when we stood in this exact same spot and benedict xvi, cardinal ratzinger was elected pope, it it happened in the afternoon session just as it did, but on the first vote of the afternoon session. the common thinking is whoever the front runner is, the front runner would be elected in the first day or so, otherwise they would have gone later in the ballot, but we'll know soon enough. tonight, as the rains fall and the bells ring and the flags wave and the one thing of absolute certainty, the catholic church has a new leader. and now to begin the work of bringing in more people and spreading the gospel. that is of course the primary

job of this -- of the catholic church. they want to fill the pews on sundays and they want to make sure that the church is run properly here at the vatican and around the world and megyn kelly in new york soon we'll know who the new pope is. >> megyn: it's an exciting moment here, shepard as it is around the world not just for the 1.2 billion catholics who are waiting to hear who their new spiritual leader is. for those who respect religion and the importance of it in so many people's lives. joining me now by phone, steven weiss, a fellow he in the catholic studies program. steven, your thoughts on the relatively quick selection of our next pope? >> yeah, thanks for having me on, megyn. who knows? you know, we've heard the name angelo scola mentioned, but we don't know what happened inside the sistene chapel other than we have

>> megyn: does it say anything about the man's popularity, the man's acceptability to the other cardinals that it happened relatively quickly? >> yes, certainly. i mean, it's unlikely that after this short period of time that the person chosen would have been a controversial choice or even sort of a compromise choice. this seems to be a man who a quick consensus was built around and it only took looks like five votes and they had him picked. >> megyn: would that suggest to you that it was and of course, this is all, you know, reading the tea leaves. we don't know. would it suggest to you that it was likely, it is likely one of those-- the men who we were describing as frontrunners? >> yeah, i mean, i think as father landry said earlier, look for angelo scola to walk out on the balcony. if it's not him it wouldn't be shocking, but if he does come out it's no surprise either. >> megyn: steven, i was talking with the viewers what's likely going on inside

the vatican right now. the newly elected pope would have already indicated his agreement to take the position and we are told would be putting on his white papal vestment now and getting ready to come out and address the crowd. is that likely what's happening inside at this moment? >> yeah, that's what's happening. what they're probably doing right now is stopping in the chapel before the blessed sacrament to pray. the pope, the new pope and his cardinals will stop before he comes out on the loggia and announces to the world, he and brother cardinals will pray, a pray of giving and guidance as he has a new ministry. and they will have a moment of quiet prayer before he comes out and cheering crowds greet him and people watch from all over the world. >> megyn: thanksgiving and guidance, two things i'm sure he's experiencing and wanting right now. steven, stand by, if you would, don't leave us because you've been so helpful to us here at fox over the past few days. i want to bring in john moody, author of "pope john paul ii a

biography" and executive editor here at fox news. what a moment, john. >> always a magical moment. i can remember in 2005 waiting to see who would succeed john paul ii and so many thought it was cardinal ratzinger and indeed it was, but-- >> it's so hopeful the same feeling as a wedding or the birth of a child, something hopeful for the future about a new page in history and what could, what could possibly be for the world's catholics and the faithful. >> yeah, that's right and the catholic church, it must be said, knows how to put on pageantry. >> megyn: one thing we know as catholics. >> probably the only major faith in the world that elects a leader this way, in secret and there's so much anticipation and no sureness.

in england it's the king or queen, but here they don't know. >> megyn: and he'll be coming out moments from now, and that we will all learn simultaneously who that man is and his life has just changed forever. >> his life probably changed several years ago when he became a priest, but you're absolutely right. this is certainly the highlight of any cleric's career or aspirations for it. i can remember when john paul ii the former cardinal cardinal wotilla came out and they'd say the pole they've selected and when he came out with the lovely smile and crinkly eyes and began with self-deprecation and said i'm sorry i don't speak your language and he stopped and said, our language, very clearly and everybody just

loved him right away. >> megyn: and that was the first time in how many hundreds of years they'd gone with a non-italian. >> i believe almost 600 years. >> megyn: that's the first time and then a german pope with then cardinal ratzinger and now we don't know. they could be going back to italian if it is scola or perhaps somebody from latin america, we're not sure yet. >> well, as we said, these mysteries are intended to be mysterious. i don't think it's any mystery the at all the italians would like to claim the papacy back. they had him for so many years and a little like the america's cup, they figure it belongs to them and they want to get it back. >> megyn: if it's scola, we don't know. look at the smile, the beautiful woman. >> it's genuine, the smiles are genuine. >> megyn: and people are bringing children out, why wouldn't they, to witness history. the same reason you bring your child to an inauguration of a president, it's history in the making and this is going to be our 266th pope and the very first one was appointed by jesus so it's a pretty good lineage.

a very good lineage to go by and to your point i just think that the joy that you're seeing in there now, yes, tomorrow, you know, they might get back and not like each other, these people in the crowd anymore and go back to their regular lives, but right now is moment, not just magical on earth, but a moment of connecting with god in a way we can't do very often. >> megyn: right, right, it's a moment. i'm amazed to see the number of young people in the crowd, too, john. the catholic church struggled to reach out to the younger demographic yet, look at the joy and smiles and enthusiasm on the young men, women and boys, not just children, but 12, 14 year olds are out there in the square. >> the great thing about this, the young people in that square have expectations now and suddenly they have hope, and hopefulness and of course, it's the greatest sin in the world to disappoint people like that. as jesus said, suffer about the little children to come unto me. and this is the chance for the

next pope to live up to expectations. >> megyn: and he's in there now and he's going to speak. he's going to speak momentarily and trying to listen out of one ear to hear if we're missing anything. we're not i don't think. he's going to speak momentarily and will most men have remarks written or extemporaneous or what do you think. >> i bet every pope about put his hand on the bible and say, i never thought it would be me. in their pocket probably crib notes or maybe an oscar winner would say i never expect this had, but thank the following people. >> megyn: i hope they don't repeat anne hathaway, it came true. i want to toss over to shepard smith live in rome where the action is and he's got father jonathan morris with him now. hey, shep. >> indeed, megyn. thanks so much. you know, one thing we know a little about what they were planning to do at this time, as they did back in 2005. first, there's a time for some-- there's a time for prayer and

reflection, and they have to get the vestments right, the papal tailor has made three different sizes of vestments, depending on who this may be, small, medium and large as they call it, and there will be some adjustments necessary. so, that will have to happen. they'll have to get everybody lined up and eventually come to the window, to the balcony and it's my understanding that our guidance from the vatican is the time between the smoke rising and the time they think they'll probably come out on the balcony is somewhere around 45 minutes. they're asking that you don't hold them to that too closely, but somewhere around 45 minutes so after they get the vestments right, out to the balcony they'll come and in italian they will say, i announce to you a great joy, father jonathan morris, a fox news contributor, a catholic priest with us here as he was back in 2005, wow. >> as soon as i saw the white smoke, i got peaceful and i'm

been anxious up until now because it's an exciting time and also a time of great waiting, of great importance. but now, just as those people in the square are screaming, viva il papa. without knowing who it is. we recognize we don't need a perfect pope, jesus chose peter and he denied him three times when he needed him most. we'll have someone there a representative for us in the leader of the church. it's extremely exciting times to know that a person with a history that comes from a family who has a mother and a father and brothers and sisters is going to walk out on that balcony and be the next pope. unbelievable. >> enormous challenges ahead. those are for another day. tonight it's for celebration of hope and faith and love and look at the pictures in the crowd. i want you to understand what it's like out here tonight. it's 25 minutes after seven o'clock in the evening, most of these people have been here

since about four o'clock, some as late as 4:30, 4:45 this afternoon, when it was about 52 degrees and raining. since then, it has rained and rained and rained and it's now 46 degrees. it's windy and really, really damp and cold and we have a tent over our heads on a 7th floor balcony. they have umbrellas. it's still raining, they don't feel their toes i'm positive because i haven't felt my toes in hours and yet, they jump around in excitement. it's not unexpected, but my go goodness been through a lot today. >> i bet the new pope doesn't feel his toes either. they take him into what's called the room of tears in which they ask him do you accept? and he has to make a choice. at that point i would think that anyone who wouldn't want to accept would have already said he wasn't a candidate, but yes, it's an amazing time,

too. >> father, song has broken. let's listen. ♪ ♪ >> and it's hard to make out what they're saying if you do speak the language, but i know one thing they're saying, we can't wait to meet the pope. >> that's right, i've been in the square many times and speak italian. the reason you can't understand it, because there are groups from all over the world and they're singing all sorts of language and doing it in their own way and that is, that's a picture of the church that is so many different ethnicities, so many even different views on different issues within the church and

there they are rejoicing in the fact that someone has been elected, even though they don't know who it is. >> you've seen flags from so many countries out there. two days ago we were in the middle of rome, the wettest and the worst weather for a march in 21 years according to the local forecasters. tourism has been very low. the economy has been very bad and all of a sudden yesterday and today, people from all over europe have streamed into this capital and it is alive and vibrant, even in the rain. >> it is, shep. and just the things that all of those people have had the experience of a lifetime in in moment of history. you know, i'm trying to go in my own mind, what the pope is doing right now and another thing that we know he's doing, he's standing there in front of all the cardinals and they come up by o come up one by one and make an oath of loyalty to him. former pope benedict did.

as he was leaving, among you 115 is the new pope and i promise my loyalty and obedience to you. all the other candidates who have not been chosen go single file and they come up to him and promise their fidelity, an act of humility. >> there's not a lot of pop and circumstance, a lot of spiritual activity that happened tonight, but at some point the pope would have been elected and the crowd dispersed, what then? >> and the pope will stay in residence for a few days, probably until the installation mass. and he has the option of switching from his room from a cardinal room to a pope room inside the residence. pope benedict decided to stay within his own rooms for a few days before he moves into the papal palace because he didn't want to go to the room next door, no need to, but that's what the pope will be doing, he will go back and stay

with-- he'll get caught up then on the responsibilities of his new job, which will include the installation mass, which could happen as early as later this week, or perhaps at the beginning of next. >> wow, a lot to be done tonight. we soon will find out who the pope is, is it cardinal scola from milan, a man seen as a reformer, or cardinal scherer from brazil, a man seen more of an insider, but certainly a favorite here or one of the other 113, megyn, i think we're probably 15 minutes away from knowing. >> megyn: the anticipation is building everywhere as we wait to hear the name. now we know someone has been chosen and wait to find out who. shepard back in a moment. we want to talk to tom peterson, founder of catholics come home as we watch the crowds continue to cheer and at seems it's a deafening roar coming from st. peter's square and has not let up, i should point out from the moment we

first saw the white smoke moments ago. tom, when the smoke first came out i said it looks like-- we didn't want to get ahead of ourselves, it didn't look black, but it didn't look pure white, but once it got going it was white smoke and your thoughts? >> the saying goes, if it's black smoke no pope, white smoke it's a pope, and if it's gray, they didn't know how to use the furnace properly, but we praise god that we have a new pope. it's exciting to see how the world is so jubilant about this vicar of christ and at a time when people wonder if people care about things anymore or religion? this givers us an insight, if we're faithful christians and focused on jesus and get this jubilant party in heaven some day. so i thank god for the vicar of christ who represents the catholics church and christianity worldwide and tries to bring peace around the world and change the world for the better.

praise god for this historic moment. >> megyn: it's a good point because you see and hear so much about growing secularism especially in the news business, i can tell you, and much less so do we focus on moments like this, moments of faith where people celebrate their faith and connection to god and see a square full of thousands of people doing exactly that. as you know, millions, perhaps more than a billion more are doing privately around the globe right now. >> megyn, we've seen incredible things where hundreds of thousands of people have come home to the church based on the catholics come home television commercial and finding them in the local dioces or national tv. how much more exciting it is that this is going worldwide to invite millions of people back home to jesus and his church. this is a jubilant time in our history and a time for us all to reflect on how can we grow closer to christ and how can we be better to our neighbors, this is exactly what the world is all about. >> megyn: stand by, if you would, tom for one second. i want to bring in john moody,

author of "pope john paul ii, a biography", what are we seeing here? >> and that's the swiss guard moving out, they of course are the symbolic bodyguard of the holy father and looks as if they're getting into position for the next part of the ceremony which of course will be revelation of who the next pope is. >> megyn: so they're getting close. is it a situation there would be a staging area behind the scenes where the new pope would be now wearing his new papal vestments and waiting to come out? >> yes, i think as somebody else was saying it's the room of tears, i'm sure it was given that name for a reason. there must be raging emotions going on inside that man right now whoever he is. he has to pick between a small, medium and large set of vestments made for him by the papal tailor, and after that, he again comes back out and meets what were his brother cardinals and are now his subordinate cardinals. >> megyn: and this balcony that we see and we'll show it to you again, this is where the newly elected pope will

come out and address the crowd? >> yes, you'll have the camera angle, the leading cardinal calm out and say-- >> don't get confused. the first person to come out on the balcony is not the newly elected pope. >> he will say we have a pope and he will read out the name in latin, first of all, the cardinals name in latin. >> megyn: to make sure we're thoroughly confused. >> thoroughly confused and he will say who will rule as-- and then he'll give the choice that the new holy father has made. >> megyn: and we-- some of us may know the new pope upon sight, if it's one of the frontrunners we may know, but as you're pointing out, it's happened in the not too distant past people say who is that guy? and running through the briefing book, saying it doesn't look familiar? >> the italian version of what did he say? 115 possibilities and i don't think anybody who's not a very close follower of these things

would say that he knows every single face. >> megyn: now, you're a news man and i'm a news woman and we're both catholics, this question is appropriate from me to you, are there ever any leaks, any chance we'll out moments before he steps on the balcony? >> i don't think that will be the case, i believe that they installed a pretty effective jamming system for any kind of mobile devices. i believe joe louis was saying that her own apartment nearby has been affected by this, so it works. >> megyn: wow. and it would be so improper and so out of character for something this joyful and this holy, if you will, to try to ruin it like that. i just can't think of who would do that. >> megyn: will there be a could coalesce behind the pope, inside the curia the others will get behind him as if they always had been.

>> they will profess allegiance to him and the catholic church in addition to a pathway to heaven as we believe, is also an institution and there are rivalries and grudges and people that don't get along. >> megyn: let's take a list and at st. peter's square. (cheers) ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪

. [crowd chanting]

. >> as you heard moments ago the crowd chanting viva il papa, and john moody, there's nothing to do, but wait for the revelation of the man's identity we know will be the 266th pope. >> it's a time you have to wait and see he what god has decided for the church and i'm struck by the face ins the crowd, we talked about it earlier, you hope after so many problems the vatican endured the past years that this is the face of catholicism that can be maintained during the papacy, happy, expectant, hopeful. >> megyn: it's a renewal and start for the catholic church because it's had a lot of of scandal and problems, but brought joy and blessings and goodness around the world. >> and that's the purpose of

the church to go out and help your fellow human being. i know whatever choice the cardinals have made, this new pope is going to dedicate himself to exactly that task. >> megyn: as you watch the crowd, with the joy and crowd and rock concert feel as i mentioned earlier. it's people who are not faithful, who don't consider themselves religious to relate to. because that shared experience of being together as a group and rooting for something or being joyful about something or mourning something, even, i mean, even some of the nonfaithful went into church after newtown, for example, went together and held one another and felt the connection to the fellow human being. we're seeing another form of that in some ways here. >> being together with other human beings is an essential part of humanity. whether it's a sad as newtown or this is an expected occasion, you want to share it with somebody else and say i was there then and somebody

says so was i. what did you think. >> megyn: we don't know when this will happen. one of the goals was to hopefully pick another man. none of the cardinals, who are up for it, but on the younger side so that we'll have this pope for years to come. it could be ten, 20 years before we go through this again, john. >> there's another possibility and there's another school of thoughts and i don't have any insights into it, what they want is someone who can come in and clean out the curia, and what many people think need to be done, clean out the administration of the church and perhaps not have a long papacy and pass it on to a younger man who might be another john paul ii. >> megyn: is there a thought of-- were there candidates who were believed to have the ability to multi-task on that front? >> well, i think that they have talked about managerial popes and that's probably delicately coded language or

going in and cleaning house and then there are others who certainly had more pastoral experience and been out in the world and seen the face of real suffering and real people and trying to be good and be a pastoral vote. >> megyn: knowing what you know about the catholic church and about the cardinals, does history tell us anything about which way they likely went. not asking you to choose a name, but in terms of direction? >> now, megyn, i think the thing that we all forget since we're not the 115 people in there, is that so much of it comes from prayer, reflection, trying to discern what god is telling them to do. the things that we think and the things that we write about and broadcast about may have very little to do with what's going on in their mind. >> megyn: it has been about 35 minutes since we saw the puff of white smoke coming out of the chimney. we are told it will take about, about that time, we were told 40, 45 minutes perhaps at the most, for what

needs to happen inside the vatican to happen before we see the new pope emerge right there before your eyes on that balcony. again, just to refresh you, the first person who will come out will not be the new pope. it will be the person who will be announcing the new pope. the proto-deacon, 69-year-old french cardinal. and it is not the 69-year-old french cardinal who emerges? then we can assume that he is the pope, but we believe that he hasn't been mentioned as one of the frontrunners so we believe he will be the first one to emerge and make the announcement, we have a pope. and announce to the world the new pope in latin and hopefully we'll recognize that person upon sight although it's not entirely clear whether we will. and it's funny, you know, john, these popes obviously in the catholic church are not allowed to marry, but they

have families and loved ones and those people, too, are watching right now wondering whether their loved one is about to emerge on the balcony. >> that's right, the anticipation from family members, for mothers,sisters, cousins, must just be unbearable. i mean, is it possibly him? i believe what we heard yesterday, that the mother of cardinal shomberg the austrian says he can't bepe, he's too good nationed, too nice. >> megyn: and the moments before this one, a nun holding the rosary, it's just a small sign that so many of us and use our views to remember the closest of god and my nana who has that on her and use that is to get through everything, that's a symbol of faith and what it means to pray and to believe in god. to be a catholic and this is the embodiment of all that. >> well, your nana and me,

too, i've got mine with me right now. and it's just a symbol that brings us all together. and you mentioned the nun holding the rosary, i think it's interesting to see how this next pope decides to approach nuns, the women who have given their lives to a religious life. there's been a little bit of dispute recently with american nuns, i think now would be a perfect time for the new pope to say, sisters, we understand what you do for us and we thank you. >> megyn: how hard is it to-- there we go, there it is. how hard is it do you think it's to find a cardinal to become pope. when one thinks of the catholic church one doesn't think of a progressive body and i don't mean that in a sense of liberal, but i mean always forward looking always at the advanced edge. they're more traditional. >> it will be difficult because none of these cardinals knows the hardships of being a sister, obviously, but they can appreciate the incredible devotion that these

women bring to their job and i think it would be an excellent sign, now, pope john paul ii took at his personal motto dedicated to the blessed virgin, all for you. and i think a return to that kind of dignity and that recognition of service would be an excellent first step for this pope to take. >> megyn: now we are pushing forwards 40 minutes since the white smoke so we should be getting there, folks, any minute and you can see that the pomp and circumstance that the catholics do so well has quieted down a bit outside of the vatican and so, they clearly believe that something's going to happen and john was telling me they practice, because you saw how well executed the performances were and sort of the protocol was executed and yet, they do get to practice although they apparently do it off site. even though this doesn't happen very often they know what they're doing. as we continue to await the actual announcement, i want to check in with our own shepard smith live in rome and has a

guest with him. father gerald murray. shepard? >> megyn, thanks so much. and the smoke at 7 minutes past seven o'clock in vatican city so we're a little bit overtime and we anticipate that this will begin in just a moment. father, so nice to see you tonight. thank you for being here. >> thank you, shep. >> there are a lot of little things that have to be done, time for prayer, have to get the vestments just right and the big moment is coming. what are you expecting to hear from the cardinal who is now pope? >> well, this is the moment when he makes his first greeting to the world and to the church. and i'm sure he's going to throw his arms out widely and welcome the people and tell them that he is now their father. he is the shepherd of the church and guides them to christ and answer their prayers, i'm sure. >> in 78, a self-deprecating humor from john paul ii and then in 2005, cardinal ratzinger was sort of widely

expected and people got sort of exactly what they thought, i think. tonight, a great anticipation and a lot of wonder. >> it is, and we've been hearing names, we're going to see in any of those prognostications are correct. the great thing about the church, once you see the pope, everyone embraces him and i'm sure he's going to make a wonderful impression on us all. >> in your estimation, the first thing that it would-- that would be good for this pope to do beyond the embrace, which is no doubt about to happen. the next order for the church, and for the followers? >> well, i think he has to reaffirm, believing in god and following his path is worth giving your life to. reaffirm the religious message and secondly, tell people the love of christ is not limited to believers, we have to go out and bring the love to the world and takes form in the acts of charity and preaching the faith and being a missionary. >> at this point the church is hoping to bring in more