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tomorrow on our show. >> alisyn: we hope you'll tune in. we have geraldo rivera and two bear cubs, a monkey and sumo wrestlers. >> brian: i thought so. >> steve: join us in the after the show show. >> i'm not one of the sumo wrestlers. it's a new day and a new morning and the first full day for pope francis starting the day today. in a surprise visit he visited a roman basilica dedicated to the virgin mary, praying there. so his first official act in rome a short time ago. welcome, everybody, to our coverage as it continues live in new york city. you are here at "america's newsroom." quite a day. martha: you hear the cheers in the background. brings you back to the incredible moment, what many people saw as hopeful surprise. good morning to you. good morning to everybody at home. i'm martha maccallum. right now we're awaiting for pope francis to celebrate

his inaugural mass in the sistine chapel. he is the first pope as you know from the americas. bill: we heard timothy dolan call it a day of renewal for the church. religion correspondent lauren green live from vatican city. what is the mood there today, lauren, hello? >> reporter: hello to you. there is a lot of energy in rome. i have to pick up the papers. this is what you see when you pick up the papers. the new pope is on front page of precht every paper. this is the pope of the poor. he indeed a simple and humble man. you saw he left the vatican to go to st. mary basilica. in a simple black car, not the popemobile. to pray at the st. mary basilica. he has a particular devotion to the mary. and, that is what he told the crowd last night. they packed into the

st. peter's square, rain soaked but they didn't seem to mind. they saw their first view of the new pope. even his appearance signaled something was different. he wore the simple white cassock, the skullcap. he did not wear the papal red, elbow length cape with fur lined. everything about him signaled something different. people they just didn't care. they wanted to see him. take a listen. >> it was amazing. it was very emotional. i'm catholic, and so this was a dream come true, you know, for me and for my family and so it was amazing to be here. we were right up in the front. everybody was chanting, you know, papa francisco, it was very, very exciting. >> i hope he will bring unity to all the catholic people around the world. that they will come back to the church and forget about everything that has happened

and all the problems of the past. >> reporter: you know, it is interesting, eight years ago when he participated in the conclave he was second reportedly to cardinal ratzinger that became pope benedict. he is first latin american pope. he is the first jesuit. he is the first noneuropean in centuries. an incredible label of firsts. also the first pope francis. so many things about this man signal ad different direction the church is heading. bill? bill: pretty soon it will be time to get down to work here. described as a humble, simple man. what are they saying about how he will handle the challenges ahead, lauren? >> reporter: that is one of the big questions right now because you know he is not of the curia. how he is going to take on sort of that scandal-plagued organization still remains to be seen. take a listen.

>> steep learning curve for him. what will be key who he trusts, who he gets advice from, who he appoints as his secretary of state and who are his key advisors because they're going to help him understand the curia and get control of it. >> reporter: so the next thing on the plate for pope francis i will be the mass with his, well, not any longer his fellow cardinals but the cardinal electors who voted him into the office. you about one thing is pretty interesting about him, how simple he is. he reportedly went to his hotel and paid his own bill when he picked up his things. he also refused elevated stand to greet the other cardinals. he wanted to greet them on the same level. that says a lot about him, bill. bill: i'm liking what i'm hearing, lauren. thanks, lauren green at the vatican there. what is ahead now for the new pope? greg burke from the vatican will join us live in a few minutes. we'll talk to greg moments away live in italy.

martha: here at home, latin americans are excited about the argentinian pontiff. listen to some of their reaction. >> so it's like, north america, central america, south america, and of course being argue gentine i'm very proud of it. >> americans are known for their strength in catholicism. i think this will inspire great devotion to our lord. martha: there are about 68 million catholics in the united states. of that number 24 million of them are latino catholics. they make up 35%, they make up 35% of all catholics in the united states. more than 2/3 of all latinos in the u.s. consider themself to be roman catholic. bill: you look over the past 100 years and we put this graphic to show our viewers. this is 100 years ago, 266 million catholics around the

world. about 100 years later in modern times, by the way the circles are the level of concentration of the church in 1900. watch what happens when you move the slide rule and how the circles change around various continents. present day, 1.2 billion catholics worldwide. you see how the bigger got much bigger in europe, asia, africa. here in latin america, central and south america, 425 million catholics. 39%, almost 40% of the catholics around the world are considered in central and south america. here is the circle 100 years ago. look where it goes to modern times today. quite remarkable growth for the catholic church there. meantime, martha, i was looking at this research booklet that came out before the conclave began. pages in length. a couple of newspaper articles that came out before the conclave began. i went back over them again last night. francis is not in here.

so my guess is, my guess is they thought his time could have happened in 2005 and perhaps his time had passed. and they would not revisit this but indeed they did. martha: john moody, who we spoke with yesterday on radio, brought up this name to us again. he was one of the only people i heard who was saying, there was so much talk about a younger pope, everyone believed this time around it would be a younger pope. they chose one of the oldest members of the 115 voting cardinals that there there. and i think the feeling was he could do the work that needed to be done, whether his time there be short or long. who knows, you know? who knows? he looks very healthy. bill: we sit here and cover so many stories that end badly and it was a beautiful thing to see so much joy. martha: very nice surprise. bill:. people with tears streaming down their faces and all of the excitement in st. peter's. it was really a very emotional story. so rare we get to see something like that.

pretty special. all right, something also pretty special, not quite of the same magnitude has been happening on wall street over the past several trading sessions. they have had a nine-day winning streak that continued but that's not all. the dow is up nearly 10% from a year ago. that is a pretty significant move. the green arrow streak has been the longest one since november of 1996. it has been 16 years since you've had this many consecutive days of up market closes. so that is a pretty good thing to hang your hat on wall street these days. let's go to fox business network's charles payne to give us a little bit of the meaning of this. charles, i don't think i ever felt such a large die come -- dichotomy what the market is doing and americans experience seems to be. is there good times ahead? >> it used to be a stock market was a direct barometer of america and america's economy. that is not necessarily the case anymore. main street malaise and

frustration is valid. wall street, particularly talking about the dow jones industrial average, talking about the 30 biggest companies in this country, that move is valid as well. these guys are getting profits from outside of this country. the world can't get enough products from ibm. caterpillar 70% of the its business outside of this country. parent company of kentucky fried chicken, they don't care what happens here, the news from china better be good or their stock goes up and down. anywhere near all the cylinders that we could fire on and american public knows there and obviously they're very frustrated by it. martha: what do we have to do to get growth cooking back in this country again, charles? >> i got to tell you, i don't know over the next four years we will have the exact gameplan we need to be quite frank with you. there is different agenda out there controlling things, anti-business, anti-success agenda. but here's the good news. we have an amazing economy. when you hear people talk about america becoming great, even greece didn't become greece overnight.

they became communist socialist in set of knife. takes a -- '75. takes a long time to, household debt, people watching this show right now, they have gone through so much pain. they have actually got more money, disposable money at end of the day than they have had in the last five or six years. they're not putting it to work per se. they are afraid, rightfully so, we need jobs to come back. that is really the key. perhaps there is hope. market got old image of harbinger things to come. typically on wall street when i came on the street, whatever the stock market does that is what america will do over next six months. we kind of lost that veneer we peaked one month before the great recession began. nevertheless hopefully that is good sign this time around. martha: it is an interesting world we're dictated by what kentucky fried chicken is doing in china. >> it is. martha: who knows where that real estate market is headed. charles, thank you so much. we'll see you soon.

>> okay. bill: we've got breaking news right now. reports of a cruise ship stuck in the caribbean again? it's happening right now. we're working this story. we'll bring you developments in a matter of moments here on "america's newsroom.". stay on dry land i guess, right? also in a moment here more on this story. martha: six months after our ambassador and three others were murdered in benghazi on september 11th, the white house is now announcing a replacement ambassador there. what has changed and will the security better protect that person at this point? we'll talk about that. bill: that is critical, right? battle over tours of the people's house who the blame is now being shifted to at the moment we'll debate this. >> he is the president of the united states and wholeheartedly want to belief everything he says but after everything that is occurred i will wait for the actions. if the president is sincere and really wants to work with us, that will show itself over the next several months as we try to work on some of the biggest challenges this country has ever spaced

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where right now virginia attorney general ken cuccinelli has made quite a name for himself in recent years speaking to top conservative leaders and possible 2016 white house hopefuls expected to speak over next few days. florida senator marco rubio, kentucky senator rand paul, south carolina senator jim demint are expected to speak today. they have have a 2016 straw poll to give a glimpse what voters might be thinking in terms of the republican presidential ticket down the road. we'll bring you any developments as they happen here in "america's newsroom". bill: meantime the first pope's new order of business happened earlier today. pope francis praying at a roman basilica dedicated to the virgin mary as his holiness begins a busy schedule. he will have an inaugural mass at the sistine chapel. and pope francis will do something that no pontiff

has done in centuries, call on a former pope. greg burke, communication director at the vatican and former colleague of ours at fox news channel. greg, it was an exciting night and certainly an exciting day yet again today. point of clarification here, do we know he chose the name francis after st. francis of assisi or staint francis xavier? has he said that yet? >> we're told by father lomb barred did i -- lombardi a short time ago it was st. francis of a sees see. i don't think you can reject st. francis xavier a fellow jesuit. at the same time, st. francis xavier a great missionary and evan gellizer bringing the gospel to the far ends of the earth. it will be interesting when the pope talks about that. it was a fransiscan that suppressed the.

>> you its. it is like a fell closing of the circle, bill. the. bill: the name is so significant. it reflects how this particular pope feels about his own mission within the church and outreach we will likely see from him. to be clear he has not stated why he chose that name himself directly yet, correct? >> that is correct. he himself has not. we have seen signs of simplicity already in the cross he took last night. he didn't take the more elaborate one. he took his own. we also going down didn't get into the papal limousine but got into the bus with other cardinals. already the way he is dressed. one other thing which could have been more elaborate. i don't even know the name of it. and he did not take that. certainly that has already resounded here. you know you can see that and you can see the simplyty of the man. bill: when will he see in person pope benedict and was there indeed a phone

conversation last night? >> there was a phone conversation last night, bill. shortly after the election he did speak with pope benedict. he is expected to go out to the summer residence to see him sometime before the inaugural mass on tuesday the only thing for sure it won't be today. it could possibly be monday which is an open day right now for pope francis. bill: why do you think they came back to him? i say come back to him because he was largely considered to be one of the leading contenders in 2005. >> well, that in itself is a reason, i believe, that he was there. so he was a known quantity. then the other things, bill, obviously his style is very attractive in this moment. there is no doubt about that. we already saw that. the kind of person he is. we saw it last night as he spoke to the crowds. and finally, the fact that he comes from latin america. latin america represents practically one half of the catholic world right now. bill: we were going through the short list a couple of moments ago before we came on the air here. he wasn't on a lot of lists.

was he on your short list? >> he was not on my short list because of his age. had i been a little smarter he would have put some money down on him. certainly i thought thought it was the age count him out after a pope was elected at 78. i didn't think the cardinals were ready for one at 76 but the holy spirit is full of surprises. bill: we reference the vote in 2005. a lot of this is secret. is it true he finished second to benedict eight years ago? >> it is apparently true. that stuff is not supposed to come out. it's very serious actually that it should not but apparently was not only told by one cardinal but confirmed by another. bill: i see. timothy cardinal dolan from here in new york earlier today said that the church is on the road to renewal. how would you interpret that comment, greg? >> i interpret that as, there's a signal here of the simplicity of the man at

which is going to be very attractive. he, now that is not to say he is softy. he had tough jobs. archbishop of buenos aires is not easy. he was the head of the. >> you its in argentina. they have had a lot of difficulties. had to bridge the gap. dealing with a lot of difficults in argentina. i think cardinal dolan has it right. we've already seen that, by the reaction of the catholic people. bill: greg, thank you. we'll speak real soon. greg burke, spokesperson of the vatican. martha: fascinating. we'll talk about a little more as we move along the show right now but they are paid with your tax dollars. now more than 300,000 federal contractors are dodging paying their taxes if you can believe this story. a democratic lawmaker is going after those workers and she will join us next. bill: also this picture became a symbol of washington waste after taxpayers paid for a lavish

las vegas conference. government workers attending there including this guy in the hot tub. wait until you hear what this federal agency is doing now. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally.

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[♪...] [click click] [♪...] bill: all right. fox news alert now. i mentioned this about ten minutes ago. yet another carnival cruise ship is stranded with no power. the coast guard saying that the captain on board the carnival dream notified them that the ship's emergency generator which powers the propulsion system is not working. luckily that cruise ship which has the capacity to hold about 5,000 is docked in st. martin. it is not at sea at the moment. this is month after a carnival cruise ship was stranded for five days in the gulf of mexico. we're working that story out of saint marten.

martha: they're going after federal contract avoided paying taxes despite being paid by your tax dollars. think about that. according to an irs report, 312,000 employees of the federal government owe back taxes. in fact they owe $3.5 billion when you put it all together in back taxes. can you believe that? joined by california democrat, congresswoman jackie spears. she is one of the lawmakers spearheading, pardon the pun this legislation. good to have you with us congresswoman. welcome. >> thank you. martha: let me get this straight. federal employees own a combine 3.5 billion in back taxes? what are the rest of us doing, silly us, paying our taxes, right? >> well, here's the real issue though. with the federal employees they can have their wages garnished up to 15%. in the regular civilian force, it can only be garnished up to 10%. and actually the default rate or the, lack of payment

among federal employees is less than the general population. the bigger problem are the federal contractors who are receiving $5 billion in tax dollars in federal contracts even though they owe income tax and aren't paying it. we have no way of garnishing their wages. so this particular bill and i'm joined with congressman chaffetz who is a republican on the committee and together we have introduced this bill that focuses in on the federal contractors who, right now they do not have any ability to prevent them from getting additional contracts. so this would prevent companies that aren't paying their federal income tax from going ahead and getting additional federal contracts. >> hear you and i know your focus is on this part of it. one of the things that surprised me was that there are already federal acquisition rules that forbid contractors from getting these jobs if they have delinquent tax debt.

then president obama back in 2010 ordered the irs to crack down on just these kind of instances of contractors getting deals when they owed back taxes. so, i mean, once again, you just shake your head. we have so many rules on the books. why is it hard to enforce rules or there? >> in part it is the fine print because the various agencies can create a waiver for contractors they want to use. so this bill will require that they have got to come to congress for the waiver instead of the department. and i believe will change things dramatically. martha: i think one of the main reasons that people are upset about the other, the bigger number, that $3.5 billion number, inlike those of us in the rest of the population federal employees are paid for by tax dollars. they pay their tax dollars. folks being supported by those tax dollars and their salaries are not doing the same thing. >> but, martha, here's the point, we actually can

garnish their wages. do garnish their wage. >> do we? >> we garnish them to the tune of 15%. whereas other companies garnishing the wages of their employees can only garnish only 10%. it is federal contractors we have no hook in. but the federal contractors continue to get the federal contracts and don't pay the past income taxes of the those should be the priority. we have a remedy for other federal employees. martha: i hear you. we want to shed some light in it dark corner to make sure this doesn't happen again. you made a great point a few minutes ago, that the agencies wanted a way to allow the contractors to basically get away with it. how do you crack down on the agencies them service to make sure they can't get away with that through this bill i guess? >> exactly right. through the bill they have to come to congress if they want a waiver. martha: congresswoman, thanks. >> my pleasure. bill: government money not paying taxes and still get

the government contracts and make even more money. martha: where is the incentive to pay your taxes right? bill: six months after four americans were killed in benghazi the next ambassador to libya has been named even though no one has been arrested for the murder of chris stevens. general jack keane says that is outrageous. he joins us live on that. martha: the white house is taking serious heat for the canceling of the public tours. you heard this no doubt going back and forth. who does the white house now say is at fault in all of this? >> you're try alizing impact here. people will lose their jobs. 3/4 of million people will lose jobs. the law stipulates what the costs will be for each agency. those jobs will be lost. okay? and, you can report on white house tours or you can find out what the impacts are out in the real world. [ whistle blows ]

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order now and get this document shredder, a $29 value free. [♪...] call or go online now. [♪...] bill: we have an update on this breaking news out of washington at the cpac conference there. allen west is now talking. we'll continue to cover of this story. a number about speakers will be at the lecturn and we'll bring you their comments throughout the day today and as it continues tomorrow. ken cuccinelli is the attorney general in the state of virginia. he might be governor it if he gets his way in the election. here he is in a moment just during the time out we just had here. >> he believes that government is the solution

for every problem facing our nation today and then by expanding its power, which always comes at the expense of the citizens power, we can have a different future. and well, that would lead to a very different future. but i have a very different view of america's future. i see a nation where our people are once again driven, given the freedom to pursue and eye chief the american dream. where hard work is rewarded and success is a good thing. bill: that from moments ago. one. headliners this morning. much more to come on that out of washington throughout the day here. in the meantime there is breaking news on a standoff upstate new york ending with a deadly shootout. police now say they shot and killed the suspect after a deadly shooting spree there. all happened about an hour ago in an abandoned building. police believe 64-year-old kurt meyers killed four

people, injured two more yesterday and apparently in this small town in upstate new york, it was a scene that was carried out at a number of different locations. then there was a standoff that lasted well into the day, into the evening hours overnight. then at daybreak earlier today we were given notification this man has been shot and killed and taken out. eric shawn is near the scene. we'll bring you his live report in a matter of moments here on "america's newsroom.". martha: call it bureaucratic hostage taking the pr mess it has on its hands after they canceled the white house tours. boy this thing blow up because of the sequester cuts. initially the president put all the blame on the secret service. after mounting skepticism and criticism, press press finally said the buck stops with the white house. here is what he said -- press secretary jay carney. >> the secret service made

the decision about its budget and to withdraw personnel from tours. >> right. and then -- >> we had to cancel the tours. it is our job to cancel the tours. they can not cancel them. martha: boy, what a mess, right? so we do hear that president wants the tours to resume for visiting schoolchildren but it has not been finalized yet. so they're trying to dig themselves out of this one which is something they probably don't want to be talking about you but its out there. doug schoen joins me, former pollster for president clinton and rich louer, "national review." both fox news contributors. doug, why do you think this has caught so much attention? >> because it is a symbol how the bureaucratic process, martha, in washington has impacted ordinary people. michelle obama a couple years said what we all believe, this is the people's house and the fundamental i think right, responsibility, of any government is to open up the white house as a living symbol of our democracy to people who come to washington.

the fact that after the sequester the principal impact we all feel we can't go on white house tours strikes a raw nerve especially at a time when the white house staff hasn't cut back and when there has been no appreciable impact in the country of sequester. martha: we've done stories how many white house employees make six figures. >> the calligrapher. martha: the calligrapher makes the $6,000 a year. >> right. martha: rich, it is optics, whatever you want to call it and contrary journalees, it looks bad, right? >> right. i can't say it any better than doug. he stated perfectly why this has such symbolic resonance. also, martha, smacks of typical, cynical budget politics. this is what any government does when there are any sort of cuts and it wants to make the public feel the pain in a high-profile way to get the public to back off the cuts. so i've been amazed, martha,

how poorly the whole sequester fight has gone for the white house because a general rule of thumb going back decades when there is high-profile budget fight between the president and congress in washington the president almost always wins and he is losing this thing because he overplayed his hand with exaggerating the effect of the sequester before it took effect. and then, this white house tour thing has been a debacle. martha: when you look at sort of the big picture here, doug, i think this is something that resonated with the americans alot, they were told this would be such a big scary thing this sequester. $85 billion. you look back to the hurricane sandy aid, $50 billion. you start to sort of have, there is incredulousness believing that these billions matter. why is it fine for them to go in one place and disasterous if we give up nearly same amount of money for it to go in another direction? i think people feel like they're just not getting the whole story. >> i think that's right. and also they understand that whatever your politics are, we don't have a budget,

we don't have a long-term plan to rein in spending, to reform medicare and medicaid. to cut defense, to basically balance our budget and reduce our debt. when people see these symbolic issues as rich was saying where the people suffer and the politicians and the political class don't, it just drives home how dysfunctional our system in washington is and, how great the need is for change. >> i think, martha, that goes to a major political miscalculation the white house has made here. it thought through further confrontation, high-profile and tense confrontation with these issues it could drive down republicans numbers further and make them surrender. instead of partisan confrontation hirt the president's numbers. he is at a or below in polls now. that's why you're seeing at least a new tone and some high-profile outreach for him. martha: charles krauthamer last night talking about in the president has given up x number of golf trips there

would be no problem keeping white house open for tours, ouch, right, doug? >> martha, ouch. rich is onto something. president didn't want to compromise. didn't want to have dinner with republican senators. didn't want to grow up to capitol hill. he is doing that because the numbers in mid 40s. when president numbers start dropping as i say somebody who was in the white house it is very hard to arrest the decline. so the president and his team is really, really unnerved by what is happening. they don't have a budgetary plan. they don't have a strategy. all these symbolic issues as charles krauthamer and i rich, talking about with you today, martha, all of them weigh heavily on a president's ratings and position. martha: doug schoen, rich lowery, always great to have you here. guys, thank you so much. bill: so the budget cuts are not stopping federal organizations from giving out high-paying internships. high-paying internships. i thought internships were free?

nasa, will hire interns for $83,000 a year. martha: wow. bill: research center is offering pricey internships, well as the warning goes out to americans on impact of automatic budget cuts you were talking about. that is one of many examples. read about all this in a full article posted on our web page on foxnews.com. martha: here we're trying to convince college kids benefit of unpaid internship which you will get a great experience which you do at fox news by the way but boy. bill: internships are vital. health and human services $61,000 for a student extern. my guess you will have little conversation with your kids to neat. martha: consider nasa for the summer, kids. you remember those lavish vegas government conferences that we showed you paid for. you can't make it up. you really can't. a major change for one government executive who got canned for over the whole

scandal. wait until you hear what happened to him now. ♪ @e@8ñúñ÷@@@0@ú

bill: there will be a major announcement from the white house. president obama nominating debra jones to be next u.s. ambassador in libya. she previously served as ambassador for kuwait. the libyan assignment comes after a deadly assault on our consulate in benghazi that claimed four american lives including the former ambassador chris stevens. with some questions still unanswered about the terror attacks is it time to send another american ambassador to that country? general jack keane, retired four-star general, former vice chief of staff of the army and fox news contributor with strong opinions on this, general. good morning to you. not a single arrest for the murder of chris stevens and three others. you call that outrage just. explain.

>> oh, yeah, the attack itself, burning down a consulate, driving out the cia and killing an ambassador and three others electrified that region and certainly emboldened them. they were all hungering down expecting the united states to pounce on them. we essentially are conducting a criminal investigation. 9/11, 12 years ago, the major lesson was, that a terrorist attack is an act of war and it's not a criminal act requiring an investigation. and we're going back to pre-9/11 here, conducting a criminal investigation. the cia, bill, within 24 hours knew which organization conducted that attack. ansar al-sharia. that means they also know who the leaders of that organization are. the president should have issued a finding and authorized, targeting of that organization, much as we target the al qaeda leadership in pakistan and the al qaeda leadership also in yemen but failed to do

so. bill: i think everyone thought we were going to pounce and we haven't. why not? >> well, it is, it is one, how they look at a terrorist act. they're going back to pre-9/11 and looking at it as a criminal act, as opposed to an act of war. the cia --. bill: but, listen, we helped the french in northern mali for crying out loud. >> and the french are in northern mali, the french are in northern mali, emboldened by what took place in benghazi because the sanctuary the al qaeda had in northern mali, no longer comfortable with that, they thought they could seize the entire country. that is why the french jumped on that to stop that from happening. bill: you don't know the new ambassador, right, ambassador jones? >> no, i don't but she has got extensive experience. they took six months to decide who should two in there. this is somebody that's been involved in the region for 30 years. so --. bill: she also has enormous challenges because the security in libya is still

an issue here and so many of the islamist fighters in iraq and afghanistan came from eastern libya. they're still there. what do we do about the security situation now as we get ready for this next appointment? >> well we had a policy failure in libya in my judgment that really led to the operational failure which was the lack of security and that is we did not help the libyan government stand up adequate security forces and therefore the al qaeda and its affiliates and other militant groups run rampant in this country. they're armed. they do house arrests themselves. they put people in prison themselves. they torture people themselves. the government has not exercised control. we should be helping them to do that. we know how to do this. we have huge experience in doing that to help stablize that country. that's the number one requirement this government has. i'm sure our leaders here in washington are getting an earful from the libyan leadership who are here now.

bill: six months and counting. general jack keen thank you for your time today out of washington. >> good to talk to you, bill. martha: from that story we have breaking news how lawmakers are trying to get some answers from people who have not been allowed to talk about this when it comes to the benghazi attacks. big story coming up. stay tuned for that. they say a picture is worth a thousand words and boy, this one was, wasn't it? and it spelled out wasteful government spending. wait until you hear what happened after the luxurious las vegas conference on your dime and it is still going on. we'll be right back.

martha: a big story we did a while back. the gsa rehired a top executive that was fired

last year after that big scandal erupted over the lavish las vegas conference that you all paid for on the taxpayer's dime. gsa officials say paul pruoty did not attend the four-day conference in 2010 and he will receive 11 months in back pay now because he was suspended from his job. john fund joins me now, columnist for "national review.". john, it is very difficult to get fired from a government job, isn't it? >> well i think this incident encapsulates almost everything, martha, that is wrong with our not so civil service. this is a complete outrage. he was one of the top managers at gsa. he in fact was acting head of it for a while three years ago. one of two things went wrong with him. either he was not on top of the things manager and he approved this ridiculous conference that wasted $800,000, or, he was completely out to lunch,

breakfast and dinner and didn't know what was going on, and was a bad manager and should be fired. this confirms people in government do a horrible job, and what do they get, a 11-month vacation? martha: it is unbelievable. you would think, and you stated, so well, john, because either he didn't know what was going on and that's a problem or he did, and that's a problem. but what it says to me along the way here there is just this acceptance, this sort of, well, everybody does this stuff, right? this is agency sort of pep talk, employee rally. we went out to vegas, what is the big deal? terrible people are out there pointing fingers at us when we're just trying to rev up our employees. >> this conference was outrage just by government standards. they $3200 mind reader to play carnac the magnificent or whatever it was. look, the real problem what happens to the average employee at gsa. they did fire 11 people over this conference, 11 low

level people but the big guys got off. the jeff neely the guy who organized the conference was not fired but allowed to retire with full benefits. and prudy is reinstated to 11 months back pay. the lesson to employees, are you can get fired but bosses won't be. that is precisely wrong management lesson to send. martha: did it boil down to work place attorney who convinced them really just wasn't his fault? >> well the average government employee can't afford a bigshot attorney to represent him in front of the merit system protection board and appeals process. proud di who has been with the government for 40 years had a union that helped him get an attorney like this. martha: john, we'll drum you right out of this story with the bongo drums in las vegas conference. unbelievable. and really important to shed light on these stories so people understand how the money is being spent out there. john, good to see you. >> thank you. bill: good work if you can get it.

get $84,000 --. martha: drum an a drum all day. bill: $84,000 internship at nasa. sign the daughter up. lizzie is coming your ways, guy. another big meeting on the hill happens today. president obama meets with senate republicans after a day he met with house leaders. what speaker boehner says they gained in that meeting. have a listen. >> republicans want to balance the budget. the president doesn't. republicans want to solve our long-term debt problem. the president doesn't.

martha: a big meeting on the hill. president obama meeting with senate republicans and house democrats. president's third trip he made there this week. lots of back and forth from the white house to capitol hill these days. brand new hour starting in "america's newsroom" on a thursday. i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. good morning. they're doing a lot of talking, aren't they? this is all part of a new push to make a deal to cut

theeficit with a government shutdown that looms less than two weeks in this month. martha: again, really? here we go again. let's go to chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel who joins us live from capitol hill. is there a difference, mike, over the continuing resolution, cr which lets us keep going and the actual budget? >> reporter: martha, there is. the immediate concern is the continuing resolution which would fund the government from march 27th to the end of the fiscal year. as the senate gets to work this morning everybody seems to realize they need to act quickly to avoid that government shutdown and nobody seems to be in the mood for a government shutdown at this point. on the budget released by democrat patty murray late yesterday, well top republicans are not impressed. >> i'm very concerned by the fact that this budget appears not only to hurt economy by increasing taxes at a time we can't afford it but also doesn't deal with the fundamental problem that all of now recognize. we'll have a good discussion today and i'm hopeful that we'll be able to make changes to this budget document as it goes to the

floor and as we begin to focus on how do we solve this problem for the american people. >> reporter: bottom line, we expect that the continuing resolution to keep the government up and running will get through at some point. everybody seems committed to doing that but the budget is where the real fight is on capitol hill, martha. martha: it works both ways, mike. democrats clearly do not like the paul ryan house republican budget proposal. so what is their approach? >> reporter: well they are saying essentially that paul ryan is too extreme harsh. they continue calling for new tax revenue which we see in the patty murray budget blueprint. on budgetary issues, president obama talking to supporters last night sounded upbeat. >> when it comes to issues of the budget we've made progress in making sure that those at the very top are paying a greater share of what is required to run a

government, fund base being research, move education forward. and so we've seen some progress. >> reporter: day three in a row, president obama coming to capitol hill today to meet with senate republicans and house democrats. democrats not liking so much some of the offers that he it making for a big deal and republicans want him to give up the idea of new taxes, martha. martha: boy, here we go. mike, thank you very much. bill: in meantime the 1st of april is the deadline for the senate to present a budget resolution but often times deadlines don't mean much in washington, do they now? today marks 1415 days since the senate passed a budget resolution. that goes back to april 29th of 2009, almost four years. and that was not even a real budget. back then, april 2009, it was just a guideline. martha: just a guideline. we wouldn't want to really dig in too deep here. meanwhile, let's go back to the question for who is really to blame for canceling the white house

tours. this issue is symbolic of the overall sequester drama and whether or not there are places we can really cut some spending in washington but this led to a very tense exchange yesterday during the white house believing between jay carney and abc news correspondent jonathan karl. watch this. >> secret service told us the course cost $74,000 a week. how much is it going to cost the president to travel later this week to illinois? >> president is president of the united states and he is elected to represent all of the people and he travels around the country appropriately. i don't have a figure on cost of presidential travel. it is, you know, obviously something as everybody president deals with because of security and staff, a significant undertaking. but, you know, the president has to travel around the country. he has to travel around the word. that is part of his job. >> how much does it cost for him to go play golf? >> john, again, you're trivializing an impact here. people will lose their jobs. 3/4 of million people will lose their job. martha: whoa. that went on, from there.

it's interesting, you know. we're hearing very tough questions and you might also suggest that tone is changing a little bit in terms of the questions that are being asked in that briefing room. but this white house tour thing, and clearly jay carney feels like it is not a big deal but it is, as i said before symbol leg of sort of larger question what we were told about the drama of this sequester and what it would matter and how much it would matter and very basic questions do you play golf and do these things that cost money or say as president of the united states, i will cancel that trip, not do this and that because we're in difficult situation. bill: logic if you're spending $3.5 trillion a year you can find a way to make cuts and amendments if you want. martha: 85 billion. bill: right now, senate committee taking up controversial gun control proposal. it is a federal ban on assault-style weapons he said and high-capacity ammunition magazines. that proposal faces strong opposition from republicans

and some moderate democrats. martha: in colorado, one of the strictest gun measures in the country is about to become law. yesterday the democrat-controlled house there passed a rule that limits the size of ammunition magazines to 15 rounds. today the legislation moves to governor john hickenlooper's desk. he is expected to sign that measure into law. bill: meantime we're watching the cpac meeting this is the annual conservative political action committee. it is underway in maryland. the first major gathering of conservatives since president obama's re-election in november. the newcomers are causing a buzz with a first look at the field for the white house in 2016, kid you not. here is steve centanni looking at that gaylord national resort. who will we hear from today, steve, good morning from washington? >> reporter: good morn, bill. conservatives hoping to strengthen their message in the wake of that november election launching a three-day meeting this morning. it begins with speeches by a number of high-profile

people. the event getting underway an hour ago outside d.c. as the gop tries to regroup and pave the way for victories in 2014 and 2016. on the agenda today, utah senator mike lee, senator rand paul of kentucky and former south carolina senator jim demint. one of the first speakers this morning was former florida congressman allen west who outlined a conservative manifesto. >> because conservatives believe that it is our moral duty to serve our fellow man, regardless of race, sex, affiliation or creed and when we serve, we believe that it is the state's duty to get out of the way. >> reporter: west said the day is at hand for the next generation of conservatives to step forward, bill. bill: how do you see this as a prelude to 2016 and that campaign, steve? >> reporter: it has all begun. for one thing, there will be a straw poll, 2016 straw poll to see who conservatives are favoring at this point in the early stage of the process. some of the top conned

tenders for the post in 2016 will speak at conference. former governor jeb bush, florida senator marco rubio and congressman paul ryan and louisiana governor bobby jindal. also notable names not on the speaking list of the those include new jersey governor chris christie who voiced the support for the president in the wake of hurricane sandy and virginia governor bob mcdonnell who raised taxes in his state. on the list of speakers is texas senator ted cruz who was asked by fox's greta van susteren what message gop needs to send to voters? >> message is republican need to get back to two words, growth and opportunity. this last election, republicans didn't win the argument. margaret thatcher famously said, first you win the argument, then you win the vote. >> reporter: that cpac conference runs through saturday. bill: got it, thank you, steve. more speeches coming up. steve centanni live from our bureau in washington.

martha: pope francis began his first full day as the leader of the catholic church. he visited a basilica dedicated to virgin mary. that in and of itself said to say something about this new pope the way he chose to begin that very first day. we're also told that he stopped by the hotel to pick up his luggage like any of us would do when you have a little change of plans in your life. according to news reports the new pope asked if he needed to pay the bill when he was there. later today pope francis will celebrate an inaugural mass in the sistine chapel. what a spectacular sight that will be. he may outline some of his priorities as pope in the homily. everybody will read the words closely to see if they figure out what this pope's priorities are. bill: over time you look back and remember where you were when. that was one of those moments yesterday. martha: absolutely spectacular. bill: the elevation of the former cardinal, jorge bergoglio marking many firsts for the catholic

church. the first pontiff a jesuit and focus on missionary work and spreading catholicism all over the world. he is the first to take the name francis. st. francis a of assisi dedicated his life to helping the poor and st. francis of xavier. we're looking for a clarification what he meant by taking that name. as a native of argentina pope francis the first non-european pope in 1200 years. this is a reach as we heard yesterday from --. martha: as he said they went to almost the end of the earth to find him and bring home to rome. pretty spectacular story. latin america is of course home to a huge number of the world's catholics. more than 425 million of the faithful live in that region. that is nearly 40% of the all catholics worldwide. 8 million catholics live in argentina -- 38 million. that is pope francis's home

country. his father is from italy. he has a lot of european roots. bill: became italian cousins as he said earlier. a rising star in the catholic church, we're not talking about the new pope, the american cardinal some are calling a rock star after the last three at the vatican. we'll talk about that. martha: we'll find out what he thought about yesterday. almost 17 trillion and ticking higher every second but what debt crisis? what the president is saying that has a lot of people talking today. bill: sure does. also republican lawmakers considering a new strategy in the quest for the answers that have been elusive after benghazi. what they say they are ready to do now. >> there are several people who were wounded in benghazi who were still out at walter reed. six months wounded at walter reed. you know they're very serious. we don't honor those people. we don't mention their names. like it is a dark hole and, i think we're now at a point now there is a cover-up. hey hun, remember you only need a few sheets. hmph!

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bill: so there are drastic

moves now to get the motor city back in gear. just hours from now michigan governor rick snyder expected to announce a emergency state takeover in the city of detroit. that puts a state appointed financial manager in charge of turning around the city's broken finances and boy, are they ever broken. detroit is the poorest major city in the u.s. with more than a third of the population below poverty. unemployment rate, eight teen.2%. national average is 7.7. they have issues in detroit. martha: a new search for the answers in the deadly terror attacks that left four americans dead in benghazi on that awful night of september 11th. republican lawmakers now want to issue subpoenas to the surviving victims of that attack. nobody has heard from them. as many as 30 people who were there that night were witnesses to exactly what happened. joined by dan henninger, deputy editor of "the wall street journal" editorial page, and byron york, chief political correspondent for

the "washington examiner". welcome to you both. what do you think about this move, dan? >> i think it is a very good move. i'm for it. you know, martha, a lot that goes on in washington that is truly just politics. i always thought this benghazi was not just politics. a united states ambassador was murdered, the first one since 1979, the most serious international event that could happen to the united states. and i think these congressman are completely within bound to try to pursue what happened in benghazi. if they have got 30 people, upwards of 30 people wounded there, that is an extraordinary development. i think they are entitled to find out from those individuals what exactly was going on that day and in the days preceding it. martha: you know, byron, we heard from leon panetta and hillary clinton how grateful they were actually they were able to get these people out safely that night. you know that is considered sort of one of the victories in a night other than that that went horribly wrong and we haven't heard from any of

these victims. also the families of the four who were killed have, you know, with the exception of one of the families, mr. wolf, they have largely been silent on this they know a lot. there is no doubt, byron. >> they do and this is total radio silence. i'll tell you here in washington there is a huge disconnect between democrats and republicans on this. talk to democrats, they say this is over. get over it. the republicans are politicizing this. remember hillary clinton in her exchange with ron johnson, the senator from wisconsin, said, you know what does it matter now? what difference does it make now? republicans feel they have never gotten the straight story on this. so they're using the leverage that they have and in the house they have a lot of leverage because they're in the majority. they can actually subpoena some of these people if it comes to that. the in the senate they're ma minority, not as much leverage. they have upcoming confirmation of debra jones nominated to replace chris stevens as ambassador to libya and republicans can hold it up to demand more information. martha: we saw some of that

expressed in the confirmation process for john brennan. lindsey gram wanted answers on benghazi before that confirmation. dan, this is another opportunity to sort of force the issue with holding this ambassador perhaps. >> issue is what did they know and what did they know it? this was not a spontaneous demonstration. the cia agents there, when they took the body of sean smith who had already been killed, state department aide, they drove through the streets of benghazi. they come under fire from ak-47s, mortars and hand grenades. that was not a spontaneous demonstration. that was a planned attack by al qaeda related elements in east libya. why they were not better prepared for that i think is a question that absolutely has to be answered by this administration. this is a very serious issue. martha: and you know, byron what we heard basically is, you know, get over it as you just pointed out. it happened and it was tragic and awful but it's over and the larger issue here, the whole question of the arab spring.

what is going on with al qaeda growth in this region and in the country? why weren't we prepared when they asked several times for more security? why was it not given to them? now that you have a new ambassador going over there that whole area is basically shut down to intelligence in in terms of intelligence and we're going to send a new person there and americans want to know this person will not be under threat from the various groups. >> the reason that the administration gives for not letting any members of congress talk to these survivors that the investigation is still going on but we know, nobody is in custody. nobody has been charged with this. and we know it took extraordinarily long time for the fbi to get over to benghazi to begin gathering information. so republicans are suspicious about this investigation. what is going on? how aggressive is it and where is it leading? they're getting nothing from the administration on that. martha: i think that, you know, it appears there is the hope the longer it goes on eventually it will be forgotten but these

congressman and senators clearly don't want that to happen. we'll see how they do. byron york, thank you very much. dan henninger, many thanks to you as well. bill: he is a pope of many firsts. first from the americas. first from the jesuit order and the first reaction from many of you coming up here next. martha: and a bizarre sight in the night sky. look at that. if that doesn't look like a ufo, i don't know what does, right? it flew over and some locals were thinking maybe that one of those unidentified flying objects. ♪ . everyone's retirement dream is different;

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martha: there is trouble for a third grade teacher. she is accused giving her students a lie-detector test african did i was stolen during a class party. the teacher downloaded a lie detector app on her phone and made every student take it to find out who took the candy. she said it was all fun and one of the kid's ideas. here is some of it. >> she should call the parents and let them know what was going on before she done it but she didn't do that. that is something that belongs at jail. they're not here at jail. they're at a school. they're here to be educated and considered to be criminals taking a lie-detector test about candy. martha: the school administrators are not commenting on this. they say it is personnel issue. someone stole the candy and she will find out who it is. there is an app for everything. bill: i would have taken that test. martha: i wonder if they caught the kid? bill: the first pope from latin america.

new reaction from some of the people who know him best. >> he is a very simple man. just very close to the people. so that is how i remember him. >> i think for the spanish-speaking and the hispanic, latino people, catholic people of the united states, this is going to be received with great, great applause and joy. bill: we have only seen part of the reaction so far. steve harrigan is live in our miami bureau, only blocks from the little argentina neighborhood down there. what is the reaction, steve? good morning. >> reporter: good morning, bill. little argentina a mile away from where i'm standing. more than 100,000 people born in argentina live in miami beach, more than any other u.s. city. the reaction in cafes, in restaurants is really the good news is spreading fast. >> this guy's very humble. he really cares about the people and he is not as progressive as some of the other candidates were so it

is fascinating. this is great for latin america. >> we're very proud and he seems to be a very humble and good man. so, doing a good job. >> reporter: that's what people really kept telling us over and over again. they're very proud he is argentinian, but even more so they are happy he is a humble man, bill. bill: i imagine the reaction in argentina had to be absolutely stunning. a shocking announcement there. what are you hearing? >> reporter: it was a really mix, bill in buenos aires, a mix of joy and surprise as well because this pop was really not considered one of the front-runners. there was a mass at a cathedral that really overflowed out in the streets where there was celebration, crying and a lot of --. >> translator: i am very excited. i can't put it into words. so happy and very excited for argentina. it is so emotional i tell you. i heard a little while ago the bells and car horns, well, i said we have a pope

it never occurred to me that it was bergoglio because he wasn't really a candidate. i feel so happy. >> reporter: that celebration not limited to just argentina but really spreading across latin america. in mexico, in brazil, even in communist cuba they rang the church bells in celebration of the first latin american pope. bill: for good reason. thank you, steve harrigan on that story in miami, florida. martha: a lot of happy faces, right. bill: the first trip he makes to buenos aires, can you imagine the turnout. martha: like pope john paul ii went to poland, a beautiful and great moment. we are awaiting a another big meeting that is about to happen on capitol hill about our nearly 17 droll trillion debt. -- $17 trillion debt. president obama meets with senate republicans today after meeting with house republicans yesterday. we'll speak with a congressman who was at that meeting and we'll find out what it was really like, coming up next.

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working on these problems, and they say most of their systems are functioning normally. the coast guard is aware of the situation, but they don't think their help is required at the moment. boy, another not great pr for carnival. so we'll see how that one goes. that's what they tell me. bill: there is new reaction to president obama's meeting with house republicans, his first in nearly two years. the meeting part of a push to reach a deal on the wuj. seems both sides are still far apart on this. congressman randy forbes, the republican from virginia, was inside that meeting yesterday. sir, good morning to you. thank you for your time. >> good morning, bill. bill: take us inside this room yesterday. who was there, first of all? how many? >> well, we had almost the entire republican conference. i don't know of anybody that wasn't there. it was a full room x the president was in there. he was received with a great deal of respect, and we continually tell him that he's welcome anytime, and we're glad to have a dialogue with him. bill: all right. so a lot of people in that room. the turnout was impressive.

how did the meeting start? did he begin with his ideas? >> he had -- no, he had a very short opening statement, and he went right into questions. but the questions i think the people had been preselected, so i think he had a little pit of a tipoff -- little bit of a tipoff to what the questions were going to be, but it was still a good dialogue. bill: did you get a chance to ask him a question? >> i did not. i would have liked to. we had some good questions. the interesting thing always with the president is the president's words kind of evolve, so it's really difficult to find out what he really means on certain issues, but it's always good to have that dialogue. bill: okay, just one more question about this. >> sure. bill: was your question asked toward him, or would you have taken him in a direction that was not taken yesterday? >> i would have asked him a different question. i think there was some excellent questions asked about the budget. i would have asked him some questions about national defense since i chair the subcommittee. and, you know, the president talked about how catastrophic

sequestration was going to be, but i would have asked him about the fact that he cut 19 times the amount of money sequestration will cut out this year, he had already cut out of national defense, and i would have asked him questions about that. bill: john boehner said it was a good meeting. would you consider it a good meeting? >> i think anytime, bill, that you have a dialogue it's a good meetings. i think we would like for the president perhaps to give us a little more detail and really stick to some of the hinges that he -- things that he says, but i think dialogue is a good thing, and i think that's what the american people want to see. bill: okay. he also wrote a piece in "the washington post," speaker boehner. he says he's heard the arguments many times, this is his words now: despite packing 400 -- what is it now, $650 billion worth of tax hikes in january they, meaning democrats, would rather raise taxes yet again and tinker around the edges on entitlements if at all while spending on these and many other federal programs continues on autopilot.

the other thing he said is that i've heard the arguments before, but my colleagues have not. are you one of those colleagues who were hearing his arguments for the first time? >> no. i think, bill, most of us have heard those arguments over and over again. i think one of the things that we'd like to see is the president to make some firm commitments and stick to them. i mean, just for the president to come out and say that he believes that we should balance the budget would be a great thing. for the president to come out and be consistent, i mean, he came in there, for example, bill, and told us that he recognized that we were all good people, we were good neighbors, we loved our country, we wanted to serve our constituent, but then he goes out and has a press conference where he says the only thing that unites republicans is their desire to protect the top 1% of the wealthy people in the country. and then i think one of the things that was really humorous and kind of got maybe the most pushback was when we talked about the closing of the white house with which we thought was a bad decision, and he blamed it on the secret service. the secret service that works for him and under his control.

bill: he said that? what were his words? >> oh, no, he said -- we told him that, you know, we thought it was really bad to have the white house closed to the american people, that that was a bad signal, a bad sign, we shouldn't do it. the president literally said that wasn't his decision, that was the secret service's decision. and you could hear laughter kind of in the room because everybody in there knows the secret service, one, works for the president, but secondly, can you imagine the secret service doing anything at the white house that the president didn't approve of? bill: you're saying that comment was gloated by laughter -- agreemented by laughter? >> you could tell the room didn't agree. bill: did he mention in that abc interview that the debt is not the real issue facing the? >> he definitely said that he didn't feel that the debt could, that the budget could be balanced, that we didn't need to address that right now as a top

priority. and one of the questions we tried to get him to say, bill, was exactly whether or not he thought balancing the budget was a proper goal. and if he didn't agree with a ten-year plan to do that, how many years did he think we should have to balance the budget -- bill: and the answer? >> he wouldn't address that. bill: no or years stated? >> that's right. he didn't say anything about that. bill: fascinating insight. randy forbes, thank you for your insight. we're going to get reaction from the white house as it continues on the senate side today. randy forbes from virginia on the hill. ♪ martha: well, there were some bright lights in the skies over florida hours before dawn, strange aircraft whipping through the treetops and buzzing houses. this is file video, because actually nobody caught a picture of this whole thing while it was actually happening, but try to imagine. folks say they were roused out of bed and wondered could it be visitors from another planet, and who would not wonder that, right? tear reck ma leak is the

managing editor of space.com. let's set the scene. ocala, florida, there's a lot of air force bases, naval bases in the general florida area. both air force and navy were contacted, they said, no, we were not performing any drills at that time. but several people clearly said they saw something in the sky with a group of helicopters flying around it. >> that's right. martha: what do you think? >> that's right. it did seem something like a military exercise you would expect. we actually heard another report this morning, um, that there actually may have been a joint exercise or at least the staging for one, preparations for one. so what these folks may have seen are those helicopters getting ready for the exercise, not the actual exercise itself. but they're very low to the ground, 150 feet they were reporting, pretty loud and scary. martha: yeah. i mean, it's surprising that, you know, living in that area they thought th something different, something they had not experienced before,

right? obviously, they've seen military training exercises, but they were very alarmed by this, and they thought that it could be a ufo. could that be the case? >> well, you know, lights in the sky are always going to attract attention, even the planet venus or brights, you know, surprise people because they're just not used to seeing it. in fact, the navy has an unmanned drone that looks exactly like a ufo -- martha: well, that was one of my thoughts. you know, we've had so much talk about drones lately, perhaps it was something along those lines, do you think? >> we heard today they're getting ready with chinooks and blackhawks to make the joint exercise and that may have been seen or a grouping of those. they're very large, very loud craft, and that could be kind of what these people are -- martha: so you think you've debunked the mystery? that's what it is? >> it's the most like scenario. martha: it makes sense to me, although we do like to entertain notions of ufos, right? >> you can't rule it out.

martha: there may be something out there. thank you very much. >> i choose to believe the floridians. martha: ufo. bill: is that okay? martha: and i believe in the loch ness monster, but that's okay. bill: they're calling him the rock star of the roman catholic church. , and he is not the pope. how the american cardinal from new york can use his new fame when he gets back home. martha: plus comments about working moms caused some controversy this week, and now a new poll showing whether or not moms agree with her. ♪ 9 to 5 what a way to make a living, it's less taking and more giving. ♪ want to move ahead

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with the launch of the country's largest petrochemical operation. ♪ when emerson takes up the challenge, "it's never been done before" simply bemes consider it solved. emerson. ♪ bill: so the big apple's getting bigg: major michael bloomberg announcing that new york city's population has reached an all-time high. estimated population more than

8,300,000, a surge of more than 160,000 in the last two years alone. that's nearly as many people as the city gained in the entire preceding ten years. new york's growing. they're coming from all over the world too. martha: in our lifetime we've seen it overpopulated and then declining for many years, and then you watch the city sort of rebuild under rudy giuliani, really, was the beginning of that resurgence, and now a lot of people moving up to the production to areas you might have thought they wouldn't want to live in, but they said there's a lot of rejuvenation. bill: the immigrants come from all over this planet to try and make their life better, and they try to do it here in new york city to improve the lives of of themselves and the people around them. martha: we love the big apple. come on over, exactly. speaking of new york, one american cardinal who took part in the conclave to select a new pope also saw a rise in his stature over the course of this week. cardinal timothy dolan, the archbishop of new york -- that

is the new pope that you see pictured there -- became extremely popular throughout this process and is taking on somewhat of a rock star quality in the catholic church. after the conclave he spoke about the new pope in the informal style for which he is known and loved. >> where he comes from is gravy, and we got a lot of good gravy with a man coming now from latin america. you talk about a booster shot to the church in the americas, this is going to be a real blessing. martha: saying that he's such a good man, this pope, and where he's from is just sort of icing on the cake. he called it gravy. father jonathan morris joins me now, fox news contributor and a roman catholic priest who lived at the vatican for close to a decade, so he knows all of this very well. good morning, father. good to have you with us today. >> good morning, martha. gravy, icing on the cake. [laughter] martha: exactly. cardinal dolan was in there, and he spoke about it a little bit this morning on another network. talk to me a little bit about

what he has said happened inside the sistine chapel at the moment that they started to realize that they were about to select a pope. >> sure. he'll also speak to the fox news channel later on today. but what he said was that when they hit 77 which is the two-thirds plus one majority necessary among the 115 cardinals, the place erupted in applause. now, some people are saying, well, that's supposed to be totally secret. but i think what cardinal dolan has done is recognize that the secret is about substance, who voted for whom and the discussions that they had. but it's important for the people of god, for the church to recognize that a very spiritual thing happened and a very human way. these cardinals who are voting for someone were so excited that they had found the man they believed that good wanted. martha: yeah. and he said that there was not a dry eye in the house in the sistine chapel, and i agree with you. you know, he's simply sort of revealing that really special

moment. and i think, you know, sharing that as cardinal dolan is, you know, often does, it opens that door to a certain extent in terms of the humanity of this process. and that's what i think people have appreciated so much about learning, learning about him, father jonathan, just sort of how real he is. how can he use what has happened in rome to sort of inspire catholics here at home when he gets back? >> well, catholics and non-catholics, martha, i believe -- because what we did hear was the leader of a 1.2 billion-member church, yes, but also elect somebody who is more a voice for the world. there are so many common values among muslims, among jews and even among nonbelievers that the papacy stands to protect. finish and cardinal dolan is now going to go back to new york, and he's going to have tough decisions. he's going to have to deal with real problems, you know? this is almost like the honeymoon. and honeymoons are a very good thing because it's something

worthy to a marriage, it's an election, it's something worthy to celebrate. but at the same time now there are people who would like to get back to church but feel disenchanced. -- disenchanted. there are people who want convincing reasons for believing, and yet they don't have them. cardinal dolan's going to go back to new york, a very secular place in certain ways but also a place full of faith. and he's going to have a platform to say come back. not asen imp beings -- as an imposition but as an invitation. martha: we showed earlier the numbers of catholics around the world, but one of the issues that this pope will hopefully address and cardinal dolan as well is that a lot of those people have, they've drifted away, you know? they may call themselves catholics, but they're not attending mass. i mean, that's happening in huge numbers, is it not? >> it is, martha. and i think cardinal dolan as well as the other cardinals have recognized that in part that's because of mismanagement, dysfunction or even what we

could call clerical careerism. somehow a great or than thou attitude or we don't need to change. i don't mean in terms of doctrine, but in terms of form, in terms of presentation. just pause we've been around for so long. the cardinals are going to go back, and they're going to be imitating this man, a jesuit, who took francis, the name of st. francis of assisi, the humble man, the deacon, in order to say the best reform has to do with the heart, and it's going back and being humble. remember, martha, i'm sure you saw the images when he went down like this -- martha: yes. >> and he said before giving a blessing to all of you in st. peter's square, i ask you to pray over me. if we have that attitude in the catholic church and in the protestant churches and the nonchristian church, my gosh, america and the world will be a better place. martha: yeah. that was such a spectacular moment. such a small gesture that was so huge when he asked all of those

people to be silent. you could hear a pin drop out there, and to pray for him. it was really, really something, and you were able to witness it there. father jonathan, we'll see you when you get back here. thank you sop. >> we'll be back soon. bill: so jenna lee is standing by, "happening now" rolls our way in 11 minutes, what you working on? jenna: the head of the tsa is ready to defend his decision to allow small knives on airplanes. we'll tell you about that. also, startling new census numbers showing more than one in three u.s. counties are basically disappearing. what does that mean for your local economy and the future of the country? plus, today marks 40 years since senator john mccain was released from captivity in vietnam. senator mccain, held prisoner, tortured, denied medical treatment for more than five years and the now-infamous hanoi hilton. today the senator will join us live. his reflections 40 years later and how the past provides him

and us some inspiration in a challenging time if politics and otherwise. all this coming up on "happening now." bill: looking forward to that conversation with senator mccain, jenna. you know, that's -- that prison is now an open of of air market. i have seen it. jenna: unbelievable. bill: yeah. and his reflections on it, too, they're quite striking. thanks, looking forward to that. jenna: thanks, bill. bill: getting closer and closer to $17 trillion in debt, america. why now some say president obama's concern about that is just a pr stunt. is that the case? oh this is soft. this is so so soft. hey hun, remember you only need a few sheets. hmph! [ female announcer ] charmin ultra soft is so soft you'll have to remind your family they can use less. ♪ charmin ultra soft is made with extra cushions that are soft and more absorbent. plus you can use four times less. hope you saved some for me. mhmm! you and the kids. we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft.

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♪ bill: nearly $17 trillion in debt, and president obama said this to abc news. quote: we don't have an immediate crisis in terms of debt. in fact, for the next ten years

it's going to be in a sustainable place. the question is, can we do it smarter, can we do it better? stephen hayes, senior writer for the weekly standard, fox news contributor with me now. good morning to you, steve. >> morning, bill. bill: you're writing about this today as a pr stunt. what are you talking about? >> well, look, i think we know two things, right? we know that the president and his campaign team want to run against republicans as villains, to make them out as extremists, as resistors to the president's agenda. number two, we know that the president hasn't seemed concerned about debt and deficits. that was true back in the fall when he told david letterman that he didn't think the debt was a short-term problem, it's true as confirmed in the abc quote that you just read. and so the question is, if the president is doing all this outreach, to what end? why is he suddenly treating the debt like it's an urgent issue, and doesn't his outreach upset his campaign strategy or his second term agenda of demonizing

republicans? bill: well, the argument you make in your piece is that there will be no grand par gain. that was the $4 trillion deal that was on the table going back two years ago. right. bill: what he also said in that abc interview was i'm saying to them, meaning republicans, i'm prepared to do some tough stuff. neither side's going to get 100%. i read that as though he's willing to give on entitlements. do you feel the samesome. >> well, we'll see. it's one thing to say that in private and it's one thing to float possibilities and theoretical discussions in the abstract. it's quite another for the president of the united states to come out and give a speech in which he lays out detail by detail as republicans have done in their budget for the past three years what exactly he wants to do. again, i am very skeptical that he's likely to do that. we haven't seen him interested in doing that to this point, i don't see any reason why he would change because i think it makes the likelihood of democrats recapturing congress

in 2014 that much less. will: just 15 seconds. go back to this quote here. for the next ten years, it's going to be in a sustainable place, the debt. ten years, w be? 20 trillion? 25 trillion? >> yeah. we'll see in his new budget. but certainly the senate democrats' proposed budget doesn't do much about the debt at all. bill: well, steven hayes, we'll talk again this week. martha: well, the head of the tsa is explaining to congress why he's okay with allowing those small knifes to come back onto our planes in this country. we're going to also get word on yet another security blunder. we'll be right back. ♪

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