stops right here because we are definitely looking out for you. >> sean: welcome to the special edition of "hannity." this is the second part of our boon town series where we have been looking at the business of washington, d.c. and how it's making a lot of people very rich all with your money. we've seen the nation's capitol and the surrounding suburbs have become an american boom town with lobbyists and all those connected with politics making the region almost immediately to our country's financial woes. we head out to the business of government. >> washington, d.c., america's new boom town. tonight we're going to find out how this city has become so

fabulously wealthy, the wealthiest in the united states today. when we think of the federal government, we think about programs, the most well-known perhaps is the food stamp program. how to pay for america's welfare programs is a hot topic in washington. and food stamps are at the center of that debate. the left see these programs as pillars of a caring nation, a sign of our commitment to the pour. it injects a lot of cash into our economy. >> it pays salaries for grocery clerks, truckers, usda estimates 16 cents go right back to the farmer. food stamps are a good investment into our economy, for every dollar that you put into food stamps, you get a 1.71 back into the economy! >> conservatives, on the other hand, see these programs out of control, wasteful, riddled with abuse. and they harm economic growth. >> why don't we provide

everybody's clothes, shoes? when you take money from the economy or borrow it as we're doing today to provide food stamps for somebody, you don't get a net gain to the economy. >> the food stamp program is one of a huge number of antipoverty programs offered we the federal government. the current tally, 126. the current cost over a trillion dollars a year. but what if washington's most vested interest in the country's biggest corporations are profiting from the explosive growth of these programs designed for the poor? welfare in america is supposed to be a safety net for those in need. but instead, it's become an insider's game of power and profit. tonight you're going to learn that food stamps are not just a program. it's an industry. it begins here at the u.s. department of agriculture. the tentacles of this industry

extend to wall street and madison avenue and include some of the largest corporations in america. it's an industry that has lobbyist, advertisers, and promotions and an increasing market share. it started as a way to get farm fresh produce onto the tables of the hungry and give a boost to struggling farmers along the way. but the program has grown enormously. big corporations and their lobbyists spend millions to try to get their hands on a piece of this $75 billion pie. food stamps have become big business in america. they were originally intended for things like cheese, eggs, meat and vegetables. but thanks to the aggressive lobbying of large corporations, they can be used for everything from soft drinks to in some cases, fast food. chains like pizza hot and taco bell fought for a part of the

money. at the same time, corporations like coca-cola and kraft foods successfully lobbied against bills that would block soda and junk food from being food stamp eligible. with the program experiencing explosive growth, it shows no signs of slowing down because the politicians argue that the bigger the program gets, the better it is for america. >> if you want to see a job, the quickest way to too it is to -- to do it is to provide more funding for food stamps. nothing creates jobs faster than the injecting demand into the economy and that demand is created when people use the food stamps. >> during the sequester debate, food stamps were deemed off limits for any cuts. in fact, the program is undergoing explosive growth. through the lens of dc, a bigger program is good for america. and it's great for boom town. >> sean: joining us, peter and steve of the government

accountability, and karen is back, vice president of public affairs for the american beverage association. good to see you. >> thank you. >> sean: let's go to -- nothing creates jobs faster than food stamps. nancy pelosi's comments. and senator gillibrand, 16 cents goes back to the farmers, and you get 1.71 back into the economy for every dollar entwhistle and. >> that's the traditional argument, that you spend government money and somehow it multiplies. there is no economic evidence of that. what we're talking about here is a program that is a nutrition program. that's what was spine designed to do, to provide supplemental nutrition to people having a hard time make ends meet. as you saw in the clip, you see a lot of politicians who are trying to turn this into some kind of economic program or jobs program. that's not what this is about. it's about meeting the basic nutritional needs of people. >> sean: what peter is saying, to use the term food stamps, big business, an industry goes from wall street to madison avenue. $75 billion he's talking about. you disagree with that, 'cause

you're generally conservative. but? >> here is where we don't see eye to eye on this, which is this notion that the food companies and i represent the nonalcoholic beverage industry, coke, dr. pepper. >> sean: that's a shame. i'm sorry. nonalcoholic. >> i know, i know. >> sean: my sense of humor. go. >> you know, this notion that they are spending millions of dollars lobbying in order to get their hands on this money, which is just simply not the case because the usda has never had a list of excluded foods. they've never had a list of good foods versus bad foods, healthy foods versus unhealthy foods. that's the way we sho it. as a conservative, you do not want the federal government getting in the business of saying you're on the good list. you're on the bad list. that's a slippery slope to go down. >> karen, with all due respect, the program was set up initially to provide basic nutritional

needs. so it was cheese and it was meat -- >> in the 30s, right. >> it was originally set up. what you had is the expansion of it. so now you have snack foods and soft drinks -- >> you had that for decades. you had that -- in the '60s they passed the stamp act in 1964. >> right. how did that act get implemented? it didn't get implemented because you had food stamp recipients coming to washington asking for it. it happened because industries saw and recognized that government money puts money on the table and they were looking to make that money. i have no problem -- >> actually, that's not entirely accurate either because if you look at the congressional record in 1977, congress -- there has been a lot of debate. how do you insure that your taxpayer dollars are going toward only -- i think what commonly would be referred to as healthy foods, right? 1977, congress said listen, trying to sort through the good

versus the bad is a cure worse than -- >> that's not what we're talking about. >> we're not talking about sorting between good and bad. >> you would have to sort. you have over 300,000 food products that government bureaucrats will have to go through. >> you make this argument of like a libertarian argument that's about freedom. this is a $75 billion industry that's metastasizing. tough measures have to be taken. this is a assistance program that's taxpayer funded. >> yes. >> the beverage industry, the soda industry gets $4 billion of that 75 today. at 20% margin, that's a $1 billion cash benefit to the soda industry underwritten by people making $50,000 a year. that's just not in an age of austerity, that cannot go on. >> the answer is go to the usda and say we would like you to expand the size and scope of your bureaucracy -- >> no, not at all. >> that's what the usda says they'll have to do if you're

going to start picking and choosing, based on -- i don't know how you define nutritional foods. there are 15,000, for instance, 15,000 savory snacks with bar codes. you're going to sort through 15,000 -- >> no. but karen, the bottom line is this is not a lifestyle program. this is a nutrition assistance program. there are all kinds of limitations -- >> how should the federal government go about determining if your private company is on the good list or the bad list? -- >> right now in the state of new york, there is a debate going on because it was found out welfare money has been used at strip clubs to buy cigarettes, all sorts of things. >> that's waste, fraud and abuse. >> no, it's not, 'cause it's legal. what's happening is the same argument -- >> you can't put food and

beverage -- >> what i'm saying is this, that there is a debate going on right now in albany, new york, about restricting that and the argument that those defendants are making is that we should let them choose. >> that is not our argument. >> sean: hang on. the biggest problem we have are the shear numbers. and steve touched on this a little bit. we now have 50 million americans on food stamps. it's doubled under obama. and we have 14 million americans on disability. that's one in five americans getting almost their life sus tennance from the government. >> 8% are senior citizens. >> sean: thank you. peter and steve, we're going to stay with us. and coming up, we're going to show you how helping the poor used to be done in america. plus our studio audience business experts, commentators, they will join this discussion, straight ahead

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headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron. >> sean: welcome back to the special edition of "hannity," boom town 2 on the business of food stamps. we continue with peter shah rightser. -- schweitzer. >> the american people are the most generous in the world when it comes to helping people in need, whether it's community groups, churches, or ministries like the apostles across the street here in new york. all of them committed to helping those that are in need.

>> we're an emergency feeding program that feeds people in need. we serve over 1200 meals. we've been doing that for 30 years. >> the government always had a role to play as well. during the americans colonial period, you had the british poor. in the 1930, the new deal added social programs. >> the president signs the social security bill, old age pensions, unemployment insurance. >> you've had an administration which instead of rolling its thumbs, rolled up its sleeves. >> of course, the biggest jump came in the 1960 when is lyndon b. johnson launched the war on poverty. >> this administration today here and now declares unconditional war on poverty in america. [ applause ] >> the problem is the more our poverty was fought and poverty won. the united states since the 1960s has spent $15 trillion, that's trillion with a t -- on

antipoverty programs. that's about the same size as the u.s. national debt. while the poverty rate in the 1960s was around 15%, it remains stubbornly there to this day. so if these programs have not helped people that are in need, who has benefited? large corporations and this town, boom town, have profited enormously from the expansion of these programs. since 2008, federal government spending on food stamps has doubled. that's your taxpayer dollars. as the rolls increased, the profits in some of of america's largest corporations have increased as well. >> sean: we continue with peter schweitzer and steve. $15 trillion. now we have more poverty than ever before. 50 million americans on food stamps. 14 million americans disabled. all on government handout.

we can be the most generous country on earth, but when one in five americans needs this assistance, what do you do? >> yeah. that's the challenge. part of it obviously is the economy has not been good. you can't blame people for that. but the challenge is that if you look throughout the period of the last 40 years, since the 1960s, it's pretty much remained constant. it's gone up and down a little bit. the point is you have this underclass in america that in a sense has become dependent. but i think the larger issue is these programs that were designed to sort of help them are not really designed to help them. >> sean: is that the way the politicians want it? >> i think that's absolutely the way it is. if you look right now at how these programs are crafted, you have congress making its rules and laws. you have the state legislators on the state level. certainly the president administration, u.s. department of agriculture is involved. but you also have lobbyists, which are look out for the interests of their companies and that's the way -- >> sean: how is big business

making money off all of this? in other words, the products they're selling that people are buying, it's not just soda but meat and dairy. >> this is the reality. the food stamp program injects $75 billion into the economy. if i'm a businessman and i don't blame businesses for doing this -- they're look at this and saying, you know what -- >> sean: that's a big customer. >> that's exactly right. there is a big customer. why can't they spend some of that on the stuff i'm producing? i don't fault the businesses in that. the problem, sean, under this system, nobody is representing the taxpayers. >> sean: but it's deeper than that. i'll throw this to steve. there was a study that came out over the weekend, last weekend where new york has the highest taxes and the least amount of freedom. so in the name of security, people are giving up all of the freedoms that we have come to enjoy. >> cal was second. >> sean: shouldn't surprise us. >> i think they're a direct correlation. here is what's happened and you can see it in california and new york. you have convenience stores, then you have the fast food, then you have pizza home

delivery. at every aspect of these programs, another group wants to join in and get -- grow the program, make it more available, and garner more profits from it. the way the ebt card, it started out with stamps. >> sean: should people have to be required to work for that food? >> i think -- >> sean: is that the answer? >> certainly over a long period of time. we can all understand -- >> sean: shoulder. what's short-term? >> i would say six months. it's also a question of, nobody is going to fault a program that is making sure that people and children have enough food to eat. the question is, these -- >> sean: we're not talking about the kids. honestly, that's a different question. >> that's right. >> before the strict work requirements have to come is that people should focus on at every level of distribution, production, how this goes, are we using vendors, working with government that are being effective and efficient and not trying to grow businesses that have high margins. >> sean: stay at that right there.

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>> sean: welcome back to the special edition of "hannity" called boom town. first, when you think about who benefits from food stamps, major global companies are not really what comes to mind, but you may be surprised. >> we're here in park avenue, new york city, the center, the heart of american corporate power. but the story of boom town brings us here because this is also home to some of the biggest players in what we call the food stamp industry. you see, the food stamp industry started back in the 1960s when they literally provided stamps for people that had needs. orange stamps for food and basic household needs and blue stamps that were given for commodities. that all changed in 2002 when

they decided to create the ebt card, the electronic benefits transfer card. how are these programs administered? they're administered by three companies, two of which are located right here in new york city. one of them is jpmorgan, which has contracts with 26 states and u.s. territories to administer the program and across the street is xerox, which also manages this program. a lot of people recognize and remember that in 2008, jpmorgan was the beneficiary of a bailout because of the wall street prices. but a lot of people don't realize that they also made a lot of money beginning in 2009 because with the stimulus, they expanded and loosened the requirements for food stamps. if you look at a company like jpmorgan, it's very clear that this is a profitable division for this company. in fact, chris patton, an executive jpmorgan, recently explained how valuable it is. >> how significant a part of the bottom line comes from your

program? >> i mean, this business is a very important business to jpmorgan. it's an important business in terms of its size and scale. we are the largest processor of food stamps in the country, so we've seen huge increase in volume over the past year or two. >> since 2008, federal government spending on food stamps has doubled. as food stamp rolls expand, so do corporate profits. you might be surprised to learn that a large investment bank like jpmorgan is not only lobbying institutions like the senate banking committee, but also the house and senate agriculture committees as well. why would an investment bank like jpmorgan do that? because those are the institutions that have oversite of the food stamp program. over the course of the years, with that lobbying, jpmorgan has loosened eligibility requirements and expanded opportunities for people to become involved in the food

stamp program. that may be why even as the unemployment rate drops, the amount of people on food stamps continues to go up. >> it's doubled in the last four years. it's gone up fourfold since 2001. we've not had anything like that increasing the amount of unemployment that would justify such a number. >> so there is a lot of incentive for growing the program. when companies like jpmorgan make money off of every person who signs up for benefits, depending on the state, for administering the program, jpmorgan makes as much as 2.20 per person, per month, for each ebt participant. indeed, large corporations like jpmorgan, have shaped the program dramatically and turned it into the industry that it is today.

>> sean: we continue with peter schweitzer and steve bannen. why the dramatic increase? why are we seeing there is no reduction, the numbers are quadrupling in a very short period of time. why? >> couple of things. one, i think the underlying weakness of the economy, but two, in 2009, they really loosened eligibility requirements to get on food stamps and they're creating categorical eligibility, which means if you sign up for one social welfare program, you automatically are now signed up with the others. you don't have to do it. i think that's a lot of it. >> sean: let's go to the jpmorgan side of it. jpmorgan, they put together the ebt cards. they got a bailout. you're not suggesting there is a connection of any type? >> no, not at all. and we're not saying that jpmorgan is doing anything fraudulent. >> sean: they're making money. >> exactly. but here is the challenge. the challenge in this program, sean, is that they are incentivized to see the number of people getting ebt cards increased. >> sean: do they have an influence? >> they don't burks it's very

clear in the relationship with these government agencies that they don't want to have anything to do with doing any sort of antifraud provisions on these cards. very basic things that they do on credit cards that if we did here would break down and destroy a lot of the black market. >> because it's like a debit card, they have the inis that card to run the program. they're incentivized to have as many transactions as possible. >> sean: why are you laughing? our studio audience is here. coming up next what, does the mexican embassy have to do with all of this? we'll tell when you we come back. plus we'll see how easy it is to cheat the system. that and much more straight ahead ♪

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>> sean: welcome back to the special edition of "hannity." just like everybody else that involves billions of dollars, there are people trying to cheat the system. the government says the level of fraud is very low, but peter set out to find out how easies to for your hard earned tax dollars to get used for pretty much anything but food. >> the federal government spending tens of billions of dollars every year of your taxpayer money on the food stamp program, you would think they take the issue of fraud seriously. sometimes they do. this mini mart with the yellow awning was recently shut down because of massive food stamp fraud. what was going on? in this store, they only had items for sale for up to $12 apiece. they were literally $400 transactions taking place. >> he take like $100 and gives us $79 back. cash. >> the official answer is that incidents of food stamp fraud are very rare. >> they have dropped to an all-time low record of less than 1%. is that right?

>> correct, sir. >> yet in reality, there is really no way to know the true extent of the problem. across the united states, there is only around 100 employees at the u.s. department of agriculture that are responsible for monitoring more than 200,000 businesses that accept ebt cards every year. and of those 200,000 shops that accept ebt cards, only 15,000 every year, less than 10%, are actually reviewed by usda officials. so there is clearly not much an effort being done. if you think it's just a problem in a place like brooklyn, new york, you'd be wrong. a state like minnesota, for example, ranks fourth in the country when it comes to food stamp fraud. in a state like wisconsin, they have widespread problems with people repeatedly reporting that their ebt cards are stolen. how does food stamp fraud actually work? it's really quite simple. let's say, for example, that i have an ebt card worth $250.

but i don't need food. i don't want food. i'd rather have cold hard cash. what i do is simply advertise somewhere, maybe on social media, that it's for sale and for $250 ebt card, i'll take $150 cash. that's how the transaction takes place and it's widespread in underground markets throughout the united states. if you want to see a little bit how it works, go on twitter at hash tag ebt and you'll see some of these exchanges actually taking place. new creative ways to game the system are constantly popping up. >> you go to a restaurant or bar and the restaurant or bar would go to a grocery store and buy $200 worth of groceries and then they would give the recipient half, 75% of something off of the ebt card. >> undercover investigators in florida were stunned to find just how easy it was to find

stores committing fraud. >> we visited only 30 stores and out of these 30 that we visited, two out of three were willing to work with us on these illegal transactions. in just a few weeks, our you undercover operatives acquired more than $10,000 in cash. on its face that may not seem like a lot, but you have to consider that we hit just a few stores, a few times, over a few weeks. at this $10,000 in cash should have translated in $20,000 worth of food products. >> they were able to use the cards for cigarettes, beer, and even con condoms. >> what's up? let me get a 12 pack in a coo cost. >> over and over again, cashiers and owners accepted these ebt cards and rang up through false transactions, indicating that they were selling food products. >> man, thank you very much. >> many times, just had their

card swipes for a fistful of cash. >> the stores provided cash to our agents and then kept a cut of that cash for themselves. >> thank you. >> usda may not be devoting huge resources to fraud prevention, but they are aggressively marketing the program to increase participation. >> there are a few people who get to decide what will happen in our world. you have been invited to join them. >> madison avenue, new york. this is where corporate america comes when they're looking to hire advertising firms to help them sell their products and services. the federal government is actually not all that different, particularly when it comes to the food stamp industry. you see, the u.s. department of agriculture has all sorts of promotional and advertising techniques that it uses to try to expand the number of people that are accepting food stamps. here is the reality, in new york over the last decade, food stamp enrollment has doubled.

nationwide, it's doubled only over the last four years. what are the techniques they use? they offer things like tool kits to have creative ways to have people sign up. they are thrown parties to show the benefits of joining the food stamp program. and there are even reports that foreign embassies like the mexican embassy are advertising and promoting and encouraging the use of food stamps in the united states. as any advertising firm will tell you, if you do a good job, you're going to create demand for the product that wasn't there. that's what has happened with the food stamp industry america. they're doing it with your money. it's costing us money. and the reality is the biggest challenge that they have to overcome is this stigma that's associated with food stamp use. recently jefferson, north carolina received a gold star from the federal government because they increased food stamp use by 10%. >> our government is running food stamp promotions at foreign embassies. one worker was given an award

for overcoming mountain pride and getting more people to sign up. >> as if mountain pride were a bad thing. the reality is that in america today, the food stamp industry is an industry and part of that industry is encouraging and expanding people to sign up and use your money. >> sean: we continue now with peter and steve. so they're saying, the government is saying the fraud is less than 1% and know the defenders of this program are saying that, but the reality is you go to 30 stores and two out of three are willing to work a fraud. >> that's right. >> sean: it doesn't sound like less than 1% to me. it sounds like 66%. >> yeah, that's right, sean. real, ultimately how do they know? literally, nationwide, usda has a little over 100 people that are dealing with the fraud issue. there are 220,000 stores that are taking ebt cards, each one

which can potentially be engaged in these transactions. >> sean: they're basically pushing paper. >> doing investigative work. >> that's right. it's very easy to do because it's a card that is interchangeable. if i get one, i can sell it to you. if i want cash instead. nobody is going to know the difference. nobody is really incentivized -- >> sean: why isn't there a picture i.d.? >> i think that would be a great idea. again, either argument is if it doesn't look like a credit card, there will be a negative stigma attached to it. >> the push today has been to make it as easy as possible, get them out there. if you lose them, there is almost no requirement to get a replacement. you see you've got a combination of let's take away mountain pride. >> sean: so we can get cigarettes, beer and condoms. >> yeah. >> sean: nobody will raise an eyebrow here. >> and it's done all the time. >> sean: we're going to madison avenue and marketing to foreign countries? here, please get on our food stamp program? >> it's like you go to madison

avenue, that's what they do, these marketing groups, that's the whole thing about breaking mountain pride. breakdown of dna of america, so you have the worst of all worlds, big companies helping the government get on it. >> sean: what's the maximum you can get a month? >> it depends on the state and depends on the cost of living. you're talking about in a lot of cases, maybe $600, $800 a month. in certain places in california, for example, depending on family size. >> sean: i bet if you broke it down, you could live a pretty healthy life with that amount of money feed ago family of four. >> well, yeah. here is the problem, is that it's not just that the program is available, sean. there are actually encouraging people to sign up. yet people that are resistant, but saying no, no. don't be resistant. sign up. >> sean: guys, thanks very much. great reporting. we appreciate it. coming up next, our special studio audience, business experts and commentators will join the discussion as this edition of "hannity" continues.

thanks for being with us

>> sean: welcome back to this special edition of "hannity." we continue with our special studio audience. lot of information, right? how many think when we hear 50 million americans on food stamps, 14 million americans on

disability, that's one in five americans. how many think something is way out of whack? how out of whack? david? >> let's look at the problem that started since the war on poverty, the percentage hasn't changed. over 15 trillion spent. it's because we're not having solutions thrown into the system. what they're doing is feeding the system, feeding the beast and keeping it alive. it's money, sean. why is catch checkup considered -- catchup considered a staple? it was put in so schools could buy it, so the companies could sell it. those are examples of the system being institutionally corrupt. >> sean: charles payne, what impact does it have when we're talking about one in five americans now, either food stamps or disability, and the rest of america has to support them? >> everyone else is pulling the cart and a lot of people are in the cart. >> obviously there is no doubt it's a huge gigantic economic drag. for me, one of the big things is the idea that somehow we're not compassionate when we say this

is too much. ultimately what we're finding out it's not just the money. it's the dependency factor. the idea that you know what? i can't make it on my own. that was the overarching argument the last election. you can't do it without us. it's not your fault though. >> just another example of them buying off votes. we saw it in the 2012 election. >> mitt romney said it. >> and he lost. >> he lost. >> sean: he lost 'cause he told the truth? >> exactly. >> there is no solution to this. let me tell you something. if dragging out the children is so ridiculous, there is no solution to this, sean. people have to wake up. big time. they are not free men. this is why we argue for limited government. we're shackled, those of us that work. >> sean: you believe as i believe and i think most of you believe, that every person is born by god with talent. the word education is to bring forth from within, predicated on a notion that it exists in there, but people, they atrophy,

they don't develop the talents. carey? >> talking about the one in five number of people who are on food stamps. remember, when the food stamps program was around the mid 60s, it was one in 25 people who were on food stamps. >> sean: that's the war on poverty. >> yes. that was lyndon johnson. why is it that the government wants to get people on food stamps so badly? because remember this, every time states end up bringing more people on to food stamps, get more money. so everyone has incentives. >> sean: sunny is disagreeing. >> the thing they miss in this whole subject is not just the cost to government, but it's the cost to the people and we keep on going after politicians to try to solve this problem. when we could solve it how my mother solved it. i was on welfare as a child. my mother had a philosophy of you buy what you need. okay. not what you want. that has to be the difference now. >> sean: when you see people that are buying booze and cigarettes and condoms.

>> exactly. but when you put it into that scenario, what's missing is the option, the alternative. capitalism. everyone is afraid to sell these people capitalism. if you have the chance -- i chose capitalism. mitt romney ran from it. like a coward from it. >> sean: right here. >> the only thing i learned tonight, people in the government are getting gold stars for signing up people for food stamps. i think we ought to say if you can get people off and back to work, you'll get bonus or gold star. people in the bureaucracy should be helping. not hurting. >> sean: dannne in. >> there are more people on food stamps than in the state of california. more residents in the state of california. the numbers are staggering. we should be striving for people to be more independent, to support themselves and not look to government as the answer, which is what i wrote about in my book.

>> sean: go ahead. >> we were talking about the 47% and there is another one that is really bothering me. the 47% of children that are associated with this program. right? i don't want to victimize the children, but if you plot the poverty rates and the dependency and food stamps and the obesity rates and graduation rates that are also following this pattern, it's just doom -- >> sean: potato chips and crap. >> it's a problem. >> sean: i promised matt. i'm coming back to you, matt and then to david. go ahead. >> we talked about the poverty. it's a poverty issue. we have 15% of americans on food stamps. how do you fix this? you fix the poverty issue. get people out of poverty. but the government wants poverty because they can get your -- >> sean: why are the american people so weak? >> because we have a problem that no one is really addressing, although we're all getting close and sunny got the closest. the generational issue. if you're raised generation

after generation, now three generations since the war on poverty in the '60s, and you're told this is how you get your benefits, your needs satisfied, well, that's what you grow up with. so you got to win the culture issue. there is another big elephant in the room that nobody talks about. the real message to the people. if you can't afford it, don't become a single parent, don't get into this. if you can't afford it as a family, don't have a child. cultural changes have to be made or the generational dependentence. it's a hamster wheel, it's a cultural hamster wheel of stupidity. >> sean: sunny, your mother broke the cycle. >> no, my mother was on welfare. let me tell you how she broke the cycle. because i was taken away from her. i was given -- she raised me, but i wasn't her biological child. once the system found out i wasn't her biological child, they told me i had to go or she would lose everything. and i lost my family because of the system. so i'm not sitting here saying that this is something where --

democrats go after people. we're sitting here wondering how we go after politicians and that's why we lose. >> sean: hang on. we're going to pick it up. you guys, i promise, are first. why aren't more people angry at the government, especially in light of the corruption we're unveiling tonight? more from our studio audience al "hannity" continues well, you can see if the hotel is pet friendly before you book it. and i got a great deal without bidding. and where's your furry friend? oh, i don't have a cat. priceline savings without bidding. bjorn earns unlimited rewas for his small business take theseags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busiss earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve limited reward here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet?

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food stamps. >> why not tighten the requirements and make it so that you earn less and have less savings instead of letting people -- you have to find an incentive and find a way to manage the government safety net and have a proper balance between what is appropriate and what is no the going to be right. >> sean: i have a question for you, tom. this goes back to it what sunny was saying. you work in government corruption all the time with judicial watch. the president got americans mad at romney with the 1%. why aren't more people angry at government for waving all of our money and we -- for wasting all of our money? >> it is all a big lie. food stamps is not about food. it is cash transfer payments. international aid. about helping j.p. morgan. if you want to reform it you have industries that of well

connected come out and say we can't do anything to reform it. >> this isn't about the poor or those immoverrished. they spend $1 trillion a year in welfare means it testing. according to the senate gop budget committee that is $60,000 a year for anybody who is is below the poverty line. >> one of the ingredients we need it dynamic economic growth. we are growing at 0.4% a year. if we grow per year a lot of this would go away. >> here it is, guys. listen. the government spends all of the money marketing this because they know every american has a certain amount of pride and we can bring that back. don't tell person you you are bad person for liking gifts. you you have tex plane to people food stamps aren't a gift. living in your mother's basement until you are 27 isn't a guest. all these things perceived as gifts are really curses. if you you explain that to the american public they will buy it. >> we are out of time. >> we have more!