>> discrimination. >> black americans, david. >> abortion. >> >> sean: everyone will come back? we will do another show? all right. we're are out of time. all right. thank you all. give you all a big hand. [ applause ]hat's all the time we have left this evening. let not your heart be troubled the news continues straight ahead.

>> the iron lady of the western world. >> tonight, a special edition of "on the record." u.s. leaders paying tribute to the iron lady, former prime minister margaret thatcher. we will talk with former vice president dick cheney. he says she was a rock star. margaret thatcher was the longest-serving and only female prime minister in britain's history and today she died at the age of 87 after suffering a

stroke. now here in the u.s., former prime minister thatcher was known for her legendary partnership with president ronald reagan. we spoke with the former vice president earlier tonight. mr. vice president, nice to see you, sir? >> good to see you, greta. >> today the people in britain say they either loved or loathed her, former prime minister margaret thatcher. what are your memories of her? >> put me in the loved camp. i had enormous respect and regard for prime minister thatcher. she was a great lady but a tremendous leader, too. i remember in the early days of desert storm when we were first dealing with saddam's invasion of kuwait, 20 years ago, the president sent me to saudi arabia to talk to king fahd. after the conversation i got his approval, i called the president back in the oval office to get his authorization so i could go ahead and deploy the force.

and margaret thatcher was there at the same time in the oval office. and a couple of months later, then i was in london. on my way to moscow. but i stopped in to 10 downing street to pay my respects. it was one of the most fascinating hours i ever spent. she kicked out all staff and kept in me and tom king and talked about what became desert storm and how you dealt with that kind of a crisis, basing her experiences in the falklands, ten years before in 1982. >> there was a famous phrase where she told the president not to go wobbly. >> that's not true. there was never any doubt about what the president was going to do. >> why was that so fascinating? spending that time with her? >> she was -- she had a grasp of the situation, the kind of thing

we were dealing with. we were trying to send thousands of troops halfway around the world to deal with the very significant military problem. she had the problems and obviously far smaller force but down all the way across the atlantic to take back the falklands after argentina had invaded, problems of public policy, of relationships with the military, especially public opinion, public opinion to support democracy and effort to mount a significant military campaign, those kinds of discussions that we had that conversation. but as i say, it was like sitting in a classroom with a professor or an expert. somebody who had really had firsthand experience in doing that kind of thing and was obviously also someone who really wanted to see us succeed, a great friend and ally of the united states. as i say, it was one of the most interesting hours i spent and certainly in the run-up to desert storm. >> the soviets, i think, the

soviet journalists tagged her the iron lady, which i think is a description she much appreciated. she liked that description. we on the outside who didn't know her have an impression of her being a tough woman and always the private side of a person is very different. what was she like in private? >> i don't think of it as tough. she was more elegant than that. without question, she was very decisive. she'd make up her mind and she'd act. you didn't want to get crossways with her. i would not have wanted to take on margaret thatcher in the house of parliament. that would have been a tough proposition. but she was always a lady also. i can remember she came on the fifth anniversary of 9/11. we always had special ceremonies at the white house on those days. she came downstairs, we went down into the ground floor there on the white house. and there's a room next to the diplomatic reception room where they have the maps that fdr used

in world war ii framed on the wall. i can remember standing there with lady thatcher, prime minister thatcher, looking at the maps and talking about d-day and what had transpired in world war ii. she was -- she conveyed this aura of knowing what needed to be done and being willing to do it no matter what the political cost. i think of what she did, for example, for the british economy. she took over as prime minister after several years of labored government that was socialist in terms of its leaning and the kinds of policies they'd put in place. when she took over, the british economy was in terrible shape. she turned it around. she privatized large parts of the economy that had been in effect nationalized during the years and the opposition party had been in power. sometimes i think of her when i think of the task that is going

to be ahead of us after obama leaves office. i happen to think barack obama's taking us in the wrong direction. i think his health care policies and so forth nationalizing the health care system or something close to it, 16% of the economy, that we're going to have whoever replaces him is going to have some very difficult tasks ahead of them. and the model that maggie thatcher established back in the '80s and in britain. >> she certainly seemed determined when she came in in 1979 and changed things, whether for it against it for the brits. and there was the miner strike was quite a big deal in recent british history. and i think people say she won the miner strike. >> right. >> and so that certainly is part of her legacy to see how she even dealt with labor. >> sure. she made major decisions, fundamental change in the direction of domestic policy, dealt with the international

situation. britain was -- uk was very, very significant player in those years, partly because of her relationship with ronald reagan, partly because we went through that period of time as the cold war was starting to wind down. so she was a rock, if you will, in terms of how she dealt with those domestic problems. she managed to marshal public support domestically but she was also a major player internationally. >> we read about the close relationship with former president reagan and the prime minister. was it as close -- do you know was it as closely as it appeared on the outside? >> that's certainly my impression. i was never in a meeting with the two of them. i can remember later when she came, i was still vice president. she came to receive an award from the heritage society. they asked me to present it to her that night, which i was happy to do. but she was then obviously some time away from her time in

politics and had written her book and so forth. but she was a rock star. she was somebody that everybody had enormous respect and admiration for. and a lot of that was based upon the way president reagan treated her. she was always welcome, obviously, in those years. and the two of them partly because of, i think, their philosophy about government's role in the society was very similar. they clearly hit it off. >> i listen to british reports today on bbc and randomly someone will stick into it, we had a woman leader before the united states. the british are very proud of that. >> they should be. she was the longest-serving prime minister in the 20th century. >> dealing with gorbachev, she said he was a man she could do business with. what was her role in the fall of the soviet union? >> i think it was very significant. partly because she stood by president reagan and i always felt that what he did, for

example, with respect to what was then called star wars, the strategic defense initiative, was a very important element in persuading the soviets that they could not keep up with modern american military capabilities, that that was partly what forced them ultimately to end the cold war, if you will. but she also -- i think there was a respect between she and gorbachev, the kind of respect that developed eventually between reagan and gorbachev. they were willing -- reagan and thatcher were willing to take advantage of the situation and knew how to engage with gorbachev ultimately. they were tough on the one hand as ronald reagan clearly was when he went to berlin and said, mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. on the other hand, they were willing to deal with him. trust, but verify. >> on days like this, we try to celebrate people.

we don't usually try to tear them apart. we'll leave that for the next day. but i'm curious, do you think she'd want to do over anything -- the apartheid in south africa and how britain dealt with that. do you think she'd want a do-over? >> i don't know of any. she certainly never confided in me that she wished she'd done something different. but i wasn't that close to her. it was a professional relationship. i had the great good fortune of being able to be with her on a number of occasions. but she doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would want to do a do-over. she made her decisions. they were tough decisions. she was decisive. then she carried them out. i think if you were spending all your time trying to figure out how you wished you'd done something over again, you couldn't deal with the next crisis. >> do you think she liked the job of prime minister? some do it out of a sense of duty and some people truly feel they're on some sort of a mission for their country? >> well, i'd put her more in the

mission category. i think she was involved in the out of sort of a sense of personal ambition. she broke all kinds of new ground as the first woman prime minister in britain. but what motivated her was her deep belief in a certain set of values and principles that she used to guide her development of policy, her processes, her method, if you will, of addressing difficult issues. she believed very strongly in a strong national offense and acted on it in the falklands. the private sector, the free economy. so i think she acted out of conviction. >> she certainly turned the economic direction around. it went from a bigger government to a smaller government when she became prime minister. so she was very determined that way. >> right. >> and nothing was going to stop her, i don't think. >> nobody did. >> no one did. that's indeed right. no one did stop her. i'm curious, though, in terms of the economy how it's turned out for britain -- obviously i know

you're a small government money, low taxes. i'm curious what you think in britain had she not been the prime minister? >> i don't know. i always thought she was right about the euro. her reluctance to see britain get sucked in, if you will, to some of the policies that the advocates of one europe policy were attracted to. i thought she had her -- that she understood what they were trying to do might well not work out. if you look at the situation today in terms of the europeans trying to manage their financial problems and deal with those that are in considerable difficulty and what that might mean for the entire community, look back at some of the things she said and the views she expressed at the time, that strikes me that she was right more often than she was wrong. >> how do you think she'd want to be remembered? >> well, i'm sure as a patriot, as somebody who gave her all, if you will, for her nation, and

that she was a consequential prime minister by anybody's standards. if i think back over the years in terms of the united states, you have to go back to somebody like winston churchill to somebody with that degree of affection and relationship that the american people had for her and especially president reagan. >> the brits are going to honor her with the same level of funeral as they did for winston churchill, prince diana and queen mother. >> i think that's appropriate. >> mr. vice president, nice to see you, sir. >> good to see you, greta. >> straight ahead, pat buchanan calls prime minister thatcher a kindred soul with president reagan. pat buchanan is here to tell you why next. also, two more former president reagan advisers. hear firsthand how the reagan/thatcher team took on economics and the cold war. and former first lady nancy

reagan on her husband's special relationship with britain's iron lady. >> in his lifetime, ronald reagan was such a cheerful and invigorating presence. it was easy to forget what daunting, historic tasks he set himself. he saw to mend america's wounded spirit, to restore the strength of the free world and to free the slaves of communism.

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save up to 20% on an ikea kitchen. mr. chairman, mr. president, ladies and gentlemen, i stand before you tonight in my red star chiffon evening gown, my face softly made up and my fair hair gently waved, the iron lady of the western world. >> tonight, u.s. leaders are reacting to the death of former british prime minister margaret thatcher. former defense secretary donald rumsfeld tweeting, margaret thatcher was known as the iron lady.

i can personally attest that i've never met a leader with more steel. rest in peace. the iron lady was a close friend and political ally of president ronald reagan, both sharing strong beliefs in free markets and in their opposition to the soviet union. pat buchanan joins us. nice to see you. >> good to see you. >> she loved that iron lady description. >> she sure did. and she was the iron lady and that's the name that was given to her by soviet journalists in 1978, i believe, when she made some hardline statement about the soviets. they want to control the world. she was right. >> you've described her also as a kindred soul with president reagan. in what way? >> in many ways. she was deeply rooted in her country, she had the views and values and beliefs of the middle class she came from. she was uncompromising about them. she genuinely believed that the free market and freedom for individuals would create really the good society. she detested socialism, probably even more than ronald reagan.

and she had an abhorrance of communism. ronald reagan was a man of middle america who brought those views and values and stood by them his whole career. he wasn't like a lot of these modern politicians. when a poll goes wrong, they are gone. >> we've been very good friends with the brits for a long time. i don't think of two leaders or two countries at the same time who were so close. >> the only two i can think of are winston churchill and fdr. but they had real tensions during world war ii. but i think you're exactly right. it brings up a quote that i recall that bismarck said in the 19th century. he said, the most important fact of the 20th century will be that the americans speak english. as kevin phillips used the term in his book about the cousins'

war, they are the cousins. we speak the same language. even though we had tremendous battles with them in the 19th century and the americans frankly did not like brits, they detested them almost more than anyone, in the 20th century, the fact we were together in world war i in the trempnches and together again in world war ii, i think that bond that has gone on and on and on since then -- and i think the brits are probably the people with whom americans feel closest. i know for me, if london is the foreign city i like to visit most. >> all right. it wasn't always absolutely perfect between the prime minister and the president. prime minister thatcher got a little might havffed with us ov invasion of grenada. >> she said, ronald, you might have given me notice. >> is that what she said to him? >> it was something of that nature. but she was very miffed. she was a british patriot. she was british through and

through. and this was part of the commonwealth. she was responsible for those islands. >> why didn't we give them notice? >> we couldn't. we had those 500 students up there in that medical school and reagan was scared to death we were going to have another hostage situation. and these murderers killed the marxist president. and he was afraid he would take those students hostage. he said, just go in, get it done and we'll explain it later. >> how did they patch it up? >> they had so much in common. that was -- was it 1983? and you had the persian and cruise missiles, she backed those. ronald reagan had backed her in the falklands war when some folks in the administration thought we should take a more neutral stand between the argentine and the brits. >> a lot of losses there, too, a lot of british losses, a lot of losses of the people of argentina there. >> yes, but that sort of made --

that made margaret thatcher in the mind of the british people, that victory, that decisive action made her much the way that the air controller made ronald reagan in the missile crisis. after the missile crisis, you saw jack kennedy who was this young president in a much, much different light. and the british people saw margaret thatcher that way. she was in office, i think, eight years after the falklands and she won three elections. >> pat, always nice to see you. thank you, sir. >> always a pleasure. coming up, she is world famous for being the iron lady but what was margaret thatcher like in private? you will hear from former secretary of state henry kissinger coming up. but first, a former reagan economic adviser says prime minister thatcher knew how to add numbers. what does he mean by that? that's next. >> what the honorable member is saying is he would rather the poor were poorer, provided the rich were less rich. anyone have occasional constipation,

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tonight, tony blair praising his predecessor, margaret thatcher, saying her global impact was vast. you can see it in washington today. thatcher's economic principles echoed in modern conservative policies. art laugher was an economic adviser to president reagan. he joins us. >> how are you tonight?

>> very well. tell me, sir, when did you first meet margaret thatcher and what was your impression of her? >> the first time it was in 1977. she was a member of parliament. i was taken in to meet her in her office by brian redding. she came across a little bit bossy, a little bit tough. wasn't terribly pleasant. but later on i got to know her a lot better and she was just fantastic. >> what changed in your view? why did your opinion of her change? >> first place, she became prime minister as opposed to to a leader of the opposition and that's a huge difference. if you know in britain, the prime minister is like speaker of the house where you have effectively a unicameral government, one chamber, the house of lords isn't very important. she had total control. then she became less confrontational personally and tried to seek the rightens as. she was very dominant once a decision has been made. she didn't make political compromises easy at all because

she didn't need to. but she didn't want to do things to hurt the country to appease this or that group. she did what she thought was right at all times. she knew how to add up the numbers. >> let me ask you, when she took office, the economic scene she faced and then what did she do? >> she had the team there -- she add sir keith joseph, in charge of all the privatization of coal, oil, rail. she had jeffrey howe, chancellor of the ex--checker at that time. her first policy was a big tax bill. she cut taxes where they'd never been paid, personal income tax from way high up to only super high up and she raised the vat, a tax that could never be avoided. and it worked very badly for them. the stock market collapsed in britain. what really saved lady thatcher was the falkland war, which brought her in. she won the election. but after that, on economics, on taxes, she was great.

she got nigel lawson, he cut the highest tax rate down to 40% and you saw a boom in britain like you've never seen. she was phenomenal on deregulation. she was phenomenal on privatization. she was phenomenal on cutting government spending. when she privatized housing, she gave people a stake in the homes that they were living in. it was amazing what she did. >> it wasn't all smooth sailing. she left a lot of bad blood behind her and a lot of brits today who are not wild about her. what was it that caused those people to be so unhappy with her? >> especially in her own party. she was not thrown out by the labor government. she was thrown out by the conservatives, if you'll remember. it was terrible. there was a revolution internally. and frankly she stepped on a lot of toes inside. when there was an answer and it was done correctly, she wouldn't compromise. she wouldn't give favors to this person or that person. she did what she thought was right for britain. and the phrase she used, i see it on the news today, she didn't want to make the rich poorer and

the poor poorer. that just wasn't her idea. she knew if you tax people who work and pay people who don't work, you're going to get a lot more people not working. she was very clear on economics. and i thought she did a fantastic job. and i loved her dearly. she was a wonderful person, greta. she was a girl's girl. she was a very nice person. one time i was leaving, we had dinner and i was leaving, it was raining and i couldn't get a cab. and she burst out of her house and went, cab, cab! and the cab came up over the sidewalk and picked me up. it was amazing. just a really lovely person. >> art, thank you, sir. >> thank you, greta. coming up, prime minister thatcher's famous for declaring the west could do business with soviet leader mikhail gorbachev. how did that remark influence former president reagan. bub mcfarland is here to tell you. that's next. when he first met margaret thatcher, did he think she would ever become prime minister?

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mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. >> president reagan and british prime minister margaret thatcher, together they battled communism and in 1989 saw the berlin wall torn down. bob mcfarlane worked with prime minister thatcher throughout the cold war. there's a famous comment that people say margaret thatcher gave president reagan a handg handbaging. what was that all tonight? >> normally they got along. they did so many good things together. however, when president reagan launched the star wars

initiative without really giving any warning to the allies, prime minister thatcher believed that he was building a bubble over the united states that would separate us from europe and that it was costly, it wouldn't work. came to camp david in december of 1984 and just gave a withering criticism, quite penetrating, of why this was a great bad idea. the president rallied -- tried to do the best he could. but we papered over it, this was a cordial exchange. said, bud, why don't you go over to london after the christmas holiday and see if you can't get margaret to at least not be quite so local visibly. well, i hadn't gotten two paragraphs in my talking points before she held up her hand. and i got the same handbaging that the president had. and toward the end, i said,

prime minister, the president has authorized me to say that he believes as much as $300 million a year ought to be subcontracted to british firms. there was a long pause. and we left, parted and didn't see each other for about three or four months. and when we did in london, she said, could we have a word? meanwhile, there had been not one peep of criticism from her. and in the alcove in victoria and albert hall, she said, i'm beginning to think there may be something to this after all. but that was one of the very few times there was any disagreement at all between these two giants. and i have to say, greta, president reagan drew strength from prime minister thatcher. when any leader is launching something unorthodox or counter

to the conventional wisdom, at some level, they worry, what if this doesn't work? but in reagan's case, he had in prime minister thatcher a leader who was doing very hard things and providing the evidence that it was working against the trade unionists, against those who criticized rebuilding the defense of the british empire. but they were philosophically always on the same page, very, very warm in their personal relations. greta, today i look back on those years and there were four that stood out -- the pope, reagan, thatcher and gorbachev. and we're just not attracting that level of -- that quality of leadership, the ability to inspire anymore. >> normally gorbachev is still

living today. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. always a pleasure. former secretary of state henry kissinger was friends with prime minister thatcher. he knew the person behind the iron lady's public image. we spoke with secretary kissinger a short time ago. nice to see you, sir. >> nice to be on this program. >> dr. kissinger, i know you admired the former prime minister, margaret thatcher. i'm curious why. >> i have known margaret thatcher for nearly four decades. i met her when she was minister of education. and we stayed in contact for all the period in between, including her illness. i admired her because in a period of division and uncertainty in the western world, she came forward with strong convictions. she asserted that it was the task of a leader to take its

people from where they were to a future that she as a leader would help to define. she was a staunch ally of western values and of course of the united states. she had a special relationship with american presidents, especially president reagan. and she was a powerful leader and a warm human being. >> the soviet journalists gave her the nickname the iron lady, which i understand that she liked very much. i'm curious, in private, is that the way you would describe her? >> well, i would not want to be between margaret thatcher and some objective she thought important. she was a very strong person. in private, she had a very warm

and i would say feminine qual y quality. and she defended her views in private as she did in public. but there was also a sense of a caring human being -- understand, i never worked with her officially. i saw her periodically over this period. but relatively frequently. and the person that i saw over that period was a very warm and caring human being who had a very strong sense of obligation to the cause of freedom and free enterprise. >> you met her before she became

prime minister. i think you met her about 1975 or so the first time. >> i think a little bit before probably. >> if at that time i'd asked you, will this woman ever be prime minister of england, what would you have said? >> well, when i first met her, she wasn't even leader of the opposition. so i would not have thought that she would become prime minister of england. after i met her and after she became leader of the opposition, i thought she'd either become a spectacular prime minister or she might fail to click with the public. >> what about the falklands war? >> the falklands war, to her, it was an attack on british territory. and she was determined that she would not give up any british

territory to military -- what she considered military aggression. i had tea with her during the falkland war. and i had heard around london a lot of ideas about compromises and we were running a shuttle at the time. so i asked her what compromises she favored. and it turned out, the word for compromise was forbidden in her presence. and she said, it would not end except with the expulsion of the military forces on the falklands, argentine forces. and it was a necessary thing from her point of view to do. >> dr. kissinger, nice to see you. always nice to talk to you, sir. >> good to be with you.

straight ahead, north korea, iran, china, what would prime minister thatcher do? ambassador john boulden is her to talk about that next. plus, former first lady nancy reagan on her husband's unique partnership with margaret thatcher. that's coming up. >> where there is discord, may we bring harmony. where there is error, may we bring truth. where there is doubt, may we bring faith. and where there is despair, may we bring hope. [ male announcer ] how can power conmption in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. twe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.

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former british prime minister margaret thatcher was a longtime friend of ambassador john bolton. in 2005, she supported bolton's nomination as u.s. ambassador fo the u.n. saying, on the basis of our years of friendship, i know from experience the great qualities you will bring to the demanding post. thatcher continues, i cannot imagine anyone better fitted to undertake these tasks than you. ambassador bolton joins us. nice to see you. >> nice to be here. >> that letter was a surprise to you? >> it was. it was certainly unsolicited and showed that mrs. thatcher was not at all afraid to interfere in the internal politics of the united states. >> that was in a heated debate

when people were trying to keep you from assuming that post. >> yes. it didn't affect joe biden and john kerry. >> how did you know her? >> i met her as a junior official in the reagan and bush administrations. i got to know her better after the first bush administration, after she had left the office of prime minister. as she became very interested in debates in the european union about the future of the euro, the common currency, which she kept britain out of. she saw the risk to british currency in the sovereign euro and was wise in doing so. >> what do you think she'd think about the chaos going on around the world, iran, north korea and china? >> she was the first person to see in mikhail gorbachev the possibility there was a different kind of soviet leader, as he turned out to be. not willing to use force to keep eastern europe under control, not willing to use force to keep

the soviet union united. but she never harbored any illusions that we were suddenly going to be in a completely peaceful world. she couldn't have foreseen what we would have been involved in now. but she couldn't have doubted the forces for liberty in the west had to stand together against threats wherever they might come from. >> i'm struck by -- i talked to very successful men who have -- vice president dick cheney, secretary of state henry kissinger, yourself, bud mcfarlane and everybody has an enormous amount of respect for her. but everyone's saying she's tough. no one's complaining about her. >> obviously people have remarked she was the first female prime minister of great britain and the only one so far. we haven't had a female president. to me, the most important thing about her was where she came from. she was the daughter of a grocer, lived over the shop. she got a scholarship to oxford. she prevailed against all odds

in a party that was heavily class based. she overcame a lot. what was significant was she didn't look back and complain about it. she didn't talk about being a victim. when she was an undergraduate at oxford, women couldn't join the oxford union. but when she was prime minister, she came back and spoke at the oxford union which by then was admitting women, to show that she didn't bear them any ill will. i was just over there to speak to the oxford union in january and the student leader of it was a woman. >> all the men admire that i've spoken about her today, may have feared her a little bit -- a tad bit. >> her colleagues in the conservative party were not so admiring when she was there. they used to talk about being handbagged by her, which meant they got her opinion straight-on. >> ambassador, thank you, sir. nice to talk to you. >> thank you. coming up, former first lady nancy reagan on the death of margaret thatcher. that's next. step seven point two one two.

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the great angloamerican alliance has been the greatest alliance we've ever known in the defense of freedom. >> tonight, margaret thatcher, being remembered as a leader and a lady. former first lady nancy reagan issuing a statement saying this part, it is well known that my husband and lady thatcher enjoyed a very special relationship. as leaders of their respective countries during one of the most difficult and pivotal periods in modern history, ronnie and margaret were political soulmates, committed to freedom and resolved to end communism. as prime minister, margaret had the clear vision and strong determination to stand up for her beliefs at a time when so many were afraid to rock the boat. as a result, she helped to bring about the collapse of the soviet union and the liberation of millions of people. when president rag opinion died in 2004, prime minister thatcher paid respects at the u.s.

capitol and gave the eulogy at president reagan's funeral. and today, george h.w. bush said about margaret thatcher, margaret was, to be sure, one of the 20th century's fiercest advocates. a leader of rare character who carried high the banner of her convictions and whose princeles in the end helped the free world. and democratic congressional candidate elizabeth colbert-bush saying, when i talk to younger women about their careers, i point to market thatcher as a role model. she's a tough consensus builder who cared about everybody and put her country's fiscal house in order. in short, margaret is a stateswoman and an example for all of us. former prime minister thatcher will receive a ceremonial funeral with military honors. thank you for being with us tonight. well see you all again tomorrow nigh