coming up right after us. until tomorrow night let me say and behalf of all of us at fox news, good night and god bless. >> judge jeanine: hello and welcome to a special edition of "justice." i'm judge jeanine pirro. we continue our coverage of the boston terror attack. with the latest is mike tobin who is with us fromertown, massachusetts. >> reporter: judge, according to ed tivo the house behind me is just one and a half blocks off of the search grid outside of the perimeter and that is why dhokhar tsarnaev was able to avoid detection as he hid in the boat the avoiding detection by police and federal agents searching for him. now, they have him. he is according to the governor in serious but stable

condition. in beth israel hospital. he is still unable to speak, having been shot through the jaw. he could be charged at any time, the federal public defender has offered to represent him. myriad conrad says she expects to be appointed. following the surrender the is celebrations were immediate and spontaneous. they were out on the street but no where was the celebration more poignant than fenway park where the crowd sang "sweet caroline" but they were supplemented by neil diamond the man who sings it best. >> are you ready? ♪ >> reporter: no one invited him to come along and sing. he flew to town on his own nickel walked up to the ballpark and offered to sing. of course, they let him and he did it all to show support for the people here, judge. >> judge jeanine: that's great. let me ask you a question. with so many law enforcement agencies on this. the shootout in watertown.

>> reporter: right. >> judge jeanine: dhokhar is bleeding and one block behind the perimeter. wouldn't there be a trail to his location whether he is one block beyond or not? >> there was some what of a trail to his location and that is how he was spotted. the homeowner came out to smoke a cigarette and notice that there was a door to the shed open and there was bloody clothes and blood stains going into the boat where the shrink wrap over the top of the boat was disturbed. the individual picked up the shrink wrap and saw him and backed off and called 911. why there wasn't a larger or longer blood trail i can't answer that. >> judge jeanine: thank goodness for the thermal sensorring from the helicopters as well as a very alert woman who notice or the man who noticed that there was some blood around the boat. mike tobin, thanks so much. and now to catherine herridge, fox news chief intelligence correspondent. catherine, what do we know about the suspect's terror

connection? >> reporter: fox news was told that investigators are exploring potential links between the older brother tamerland and an extremist group. this is based on his travels as well as the contents of his you tube travel. among the videos deleted from the play list were links to another extremist group which is under the umbrella of the teamist caucuses emrate. investigators are looking for related e-mail traffic and direct person to person contact and evidence of training. in 2012011 the group was desiga terrorist organization. it received a similar label from the al-qaeda and taliban captions committee that same year. the russian government asked the fbi to investigate the older brother because he was "a follower of radical islam and a strong believer and had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the united states to join what the are you shawns called an unspecified

underground group. the fbi said it found no evidence of terrorist activity. that revealation according to a member of the house intelligence committee is causing unease at the bureau. >> at this point i think there is a great deal we don't know about it. clearly we were given a request to look into his background prior to the trip. there are a lot of palpitations. what if anything did they miss and that will be heavily scrutinized. >> this is the first we have had identified and significant that it is one that has these islamic ties, judge. >> judge jeanine: you wrote a book about americans being recruited by the terrorists. were you surprised by any of this? >> we are early in the investigation and one of the things i outlined in "the next wave" is there a profile. often you see cases of individuals born overseas, they come here to the united states

as young kids and they he never fully asimulate. that may well have been the case with the older brother who was a leader for the younger individual. it is not uncommon to see people through the web back more radicalized. you see that he had posted what i would describe as this jihadi stew of web videos lectures with the different radical imams. a lot of that evidence is there and part of what the described as the new digital jihad. sometimes you don't even have to leave your own home to get access to this kind of material or the individuals. >> judge jeanine: catherine herridge, thanks so much. >> you're welcome. >> judge jeanine: now, that the is suspect is in custody how will he be brought to justice? with me he is michael sullivan, former acting director of the atf and the former prosecutor who prosecute the the shoe bomber. and jay sekulo and peter

johnson, jr. welcome, gentlemen. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: we know that dhokhar tsarnaev is in serious but stable condition. a lot of talk about miranda. michael you prosecuted richard reid the shoe bomber in federal court. how unusual is it to not read miranda warnings? >> case specific. if there is an imminent public safe itty concern they should exercise the miranda exception under public safety and try to get as much information as they possibly can in order to protect the public. i think it is perfectly legitimate under these circumstances. >> judge jeanine: jay, to you when we talk about the public safety exception here. how long is that exception good for are? how long can they go without reading him his rights? >> there is no definitive statement but most people believe it is 48 hours. you a situation here where the distort accused is not conscious are in to even speak so 48 hours.

points to a fundamental problem with thinking about mir randiesing. do we want a prosecution or an investigation to determine how deep the terrorist links might be and whether there were additional plans for terror activity. an awful load of weapons that the two possessed. the situation with the travel to russia. all miranda means and judge you know this, if there is a statement given by the defendant before he is mirandaizeed it may not be admissible. an evidencery point. affirmative defense to the admissibility of a piece of evidence. they already made statements to the person they carjacked saying they did this. i'm not really wore relationshipped about prosecution here. this is a perfect example of when serious consideration should be he given to enemy combatant status and needs to be looked at seriously. >> judge jeanine: the obama administration has indicated they are going through the public safety exception but you all indications are that they want to prosecute this guy in

the federal court. having said that when the police came out and said that, you know, this is no longer a danger here. haven't they in essence destroyed the public safety exception by saying everything is okay, everybody can come out, all is well? >> here is the problem. they made that statement and then about ten minutes later they engaged the defendant. the accused. so all was not well. and i understand the police were making the best effort. i think they did a heroic and fantastic job. i'm not sure that would be dispositive. i think the whole idea of mirandizing this individual is a mistake from the get go. i have done a lot of work with the justice department, worked with treasury. i hate that they are going down this route but looks like that is the road they go down. >> judge jeanine: it does seem that they will go through the federal criminal justice system. having said that is there some point at which the miranda issue is going to be evaluated?

>> going to be evaluated depending on how much information the high asset interrogation team gets from the suspect. the bigger question, judge jeanine is how do we value our constitutional rights in this country. obviously we are afraid. obviously we are in terror. but do we pick ourselves up or throw the constitution down and say okay, now we are going have military police and military authorities making dehe sixes about criminal justice matters in the country. that is a robust question. >> judge jeanine: are you saying peter then because he is a citizen that he now has more rights than someone who is an enemy combatant in another country? >> the most contemptible citizen in the united states today but you he is a citizen of the united states of america and we have a framework by which people are judged. by which people guilt or innocence is ajudged. i believe the exception should go forward.

i don't care if it goes forward for 30 days if they interrogate h him for 30 days but at some point i believe he belongs in the federal court because if he doesn't go into the federal court these terrorists have won and that is what i don't want. >> judge jeanine: you believe that the military tribunal is not the way to go. michael sullivan i will go back to you for another men now. richard reid prosecuted in the federal court. how long was his sentence? >> he received a life sentence. he received the maximum sentence that the law provided for. but i agree with jay. i think that our government needs to determine whether or not there is any national security, national defense benefit by identifying him as an enemy combatant and if it is, if there is then they should identify him, designate him as an enemy combatant and get as much intelligence as we possibly can from him. if they make a determination that there is none then obviously he should be

prosecuted. >> judge jeanine: gentlemen, stand by. we are coming back. later, how far can the government go to get answers in their interrogation of the boston bombing suspect? when our little girl was born,

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the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) designed for your most precious cargo. (girl) what? (announcer) the all-new subaru forester. (announcer) designed for your most precious cargo. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. >> judge jeanine: back with michael, jay and peter. peter, what is the benefit to trying a case in the civilian court as opposed to a military tribunal? >> that is an interesting question. the benefit is ensuring that the rule of law in the constitution is met. i think we should do everything we possibly can to get as much information legally out of this guy and if we have to violate his miranda rights under the -- under the emergency doctrine, the public safety exception, do it. but that is what we are going to be doing. >> judge jeanine: here is my take on this. the bottom line is we don't

need any statement he makes to allow us to convict him. i don't think there is any question. you have him on video and admitting he is the bomber to the guy he ends up carjacking. you have people who saw him put the backpack down. if he is an enemy combatant and tried in a mill tare arery tribunal isn't it true that those convictions are questionable in terms of not having gone to the united states supreme court? >> welsh the united states supreme court, first of all, has said and i got a lot of respect for peter but i disagree with the point. the supreme court said that u.s. you citizens when they become belligerent and they can become enemy combatants and subject to military tribunals number one. number two, i think it is the wrong lens. we can prosecute this guy if he survives and put him in jail forever. great. except that doesn't answer the question. by the way, it is not just the department of justice through the fbi that can mir randize

him. >> you are allowing the taliban and al-qaeda and the people that hate you and me and what we stand for and the people that we love in this country, there has to be and i think and i respect you and i love what you say all the time. there has to be some respect for the constitution and i know you fight every day for the constitution. >> peter -- >> judge jeanine: the issue is that the federal court convictions are many in the years since 9/11 and in the military tribunal very few and they have been subject to a lot of reversals. so michael is sullivan let me go to you. which way do we go. in do we want to be assured of a conviction that is longstanding or is it better to send a message and keep this guy under questioning for the next three and a half years like jose padilla? >> it doesn't have to be one versus the other. i would suggest that essentially you exhaust his enemy combatant status to get

as much intelligence as you possibly can to see what cells he is connected to, are they here or abroad and then ones that is done prosecute him for the terrorist act in an article three court. he would be facing the death penalty under the circumstances. >> and third -- >> we have to give some thought to this notion. why wasn't the navy seals then involved? why wasn't the green berets involved in the takedown? why wasn't the battalion -- you you are confusing. >> no, i'm not. >> with the investigation. >> i'm talking about. >> judge jeanine: the issue, gentlemen, without getting. >> peter. >> do we give it over to the military? no. >> judge jeanine: without get into the issue whether it was seals or here or there. at the end of the day this guy is going to be tried in civilian court. will the government seek the death penalty? >> yes. >> they have to. >> they will. >> and i also think that the government -- yes, they should. and i hope they will seek the death penalty if it goes into an article three court and a i also believe that the united

states attorney initiate a revokation of his naturalization of his citizenship. i understand from the record he became a naturalized citizen on 9/11 of last year under false pretenses. he wore an oath of allegiance to our country and wore an oath to take up arm for our country and he took up arms against our country. >> judge jeanine: citizenship is not a criteria. citizenship is not a criteria for determining which court you go in the military tribunal report other. >> you don't have to make that decision now, judge. >> judge jeanine: right. >> we are getting way off base here. they can determine him to be an enemy combatant today and still bring the article three court. [ overlapping speakers ] >> our nation is not based on. >> the supreme court already said -- >> i believe that the defense authorization act is

unconstitutional and i don't believe we he have a true basis to do this. i say interrogate the heck out of this guy -- >> i disagree. >> -- as long as it takes but let's have a trial. >> jay is absolutely, correct. he can be he designated an enemy combatant and get as much entell against as we can from him. >> it is up to the president. the president is not going to do it. let's deal with the cards we have. >> that doesn't mean he should don't it. he should do it. >> judge jeanine: based upon the way the u.s. attorney has spoken we are going in under the public safety exception and charge him and once they charge him and the federal defender is jumping up and down trying to get permission to represent him it is clear that both are going to happen. >> we need to say to the world that our criminal justice system will take you down if you take americans down. i'm proud of our system. >> he did take americans down and we don't know he if they are going to take him down. we have to get the intelligence. >> let's put the u.s. >> we have to -- >> judge jeanine: i think you are all right and the obama

administration is playing it down the middle here and going to do both. michael, jay and peter thanks for being with us. >> thanks, judge, thank you. >> judge jeanine: what interrogation techniques will be used against dhokhar? and the older brother was intertare gaited in 2011 and they let him go. does the fbi have some explaining to do? we're here! we're going to the park! [ gina ] oh hey, dan! i really like your new jetta! and you want to buy one like mine because it's so safe, right? yeah... yeah... i know what you've heard -- iihs top safety pick for $159 a month -- but, i wish it was more dangerous, like a monster truck or dune buggy! you can't have the same car as me! [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. let's get a jetta. [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and there's no better time to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under $200 a month. visit vwdealer.com today.

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>> judge jeanine: now, that dhokhar tsarnaev the 19-year-old suspect is in custody, interrogation appears to be the next step. the team who will most likely question him is a high value

detainee interrogation group made up of agents from the fbi, cia and department of defense. what techniques will they use? let's ask former cia former counter terrorism agent gary burnson and former special agent in charge of the bin laden unit, jack klunen. welcome, gentlemen. how tough will they be on this guy? >> they are are going in here because this is what the team was designed to do and they will try to elicit information to detect whether or not there was in fact other are cells or coconspirators. they doll a behavioral analysis. they know he is 19 years old and his physical condition precludes him from being spoken to at this point in time so they will have done a lot of analysis before they go in there and know probably within 30 seconds to a minute as to where he will go with this. if they can persuade him he has

an out. >> judge jeanine: what might that out be? >> at some point he will probably realize he is facing capital murder charges. >> judge jeanine: facing death. >> they haven't charged him but go ahead. >> and the fact his family will play an undoubtedly an important role in all this. really about eliciting information. >> judge jeanine: i'm going to interrupt you right there. when you say the family will undoubtedly play a role in this. did you find it unusual. you are with the fbi and you know the game and the drill and how it works. when we got the request, when the fbi comes out and says here are the two guys can you help us identify them who they are and if you know them. the family here on our dime that we gave political asylum and scholarships to they don't say a word and you know as well as you are sitting here that they knew they were their sons, their cousins, their nephews. does that make you angry? >> i think the uncle said how embarrassed he was.

>> judge jeanine: but that was after. >> that was after the fact. we have to understand that they were spoken to, that the fbi interviewed the family probably twice. were these guys operating in a vacuum? i don't want to die gres digero far. there are a lot of tell tale signs that need to be addressed. i don't think it will be a hard sale. entirely possible given his physical state right now by the time he is conscious and able to answer questions, judge and you know this better than most he may in fact have a lawyer. >> judge jeanine: and the lawyers are trying to get involved in this right now and looking to get approval from a federal judge. all right. talk to me. >> if he is not in there with a lawyer they will sit down with him and attempt to establish rapport with him. they will not go in there and try to bully him. they will make it clear to him what his crimes were, this he know what his crimes were. he know hass his crimes were.

they will walk him through the entire thing very carefully. they don't want to it alienate him and they will try to establish rapport and get him to start to talk to them and establish areolationship with them and establish a bit of trust. based on that, look this is not gait that traveled to russia. his brother traveled to are you you sha and was probably the one that got recruited. if they are able to determine that this brother was recruit by the other brother who is essentially is follower, i suspect if they can get one on one they will be able to get his cooperation. he is not a hardened trained terrorist. he is a terrorist that murdered people and did terrible things but i think that they will get him to talk. >> judge jeanine: if they can get h him to talk, let's assume that they get him to talk. what do you think he knows if the older brother is the one who went to russia and had the jihaddist videos. >> the depth of information that he has may be little. he may know not an awful lot of

information at all. we are making a lot of assumptions about his affiliation and his brother's affiliation and others. we he don't know. he may know very little. we have to find out if there are other conspirators out there. what we want a actionable stuff. what we want is cooperation. we just don't want him to give us bad information because we know that this stuff can send us down bad alleys. >> judge jeanine: do you think talking nice to this guy, he was blowing people's legs off five days guy. >> they will go in and not just talk nice to him but try to be reasonable. the thing that they will try to determine is was your brother recruited or did he walk in and volunteer. there was a handler directing them. what we need to know is was this self-initiated by the older brother after he established contact or is there a handler directing things and other things will be directed.

it is important to know have the chechens opened a front in the u.s. for attacks. >> what is the premise here? since late 2001 to october of 2011 there have been 53 al-qaeda inspired attacks directed at the homeland. this is what is driving this effort here. because we are always talking about homegrown. what is causing ray kelly to sleep at night. what is causing the fbi director and all of people in law enforcement is ten years out from 9/11 we can't answer the following question. we don't know what is going to happen. so again we have to go in, build rap pore, ge rapport. get the information. it is actionable. not a confession. >> judge jeanine: we don't need a confession that the point. trying to protect the homeland. >> there is enough evidence. >> judge jeanine: gary and jack we will see you after the break. stay with us. up next, the fbi knew about

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live from america's news headquarters i'm marianne rafferty. secretary of defense chalk hagel is on his way to israel at this hour. the first leg of a week long middle east visit. he will talk with israeli leaders about syria's civil war and iran's nuclear program and put the finishing touches on a large u.s. arms sale process. it also includes stops in jordan, saudi arabia, egypt and the united arab emrates. firefighters battling a brush fire east of l.a. people living in the area ordered to evacuate. officials saying the blaze

burned over 90 acres and is only 10% contained. the fire was sparked by a gardener working in his backyard. helicopters dropping water, current wind conditions light but firefighters bracing for any possible changes. a four acre brush fire also burning just across interstate 405. now, back to "justice" with judge jeanine. for the latest headlines log on to foxnews.com. >> judge jeanine: could the boston bombings have been prehe vented. the fbi admits that they spoke with the older brother in 2011 at the request of most likely the russian government who wore relationshipped that tamerlan the older brother was a follower of radical islam. so, did someone drop the ball? with us, former fbi special agent on the bin laden unit, jack and joining him is the assistant director of the fbi counter terrorism division terry joins us from

san francisco. i will start with you terry. is someone in trouble here? >> judge, we will find out what is going to happen here but i think what happened is this, the fbi agent got assigned the case. probably on the it jttf and went in and did the interview. what you want to do in a situation like this is get in front of the person and use the authority and guidelines you have and complete the investigation and you go go sit down usually in the person's house and take everything you know and you know a lot by the time you conduct the interview. you ask a lot of questions and you are looking for the person to tell you the answers that you know to be truthful. if you catch the person in a lie you will know maybe they are not being honest but if everything in the house looks right, the person is answering the questions correctly if you detect any anomalies it is very, very defendant under the guidelines we operate with to go any further with it. we don't have the kind of domestic intelligence collection we used to have. and so we can't just keep these

things going entirely or forever. >> judge jeanine: jack, look, i watched homeland and 4. at the end of the day, you have another government who is saying we have a guy in the united states who might be a terrorist. we need your hope. you go in and what does he say i'm not a terrorist and then you call it a day. in. >> i don't take issue with terry. i have a lot of respect for terry. when you get a lead from a foreign government like this and let's say it was the russians and they tell you that this guy has not only coming into the country but may be joining underground groups you own this case. it is not the russians that own the case. we own the case. this guy is in our country. gentlemen thyes, the guidelineu to do certain amount of, the fbi acknowledged that they scrubbed his background. looked at internet traffic and the phone records. probably did the financial workup. at the end of the day you and i sitting across from the table.

they did it one time and after he came back fro they did it a second time. at some point somebody has to say a, we don't see anything but a but we will close the case down because we term that he is not the a threat to national security. somebody makes the call. >> judge jeanine: terry, let me go back to you. this buy it goes to russia for -- this guy goes to russia for six months last year which signals there probably is a problem. he has all of the radical videos, jihaddist videos that he is posting. does any one follow up on this? you don't need a search warrant. by the way. this is public information. just follow the guy. this is a bombing in boston. we interrogated in boston. we know the russian government is concerned about him. he has been flying to russia. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to put two and two together. why did it take us so long to

find the guy? >> if the case was closed and the initial interviews were done and the case is closed there is really no mechanism to go back and rehe look at this because there is too many of these cases going on. people make these judgments all day long. we have thousands of these things going on all day long and in this instance we are still getting fragmented information about what exactly was the team line here on what happened. i think at the end of the kay when all of the information comes out and i agree with what jack was just saying we will have better perspective of how this transpired and what kind of information was used here to make these judgments. he want to take this and go one step further. talking earlier about should we have a trial or talk about this person as an enemy combatant. one of the greatest things about having the system we do is this kind of information needs to come out. it doesn't need to be concealed behind prisons and places like guantanamo. it needs to come into the system. we need to be able to talk

about this and be able to see what exactly happened. the best place we will get those kinds of answers is right in the middle of the courtroom. >> judge jeanine: the only people who need this information is people who can act on it. the most important thing is protecting americans. do you actually buy this? don't you look for the usual suspects if you is a bombing in boston a guy who lives in boston, another government told us about him? you know, bob mueller has to be shaking in his boots right now at the fbi. >> i don't think the director is looking forward to appearing before congress and asking the questions from the house selected or senate selected committee. the director has transformed the bureau. it is about predictive analysis and not always just reacting to post incident because we see we did pretty well. we are always talking about the homegrown phenomenon. i think we have to step up and any organization has to do an after crisis analysis.

>> judge jeanine: certainly that is going to happen. i don't think there is a question. >> if we don't have the right legislation if we didn't have the right skillsets to win the talks we have to right the ship. you know why? because at the end of the day the public demands this. we have to be 100% right. >> judge jeanine: and it is not an easy job and for the fbi they do do a great job, no question. i think there is issues that have to be resolved. terry and jack, thanks so much for being with us. when we come back, is this the new you face of terror? and later can future attacks ever be prevented? angie's list is essential. i automatically go there.

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i'm busy, busy, busy, busy. thank goodness for angie's list. from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more, angie's list -- reviews you can trust. oh, angie? i have her on speed dial. just so shocking like one day i don't know like one day you can just like acting like nothing happened and like if you really did this, which it just seems like he did, it is crazy how he can be cool and calm tempered like that. he just acted like nothing happened. >> judge jeanine: by all accounts, the tsarnaev brothers never raised any eyebrows. no one thought them capable of such horrific acts. the younger brother a student and wrestler. the older brother a husband and a father. both reaping the benefits of being in america. is the face of terror changing in this country? with me is terrorism analyst eric who joins me from d.c.

all right, eric, chechnya not akrontry that we hear about as it relates to terrorism on our shores. is your take on all of this? >> judge, i have to say chechnya, at the end of the day chechnya is another front in the global jihad. not just a russian separatist movement like i have heard some commentators saying the past few days. chechnya is looked at by chechens and foreign and global terrorists as a front against the global jihad. the other rink super bowl with chechens they are white muslims, kaw saysian. in an airport you are not necessarily look at a white guy with a baseball cap like these two guys were. when we saw, sir veilance video the first guy i looked at was

the middle eastern looking gentleman in the blue track suit. that is another advantage for the terrorists to use caucasians. >> judge jeanine: i think it is the perfect example of how the racial profiling isn't the way to go. i mean that it is all about behavior and making sure that we look at what people are doing as opposed to how they look. but i mean this kid this 19-year-old, he had a baby face. he could be any one of the kids that we know. any one of the kids we see walking on the the street. let me bring your attention to that bump and stop that we just heard coming in and that is that this kid apparently worked out in the gym. he was relationship very relaxed. how hard could this kid have been? >> well, the 19-year-old, judge, i believe that he was radicalized by his older brother. apparently his older brother was a very he forceful personality and i think one of the key things here is look the older brother last year we know visited chechnya, the jihad

hotbeds. he was there for six months. i'm sure he wasn't just there looking for good russian vodka. no, he was hooking up with global terrorists. where were our intelligence officials and agents here? he was being monitored? how did they miss the signs? >> judge jeanine: how often does a foreign country ask us to look at someone who may be a terrorist in our own country. that is for a future hearing that is for sure. what about the fact that you have the kid and the two bombers who stayed in the area. they didn't try to commit suicide. there were no -- you know, they didn't flee the area. they are are hanging out. i mean this is -- you know, the height of confidence, arrogance. as a much as we say that this 19-year-old may have been influenced by the brother he had some way of handling himself? >> don't get me wrong, judge he is a terrorist through and through and the chechens are

some of the most vicious terrorists worldwide. arrogance and perhaps amateur issues new mexico that sense. amateurism in that sense. there had to be training on the russian visit by the older brother. the key point which nobody asked. judge, which mosque did the two brothers attend? were they radicalized in an american mosque? we know that there are many radicalized american mosques that is without a doubt that take foreign funding. where did they go in boston? who was their imam. is a key question. everyone is asking how did they he become radicalized? maybe right here at an american mosque. no one is asking the question. >> judge jeanine: good question. very good to have you on. thanks for being with us this evening. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: when we get back, what can any of us do to prevent future attacks? is it even possible? and we pay tribute to the men and women in law enforc enforct

who tracked down the suspected bomber. stay with us. ♪ using telemedical and mobile technologies, verizon innovators are connecting trauma surgeons to patients in the field. helping them get the attention they need, before they even reach the hospital.

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whatever agenda drove these minutes to such heinous acts cannot prevail. whatever they thought they could ultimately achieve they he already have failed. they failed because the people of boston refuse to be entim dated. they failed because as americans we refuse to be terrorized. they failed because we will not waiver from the character are and the compassion and the values that define us as a country. >> judge jeanine: but will character compassion and values prevent future terror attacks?

what if anything can be done to defend american citizens? let's ask former assistant secretary of homeland security who joins us from d.c. thanks for being with us this evening. >> thank you, judge. great to be here. >> judge jeanine: thank you. we made some inroads. you know, we have taken out some of the leaders. we have destroyed some of their camps but it appears that the front is a little different now and that we now are are seeing attacks in open areas like a couple of years ago, times square and now in boston at the soft targets. what do you you see happening now? >> clear early there is a trend on this. i mean we have seen this all along since we started the department of homeland security. the move away from hard targets where we put a lot of resources into the softer less protected targets because they are so ubiquitous across the united states. >> judge jeanine: how do we

protect in an open free society where people can walk around in the country and if you are not the a courthouse where there is a metal detector and not some where where there is all kinds of surveillance? what do we do? >> let's be honest, we he can't protect anything more can we afford to. we have to manage the risk around protection. look at them, let's say way the way since 9/11. combine good intelligence with good law enforcement and prevention and good protection against the things that we think we have the highest value around and have to be able to accept the risk that we just can't protect everything. >> have we been concentrating too much on cells as opposed to individuals? one of the first things we heard is we didn't hear any chatter. there might not have been chatter with someone like the two individuals.

>> certainly on intel side a lot of evidence that al-qaeda and other groups as has been discussed earlier has been looking for folks with clean skin and below the radar screen that might be inspired to act on their own without a lot of target and go for it. what we look for in the future to occur is similar types of attacks. low level, i'm not talking about, any loss of that is acceptable. i think we adequately protected the targets. look at the trend going. individually self-radicalized and the lone actors probably inspired to attack similar types of targets. maybe not the boston marathon. maybe less protected targets in the future. there are things we can do for that. i believe it is important to state that while we can't protect everything we certainly can do a lot of things to protect what we have out there. >> judge jeanine: and, of course, we rely on the public

if you see something say something. robert -- >> if i could mention that. pardon me one second. >> judge jeanine: coming up you against a hard break. go ahead. >> a very important part. three legs to the stool here. the government and private sector which is is a significant component because of the technologies throughout. i happen to sit on a company with great sec followings out there and the civilian population. to see something and say something is critical for us to be able to do this. >> judge jeanine: couldn't agree with you more. thanks for being with us this evening. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: you have seen up close and personal what law enforcement does every day. the background not as dramatic. the attention not as wide. men and women in the danger zone happens every day in america. the beat they walk is a battle field where the fight between good and evil unfolds. scenarios deadly. they are the one line that separates a civil society from a barbaric one.

they bring order where those who seek to wreak havoc want anarchy. cops put their lives on the line with little or no appreciation. they represent everything that is good about us. when you go to sleep tonight understand it is because of them. that was good. you had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target. let's do it again -- watch me. ♪ [ male announcer ] pass down something he will be grateful for. the rdable midsi passat. and you'll be grateful right now during springtoberfest where you can lease one of four different volkswagen models for under $200 a month. that's the power of german engineering. constipated? yeah. mm. some laxatives like dulcolax can cause cramps. but phillips' caplets don't. they have magnesium. for effective relief of occasional constipation. thanks. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life.

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