>> who cares. struck by a duck. >> obama care. >> this is a simple, strong, good thing. >> there is remarket. >> they have my cell phone, my e-mail address. >> they need to be pushed to a new way of looking at things. >> what will be the new way government or free market? what happens when they conflict? >> are you still there? >> i hope so. i need to run to treat my dog. will that be legal? >> free medicine.

that's our show tonight. >> no and now john stossel. >> parts of our healthcare delivery system need fixing. they are blockd from their jobs they get health insurance from their jobs. no one knows how much things cost even doctors don't know. as a result things cost more. obama care doesn't address those problems. it is supposed to solve all kinds of other problems. >> you have turned, mr. president, the right of every american that has access to decent healthcare into reality for the first time in american history. >> yipee. >> obama care promises to help the uninsured and lower costs. maybe it will. it is early yet. i am skeptical obama care is creating new problems. orthopedic surgeon john berasa.

he is a u.s. senator. waste that giant stauy -- what' giant stack of parp. >> this is the red tape pou tower. these are the regulations that have come out so far. there's over0,000 pages. awend you and i thought the healthcare law 2,000 pages was too long. the secretary of health and human services will write the rules and regulations. this is just the first part of the doctors and nurses and hospitals and patients and insurance companies all have to comply with under the president's healthcare law. >> that's the first part more to come. but what about the go, the uninsured, 40 million, 50, 20, whatever it is. the normal goal. get some insurance. >> the president used coverage

instead of the word care because of the debate. just because you have a medicaid card which is the way the president wants to solve this doesn't mean you can actually get care. what people wanted was the care they need from a doctor they choose at lower costs. but the president has failed in terms of trying to bring the costs down. remember he said by the end of his first term they would see premiums drop about 200,000 dollars per family per year. no one has seen that. if you go to a town hall mng and askple how many think they are paying more for healthcare under the president's healthcare law all of the hands go up. you ask do you think the quality and availability of your care will be better, nobody thinks that. even kathleen seb baell why you finally admitted that under the healthcare law there would be winners as well as losers. many more people now believe they are going to be losers under the healthcare law.

>> the costs are already going up accordling to reports claims costs are up 32 percent. i never understood how you could have it cover more people and have it cost less. >> the president has compounded the problem under the government mandates that you have to buy government approved insurance which isn't necessarily the insurance that you think works for you and your family in terms of what you want or need or can afford. you have to buy a very expensive level of coverage because it has to cover so many things. many of them are thing aren't necessarily right for you or your family. >> every policy must cover preventative care, mammograms, colon no, sir copy breast-feeding support and counsel elling. everybody has to pay for that even if you don't want it. >> everybody has to pay for government mandated insurance which has a long list of things they have to cover. of course the rates are going to

go up if you have to buy a lot of things that you don't want. >> what would you do about the poor. without government won't the poor suffer? >> we need to make sure i wanted to focus on getting rates of insurance down so people could get the care they need from a doctor they choose at lower costs. i don't think it helps any one when the cost of care and the cost of insurance continues to go up under the president's healthcare law. >> the other problem you are exempt if you run a business and you have fewer than 50 employees. i hear businesses saying i am not going to expand. i have 49 workers that's it. >> the federal reserve said one of the big drags on the econo in this country, the reason people aren't expanding or businesses aren't expanding people aren't being hired is because of the uncertainty as well as the mandates in the healthcare law. part of it is the number of 50 employees or fewer they are not

hiring people into those businesses. the other is in terms of full-time for part-time plies. one of the largest theater movie chains in the country have said for all of the folks paid by the hour they are going to be part-time workers only which will be anything less than 30 hours because businesses aren't mandated to kor part-time workers but therman dated to cover the full-time workers. you see in businesses and we have talked to some where they say we have a opening instead of one full-time person we are going to hire two-part time workers because of the healthcare law. the healthcare law is dragging down our economy making it harder for people to find full-time work. >> thank you senator barrasso. all of these laws have unintended consequences. >> thank you, john. >> look at that big 7 foot pile again. there it is.

and the secretary shall continue to write new rules. s they will grow. >> what about the american healthcare needs less government and more free market. pediatrician steve hour bock says that's wrong we need more obama care doesn't go far enough to protect people. >> sure. what we need is healthcare for all americans, healthcare access for all americans. the way too achieve that would be true universal health insurance through a single payer healthcare system. >> like canada and britain has. >> all of the western industrialized countries democratic countries not just western europe, japan, taiwan, germany folks have access to choose the doctors they want to go to, choose the hospital or what clinic they want to go to.

we call for 676. >> you say we t group. it's a moral duty. >> we believe and i think many believe most americans believe that healthcare is a human right it is one of those things that you live in america all healthcare insurance, everybody wants insuranwould have insuran automatically. >> it sounds good. >> canada has a universal healthcare system they have people waiting 2-3 years for a primary care doctor. the problem is in canada for example you have to wait 6-9 months for a cat scan. there's no place i can't get you a cat scan in an hour in america. we caught mary lehey one of the former medical executives from canada sneaking across the border to come to mayo clinic which is for cash.

why is it? it sounds good they have access to all of the care but social e socialized systems don't produce the goods to have quality medical care. >> you heard of the soviet union it didn't work that well. >> we are talking germany and canada and these ant tech doidot hold up unless you look at statistics. there's not a net flow of folks crossing the border into the united states. americans want to get their drugs from the canada side because they are so much less expensive. >> the drug companies for example the same multi national drug companies the same drug products are less expensive in any other of the democracies in the world half of the price in

of the price in new zealand. if you go there canadians support their system. they don't want the american -- >> they support ocean lied medicine. >> i can't really speak to the polls but i can tell you this. it is not just anecdotes when you have people in charge of a cat scan, people who are in canada they don't get the studies. >> what do you do about the poor? >> the problem with the poor is that everything is priced out of everybody's range. it's not just about the poor. i have trouble affording health insurance. it's because government regulations, regulations are killing us. they are making everything so expensive. they are putting hospitals out of business. hospitals cannot afford the penalties of not being in compliance with the regulation. the answer to the poor is we

need to get the costs down. i was a doctor on the mexican border. people would come across the border legally and illegal. the fruit pickers the vegetable pickers paid cash for their healthcare. their wages were enough to afford every day healthcare. the first answer is to get the costs down by de regulating things. >> you think people were dying. >> we agree the unit cost per visit per task per operation are too high. if you -- >> it's bad and i am too old. >> the costs are higher in the united states than they are in countries. all these other countries who had universal systems free market works for many things,

supply and demand works for anything. it doesn't work for healthcare. it actually is. >> patients can control costs free market can control costs when they choose cost and value. >> but when you get sick you are not going around checking the prices. >> the way you are not able to. the way free markets work you don't have to make decisions when you get sick. when your car breaks down you know which is a good mechanic. word gets out which are the good hospitals and doctors. everybody says healthcare is special but every field is special and different and the market works. >> it sounds nice. it is not how healthcare works. what is funny it's the moral

thing to do. it turns out that's also how the healthcare works you know where recently? taiwan. went from private to short. they realized it was hurting their people and it was bad for their business and they wanted universal single pay. >> took soviet union 70 years to breakdown. >> we are not talking about communists. >> you get the last word. look at the cancer death rate in europe verses america. we do much better our coutcomes are much better. >> much worse. >> no. >> thank you. we are out of time. koching up big government gets in the way of me getting answers about questions about my dog.

really? the new government rule that will make you feel sorry for your doctor. sofa... desk...

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people like you or filling out forms. doctors say they spend much too much of their time doing paperwork not healing people just handling insurance. that's a terrible waste and it's about to get much worse. congressman, what do you mean? >> what will occur the federal government has imposed new regulations which means new codes for doctors to bill out when a patient comes to see them. right now there are about 13,000 codes. >> that's the book i have. >> that's the book. >> 13,000 codes. >> they define what happened to the patient and why they are there. >> so they can be reimburseed by medicare and medicaid. >> why so many? >> the federal government says there needs to be more. there will be now 140,000 of these codes for doctors to bill

out. they are very specific. 140,000. >> going from 13,000 to 140,000. >> it is already horrible tiny print here. none of these codes help make a patient better or healthier. they are very expensive. average practitioner will cost the doctor 80,000 dollars to implement the new federal code procedure. if you have a bigger practice let's say there's 5-10 doctors. about 250,000 dollars for the doctor to implement the code so when the patient comes in the doctor can't check bitten by a dog any more. united to say bitten by a dalmation, a doberman, a pit bull, a chihuahua. you have to be very specific. if you mess up, if you make

mistake or do it on purpose you will in violation of federal law, you won't get reimbursed. >> already under the existing code. >> you have a code for if you are bitten by a duck. >> a different code means you have been struck by a duck. >> who cares? >> the duck doesn't care and neither should the patient or the doctor. you want to treat the injury. >> injured in a chicken coup, fallen in an art gallery. we ask health and human services why so many, they didn't get back to us. not surprising. >> but when i read this will help plan for the future. you ship information to another doctor, he knows if you walked into a pole or if you are a repeat pole walker into. that may make a difference in how he treats people. >> maybe, maybe not.

does the federal government need to get all of the detail in to just keep records at this g expense. i don't believe they do. >> this is the old book. the new one will be 5 or almost 10 times as big. they are not just stupid. they must have a reason to do this. >> they are regulating. we have to understand that when regulators go to work and they meet around these big old tables and drink lattes they say who should we regulate today? why don't we regulate the medical industry more and have doctors have specific codes that don't treat a patient but that give information about patients. regulators regulate. that's what the law allows them to do. >> doctors are just meekly

following these rules. >> if youant to get paid or not be in violation of federal law. rather than expanding a practice hiring associates or someone else on the feder camedical sta hire someone to keep statistics for you. the federal government shows where you can take courses to know how to implement the new code and give us other examples. nine different codes for being injured by a turkey. >> that is correct. whether you run into a turkey or the turkey runs into you, you are pecked by the turkey or you are bitten by a turkey. there's a difference between being pecked and being bitten. >> they have nine codes for turkeys. >> they have about 5 codes for basketball. you get hit by a basketball or you are a second offend error third offender by a basketball. or do you have a -- i don't know what the medical term is, a

condition where you are alter being hit by a basketball. doctors have to figure this out, put the number in, the indig get number, to check that number to make sure they have -- >> codes are even long. w 6161 xa. they don't memorize this stuff. >> no, they have a code book. they are going to get one a lot bigger than that. they have to look it up under the code book. i don't know. do you look under turkey? >> you are the king of all congress. >> i think what the regulators and regulations need to make some sense. what is the purpose? what is the goal? of course doctors need to be accurate in their diagnosis but do they need to go through this much detail to get information to the federal government? i don't think they do. >> and just to be clear this is not part of obama care. this was hipaa passed under

bush, the rules are being increased under obama care. but this is why we patients also have to fill out more forms when we go to the doctor. >> this is not a new thing. just a new code. code 10 is the new one. we have had nine revisions, expansions of the law. this is the tenth code book that maybe has gone a little too far in treating the american sick patients by the doctor filling out the form. >> the bureaucrats always want more. thank you congressman cole for bringing this to my attention. coming up doctors who don't hide the cost of healthcare behind government codes and the result is cheaper medicine and happier patients and happier doctors, too. that's next. at tyco integrated security, we consider ourselves business optimizers.

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>> although government and bureaucratic insurance companies dominate insurance and healthcare there are tiny areas where the free market rules because the patient pays directly. our special correspondent kennedy visited a cosmetic dermatologist and lay sick eye surgeon. >> we have to provide excellent quality service to be competitive because our patients who are safe paying in the free market they don't want to wait an hour to see your doctor. >> one of the benefits for not having to go through insurance companies. >> enormous amount of paperwork that is required before and after we don't have all of the departments dedicated to insurance companies. >> since he competes against other lay sick surgeons he needs to have the best equipment. >> the patients are quite savvy. it's not the advancement of a

second laser they are going to leave. it's a google away. >> when i graduated from residency we had one laser one filler botox wasn't approved. this is just in the last 15 years we have all of these products. >> she must have the latest equipment to attract and maintain customers. >> i happen to have 14 different lasers i bought them all. there were new tightening lasers. >> to keep patients both of these are accessible. >> they have my cell phone my e-mail address and i try to be accessible at all times. >> we have office hours until saturday. we have doctors available 24/7. we have to be great to be competitive. >> it sounds nice. most of you don't have such good care or they don't make themselves available that many

hours. >> when is the last time you high fived your doctor? >> this is lac lasix surgery th doesn't take care of the big stuff. >> this is elective stuff. they find a way to pay for it. this free market system this model i wish it were applied to other areas of medicine. the doctors have to be invested in their customers. they show appreciation by going back continuously. >> you look for customer views you look at someone's academic history. >> how do you pay for it? >> you are supposed to have insurance for catastrophes like car surgeries. iven insurance wasn't designed to pay 80 percent of everything you might stumble upon through out

the year. i asked doctor dave i spent a year without health insurance i have celiac disease and couldn't get it. when i didn't have insurance i d had to go to the doctors and say what will you charge me since i am outside of the system. >> the doctor gave you a discount? >> dr. dave said her father who can pay for it will pay in full people who can't pay a little bit you pay a little bit. if they can't pay you help them out. >> in this area of free market what's happened to the prices is interesting. quality and lace sicks surgery keeps improving and prices have come down 29 percent. >> when you have that sort of service it makes it better. cosmetic services have only gone up by 50 percent.

medical services have gone up by 108 percent when compared to one another. >> free market works wonders. thank you, kennedy. the market will pay for elective surgery but what about the important stuff heart surgery. can we bring them back to that? yes, we can. i will show you an oklahoma surgery center where that hams as prices are much lower. when our little girl was born, we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) designed for your most precious cargo. (girl) what? (announcer) the all-new subaru forester. (announcer) designed for your most precious cargo.

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♪ >> you want to escape america's dominated healthcare and save money. it's not hard. just leave the country. go to the philippines. >> it's the brilliance that makes filipino doctors popular

it's how they treat their patients. >> go to columbia. >> i will take you to the airport he will take you to the hotel. once we take care of the medical part we can pamper you. >> china. >> shanghai is also an outstanding destination for affordable high quality healthcare services. come to china for my operation was the best decision i could have made. >> this is called medical tourism. in some places you can get medical treech for much less than it costs in america. more than a million left the country to get cheaper treatment. why do they have to leave the country? can't me find something similar? >> dr. keith smith found a hospital that charges much less. how? >> we own our facility as physicians. by virtue of the arrangement we

have taken out the greedy not for profit hospital. >> for the most part your customers your patients pay themselves or are insured by a company that self insurance that makes for a different relationship? >> yes. we put our prices on-line the first patient that showed up interestingly were the madians. the patients that come to oo us now the phattest growing part of the business is the employers pay for their care directly out of medical expenses. >> they have a clip about your surgery center. watch this. >> he was about to undergo a difficult procedure to reduce more dis. what makes it so much to 2,750

dollars is posted on-line. we decided we don't have healthcare because there is a lot of people that benefits from dismondayest tee and pricing. hopefully i wouldn't attract more business. also a price war that could bring prices to a level that people would reevaluate their need for insurance all together and certainly reevaluate the roll of government in healthcare. >> the price sevenses are see anoth anoth enormous. he says it is a total price of 585,000 dollars. bill from integrity 33,000. 18.95. they posted a surgery center and baptist medical center which is

the epitome as a hospital. they can perform twice as many singles to do for the same day we hospital, that's the pig local hospital. they work for you and the popt. they don't need>> 5,000 verses 30,000. a lot of the ints caps they drive them to put our praises on-line is to expose their children. they come to you they pay it out of their own pocket and mill come out of head. like i say the pure people that are start of the success spended

plan. they are through consumers in the car met. i'm on medicare they don't then ask me what tomorrows across. her employer wade for the whole thing. there were only 6, 8, 10 times heyed. it was so hap zee per going to forget these up. in many states. there's a lay called the taun law you have to term what it goes deeded it's old fashion pat pro dexalism. >> one thing if you are posting

yours the popt r hospital, too, is coming down. >> i get between 5 and 7 e-mails eerie week were patients that were going do come. we are saving money all over the country and we are not even doing the surgeries we are here. >> right. >> you have machine students and they want more. we will be able to do a lot more surgery than we are doing now. that's going to be needed. dru dr. skooet smith. how will p effect me and my dog.

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♪ >> this is my dog luca. he has medical and psychological issues that i would like to consult a veterinarian about. but what if i don't want to go to the vet in what if i don't live near a vet? can i consult one on the internet? maybe someone like ron hines. >> he is a 69-year-old veteran

naturian and ph d in biology. he has been on the internet for 10 years helping people across the country and around the world. some don't have access to veterinarian. >> that was a video from the institute of justice. i am glad learned about ron. i am going to go on the computer ask questions via e-mail. he isn't answering questions any more. why not? let's ask him. he joins us via skype. that's why the head phones from texas. his volunteer lawyer from the institute for justice jeff rose is in the studio. dr. hines, why did you stop giving on-line advice? >> i had to, john. i got a letter almost exactly a year ago that what i was doing was criminal to please stop immediately so i did. >> letter from whom?

>> your volunteer lawyer is from the institute of justice. they defend people like ron. what is this about? >> the fact that a veterinarian should be able to give advice and it shouldn't be illegal. fist amendment right to free speech and power of occupation. >> what laws is he violating? >> texas says a vet can't give vet advice unless a vet has examined the animal in person once he can't because the animals he helps are all over the world. >> ron, you do this because you used to have a practice but you have back problems so you wanted to do it by telephone or internet? >> yes. seemed like an excellent way of continuing to do the work i love. i can't do it physically but there's nothing i can't do from

the key board. >> any complaints but? >> not to my knowledge. >> any complaints? >> not at all. >> there's no allegation that he harmed any animals. a dog can be in the parking lot you don't have to touch the dog but it has to be there. >> it has to be an in person evaluation. in 95 texas adopted this law verbatim from the veterinarian association which in 2003 they said there's some crisis about pets. the internet made it possible to get information cheaply, better, faster from anywhere in the world. that a crisis for vets not pet owners. >> you agree they are trying to

put you out of business. >> i believe so, john. >> how did you make money? >> i never make much money. i live on social security. i did this for love. i have very minimal needs. >> but you charged some people a flat fee to have a lot of e-mail contact with them? >> i do. some people i charged most i don't. >> 50 bucks? >> yes. >> i will spend 50 bucks. luca eats mud in the park? he has early stage kidney disease. >> well, the mud is a different issue. you can deal with that separately but the kidneys are more important. >> he's on a special diet for that, that's all i am willing to do. >> people send me their pet's blood work, i look over it. i look over x-rays and try to use the experience of 50 years to let them know what their options might be.

i don't cure animals over the internet but i try to tell them what i would do if it were my dog. >> what would you do if your dog ate mud? >> i would be sure that it was clean mud. >> it's central park i have no control over that he's running around he's off leash i like that. he eats i call him he doesn't come then. he likes the mud more than me. >> i don't think the mud is going to hurt him. keep him on a monthly worm and heart worm preventative he's going to be just fine. >> you wanted to make a point. >> the point i wanted to make is ron exercise of free speech is dangerously criminal. as his lawyer i almost want to tell him to stop. we are going to defend the free speech all of the way to the supreme court if it's all it takes. >> thank you jeff and ron. how the american government began healthcare while at the same time funneled money to me and my dad.

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♪ john: why don't we have free-market health care in am >> why don't we have free healthcare in america? all markets are different, special. america's free market healthcare began to die during world war ii when our government imposed page

and price control. at fst the compad stability we don't have to worry about price competition and workers asking for raises. they had less flexibility and couldn't attract better workers by offering them more pay. companies got around the rule as companies usually do. instead of raises they gave people like you giving health insurance better tablgs payer than you yourself. my father at the time was a poor immigrant who supported himself selling to you wells to sears roebuck. if they addingal view to a property they could. we came up p your name on it. we got name howls, and i got this house i grew up in instead

of price control. employer bounced person. america changed jobs all of the time. it tilled some of the kaet tear market. maybe we will be lie been taw there's one place that they do vvr,>> ct scan laparoscopy had that done i was pregnant for bailey. >>en hours, 7 day the a speak. i see that in the fasht's knee we can have it scheduled within a week. >> you have to work orbly ow

just to. >> man my clients will come here with their pets and adds they were laefing when next time i get sick i don't want to go to the we go layer clpts. >> their that market? just for you. a lot of people are moving in: the first independent clinic opened in 1993. operated about a thousand private for profit clinics with competitions a lot the premarket will win and consumers win. that's our show john stossel. see you next time. for

harris falker. huckabee starts now. >> tonight on huckabee. >> we they were not involve would. america took my kids away from me. >> the bomber's mother america. investigators say they had plans to set off bomb in times square. were there warning signs that friendly and social johar, brainwashed by tamerlan. >> and why are democrats bailing out of the senate? >> inside of the courtroom of the abortion murder trial of dr. gosnel . a tribute to legendary