i'll bill o'reilly. remember the spin stops right here because we are definitely here because we are definitely welcome to hannity. tonight there is fresh fallout from the irs enemies list targeting conservatives. earlier today, lawmakers on capitol hill grilled the top official at the tax agency ousted commissioner steve miller during a firey hearing. now, there was several bomb shell revealations for starters during his testimony today miller admitted that the apology made last week by irs lawyer lois learner was staged. watch this. >> do you know miss celia roady a member of the advisory council on tax exempt and government entities? >> i do. >> was her question to ms. learner about targeting conservative groups planned in advance? >> i believe that we talked about that, yes.

>> no, miller also acknowledged that the irs knew about the scandal in may of last year. since you were not able to watch owl of today's testimony here are some of the highlights. >> we were told no such targeting was happening. that isn't being misled. that is lying. >> this is very chilling for the american people. i know that where you are at and you are going to -- you are resigning and walking away from it. but you this is not going to go pandora's box opened and i don't know he if we can get the lid back on it. >> do you believe it is illegal for employees of the irs to create lists to target individual groups and citizens in this country? >> i think the treasury inspector general indicated that it might not be but you other hes will be able to tell that. >> what do you believe? >> i don't believe it is. >> i am really concerned. i got to tell you, where you are sitting, you should be outraged but you are not.

and the american people should be outraged and they. i'm not arguing that the list was bad and the list was conservative based. >> i'm going to reclaim my time on this. then i would sea it is targeted. you can't have that both ways. that is targeting and there is 16 times in the report that says that there was targeting. >> this is a problem that the irs being too large. too powerful. too intrusive and too abusive of honest hard working taxpayers. >> this is a huge blow to the feat and trust the american people have in their government. is there any limit to the the scope of where you folks can go. >> this is wrong to abuse the tax system. this screams out for tax reform, does it not? >> he think it is an area ripe for redefinition and reform, yes, sir. >> do you want to know where a lot of this comes from? look at senator l levin's lett. he specifically mentioned a bunch of the groups that you

all targeted. you all were doing what democratic senators were asking. >> i think the american people have seen what is going on in the government. this is an overreach and outrage for all of america. i yield back. >> all right. >> sean: we now have more questions than answers including the new revealation that sarah hall ingram the official in charge of the irs tax exempt organizations office when the scandals taking place is now head of the irs obama care implementation office. joining me, two of the lawmakers who participated in the heated hearing. >> good to be with. >> ms. ingram was in charge at the time. do you think it is appropriate she is in charge of the implementation of obama care? >> as a matter of fact, that is not true. she actually left that office six months prior to even subordinates knowing what took place there so she wasn't in

the office when the subordinates were informed. >> sean: wasn't she there between 2009 and 2012? >> she left six months prior to the subordinates knowing that this actually took place. >> sean: we knew a couple of years ago and what we learned in the last couple of days is that they did know at the time she was there. >> i think you have to check your facts. she left the office six months prior to the subordinates showing. >> sean: my understanding is she did know. >> that is my understanding as well. she was there during the time that the abusive practice was being perpetrated. we have to pinpoint and get more information about what her role was in all of this, no question about it. because this whole idea about the irs getting expansionive powers under obama care is deeply troubling in light of what we know now. >> sean: you showed a tape when you had your opportunity to speak today, congressman and

you showed a tape of douglas shulman the irs commissioner answering the question about whether or not they were targeting groups. targeting groups. tell

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three years. it was about 19 months when things were going back and forth for too long. >> sean: i stand corrected. i apologize. tell us what happened in your case? >> well, we applied for a 501-c-4. family talk is on 1100 stations around the country and we are all over the internet and so we started the organization and its purpose is very much the same as what i have is done for over 30 years having to do with family life and parenting and so on. and we applied for the 501 c 4. we already had a c 3 and aplead for a c 4 and it went on and on and on o the ground. and finally our lawyer called to find out what the delay was and the woman that we talked to, a woman named medley, said we don't think that we going to approve be your application and

he said why not? and she said well, because you are a right wing organization and you are political and you have been critical of the president and we don't think that you give other people an opportunity to express their views and besides that, she said, you are not educational. well, you know, sean, i have a phd, an earned p h hd from the university of southern, california. pediatricsfessor of speedat for 14 years there at u is sc. i have done 8,000 radio programs and written 80 books and yet our program is not educational and this was the reason she he gave. she then said to my attorney well, do you want to rewrite your application and resubmit it and he said no, we will just have to litigate. and about 8 day 8 days later ty gave us the 501 c 4.

they were going everything they could to stop us. >> sean: one of the things that concerns me the most is this was hidden from voters before the election. what is that 19 month period we are talking about? >> well, part of that was when we were providing information, the data and answering questions that i have is never been asked before when i was at focus on the family we have a 501 c 3 and 501 c 4. no one ever asked what are your opinions and how will be they expressed and what are you trying to accomplish by expressing your opinions. they really didn't want me to deal with public policy issues. and that is why they gave us a hard time. so it was 19 months from beginning to when we he finally got it -- when we finally got it, i think about three weeks ago. >> sean: amazing. there is a headline story on

drudge tonight that there was a prolife group that was asked about the content of their are prayers. what is your reaction to that? >> i think that is what is behind all this. there really is an effort to silence and to keep especially conservative christian organizations and tea party types of organizations from having a voice. from being heard. and so they harass, they intimidate, they do whatever they can to keep you off the air. and i'm thankful that we have got it now but we had to wait for it a long time. >> sean: wait for it before the election. very interesting time frame i think in all of this. and you got it after the election. what a shocker. dr. james dobson -- >> yeah, what a shocker. >> sean: go ahead. >> i'm sorry. what is concerning us now is the linkage between the obama care and the irs because they

know our money and they know our bodies and that is very frightening to a lot of people. >> sean: i'm one of them. good to see you, dr. dobson. welcome back. >> thank you, my friend. >> sean: coming up next on "hannity." >> i can assure you that i certainly did not know anything about the ig report before the ig report had been leaked through press -- through the press. >> sean: that answer from president barack obama left the door open to the possibility for the white house involvement not the irs scandal. when we come back, charles krauthammer will be here to explain why he thinks that could be the fatal moment of the obama presidency. and more on the explosive hearing. bob beckel and monica crowley hi, i'm terry and i have diabetic nerve pain. i worked a patrol unit for 17 years in the city of baltimore. when i first started experiencing the pain,

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can you assure the american people that nobody in the white house knew about the agency's actions before your council's office found out and april 22nd? and do you think you should have learned about it before you learned about it from news reports as you said last friday? >> let me make sure that i answer a specific question. i can assure you that i certainly did not know anything about the i.g. report before the i.g. report had been leaked through press -- through the press. >> sean: that was president obama in the rose garden yesterday dodging a reporter's question on what the white house knew about the irs targeting scandal. my next guest says that the answer could be fatal for the obama presidency. joining me he to help explain, syndicated columnist and fox news contributor charles

krauthammer. why fatal? >> the irs scandal is the one scandal that people have a visceral sense about. it is the one institution beside the military that can do you the most harm. it can wreck your life and thousand it has to be treat heed with utmost respect because they have to show integrity. and the fact that it could be deliberately targeting people on the right is a violation that everybody left to right understands is utterly inexcusable. it is the one that has the most' peel. there is no indication that the president knew about this about you you if there is any indication that there were people in the white house who knew, who orchestrated, encouraged or are whatever then it can be a fatal problem. i'm not saying this is watergate but i would point out that the second article of impeachment in watergate was abuse of the irs. benghazi is a complicated story. the one about ap, people are going to argue you need to have

financial security but on this there is no argument anywhere and with the white house better be insulated and you will note that the president asked about what did the white house know, responded only i certainly didn't know and talked about the ig report. and we learned today that the news about this investigation had gone last year reached the treasury department in june of last year before the election. general counsel and the deputy secretary. presidential appointees. we have no idea if it went beyond and thi. we also learned that the the general counsel learned about this three weeks ago and we are asked to believe that he told no one. >> sean: do you believe it? >> he don't know. all i'm saying, it is a big question hanging over he everyone. and then pfeifer was asked about this on another network and used a curious word.

he said we didn't know about this until three weeks ago, meaning when the general counsel did. is he just using a generic "we" or does he mean not omero the general counsel, also the communications office and others. if so, why was it concealed from the american people? all i'm saying there are questions out there and the one issue that can fell a presidency is the corruption of the irs coming from on high. we have no idea if it was from on high but i'm a little skeptical of the idea that somehow a bunch of gs-11s in cincinnati are the heart of the great left wing conspiracy in america. >> lanny davis suggested if obama's white house counsel new for days, week and didn't tell the president, the person in this case a woman, be fired. do you agree with that? >> absolutely. i think that is a dereliction of duty the men we heard about this -- the minute we heard about this scandal we knew it was really bad news and the

general counsel obviously knew that as well. it he sit on it? did he let anybody know? i don't know. >> sean: is there a time table problem when shulman testified there is absolutely no targeting when in fact we now know and learn today that when said that they knew otherwise? >> i mean the testimony he gave today was completely absurd. >> sean: miller versus shulman i'm saying. shulman testified in march of 2012 there was no targeting. >> that is demonstrably untrue. he has to come up there and explain. >> sean: more questions than answers. why do you think benghazi is not as big an issue? i have more questions on that as well. >> if you are looking at this from the scope of this, the ultimate importance for the nation, benghazi is far more important. the first assassination of an

ambassador in three decades. we have only had six in our entire history. the questions of the underlying derelictions of duty, the neglect of the warnings. the lack of security. and what happened during the attack the abandonment of americans in trouble. that is the most serious issue. i think the reason it doesn't have that much salience it is a complicated issue and the press has shown no interest in this until it is forced into it. i think just in terms of its effect it may not be as important political effect but in terms of the importance to the nation it should be he number one. >> sean: don't you want to know why president obama went to sleep and didn't ask for updates? >> those are the underlying issues that the left and the administration are explaining away as simply a turf war between state and cia in drafting the cover story, the fable. the point is it wasn't a turf war.

it was a war over who would be accountable for the real serious underlying issue, the dereliction of the duty and neglect at the best. >> sean: charles krauthammer, good to see you. have is a great weekend. >> pleasure. >> sean: coming up next tonight on "hannity." >> the broader question here, is this still america? >> sean: that question summed up today's house hearings about the ired s list targeting conservatives. bob beckel and monica you youly here to respond to the powerful question coming up next. later, she was kidnapped and held hostage by somali pirates for 93 days. jessica buchanan is here to share her incredible story when she was rescued by seal team six members. log on to the special companion site hannity live @ foxnews.com. follow the live show and always share your thoughts on what you think. hannity live.fox

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we'll help you get there. >> sean: welcome back be to hannity. earlier during the heated house hearing about the irs enemies list tex congressman cited a specific example of who it has affected and detailed what a tea party group from his state has gone through result. years of questioning from the atf, the fbi and others. >> this is a a woman who had never been audited by the ir sunday or any of the agencies until she applied to you for tax exempt status for her tea party. so the broader question here, is this still america? is this government so drunk on power that it would turn its full force, its full might to

harass and intimidate and threaten an average american who only wants her voice and their voices heard? >> sean: pretty powerful. here with reaction the five cohost bob beckel. radio talk show host and fox news contributor bob beckel. >> monica crowley but you that is okay. i look a little bit like bob. >> sean: you do. it is friday. i had a busy week. here is george bush as president. george soros all go through this treatment. >> i can't believe you happy you are. you really got the president he on a scandal. this is not a scandal. this is the first time i have seen an administration admit they were aid 80s. a lot of -- idiots. a lot of mismanagement. shouldn't have happend. the sadded story about one of the constituents, this happened

to me back in the '70s when the right wing took on me and the irs so there. >> we had a series of laws passed to prevent exactly this from happening. the use of the most feared agency in the u.s. government and feared with good reason because the power to tax is the power to destroy. you are telling me, bob, if it situation were reversed and you had black groups and hispanic groups and women's groups and gay groups targeted by the irs, singled out and harassed in this kind of systematic fashion you would have no problem with it? >> i would be screaming my head off. obama has been beat every step of the way. andy hasn't -- look at hannity. he hasn't been happier than the entire week than he is now. >> sean: i haven't said a word. >> i have been watching you. >> it is not the republicans getting the obama administration on this. it is the obama administration getting themselves on this. you don't go down this road and not expect to be caught. >> there was a lot of screwups.

this is the worst of the issues by far. benghazi is going to be taken care of but the irs is going to have things. and the ap was ridiculous. it was about national security. >> sean: you agreed benghazi they lied and covered up. >> i said they mismanaged and did not tell all of the story they should have told when they told it. they should have had the e-mails out a week ago. >> sean: they had it right and it evolve into a lie. >> who dehe sided to send susan wright out there. susan rice rather. the most important point is who ordered the standdown of troops? >> sean: would you like to know where president obama was after he was informed about an attack on the consulate and didn't have contact be with pa panettr hillary?

>> this was about a bunch of people who didn't do their job the way they should have done it. bad communication and they are paying the price for it. >> sean: when americans are arend attack wouldn't you like to know a president protects them? >> yes. and there are so many unanswered questions here. i disagree with you. the benghazi scandal is the biggest of all because there were four dead americans. the commander in chief and secretary of state were unaccounted for that night. who came up with the fiction of the video and why. was there a bigger agenda and that is why esettled on the video as the explanation. the irs scandal is the most politically to toxic. >> during george bush administration 50 consulates were attacked and nine americans died and they had one hearing on capitol hill. nine people died under george bush's watch.

did anybody say anything about it? of course, not. >> sean: did american people have the right to know why the requests for security were denied and why they weren't prodebted when they were under fire and why an elaborate lie was manufactured? >> the request for security by the a ambassador was target. >> we have right to know and we find out. it going to be all over. >> there is one big, big point and i don't think it will be over. there is one big point about all of this which is this is what you get when you have an ideology of control operating. look at the history of communist and socialist societies you get the same pattern. lies. corruption. the demonizing and targeting of political embassies. >> you are right. >> the hypocrisy and surveillance. >> do you think this is a communist country? >> no, i'm saying the ideology

of control. >> sean: do you think they are afraid to sea islamic terrorism? >> they are on the record as sanitizing the government documents. the fbi and cia taking all of the language out. >> smile on, brother. smile on. >> a young woman taken hostage by somali pirates and seal team six to the rescue 93 [ shapiro ] at legalzoom, you can take care of virtually all your imptant legal matters in just minutes. protect youramily... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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>> sean: imagine dedicating your life to helping people thousands of miles from home only to be suddenly taken hostage by the very same people. that is the horrifying situation one young american woman found herself in when she came face to face with somali pirates. jessica buchanan moved to war torn somalia with her husband to work with a danish nonprofit

group. the area was extremely dangerous. years of fighting left the area covered in unexploded land mines and ieds. jess he caucuses' work focused on -- jessica's work focused on trying to protect the local children from those dangers. she was traveling by car with a danic colleague when they were overtaken by h heavily armed somali pirates. suddenly she found herself a hostage enduring months of starvation and terror. back home, friends and family could only pray as jessica's health declined. >> our church the former people from the school, our bible study here, we have just been praying for her a lot. >> sean: then came january 25, 2012, the night of the president's state of the union address. >> mr. speaker, the president

of the united states. >> on the way in to the speech obama had a wink and message for secretary of defense leon panetta. >> good job tonight. >> hours earlier a team of navy seals from seal team six had boarded a c 130 aircraft in total darkness. they parachuted into the somali night and sighently made their way to jessica on foot. instantly the night erupt inside gunfear as the kidnappers and seals exchanged shots. when the fierce firefight was over, all nine somali pirates were dead and jessica and her colleague were safe. they were rushed to blackhawk helicopters and whisked away to freedom. in washington obama finished state of the union address and called jessica's father. he said she has been rescued by the seal team and is on her way home. jessica and her husband eric have moved back to the united states and written a book about

the ordeal called impossible odds. they join me now. welcome home. >> thank you very much. >> sean: nice to meet you. versus a great honor. eric, nice to meet you, sir. >> thank you. >> sean: this story is compelling. you went there for the noblist of reasons. you wanted a lot of land mines in the area and tell us what your goal was. you wanted to teach kids how to avoid them? >> i mean in the areas such as somalia that are war torn they are left with the explosives and kids don't know he what they are so they end up blowing off their arms and legs. they are mameed for the rest of their lives because they are uneducated. the goal of my organization and what i was trying to do is educate the kids so that they didn't have to be handicapped for the rest of their lives. >> you knew the risk going in and knew that the area was extremely dangerous. >> i did know the risk but went in under the cover and protection it of my organization and expected them to take care of me. >> sean: let's talk about the

abduction. it was the most horrifying experience. it started a series of events that didn't seem like they were ever going to end. it was just we were in the car and we were in our caravan and all of a sudden another suv pulls up, splashes mud all over the wind shield and starts slamming a 47s into the windows and screaming in somali. the next thing i know there is some man that i don't know with an ak pointing it to my head and other guys getting into the car and we slam off down the tracks like nothing i have ever experienced before. >> sean: explain because this went on for a long period of time. what was the general treatment of you? >> i was treated like an animal. i was nothing more than a dollar sign to them. they hit us. they came after us. they screamed at us. shouted at us. told us they going to cut our heads off. it got worse and worse and

worse as time went on. >> while this is happening to you, you get a call and a request for how much money? >> well, i didn't get it personally but initially we got a request that i found out later on for $45 million for jess and her colleague. >> sean: what was going on on your end while your wife was being held? >> a lot of different agencies were, of course, involved that i probably will never get to know he either but you more or less from the minute that i got to know about it a few minutes afterwards i got a phone call from the fbi and they were monitoring it from more or less the second that it happened. >> sean: coming up next, the amazing story of jessica's rescue by seal team six, when we come back. stay right there. when i first felt the diabetic nerve pain, of course i had no idea what it was. i felt like my feet were going to sleep. it progressed from there to burning... to like 1,000 bees

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>> sean: welcome back to "hannity." jessica buchanan was held hostage in somalia for more than three he months. she was mistreated, malnourished and health was deteriorating so fast then one night in an a instant everything changed. >> sean: walk us through the night of your resources he cue. >> i could hear scratching. there were large beetles that come out at night and i thought they were on my sleeping map. i hear one of the guys sleeping

next to me get up and i see this look of sheer terror on his face and then the entire night erupts into gunfire. and all i can think is that i know i need to get down as low as i possibly can to the ground because i'm so afraid that i will be shot the in the head or are that maybe one of the pirates is going to shoot me if we are are being retaken. i had no ey idea what was going on. never did it cross my mind that it could be someone coming to my rescue until i feel hands on me roughly shaking me and i'm starting to fight back because i think if i'm being rekidnapped by another group i'm not going. i don't have the energy to survive this, i can't do this any more. then i hear someone say my name. they say jessica. but it is an american accent. a young man's voice and he has an american accent. i don't even know how to comprehend what i' i'm hearingd he says we are the american

military and we are here to save you. >> sean: take you home. >> and we are going to take you home. >> sean: they had to identify fight.otect you in the fi it was a risky operation. they are great at what they do. they got every one of them and they obviously were taking you out and there was a rendezvous with helicopters. >> show scooped me up and ran with me across the desert so safe at the. at one point they weren't sure the premises was completely safe until they formed a ring around me and had me lie down and formed a human shield on top of me to protect me. >> have you met these guys since this happened? you didn't see their faces did you? >> no. >> sean: you don't know who they are? >> i don't know who they are. >> sean: seal team six, that's it. would you like to meet them? >> yeah, they saved my life. >> sean: did you know this had the potential to happen? >> i had a feeling something could happen. after the last proof of life call that jess made i had a

discussion with the crisis management team and the fbi and i told them that we as a family feared that jess was going to die and we had consulted with her doctor and so on and i had a feeling that something would happen. the fbi guys left after that meeting and i could feel that something was there but, of course, i couldn't know anything. >> sean: did you ever talk to the president? >> no. >> sean: but you would like to meet these guys. >> i would like to just say thank you, nothing more. >> sean: do you regret going there now knowing the country better? would you do it again? >> i would do something differently but i really do believe in what i do. >> sean: you would go back there? >> i don't think that the point i would go back to somalia. >> sean: i don't think that would be a good idea. >> we are still humanitarian aide workers at heart and hope

we can continue on in our humanitarian evangelicals he for thes and endeavors and would like to advocate and educate. >> sean: all great. find a safer place. it is a great story and also a a huge tribute to our military. >> absolutely. >> sean: the best and greatest. what a great story. and we are are so, first of all, a lot of inner strength but you and both of you and the book is fascinating. really is. the story is fascinating. it is an honor to meet you. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having us. >> sean: thank you both. amazing story. that is all the time we have left this evening. let not your heart be troubled. the news continues. thanks for being with us. ♪

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>> good morning, everyone. we start with will a fox news alert. today is may 18th. i'm am sin camerota. now this chaos as two trains pattern with rush hour commuters. 60 injured. some critically. the track left severely damaged crippling travel for people in the northeast. the latest on the crash in connecticut straight ahead. >> plus, a heated hearing on the irs scandal. who is responsible for targeting these individuals? >> i don't have names for you, mr. brady. i'm willing to try to find that out. >> the outgoing irs chief refuses to name names. why can't the administration find knows who are to blam