tomorrow summer officially starts here on "fox & friends." we'll kick off our concert series with michael bolton who will be in the house! >> have a fantastic weekend. she pled the fifth. but will she be back to answer more questions from congress. there are questions about whether lois lerner will face more questions from congress. martha: she invoked her right not to answer any of their questions yesterday. but then she went on to make an opening statement saying quote i did nothing wrong. committee chairman darrel darrea

says that statement may be a game changer. >> it does afare clearly unprecedent her making these statement and denials for which she was subpoenaed crosses the line. bill: there was outrage after yet another hearing yield no information. >> it looks to me like the irs has something to hide. the white house changed the story about what they knew and when they knew it. it's clear that this appears to be a pervasive problem. as i said last week, i'm not interested in who is going to resign. i'm interested in who is going to jail. there are specific laws that pertain to irs. the attorney general indicated as such earlier this week. there is a serious problem and i think it's our job to get to the bottom of it. bill: stuart varney box business

network, good morning to you. what is the potential impact on the president's policy, the president's agenda? >> reporter: you can feel the anger out there and it's coming from both sides of the aisle. democrats in the house and senate are expressing their outrage at the silence from lois lerner and the dismissive attitude. that's going to hurt president obama. he needs lock set democrat support to get his agenda through. he needs that support to push it through. some of that support is beginning to melt away. at the same time representative in the house representative diane black is introducing any agency has has anything to do with obama-care. and a senator wants to defund the irs when it comes to

policing obama-care. two week ago he would have gotten the support to beat that back but now maybe some of that support is drifting away. bill: we know she has been an attorney, she has worked for the government for 30 years. >> reporter: she worked for the election commission in the 1990 asen led the fight against the christian coalition. in the process of going after the christian coalition an attorney asked what prayers were said by pat robertson. there is a suspicious miss lerner has been working to implement leftist policies throughout her government career. bill: go to the conclusion here and when you do that we have to

be reminded this is in the context of an election. two of them, a mid-term in 2010 and a national election in 2012. >> reporter: you look at all that happened. i have come to the conclusion that a machinery of government was used to beat up on the president's oh own pents and support his supporters. the power and machinery of government was used. martha: republican congressman trey gowdy was the first person to raise the red flag yesterday over lois lerner's testimony. watch this. >> mr. issa, mr. cummings said we should run this like a courtroom. and i agree with him. she just testified. she just waived her right to amendment privilege. you don't get to tell your side

of the story then have the right to the fifth amendment privilege. she waived her right to privilege and she ought to answer our questions. march, there was applause and she left the room shortly after that. he will explain why she needs to come back to capitol hill. bill: bullet points go back three years. early 2010. when the irs began screening conservative groups that apply for tax exempt status. including questions about what books they were reading and in some cases what they were quote trained for. some of these groups waited 3 years to have their tax exempt applications processed while two election cycles came and went.

>> the british prime minister david cameron vowing to never give in to terror after a brutal attack by two islamic militants hacking a british soldier to death in broad daylight. then with bloody knives and meat cleavers. can you believe this? one of the men turned to people watching this and recorded a terror message while they waited for the police to come. these images are graphic. >> we'll fight an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. i apologize women have to witness today. but in our land women have to see this every day. your government, they don't care but. you will never be safe. martha: he apologized women will

have to see this. what are they saying and what are you learning about this today? >> reporter: it's ugly stuff. we are outside the barracks where the active duty british soldier was killed. people are very, very upset and emotional about what happened. we don't know the identity of the soldier and we don't know the identity formally of the attackers. according to sources they are british born. apparently of nigerian descent. looking at that amateur video, it backs up with the witnesses said. the two attackers were in a car, they ran into that soldier, they literally hacked him to death then stood around while they waited for police to show up

pronouncing those islamic slogans. the police came and shot them. they are being held in a london hospital under arrest by police. prime minister david cameron headed an emergency meeting of his cabinet. >> this country will be absolutely resolute in its stand against violent extremism and terror. we'll never give in to tear i'm or terror in any of its forms. second, this view is shared by every community in our country. >> reporter: cameron said that he will find the terrorists. there are 1,200 extra police combing the city right now looking for clues. martha: he wasted no time calling that a terror attack. what leads do they have in this whole investigation so far?

>> reporter: we are told according to sources from our sister network that these folks were under surveillance by the police, they were being followed but the feeling was they were not ready to attack at that moment. but there were leads. there were two different houses bun not too far from where we are and another in the middle of the country that was searched by police. are these lone wolves, home groans, self-starter terrorists or are they suspected terrorists with a jihadi network behind them. if they are self-starters, lone wolves. where did they get the information? people are saying the slain al qaeda leader anwar al-awlaki might have inspired them. one more final note, martha. just like in boston.

right here people stepped up to the plate. it's an amazing story of a 48-year-old mother of two, a cub scout leader who got out of her bus and confronted the attackers and said why are you doing this? they said we want to start a war in london. she said youu you are just two people, you will not win. that was incredible. also incredible, the police responding. according to reports it was a police woman who shot six shots, injuring both of the would-be terrorists and leading to their arrest. martha: it's so shocking for everybody who watched this unravel. what heroism on the part of that woman and the police officers. more on this later. thank you. bill: president obama giving a speech and counter-terrorism

strategy. we expect him to talk about the use of drones. more on this coming up in a few moments. karl rove, joe trippi and later more on this. >> closing gitmo is something he wanted to do since his first term. what is the likelihood it will happen now? we'll ask donald rumsfeld to weigh in next hour. bill: in the meantime we have a packed show. just getting rolling. the obama administration accused of threatening freedom of the press. even targeting the phone record of the parents of one of our reporters here at fox news. martha: new allegations against the army psychologist charged in the fort hood shooting rampage.

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martha: hard to believe it's 7 months since hurricane sandy. but there are signs of progress along the jersey shore as the bellmar boardwalk was reopened. 14,000 boards had to be replaced out there. it will make a lot of folks happy this weekend. bill: did lois lerner waive her fifth amendment rights and in doing so make a substantial legal error in her defense? here is what she said yesterday. >> because i'm acertaining my right not to testify i know some people will assume i have done something wrong. i have not. one of the basic functions of the fifth amendment is to protect innocent individuals and that is the protection i'm invoking today. bill: this commonly accepted

law. a common rule is once a witness voluntarily reveals incriminating facts he or she may not be forced to disclose the details related to those facts. and a defendant who takes the stand can then take the privilege against cross-examination on matters reasonably related to the subject of the matter of his direct examination. you had a bit after head start on this. you called her out immediately. why? >> well, mr. cummings from maryland said we should run this hearing like a courtroom. i thought about my previous job. you can't say i didn't rob the bank but i won't answer the prosecutor's questions.

you can't do what she did yesterday if we were in a courtroom. bill: it doesn't appear chairman darrell issa knew where you were going with that. does this mean lois lerner comes back before your committee? >> among chairman issa's wonderful quality, he's not an attorney but he does listen to us who couldn't do anything else for a living and went to law school and he did last-night. let's play this out. let's assume he brings her back. i promise she won't make the same mistake today as she tid yesterday. you can't make someone talk unless your jim is jack bower. are we going to holder in contempt. put her in jail, offer her immunity which would i not be a fan of or are we going to build

a case not using her testimony? all of that will be decided at the chairman speaker level. bill: if you bring her back she can raise her right hand and invoke the amendment and not answer any questions. >> unless you are willing to do with jack bower does, you can't make people talk. bill: has she been contacted come back? >> i don't know if chairman issa has contacted her attorney. the sixth amendment does not allow to us talk to her directly. my guess is that lawyer won't make the same mistake he made yesterday. bill: he did not go so far as to call for a special prosecutor. ddo you agree with him? >> only if he has seen a power.

if you have access to a grand jury yes, i would be fully in favor of a special prosecutor because that is the best way to investigate crime. it's not congress it's with a grand jury and a prosecutor and some agents. bill: the ins and outs of the hoops we were jumping through yesterday. judge andrew napolitano tells us this is a grave and irreversible error. how did her own counsel allow her to do that? >> i don't know what she is paying her lawyer but she is overpaying. if you are going to invoke your amendment privilege against self-incrimination you don't say anything. you don't say good morning, you don't say your name. bill: the way you are describing it, the strong reaction you had yesterday. once she made a statement about her innocence it appeared you

were making the argument you can ask her questions that pertain to her guilt or innocence and could that have been done yesterday base of her statement? >> yes, but i promise you her lawyers would have whispered in her ear, don't answer. you can't make them talk. you can just assign consequences for a failure to talk. but i would love to have asked her questions yesterday, but my suspicion is her lawyer would have scooted himself up to the table and said don't answer these questions and then we would not be having the same conversation about how you handle that. bill: for the viewers watching at home trying to follow this story, where does it go next? >> we have other witnesses. we have access to other information. i would agree with my democrat colleague and speaker boehner. a prosecutor who has grand jury seen pennsylvania power, the power to compel and offer immunity where appropriate is

where we should go. there are limits with what congress can do with criminal actions. bill: it was interesting to watch indeed. martha: it was destroyed in the month sister tornado that leveled moore, oklahoma. we are now getting our first look inside of plaza towers elementary cool. look at this school -- plaza towers elementary school. we are live on the ground next. >> there is no planning for what's next. day by day to see what i can do. >> it was all for nothing. try to make a nice living and something comes through and tears it up. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day.

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bill: the u.s. army psychiatrist who is accused of gunning down 13 and wounding 32 others at fort hood. if convicted he faces the death penalty or life in prison without parole. martha: back to oklahoma where some of the tornado victims are getting a first look at what is left of their homes. families are digging through the rubble. they are searching for whatever personal items, pictures, photos, anything they can get that they can hold on to. the tornado damaged or destroyed 13 hours homes. think about that. at the center of this tragedy is the plaza towers elementary

school where 7 children lost their lives over the course of this master tornado. john roberts joins us live from moore, oklahoma where he went inside the school and really got a look at what has happened there and where he is. it's pouring, we should point out, once again, on these poor folks. >> reporter: the weather this morning is just terrible here. in moore there is a line of severe storms moving through like a train. another big cell coming in. it looks like there is no risk of tornadoes, though there is a risk that we'll tell you about throughout the day in the southwestern part of this state. the damage estimated between 1.5 and $2 billion for this monster tornado which would put it as the second or third. we got a look at that ruined plaza towers elementary school

in the heart of one of the worst hit neighborhoods. some of the classrooms are primarily intact. but other areas are pummeled. that's where the children died when the walls collapsed on top of them. i ran into a family who had children in the school. as the storm rolled in they ran to the school for shell shelter from the storm along with their children person. >> the wall that we were next to fell and when it fell it landed on top of me and my wife and three kids. one of the teachers walked by and i tell them, i said pull my kids out. then he got my kids and he pulled all three of them out. that's when the wall collapsed on top of us.

>> reporter: they were collapsed under that wall for a couple minutes before a few more people came along and lifted it high enough so they could be pulled out themselves. this is a before and after picture. it was built in 1966. it didn't have a shelter or safe room. they weren't required back then. it will be demolished and rebuilt. but they are not sure if they will build on that side or if they will move somewhere else. he says he feels bad for the parents who lost their children. he has survivor's guilt. but he said he nearly died in there so he knows what those parents are going through. martha: when walls are falling on you and small children. it's remarkable that any of them got out of there. there is a lot of talk about the shelters or lack thereof at

those schools. >> reporter: it's a tragedy. it's an ordinance that any new school construction has to have a safe room or tornado shelter. but that one didn't because it was built in 1966 and there was never the money to retrofit it with a tornado shelter. but glenn lewis, the mayor of moore says he wants to at least with other building being built make sure there is a tornado shelter. he doesn't know if he will be able to get that through the city council. martha: you would think there would be the momentum for it. in the pouring rain to add insult to injury. we'll see you later. bill: the family goes back and looking for pictures. you come back and see that storm. president obama is set to try and make good on one of his biggest campaign promises. >> to overcome extremism we must

be vigilant in upholding the values our troop defend. there is no force in the world more powerful than the example of america. that's why i ordered the closure of the detention center at guantanamo bay and will seek swift and certain justice for captured terrorists. bill: that was february of twin. is closing gitmo going to keep us safer? [ crowd cheering ] [ male announcer ] for sensitive skin, there's fusion proglide. our micro thin blades are thinner than a surgeon's scalpel for our gentlest shave. switch to fusion proglide. gillte. the best a man can get.

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president obama is set to lift the ban on transferring detainees out of guantanamo bay and sending them to yemen. everybody will be watch weighing says here closely and we are joined by karl rove, former senior adviser and chief of staff to president george bush. and joe trippi. good to have you here this morning. on the politics from the if you are working in the west wing, it's a good time to change the subject, i would imagine. >> my understanding is this speech has been scheduled for some time. we ought to welcome the president addressing the war and terror. i'm glad he's doing it today.

i don't think it' an effort to change the subject. he has been doing that with the economy by traveling around the country. i expect it's not part of the same thing. martha: joe, is it high time to get back to this discussion? we know some of the central things that will be discussed here would be a lift on the ban to send some of these prisoners back to yemen. we believe that might be 86 of the 166 could be headed in that direction. and the shift of the drone strike in the overseeing of those from the cia over to the military. what do you make of it? >> i agree with carl. i don't think this is some sort of distraction. this is something we should welcome. i do think that it's high time to talk about this. both of these issues have been controversial. the drone strike and gitmo. and i think what the president is going to be talking about is

the need to rebalance where the cia and military has been since 9/11. what i think you are going to see with the drone strikes is moving, getting the cia to get refocused on intelligence and those kinds of things. unless these paramilitary operations let them decide whether they can capture them alive and not do a drone strike and not have the cia involved in this. martha: what about gitmo itself? it was one of the first promises in the first term. he seems to be headed back in that direction. >> there are 166 people there. 86 of them from yemen. the people left in gitmo are the worst of the worst. the people who are marginal and not expected to return to the

battlefield most of them are long gone out of gitmo. even then we found out roughly a third of the people that were sent home on these program under the bush administration, a third of them came back to the battlefield. we have the worst of the there. the chance of recidivism is very high. yemen which is one of the two countries we are talking about. i would worry about their ability to house, rehabilitate and monitor these people. this is not a strong government and we may be asking too much of them. afghanistan, they may have a divergent interest. they may be happy to take these people back and release them to cultivate the extremist element. the afghanis are focused on the fact saying we are out of here in 2014. they are saying after you get out of here maybe we better have

better relationships with our opponents. martha: the threat of home grown terrorism and the possibility that any one of these individuals could be involved in that. >> martha, there is not going to be some willy nilly all 166 get released. first of all the pentagon has to certain firify that each individual that would be sent back to their country. they have to certify they believe the person is not going to go back on to the battlefield. martha: we have seen 30% have committed or suspected to have gone back to the battlefield. >> this is something that changed a year ago and doesn't go into effect for another few months where the military has to certify they can be released. the a facility and the monitoring has to be certified by us.

when you look at the $100 million they asked to fix up gitmo, the million dollars per detainee that we are spending a year to keep them there, when allies like the saudis and kuwaitis have built prisons to our specifications to house them. and then have a rehabilitation program and monitoring all have to be certified by us to entertain the pentagon certifying the detainee going. all of these things have to happen. >> we have had similar efforts to require certification in the past and they haven't worked. can i say one quick thing about drones? i'm worried about the president's statement on drones. we are going to end signature strikes on groups of al qaeda or

terrorist fighters gives me some pause. what we are saying is we are only going to worry about it if we think it directly imminently affects americans. we are not going to take out these bad guys if they represent a threat to our allies. martha: thank you very much. important conversation. see you soon. bill: japan was off by 7% overnight. concerns about china and its strength keeping tokyo's market and our market strong. the feds suggesting it won't print money ever but it will for now. the $85 billion or whatever the figure is right now may be coming to an end at some point. we are off 80 point yesterday and 88 today. it's early. we'll see where we go on wall street. martha: why did the justice department need the phone record of james rosen's mom and dad? bill: a major battle raising

over the debt ceiling. what some republicans say must happen before washington borrows any more money.

martha: high wind make the so-called great highway look more like a beach. crews shutting down a road in san francisco waiting for the high winds to stop. >> we could send crews out to clean up the sand but they turn around and see the sand is back.

martha: they are exploring long-term options to keep the sand from building up on the road again. bill: the feds are snooping on our colleague james rosen. court records reveal the feds seized the records of many fox phone lines including james rosen's parents. myron rosen is an attorney. james rosen's family. >> we are not talking nuclear proliferation with our grandson. bill: you believe this story could get lost in the shuffle. >> i worry about that because we have benghazi which is the biggest scan california all because we have four dead americans. and we have the irs scandal which is toxic to the obama

administration because it touches every american. but this case goes to the core of the first amendment and that's why i'm worried it will get lost here. members of the press are beginning to wake up to this. this is a direct assault on the first amendment. this an assault on press freedoms. you cannot have a healthy and functioning republic as we have always had if you don't have a free press. what the administration is accused of doing not just with our pal james reasons but with the associated press. is an overbroad attempt to surveil them. so it's not just going after one phone line, making one set of business e-mails. this taken overbroad assault on the associated press, 20 phone lines. 100 reporters and editors being surveilled by the justice department. james rosen and his parents. his personal e-mails and personal cell phone.

bill: eugene robinson writer for "the washington post." he defended the white house for five years. this is what he where is. before president obama took office the is any nawj act had been used 3 times. obama has used the act 6 times and counting. >> you mention the pentagon papers. they have gone after the actual leakers. there are two issues. one is the danger of leaking national security secrets which is incredibly serious. we saw this burg the bush administration. those things got leaked and put american national security in danger. those things should be investigated. but what team obama seems to have done here is flip it and not just gone after the leakers of these state secrets but gone

after the journalists as well where the information comes to. bill: what would be the effect of that knowing there are so many hot stories yet to be finalized. >> here is the danger of this and should concern every american. this is gangster-style intimidation against journalists. it's meant to try to cow them into not covering stories that may not put the obama administration and white house in the best light. it was also designed to potentially silence possible whistleblowers whether on benghazi other irs or god knows what else. bill: you think if others are about to go public this may give them pause. the "new york times" says the obama administration is threatening fundamental freedoms of the press to gather news. >> papers across the country that have been generally

supportive of president obama say this is a bridge too far. you are endangering our business and endangering the first amendment. bill: it's something to watch as well. martha: you guys touches on this. how high up did the irs scandal really go? who gave the directive? the president says he didn't know about it until he saw it in the newspapers and on tv. but does that matter? critics say the culture of this administration is to blame. bill: the jury says they can't decide on life or death for jodi arias. >> i don't see how helping a cause is working against me. if it's in bad taste, that's their opinion and they are entitled to them.

bill: today there is a major challenge to the president's birth control mandate. hobby lobby asking to be exempted from the healthcare birth control measures requiring the morning after pill. family owned hobby lobby considers itself a christian business and is closed on sundays. martha: a jury heading back to work today. they are trying to decide whether jodi arias should get death or life in prison for killing her boyfriend. adam housley is live in los angeles. 12 members of this jury have gotten to work on this. where does it go from here? >> reporter: they spent 7 hours so far.

they are back again this morning. they came in after a few hours and the judge basically told them you need to try to find a decision and sent them back to the jury room. the jury looked frustrated. you're selection was back in december. when they told the judge they hadn't come to a unanimous decision about the death penalty you can see some of the members of the family try crying. here is what the judge said to the jury, part of the suggestion she made to the jury when they were in that courtroom. >> i have some suggestions to help your deliberations and not to force you to reach a verdict. i am merely trying to be responsive top around apparent need for help. i do not wish nor intend to force a verdict. each juror has a duty to consult with one another. to deliberate with a view to

reaching an agreement if it can be done without violence to individual judgment. >> reporter: that was judge sherry stephens pushing the jury as lightly as she can. martha: what happens if they can't reach a decision? >> a couple interesting things. the judge can keep sending them back into that room. they have been there since december. they have been there a month or so longer than they expected. if they decide, you know what, this jury is not going to make a decision, they can impanel an entirely new jury. they have to go through jury selections again. not about the whole case. just about the death penalty or not. the prosecutor can say we give up, we'll have live in prison. those are the two choices to have, martha.

bill: the future of gitmo, the future of drone strikes as he gets ready to give a major address on foreign policy. martha: the exact opposite of what the president knew and when did he know it. the emerging details of a white house apparently keeping the president in the dark about the brewing irs scandal.bl what it says about his leadership. and cheddar bay bisc. then choose from a variety of seafood entrées. plus choose either an appezer or a dessert to share. offer ends soon at red lobster! where we sea food differently. we don't let frequent heartburn come between us and what we love. so if you're one of them people who gets heartburn and then treats day afr day... block the acid with prilosec otc and don't get heartburn in the first place! [ male announcer ] e pill eachmorning. 24 hours. zero heartbur

martha: president obama is set course to rears are course on guantanamo bay. it's part of a speech he's going to give on the war on terror. bill: busy morning already. administration will address two controversial policy issues. acknowledging for the first time the targeting and killing of four terror suspects overseas and the future of the detention center at gitmo. martha: wendell goler joins us live from the white house. >> reporter: we hear about drone strikes which are down sharply since peaking in 2010. he has sent to congress the policy standards under which this country takes action. he will also defend drone strikes as being necessary, legal and just. we know four americans have been

killed in drone strikes in afghanistan and yemen. two were targeted members of the al qaeda, the other two were in the prong place at the wrong time. the. >> i recognize in our democracy no one should take my word for it that we are doing things the right way. so in the months ahead i'll continue to engage congress to insure that only that our targeting, detention and targeting of terrorists remains consistent with our laws and system of checks and balances. but our efforts are even more transparent to the american people and the world. >> reporter: he will talk about his effort to close the facility at guantanamo bay where half the detainees are cleared to be sent back to their countries and more than half are

on hunger strikes. martha: there has been a lot of controversy over what the president's perspective is on the war on terror. what do we expect to hear about that today? >> reporter: the al qaeda core has been weakened but new dangers have emerged. some from al qaeda affiliated groups, some from copycats. some say president obama may be overstating his success after susan rice's inaccurate information on benghazi. >> she was blowing political smoke. she said let mow remind you al qaeda has been december made it, al qaeda is dead. she was trying to create a narrative 8 weeks before the election that the president was strong and the war on terror. >> reporter: he will insist we

need to remain engaged in dangerous parts of the world. bill: a controversial gitmo detention center, 166 detainees currently being held there. 16 of them considered to be high value. gitmo has cost the american taxpayer $2 billion to keep it operational. martha: we'll be joined by donald rumsfeld. we'll get his take on what he thinks about this now coming up. bill: there are growing questions over how the white house handled the irs scandal and whether the president knew anything about the targeting of conservative groups by the tax agency. reports say that several senior aids knew about it but tried to shield the president from any second term scandal that might jeopardize his presidency.

that's a claim not everyone believes. >> it's inconceivable to me the president wouldn't know. i just put myself in his shoes. i deal with my senior staff every day. and if the white house had known about this which now it appears they have known about it for about a year, it's hard to imagine it wouldn't have come up in some conversation. bill: jonah goldberg, good morning to you. i want to get to what speaker boehner said in a moment. but you see a different view of this. you believe it's not so important what the president knew and we did not know. but you see that as a distraction to the bigger issue. >> reporter: if he knew a year ago that's scandalous and a big deal. but a lot of our conversation in washington is whether he knew a month ago or a few days before the i.g. report. i think that's a bit after

distraction. there is a policy scandal that goes to the heart of the obama presidency. this was a guy who said he was a master of policy. he knew more about policy than his policy directors. now his biggest defense is he was in a bubble and the government is too big to manage, and these were a couple rogue agents. the reality is we have a government that is so big, that's become so politicized that it create sad climate where it's seen as not that big a deal to target citizens exercising their first amendment rights. the press isn't the only ones with first amendment rights. tea parties have first amendment rights, too. bill: but your big point is it puts the size of government on display. >> and the climate president obama created. if you look at congress and what the independent counsel said

about president reagan during iran ca contra. president obama set the tone from the top down on an approach to government as mitch mcconnell says in today's post. it's a culture of intimidation. any group on the other side of a public policy issue is considered to be illegitimate and somehow dangerous and malignly motivated. i think that's a big part of this scandal. talk about what speaker boehner told greta. he says it's inconceivable the president didn't know about this sooner. he said i deal with my senior staff every day and it's hard to imagine it wouldn't have couple in some conversation. >> i think speaker boehner has a point. it's hard to imagine it didn't come up. but if it didn't come up, that's outrageous, too. that means these guys didn't consider what the irs was doing that big a deal.

they are sort of damned if they do and dammed if they don't. if he knew about it and didn't do anything about it, that indicts him as thinking this is okay. if they didn't tell him about it it's because the culture at the white house said this is not that important an issue to bring it to the president's attention. the when is relevant. if the when is last week or a month ago. the story from this white house changed 6 or 7 times about when they knew and how they found out. the idea that we should take their word for it now strikes me as ridiculous. martha: house republicans are set to pass a student loan bill that the president says he will veto when it come to his desk. interest rates on federal

student loans will double on july 1. have you cans want to peg the rate to 10-year treasury are you notes. democrats oppose that. bill: another debate over a ballooning defend city fast approaching $17 trillion. a handful of republicans considering raising the debt ceiling if never -- if everyone agrees, including the president, on balancing the budget. >> what has changed is the president's position has been weakened. coming out of the election he was less than willing to compromise. with all these scandals the president should be looking for some st. louis. bill: they all agreed $17 trillion is damaging to our country. martha: accusations of chicago-style politics in washington from the irs scandal

to the investigation into the media. here is the question. is the white house using strong arm tactics to try to manipulate the message out there. we'll ask that question to the man who just stepped down as the fcc. bill: we'll look at the deadly damage from the tornado in moore, oklahoma. martha: the final chapter closed in the story of that deadly sinkhole in florida that swallowed a man and his home. >> one of the reasons i drive by is some things -- lets get the ball rolling.

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bill: there has been a deadly bombing in pakistan, shredding a police vehicle there. the attacker detonated a remote

controlled car bomb. no claim of responsibility but insurgents in that region they have been fighting local authorities there for years. martha: charles crow krauthammes saying even if president obama didn't know the specifics of the irs targeting of tea party groups web and his party charles says created a climate that led to that. >> a lot of democratic senators and others urging really high scrutiny about the tea party. a climate where the president of the youth says these groups are a threat to democracy. the president of the united states in the state of the union address denounces the idea of these groups and intimates that some of them could be taking foreign money and undermining our electoral process. says it in the presence of the

supreme court insulting them. if you are working in the government you get a sense the democratic senators are innocences about the heavy scrutiny. martha: i'm joined by the former commissioner of the fcc. you are going to spend more time with your family. charles is suggesting, did the white house know, did the campaign know, did they put in motion this list the irs created which pea pears to be manipulative in it goals. charles was saying it does matter if the culture is established from the top. what do you think? >> absolutely. i think you can go back to the citizens united case which gave the administration the willies. they reaffirmed first amendment rights, including petitioning your government or speak out. it's all coming back to that

outrage from there. bureaucracies like the media tend to travel in herds. all they need are signals from opinion leaders to stampede in a certain direction. that's what we are seeing today. martha: critic have to be specific in terms of what their criticism is. if they are saying there is a culture of intimidation and charles is suggesting that his opinion is it's coming from the top. what's the responsibility to sort of draw that connection? we know there were a few things going on during this irs scandal. you talked about one of them. citizens united. there was the implementation of healthcare which the administration felt strongly about. but do we know there was a directive with the irs or directive with ap reporters and james rosen? >> charles is right. he's uniquely qualified because he's a psychiatrist.

there is group psychology going on here. the state of the union address. the famous interchange between the president and justice alito saying not so. or coming from senators after citizens united from the to the irs saying look into some of these groups. it doesn't take a smoking gun e-mail to get people moving in a certain direction. i'm delighted to see people left, right and center are concerned about this. there was an editorial in the new york times on the press crackdown. martha: when you are dealing with the herd mentality, is the notion that, well, look, what we are doing is still meaningful. so do what you have to do to accomplish our goals. as charles was saying the tea party is bad, the message coming through the unions and from the white house to a great extent.

is it the end justifies the means? don't worry if you have to make a list of these folks to call them out, you are doing the right thing. >> in history if you look back in history this happened in republican administrations as well. people can get intoxicated with their power. you can see that in the position i had at the fcc in terms of how much power these folks have and the irs has a tremendous amount of power and it, squelch freedom of peach and freedom of the press. martha: you are the son of reporters and journalists. what do you make of this james rosen situation at fox. >> it's chilling. it's not just fox. almost by the hour we are finding out new allegations against a cbs reporter or "new york times" reporter. the obama administration has tried to prosecute more

reporters under the espionage act of 1917 than all other presidents combined. that's from george washington to george w. bush. more than all those imlind. -- all those combined. why is that? martha: is that a bridge too far that will come back and bite them? >> you need to prosecute leakers. but you don't go after the press. you just don't do that. the press is the watchdog against government abuse and we need to be very protective of those first amendment rights. bill: a british soldier hacked to death on the streets of london. also we are getting new poll numbers on the threat of islamic terror and how americans feel about it. we'll talk to the former defense secretary donald rumsfeld. martha: college dating is not like it used to be. why true love may be taking a

back seat to the so-called hookup culture. we'll tell what you we are talking about when we come back.

>> in oklahoma now facing a massive wake up bill from monday's deadly tornadoes. officials estimating the damage at $2 billion already. the disaster zone stretches more than 17 miles and 13,000 homes either dammed or wiped out entirely. casey stegall is back with more this morning and what challenges are they facing there today, casey? >> good morning. no doubt it is going to be the weather. you know, much much the area has been under a severe thunderstorm warning. in morning in the early morning hours it's let up a little bit. it kind of comes and goes in lulls, i'll have scott pan off back there. you see ominous storm clouds. we've seen a lot of lightning, hail reported in areas, and downpours. a flash flood warning in effect for another 20 minutes or so for moore and much of oklahoma, up to three-inchess of rain falling per hour. what a wild week of weather across oklahoma, clearly here in

moore storms on tuesday and then today hampering the cleanup efforts after monday's tornado. yesterday it was hot, near 90 degrees. utility crews were able to make some progress, a lot of heavy equipment moved in, all while survivors of this monster twister start to really cope with what they've been through this week. >> when you look around now and you just drive around and you see the community -- >> it's just unbelievable. i'm just at a loss for words. and the outpouring of people just trying to get all of us -- we have six kids, you know, and we lost everything. it's just gone, flattened. we tried to dig pictures out yesterday. >> we talked to that woman yesterday who rode the storm out in her storm shelter, like so many did with six young children, including that newborn that she was holding onto. bill, her neighbor did not survive.

bill: you also had a unique look at some of the damage. what did you find there, casey? they've moved all of the media now, the trucks at least out of the neighborhoods because they've got to clearly move the heavy equipment in. yesterday we got special access and we were able to use our qrv or quick response vehicle it's called. it has cameras mounted on both sides, the right and left of the vehicle, and we w-r we were able to drive for blocks and blocks and blocks, and that really paints a picture, it puts things into perspective switching the shots around and you see how widespread the damage is. truly entire neighborhoods gone, both sides of the street, the moving shots very telling, because you can see all of the destruction, and this is destruction, bill, mind you, that goes on for miles and miles. >> casey, thank you. says see stegall live there in moore, oklahoma. martha: we are awaiting an a dress from president obama where he will renew calls to close

guantanamo bay and restrict drone. this in response to the word terror attack in hoop u.s. history. donald rumsfeld on gitmo and. >> a man in florida helped the bombs suspects cash reout a triple murder. and now he's dead too. >> we thought this was going to happen, and it happened. you know what i'm saying ♪ ♪ et toujours ♪ me amour ♪ how about me? [ male announcer ] here's to a life less routine. ♪ and it's un, deux, trois, quatre ♪ ♪ give me some more of that [ male announcer ] the more connected, athletic, seductive lexus rx. ♪ je t'adore, je t'adore, je t'adore ♪

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bill: there will be a major announcement today expect eastbound soon during the president's speech on terrorism. plans to begin transferring prisoners out of gitmo in cuba and to other countries, in some cases their own home country. topbld rumsfeld is the author of a book and secretary of defense under president bush. he's in washington today. nice to see you again. well come back to our program here in "america's newsroom." >> thank you so much. good to be with you. >> i want to get to a number of things in the next five minutes if i can. first, on this idea about sending detainees home, 166 at gitmo. do you support that? >> well, it depends. you have to look at each one. there is no question but the goal is to not have them there, and that's been going on for, you know, the better part of a decade. the problem is the ones that are

left are the most difficult ones, they are the worst of the worst, they are the ones that either we couldn't find any place to send them, or the people in those countries would have let them go, or the people in those countries might not have handled them in the kind of humane way that we believe prisoners should be handled. so it's not an easy thing to do, and a number of the ones that have been sent back over the past years have ended up back on the battlefield killing americans. bill: that is true. 56 of the 166 are from yemen. some of these guys go back and join the fight. a lot of members of congress don't want to see these people released. if you were advising him, how would you -- how would you go about this? >> well, what you have to do is take each case individually it seems to me. and then you have to understand the country. i can't quite understand how they could be confident that yemen would, a, make sure they stayed detained, and b, do it in

a manner that is humane and consistent with our views of how things like that should be done. bill: on the drone policy, we may get more on this today too. this is something that has been pursued with vigor under this administration. you look at pakistan in 2010, 117 strikes in that country alone that year. but yet this year that number has dropped considerably, only 13 so far in 2013. in yemen last year you had 42 drone strikes. so far this year that has dropped to ten. do you think this policy has been effective? >> i think we have to begin with the fact that a drone is nothing more than an airplane, it just doesn't happen to have a human being flying it. so you ought to be able to do with a drone that which you'd do with a manned aircraft. the difference is simply that one thing, that there isn't a person in it. i think there is clearly going to be a use for drones, there has been in the past, there will be in the future, both manned

and -- correction, both armed and unarmed drones. i'll be interested to see what the president has to say. one of the big disadvantages with a drone strike is you kill people and they may very well be people that you would prefer to be able to talk to and find out what they know so that you can protect the american people. bill: if the gitmo and the drone policy go hand-in-hand, because if you do capture them you have to send them somewhere and if it's not a u.s. prison, it's got to be gitmo. >> well it should be gitmo. gitmo -- it's probably as well run a prison as you'll find. prisons are not nice places, but these people were picked up on the battlefield. they are down in guantanamo because of their danger they pose to the united states. there is a process that handles them in a humane way, and closing it i would really want to see what he says, and what he plans to do. bill: well that speech also could touch on the war on terror

and how it's changed since 2001. you'll hear a theme of al-qaida designate of mated in areas in afghanistan and pakistan, and touch on the homegrown terror cases like boston, massachusetts. if you agree that the war and terror has changed over the past 12 years, have we in effect changed with it and done that well? >> no. the united states still has not engaged the battle against the ideological battle against the terrorists in the world. and they exist, they are radical islamists. this administration is unwilling to even use the phrase about islamists and training of terrorists. it seems to me that until you're willing to identify the enemy and you're willing to continue to go after them where they are, and to recognize that it will take time, this is much more like the cold war than it is like world war i or korea.

of it will take time and we have to be willing to engage against the people that are training young people to go out and kill innocent men, women and children. bill: our polling would ao seem to agree with you on that. we found this just yesterday, a clear majority, 56% say that tere terrorism is more of a threat today than after 9/11. what does that suggests? >> it suggests that we haven't developed metrics where we can track and see how well we are doing. we know the number of people that may be killed or captured, but we don't know the number that are being recruited, being trained, we don't know how much money is being raised and given to them, we don't know the number of new madrasa's, we don't have any reports or information on that at all. what you measure improves and we are not measuring anything relating to this that i can see. bill: one other topic too and this is significant too for the u.s. military. you've got this case developing, the secret taping at west point. you had a story pop up last

week, explosive story about sexual abuse alleged by the inspector of the abuse. how big of an issue is this for the military? >> well, it's a big issue. it's an important issue. i don't know that it's a larger issue in the military necessarily than it is in the private sector. but using either oral or physical abuse with respect to people that are under you is a terrible thing, and we ought to have a zero tolerance for it whether it's in the military or in the private sector. bill: are they handling it right? >> well, it's hard to tell. my guess is the data is better in the military than it is in the private sector. but no matter where it is i think it's important that we recognize it's part of human beings and we need to have zero tolerance, and if it's not being handled right they may need to fashion some sort of a slightly different approach so that people can report things up, because my suspicion is a lot of people don't report abuse.

bill: that could be a rumsfeld rule, perhaps, maybe they'd take you up on that. if we read the book what do we learn, by the way? >> lots of things. you know, in life it's better to make original mistakes than to repeat mistakes made by others. these rules which i've enjoyed collecting over many decades now often are pieces of advice from folks a lot smarter than i am and from making mistakes, myself, and watching other people make mistakes, and i think that it's the kind of a book that may be useful for people starting out, people in mid career, as well as people who are managers or leaders. bill: sounds like it's worthwhile. good luck with it okay and thank you for your time today. donald rumsfeld back with us today out of washington. martha: how about this. do you remember when you went on your first date? why college students may be missing out on all the romance because they are stuck in a so-called hookup culture. we investigated this. wait until you see what we found out.

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by his son and he had just recovered from heart surgery in january. well done. martha: now for something a little bit different here in "america's newsroom." i recently read an editorial in a college newspaper about something called the hook up culture. in it a female student said that the routine of drinking and having sex and then pretending you don't know each other the next day was getting her down. she thought it would be nice if you could actually at least acknowledge each other on campus after one of these hookup episodes. i i asked myself, what is really going on out there and what is this doing to our society in the long run? we went back to school to find out. >> most of our female friends i have hooked up with or tried to. >> you hear students talk being about it on college campuses across america what does it mean? >> hooking up means having sex. >> i think something in between,

kissing and sex, yeah. >> the definition varies but one thing is certain, the hookup has no strings attached. >> the next morning you wake up, see what she looks like and then maybe she gets your number. >> forget dates, hookerring up is the date. >> it was like maybe you could have gone to lunch but you got hooked up. >> getting to know each other by getting it on. >> people at parties, you see them hooking up a few seconds later. >> oh, man, you made out with that girl on the dance floor just now, oh. >> going all the way can turn into going out, but students say that is rare. >> it's kind of hard to have a relationship in college because everyone is about this hookup culture. >> college professor donna fraites spent the past eight years investigating the hookup culture, in her new book "the end of sex" she says all the hooking up is desense tieing young people to the joys of romance. >> you have to somehow shut

downey motion tphal lee in order t downtown emotionally in order to hookup. >> one thousand students were surveyed and found that they used words like regretful, empty and ashamed to describe their experience. 36% says they don't feel casual about sex but believe everyone else around them does. >> students see the hookup as their only option, the only path toward getting together with someone that they are interested in. >> nyu student elizabeth disagrees. >> i do not feel pressure to hookup. >> elizabeth wrote an oped objecting to the book and even the term hookup culture. >> i think that is a completely unfair to look at an entire generation. i think that people have a bigger window into it because we have all this new media, we have a lot of ways that you can look in on kind of what the millennium culture is doing. >> she says new media makes

documenting your life online a social goal. she says all this detachment means that the fantasy life of co-eds is much more tame. >> all of the students would tell me, romance is talk being, it's talking for hours, talking on a football field, on a picnic blanket with stars in the sky or candles everywhere. >> elizabeth agrees. not having sex is what is romantic. >> it's like going backpacking. >> for the most part boys will be boys they say. but there are some tradition in a lists who aren't afraid to admit it. >> i believe in courting. if i find a girl that i find attractive i want to get to know her. >> and girlso steady. >> i have yet to have been asked out on a date. i don't know if it's something wrong with me or just the culture of the school. martha: for more on this hookup scene and how it's affecting america's use let's bring in the author of the book, "end of sex"

i think of the boy saying, oh maybe tomorrow she'll get my number. like he will give her his number after they spent the night together. what is the goal here. >> they talk about how that kind of bravado is expected even if it's not truly them and what they want. what they really want is to see that girl again. martha: where do we go from here and how does this effect or does it effect, maybe it doesn't, these kids' relationships going forward? >> one of the things that i think we really need to talk about as a culture is what is the meaning of sex, given hookup culture? because we have to consider hookup culture when we're thinking about what is good sex or what do you want from sex, because all of those -- you know you showed those words that students will use, regretful, and empty and aeu shame, 41

ashamed, 41%. there is another group of students that are ambivalent. i think students are getting much better at hooking up, which means they are getting better at having ambivalent sex. sex isn't really about fun or even about pleasure it's about getting it done and being able to say that you did it. martha: that's the whole thing, documenting because we live in this media culture why it's the numbers and doing something just to say you did it or to take pictures of the event and put it out online so you can prove to everybody that you're having a great time. >> one of the things that i think is really interesting is students feel very proud of themselves now when they are getting better at hooking up. when they are better at being able to walk away and say, you know what i don't feel a thing, i don't want to see that person again, it didn't really mean anything to me. we need to be concerned about that. i know the young people i teach if they are going to be sexually active i would like them to be selfaware about it and i would like them to be at least excited

and having fun. and the fact that they are not really is concerning. martha: we talked to some kids and we'll show this one tomorrow, who feel like they are happy that they are not involved in this culture and then some kids who are, it's a fascinating look at what is going on here. donna thank you very much. good to have you with us. you bring up a very important point in this book. so what happens when you out grow the hookup culture and fall in love? will these young people tell their spouses, oh, i hooked up in college. how many people did you hookup with in college? what will they tell their kids about this culture? we gathered together a group of college students to ask about that and a lot more. we've got some fascinating answers that will surprise you. we'll show you that part of it tomorrow. bill: looking forward to that. generations are different. martha: that's for sure. bill: now we are starting to see how in some ways. jenna lee is standing by. "happening now" rolls our way in 12 short minutes. jenna: we'll go in-depth on the horrific terror attack on a soldier in england. the london mayor says it's wrong

to blame islam, it's wrong to blame foreign policy for this type of attack. is he right? these are questions we raised here at home, a great panel set up to discuss that. also "happening now" on "happening now" you're going to hear for the first time the tape from the closing arguments in the maxim model murder trial. the latest on that. and this also very positive story after all the devastation we've seen in oklahoma, we'll talk to man who brought another town through a deadly twister to emerge triumph infant. bill: a man linked to one of the boston bombing suspects killed in an fbi interview. reports are that he helped tamerlan starz r-r carryout triple murders years before the boston bombings. why the fbi was watching him and what happened in that fateful interview. >> he had a ticket to new york. from there he was going to go to home, back home. >> do you think he would have -- >> they were pushing him, you

know what i mean? they were pushing him.

martha: he put down his big mcand became a hero. now the man credited with rescuing three women held hostage for a decade is reportedly getting free burgers for life. remember charles ramsey he helped amanda berry escape from the house of horrors in cleveland. what a story his was. he led rescuers to the other two women. a dozen cleveland area restaurants have promised ramsey, free burgers, free sandwiches, whatever you want mr. ramsey come on in and we'll set you up. that is a good reward for him. bill: a bizarre twist in the boston matter. a reported friend of one of the

suspected bombers shot dead in an interview with the fbi. now we hear reports he was confessing to an unsolved triple murder. molly line streaming live in massachusetts where the murders occurred several years ago. why do they think this guy was involved? >> reporter: as you say, bill and as you mentioned this man was a friend of tamerlan tsarnaev the now deceased boston bombing suspect. he was killed according to investigators after initiating a violent confrontation there in his orlando, florida, apartment. he was also believed to be a suspect in this triple murder in waltham along with tsarnaev that according to sources telling our boston fox affiliate additional information. the murder in this community was among the most brutal investigators had ever seen. this happened on september 11th. the victims three healthy strong young men in their 20s and 30s covered in their own blood. at least through had their throats slit, the bodies sprinkled in marijuana and thousands of dollars left at the

scene. investigators early on said they believe it would take at least two people to committees very vicious crimes. ibragim todashev is the name of the man killed in florida. the fbi had there to interview him along with two massachusetts state troopers, other law enforcement also there on the scene. both of the men, he and tsarnaev r-r involved in mixed martial arts, they were fighters, both of them from khef chechnya. todashev was about to implicate himself in the crime in waltham when he suddenly decided to go after an fbi agent. he was 27-years-old at the time he was killed, bill. bill: this man in florida, just to connect the dots here he had other run-ins with the law. what do we know about that, molly? >> absolutely. one of them happened just a few weeks before this shooting in florida. he had been involved in an altercation over a parking space with a father and son at an outlet mall. back in 2010 todashev was also

living here in the boston area at that point in time. that explains how he became friends with tsarnaev and he was involved in a road rage incident here in boston. bill: a strange twist. waltham, massachusetts, following that one. martha: there are growing questions by the day about what really happened at the i.r.s. as this investigation now shifts to an i.r.s. official who refused to testify, sea lois lerner pled the fifth. will we ever find out what she knows? new honey bunches of oats greek yogurt and whole grain.

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bill: will be the best 12 seconds of our life right now. martha: you think? we had a really fast two hours, right? now people can stick around because "happening now" is starting right now. bill: see you friday. jenna: thank you, martha and bill. brand new stories and prabing news this hour. we're awaiting a major national security speech from the president. president obama is expected to discuss drones, get me and the threats americans face every day. we'll have a preview of that. plus will convicted killer jodi arias get the death penalty or spend the rest of her life behind bars? a jury could knot reach a decision yesterday. today they're back at work. a man caught on tape firing an ak-47 into a car and a gentleman's club packed with people. why was he doing that? and what happened to him? it is all "happening now." jenna: hi,