thank you at home for being with us. let not your heart be troubled. the news continues and we will see you soon on >>aise trucker is saying he looked in his rear-view mirror and watched in horror as the span collapsed in the water behind him. the three people whose cars went in escaped with minor injuries. nearly a week-long state of violence, spreading outside of stock hom. more than 100 cars set on fire by young people wearing masks, who were throwing rocks at police and firefighters. there are no reports of any serious injuries. the fatal police shooting of a

knife-wielding portuguese immigrant started the rioting. "on the record" starts now. the. we have been lied to at every single turn on every one of the scandals and now they are all coming together in a major train wreck and it is catching up with them. >> oba's on >> obama's hands are on every letter. the benghazi scandal is obama from start to finish, top to bottom, back to front. >> we have seen this playbook from the republicans before. they want to try to drag washington i of partisan fishing expedition, trumped-up hearings and false allegations. >> you can say categorically that nobody at the white house and nobody on the president's political team had any knowledge or was involved in any way of targeting of tea party groups by

the irs? >> yes. >> i certainly didn't know anything about the i.g. report before the report was leaked through the press. >> why did you mislead congress and the american people on this? >> mr. chairman, i did not mislead congress nor the american people. >> this could be the day we get answers. a house committee holding a key hearing on what went wrong in benghazi, as we hear publicly from whistle-blowers who say more could have been done to save american lives. >> when ambassador stevens talked to you perhaps minutes before he died, as a dying declaration, what did he say to you? >> he said, greg, we are under attack. at 3:00 a.m., i received a call from the prime minister of libya. i think it was the saddest phone call i have ever had in my life. when he told me that ambassador stevens had passed away. >> there is growing outrage over the justice department's secret

seizure of associated press phone records. >> the obama regime is spying on the tea party and who knows who else. >> this was a very serious leak. it was an over-broad and secretive taking of a massive amount of phone records from a.p. a.p. won't be intimidated. but our sources may be. >> this is a special edition of "on the record." the second-term scandals of the obama administration, from the turmoil over benghazi and the justice department's assault on the media. but first, the giant scandal causing outrage across the nation and the political aisle, the irs. >> the irs is admitted to targeting conservatives. now we question isn't about who is going to resign. my question is who is going to jail for this scandal? >> there is no single agency in government that has the power that the irs has. they can destroy people. >> let me be clear.

the president believes the activity here, the actions here were wrong and inappropriate. he wants to get to the bottom of this. he wants someone to be held responsible. >> we provided horrible customer service, we will admit that. we did. horrible customer service. you are arguing today that the irs is not to blame. but the subtext of that is that, you are saying, look, we are just incompetent. >> we were not politically motivated in targeting conservative groups. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations. and i have not given false information to this or any other congressional committee. after very careful consideration, videcided fotofollow my counsel's advice and not testify or answer any of the questions today. >> we just received word that

chairman of the committee issa is saying after consulting with counsel, she believed she waived her right by making a statement. he says she is under subpoena and he will recall her to. >> to but the big headline, lois lerner has been placed on administrative leave -- with pay. sess. >> former senior adviser to president reagan, pat buchanan joins us. nice to see you. >> good to see you, greta. >> the irs scandal is grabbing a lot of attention. is this scandal going to go away or is this a big problem for the white house? >> no, it's not going to go away quickly. i think the president has a very serious problem on his hands. this began 3 years ago t. became known to the irs 2 1/2 years ago. the questions on the table, greta, are tremendous -- who ordered this in the irs? who knew about it in the irs? who knew about it at the

treasury didn't? did geithner know this was going on? when they report to the white house counsel, she did not even inform the president of the united states for weeks that she knew about this and that this was coming. this is inexapplicable. >> here's what i don't understand. this has been going on for 3 years, as you know. does some of the blame go to congress, for 3 years, they had wind on it, has power of oversight and has subpoena power. we have a lot of people suffer in the interim. ure have the white house -- i don't know what they did know or not know. certainly the irs knew. have you congress with wind of this. why didn't they move this faster? >> this is inexapplicable. this has gone on 3 years. people in cincinnati knew about t. their superiors knew about it. the edict they were given was expanded by the irs. this is known by any number of people. i will say this for the congress, they did ask questions after they got letters saying

the tea party's being harassed. they asked questions. now, i don't know if they were lied, to but they were misled. they were told in effect or they came to believe, effect, that there was no targeting going on. so i think they were deceived. now, whether these were directly lies, i don't know. but do i agree with you, this is astonishing that this could go on for 3 years or 2 1/2 years and not become known in this city. >> it's also astonishing, it's almost systemic that the cult nurt irs was -- that enough people were involved that nobody put on the brakes. that it was okay to target and drag out their applications. >> there is a rogue agency. it's what it looks like to me. you are right. i don't know who ordered this. let's suppose it's a small group in the tax-exempt section in cincinnati. more people are going to know. popular and more are going to know. the orders go down to expand this to expand this. people have to know this all

through that agency. and the idea that this doesn't move up through the bureaucracy and they don't know it in washington, when that's where their tax-exempt department is. >> lois lerner knew in the summer of 2011 that something was awry. and it's well into 2012. and she was the head of the department. >> again, this was known all through the agency of the department of treasury, i think by may of 2012, before the election, in other words. maybe it was august. before the election. but they had to know, if something like this hits, this is going to be an incredible distraction. it's going to be an incredible problem for the presidential candidate. how this thing did not break really escapes me. but let me talk briefly about the president. i disagree with some of my conservative colleagues. i think this shows a sense of -- of indifference, a sense that he is out of touch, that he is not

in command and control. take mr. holden, an attorney general. he said, this was one of the worst national security leaks i have ever seen. it's first, second or third in that category. and that is why we ordered the seizure of all the records for two months of the associated press in washington. it's that serious and he doesn't even give the president a heads up. >> we are trying to get more information, more facts. >> thank you. >> every day, we are hearing from more and more group who is say they were targeted by the irs. one of them, the richmond tea party. a grueling inquisition after applying for a tax-exempt status. we spoke to other who is say they were unfairly scrutinized. were you targeted? >> we were. it feels creepy to be on somebody's enemy list,

especially the government. >> the president has admitted, in the last couple of days, tonight he says that it did happen. he admits it. does that make you feel any better? >> it doesn't make us feel better. but it makes us feel vindicated. a year or a year and-a-half ago, we were at saying, we felt thiss a problem. we get to say, i told you so, what if you doesn't make us feel any better. >> tell me the process. you applied for tax-exempt status. what happened. >> we applied for tax-exempt status in december of '09. we didn't receive that until july of 2012. just last summer. >> two and-a-half years to get a questionnaire? what happened in between them? >> actually, it took about a year before we got our first 17 questions. those were fairly benign. i guess the organization i am speaking for thought it would be 6 mons -- six months to a year

to get the tax-exempt status. our first red flag was that it took significantly longer and then we got another set of questions, 55 with multiple parts and bullets. and those questions were way outside the bounds of what the government should be asking. >> like what? >> okay. for example, they wanted to know, information about our members who, they associate with... they -- what really alarms me the most is i think they wanted to know our donors' names, personal information about them. they wanted to know whether they were going to run for office or have ever run for office. the whole point of a 501c 4 is so that donors can donate anonymously. a lot of people don't want their names attached to a political organization whether they give money. what impact this had on the richmond tea party, people were afraid to give money and that directly impacts our operation. tell me what "z" street is.

>> it's an educational organization whose mission is to provide accurate information about israel in particular and the middle-east in general. >> all right. in 2009, the organization filinged for 501c3, a charitable status. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> to make donations to be deducted like any other charity with that status? >> that's right. >> what happened to your 2009 application -- have you gotten charitable deduction status yet? >> no. we didn't. the irs put our application on hold. >> why? >> because we had the temerity to see the -- sue the irs for what we building was viewpoint discrimination. >> what was the viewpoint discrimination that you believe the irs has against your organization? >> let me tell you what happened. after we filed in late december of '0 19, by that summer, we hadn't yet received word about whether we were going forward. the agent assigned to our file

told our lawyer that the reason it was being held up was because the irs toh to give special scrutiny to organizations connected to israel. the irs agent also told our lawyer that some of those organizations were going to be sent to a special unit in washington to determine whether or not weather the organization's positions contradict those of the administration. at that point, we knew that is classic viewpoint discrimination. we knew we had to bring an action. we brought a lawsuit against the irs, "z" street versus douglas shulman, who was the commissioner of the irs. after we filed our lawsuit, the irs began having several different positions on why it was taking so long. one of which was because terrorism happens in israel. therefore, they had to look into our organization because they thought we might be funding

terrorism. we are a purely educational entity. we didn't fund anybody. we barely funded ourselves. >> you are part of the cincinnati tea party group, is that correct? >> that's correct. cincinnati tea party. >> all right. and another tea party group with which huno connection was seeking tax-exempt status, is that right? >> that's correct. >> all right. so how did you learn your name got put in a questionnaire to them? >> well, whether they received their irs letter, they being the liberty township tea party, one of their board members called to let me know they got their letter, which at the time was not a particular surprise, but also called to tell me question number 26, the one that asks, describe your relationship with justin binik-thomas. >> after you got that call -- i have a copy of the questionnaire with that particular question, number 26 -- i read it with my own eyes. what do do you? did you contact to the irs?

>> di, through my congresswoman who was jane schmidt at the time. she helped to reach out to the irs on my behalf. >> what did the irs say? >> nothing. they denied that they asked about individuals within these groups. despite having a copy of that letter included in the query. >> straight ahead, secret seizure, the president of the associated press calling the justice department seizing of phone records unconstitutional. it is not just the a.p., the d.o.j. targeting fox news, too. that scandal is next. and the benghazi emails. we'll show you what is in the hundred pages that the white house released. but where are the other 25,000 pages? the latest on that scandal, coming up. ht brothers became the first in flight. [ goodall ] i think the most amazing thing is how like us these chimpanzees are. [ laughing ] [ woman ] can you hear me? and you hear your voice? oh, it's exciting!

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20 associated press reporters and editors over a two month period. >> an overbroad and secretive taking of a massive amount of telephone records from ap. >> other than press reports we no knowledge of any attempt by the justice department to seek phone records of the associated press. we are not involved at the white house in any decisions made in connection with ongoing criminal investigations. >> i don't know what happened there about with interaction between the ap and the justice department. i was recused from the case. >> the the feds keeping tabs on another journalist. the targeted journalist is fox news chief washington correspondent james rosen. >> seized the phone records and went through and read his e-mails and tracked his comings and goings inside the state department. does the president approve of that kind of action by the justice department against a reporter? >> i will refer you to what the

president said in response to a question about another matter along these lines and that is that he is a strong defender of the first amendment. and a firm believer of the need for the press to be able to conduct investigative reporting and facilitate a free flow of information. >> new information is coming out about the case involving james rosen and because the legal filing made in the case by the u.s. attorney's office what we found is they weren't only going after records for him personally but because we have the area code and exchanges several important fox lines and lines that feed into the white house and several reporters and producers cell phones as well. >> greta: and we spoke with the lawyer representing the associated press in this case. david schulz. >> what provoked the government to finally tell the ap it had seized the records? >> the government told ap that it had seized the records because it is required to do so under the department of justice

guidelines. if they seize records without prior notice they are obligated to let the press know in no more than 9 90 days and that is what happened here. >> greta: when were the records seized? >> i'm sorry? >> greta: when were the records seized? >> we don't know. it basically said we are telling you pursuant to the regulations we seized the records of these 20 phone lines. we don't know. sometime in the last 90 days because they were required to give notice within 90 days. whether it was three months ago or last month we don't know. >> greta: do you have any sense of whether it was to seek information or intimidate? any sort of almost gut sense as to what this was? >> well, you know, i take the department of justice at its word when it says this was part of a leaks investigation that they have done a number of other steps and that they felt that this was fe needed but that really isn't sufficient. there is always going to be the

conflict between the government's right to keep its secrets and the ability of the press to have a zone of protection to talk with sources and know the activity tion are independent of government monitoring. that line is going to exist and somebody has to draw the boundaries. there were regulations put in place after the watergate scandal to help mediate that determination. and there are a dum number of restrictions put on the department of justice that seem to have been violated or ignored here in a rather dramatic way. >> greta: seems they would have given you notice in advance if they thought you would be cooperative and they didn't because what are you going to do, destroy the records? i don't know how you get rid of the phone records. but there is a reason they didn't tell you. >> there were two fundamental problems spelled out in the letter to the department of justice. one was the massive nature of what was done. there were 20 phone lines in a number of bureaus that involve

phones that probably 100 or so reporters had access to. all of the outgoing calls on everything they dealt with. it was really giving the government a road map. that is the sort of information the government has to right to have. that was number one was the breadth and the point you are raising the guidelines put in place in the 1970s say the press is supposed to be given advance notice when the government needs information critical to a criminal investigation and allowed to negotiate to be sure to protect their own interests. that didn't happen here. >> greta: first the the associated press and then fox news. what is going on with the justice department targeting journalists? washington examiner chief political correspondent byron york joins us. are they improperly targeting journalists or are we a tad bit oversensitive at fox news because it is us? >> i think they are improperly targeting journallities.

we heard cases where a journalist went to jail in a leaked case and they refused to reveal confidential sources and that has always been a tension between the justice department and journalists and usually turned out to be nothing. usually leak investigations went no where. this is a whole new dimension in which the justice department at least in the james rosen case suggested that the reporter was a criminal. >> actually said that in the affidavit. said he was part of a criminal conspiracy. >> coconspirator and might even be a flight risk. the fox news chief correspondent being a flight risk. this appears to be a new step for the justice department. the other thing is we now know that they seized the phone records from the ap. not just a fox thing. seized phone records from ap and fox as well. i tell you, you ask any washington journalist if they believe these are the only times they have ever done this i think people are wanting to see what else has been done by this justice department.

>> greta: the thing that i think is most telling under the department of justice guide lipes in the '70s, they are supposed to give notice to the news organizations before they subpoena them. the reason they didn't here is they claim they could be destroyed. james rosen doesn't even have the records. you would have to believe the phone company who is not a target wanted to destroy the records or might in order to do this. they blew up they're own guidelines and for what purposes. >> they did go to the phone companies and went to google to look at the james rosen's e-mails. they cooperate with the justice department because they don't have a whole lot of choice. the point is the target of this, if you will, the reporter doesn't have any control of this and justice department guidelines are exactly right. the immediate organization if they are under some investigation in a leak

investigation the justice department comes to them and they negotiate over what is needed. maybe the justice department wants everything from the whole office and the media organization says that is too broad, let's talk about this. allowedfox nor ap was' loued to do that because the justice department did it all in secret. >> greta: byron, thank you. straight ahead, many republicans insisting the benghazi coverup is not over yet. congressman inintroducing g the greatt weekekend sale a at hotwire.e. any y weekend hohotel stay,, anywywhere, whenen you bookk a hohotwire hot t rate.

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>> greta: whistle blowers coming forward and telling congress what happened in bepgz benghazi on september 11th, 2012 and the white house after pushing 1100-pages of e-mails, the benghazi scandal far from

over. more than eight months after the terror attack many lawmakers insist the white house coverup continues. >> the real question he here is where was the president of united states when benghazi burned? when the u.s. ambassador to the united states was assassinated? >> was he in the situation room? yes. >> was kept up to date throughout the day. >> do you not know whether he was -- >> he don't know what room the president was in on that night and that is a largely irreelection vapt fact. >> on september 11th, 2012 four americans were murdered by terrorists. these witnesses deserve to be heard on the benghazi attacks, the flaws in the accountability review board methodology, process and conclusions. >> do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> the military was told to stand down. not engage in a fight. these are the kind of people

willing to engage. where did that message come down? where did the standdown order come from? >> i believe it came from either africa or south africa. >> fast forward, mr. hicks to the sunday talk shows and ambassador susan rice. she blamed the attack on a individual joe. in fact, she did it five different times. what was your reaction to that? >> i was stunned. my jaw yo dropped and i was embarrassed. >> any one listening to the hearing today if they don't have questions there was some comment made about well there was a few people in libya that had a problem h with the you tube video but the overwhelming evidence is this was a terrorist attack. everybody knew it but you yet someone higher up decided to run with the story and facade and kept it for a long time. >> when ambassador stevens talked to you perhaps minutes before he died as a dying declaration what presizely did he say to you? >> he said greg, we are under

attack. >> the fact is we had four dead americans. it was because of a protest or guys out for a walk one night who decided they would go kill some americans? what difference at this point does it make? >> it makes a difference in who is responsible for these men's death. >> greta: these are the benghazi e-mails. more than 100 released by the white house. >> let's put it in perspective, bob. nearly 25,000 documents they haven't released. release those. >> greta: and congressman jason chaffetz joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> thanks, greta. >> greta: benghazi a coverup or sloppy government and how do you tell the difference. >> just over 8 months away and i think it is clear they are covering up a lot of inadequacies. still have major questions that haven't been answered. terrorists that have not been captured or killed. we have four dead american is. more questions than ever and an administration that will not

live up to the president's promise of openness and transparency. are ha is not happening and leads me to the conclusion this is, indeed, a coverup. >> greta: why would they want to cover up this? embarrassed or a more sinister reason? >> that is why congress is looking at it. in the united states of america we are open and transparent and is self-critical to learn from the mistakes and make sure it never happens again. i hope the moity expectations is not more sinister but it is often the lack of can dorland beginning that leads to the problems down the road. >> greta: how many americans on the ground at benghazi on september 11th? >> more than two dozen. the congress and the american people have never heard from somebody on the ground in benghazi. we heard from the chief of mission gregory hicks with amazing testimony he gave in congress. but he was in tripoli. we have not heard from anybody on the ground in benghazi.

>> greta: we not? >> this is one of the great mystery. if you are going to be open and transparent, make them available to the congress. they seem to be suppressed. certainly the state department will not allow us access to those and access to the e-mails and information and document its that we have. think witabout it. they released 100 documents but you there is over 25,000 that we know of. >> greta: the fbi went and spoke to some of the survivors. have you seen copies of notes from conversations that the fbi had or anything about the conversations because that is a short time after benghazi happened. >> we still do not have from the various you different agencies including the state department the transscripts and information. we have been asking for let us have the details of the accountability review board. let us see the notes from those and talk to the same people. >> greta: what is the answer when you say can i have that?

>> the answer is just a no. >> greta: got to have a reason. it's mine. in it's ours? can't have it? >> we issued the first subpoena out o the ground the door to ambassador pickering. we will do it the hard way. there is an easy way if the president will do what they simply said they will do. it is just not happening. >> greta: they don't give a reason why? they he just say no? >> these are unclassified documents. >> greta: even the classified there is some question whether it should be classified but that is a whole another story. the recently released e-mails shedding some light on the talking point changes. do they tell the complete story? and what about the video. how did that become such a big part of the obama administration story. the weekly standard's steve hayes joins us. nice to see you, steve. >> hi, greta. >> greta: any explanation as to

why it became part of the talking points? >> if you look at the subject lines of the deputy's committee meeting on saturday morning the day before susan rice went on ows and sold the stories about the video. the subject line was movies, protests and violence. >> greta: but nothing in the body of the e-mails themselves? >> nothing in the bodies of the e-mails themselves and could be the case that that subject line was referring to the movie more broadly, to violence more broadly around the region, not just necessarily in benghazi. >> greta: we got about 100 e-mails but seemed to be -- there are gaps in times. i don't know if nobody was e-mailing that particular time. 14thseem to start the 4 of september and the incident happened on the 11th of september. hi idea the e-mail -- any idea the e-mails between the 11th and the 14th? maybe there aren't any. >> we should see the e-mails. if the administration is chitted to being transparent

they should value voters no problems providing the e-mails. we have seen an e-mail from the acting assistant secretary of state who said on september 12 ansar al-sheridaia was behind the attacks. what was the information that led to the conclusion? there are many questions from the look at these 100 e-mails that sugar not only interesting e-mails -- suggest not only interesting e-mails before that but also a lot of offline conversations people may have had. there was an e-mail of david petraeus then cis director in which he complains about what was included in the talk points. that he wouldn't use them if they could. he said they cut this out and they didn't use that either. there is no sign in the e-mail what the either was referring to. >> greta: as recent in november was the first request for the e-mails and took about six months for them to produce

e-mails. the white house hand picks which they want us to see. when there are huge gaps in time i'm curious where are the rest of them. the gaps and i suppose they will say they are classified but the ones they released they claimed were classified to begin with. that was hardly classified material. >> the vast majority of the e-mails are not classified. things that the white house could provide if they wanted to. beyond the e-mails, remember, conversations that tookversats place. phone calls that presumably took place between senior officials at the state department and at the white house and the cia that are referred to again in the e-mails that we have already seen. what happened in those conversations and why won't they share that with us? >> greta: if they want this, they have all of the materials and they cannent the mystery by just giving us everything and not making us pound so hard to get it. >> i'm with you. >> greta: how is the administration doing? dana p

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>> greta: three scandals all breaking out in a week. the obama administration playing a constant game of dodge. white house press secretary jay carney feeling the heat at the daily briefings. how did he do? dana was press secretary for president george w. bush and joins us. nice to see you, dana. >> nice to be here, thanks. >> greta: how is the press secretary handling this? >> hard for me to know because i don't have all of the information and nobody seems to the have all of the information. i know that one of the things that i always tried to do is just to say that whenever you think that you are in a position to criticize or comment on the press secretary perform are mans yoance you net is actually behind the scenes and this is the case in this regard. i think that he has been at risk of his own credibility being eroded but it is not

about him. the press secretary job is not about the press secretary ever. it doesn't matter, it is only about the credibility piece. >> greta: except to the extent he doesn't have credibility for the white house it is credibility that reflects on him. the question is he in the loop and what kind of information is he telling. should he be in the loop. should he get the information so he doesn't have to come out with different versions as each day passs. >> i presume he is in the loop. maybe we will find out in the future years to what extent. it does seem very odd to me some of their strategy to suggest to the president that it was a good idea for him not to know anything when the president has top secret clearance. presumably he with keep a secret. a constitutional lawyer. presumably he can understand the law. i cannot imagine scenario where i have would advocated or ease been list -- or even been

listened to if i had been told something should not be told to the president. especially the irs piece. that is one of the most egrigious examples and when it comes to the investigation of reporters. seems they only got outraged when they found out the press coverage would be bad for them. they weren't outraged before. for the white house, the credibility question he goes to that piece. which is if you have an abuse of authority and you don't recognize it beforehand and don't get in front of it and you are caught flat footed you are going to have problems digging out of what i call the credibility deficit. republicans smart a credibility deficit and have to work up to neutral. the press corps has basically allowed the government to be operating inside a moon bounce for the last couple of years and protected from all sorts of sharp elbows and how to know

are finding out what it is like to deal with a bureaucracy run amuk or possibly political interferences into all of the situations. >> greta: dana, thank you. and straight ahead, a look at the scandals from the other side. what would democratic strategist joe trippi tell

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>> greta: irs targeting conservatives and these months later still unanswered questions about ben gazy. how does the obama administration survive the second term scandal? so, joe, what advice to you have for the white house? >> there is a big problem. most of them how they handled

it. it just is amazing in my view political malpractice in terms of how ham handed they've been. not just their responses but their nonresponses, i mean, everything is beyond a pail. you're starting to gets democrats and republicans, just crossing party lines inconsiderate six they're getting in calls for them to handle them differently to get facts out there. >> greta: how do they dig themselves out of this? they're on the hot seat. you've got situations where jay carney with different responses. this irs meeting started april 24th notification they're near the end of preparing the report now getting more information that more people were involved. >> that is the whole point. everything we know about every administration when something like this happens get it out, get the facts out as fast as you can. and deal witness. because the drip, drip, drip, and spur of the ring of more information or things that you

didn't put out immediately that sort of drip out every day, just continues to make the original problem worse. and that is where i think they are on both the ap first amendment james rosen hits against the press, and first amendment rights, and on irs, where you're on both of those you're seeing bipartisan voices on the left, voices on the right joining together and saying... you know, the way you're handling this isn't right. we want more facts. >> greta: 30 seconds left. what do they do? come out of this with a dump truck full of facts, this is it get behind them? >> yes. until friday night at 5:00. >> greta: that is the friday slot? >> that is how they've been handling these things is not working so i think that they've got to re, i think they've got to reset, get a reset button. >> greta: joe, thank you.

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