>> what do you think of that, adam? >> it is fine. i would want to mimic the s&p 500 and all of the stock markets and not just the dow industrial average. >> i want to thank all of you. david asbin is forbes on fox is next. >> we still don't know who ordered agents to do it or why, but the irs targeting of conservative and the massive tax code and agents are out of control. and now more americans are saying enough is enough. is it time to fix the mess, something that steve forbes is advocated for years. >> it is a flat tax. and simple flat tax. >> and is stove right? the simple flat tax the way to

tame the irs beast. i am dave asbin. we'll go to stove forbes and elizabeth and rich and rick and mike. so steve, complexitty is part of the problem here. that is corrupt folks that are hiding in the complexitty of the scandal, are they not? >> they are, david. no one understands it. including the irs. you call the hot line and they give you the wrong answer and brings out the worst in all of us, especially at tax time. is that a reduction and it corrupts the government and gives irs discretion to go after you. a simpler tax code would be simpler. >> rick, look at what the president's own aid david axel rod, part of being president so much beneath you, you can't know

because the government is so vast. complexitty is a great excuse for avoiding responsibility for this. >> well, let me deal with the flat tax. i love the retrospective on steve, that was cool. i would be all for a flat tax with modification with the lower end of the economic stream stove also had to say. i don't think you wouldn't end up with a cent thousand page code again. why? much of the current code is much of special interest. they are not going away just because we turn into a flat tax. as for the irs. i have run a large company but no where near as large as what the president sits on top of for the united states government. >> does it have to be that large? >> they push for making it larger. >> this is the argument you guys

should make all along. >> rich, the fact is, president not only made government larger but irs larger, as part of obama care we'll have 17,000 more irs agents. it is the complexitty of the internal revenue service that is part of the problem, right? >> to rick's point, he may be right. if we flattened it could become complex. that is not a reason not to flatten it. start with something simple and if it becomes complex blow it up again. we haven't had follow-uppedmental tax reform since 1986 and we are way overdue. the whole irs store tore dove tails with the apple story and this polarized. does apple pay enough taxes in if you have a simple code it would be easy for everybody to see if follow. >> john, the question of

accountability, we need accountability and right now, we don't have any with the irs. >> no, we don't. i love steve's flat tax because it is a huge improvement on what we have. it does penalize income and causes us to prove your income to the irs. and i would prefer a national sales tax. that is the only way we can restrain what we give to the obnorthbounds beast and lower revenues to the federal government and not more. >> you can hide corrupgz in complexitty. that's one of the lessons of the scandal, right? >> by the way. axel rod gave a ringing endorsement to what the tea party talked about and they are nailed for it. political corrupgz is now dangerously possible systemic in the irs and that is an agency

that has an intimate part of our lives and that's what is scaring people and the fact that we are reporting income to a brutal agency. the political corrupgz is so bad. we found ten congressman going after the irs with letters saying you have to do more to investigate the nonprofits. that is flat out wrong. >> mike, again, the question of getting rid of the complexitty and making it simpler, this president is making it more complex. i mentioned obama care before. >> the irs is the enforcement arm of that. if you think it is bad now wait until they get your hands on permanent records. they charge for hospital community activities. what does that mean? you have to start with obama care before you get to the flat tax. >> this is an organization that

destroys lives and business even before the people are proven guilty. >> any piece of legislation requires enforcement. if you have a problem with the irs enforcing the payment of the person -- penalty. >> we are suggesting you switch to the flat tax and get rid of the bureaucracy that is causing the problem. >> i was talking about flat tax, it would do that. that is a major source of c corrupt. we'll start all over again and trying to junk it up in the future. simple is best. put something in the code you

don't know approximate it six months later. >> everybody can see what happens. the problem is this administration said we will be transparent and look what is happening. >> it is the least transparent in history. the time that we waste satisfying the irs and satisfying congress. the flat tax is the same amount of time you do your dishes and that is as much time you should spend on your taxes and add a nuisance tax on the u.s. congress if they are doing something that is making progress they think and we have to live under. it is not right and unhealthy for the american people to feel like they are bad every time they fill out their tax return. >> stove, we have run out of time. we have pushed it for a long time. is it reasonable to expect out of that crisis and scandal we'll

have a flat tax? >> absolutely. in 2016, a lot of candidates will advocate this and simpson bowls came out bipartis an. not as a flat tax. but they removed tax shelter, you touch one and touch them all. the momentum will be drastic simplicity and a code that doesn't bring out of the worst in all of us. >> i hope you are right. so is the reason we are not getting to the bottom of the mess is the worker's union. cashin crews looking at that. senator tom coburn's from oklahoma, he said any extra disaster funds to be rebuilt there could be paid for by cutting the government's budget. is he right? the answer next. . with scottrade's online banking,

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>> hi, everybody. we are live from america's news headquarters. i am jamie colby. a frightening scene in missouri. two freight trains collided and burst in flames. one train broadsided the other and causing it to derail and hit a pillar in the over pass. two vehicles were in the over pass at the time. the cause of that crash is under investigation. there are new developments in the london terror attack. uk security forces arresting a friend of one of the suspects arrested in the killing of the british soldier following a bizarre interview with the bbc. how the men were left free to kill an off doubt soldier. i will so you again 1 o'clock p.m. eastern back to forbes on

fox. >> oklahomans are rebuilding and cleaning up. the damage will top $2 billion and now the debate over how to pay for it. oklahoma senator tom coburn said additional disaster funds raised to the state should be offset with spending cuts. rich, you say he is right, why? >> this is the benefit of having people not running for reelection like senator coburn because they speak the truth. in and household and business, if you haven't saved up in a rainy day, you take it out of cash flow and means you take it out of other things. i wish the u.s. government would run that way and we would not be in the deficit and size and debt. >> i am sympathetic. but the fact is americans want to cut spending. but with holding funds for the

victims who face a unbelievable tragedy to their town is not the way to accomplish this or good politics. in the aftermath of super storm sandy and all sorts of pork in that bill, we have to be careful. i am not sure coburn's approach is the correct one. >> emac, you did a lot of reporting in hurricane sandy and a lot of the funding supposed to go to the victims went to buildings fixed up in dc. there was misuse for the funds for sandy. >> it feels like there is a disaster and the disaster hits dc and not the other parts of the country that suffered. dc puts them in big pork wagop. in the 90s, the government cut first and offset by cutting

elsewhere in the budget. under the clinton administration you saw that. and both sides of the aisle agreed to. that yes, we have to get the money to the people in oklahoma and our hearts go out to the victims and i want to get them the money. this is an issue for congress. and rich is right, they have to do it right, and be correct and fair. >> senator coburn is consistent. ine after the awful bombing in oklahoma city. he made sure funs were off cut in the budget. and sandy funding, he anyhow there was a lot of pork projects and so he is consistent. >> he is consistent and this is not the way to get real budget reform. just allows people to portray him as heartless. but the costs are two to throw hundred million because people had insurance and they can get out of the fema budget and do

extra funding and allow it to be a pork wagon. in the future, we need reform. this is not the vehicle to do it. >> i 100 percent agree with steve. i am wondering why we are having the conversation. 12 pillion is in the fema fund. when you started adding tape. taxpayers and victims on the ground. historically we saw it with hurricane catrinna. it is an issue and maul businesses that are hurt and i live in lower manhattan and small businesses that were hurt in super storm sandy and they close the doors and will not be reopening them. njohn, it is one thing to be against red tape. that is a good thing. can you be against the pork

spending. it is a very dangerous when we federalized disasters and people in new mexico have to pay for something unthinkable and we have to top doing this if the federal government stays out of this. people will be more careful about the insurance and good in place when the unthinkable strikes. >> steve, about that that is the lib terian view. and most people are it is two or throw hundred million. they can got the budget reform. and the wake of the disaster like this is not getting the job done.

there is ammunition to the opposition. and make it part of a real reform. get aid there get it on the other part of the budget. >> rich, you are holding up most of the argument by yourself. go a head. >> i agree it is bad politics but there is plain spoken people like senator coburn and retired senator allen simpson that will speak the inconvenient truth. i say get the aid to the people as soon as possible. >> we like plain speaking in politics. coming up. forget buyer beware. retailer beware. why they could be opening themselves up to lawsuits from customers.

atteniton shoppers. you can

>> retailers rolling out memorial day sales. they better be careful. a judge ruling that shoppers can sue kohls after customers said the markdowns are bogus. sabrina said stores should be able to advertise and price they want. explain the flip side. >> this is absurd. we know that marketing is about perception and kohls wants to be perceived as a low cost. it is about personal

responsibility. the e-mail was filled with memorial day sales. what if i actually acted on them? my bank account would be empty. we have to remember there is a important layer of personal responsibility. >> we should mepgz kohls dispute the allegation and rejects claims of false advertising. it comes down to buyer be aware. >> that's the point. that's what you want it to come down to. buyer beware. sabrina, would you expect that those e-mails with sales would be lies? if you are going to send out an e-mail saying we have things on sale shouldn't it be on sale? in california, the people passed a law that required that there be truth in that kind of advertising. >> hold on. before sabrina answers, i have to say, mike, that there is always an exageeration in the

sales, is this not >> the ninth circuit court is most liberal in the country and rulings typically get overturned by the supreme court. and the lower court ruled no financial harm to shoppers. it is the liberal court trying to pay back the tort lawyers. >> and morgan, all we need is more lawyers in our lives, right? >> wait a second. ftc constitutes what is the sale and isn't. there are court cases and i take false advertising whether it is real, i take it seriously. in the end of the day it undermines consumer confidence. and we saw this to a huge extent with the mortgage industry. i take it seriously and people should be allowed to take the lawsuit forward. whether they wins a different sore store. >> steve, you can sue anybody

for anything. the way to interpert every detail of things. we have enough lawyers and we don't need more, do we? >> no. we don't in the days of hand held and pc. you can check if it is a good price or not. >> it comes back to the idea of buyer beware. >> as someone who spent time in the courts, i tell you, these kines of cases are not jamming up the california courts. come on. >> just wait, that is at least is -- stocks are on sale and that's the truth. [ male announcer ] hunt...farm...or trail... polaris has what you want.

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>> and we are back. forget about memoral day. we have stocks on sale that make you money. and emac you look at current forbes magazine. npepisco is doing great. it will take on coke big time. >> and the woman on the cover is meg whit man of hullard packard. what do you think of peps co. >> i like pepsi but i like coke better. >> you prefer marathon petroleum as a stock pick, why >> i do. goldman sachs said it is undervalued and has a potential upside of 50 percent. >> worried approximate it. epa rules will hit the refining trae hard and possibly 10-12 in

the new year of the rule. >> thank you, ladies. that's it for forbes on fox. keep it right here. we'll have eric bolling and cashin' in. >> this is firing up the holiday bar-b-que and pressure rising for more heads to the roll in the irs. are unions standing in the way. first the ap and then fox news. are you on the white house enemy list? >> and a twister that hit the senator said this. >> the damage that your polluters and denoticers doesn't just hit oklahoma, obama and teixeira. >> he is apologizing but