weeks of chemotherapy. his family has been through a lot. we love watching the video but we know it's important to keep up with them and what they're doing next. we like sharing that with you. thanks for following that and thanks for joining us today. >> "america live" starts right now. fox news alert. on a new bombshell in a growing washington scandal. as fox news confirms that the house judiciary committee is now investigating whether the attorney general of the united states lied to congress under oath. welcome to america live, everybody. i'm megyn kelly. this new twist breaking in the last hour. it involves testimony that the attorney general gave on may 15th. during that sworn testimony mr. holder told lawmakers that he had never been involved in the potential prosecution of the press for disclosure of material. that statement came just hours before reports surfaced that

mr. holder had signed off on a warrant targeting fox news correspondent james rosen. well, we didn't learn that he personally signed off on it until late last week, but now we know he did, and some are questioning whether that is grossly inconsistent with what he told congress. he, the doj, tracked james' movements in and out of the state department. they got a hold of james' personal g-mail e-mail. they went so far as to get the phone records of mr. and mrs. rosen, his parents. now we know the way they did all that, without providing any notice to james so he would have no opportunity to object to any of this, was by naming him as a co-conspirator and potential aider and abettor of espionage for doing his job. there wasn't more and he disclosed it to the russians. i mean, it was basically pure reporting activity.

he sought out a source, told that source that he would like to break news ahead of his competitors on news worthy items. that's what the fbi affidavit accused him of doing and said that that amounted to aiding and abetting espionage. then the attorney general knowing at the time, and keep in mind at the time that eric holder gave his testimony, he knows he personally signed off on the search warrant. we didn't know it, congress didn't know it, but when holder gave testimony on may 15th, he knows he signed off on it. now they're accusing him of lying. watch. >> i would argue that the espionage act of 1917 would authorize the prosecution of anyone who disclosed classified information and perhaps that's another area that we may need to take action on here in this congress.

>> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something that i've ever been involved in or heard of or would think would be a wise policy. >> joining me now, our fox news digital politics editor and host of power play on foxnews.com live. chris, good to see you. now it's official. the house judiciary committee is looking into, as we have more and more calls for eric holder to step down, to resign, and now they're coming not just from the right but from some on the left as well. now we have the house judiciary committee saying this man may have lied to us under oath which is a much, much bigger problem. >> yeah. i should say so. and beyond that, the only plausible defense of mr. holder offered in this would be to say well, i didn't sort of like we've heard from hillary clinton and others on other unrelated issues in the obama administration, they say i can't review everything closely.

i capture pay attention to everything that i sign. there's so much. that may be the biggest thing here because as they tried to push holder on the issue of perjury, they may get to this all-important question here. how many, mr. attorney general, how many times have your lawyers named people as they did with james rosen as a possible co-conspirator in an effort to snoop on them, to spy on them? how often has this happened? holder has been very vague on the subject and non-responsive. as they have perjury as a means, as a crowbar to pry stuff out of him, things could get very interesting. >> i asked that before the rosen scandal broke. how many of us have you spide on, and when did you do it, and why, if we weren't given notice, weren't we given notice? i mean, because it is one thing for the doj to go into a courtroom to get your phone and e-mail records. it's quite another for them not to give you any notice.

the way our justice system works is you provide notice to the other side, even if you don't like to. it's just the constitutional rights that kick in and protect us, and they got around them in this case by saying rosen was a criminal himself, that he was a potential co-conspirator in the case and therefore notifying him of this search would have basically busted up their investigation of rosen and now we have holder, you know, on tape, now that we know that he personally signed off on the search warrant, chris. it raises all sorts of questions about that testimony he gave to congress. now, i'm not saying he could have -- he may have sat before congress and said i'm not going afro sen. -- after rosen. that's not what they led the courts to believe when they sought that search warrant, and so it's a question of did you lie to congress or did you lie to the judges? >> when one is embroiled in a canada as big as this one -- a scandal as big as this one, and

this is shaping up to be the magilla, and all administrations in the second term expect to have some of this stuff. this is shaping up to be the magilla because it's close to the white house. it's the attorney general. it's abuse of power. it's all of this stuff, so as this expands, what we'll expect to hear from holder is we're moving on and we'll put safeguards into place. you can't outrun stuff like this until you've answered the question that you, counselor, rightly identified which is how many, how often, give us the details, tell us why. until they do that, we won't know how big and how bad this will be. >> do we have the npr sound? tucker, do we have it? i'm waiting for it. yeah, we've got it. listen to what eric holder said to npr when he was asked that question, how many, how often, right after the ap scandal broke but before the rosen scandal broke. >> i'm not sure how many of those cases that i have actually

signed off on. i take them very seriously. i know that i have refused to sign a few, pushed a few back for modifications. >> i take them very seriously, so he wants us to believe that this is a big deal at the department of justice, and i had michael mukasey, the former attorney general, last week who said these are a big deal. i ad ma had andrew mccarthy, a r doj prosecutor, who prosecuted a bomber. when you go after reporter's phone records and mail, trust me, it's a big deal. i take him at his word, that it is a big deal. how can he turn around and say all right, i signed off on the rosen thing, but i didn't really remember that. when i was talking to congress and telling them that i have never been involved in potential criminal prosecution of a reporter? again, it could be that he never planned to prosecute rosen, okay, but then why, chris, why

did the u.s. attorney for d.c. go into court when trying to keep the whole thing secret and argue, and this is a quote from the brief, some investigations, this is why they want to keep the investigation open for years on rosen's e-mail account. some investigations are conditioned for many years because while the evidence is not yet sufficient to bring charges, it is sufficient to have identified criminal subjects and/or criminal activity serious enough to justify continuation of the investigation. this guy is telling the judge they needed to keep monitoring because a crime could be charged, a crime could be charged. and so there's a real question about whether holder gets out of this. can he sort of consume

everything in this, take spobilityd for iresponsibility a new attorney general comes in. every day he's in there and these questions go unanswered, doesn't matter how much he new zealandles reporters and -- newn u.d zzles reporter but until there's transparency and accountability, it's not going away and it will get worse for this administration. >> still a lot of questions here that we'll get to in this show including number one, whether he will be found to have lied before congress, number two, whether he should be forced to step down, number three, whether this charm offensive, as you put it, is going to have any impact. basically they spoke to the daily beast in an article that is entitled holder's regrets and repairs. they go on about how the gravity of the situation didn't really fully sink in until the "washington post" story on rosen broke and now he's feeling a

creeping sense of personal remorse and so on and so forth. well, where was that remorse when you were going after mr. and mrs. rosen, not to mention james? we'll talk about all of this as we proceed through the show. chris, thank you. we'll ask whether eric holder, now knowing what we know, can he investigate himself. he's supposed to be reviewing this per president obama. how can he do that objectively in the wake of these facts? that's coming up. also breaking news out of florida where we're getting new reaction to a major ruling in the george zimmerman murder trial that starts in june. a florida judge placing some strict limits on what zimmerman's lawyers can say about trayvon martin's past and what evidence they can pursue. zimmerman'zimmerman's attorney a few moments ago saying the evidence that was rejected may still be introduced when the trial begins next month. >> the martin family through their handlers presented a

picture of who trayvon was and who george was that was wholly inaccurate. this evidence just short of shows that. again, i don't have the luxury as a criminal defense attorney to look at this and say i'm just going to ignore this and never, ever use it under any circumstances. >> trace gallagher following all this for us from our west coast newsroom. phrase? >> reporter: you can see defense attorney mark o'mara putting a brave face. the bottom line is pretty much he got shut out today. he wanted to delay the trial by six weeks because he said he was not getting the discovery fast enough from the prosecution. the judge, deborah nelson, denied that saying the trial will go forward as scheduled beginning on june 10th. the judge also ruled that the defense cannot bring up trayvon martin's past marijuana use, his high school suspensions, his alleged participation in school fights, some of them reportedly on video tape, and the defense cannot mention in their opening statements that trayvon martin had marijuana in his system.

the judge also denied o'mara's request to bring the jury to the scene of the shooting. here now are the attorneys on both sides. listen. >> i'm very happy with the judge's rulingsment we were hoping that we would have some limitations on people commenting upon information that is not yet relevant, so the idea that the state has to be careful in how they present their case and certainly we're going to be careful in how we present ours. that's exactly what we are hoping for. >> this case should be tried on what happened that night and what george zimmerman knew at that time. he knew nothing about trayvon martin's past. >> reporter: one of the big rulings yet to be made is whether to allow testimony from a prosecution audio expert who said he cleaned up the 9-1-1 tapes and he can hear trayvon martin say i'm begging you. remember, the fbi and the police heard none of that. there was only one witness who made a 9-1-1 call. she believes it was george zimmerman who was screaming for help. a pair of navy seals who

gave their lives in benghazi honored in a special tribute that you probably didn't see until today. tough new questions about two women who find themself front and center of the irs scandal. why do they appear to be getting a pass and a paycheck? ♪

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>> megyn: your reaction now to major developments in the last 24 hours that could affect the future of war-torn syria and possible american involvement. it started when we learned yesterday that senator john mccain made a secret trip to that country to meet rebel commanders fighting the assad regime. then the eu announced that it will lift its embargo and start shipping weapons to the rebel groups, keeping in mind we're not sure who is part of those rebel groups right now. now russia has jumped in saying it is going to start sending more weapons to the government forces. they're pro say sad. raffle peters iwhat a mess. now you've got everybody jumping in and picking a side and

rearming and bolstering up the ammo from those who are killing each other, and john mccain goes over there to try to help the rebels who we wons were rooting for -- once were rooting for, but today we don't know who to root for, ralph. >> indeed we don't. i'm all for not rooting for anybody. i certainly cannot understand why we would want to support a team whose offensive line is dominated by al-qaeda and other if a iif a in ifanatics. john mccain is a personal hero of mine, but we all have weaknesses. he can't seem to fight a conflict he doesn't like. he capture let go of afghanistan. now he wants us to actively support the syrian rebels, and maybe he's right. maybe i'm wrong, but i just cannot see the advantage to this country of supporting a rebel movement that at this point again is increasingly dominated

by fanatics, people who gave us 9/11. that doesn't mean i want to support the government, but my god. i go back to my standard rule. if you don't understand what a fight's about, stay out of a fight. i think that applies here. >> megyn: you've been saying for weeks now we're too late. we had an opportunity, we had a window, it passed and we're too late. explain that. >> well, in the first year i was all for supporting the rebels with judicious armaments, training, intelligence. that's back when they were moderate and there was a large secular element, but strategy isn't just about doing the right thing. it's about doing the right thing at the right time. if you wait too long, you blow your chance. it's just like real life, and increasingly over the last year, year and a half, we have seen these fanatical sunnies come in and increasingly dominate the

movement. right now there's a movement underway in turkey and the moderates and secularists can't get enough seats on the resistance committee to make a difference. so again, we may sympathize and i do with the syrian people, but we have to do what's right for the american people, and supporting anyone related to al-qaeda in even the most remote way is absolute folly. >> megyn: he said and i should mention the senate foreign relations committee approved a bill to arm the syrian opposition, so it's not just mccain, but he says, senator mccain, that if we do nothing in syria, that will further destable yates the middlstabilid threaten our interests abroad. he still thinks we have a window of opportunity there. >> and megyn, this is such a murky situation that maybe he's right, but as a former

intelligence analyst and someone who looked at this region for a long time, what i see is us and the european union belatedly, they're not giving weapons yet, they're threatening to give weapons to the opposition. i see them giving weapons to good guys who are going to lose them to the bad guys. i mean, basically we did this in the 1980s in afghanistan. we were so fixated, and i was part of it. we were so fixated on getting the soviets that we armed the people who turned into al-qaeda and the tal taliban. we don't want to do that again. senator mccain, god when bless , needs to tell me what our vital interests are and he needs to tell me how us getting engaged is going to restabilize an area that is decomposing before our eyes. we can't do everything. we've got to be wise about what we do. megyn, as i think you know, i'm death on terrorism. i believe there are some fights worth fighting, but i don't believe we should be in every

single fight just because there's a fight going on. >> megyn: there was a time. there was a time when one wonders whether we're still there. ralph, thank you. >> thank you, megyn. >> megyn: we're getting new reaction to our top stories as fox news confirms the house judiciary committee is investigating whether the attorney general lied under oath when he was asked about targeting journalists. we'll take a look at how this could affect calls for his resignation which are mounting. and up next, the story behind a special tribute to the two heroes who died while defending our cia annex and lives in benghazi. it is with a sad and heavy heart that i hummably accept this honor on behalf of ty, myself, and most importantly, our son. >> it's a great honor for me and my family. it helps that he died a hero. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle --

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>> megyn: a memorial day came and went this year with tributes to the remaining heroes from world war ii and korea. along with ceremonies for those who died in vietnam, the gulf war, and the war in iraq. we wanted to take a moment today to show you a little of a service in california late yesterday for two heroes who died in libya last september. trace gallagher live in los angeles with more. trace? >> reporter: as you watch the video, megyn, you can see the ceremony was really trying to avoid the political controversy surrounding the death of these two men and really instead trying focus on honoring the sacrifice of glen doherty and tyrone woods. plaques with their names on them now join 3,000 other plaques that surround a cross near san

diego. that, of course, is the military war memorial that has been the target of atheist groups for years. both woods and doherty from san diego were killed while workingg as security contractors at the u.s. consulate in benghazi. while the attack and the aftermath as we know are still under investigation, these two men were honored by a military flyover, the navy band, the navy seals. you see hundreds of people along with their families. listen. >> it is with a sad and heavy heart that i humbly accept this honor on behalf of ty, myself, and most importantly, our son kai. >> american lives were saved. their lives were lost. >> it's a great honor for me and my family. it helps that he died a hero. it gives us -- it mitigates the grief. >> yeah. beneath the photo of tyrone woods is a quote from john f. kennedy that reads, great crises

produce great men and beneath the picture of doherty says he died for others to live. it was a very touching ceremony. just outside san diego, megyn. >> megyn: trace, thanks. well, new questions today about two of the main players front and center in the irs scandal. why is the won who has been -- the 1 who has been placed on leave still getting paid her full $177,000 per year salary, and why is her boss getting what appears to be a promotion? in three minutes, a fair and balanced deblso, new details abt another cruise ship emergency on the high seas. the frightening stories from passengers and how the crew responded in a time of need. plus, new pushbacks from a number of states over a planned change to curriculum in classrooms across this country. [ female announcer ] doctors trust calcium plus vitamin d

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>> megyn: fox news alert on president obama at the jersey shore. he just toured the area to highlight rebuilding efforts there in the neighborhoods, particularlily those damaged during hurricane sandy last fall. the president and new jersey governor chris christie met with families and business owners ahead of the summer tourist season as soon as it kicks off. i was there at the jersey shore this weekend with, and it was beautiful. beautiful. they've got some work to do, but boy, oh, boy. it's fantastic. let's hear what the headline is,

and we'll come back. >> the jersey shore is back in business. the work's not over, though. seven months ago i promised you that your country would have your back. i told you we would not quit until the job is done, and i meant it. i meant it. craig fugate, the head of female, he couldn't be here -- fema, he couldn't be here today, but i want to thank his team for their ongoing work. fema was here before sandy made land fall, and they're here today. they're working with the governor's team and the task force i set up to support communities and families who still need help. since the storm hit, we've provided billions of dollars to families and state and local governments across the region and more is on the way. >> megyn: and they need it. a lot of folks, i have to tell you, being self-reliant. as we walked up and down the jersey shore and drove around yesterday and over the weekend, people using their own funds to replenish the dunes and do plantings on the dunes and take

care of their own landscaping and so on. yes, they got some insurance payments and some payments through fema, but also relying on themselves to help things get back in order, and where we were, it was beautiful. anyway, these remarks streaming to you live on foxnews.com if you care to listen. new questions today about one of the controversies playing the white house, this time the irs' targeting of conservative groups for extra scrutiny, and in particular, a woman named lois lerner. by the time lawmakers return to work next week, there will be no fewer than four different investigations getting underway. there are new questions, however, today about irs staffers at the center of the agency's behavior. one of them, we'll start with her, sarah hall ingram, led the agency's tax-exempt division. she was above lois le ner on the totem pole and seems to be getting a complete pass, actually, a promotion, and the white house defends her as

having done nothing wrong. we continue to try to understand that. another is lois lerner who is on administrative leave after pleading the fifth before the u.s. congress and refusing to answer lawmakers' questions. that's the same as refusing to answer your questions, and she's still collecting her $177,000 per year paycheck. joining me now to discuss it, leslie marshall and chris plant. so lois gets to, you know, her memorial day weekend wasn't three days. it's ongoing. it's indefinite. lois can go work out at the gym, lois can meet her friends for lunch, lois is having a grand old time, i'm sure, and she's getting almost $200,000 a year of our money to do it because instead of firing her, they put her on paid administrative leave. they did that, chris, because when she was asked to resign, according to senator chuck grassley, she refused. that leaves us where? >> isn't that great?

they asked her to resign, she says no, and they say okay. what a deal. you know, apparently anwar needed a better union because the president of the united states decided to unilaterally and without a shred of due process assassinate him, an american citizen overseas who joined al-qaeda, no doubt about it, but he doesn't have the power to fire an irs employee. this is an amazing time in which we live, is it not? the president maintains a kill list in the oval office called a disposition matrix. he personally chooses the people that will be killed, but you can't fire an irs employee. isn't that amazing? >> megyn: president obama can only fire the political appointees at the irs, and he did that. he asked for steve miller's resignation. he left us three weeks prior to when he was scheduled to leave us. >> three weeks. >> megyn: even though it's very hard to fire these bureaucrats, leslie, it's not impossible.

they could fire lerner if they wanted to fire her. banpresident obama can't do it,t he can lean on those who have the power to do it. why don't they? >> first of all, you know they have contracts. can i say chris, i hate the irs and i may feel terrorized by them, but to go from lois lerner to terrorists, come on, buddy. he didn't even flynn of whe flie did it. hay, look. i'm a taxpayer. i literally hate the irs, i do. i think all of us do. however, we have a presumption of innocence in the country. although i say, and megyn, you're an attorney, you know better, when i hear somebody plead the fifth, i think just stamp a g on your forehead for guilty unless you're not. if lois lerner is not guilty, maybe that's why she refuses to testify. >> megyn: let me ask you a follow up because i agree with you in terms of criminality. that's an investigation that needs to play identit out in th. when you assert your fifth amendment rights, that's what

you're preserving. you're protecting yourself from going to jail, but firing her is an entirely different matter, and you know, we have the letters. there's 15 letters in hand with her signature on it to the conservative groups wanting to know who all your friends are, give us all your facebook pages. she was the person in charge, basically, of that division in cincinnati doing this. how much investigation do we need before lois quits collecting $200,000 of taxpayern money. >> thanks for saying that. we don't need a special prosecutor. now we have four investigations going. with the contracts there's something that you know as the ten deadly sins. i believe this is one of the ten. i believe that the government can fire her because i don't know what is revealed and going to be revealed in the upcoming investigations. i don't know why they haven't done that, but i would imagine because everything's going to come out, especially if there's a special prosecutor which is

going to take more time and they'll be paid while that time goes on, chris. in addition, taxpayer money, we're not going to g to know ale facts. right now we can't fire a federal employee for pleading the fifth and can they fire her for signing off if, in fact, she was told to do so by somebody even higher up which i believe the investigation will hopefully reveal? >> megyn: let's talk about that because there is an allegation by some that this is hush money, that they don't want to fire her because if she gets fired, she has at least two administrative appeals where she'll go in there and defend herself and say i know you hate lois lerner, but let me tell you about sarah hall ink gram oingram or joseph granr somebody above them. i don't know how high it goes. there's a question about the reason they don't want to fire her and kick off all those administrative appeals, chris. >> well, look. that's true. i mean, look. public sector unions, even fdr was against them, and it's essentially a corrupt system. what we have here is a corrupt

episode in american history, and i think it will end up being an american presidential history. it's not really just about lois lerner, obviously, and the investigation, four investigations, special prosecutor, whatever it is, who benefitted from this? let's follow the money on this. the money goes to barack obama and to his reelection campaign. it's not money in this case, but it's the reelection effort. this is an incredibly corrupt episode in american government and presidential history, and honestly i think that lois lame, as she's come to know known, is small potatoes in the scheme of things. when she pleads the fifth, you're right. it certainly gives the appearance of her being guilty. this is a great opportunity for americans to peek under the skirt of washington, dc and see what really goes on around here. this is your government at work. isn't it great? >> megyn: before i let you go, quickly, the sarah hall ingram, she was the boss of lois lerner back in 2010. then she gets promoted to go run obama care for the irs, and this

other guy, joseph grant, steps in to take her shoes. now he has resigned. he's one of the two to go. stephen miller, the acting commissioner, he went. joseph grant went. what about her? she was there when the plot was hatched, according to the reports, and now she's been effectively promoted. the white house said oh, she did nothing wrong. how do we know that, leslie? >> well, honestly, this is the woman, and i don't want to use chris' up the skirt analogy there, but this is the one i'm most concerned with and i'm a lib rliberal democrat, seriousl. i say that because the question here is not the irs scrutinizing applications for a new ruling that they're understaffed and not completely knowledgeable on, to be honest, and the fact is more conservative groups have super pacs that file these applications and none left to right should be given any tax-exempt status because they're all political in nature, left or right. the only one denied was the liberal group. it's the political motivation

and the specific targeting of these conservative groups that is the sin of those ten deadly since. >> megyn: the only one denied was a liberal group is extremely misleading. that's extremely misleaked. you know there are hundreds. there were hundreds of conservative groups placed on the back burner, forced to wait for three years. to point out that one liberal group was denied is to avoid the entire issue of how the conservative groups were targeted. you know that's the issue. you know that's what they were doing. >> i said that. i said that's the sin. >> megyn: that's your opinion. that's fine. i don't challenge you on that. but don't mislead the viewers into thinking oh, it was the liberal group was denied. that the not what the story proved. that's not what the i.g. concluded. they concluded there was targeting of conservative groups. that's what happened. >> my point was when chris said the president benefitted, i would agree with him had the conservative groups been denied and the liberal groups been given tax-exempt status. >> they were effectively denied.

>> megyn: in the meantime, the president's 501c4 was approved in 30 days. how does that happen? they get expedited approval and the conservatives wait three years. >> and the president's brother, the president's half brother who we never heard of until we found out that he had been approved in less than 30 days by the irs, this was a systematic harassment of opponents of president obama, and he's the beneficiary. we need a special prosecutor. >> we'll see as we continue this saga of the women at the irs. leslie, chris, thank you. >> thanks. >> it's not as catchy as the young and the restless. that's the story. we're seeing new developments on our story, our top story right now as fox confirms that the house judiciary committee is investigating whether the attorney general of the united states lied under oath. we'll have that top of the hour. up next, we investigate the controversy over a plan to change the curriculum in classrooms across this country. see why some folks are sounding the alarm now about government conspiracies and data mining of

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>> megyn: the associated press is reporting about changes on what our children are being taghtaught in school. core standards are aimed at

bringing statements in alignment. we're hearing controversial claims about how the feds might use this program to data mine our students and their families. bob boden is an education analyst and the director of the education documentary, the cartel. bob, good to see you. >> good to see you, megyn. >> megyn: what is common core. >> what are education curriculum standards? the idea is what grade you teach long division or what grade in high school you introduce shakespeare. should kindergarteners count from 1 to 20 or 1 to 100. states count it differently. the kids go to third grade in georgia and moves to go to fourth grade in alabama. should they be completely thrown off? this is the argument for it in terms of what they're learning and where they are in class. should they be behind, for example. the other argument is there's economies of scale, and with software development and new textbooks, it makes sense that if you have stand for what third grader should know, you could have a third grade textbook

company. instead of developing all the different ones, let's have a standard one. >one. >> megyn: in theory i like that. i don't want the kid who is finishing kindergarten in georgia to count 1 to 20 instead of the kid in new york count being 1 to00. >> we have a common electrical grid, and you can plug in a hair drier anywhere. the standard is good. >> megyn: it's not all as rainbows and unicorns as yound i are setting it up to be. the controversy comes where? >> it was originally sold as a voluntary effort by states. states got together and say all right, well, we'll make our standards like yours, and we'll all be in sync, right? we've increasingly learned is the federal top down involvement. a third of a billion dollars was used by the federal treasury money to set up these groups. we really didn't know that, most in education reform, at the beginning. we also learned later that well, the race to the top initiative where billions of dollars were given by the obama

administration to certain states if they liked what those states were doing in education. that was one of the criteria for giving out the federal money. are you down with common core? also, waivers to no child left behind which had some onerous federal penalties if you were found in non-compliance with no child left behind. well, you could get waived from all that by the federal government if you were good with common core. so the federal government became a larger and larger role in terms of -- > >> megyn: if common core is not controversy, is there something about the lesson plan that's problematic, that people don't want their children learning and they don't want arne duncan enforcing? >> that's exactly right. you set it up right. there's really a new pushback against common core. it's really rooted in the idea that, you know, first of all, you know, this could be the entree for further federal involvement. what if in 10 rea years fro in w the federal government says we like this textbook and you should use it and spend this much time teaching geometry and

we have a reading list, and you have to pick from this stuff? there could be future federal requirements, in other words, if this is the camel nose under the tent of federal involvement that people reject. also, you might say a larger concern is we're just at the cusp of an explosion in innovation in education. we have on line learning exploding. we have niche charter schools in almost every state. many states now have voucher programs for private schools teaching certain specialized curriculum to different kinds of kids. right at this exact moment of, you know, starbuck's adding 20 kinds of coffee, you know, instead of just regular or decav, in education this is feared as a way to implement a top down, you know, federalized ministry of education. >> megyn: one size fits all, and one size does not necessarily fit all when it comes to educating children. >> exactly. all children are different, you know, as has been often said. you need to meet two children to

know that. now you have conservative groups like tea party groups opposing that. >> megyn: i want to talk to you about that, why the tea party opposes it. we'll do that right after the break. ♪ ♪

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>> megyn: bob is back with me now. he's from choice media. i want to pick up with this discussion on whether they're data mining our kids through this program, common core. the feds are overseeing it and making certain things conditional upon states adopting it. the feds are going to data mine our kids and our families through it? how? >> all right. so what does data mine mean? so to some, the more innocuous explanation is taking averages to find out how the average kid is doing because they need to adjust the educational standards in a certain way to compensate for it.

kids are really getting the concept but missing this other concept in their, you know, second grade reading or something, and so we're going to make an adjustment. people generally don't have a problem with that, but the question then becomes where is all this data housed? how specific is it to the kid? and then ultimately, you know, how is it going to be used later? you know, at the risk of controversy here, when google had a program called doodle for google for children they had an application children were supposed to fill out. they would basically doodle like the google lo logo and they woud have a national contest, pick their favorite doodle and go on the website. at one point they asked for each kid's social security numbers, childrens' social security number on the google form. > >> megyn: unbelievable. >> exactly. when this came out, they quickly, you know, abandoned it. they said oh, no, it's just to make sure we don't get duplicate entries. that's the reason. ultimately what sort of private issues are there.

>> megyn: how much sharing do we want to do with the federal government at such a young age? we've done s so many stories on school curriculum. we had the test question that suggested the united states is responsible for bringing on 9/11. we used the term freedom fighters when discussing terrorists. that's not part of a common core curriculum. it's controversial. i mean, that's the danger in putting the decision-making and learning in the hands of one central authority. maybe you disagree with that authority. i've gotta run, bob. thank you for your expertise. >> any time. >> megyn: coming up, if you're just joining us, big developments in the upcoming george zimmerman murder trial. plus, did attorney general eric holder die under oath? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. did other than general eric ell gh we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪

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>> megyn: fox news alert on new fallout from our top story as fox news confirms the attorney general of the united states may be investigated for lying allegedly to congress while under oath. brand new hour here of "america live". welcome, everyone. i'm megyn kelly. the story broke a little more than an hour ago. house judiciary committee is now focusing on statements issued by mr. holder in which he said he has never been involved with the potential prosecution of the press, even though we have since learned that it was eric holder personally who signed off on a search warrant targeting reporter james rosen right here at fo fox news, suggesting that james was part of a criminal conspiracy to leak classified

information. this comes on a day when we're hearing a growing number of voices in both politics and in the media, on the left and the right saying in the interest of justice, the attorney general needs to step down. shannon bream joins us live from wawtionz. shannon? >> reporter: megyn, from fast and fewer russ to the justice department investigation into journalists' phone records and e-mail, g.o.p. criticisms of holder's decisions have been steadily growing, that's no secret. republicans have introduced multiple house resolutions expressing no confidence in holder and asking for his immediate resignation. there is one pending right now by arizona republican paul gosar. dozens of co-sponsors has signed on and he says holder is failing to uphold his constitutional obligations and is continuing to be evasive to both congress and the american people. now mid ra liberal media outletd blogs are questioning holder's recent decision. >> it seems to me clear that the actions of the department have,

in fact, impaired the first amendment. reporters who might have previously believed that a confidential source would speak to them would no longer have that level of confidence. >> reporter: liberal pundit bill press tweeted out a call for holder to be fired and the left-leaning huffington post yesterday had a headline saying it was time for holder to go. >> what's very different about this time is that you're starting to see democrats join republicans to call for his resignation. whenever you see both sides doing that, it means there's real trouble. doesn't mean he's in trouble having to be forced out or resign yet, but it means this is a lot more serious than some of the other events that he's had to take on. >> reporter: responding to reports that he now regrets the subpoenas aimed at journalists,

today holder said, quote, i'm not satisfied. he said he's going to begin having discussions with members of the media possibly as early as this week. megyn? >> megyn: shannon, thank you. in light of the new question about possibly lying under oath, mr. holder appears to face a new round of challenging questions in the days and weeks to come. we saw the debate over his future on a number of sunday shows this weekend, including our own "fox news sunday". >> . the problem is it went to holder and he okayed it. he okayed the work of his investigators, and so now -- >> you're saying he's not ultimately responsible as the head man of the justice department who personally signed off on this? >> he signed off on it. >> he signed on it. >> the question is to go back and look at the work of the investigators. >> if he signed off on it, how can he investigate it? >> because now is the opportunity and he's the exact right person as attorney general of the united states to see what prosecutors did and how they came to this conclusion. >> h wasn't he supposed to see l that before he signed off the affidavits.

>> you can't see every: he's ths off on it, as brit points out. we played you the sound bite in eric holder's interview with npr and how carefully he review these. it's a big deal when you go after reporters records. it's a first amendment deal. we'll take a very close look at whether eric holder has plausible deniability here when it comes to what happened with james rosen and where it goes from here. is this man likely it keep his job? many thought he would step down in barack obama's second term. he shocked a lot of folks when he said i'm staying on. will he make it? we'll talk about it coming up. more breaking news now, this time in a stunning revelation that some of america's most sensitive military secrets are now in the hands of chinese hackers. they deny it. the hackers. the white house taking notice. a new report reveals that cyber spies gained access, we believe it was cyber spies, to plans for

dozens of america's most advanced weapons including the f-thinf-35 stealth fighter jet,f the most expensive in u.s. history. another blackhawk, a utility helicopter, widely used by the u.s. military. the aegis ballistic missile defense system which is the back bone of america's missile defense system as well as the navy standard missile which is a primary service to air defense weapon, and our top of the line google -- i should say global hawk drone, a high altitude long endurance unmanned aircraft system. a capability no one else in the world had until it was stolen. the white house now revealing cyber security will be on the president's agenda when he meets next week with the president of china. is that good enough? not like this is their first meeting or their first theft. lou dobbs is the anchor of lou dobbs tonight on the fox business network. i should point out they didn't officiallly accuse the chinese f

stealing the designs in the big report given to the pentagon, but that's exactly what we believe happen. not we, fox newschannel, but we, the government, believes it happened. >> they're following the same practice they pursued for the last decade, the report and assessment of the chinese and u.s. military -- potential military engagement. it's assessed every year. you know, it has not ever come out and said they're stealing. they've been stealing since the clinton administration with both hands, and the administration of bill clinton and george w. bush and barack obama have all chosen to avert their eyes. the result is right now at least, at least four to five trillion dollars in technology, in our knowledge base, civilian knowledge base, has been transferred to the chinese. it's explosive, and it is changing, if you will, china's destiny because they are using the material that they've

hacked. think about this. it is not simply that they've stolen all of the these technological and military secrets, but they are demonstrating a capacity to command cyberspace against the united states inside to all of the military assets that have been, i love the expression on the part of the administration, compromised. your word was exact. they have stolen it. the major banks in this country have been hacked by the peoples repurepublican army. it just doesn't end. >> megyn: i know why they do it. they get all this blood, sweat, and treasure we put into our research without having to, you know, the only effort they have to make is figuring out how to hack which is a lot easier than developing these weapon systems. why don't we do more to protect the systems that we spent so much time and money developing? >> to me, there are only two possible answers.

one is we can't stop them, or two, we have engaged but have not let them know that, and we're playing a double game. >> megyn: then how do they have all these weapon systems, our most sentenceivour most sensitis systems hacked in the headlines of the "washington post". >> the idea is they've put trojan horses into the technology. >> megyn: they got the fake stuff, not the real stuff? >> in some instances. you mentioned the f-35, the most advanced fighter jet in history. this thing is incredible. cost 1ment 4 trillion dollars. we don't need to know what's happening in cyber space to know they've stolen the technology. their form of the f-35 looks a lot like what we do, and it does it much the same way, and we've been talking about cyber space, but the truth is we've known for over a decade, well over a decade, that there are 3500 companies working in the united

states that are front companies for the chinese army who are missioned to steal that technology. >> megyn: what are we supposed to do? the administration has escalated its warnings to the chinese government. president obama is going to raise it. he's going to raise it as an issue next week. i mean, how do we -- that's not good enough, clearly. it doesn't work for him. it hasn't worked for president bush. >> and the fact is there's no excuse for this president because we are not so engaged that we cannot direct our energy and our efforts towards thwarting china in its ambitions, but there's no public statement. there is no public policy on the part of this administration, and that means that he is basically handing over the wealth, the knowledge base and the technological -- >> megyn: there's a question about why. >> that's a good question. >> megyn: they own us. that's the theory. there's only s so threatening yu can be to your landlord or bank or to somebody who owns you. >> owning is something that

isn't going to happen to me, and so what do we say? i want to make sure you put a little circle around it. nobody's going to own me. >> megyn: you know what i'm saying. they're holding all the debt. the question is whether we've weakened our negotiating position or position to demand they stop doing this. okay. so we went in, we had a private meeting, and we raised this privately with senior chinese government representatives in a four-hour long meeting a year ago. can you see us laying out our evidence, our charts? why don't we say you did it, and if you don't knock it off, some sort of meaningful threat will follow? >> you remember a little over a year ago the joint chiefs made the very clear statement that in certain instances, intrusions in cyber space will be considered an act of war against the united states and will be treated as such. what more? i mean, the list, the list as you go through all of the technology, all of the military secrets, all of the commercial technology that they've stolen in cyberspace, what in god's

name would it take to create an act of war? you couldn't do this in anything about the virtual world and have there be any doubt of it being an act of war. >> megyn: coming to a conclusive determination, you know, that we're willing to stand behind and accusing the chinese is almost as tough as firing an irs employee. not quite, but almost there. >> the fact that there's no one in the senate, no one in the house stepping up to demand action tells you how gutless, gutless this country is on this issue. we've got to ask why. >> megyn: you feel for the men and women of the u.s. military. >> i do every day. >> megyn: they're the ones bearing the brunt of it when they see our technology used against them. >> meanwhile we have senators wanting to go to war in syria. the madness of it is incomprehensible. >> megyn: lou, great to see you. nobody owns lou and nobody puts him in a corner. >> unless i'm told to go there. >> megyn: there's one other time he does it, but we can't talk about it on tv. breaking news next on new

subpoenas just issued in the investigation into the terror attack that killed four americans in benghazi, libya. see how congress now hopes to grab the documents the state department has yet to produce. plus, new questions about the federal rate on gibson guitar a year ago. ahead, we'll investigate claims that that company, very well known as supportive of republican candidates and causes, may have been another victim in the administration's attempt to punish some of its political opponents. and a tough day for george zimmerman's defense team after a judge knocks down virtually every request the defense made and said was crucial to their case. kelly's court takes up the matter. >> republican opinion was swayed by false presentation of the case from the beginning. the defense had nothing to do that. actually, the state had nst much to do with it.

the martin family through their handlers portrayed a picture of who trayvon martin was and who george zimmerman was that was totally inaccurate, and this evidence shows that. i don't make any decisions about who to hire

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>> megyn: fox news alert. we just got word that the house oversight and government reform committee chairman, darrell issa, has sent a new espn to the secretary of state, john kerry. he says his committee's repeated requests for documents and other communications on the benghazi talking points have been ignored by the state department despite secretary kerry promising to help the committee. we'll update you as soon as we get a response from the state department. well, a number of media outlets are now asking whether congress needs to take a new look at a federal raid on gibson guitar nearly two years ago. in august of 2011 agents dressed in swat gear swarmed the company's facilities in tennessee accusing gibson of illegally using foreign wood in their guitars.

now in light of the irs scandal, some are asking if perhaps that incident was another example of punishing a top republican donor. here to explain, judge andrew napolitano who is our fox news senior judicial analyst. this was a crazy situation when they went down there. you would have thought that gibson was in the business of manufacturing, you know, plutonium. >> yeah. >> megyn: not guitars with the way this raid went down. >> well, i was stunned when i heard about the raid. first of all, it was on three different facilities. these guys and women came dressed in swat gear with what we would call machine guns pointed at people and they took dozens and dozens of employees out into the parking lot. they then seized what they said was the illegal wood. they effectively shut down the business. a beloved wi business to many, t a privately held, perfectly lawful business. they shut it down for about a month. gibson's legal bills are about two and a half million dollars. they haven't gotten back the wood that was seized from them. now, this wood, if it was imle

properly imported, that is a civil wrong. it's not a criminal wrong. you can't go to jail for that. >> megyn: it's not the same as manufacturing plutonium. >> that's correct. it's not the same as manufacturing meth. stated differently, there was absolutely zero basis to achieve what they wanted to achieve with guns drawn and people dressed in military uniforms. this is way, way overboard. >> megyn: why are we talking about this two years later? >> because we found out this administration has a pen chant for seeking vengeance against those who want to speak out against it and the owner of gibson did so by endorsing republican candidates and financially endorsing them as well. something that might not have occurred to us, you and me, who watch this stuff at the time it happened. now we see more and more of a pattern, but nothing as potentially violent as what gibson did. state law prohibits this kind of use of force. federal law requires that that which was seized be compensated for and the department of justice regulations does not

permit this military-style raid on a company unlikely to resist, not involved in criminal activity which made a simple mistake and imported the wrong kind of wood. the mistake, it turns out, was actually the exporter in india, not gibson, the importer in the united states. >> megyn: so who was behind the raid? was it the local cops? was it the feds? wwas it the doj? >> we know it was the feds but we don't know who in the doj which is why i was happy to hear in your introduction to this segment that congress may be looking into this. congress may summon eric holder if he's going to be revealing this time and say did you know about it? did you authorize it? who was in charge of it? who decided that instead of knocking on the door and saying you're using the wrong wood and we're going to fine you, and if you don't like the fine, you can challenge it. >> megyn: they could have made a phone call. >> they accept an army to invade the place. place. >> megyn: imib son'begin son'sgf

executive is a big republican contributor. their ceo was a big long time, is a democratic supporter with tens of thousands of contributions to democratic candidates. he did not get raided. >> look. the raid was unjust file. the use of force at the raid was criminal, but the government is required to treat similarly situated people in a similar way. if c.w. martin is let alone or gets a letter in the mail saying we think you imported the wrong wood, they have to do the same thing with gibson. they can't use force on gibson because they're republicans and a letter in the mail on c.w. martin because they're democrats. the whole purpose of the constitution is to prohibit the government from using its monopoly on force against its opponents and leaving its allies alone. >> megyn: i'm sure the doj would say that wasn't their motivation, it wasn't political targeting, it was an instance of

ep forcing the law and they're not allowed to import rosewood. eric holder said he wouldn't prosecute a journalist, he didn't prosecute james rosen, but he told a federal judge that he was a co-conspirator to get subpoenas against him. >> i would really like to know who in the justice department made the decision to use a military style raid with machine guns rather than a letter in the mail in order to address an issue that is not even a fe fedl or state crime. >> megyn: maybe we'll find out now. >> i hope we do because americans won't tolerate this kind of force in their faces. >> megyn: well, it's been tolerated. there was some brushback, but now we have a different perspective to look at the gibson situation. we'll see. they wound up settling and agreeing to pay a $300,000 penalty, gibson did, in the wake of this. what would you do if you had the doj raiding you? >> well, there's another lawsuit about whether the feds will pay gibson for what they did to

them. gotta go. the panel weighs in on a new push to push eric holder out te door. what happens now that the a.g. is taking heat for possibly lying to congress. stay with us. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but

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>> megyn: we are learning more today about a terrifying incident for passengers on an alaskan airlines flight. they were flying from anchorage to portland when a passenger tried to open the emergency exit. that's not good. trace? >> it's never good, megyn, really. this plane ride was only 10 minutes away from landing in portland when the passenger say 23-year-old alexander herrera who they described by the way, as a very big man. he began screaming and hissing

and tried i to open the emergeny exit. that's him right there, the guy on the left. i mean, he was sitting in the exit row. he reached up and grabbed it. listen. >> i thought we were going to crash or something, so i was bracing for that, and then somebody was yelling stop him, stop him, and i turned around and saw a large man trying to open the emergency exit and had it and was just yanking on it. >> yeah. he was yanking on it. the passengers and the crew grabbed him and tackled him and used everything from plastic ties to shoe laces to belts to try and bind him to his seat. they say he then sat there mumbling to himself and asking kind of a series of bizarre questions, but he didn't budge for the remainder of the flight. the suspect, who was from arizona, was arrested by the fbi as soon as they arrived in portland. that's him right there. just for the record, passengers cannot open the emergency exits without them being disarmed, to the 137 passengers on board the

plane, megyn, were really in no imminent danger, but some people say this guy didn't look right from the start. listen. >> really behaving bizarrely. his clothes were not buttoned correctly and h so i don't know what situation this gentleman had gone through, but perhaps he should not have been seated in the emergency exit row. haveah. not revealed whether or not her, but alexander herrera will make his first court appearance in portland this afternoon. megyn. >> megyn: oh, my. trace gallagher, thank you. a judge today weighing in on a lawndy list of controversial requests made by george zimmerman's defense team. kelly's court takes a look at what the rulings which are not good for mr. zimmerman mean for the case. and we're tracking reaction now to the breaking news that attorney general eric holder may be investigated for possibly lying to congress under oath as pressure mounts from the left and right for him to resign.

>> he did not conduct the probe, so the question is how do you go -- how do you come to the conclusion that a working reporter with a longstanding excellent career in washington is somehow now involved in espionage. that's the question. >> the problem is that it went to holder, and he okayed it. i see you have allstate claim free rewards, for every year you don't have a claim, you'll get money off your home insurance policy. put it towards... [ glass shatters ] [ girl ] dad!

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>> megyn: back now to our top

story today. fox news confirming that the house judiciary committee is looking into whether the attorney general of the united states lied to congress while under oath. that question concerns the a.g.'s testimony from may 15th. during his sworn testimony, mr. holder told lawmakers, this is before it emerged, that he had personally signed off on this search warrant for james rosen's personal e-mails. it was after the ap scandal had broken where we found out they had been monitoring ap phone calls for a two-month period a year ago. when he testified before congress on may 15th, he told them that he has never been involved in the, quote, potential prosecution of the press for this type of leak or disclosure. here's the comment. >> i would argue that the espionage act of 1917 would authorize the prosecution of anyone who disclosed classified

information and perhaps that's another area that we may need to take action on here in this congress. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something that i've ever been involved in or heard of or would think would be a wise policy. >> megyn: since that date we have, of course, learned that it was eric holder himself who signed off on a search warrant identifying fox news reporter james rosen as part of a conspiracy to leak classified information. the u.s. attorney for the district of columbia arguing to the judge in an effort to get that search warrant that the doj could potentially charge rosen at some point and labeling him, saying that, and i quote, there is probable cause to believe that the reporter has committed or is committing a violation of the espionage act as an aider and abettor and/or co-conspirator. so, did the attorne attorney gee

to congress there, and should he step down in the wake of calls now from both sides of the aisle that they do so? joining me now, allen combs, and lars lar sen, a syndicated radio host on compass radio networks. let me get your take. let me ask you whether you think that was a lie because what he said, lars, was -- >> yes. >> megyn: the potential prosecution of the press for these leaks. it's not something i've been involved in, heard of, or would support, basically, would think would be wise policy. the potential prosecution of the press is not something i've ever been involved in or even heard of. your thoughts. >> well, he's either evil or incompetent or both. evil if he did it and then knowingly lied to congress which is perjury, and he should be charged and then the president should fire him. incompetent if he knew he was going to testify to congress and with the gigantic staff that the

doj has didn't say to his staff have we signed off on any of these things? did you put paper in front of me that i signed without even looking at it where we went after a reporter was if he's that incompetent, he should be competent enough to ask his staff did i ever do this? let me know before i testify to congress. he didn't do either, so he's either evil or incompetent or a little bit of both. i'd vote for both. i don't know how the president can keep on an attorney general who is one or the other. >> megyn: alan? >> i think we're too quick to point fingers and name call. we don't have the information yet. did he willfully lie? i don't think we know that. i'm not prepared to say he should step down at this point. we don't have the information. >> megyn: let me back you up before we get to willfully lie or not. i don't know that we've established he lied at all. >> exactly. >> megyn: if you parse the language, the lawyer in me parses the language. he said i've never been involved of or the potential prosecution

of the press. now, he may have been drawing a line between, and in his head at this point he knows, he knows that he signed off on a search warrant that alleged james rosen was a criminal. but he may be -- that doesn't mean i was ever going to prosecutor him. i was never going to prosecute the reporter. i had to say he was a criminal to get access to his records. >> megyn, you're exactly right. there is a fine line there. in his mind, was he ever going to prosecute? the administration said over and over again they never had any intention of prosecuting james rosen or any reporters. was it wrong for him to sign that and go after a reporter? i think so. it's chilling that an administration, a high level person like holder would sign something that would go after and seek records of a reporter doing his job and then call that reporter a co-conspirator. was that a lie? i mean, they're trying to get him on something for years now. was this perjury? that's a very different question. >> megyn: well, that's the thing. if you can get somebody on perjury, you have to have them dead to rights.

you've got to have them right on. thethere can't be wiggle room. lars, go ahead. >> here's the attorney general that goes to the courts and said i need this warrant to go after this man because, and if you read the details, he asks to be going after him because he believes as a co-conspirator, the man may either disguise himself, i don't think rosen would do that, he's a nice guy, or flee. i don't think that's likely. >> megyn: they misrepresented that he might be a flight risk. >> that he might be a flight risk, really. that rosen might flee the country because the attorney general thinks he may have helped to steal secrets. >> megyn: all right. look. >> does that make sense? >> megyn: here's the question because holder now, i mean, the daily beast has this long article talking about it. it's entitled holde holder's res and repairs. aids posit's a post mortem how r knew in the wake of the ap

scandal about the rosen thing. here's what they write. for attorney general eric holder, the gravity of the situation didn't fully sink in until monday morning when he read the "washington post" front page story sitting alt his kitchen table and saw all the details about how the agents had tracked james rosen's movements in and out of the state department and so on. according to his aides, he was beginning to feel a creeping sense of personal remorse. alan, he told npr he couldn't even remember how many cases he actually signed off on in which this had happened, even though he takes them very seriously. >> if you're going to sign off on affidavits having to do with a reporter, particularly one who is perceived to be from an organization that is perceived as hostile to the administration, you probably should know about that and know what the political consequences could be of that, but that being said, you know, calls for his head are quite premature, and he should be given the opportunity to explain himself more fully so we know exactly where he was coming from. by the way, the republicans have been calling for investigations into leaks for a very long time.

they're the ones who have been calling for it. in fact, mitch mcconnell -- >> megyn: he seems to blame the republicans because they're putting too much pressure on eric holder to investigate leaks. what was he supposed to do? he had to go after james rosen for being a leaker. here's what i want to ask you, lars. the white house, and the doj, would seem to have us believe now that this is just, look, national security. the ap compromised national security with respect to this yemen plot they were going to report on. james rosen was talking about north korea. eric holier has a duty. there's a question about -- eric holder has a duty. there's a question about whether this is part of an enemy list. the president made no secrets about the fact that he does not like fox new newschannel. he doesn't want people watching the fox news newschannel. his administration tried to exclude us from round robin interviews the administration was offering at one point and our fellow news organizations stood up and said you can't do this. personally i'll tell you that the doj spokesperson in place

for almost all of the administration but for the last couple of months, a woman with whom we've had many dealings here on this show and we at the fox news channel and also cheryl atkinson of the cbs news has documented the number of screaming fests tracy has unloaded on her. i can tell you, lars, there are questions about whether this administration can't take any negative c particular at the doj, and people like tracy who are spokes people for the attorney general or who were until a couple of months ago, now she works for david davidavid acdavid \axle/ . >> was the doj used for political purposes in the case of james rosen. is hhs being used for political

purposes to illegally raise money to promote obama care which the administration can't do? yes. was benghazi handled politically with lies to the american public about what really happened there because the president needed six or eight weeks of breathing room to get past an election? this administration doesn't seem to hesitate to use any organ of government to go after people for political purposes or use it to the president's benefit and we can't keep hearing this excuse that we didn't know anything about what was going on in our own government until we read it in the paper or saw it on the news. that's absurd. >> megyn: i want to ask you about that, alan. a lot of our dealings with tracy took place back in 2010. listen. this is a sit-down interview she did with us, not us but the fox news channel at some point before she left doj. this person clearly doesn't like the fox news channel and doesn't like criticism coming into the doj. that's not unusual, not to like criticism of your boss, but i'm telling you.

when you have an ambassador like that speaking for you, it undermines your ability as eric holder to come out now when you've been caught doing something controversial to say we're apolitical, it wasn't about rosen, i can take criticism. trust me, i'm a reasonable guy. when you choose somebody like that for your ambassador and be your spokesperson interacting with you for the press. >> that's not a reason to believe that obama himself knew about this, was involved in it, and because he may personally not particularly like the fox fx news channel. >> i'm not on obama. i'm on holder. >> to say there was an attempt to prosecute and a desire to prosecute and a lie before the congress under oath based on the fact that we know that the administration does not generally -- you know, all administrations don't particularly get along with the media, but in particular this administration does not like this news outlet. to say that therefore, the attorney general must likely be guilty of perjury because we know how his leanings are.

>> megyn: i'm not saying perjury. i'm saying the personal remorse and soul searching he's doing according to the daily beast. lars, i'll ask you. is it harder to buy in the wake of the past five years when we've seen eric holder, his spokesperson, and this administration's dealing with the negative press in particular they don't like? >> megyn, here's the thing. alan would like to focus on this question of precisely whether this was planned. the fact that the doj represented to the judge that we believe this person is a co-conspirator is enough for me. i think what you should consider as an attorney, you're an attorney, does the chill begin to happen when an administration even hints that we could prosecute a reporter for doing his job. >> megyn: it definitely does. >> that's when the chilling effect starts. >> megyn: no question. everybody agrees on that. now, for the first time, and i said on o'reilly as a legal analyst i didn't think fast and furius was going to be -- touriufurious would be the end c

holder. when you have the huffington press saying it's time to go, that's something. up next, we're just getting live pictures of a big freight train derailment in baltimore. we'll be right back. you can't say 'one size fits all'. it doesn't. that's crazy. we're all totally different. ishares core. etf building blocks for your personalized portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. to find out we filled this car with smelly trash,

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>> megyn: fox news alert. we're getting live pictures back after a train derails in baltimore suburb. residents report hearing an explosion, and we can see something burning in the middle of all of this. a fire department spokeswoman said they do not yet know if there are any injuries.

at least three rail cars are off the tracks. more on this as we get it. kelly's court is back in session. on the docket today, a big pretrial battle in the george zimmerman case today. florida judge this afternoon rejecting a motion to delay the trial, and blocking mr. zimmerman's defense team from entering any evidence about trayvon martin's past including prior use of marijuana, school suspensions, or alleged fights. the judge did agree, however, to grant the defense a key hearing on whether the state failed to turn over some evidence in the case. joining me now on how this affects the upcoming trial in june, david wool, a defense attorney. and faith jenkins, a former prosecutor. mark o'mara was on this broadcast last week, faith, saying i'm going to offer this evidence i've gotten off trayvon martin's cell phone. he showed us a picture of a hand holding a gun, of a pot plant. he had text messages which he said suggested correspondence about drug use and fights at

school and he wanted to offer all of this. i questioned him whether it was relevant. >> right. >> megyn: it appears the judge does not think this has any relevance at all. >> right. i think o'mara knew going into today's hearing that most of these rulings would go in favor of the state. he may have lost in the court of law today, megyn, but he won in the court of public opinion. all of this information now about trayvon martin is now being disseminated by the media to the public. jurors who would never hear about trayvon's extracurricular activity, so to speak, in court have now heard about them through the media. that's what he wanted to do. >> megyn: can we show you the hand holding the gun? what does that prove? he said it suggests a propensity for violence. i've got a picture of my twitter feed holding a gun. my husband took me skeet shooting for my birthday. trust me.

i have no propensity for violence. >> jo blame the judge at all -- i don't blame the judge at all for that ruling. kids have pictures. whatever. the picture of trayvon martin's pa past, use of marijuana, triggering violent episodes, fights, some on video. the judge said the defense can't discuss it in opening statement, which suggests she is going to research ruling on the actual admissibility, and you canned offer evidence to show propensity of the defendant to commit a crime but you can offer evidence of the propensity of a victim to create a scenario that causes a crime, such as trayvon martin attacking george zimmerman and pounding his head into the ground which is what zimmerman says took place. >> it's never going to come in because at it irsvelte. george zimmerman didn't know notify these things about his history when he made the decision to shoot and kill him.

it's about what is in george zimmerman's mind -- >> megyn: you can't get into prior pad acts. you're a bad actor in the past, it's irrelevant. we'll pick that if after the break.

>> megyn: david wool and faith jenkins back with me now. if you go to trial and you're the defendant they can't get in evidence of your prior bad acts to prove you are a bad actor. that's why all of this stuff about trayvon martin's alleged pass has been deemed largely irrelevant. correct? >> trayvon martins is not the defendant and that rule doesn't apply to zimmerman. only applies in the opposite scenario. the critical issue here,ing me

we have a guy under the influence of drugs, no question about that. faith sayings that zimmerman could not have nope it. that's not the issue. they're saying he was under the influence, he attacked our client and if you don't believe us, look at these past instance dents when he was under the influence of marijuana and got violent. that's be purpose of the request to enter the evidence, and i suspect when the judge takes it up after the case begins she'll allow it in. >> she did not foreclosure it forever but trying the victim. >> they not only want to show he was the aggressor and is just an all-around bad individual. so george zimmerman was justified for committing the ability he did. not only because of what trayvon martin did that night because of who he is in general. that general character evidence is not allowed in a self-defense case when it's about the moment and what you decide to do at that moment where you decide to

defend yourself. >> megyn: the truth is in this case, who the victim is, remains a question. zimmerman will say, i was the victim. >> exactly. >> megyn: but i'm with faith on the evidentiary ruling. i don't think you can get past evidence of bad acts of trayvon martin. >> it is relevant. >> it's not going to come in. >> i want to ask you. the judge did find that the prosecution failed to turn over some critical evidence. we have ten seconds on the hand with the gun. is the prosecution in trouble? >> sanctions, megyn. short of that, nothing more. >> megyn: thank you both.

thanks for watching. "studio b" with trace in for shep, starts now. >> the news begins anew on "studio b". pure chaos as crews wake up to shouts of may day and flames climbing the back of their ship. now those passengers are running home and telling their incredible stories of the dream vacation gone terribly wrong. we'll talk with one passenger live on "studio b." then the attorney general, eric holder, under fire and under investigation. fox news confirming a congressional committee is looking into whether he lied under oath to congress about the government's secret snooping on journalists. plus, big developments in the benghazi