jay sekulow is with us. i'm thinking what if they don't get fox business? >> demand it! >> you have three hours to get it. three hours. start moving. >> i'm eric along with kim kirchen, bob beckel dana perino and greg gutfeld. its the' 5:00 in new york city. this is "the five." we have new developments and all of the big scandals plaguing the obama administration. we will get to the irs and benghazi in a moment. first, attorney general eric holder may have sealed his fate with this one line. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material that is not something that i have ever been involved in, heard of or would think would be a wise policy. >> you heard it here first, folks. we broke that story wide open

last friday when we discussed whether holder per jured himself. now, the house judiciary committee is investigating the matter and the rest of the media is finally catching up. a couple of simple questions remain. what is so dangerous about the truth and what are they hiding? we finally might just get some answers tomorrow and friday. holder is summoned to bureau chiefs from the mainstream media for a meeting. fox got an invite. the white house is feeling the heat. watch jay carney dance, damage, deflect, deny chicago style when asked about the ag today. >> is it the administration's opinion that the attorney general testified truthfully. >> based upon what he said. >> was he not telling the truth? >> involved in what? >> he signed off on the search warrant. >> are you not involved after signing off on a search warrant. >> i would refer you to the justice department.

>> may 16 the president was asked whether he has confidence in the attorney general and he answered not the affirmative. >> he absolutely does,y yes. >> we talked about -- >> this is a joke. >> we got to get that. >> you know what, last week we were professional. >> we were first to this and pointed out that testimony versus what nbc uncovered and reuters that eric holder actually knew about this investigation prior yet denied it there. what -- did he perjure himself? >> i'm not the head of the investigation. it is a worth while cause to get into the bottom of this because it is certainly a question that remains open and needs to be answered and it is very tough to prove perjury. it would have to be willfully misleading and lying to them. that is a tough road for them to go up. >> they -- eric holder decided to meet with the bureau chiefs in the mainstream media and fox

got an invite. is that enough? >> i would not think so. it is a step. they are -- it is not going to fool any one. the reason you are calling the bureau chiefs is because you realize you have a fundamental credibility problem. it is not camera. you will not see any of the meetings but they will be able to have heart to heart discussions with them. the question is will it be enough to save his job? maybe but they are trying to also save his reputation so that if he does end up leaving. point on the press briefing in the exchange with the reporters and the press secretary. i think still one of the fundamental questions is if -- is the question does the president still have confidence in eric holder? that answer was, yes. and a white house has complete confidence in any cabinet secretary until they do not. the question congress is asking, did holder lie to us. >> right. >> i want to know did holder

lie to the president and is the president upset about that? that is the key. if they let it go on too much longer they will probably have more problems. >> his job is gone. >> do you think it will be the president demanding a resignation or why don't you resign and i will accept your resignation. >> i don't think president obama can fire eric holder because that cuts his job creation numbers in half. this drives knee nuts -- drives me nuts. the people asking for the resignation. bill press, al hunt the same person if you notice their hair. huffington post, keith oberman. complete utter freaks are asking for eric holder to quit or resign which means he should stay in the job. he should stay there because what they are look at right now is damaged goods. they look at him like a can of shaving cream and they got everything they needed out of him and want to toss him and

buy a new can of shaving cream. keep him in there. just because the left wing credibility has been used up that makes him even better for the republicans. right now "the five" should stand behind ai eric holder. can't let these guys lynch him. they said we had enough of him and we need a new left wing widget to replace him. >> anybody wants this thing to keep going through 2014 election. >> i want to put a picture of rats jumping off the titanic because that is the indication when the ship is going down. honestly, press, jonathan turley is liberal academic says time for him to go. >> as a long time member of the freak caucus i would say that it is a little premature but as we said in washington we say ie years death by a thousand cuts and i think that right now holder is being besieged from

so many different directions on so many different things he has to be saying to himself i should have listened to my own conscience and gotten out last year. they talked him into staying in the job. i have a feeling that the rosen piece is the one that the big one is a a smoking gun or not, i don't necessarily know. the legal technicalities is -- >> i want to get to kimberly again. the legal pundits say this is what should happen. do you think this is what may happen. what do you think should happen? >> you said already. >> i think that it reached a point now where he is besieged from so many different directions for his sake and i have known him for a long time it probably makes sense for him to resign. >> he was held in content for his testimony on fast and furious. being held in contempt is a little different from being found guilty of perjury, right? >> it criminal matter. this is a serious allegation

being made against the head of the justice department. it is no laughing matter and now his reputation i think is permanently tarnished given this situation and a number of the others in fast and furious and the voting scandals, all of that. now, the problem is he has been a loyal soldier for president obama and he got talked into staying like bob said by valerie jarrett. he has become the pawn in the game. if you were to blame it all on him you are really missing the big picture here and the larger question should be if rosen was the target, who else? >> i still disagree. this is not a failure if he goes. it is like if you cut the tail off a left wing lizard the tail grows back. he has done his job. it is not like he failed. he is is just taking all of the heat. and bob you said this before, the attorney general is the lightning rod for the ide logical. he just takes all the bad stuff

and when goes they replace him with the same thing if not worse. the entire administration is run like an old style narco cartel. instead of hiding from the feds they are the feds which means we should get a drug cartel to prosecute them. >> can i pull the anchor for a second? what should the administration do with eric holder. what know what the administration would like to do. >> he might want to go actually. and for president obama sometimes a personnel change can really help just turn the page and get a blank page that they can then write a new chapter. they have three and a half years left. the justice department is to critical to so many different things in our lives even if we don't like it all the time that they can't have a crisis of confidence in the attorney general even if internal employees. that would be bad. we have to understand the full scope of this. i would want to know can you tell us is jim rosen -- was that the only one?

>> no. >> what do you consider a co-conspirator. what is the standard because you can't actually forgive and move on until you know the full scope of what happened. >> he said he was a little bit sorry for the extent. >> do you agree? >> one of the things we have to remind here is eric holder who will have to appoint if they do have special prosecutors and that will raise a whole lot of questions. i assume he would recuse himself. there are other special prosecutors. the republicans are debating whether they should have it themselves. darrell issa thinks he can handle it. >> they would like to run the hearings themselves. >> eric holder is the last person. >> they have some things going on all at once. they need to just right write it all down. >> take a look at eric holder over the years. no strange to controversy. a short list swirling around the attorney general. pull that screen up any time now. holder the withholder. february 2009 calls the usa a nation of cowards.

i'm quoting him and that was in a race relations is speech. in november of 2009 attempts to bring khalid shaikh muhammad to new york city for trial. sues arizona on immigration. and held in contempt of congress over fast and furious. less than forthcoming fast and furious testimony. bob, take this death by a thousand cuts. >> i would agree with the arizona cal length. i will think he has done a lot of good things. >> what? >> that is one of them. >> suing americans. feathering his cap. >> i would like to know. >> some of the people empowered to be that and i would say some. i think that let's get back to the question of you list some things here. i think the justice department has handled a number of different things. as dana pointed out it is very important. we haven't talked about the treasury secretary who was

somebody. >> that was the b block. >> i thought of one thing. when prosecuted the black panthers for the voter in tame dicks. intimidation. >> there are a couple of things in his defense. he oversaw the administration even though i disagree with it. the administration argument on the healthcare piece and they won that. if you are obama and thinking what has he done that is great you could point to that. >> could you show a picture of him again? i thought that his best thing that he had ever done was when was in the barber in mayberry rfd. >> did you spend a long time thinking about him? >> i think of the barber in mayberry. >> we got to wrap it up. thoughts. what does he do post-ag? >> he will make millions. write a book and probably be a political contributor some

where. >> do what he do before, work at a law firm. >> can i mention one thing? yesterday in the "wall street journal" there was an article about a push from the white house to try to speed up the gitmo the guantanamo detainee piece. in the article small graph at the end it says a former administration official believes they will reprize the idea of bringing from gitmo back to the united states. whose idea was that originally? that was the attorney general. >> i think he should move in with ramsey clark and do an odd couple thing on broadway. >> he is not -- >> yes, he is. you work with him. >> i know, that is probably whew i don't know. eric holder hopes at one point to be put on the supreme court. i would suggest that is probably not -- >> a ship that probably sailed. >> what does charles krauthammer thinks is the biggest scandal for the obama administration? you will hear from him next.

plus, new claims that the irs is harassing conservatives. just can't seem to stop. it's in their nature, next on "the five." ♪ bonjour ♪ je t'adore ♪ c'est aujourd'hui ♪ ♪ et toujours ♪ me amour ♪ how about me? [ male announcer ] here's to a life less routine. ♪ and it's un, deux, trois, quatre ♪ ♪ give me some more of that

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♪ today a federal lawsuit was fielded against the irs by 25 conservative groups who say they were targeted by the agency. it includes a series of letters sent to them stamped with lois lerner's signature. last week she said she did nothing wrong. >> i know that some people will assume that i have done something wrong. i have not.

>> did she take a xanax? >> i'm missing something. >> so low energy. >> another letter dated may 26, 2013. >> didn't the white house say the wrong doing stopped last year? i think so. >> the misconduct had stopped in may of 2012. despite the media interest in our april 2013 awareness it is important to remember that the misconduct, of course, had stopped almost a year earlier. >> but did it really? here is the heed o head of thep lynchpins of liberty that was on cavuto earlier today. >> i received three letters from the irs of any substance. it was mailed may 6 but came on may 14. right in the midst of all of this the irs sends yet another letter which contradicts the testimony of steve miller and others at the first congressional hearing ten days ago. >> i'm glad we have kimberly. help explain the lawsuit being filed that jay sekulow is

leading? >> they will be able to get a tremendous amount of information if the case goes forward. the exposure is tremendous. not an issue of we have wrongs committed against us and we have been damaged. the damage is going to be declare torreatory relieve. a number of the groups haven't received the status yet they have been seeking. it is 25 groups against the irs. the important thing that came out today was he has proof that the targeting did not stop in 2012 like was previously stated. so we are just being right now being able to see kind of the information coming forward, the unraveling of the stories that have been told. what appears to be inconsistent statements made before and

contradictery evidence coming forward now. >> every time they say something declarative it turns out not to be true you two days later. what do they need to do to stop that? >> i would stop by reading the letters. i would say this there was and i believe there is collusion among some of the tea party groups and the republican party and they take political action. if i were there i would have pulled them out, too. now -- >> oh, boy. >> but i would -- >> just the tea party. >> just some of the groups. not all of them. >> none of the lefty groups. >> why would you say the right does that and the left doesn't? the question is this is a case about first amendment rights and you have groups willing to get involved and they' plied legally and they waited patiently and answered the questions and they were in collusion? but left wing groups don't collude? >> when i was in a left wing group we certainly collude.

>> what are you saying this is not real? >> there was an explosion of campaign dollars from certain groups into the campaign and those groups were tax exempt organizations. >> why is it illegal or collusion for them to through the constitutional rights be able to form the groups to apply lawfully for tax exempt status to expect to be treated likely other. >> why do they think it is lawful? >> let's listen to catherine who was on o'reilly last night. this is the type of abuse they were facing. >> bill: the irs agents come down in texas where you are based and what do they do? >> not only are we three years into the limbo of the nonprofit exemption being held up. personally i was audited. our businesses were audited for the two years. my husband and i were personally audited for two years. >> that is one story.

how many others are out there last night? >> a tee tea party group from maitland florida who had the department of homeland security attend one of their rallies. st. louis same thing. tea party in the name you get special treatment. show up in combat gear, dhs. you never see that with occupy wall street or when the communist party wants to march in chicago and you never see it when msnbc has the company picnic. >> you are starting to see, greg, some -- i think the democrats are rattled up in. the truth is i actually don't think that they did anything wrong. they waited until the news media coverage was bad and then decided to be outraged. >> imagine if the media looked at pictures of women dressed sex wallually and said those wn are asking for it? if you are for small government you are asking for it from the

big government people. the more people that join the tea party it is going to put the fear of god in the irs. once you create an organization that they think that you asked for it that makes them look really bad. the democrats and the media rallying around the irs. a survey that said that the democrats said that the irs are using their powers responsibly. that is like bacteria rallying around tooth decay. there you go, bob, you can now interrupt. >> did i interrupt you? >> i was trying to make a point. >> go ahead. >> i'm done. >> i want to make a point. >> the tax exempt organizations are not supposed to be involved in politics. >> imagine how crazy the left would go if it was the irs targeting a group with a description of race in their name. imagine a group that picked out a certain race and went after that group to find out. >> or sexual orientation. >> any one of those. but if it's conservative seems to be okay. >> my group was audited.

>> your group was crazy left wing drinkers. politicians went home this week they he heard a lot about it and starting to cut ads and very effective. even before the investigation is finished they will have a lot of blowback. that was my last word. when we come back, charles krauthammer on what he thinks is the biggest mistake of the obama administration. and the latest pitch to sell obamacare to the public. we have our hands on their plan and we will tell you about it. ♪ and do you know your... blood type? a or b positive?? have you eaten today? i had some lebanese food for lunch. i love the lebanese.

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i like that. nine days. that is how long the state department has to release more documents rehe lated to the benghazi terror attack. darrell issa is accusing the administration of withholding information and said there was no choice but to issue a subpoena. what else needs to be uncovered? here is what charles krauthammer wants to know. >> the biggest scandal of all. the biggest question of all is what was the president doing in those eight hours? five hours in he calls the secretary of state. it looks as if the only phone call was to construct a cover story at a time when the last two americans who died were still alive and fighting for their lives. there is the scandal and that i think has got to be uncovered. >> you are a big fan of dr. krauthammer. >> a big fan. >> does this designation by him that this is the biggest scandal does that surprise you?

>> i think it is a judgment call. some people could look at this and say politically looking at political impact the irs scandal might have a longer run piece but i'm very disturbed by the questions that he raises as well as the main ones about the stand down order and then, of course, how do they get from wherever they were on the friday night to the is sunday morning talk shows. and then they never explained it. it has been eight months and usually with something like this they should just come clean. it is not as if the media is going to hold anything against them now. why would they start now? just come clean with it all then there would be no problem for them. none. >> they lied and duped to -- then they are admitting they lied and duped the american people. >> there was a good and well sourced story this week that david petraeus the cia director was the one more responsible are in the misleading talking points than any one else. >> dana's h head just exploded. >> first of all, that article

about david petraeus was written by steven hayes two weeks before that. when the washington post writes it there is nothing new. if you take everything read that said petraeus was a huge ego and he was this and distracted and all, it doesn't answer the two basic questions that krauthammer mentioned. who gave the standdown order, what was the president doing at the time and how did they get to the youtube video because that was not in the original talking points that petraeus sends over. >> petraeus had his hands all over the talk points. >> i could care less about the talking points. for me it is who gave the standdown order. here is why the white house doesn't open their mouth about this. this he hope it goes away and the liberal left is pushing the narrative for them. i was on geraldo's radio show and spitzer is on and we got into the major brawl over something that is in the congressional testimony and in the media. a.p.

timeline. 5:00 p.m. over there. our guys e-mailed washington and said we are under attack. seven hours later two more americans were killed. at 1:00 in the morning stevens and smith were killed. seven hours later two more americans were killed and in between that time. gregory hicks testified there was a stand down order give ton all of the assets in the area, tripoli, italy, everywhere else and the left is trying to say that never happened about you tu did. >> that is murder. >> are you suggesting there were italian assets that could have got ton -- >> american assets in italy. seven hours away. >> you said we should send planes over. >> airplanes, drones. had it all. >> try something. don't be pathetic. we have the ability and means to not let americans bleed out and be murdered over hours. >> and tell us why we didn't. >> that is more the events. >> that is not the way we do things. the military is fearless. they don't leave men behind and leave people serving faithfully

this country requesting help for their lives. we do not send people overseas to be slaughtered because we decide like an accounting department that you are expendable. >> you better tell that to general custer's relatives. >> fine, i will tell them. >> how about the general who gave the orders out of africa. >> who is it? name him. let's talk to him. >> the. >> i don't know what that is going to tell us. >> keep going. >> huh? >> keep going. sometimes you to answer a question with a question he. when krauthammer asks what was the president doing at that time the question is does the white house have the golf channel because that is what he was probably doing? >> and if there is anything -- >> i'm not done. the mentality of thisis based on the misreading of violent antiamerican demonstrations and that comes from the top. people in the administration see he unrest and they immediately blame it on

america. they blame it on free speech and that reveals a weakness in resolve against our enemies and they can't get go of it. can'ted can't admit that theire ideology and world view is incorrect. the moment they are asked what happened why did you push is lie exposes them for who they are. >> even more in sidious is what is happening now. they are pushing the lie. >> they are standing behind it. >> not even standing behind it. fabricating and leaving facts out. >> they are investing in a false narrative that is the problem. >> we need to get the answers as well. i don't think you can say the entire left liberal position we do a cover up here. >> i just want to know what happened. that is all it is. >> they don't want to tell you because it is -- >> maybe they had a good reason for the stand down or maybe there is a good reason.

tell uss. >> i don't think the president was watching the golf channel but you say those things because he is not answering. he is not answering. >> a conversation between hillary clinton and barack obama would come down to executive privilege. >> that is the key and important thing. >> we will see about that. the end result this was not good for the national security defense because if you are a terrorist or jihaddist you say americans are going to leave their people behind and embassies vulnerable. this is a bad example and i don't think it is good for the troops and people serving in dangerous theaters. when we come back, the democrats put out the latest plan to sell obamacare to the american people. is it too little too late? we will debate it, next. stay with us. [ lisa ] my name's lisa, and chantix helped me quit. i honestly loved smoking,

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what is wrong with you? all right. >> that would take forever to answer. just kidding. democratic leaders gave a 78-page manual to members of congress to help answer questions about the murky pile of sludge called obamacare. do you think they bothered to read that, too? it is called the tool kit perhaps because it was designed like tools. obama care is like kale. anybody's whose appeal takes this long to explain had serious problem. congressional panels are looking into what the hhs secretary violated laws looking for cash for the obamacarrollout. worried that americans won't sign up for the plan if they don't know about it? expansion through ignorance is big government survival mechanism. what you don't know won't hurt you until it is too late.

if all of america acted like the tea parties and asked questions early on maybe we could have avoided this mess. that is why the irs can school matters. after all they will be enforcing obama care which is like lemmings enforcing a cliff. obama care has been about soaring rhetoric and high faluting ideas. even the unions are turning on the mess. the irs just gave small government america which is most of america its cold water in the face. they finally went too far and now we can all see what big government actually reasons. destruction that -- means. destruction that actually means directs. >> you said to me earlier the talking points for the healthcare bill is 78 pages. four times longer than the new obama care short form. >> the original form to apply was the number that people were just like that is too much. so they made a short form 21-pages long. the 78-page document is actually four times as long.

i had a rule of communications wise if you couldn't fit the talking points on an index card you had to go back and try again. i'm sure they have footnotes and the like. 78-pages even that becomes a laughingstock. >> for dana an index card is this. because of your size. it was a -- >> and i write really small. >> that didn't work. eric? >> fell flat. >> are you you falling, eric -- are you following the sebelius controversy. accused of acting improperly by seeking private donations? >> by something that was supposed to be done by the government to roll out obama care. another level of fail. >> a shakedown. >> a shakedown, too. it was in the research and we shaked it out. i called rand paul's office and said did you mean what he you said about this stuff? his office said there was 122,000 different diagnostic

codes in obama care. some 900 or something relating to animals. bit by a turtle this code and bit by a dog it is is this one. two for running in a pole. if you run into a pole there is a code for that. run into a pole a second time a different question. >> and the stripper pole. >> they probably have that in there, too. >> it is a joke. >> and the beckel code. i wonder if there is a code for being attacked by flying squirrels because i have them in my house. >> flying squirrels. >> in my roof. i thought the guy was playing a joke on me. i didn't know they exist but you told me they do. >> they probably have a code for that. >> i bet. >> before you bury obama care. the most the similar healthcare bill or program in the country is massachusetts. and one of these we have -- one of the things we he have been saying is people with small businesses with near 50 employees would drop the

employees insurance and let them go into medicaid. in massachusetts less than 1% have done so. it is a strong incentive not to drop out -- drop the employees out the healthcare benefits for two reasons. they are tax deductible. >> i thought it was obama care had taken the bad things about romney care and made it better. but now massachusetts is doing -- i'm just confuse. >> it is doing better. >> apparently it is good. >> good is bad and bad is good. >> i always thought it was a good idea. >> all right. >> okay. >> here is a surprise. >> up next, bob thinks he has new proof about why people shouldn't bother exercising. >> not. >> the suspenders will try to persuade you that too much running is bad for your health. >> there is his tree pose. >> that's next on "the five." don't miss it. [ male announcer ] running out of steam?

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♪ well, i have been telling you all for months now that exercise is bad for your health.

and now it appears that i was right. there is a large and growing body of research that indicates that people who run long distances particularly marathon runners like our producer porter berry are much more likely to die from heart attacks than people who like me eat cheeseburgers. >> i think it is from the hosts. >> i think we have to reassess all this. they have it on long distance running and you die. >> you die? >> the question is do you die with less he exercise? i think the research will come in and find out that you really do. for all considering exercising. reconsider it, will you. in it is is just the evidence is growing daily and you only have a certain number of breaths in our life. don't waste them. >> i run. every saturday and sun i run five or six miles each of the two days. >> don't you follow him on twitter? >> i put my running up on

twitter all the time. don't listen to bob. how about the discussion before the show before listen to bob. we are contemn plating what he looks in. >> we should put bob in shape wear. like manx like girls wear. someone tweeted bob -- >> i lost 35 pounds. >> that is great. you are swim asking your -- >> you think -- swimming. she walked up and down the pool with me with a stretcher. >> she was this big. >> no, i am telling you, greg, are you an exerciser? >> i used to be. i was very obsessed with it years ago. from an obvious stand point, the only reason you run 26 miles is if you are chased by a masta don

or an army. doing it for fun is weird. >> you want to bust him. >> you want to do it or should i? >> water of your bust is different. >> your bust is different. >> you mean amazing. (laughter) >> did i say good gives you a certain number of breast. i can't do the she because i am on the thread mill at the gym. allegedly. >> that is the smart thing to do things. >> that's the name of somebody. right. >> oh, data, and making a preferred -- i don't know. it was on the gym. go on downward dog. >> it is a security pack. and i think they should put those. every single thing in the gym and also it is all around.

we'll be back with one more thing up next. >> what is going on? .

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at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? >> it is time for one more thing. kimberly start. >> so elizabeth taylor's first wedding gown may be worth 45,000 to 75,000. it was her first marriage to conrad hilton junior. known as nicki. they were married in the good shepherd's church this beverly hills. this is the first one and we'll so how much it goes for. >> she's now going on to her sixth. how many is it? >> two. >> five at least. >> and bob, you can buy it for me. >> i can't do it. >> buy it on friday.

>> the dress is tailor made, right, kimberly. >> and you know, those of you who think that kids are the same when they are growing up and have the same personality and stuff. look at this picture of two kids. i want to thank kenna with this picture. they went to the dinosaur exhibit and she saw the dinosaur and the other little girl looked at them and thought it was funny. for all of the girls who think it is the same think. >> i like. this and in wildwood, new jersey, they have rules that require visitors to put up their pants and pull up a shirt and wear shoes on the town's boardwalk. >> the baggy pants measure requires a waist band. there was a psa in massachusetts that is like. this we have that? >> you think you look pretty

good wearing your pants like that, don't you? >> underwear, clothes and hip- hop style. there is something you may not know. >> it is against the law. >> it might be. >> and so my outfit. >> i would go there because of that. >> remember the time when bob porter had to get bob braces so he could hold up his pants for the she? >> one time i did the show here. >> last night kimberly was on redeye. i announced her book. >> how do we fix the economy? out of my sight. why unattractive people should be required to live on the earth's surface. photoshop made the cover for us. >> the people peeking out from the manhole is greg.

>> insigneuting we are ugly people. you can act like you are an author and annoy people. >> you can buy that book. >> maybe there is a bock in there somewhere. remember my uncle killed in world war ii, a guy e-mailed me and said i think i have a picture of your uncle. this is my uncle's crew in front of the airplane that they were shot down in this the south pacific in world war ii. >> how did he know in >> because of the name. he had the name from his uncle and grandfather who was one of the gentlemen in there as well. when you look at gentlemen who lost their lives for american lives.

adam levine you owe them. >> i don't think he meant it that way. >> he voted for a country music singer. >> and that is the bob move. you! ♪ >> is the irs still discriminating against conservative groups, this is special report. ♪ >> good evening, i bret baier and despite the outcry of the targeting of the conservative groups by the internal rev view service. >> the organizer of a tennessee