prayers. great strike. let not your heart be troubled. the news is coming up next. greta van susteren is standing by to go on the record and we will see you back here tomorrow night. >> greta: tonight, how high does it go? >> we are going to do our job on the irs. we are going to do our job on doing our oversight and what we already learned is just chilling. >> stunning new details in the irs scandal. new evidence that targeting of conservative groups was not only more widespread but also included high level officials. >> i see it as the arrogance of big government. >> i have not done anything wrong. >> remember the white house always said this was just rogue agents in cincinnati. but the new evidence shows dozens of letters with a stamped signature by the woman who headed the department in question, lois lerner. >> i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs

rules or regulations and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. >> 25 groups filing a lawsuit against the irs today and the chief attorney represent hing them is jay sekulow. >> i have been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of this hearing. >> i don't know what the department of treasury or what irs or what the white house is thinking. we have the documents because is we have been in dialogues with the irs for a year and a half. >> greta: and a former irs commissioner calling the irs failures catastrophic. mike everson ran the irs under president bush. he joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> thanks for having me, greta. >> greta: what we have been talking about all day long is the number of visits that mr. shulman as head of the irs made to the white house, a number of visits. how many visits did you make to the white house when you were

commissioner? >> i don't have an exact figure in mind. last year when i testified before the same house committee chaired by mr. issa was that to my recollection i only went over there once to discuss policy matters on an interagency basis. what i was getting to at the time, greta, i was concerned about the major role that the service plays in the affordable care act and the fact that it could potentially compromise the independence of the agency when you have the commissioner and his subordinates having to meet on a regular basis with officials over in that part of the government. >> greta: all right. so the fact that mr. shulman met 118 times at least that is the report we have at the white house when was the commissioner i guess part of the reason is because of the unique aspect that obamacare was being essentially implemented in part through the irs. is that a fair description of it? >> that is fair.

i think that the commissioner should have answered the question differently when posed because that is totally legitimate. you you say say as i said at the hearing last year i expressed my concern about the fact that the service was given such significant monte responsibilities under the affordable care act. i kind of got it wrong. i thought the controversy of the affordable care act would potentially damage tax ainistration as people filled out complicated returns and did all of the things they had to do this terms of that legislation. but it now appears frankly that the affordable care act is being made more controversial because of what happened most recently at the service. >> what has happened to the irs? how do wee have the situation where they are now accused and the evidence is quite powerful there is exact targeting and a lot of question whether it is simply low level or went higher up? how does this happen? >> let me first say that my experience at the service was

that from top to bottom people try to do their job impartially and get to the right answer and certainly to steer clear of politics. so i'm shocked and saddened by all these events. having said that, it is very serious because, one, for the service and secondly for the whole country because the irs interacts with so many citizens and it is such a fundamental part of the government. there are three things, though, to get to your question. first i think there were some people down in cincinnati just sort of for lack of a better term lost their minds. and they used criteria to review applications for exempt status that were just wrong and they were biased. secondly, at the intermediary level where lois was supervising the exempt organizations it took two years to get this right. that is unconsciencable. there were problems spotted in 2010 and they should have been

revolved promptly. what was happening in the front office there was no secret here. i was getting calls in '11 and '12 from people saying what is going on at the irs with the c 4s. i declined to answer that because i didn't know much about it. obviously it was of great interest to many people with congressional letters going in. the front office should have learned about it. shed ulmans it testimony should have been different and the record corrected as soon as he knew that his testimony was incorrect. >> greta: i think he did know. i'm looking at the testimony and he says i think there has been a lot of press about this meaning the targeting and later on said this is back and forth what happens when someone makes an application for tax extension. film' the commissioner of the irs and guy to a lunch and hear people complaining about some unfair aspects of the irs i would go back and think i would find out what in the world was

going on. he admits he knew about it from the press. that is notice at the very top and you think he would have had enough sense to say what in the world is going on. i think that is his obligation. i don't think he sits and waits for it to sort of trickle up to him. >> no, i agree entirely with what you just said. when you are running a component of government like that you set some priorities. but you also, of course, respond to events. you are accountable to the congress. the congress was raising issues and frankly you are foolish if you think that the media when it raises issues isn't going to figure out what is going on. it is in your own interest and your agency's interest to get on top it and that didn't happen here. >> greta: not only your own interests. even just the job. shouldn't be just that he is worried about himself. if he hears there is nothing you can think about that is more fatal to the irs than the idea they are going about targeting people.

nothing more vicious trying to scare people and their livelihoods and everything else. he heard about it in the resources and at best said it is the normal back and forth. when i read that my head almost exploded. didn't he care? >> what you do when you are in the situation congress is asking you difficult questions and you are not sure you say this is right this is an important issue let me look at it and come back to you. what was issued was an adamant denial there were now problems and in a short period of time it was known there were problems. what should have happened there, greta, the record should have one corrected. the idea there was an ig audit underway, be again, as russell george said not an investigation. that does not excuse inaction by the irs because i can just tell you if you don't get into managing the agency in the area that gao have under audit they have 20 or 30 audits underway at any given point in time.

you are not the going to be doing your job as you said. they should have taken a full hand on this. >> greta: i'm looking at mr. shulman's answer and he says he is asked about the political targeting of certain groups with political leanings. he says yes there has been a lot of press about it and also says that is the sort of normal back and forth that happens with the irs and goes on to say there is absolutely no targeting. nothing could be dumber or wrong or more incorrect than he said. that is what he was doing to a lot of americans as the head guy. he can't dump it off on some rogue employees in cincinnati. it went all the way to the top. >> there were problems at the bottom. at the intermediary level and problems at the top. what disappoints me, greta, and you may remember this, we had an active program in 2004 and 2006 that i launched to look at churches and charities accused

of politicking in terms of the '04 and '06 election cycle. c about 3s this revolved around mostly. can't help a candidate or oppose a candidate. we set up a unit within tege the governmental tax exempt group. it was out of dallas. it wasn't at the front end of the process where the people are doing the front work in cincinnati looking at the applications if you will. we did it and did it quickly and right before the election the naacp launched a broad site saying that we were trying to quash the black vote. i called up the same russell george and said russell, take a look at this. i think we done it correctly. nobody will believe, though, that we did. he did an audit on this, the same thing he did on the recent problem and came back in february of 2005 and said the service could have moved quicker here and could have had better guidance but in fact there was no bias and it was balanced as to how they selected organization o the

grounds for follow-up. i don't get it because i know the service can do this correctly. they did when we did the work in '04 and '06. >> greta: i would say that the commissioner did it by asking for the investigation. i don't see that happening here with this one. anyway. thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> greta: the irs in very hot water with many americans tonight and now the same irs is going to play an important role in implementing obama care. former senator jim demint is not happy about that one and joins us. nice to see you, senator. >> thank you, greta. >> greta: i know you don't like obamacare and would like to see it repealed. tell me the relationship obamacare to the irs. any o the ground way out -- anyway out of that one? >> we had a chance to see how the irs can work. they are too big and the code is so complicated and gives them so much room for corruption. >> greta: that is a good excuse. i think it is worse than that but go ahead. >> it is much worse but

obamacare puts the irs on rids.stair opens the door for the irs to come into all of our lives. every business life. you have over 2,000 new irs employees to implement obamacare. 18 new taxes or penalties that have to be looked that. over 800 billion north dakota revenue. for lower or middle income americans who will now have the irs looking at their income every year with us the subsidies in the irs depend on the income being at a certain level and then the irs shares that with hhs and other agencies involve that might be involved with implementing it. it is a nightmare are when you look at the irs and what they can be capable of and obamacare opens the door so much wider for them. >> greta: we can agree they are not going to be looking and recording whether you got a

colonoscopy or not. >> we don't know what it is going to lead to. >> greta: as it is written now a bill collector anded a best an organization to unwielding as to likely be incompetent and now might be corrupt at certain levels. >> obama has a committee decided what they will pay for. because money will increasingly run short they will be looking into whether things should be paid for. obamacare will tax you if you don't buy health insurance and it will tax you if you do buy certain levels as far as the expense. so i think it is going to affect almost every american from an expense standpoint but also additional vulnerability. i think businesses are seeing this as they get a grasp on what obamacare can do to their business the irs is likely to close a lot of businesses down just freezing their assets and studying all aspects of their business to find out if they

are doing this correctly. >> greta: you talk about some of the organizational aspect and how the irs, you know, it is so complicated and their taxes and how you say that it may impair business or impede business. that doesn't even take into account there are actually people in there frankly corrupt and want to make life miserable for some. we are seeing some people for whatever reason decided they are delegate to bevy showers and targeting people. >> we know they are targeting people and this administration has been trying to get their hands on people who contribute to certain conservative causes in. so bills that they have tried to pass. as a small businessman this scares me to death of what the irs could do. they don't have to be right. they don't have to have anything on you but you can basically shut your business down looking into all spects of this obamacare. >> greta: and usually if you challenge a tax of the irs you have to pay it first in order to be able to challenge it.

that is the other ugly think, to pay a tax and then get to challenge. can't just say i'm not paying it. >> they can freeze your bank accounts and do a lot of things. they have too much power. they are obviously arrogant. a big streak of corruption. obamacare does open this wide up. i hope every american wakes up and say if you like what you saw from the irs the last few weeks you are going to love obamacare. >> greta: i'm deeply troubled when mr. shulman when was head of the irs knew about it and looked the other way. nice to see you. how is the new job? good? >> great. >> greta: nice to see you. the tea party has its own target. they slapped the irs and attorney general holder and the treasury secretary with a lawsuit. the northeast tarrant county texas tea party is joining in the suit. nice to see you. >> good to be here. >> greta: you filed suit.

what provoked you to file a lawsuit against so many of the members of the obama administration and the irs? >> northeast tarrant tea party is one of the ten that have not received status so we have been waiting since fall of 2010 and still have heard nothing. >> greta: you set a deadline of last friday. what was that deadline all about? >> we sort of gave the irs an ultimatum. said if we don't have a response by friday of last week we were going to see the irs and being as arrogant as they are, they didn't respond. we heard are nothing. so today we filed a lawsuit not just against the irs but also against lois lerner, steven miller and a handful of other key players. >> greta: were you asking them to respond to the original fall of 2011 when you asked for tax exempt when you first applied? >> that was fall of when we first are applied. >> greta: fall of what?

>> 2010. >> greta: okay. >> we didn't hear anything until february of 2012 and now are finding out that lois and stevens both knew what was going on at that point at least as of january of 2012 and still did nothing. against the arrogance is just all over the place. >> greta: when did you give them the ultimatum they had to respond to you by last friday or you would file suit? when did you give them that ultimatum. >> the monday prior. all the news came out over the weekend and i believe it was the monday after that. >> greta: were you ask just to say yes, no, let us know? >> exactly. >> is that owl you wanted was an answer? >> right. we just wanted a yes or a no. can we have the 501-c (4 current or not?

>> had you supplied all of the documents -- >> the information they were requesting was a violation of privacy. we would never do that to the tea party members jet do you have an idea when your organization was is targeted? >> i would like to think it is because we are one of the best tea parties out there. you and i spoke last week sometime about -- you know, it is anybody's guess why they would have targeted us specifically. >> greta: have you felt intimidated at all or felt more emboldened by this? >> it was probably more intimidating at first. you know, we wanted to maybe withdraw our application or just give up. but as the days go by and we see how arrogant they are and we are empowered by people, you know, speaking up and cheering us on and everybody is on the same side. we all are appalled at what they are doing and we all need to hold them accountable.

i don't know if you saw jay sekulow said in one of his quotes today if the obama administration is not going to protect the constitution then we will. and that is exactly how northeast tarrant tea party feels. if no one else is going to do it we sure as heck are going to be out there and protect the constitution. that is why we are here. >> greta: thanks for joining us. 25 tea parties joined in a suit filed in u.s. district kortright here in washington, d.c. nice to see you. come back and keep us updated. >> will do that. thank you, greta. >> greta: we he want to know what you think. go to gretawire.com .com and answer this go to gretawire.com right now and vote. straight ahead. how high up does the irs scandal go? tonight, new evidence that should make lois lerner

worried. the latest is next. house companies on a new you mission. they want to know did attorney general holder mislead, even lie to congress. you will hear what the house judiciary committee will do from a member of the committee coming up. plus, congressman jason chaffetz admitting he is nervous about giving a big speech. what gets him so rattled? we admit this is a bit nerve rattling. we will tell you, coming up. as your life changes, fidelity is there r your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college, and revisit your investments as retirement gets closer. wherever you are today, fidelity's guidance can help you fine-tune your personal economy. start today with a free one-on-one review of your retirement plan.

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>> greta: new information that the irs scandal does higher than a few rogue agents in cincinnati. andrew stiles from the national review joins us. nice to see you. what evidence that is might go higher than the rogue agents in cincinnati? >> the more we find out everything that lois lerner said initially turned out to be misleading or just false. she was directly involved in sending the letters to groups. there are 15 letters with her stamped signature on it asking the invasive question that the odd kit uncovered, said was inappropriate. she has a lot of questions to answer if she is going to actually testify. >> greta: you say stamped. i wonder whether she knew anything about it or handed her stamp off to a junior and the junior is stamp crazy and

stamps everything. >> many irs officials throughout this have just been pleading income pa tense. i didn't know what was going on. we did our job poorly. if she testifies that is probably what she is going to say. i didn't see it and didn't know this was going on. but i don't think that is going to fly. >> greta: you get the people -- i keep calling them rogue -- the people in cincinnati. lois lerner in d.c. and commissioner of the irs, shulman the one during the operative times. he testified that the read the press reports that people are saying they are being targeted. any information he went back to the office and picked up the phone and asked anybody to take a look at it at all at any time? >> what he said before congress is, yes, he found out about this when the audit was initiated and sort of left it at that. he said oh, well, they are looking into this so i don't need to have any conversations

with any one. he doesn't recall talking to people. might have mentioned it to the treasury department at some point but doesn't remember anything. >> greta: so he did zero? he just let americans get targeted. didn't even issue an edict we will let the investigation go on but in the meantime don't do this? >> he has been cagey in the testimony. he says he rejects the word targeting even though that is exactly what the inspector general's audit says. he says this was corner cutting because we had all of the applications. we weren't targeting them. >> greta: he says it is the regular normal back and forth between agents and a citizen applying for it. this is what congress needs to do. compare the treatment to the tea party groups to people in another area of the political spectrum, liberal groups and see if they got the same treatment because that would be telling what they did and didn't. >> and that doesn't appear to be the case and the eg egg insr

general said there might be additional groups singled out for targeting. proisrael groups, some were singled out for targeting and there might be more to come. >> greta: is lois lerner going to be called back? >> the house oversight committee did not adjourn. they are in recess. so darrell issa can call her back to testify. i think that is likely. lawyers i talked to seem split about whether she will be compelled to the testify. >> greta: the dumbest thing in the world is put your chi mint the position that everyone is debating whether you waived or not. that is a lousy he position for her to be in. i don't know what advice she got. i'm taking the last word on that. nice to see you, andrew. >> thank you. >> greta: coming up, wait until you find out what furloughed government workers are doing.

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>> greta: house p ares want to know he about attorney general holder mislead and even lie to members of congress. he testified he was unaware of the potential prosecution of the press. he is not the only one getting hit with questions on the top existences. today, white house press secretary jay carney. >> are you satisfied with the responsiveness of the people sent up to answer questions. >> a broad question but the answer is, yes, and if it is specific to this answer the mat -- to this matter the answer is, yes. >> specifically even if the attorney general ruled out that he was going to prosecute rosen on the question of a potential prosecution he said "this is not something i have been involved in, heard of." we know he was involved in it at the very least. was he not telling the truth on

that point. he was involved in it. >> involved in what? >> he signed off on the search warrant. you are not involved after signing off on the search warrant? >> i would refer you to the justice department. you are complateing the subpoena with prosecution and i think that again, i would point you to what the attorney general said. >> but isn't it technical accuracy you are holding on to? >> i'm not. i'm saying based on what i have seen in published reports and what the attorney general said i don't see the conflict but i would refer you to the justice department. >> greta: congressman ronda santus joins us. a better has gone out to the attorney general tonight or today and they want to know by the -- by june 5 a new mexico of answers to questions including how he can claim to have never been involved in a

potential prosecution of a member of the immediatey but admittedly was involved in discussions regarding mr. rosen's e-mails. familiar with the letter to the justice department, i mean to the attorney general? >> i am. i have read it. >> greta: it says he has to respond by june 5. what happens if the attorney general doesn't? >> i think that will be up to the president to make a determination about whether this attorney general should still be serving. the bottom line with the testimony before the committee was he was asked bay democrat, a friendly democrat have you ever targeted members of the press for prosecution. he said that is something i have never heard of and he didn't think that was appropriate. we didn't know at the time about the james rosen search warrant so that came out a few days later. and it turns out not only was he involved with, it he actually approved the search warrant that listed mr. rosen as at aider, abetor or coconspirator. there is a tension between what he told the committee and his

actions in the case and to me i think they are irreconcilable and i think his position as attorney general is tenuous. >> greta: is there a difference between misleading and lying? >> yeah, of course. i mine it is possible that he actually never really believed that rosen was a coconspirator. he may have told the committee the truth that he honestly didn't think that. but what about the search warrant that they used and put in front of a judge or represented that? maybe the misleading wasn't in front of our committee, maybe it was actually in court documents but you got to ask yourself do you want an attorney general who is willing to sign off on this very sensitive matter knowing that what was there wasn't true. >> greta: some members of congress made the suggestion that he lied. some said that he misled and i wondered if in your mind there is a difference? >> i think there can be. a lot of it goes to your in it

tent. in other words, people asked if he committed perjury. you are a lawyer, greta, you know -- >> greta: a specific definition, it has to be material. that is a specific legal definition. i'm curious if you you would find it, you know, be one is worse than the other in your mind or not? >> sure. so if he knew if they honestly believe rosen was a cohe conspirator and he made the statement he made in front of congress, then that would be a lie. if he didn't believe that, then basically he was decept misleading the committee and in fact the untruth would be with what you submitted to the court. >> what do you want him to do? >> well, look, i think the attorney general his performance in front of our committee not even withstand the rosen matter i thought was dismal. he would not even answer basic questions about the ap sub pee issue.subpoena

says the white house found out a day before in the press. i think it is time for mr. holder to step aside. we need a new attorney general especially with all of the matters that need investigation from the irs to the doj treatment of reporters. i don't think he is in a position where he can do that in a way that the american people expect. >> greta: thank you for joining us, sir. >> thank you. >> greta: are furloughed federal workers about to get the last laugh? byron york joins us. nice to see you, byron. >> good to be here. >> greta: what is up with the federal workers furloughed? >> this is surprising. the sequester was designed to reduce federal spending. that was the whole point of that. and republicans argued that the administration didn't really need to furlough many workers, they could have saved money other ways. the administration said they had to. what we have is a situation where many federal workers are going to be furloughed for some

days this summer and what a number have figured out is they might be able to apply for unemployment compensation for the days that they are furloughed. there is a program called ucfe unemployment compensation for federal employees in which the federal government compensates states who give unemployment insurance to federal workers furloughed. we heard specifically about a case in pennsylvania in which a man, a federal engineer for the navy makes $100,000 a year, is going to lose about $4,000 in pay by being furloughed for days. trying to put those together in a block. not 11 fridays but you 11 days in a row and say that he was unemployed for are two weeks and receive unemployment compensation. >> greta: what is the better deal for the taxpayer? to pay the wage in if he went to work or unemployment. unemployment is cheaper so we are getting a little bit of a deal. >> unemployment would be

cheaper. are this conflicts completely with the spirit of the sequester. >> greta: i understand. >> and doesn't apply everywhere. may be some states where it doesn't a. >> greta: the reason everyone gets mad at the workers trying to get unemployment for the days they are furloughed. the reason they are furloughed is because the president and house and senate didn't do their job. the people who are furloughed in some ways they got the short end of the stick and are trying to survive. >> everybody agreed you could make the kind of cuts that the sequester actually made without the human cost of of the furloughs but they didn't do that so that is what we have. >> greta: and let's not forget that they aren't working on that today to try to fix the furlough. they don't have to even go with the sequestration if they could be working right now on this. >> the administration is some what in couraging this because if you go to the department of labor website you will see a sequestration page which has frequently asked questions about how to receive

unemployment compensation for furlough days. >> greta: how do you get the senate and house and president to do the job so they can properly run the economy so we don't have to furlough people? >> that is above my pay grade. >> greta: i don't get it. they go out and at the he have played golf and do all that stuff. meanwhile they have us in the sequestration that is hurting lots of people and now this conflict. >> it seems particularly insane to try to save money in one way and paid for it the other way around. >> greta: a paid vacation in some ways. byron, thank you. >> greta: a new battle brewing between north and south korea. find out why pop singer psi might get caught in the middle. >> greta: the voice of adam levine, a hot mike and live tv. what was he caught paying? you will hear it two minutes

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>> greta: adam levine is a rock star turned tv star so you would think he would know the dangers of a hot microphone. apparently not. during the episode of "the voice" he got upset about the elimination two of con seventh testants and voiced frustration under his breath and into a hot mike. >> only one more artist will join the others for the top six last show. >> i hate this country. >> greta: you heard right. he said i hate this country. that set off the wrath of viewers online. some calling for him to be fired and today he said i obviously love my country very much and my comments were made purely out of frustration. should adam levine be fired? yes, or no. go to gretawire.com and vote in our poll. we are back in two minutes. and tea parties.

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>> greta: can you imagine being held in a mexican prison? the mother of seven is still there. the american woman has been behind bars since last week when she was yanked off a u.s.-bound bus and accused of drug smuggling and tonight is talking about the terrifying moments when mexican police boarded the bus. >> i'm here to help he said. i'm here to put criminals behind bars and i said thank god im, i'm innocent. i thought she was going to help me. i was in shock. i'm like this is not real. this is not happening. they put my cuffs in my seat and in my hands and it was horrible. i'm going to free. i'm not guilty. i don't have nothing to hide. >> greta: and today she was back in court fighting for her release. h her husband gary joins us. gary, have you had a chance to speak to your wife today?

>> yeah, not too long ago for 20-30 minutes. >> greta: is there any update on when she is going to be released or if they he plan to release her? >> right now after the judge makes the decision this friday at 6:00 p.m. whether she is released or processed back into the system. >> greta: what is she saying about the conditions in the prison? >> they are not great conditions. she is behind bars and she doesn't have her freedom. just not good conditions to gentlemen be where she is at. >> greta: were you sitting on the bus with her when the bus was boarded? >> we had seats next to each other and we were sitting on o the ground the bus together. >> greta: did you see anything underneath her seat? >> i didn't see anything under either one of our seats. i didn't even know you can put anything underneath the seat. we just purchased tickets for the bus, headed back home.

we sat in our seats and we remained in the seats the whole time for the whole trip. >> greta: the most incredible nightmare. how are you holding up? >> i'm exhaust -- it has been an exhausting week for the team that we put together to help prove her innocence and here in mexico we have to prove innocence. so it is very exhausting for the whole team. we are all working hard in proving her innocence and she is exhausted. being behind bars. we have high hopes that our defense is a strong defense and our case is strong and she will be freed. >> greta: do you have any sense how she is holding up? >> she is strong and holding up pretty strong and she is very optimistic because she is

innocent that she will be free again. >> greta: is the u.s. government helping you out and giving you any advice because this is a prosecution in a foreign country? >> i'm pretty sure, though, that they have reached out and lent their hand. a few of them have reached out and called to find out about the case. he don't know about what goes on in the background. i know that the u.s. consulate found my wife where she was located and their job is just to make sure that she is being taken care of properly and then they helped me get an attorney for this and have been helpful. >> greta: good luck and we look forward to the judge's decision. and can't come soon enough. thank you, gary.

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>> the pop band only sings state-sanctioned songs. go to gretawire to see the girl band video just posted. thank you for being with us tonight. see you tomorrow, good night. i. >> bill: the o'reilly factor is on. tonight: >> there is only so many people out there that are republicans. admittedly they breathe fast because they are too dumb. >> you know what it is like to go to sleep every night knowing you work for a bunch of psychotic killers you bastards are probably going to end up killing me one day. >> bill: facebook is apologizing for allowing it worldwide. can anybody stop the hatred linked into the irs tea party scandal? we have a factor investigation. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something that i have ever been involved in. >> bill: did attorney general eric holder commit perjury in front of