>> jon: yeah, it is jenna lee's birthday. >> i knew you guys were up for something. i knew it. >> jon: we couldn't ask you which one but we did get you a cupcake. >> thank you. i will split that with everybody. the crew especially and you too, jon. thank you very much. >>'n. >> jon: thank you and thanks for joining us. >> jenna: not a day over 25. "america live" starts right now. >> megyn: happy birthday, jenna. fox news alert on some bad news for the justice department as it tries to deal with the scandal that is leading to calls for the attorney general to resign. welcome to "america live," everyone. i'm megyn kelly and the news has been breaking now for the past hour on this scandal. we have been reporting in recent days on how the doj is taking fire for spying on journalists, including the associated press and fox news correspondent james rosen. all without notice to the spied upon reporters. in what many view as a major violation of first amendment rights. the scandal has now reached a point where we are

hearing growing calls from the left and the right for mr. holder to step down or to be fired. so the doj reached out to major media outlooks in recent days saying come, in let's talk. let's have a chat. now eric holder did that because president obama ordered him to. but it turns out eric holder may have mucked up the effort because he wanted to have that little chat off 00 record. and hour by hour we have heard a growing number of news organizations saying no, no, and no. guy benson is talk show host and political town hall.com. it's like that time i tried to throw a party and nobody came. >> no one showed up. makes you feel bad. everybody has rejected his invitation. they said we would love to be there, eric. mr. holder will show up but we're not doing anything

behind closed doors. we are news organizations and we get paid to shine a light into dark corners not to keep the public in the dark. >> megyn, if this weren't a serious principle mistake here it would be laugh out loud funny. irony is rich. you have the attorney general who is trying to do damage control with the news media that is he really ticked off with the last couple of weeks with these revelations as you say he has been spying on a number of journalists without their knowledge. so he wants to assuage those fears and is a no, no, don't worry. we really understand. we value press freedom. we're maybe a little sorry about our seek is i. come into my office but don't report anything that's said. i mean, are you serious? you must be joking and fox news among others the "new york times" included, aren't laughing. as you say they have spurned the request and they won't be showing up. and good for them. >> the question is do you

bring the bureau chiefs in ron tried to put it in an article today. let me correct myself jennifer rubin coming on here at 2:30 put in an article today to try to insulate yourself and plead with the bureau chiefs and insulate yourself and then tell those bureau chiefs that they may not speak to any of their reporters who are aggressively reporting on the holder spying situation and is that situation, you know, even close to a remedy even close to it a remedy for repairing what he has done? >> of course not. i mean, the whole thing is a complete farce. it's embarrassing that they even made this request to begin with. they have been slapping the press in the face unbeknownst to the press now for a number of years. now their big kiss and makeup moment is an off the record session as you say with bureau chiefs where, i don't know, what are they going to do bring them in there and massage their egos a little bit. we care about you, we value you. if you mention anything

that was said in this meeting to your reporters. are the subpoenas going to start flying again who leaked what to their employees news organizations news organizations going along with it so far based on my information the "the washington post" and others what are you thinking? you have got to get with fox news and the "new york times" and the associated press and the huffington post. >> cnn mcclatchey. >> it's amazing. eric holder has managed to do the unthinkable. he has at least temporarily united the washington press corps against the obama administration and somehow continues to make it worse. i have to wonder who is managing his damage control and his public relations strategy here. it's disastrous. >> that's an interesting point. you don't often see fox news shoulder to shoulder with the "the washington post" and the "new york times." that is we're find ourselves because it's a matter of journalistic ethics now and whether we should be agreeing to have

this behind closed doors off the record come to jesus discussion with the attorney general who is alleged to be the wrong doer. it's not like he is some impartial person and wants to come in and say let me clean it up and help me clean it up. he personally signed off that named james rosen as a coconspirator in a crime prior to telling congress this past may, this month, that he never did such a thing, he has never been involved in even the potential prosecution of anybody. he is the one who did it he wants us to go in there and advise him how to protect ourselves from him. i'm speechless, almost. you have the president putting the attorney general in charge of the investigation into himself. i am sure that will be unsparing and thorough, right? the whole thing, let's -- let me float a modest proposal here. since the attorney general was the one who by the doj's own admission vetted and signed off on this

warrant that treated james rosen as a criminal for doing his job, and now he is trying to smooth things over with the press, how about this. instead of these off the record sessions hush, hush behind closed doors how about on the record nationally televised interview with james rosen. and james rosen can ask him the questions such as why did you want to see my personal emails? why did you tell congress explicitly that you never even heard about something like this happening when, in fact, you did it yourself? that's the sort of transparency the american people are demanding at this point and the fact that the attorney general is so far behind the curve and the white house hasn't fired the guy yet is mystifying. >> i have been saying all along you need somebody in that room who is going to say to him before we say anything, before we say anything in exchange about how to fix this problem that you created, as far as targeting journalists goes, how many of us have you spied on? what are the names and how many times?

let's fully define the scope of the problem before we fix it that's yet to be done guy. npr asked him about it and he said he can't remember how many times there are records and it can be determined. if we are going to go forward and have a kum ba yah moment no and let the healing begin we need to know how deep the problem runs. i will give you the last word. >> by the way, if he says he can't remember, that at least says to me that there are more instances out there that we don't know about yet. that would follow. if it was just the ap and james rosen, those are pretty easy to remember. two instances. he says he can't quite remember which, to me, at least leads me to believe that there is a lot more here that we have yet to discover and i think journalists and the public have a right to know. >> megyn: i mean at this point in particular we need to know what we are dealing with at the department of justice and whether we really do still have a free press in this country. guy, thank you. >> thank you, megyn. >> megyn: as we mentioned a moment ago in our next hour

we will be joined by a panel of seasoned journalists, washington reporters who will join to us weigh in on the doj's now failed effort at damage control. i mean you have got the vast majority, 80% so far who have weighed in and said we are not coming. you have had a couple who said "we will." what does this mean now? what now is standing between the attorney general and the healing because he has got he tried to reach out in a way that would have kept everybody in the dark and the news organizations said we have had enough of that so, no. and you have got congress he lied to them under oath and whether he committed perjury. you have got growing pressure from the left even. some on the left for him to step down never mind what's happening on the right. so what -- the damage control so far it's not going so well. so we will talk about that with our panel at 2:30 and see where we go from here. also in washington, we are seeing new scrutiny for the former irs chief and the significant number of times he visited the white house

during his tenure. it's more than we knew. public records show that douglas shulman made a visit to the people's house at least 159 times during president obama's first term. first we thought it was 118. that is an average of a visit every 9 days. think about that. i mean, like do you go to visit anybody once every nine -- who do you see other than your family once every nine days and the colleagues how work with in your office? now, by comparison, mr. shulman's predecessor visited the white house according to one report one time but at the most just a handful during his four years of under president bush. in fact, his predecessor described being at the irs inside siberia. they thought there was a reason for that it's supposed to be a quasiindependent agency that is not seen as an arm of the white house. mr. shulman was questioned about all of this at a hearing last week, two weeks ago. >> what would be some of the reasons you might be at the white house? >> um, the easter egg roll

with my kids. questions about the administerrability of tax policy they were thinking of. our budget. >> megyn: that's a lot of easter eggs. they must celebrate easter monday that i he we know of at the white house. why is it that the head of what is supposed to be, again, mostly independent agency spends so much face time with the president and his advisors? what were they talking about? we'll take a look at that with chris stirewalt coming up. we also have new developments today in the shooting death of a man in florida believed to have ties with one of the boston bombing suspects a muslim advocacy group cair is demanding civil rights investigation after learning that the chechen immigrant was reportedly unarmed when he was shot by an fbi agent interviewing

him about his relationship with tamerlan tsarnaev. he is the boston bomber who has already been killed. they were inquiring specifically a to what role if any, triple murder took place in massachusetts in 2011 may have indicated tamerlan tsarnaev as well as perhaps himself. but now he is dead. and a case trace gallagher first told us involved him with a weapon attacking the police has evolved into he had no weapon and now you are are got cair calling for civil rights investigation. >> sure, and the man you first showed there ibrahim and tsarnaev actually did mixed martial arts back in massachusetts. he was being interviewed third time by authorities. this time he was inside his orlando, florida apartment. there were at least six agents on hand from massachusetts, the fbi, et cetera. and the agents say todashev

had confessed to the killing of three men on september 11th. he also implicated tamerlan tsarnaev in the killing. saying they were afraid men would talk about a drug deal they had just completed. he was about to shine the confession when he lunged at police grabbed a knife or pipe. now there were r. reports he was unarmed. the fbi has only said officially quote when a violent confrontation was initiated by the individual during the confrontation the individual was killed. well todashev have pictures from the morgue to show he was shot seven times. once in the back of the head. the family calls the agents bandits and wants an investigation. cair, the council on american islamic reels is also calling for an investigation and one person we know was killed, megyn. this was, they say, the medical examiner a homicide. they will not release how many times he was shot. the investigation goes on but the family is now calling for answers.

megyn? >> megyn: trace, thank you. up next investigation into whether the obama re-election team was in contact with the state department in the hours and days after the benghazi terror attack. mark is next. a conservative in. i invest in what i know. i turned 65 last week. i'm getting married. planning a life. there are risks, sure. but, there's no reward without it. i want to be prepared for the long haul. i see a world bursting with opportunities. india, china, brazil, ishares, small-caps, large-caps, ishares. industrials. low cost. every dollar counts. ishares. income. dividends. bonds. i like bonds. ishares. commodities. diversification. choices. my own ideas. ishares. i want to use the same stuff the big guys use. ishares. 9 out of 10 large, professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. introducing the ishares core, etfs for the heart of your portfolio. taefficient and low cost building blocks to help you keep more of what you earn. call your advisor. visit ishares.com.

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[ woman ] i love the convenience of adt. i can finally be in two places at once. [ male announcer ] helping to protect your business is our business. adt. always there. >> megyn: new developments today into the investigation into the terror attack that killed four americans in benghazi, libya last september. the republican national committee now demanding any emails between the state department and the president's re-election team. in the hours and days after the attack. here is the rnc spokesman earlier today. >> i think what the request seeks is to find out if there is any communication between the campaign and the state department in or around the events that occurred in benghazi to get an understanding of whether or not there was any political involvement in the creation of the talking points or the -- or the response after the fact.

>> megyn: turning to mark, fellow at the american enterprise institute and former speech writer for president george w. bush. so, mark, they want to find out whether the campaign was trying to negotiate, massage, this message on what happened in benghazi. right now it sounds like a hunch to me. doesn't sound like they have reason to believe the campaign operatives were coordinating with state. what's your thought? >> well, it is certainly more likely than finding a rat on mars. it's a fishing expedition to be sure. but i wouldn't be surprised if there are fish out there. the state department is an american institution that is supposed to be independent, nonpartisan completely before politics. you know what's another american institution independent above politics the irs. if i had come on this show a couple months ago and said that the irs was targeting the president wants political opponents and the irs commissioner had been to the white house 157 times, most people would have thought i was crazy. it's not that farfetched to think that the supposedly non--that the virus of

politicization in fact that affected the irs somehow the state department is immune from it i think it's perfectly fair question to submit this foir request. >> megyn: somebody who used to work in government at the white house under president bush, how unusual would that be to have the campaign operatives directly emailing state saying make sure this doesn't come back on us or whatever it is they are fishing for. they are not that dumb, are they? >> no. very unlikely that this is going to uncover anything. and the reason is probably if there is coordination with the obama campaign it would have been through the white house. it would be highly unusual for someone at the state department to be in direct contact and circumventing the white house obama campaign. it is not out of the realm of possibility. they would be stupid doing it using their official email accounts. >> megyn: which they know is subject to disclosure. i want to ask you something else because now these house republicans are pushing on benghazi again.

now what they want to know of the secretary of state is what is the status of the state department employees who were faulted by that now infamous arb report that took a look at everybody except for hillary clinton and so on? who is to blame, what happened, why we didn't have the security we should have and so on. we did have four names of state department employees who had messed up, including the one who comes to mind charlene lamb kept saying the security was adequate on the ground even though four people died. so they are demanding to know what is the status of their employment and the way it looks right now, marc, no one has been fired. >> yeah. my understanding four people placed on administrative leave including charlene lamb. nobody has been fired. that's exactly right. i mean, look, there is no consequences for any of these things. the woman at the irs who was targeting. >> megyn: lois lerner. >> targeting people she is

still employed. nobody seems to lose their jobs except the irs commissioner did in that case. >> megyn: who was leaving two weeks later anyway. >> exactly. exactly. and allowed to retire with benefits and all the rest of it. john boehner said there ought to be a criminal investigation not a firing. the administration makes a lot of noises about investigation and doing the right thing. as we know from the whistle blowers, the arb was wholly inadequate. haven't suffered any serious consequences. >> megyn: they are on paid leave according to rand paul's office told the "the washington post" that paid leave, paid vacation basically still. now we have lois lerner on paid vacation over at the irs. so is there a reason, i know it's hard to civil servant. in those reviews they try to argue i should not be fired and here is why this

is what was posited by some on the right they call it hush money. the payments in salary they got on paid leave, the theory is, does not want these people making noise in appeals about why they are not to blame. >> yeah, there is a point to that i mean, the reality is we have due process and even in the criminal system, we also administrative system contest if somebody charges them with negligence or misconduct, they have a right to contest it until they have been proven through some due process, then they shouldn't necessarily be fired. eventually, there have to be consequences for these things. it's sort of like it's becoming with the obama administration like the rubber rooms in new york public schools where you have all these employees sitting there collecting millions and millions of dollars in pay because you can't fire them. same deal. mark tee thee sen, thank you. controversies in our nation's capital are

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>> megyn: well, some new numbers out today on the economy. the number of americans applying for first time unemployment benefits rising last week to 354,000. that is slightly higher than expected. meantime, pending home sales at the highest level we have seen in three years. experts say both sales and prices began to recover last year in part because of the historically low mortgage rates that are out there right now. in new jersey, one of the big stories today concerns how state prison inmates collected about 23 million in state benefits in 2010

and 2011. money they were not entitled to. and that just adds to concerns over food stamps and their cost to americans. and the taxpayers. this is a brand new study finds the entitlement program is pumping billions of dollars into one state's economy. steve harrigan live in miami with more. >> megyn, florida is being very aggressive about pursuing all the food stamp and other benefits its citizens are entitled to. not everyone thinks that's a good idea. >> milk, bread. >> by the third week of the month, nelson's $240 in food stamps has run out. leaving her $9 in cash and seven people to feed. [inaudible] child support. >> 50-year-old single by swimming across the rio grande has government funded housing, medication, and $700 a month in social security. >> when you really, really need it, go look for help before it's too late.

>> that's sage is heard in florida. where expert navigators now help clients apply online for multiple federal aid programs at the same time. the goal of the privately funded recruiters is to increase federal aid to florida by $1 billion a year. >> many of the services might be assistance with rent, assistance with electricity. besides the basic needs like snap, foot stamps or medicaid. >> others say efforts to expand uncapped federal aid programs threaten to create a culture of dependency. >> government efforts to expand these programs like food stamps has broken down a traditional american reservation to not want to go on government handouts. >> just today florida's governor rick scott signed a bill that would outline the use of electronic benefit transfer cards and strip clubs and casinos.

new polls out today show the controversies in our nation's capital suddenly taking a bigger hit on the commander and chief's numbers than we knew yesterday. we will debate those numbers yet. we are hearing directly from a mother locked up in mexico on some questionable drug charges. she could face 10 years in prison if is this case goes forward and she gets convicted as we now see new support for the theory that he is being set up by the mexican government. and new fallout from a troubling case of a 911 call that resulted in one woman being brutally attacked inside her own ohome. we will tell you about the lawsuit that has now been filed and wait until you hear what she was told to do. >> i don't have anybody to send out there. >> okay. >> you know, obviously, if he comes inside the residence and assaults you, can you ask him to go away? [ indistinct conversations ]

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>> megyn: a new threat for severe and damaging storms that's already produced more than 60 reports of tornadoes this week. people from north texas to minnesota could be affected by the severe weather. first alert forecasters warning of large hail, dangerous lightning and a possible risk of tornadoes. we'll update you as we get new reports of watches and warnings right here. some new polls after weeks of sort of holding steady have changed. and what we saw was sort of a safe from the storm situation at the white house as these controversies unrolled and

now today we see something very different. the president indeed taking a hit in his approval and his trustworthiness rating as americans want more answers. according to one poll from quinnipiac university, the vast majority of voters, 76% want a special prosecutor to be brought in to lead an independent investigation into the irs. this after that agency admitted that it targeted conservative groups for extra scrutiny. according to the pollster there is year whelming bipartisan support for that idea. that's not all we learned. joining knee now bernard whitman former pollster for president clinton and democratic strategist and tony a republican strategist and fox news contributor. put aside for the moment whether it is a good idea to appoint a special prosecutor to look into the irs nonsense. right? let me start with you as somebody who used to advise the white house, as a politician, if you are barack obama and you are looking at this and you see the american people, 76% of them agree on anything, right? agree on anything, do you

do it? just do it because it gives you a little political cover? >> i actually am in favor of appointing an independent investigator. i think that's in keeping with barack obama's pledge for greater transparency. i think that we have to make sure that investigation though is independent. independent means independent and not some mad dog puppet of the republican congress all it can star the president. >> and because of that try to depoliticize and get to the answers. the american people have spoken very clearly investigation also believe that the white house has not been involved in this. if the white house has nothing to hide which i don't think they do. i think these were career bureaucrats trying to do their job and investigate it to get to the bottom of it so it doesn't happen again. >> megyn: that's the thing when we talk about tried to mention it a while ago stirewalt coming up. up to 159 visits. douglas shulman the irs

commissioner during the bulk of this nonsense from the irs visited the white house that leads us to say it wasn't a about the easter egg roll, doug. what else were you talking about. may have had nothing to do with the irs targeting scandal. the president's refusal to go with the special prosecutor route and instead say eric holder is going to look into. thisache holder's favorability and truth worthy has never been lower leads people to say what are you hiding? >> embroiled in own problems as well. also probably needs to appoint a special prosecutor what's happening at the doj as far as the rosen warrant. >> megyn: i have one investigating me and the irs. >> if took bernard's position i would say that's something i admire. left's have transparency and independent assessment of what really happened at the irs. they haven't up to this point. tried to relegate the fact as you point out, megyn, the irs commissioner and the irs still are in the executive branch. the commissioner went to the white house over 150 times. the secretary -- deputy secretary of treasury in

june of last year was informed of the ig's investigation. the white house counsel, the white house chief of staff all knew about it in march of this year. this poll shows what we have known all along which is that plausible didn't argument can't hold water for long when the connections with this matter go right back to the west wing. >> megyn: the other thing that these polls found that of all the scandals, scandal mania in a chris stirewalt called it is out there right now. which do you think is the most important and by far they said the irs. 44% belief the irs scandal is the most important. they put benghazi at number 2. 24% say that's the most important and 15% say the a.p. the doj spying on reporters is the most important scandal out there. most important in the nation. so the people care about this bernard. they are watching the irs scandal in particular. what can the president do short of appointing a special prosecutor which i note for the viewers some of our republican pundits and lawyers have come on and said, trust me, you

don't need to go that route. that's going to extend the process and put it into the hands of lawyers, congress can do this investigation. forget eric holder what he does, congress can do it. your thoughts? >> i actually do think we need a complete and transparent airing of the facts. ultimately what that will show is it was political profiling. and actually, i'm not opposed to political profiling provided it's done to the other -- >> megyn: provided it's done to the other side. >> equally on both sides. >> wasn't equally on both sides. >> hold on. >> got to be guidelines to this and point of the investigation should be understand what happened, how it happened and set up rules so it doesn't happen again. >> megyn: we are trying that we are trying to get those answers. and what do we hear from steve miller? huh? who? i don't know. i don't know who it was. i named names. i will look into it i don't know. they are not naming names. they are not helping us understand. >> last thing i want as a democrat is a six to nine

month investigation serve as distraction to solving the true problems that the american people want solved and that's the economy. if theist through the doj cannot have a public airing of the facts with an understanding why it happened, how it happened and who was responsible what are the guidelines to make sure it's done in a balanced way to go forward then we have to go that route. >> megyn: i will let you respond. two other polls do you approve or disprove of the way the irs is handling its job? >> 66% say disapproved. before the scandal. would you describe the situation with the irs as a scandal or not. >> 53% say it is a scandal when asked do you think that the administration deliberately mislead the american people about the situation with the irs. >> 40 percent said they deliberately mislead. 45% say they shared the facts as they became available. >> 53% are calling it a scandal. labels are important with these other controversies a lot of controversy calling them scandals, it is one people wrap their hands around it even civil

libertarians and progressives understand that the violation of someone's first amendment right and being targeted for the political opinion. the books they read and prayers they say organized way. >> excuse me, bernard, these were pro-republican pro-israel, pro-family. these were all targeted. these were all groups that were targeted because of their opposition to the the american people think it marries. a lot of democrats like to dismiss it people enemy a democracy have to have confidence that their institutions are serving them ethically and correctly. even if they don't a agree poll taken 10 point hit since september 11 trustworthiness and honesty. question if he doesn't do more he is going to wind up regetting it i have got to go. thank you both so much. >> thank you. good see. >> you as a house panel looks into whether the attorney general lied under

oathing about journalists. we will speak with one of the leading administration critics in the senate who has taken his own fair share of criticism in these past days and weeks ted cruz many people feel he is the future of the republican party today joins me live weighing in on attorney general eric holder's troubles, the irs scandal, and what the future he says might hold for him. and, up next, the trouble in case of the 911 call that went unanswered and the fallout and wait until you hear now about a lawsuit. >> i don't have anybody to send out there. >> okay. >> you know, obviously, if he comes inside the residence and assaults you, can you ask him to go away? when it came to ur plants, we were so confused.

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>> megyn: growing controversy over budgets and public safety after an oregon's woman's call to 911 goes unanswered, basically. it happened in august of last year, but the audio recording only recently surfaced. the woman calls for help after her violent ex-boyfriend showed up at her door. she was transferred to the state police because her local sheriff's department isn't staffed full time and didn't get much help from them, either. listen. >> i don't have anybody to send out there. >> okay. >> um, you know, obviously, if he comes inside the residence and assaults you, can you ask him to go away? or do you know if he is intoxicated or anything? >> i've already asked him. i already told him i was calling you.he has broken in bd

broke down my door and assaulted me he. >> is there any way you can safely leave the residence noia, he is blocking pretty much my only way out. the only thing i can do is give you some advice and call the sheriff's office tomorrow. obviously, if he comes in and, unfortunately, has a weapon or is trying to cause you physical harm, that's a different story, you know, the sheriff's office doesn't work up there. i don't have anybody to send. >> megyn: thank you for that it only got worse from that point. the man did not go away. he broke into her home and he raped her. joining me now is sally kohn. fox news contributor and monica crowley talk show host and fox news contributor. now we are told that there is a pending civil litigation. that's from the oregon state police pending civil litigation. the question is how did this happen? >> you know, so this is a

unique place in oregon we should say and where this is actually tied not just to local budgets but to federal budgets a lot of the policing in this area was paid for by federal money that helped subsidize because they have a lot of federal lands there. >> megyn: their main industry is timber and we were subsidizing that and now we took it away. >> federal lands you can't tax because the federal government owns the land so they instead subsidize that and that helps pay for public services. this is a direct result of some of the cuts that we're seeing at the federal government. it's also a direct reminder of why we need public servants, our military, our police, our firefighters and that when we talk about abstract numbers cutting budgets that those mean people's lives. people's lives are at is stake. this is tragic. >> megyn: as far as cause and effect the law when you analyze the causing fact. taking away of those federal subsidies, the cause and fact of this woman's harm i don't know if we they're yet. they did have to cut back on their police laid off 23

deputies and only had six left after they took that subsidy away. >> story is beyond bleevment sad state of affairs. put things in perspective. federal, state and local waste so much money on so much crap. we see all of the waste, fraud and abuse that goes on. we don't see any budget cutting unless it's a very prominent thing like this. so when they waste so much money and got these exorbitant pension cost thanks to government unions perhaps it shouldn't go and cuts that shouldn't happen should be doing. like police protection that is a basic function of government. the fact that they can't even do that is outrageous. it's about prior prioritizing. >> some are saying this is about personal responsibility and how you shouldn't be dependent on the government for anything. you can't depend on the feds to subsidize your town

and make sure it stays afloat. that's not the business of the federal government. clearly you can't depend on the state troopers. could you ask the potential rapist to go away? >> that was insane. state troopers honest. i when that woman was there she wasn't on the phone thinking oh my gosh all this waste fraud and abuse. i want government here right now to help me, which is at its best what -- >> why can't government be there is the question? >> megyn: let me ask you this. this sheriff had come out and said people might want to consider relocating to an area with adequate law enforcement services after he had to cut back and similar thing happened in wisconsin. and there the sheriff came out i want to come out and talk about your personal safety. you need to be prepared. you need to take a safety course. this is why this woman needed a gun. a way to protect herself?

>> yes, exactly. first of all. when it comes to the role of government. the taxpayers in this town and community, they put this to a referendum. will you go for a tax hike in order to cover these costs and get more police protection in. those residents said no. they said we are enough already. government you go and prioritize so you can do what you are supposed to does a government. more and poor people because this is such a sad and dangerous state of affairs. more and more people are saying wait a minute, if i can't rely on the government then. it increases the right and the ability for people to be able to protect themselves. that means fierce protection of the second amendment. that means if this woman had a gun, she may have been able to. >> she did not have a gun. she said she didn't have one. oregon doesn't have the strictest gun laws in the country. >> this is no way to condemn the victim at all. weave all know who is responsible for this which is the perpetrator. if you live in this town where it's lost all this subsidy. had no industry to support

itself. the sheriff is saying i advise you to go live some place else. you don't get to protect yourself even though you have this violent ex. can you really turn around and sue the police for not being there? >> you no he, it's a fair question. and, lack, we should note that she does have a right to have a gun. she could, in oregon, have a gun. you know, there is also some other factors to put in place here. this ex-boyfriend of hers was obviously strong enough to break down her door and choke her while he assaulted her. the odds that if she had a gun he would have likely got than gun away from her. if we are going to deal with hypotheticals this could have gotten worse. >> she could have shot him. >> fended off this attack and it's a right to self-defense. >> that's right. she has that right. let me just be clear. we also want to deal with facts not hypotheticals. every one woman who defends herself with gahanna, 83 are hurt by gahanna. >> megyn: you have got to know if you are sitting in this woman's position, you need something. she needed something.

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>> megyn: fox news alert. moments ago the state department confirmed that it has now spoken directly with the arizona mother who is being held in mexico on questionable drug charges. we are hoping to learn more on that conversation in a moment. but, in the meantime, that mom is speaking out for the first time about the alleged crime that she is facing potential charges for and saying she was framed. trace gallagher has the story. >> this is very important, megyn. we now have pictures of the marijuana actually attached under that bus seat. as you look at these

pictures understand now the allegation. they are saying that she walked on this bus and that she apparently had these two big packages. before she sat down, take a look at this. this is the same picture from two sides that she actually took a bunji cord and attached packages of pot to the underside of the seat, right? witnesses have already testified that maldonado walked on the bus with purse and two blankets. she and her husband were the last two on the bus and took the last two seats. they have seen the bus surveillance video and it shows exactly what the witnesses said and they are now rushing that video to the court. and in her first prison interview. maldonado says she she cannot believe this is happening. listen. >> i was in shock. i'm like this is not real. this is not happening they put my-cuffs in my hands. it's horrible. i'm going to be free.

i'm not guilty. i don't have nothing to hide. >> prosecution star witnesses the federal yes or federal police who arrested maldonado. reports they finally showed up today. the question is will the judge still testimony, the judge is expected to rule by 6:00 p.m. tomorrow night. could rule earlier. right now the evidence is still open. if he rules that she goes to trial she could sit there for three or four more months. >> potential 10 years in prison. thanks. up next, the former head of the irs, as we learn more about the significant number of times he personally visited the white house. plus, ted cruz is here live. >>

>> megyn: fox news alert, a growing scrutiny of the former head of the irs and what's behind the significant number of times, unprecedented as far as we can see, he personally visited the obama white house. what were they talking about? brand new hour here of "america live." welcome, everyone, i'm megyn kelly. former irs commissioner doug shulman and his extensive access to the white house coming to light in congressional hearings as he faced tough questions over the irs's targeting of conservative groups. we did some digging into the white house visitor's log and it shows that mr. shulman, the head of what is supposed to be a mostly independent agency, it's a quasi political agency. a couple of political

appointees but the agency itself is not supposed to be political. visited the white house far more than we knew when he testified before congress. at least 159 times. from january of 2009 when president obama first took office until november 2012 when mr. shulman's term ended. that is an average of one visit every nine days. chris stirewalt is our fox news digital politics editor and host of "power play" on foxnews.com live. i can't think of a person i visit every nine days. honestly, your immediate family, your colleagues that you work with in your office, and then the number of -- i mean, it's almost once a week that he was going over to the white house. and he would have us believe that it was routine that he wanted to roll another easter egg. that's what he told us when he testified before congress, chris. even now the former evidence the irs has weighed in saying i think i went once and that's because it's important to maintain your independence

and the appearance of independence. your thoughts on that? >> yeah. i mean, you said his access. but there is also the willingness and that's a question here. and that's the issue that's been raised. the irs commissioner is, remember what the irs is, is a law enforcement agency. it is like the fbi. it is semi autonomous. it has a head, who is picked by the president but confirmed for a term longer than the president. the idea is that this person will have some flexibility to do as they think best. sense the terrible scandals had previously occurred with the irs 40 years ago and beyond with the irs being political enemy. this has become even more necessary as people said no. this is an autonomous office. much like the fbi director let's say who is also the head of the law enforcement agency that they say we're doing our job and we're not going to be in the political game.

going to the white house thatch is weird. >> megyn: people don't have to take your word for it or my word for it. forminger irs petitioner who preceded doug shulman emerson. he appeared before in 2012 to talk about how the irs might be enforcing new tax regulations we are going to face under obama care the new taxes we are going to pay. many of us under obama care? he was talking about the need for the irs to be and to appear independent of the white house. here is how he put it. great deal of independence from other agencies. i worry direct participation of the service in a major nontax administration initiative has the potential to erode the historic independence of the service. and let me be clear here, i have nothing but the highest regard for commissioner shulman and his team. i'm not suggesting i have

seen things but i just think when you bring a service in closer to the white house and to other agencying agencies you run the risk of eroding that independence. >> megyn: shulman went 159 times and that guy we just saw went once? >> once. and by comparison i believe that the director of the fbi, robert mueller went maybe five times over that same period. a scant number of visits for a guy who is running the most important federal law enforcement agency. so, there is something going on here with mr. shulman. now, he could be -- the white house could be totally fessing up and so could have shulman in his testimony to say all we ever talked about was easter eggs and the president's healthcare law and insurance mandates. that's all we ever did. nobody ever said hey, how is it going with targeting conservative groups for special scrutiny from the irs? maybe nobody ever said anything untoward.

the reason you don't go to the white house campus 159 times when a bad thing like this happens your plausibility goes to zero this is what he told congress. this is how he phrased the need need for all these visits here. >> what would be some of the reasons you might be at the white house administerrability of the tax policy they were thinking of. our budget. us helping the department of education streamline application processes for financial aid. >> the problem for him is that initial answer on the easter egg roll was a little snarky. it suggests that he doesn't want to be forth right. the hackels go up when he says that. easter? i'm not the most observant

catholic but it only comes once a year, right? >> even the protestants we only do it once a year, too. that's all we have got, megyn. >> megyn: suggests a man who does not want to are for the right i'm saying that answer yet again leads to more questions. >> leads to a lot of peeps. i don't know how much he now regrets his testimony. i can be very certain though that the president regrets that mr. shulman conducted himself in this way and had such a bad outing. the questions continue you were talking about it earlier today americans know they want a special prosecutor to look into what happened at the irs. until we have answers about what they were talking about all 15 times when it wasn't about eggs and peeps and everything that happened and who was responsible and what did lois lerner know and when she knew it and all of this stuff that has to be dragged through. until that happens, it's only going to get worse.

>> megyn: we don't know that much about mr. shulman appointed by president bush. we know he donated $500 to the democratic national committee. so, you know, back in 2004 that was. so, we don't know exactly what his political persuasion is or whether he decided to get more political than we have seen in former irs chiefs. hopefully time will tell. maybe president obama is getting audited. [ laughter ] >> we'll look into it. >> megyn: thanks, chris. >> you bet. >> megyn: coming up, speak life with texas republican senator ted cruise a member of the senate judiciary committee and outspoken critic of irs scandal. we will also ask him about the investigation into potential perjury charges into attorney general eric holder and his own much debated plans for the 2016 presidential race. you have seen the vial hateful remarks going

senator cruze's way since we heard that michele bachmann is not going to seek re-election because they are both tea party backed candidates. wife hate on him just because michele bachmann is leaving congress? we'll talk about it when he joins us live. breaking news in the crisis in syria today. syrian president bashar al assad had earlier said that his government has received the first shipment of air defense missiles from russia. but sources are now telling us that the syrian president may be stretching the truth a bit. national security correspondent jennifer griffin has the latest live at the pentagon. jennifer? >> hi, megyn. u.s. officials tell fox syrian president bashar assad was lying when he told a hezbollah television interviewer that the russians had delivered the surface to air missile system to assad's security forces. quote from the assad interview were published in lebanese newspapers today. two senior u.s. officials privy to central intelligence matters tell

fox that they are watching these matters closely and there has been no delivery s 300 is an advance air to surface missile mobile and difficult to protect and defend against. it would make it more difficult western allies to set up a no-fly zone. israel has threatened to take military action if those russian missile shipments were made. chairman of the joint chiefs general martin dempsey explained earlier this month why the u.s. would consider delivery of the russian s-300 a game chamber. >> -- changer. >> what i really worry about since assad decides he has got these systems he is somehow safer or more prone to a miscalculation. so, you know, again, an unfortunate decision. >> meanwhile, syria is deeply divided opposition is calling for help from the town of where battling

secretary of state john kerry evidence iranian fighters are on the ground in syria as well. senator john mccain just returned from unannounced trip to syria in recent days to meet with rebel forces and continues to press the administration to get involved and remove assad. the u.s. and russia are trying to arrange a peace conference in geneva but the opposition refuses to allow assad to attend a nonstarter for russia, megyn. >> megyn: jennifer, thank you. as the house judiciary committee looks into whether attorney general eric holder lied under oath about the targeting of journalists, he we will speak with senator ted cruz a member of the senate judiciary committee. we will ask him about the attorney general troubles, the irs commissioner scandal and the his own plans for the presidential 2016 presidential race. reports into the investigation of the triple murder that may have involved one of the boston bombing suspects as we get reports that a man, who was friends with tamerlan tsarnaev and living down in florida may have been unarmed when he was fatally

shot by the fbi during an interrogation. this man's father now speaking out. >> they were torturing the man for eight hours. there was no lawyer. no witnesses, nobody. until we get the results of the investigation. we can only guess what was going on there.

is. >> megyn: developing right now a congressional investigation is underway into whether attorney general eric holder lied under oath to congress. lawmakers now trying to clarify the attorney general's testimony about his knowledge and involvement in the potential criminal prosecution of journalists. joining me now texas republican senator ted cruz a member of the senate judiciary committee. senator, good to see you. >> always good to be with you. the conduct of the justice department does not inspire confidence.

we have seen pattern after pattern with respect to investigation of the media. we have seen the department of justice willing to seize the phone records, to seize the emails of this network, of the associated press and by all appearances the attorney general went before congress, stated he had nothing to do with it it's become public that he did in fact have quite a bit to do with it the attorney general needs to come forward and explain what the truth is and why he told congress something different. >> megyn: our viewers should know you went to harvard law school. you clerked for chief justice william rehnquist. you were the solicitor general down in texas meaning the top appellate arguer. and then you worked for the department of justice under president bush. you were the deputy attorney general. you know a thing or two about being attorney general and about the law. how unusual is it in your experience for the doj to be going after reporters, their records and so on? is this something that

would likely stand out in eric holder's mind? >> it's unprecedented. and the degree of willingness of this administration to target, to target a reporter for this network as an unindicted coconspirator? i mean, that is without precedent. and, unfortunately, i think it's part and parcel of a pattern from this administration of not respecting the bill of rights. north respecting the first amendment. not respecting the second amendment. not respecting our fourth and fifth amendment rights regarding drone strikes. regarding the irs. over and over again the pattern we have seen is unfortunate willingness to use the machinery of the federal government as a tool and a partisan tool to punish those perceived as your political enemies. i think that's really troubling, particularly when combined assemble and mislead the american people. do you think this comes from the top. >> well, it certainly -- we have seen the lack of

candor from the attorney general and there has been a pattern at the department of justice of disregarding law. let me say as someone who served in the department of justice who respects -- department of justice is an institution that reveres the law and has a solemn obligation to follow the law. when you have the u.s. department of justice disregarding the law, multiple times, that raises serious concerns. >> megyn: do you think president obama should ask for eric holder's resignation? >> yes. absolutely. and i think the reason is this department of justice has common traited willingness to disregard the law. if you go back to the fast and furious scandal where the u.s. department of justice was responsible for selling guns to mexican drug cartels, those guns were used to murder hundreds of innocent civilians. and at least two federal law enforcement officers. megyn, you practice law a long time. if you or i sold guns to drug cartel, we would be

thrown in jail. >> and, yet, in that case, they basically fired nobody. ultimately a couple people resigned, the desk chairs were shuffled why talked about how in the state department in the wake of benghazi you have got four people on paid administrative leave. no one gets fired. so far the irs may ask for the rifings of one guy about to leave i. anyway and another guy. >> the people doing it. everybody lois lerner paid administrative leave. i know it's hard to fire a democrat -- bureaucrat but it can be done, can to not. >> i think president obama needs to take responsibility and needs to tell the truth. in recent weeks there are at least two instances of senior officials for the administration telling flat out falsehoods. number one the white house press secretary said with regard to benghazi that neither the white house nor the state department changed the talking points at all other than changing the word consulate. now, within a few days abc news reported that that wasn't true that they changed it a dozen times.

they deleted al qaeda and references to terrorism. tawas simply objectively false statement made by the president of the united states and the american people. likewise, the went before congress and said they everywhere not targeting groups based on affiliation. the deputy secretary of the treasury department, a political appointee had been told that wasn't true. and, you know, that. >> megyn: now trust is eroding among the american people. i want to ask you about that. because you made headlines recently by saying do you not trust the republicans or the democrats on the subject of the debt and the debt ceiling and now your critics have come out and said look at this guy. he is a, quote: many of compromise. all he wants is all out political war because he hates both parties. your response. >> look, i think we need to fix the problem. so mani' of the american people are frustrated with leaders in both parties. in the last four and a half years our national debt has

gone from $10 trillion to near live $17 trillion. we're bankrupting the country. we are bankrupting our kids and grand kids. ened a i think the american people are frustrated with political bickering in washington. excuses, no excuses. fix the problem. issue arose because harry reid in the senate is trying to raise the 50 votes instead of 60 which means he could dig the depth whole deeper national credit card while diagnose nothing to fix the problem to get our me examining g.ing to stop the con structure tending plbs. i think we need to stop playing politics. roll up our sleeves and fix the problem that's what the voters expect. >> megyn: there has been back lark by some particular lion the left. you are a bomb thrower. too far right. they don't see you as the future of the republican party because they think you are too far to the

right and win, win other moderates. >> folks are entitled to throw what are rock our insults they want. from mile end i have no intention of reciprocating. i will not response in kind. what aim i'm going to stay focused on is doing the job person people want and expect. some say the most terribly conservative people on listen, i'm work to defend common sense murvel prince primary voters principles living within your need. >> bought of washington, d.c., is basic common sense. don't bankrupt the country. don't bankrupt your household. don't live on what you don't have. don't put so many regulations on the economy that you kill small businesses and jobs. that doesn't make sense. >> megyn: i have 20 seconds. are you going it run for the next step, sir. >> 100% of my focus is the u.s. senate.

>> megyn: never get a straight answer. i have to ask. senator, it's great to see you. >> thank you. >> megyn: growing list of major media outlets refusing to meet with the attorney general over the doj's spying on reporters. is that the right call? [ male announcer ] citibank's app for ipad

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helps him deposit his checks. jay also like it when mother nature helps him wash his car. mother nature's cool like that. citibank mobile check deposit. easier banking. standard at citibank. charges because he fired a warning shot to scare away a felon trying to break into his home. isn't that what biden told us to do: trace gallagher live in our west coast bureau with more. go out with your shotgun and fire a warning shot. >> fire a warning shot. 1 111:30 at night is he home and hears a noise at

the back door. walks to the back door sure enough goes and gets his ar 15 rifle he tells the suspect he is going to fire one warning shot. one warning shot only meaning the next would be for real. he fires a shot into the floor and suspect, a man named jonathan fled. well, sure enough the police who were in the area for a different reason, that's the suspect right there, arrested him on outstanding warrants for burglary and assault, no less. well, then, the police go back to thompson's house and they tell him that he was not justified at firing his weapon. listen to police. >> there was not a justifiable shooting. you can't shoot at somebody that's walking away after causing a disturbance in your backyard. your life or somebody else's life has to be threatened. >> thompson says he wasn't walking away until he fired the shot saying, quote: you break into someone's

house there will be consequences but cory thompson was charged with unlawful use of a weapon. menacing, endangerment and his gun was taken away because, yes, it was used in the commission of a crime. megyn? >> megyn: trace, thank you. a growing number of media outlets refusing to attend attorney general eric holder's sitdown. the discussion was supposed to be about his department's surveillance of reporters. but he wanted it to be off the record and now these major news outlets have said no. we'll ask a panel of seasoned next. what this means to the growing pressure for attorney general eric holder to resign. plus, he was shot and killed by the fbi during an interrogation about his ties to one of the boston bombing suspects. now his father says he has proof that his son was murdered execution style by the feds trace takes a look

at the evidence and kelly's court debates whether cair, which is now alleging that this was excessive force has a point. >> at the moment, i want justice. and i want there to be an investigation so that these people are tried under american law. these are not fbi agents but bandits. i cannot call them anything else and they must be tried.

>> megyn: back to top story as we watch a growing number of news organizations refusing to aanswered it meeting with the attorney general about the doj spying on reporters is that the right call? joining me now is judy miller, author and fox news contributor. reuben. nina easton. columnist for "fortune magazine" and fox news contributor. now the list of those who have said no is growing. it includes fox news. although abc news said they would attend but i will start with you on this, judy. is it the right call for these news organizations to say no, not unless it's on the record? >> i think it's definitely the right call at this point, megyn. i mean, to have an attorney general who has at the very least if we were going to be charitable here made some contradictory statements about about what he would and would not tolerate and authorize and to go on background and oh, i will tell you what i

really tried to do and why i tried to do it and to have the news organizations that were targeted because the first two news organizations that announced they weren't going, a.p. and then fox news not even to be able to report that because they have agreed to ground rules that would prevent them from doing that? that's just unacceptable. at this point, eric holder has to speak the truth to the american people and first and foremost to the news media. >> megyn: jen, i know you say in your column today that they are trying to lure us the media into a spin session here i think so. the stated purpose of this meeting was to discuss ground rules. if he wants to discuss new ground rules or old ground rules he violated. he can call up the security council for the lawyers. they can hash this out. this is nothing but appear attempt to number one keep his job as you have note

the number are calling for his heads. to put a thumb on the kind of coverage he is getting. what if he says something very news worthy. what if he confesses that he says something in the affidavit for james rosen that wasn't true? what if he says well, yeah, i shouldn't is said that to business manage it. giving the a.p. and the "times" the scoop because they can report on it. >> megyn: bureau chief wouldn't be able to comment on it about reporting on this matter. that was one of the things the "new york times" object say they are not showing up? whether it's on or off the record, there is inherent weirdness to eric holder coming to the media and saying i spied on you, please help me figure out a way to protect you from me. >> his ham handed apology tour is the way i would put it. he -- this idea that you

have intelling -- you believe in integrity of the media and you ask top editors to come to this off the record spin session. it's not unlike how he describes learning about what he calls the magnitude of the whole situation. he was sitting at his breakfast table two weeks ago reading about this in the "the washington post" when the "the washington post" broke the rosen story and then he suddenly feels this sense of remorse and seems to understand the magnitude of this search warrant that he signed off on. now, let's step back, this is a search warrant that not only described james rosen as a coconspirator, which is a rare enough stretch of the espionage act in and of itself. but it cites his reporting technique suggesting they are criminal acts. and then now we also know there is new reporting that shows that the justice department went judge searching to make sure that rosen didn't know about the break-ins to his private email to keep it secret.

because the first two judges turned it down. if given all that, how could you not know what you were doing or the magnitude of what you were doing? that's the question to ask. >> megyn: coshocton flakes of regret. reading the "the washington post" and reading your paper, jennifer. it finally dawned on him maybe this wasn't the right thing. yet you see brad wood house of the democratic national committee tweeting out a message saying these news organizations have decided not to meet with holder. kind of forefits your right to gripe. your thoughts about that? >> yeah. if things could have gotten worse they did with that. basically, he was trying to bully the media isn't that a common pattern in this administration to showing up and saying somehow that the "new york times" couldn't complain because they didn't agree though these crazy ground rules. well, that, of all people, brought the aclu into the fight. castigating the obama administration. so would you -- we now have very strange situation with

the jennifer and the aclu and the "new york times" are all on the same page. i don't think the administration is doing something right if all of those folks with very different views find their behavior objectionable. >> megyn: that's what i said earlier. it's not every day that we at fox news channel find ourselves shoulder to shoulder with the huffington post. that's where we are today on this matter. judy, we talked earlier on the program when people are asked what is the biggest scandal facing the government right now, they put this one third. they put irs first, benghazi second and this one third. but for the politicians, in washington, who are battling this, loading -- losing the press from eric holder big deal. might rank those differently. >> absolutely. when you have lost the press, especially a press that has been so suspect pine and so supportive of this administration that bent overbackwards to give them every break then you are really really in trouble. which is why we are having this extraordinary attempt to kind of set the record straight on an

off-the-record basis. >> megyn: there is no question this is the charm offensive. >> yes. >> megyn: let's say eric holder comes back later today and says we'll do it on the record. i can't imagine going to meet with three organizations that have said yes, right? like politico, abc news and one other. is he going to go forward with just that meeting or will he be forced to say okay we will do something on the record and then does that change things? >> well, it changes things. if he does it on the record, then reporters will come and they will ask tough questions. going back to your question about the polls and -- people see the irs scandal and appreciate it because they understand what it can be like, the powerlessness of being attacked by the irs. the benghazi scandal, they understand the national security concerns. they don't necessarily aren't going to jump to the side of reporters. but this is a case where reporters and the press aren't always held in the highest standards. actually are in a position to ask tough questions of

an official who seems toe changing his story on a very important situation here. this is a case where the press should be let, in should be asking those tough questions right alongside members of congress. >> megyn: let me ask you three as experienced members of the press, just quickly down the line whether you think eric holder survives this scandal, these scandals that are now upon him? judy? >> i think it's too early to tell. >> megyn: jen? >> i think by the end of the summer he may decide to spend more time with his family. >> megyn: nina? >> i think they let the winds blow for a while and when they are subsided a little bit then he resigns. >> megyn: we have to question is it worth it to have this distraction and investigations ongoing as we head into what will soon be an election year again. >> yeah. >> megyn: ladies, thank you all so much. >> thank you. thank you. >> megyn: up next, allegations of excessive force of the shooting death of the man connected in the boston bombing deaths. shot seven times while

allegedly unarmed. kelly's court takes up that case next. i don't make any decisions about who to hire without going to angie's list first. you'll find reviews on home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. with angie's list, i know who to call, and i know the results will be fantastic.

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>> megyn: fox news alert. as we get new information on the mysterious death of a man no believed to have ties to one of the boston bombing suspects. the fbi traveled to florida to question this man not about the boston bombing but about a triple murder that happened in massachusetts back in 2011. there is growing evidence that one of the boston bothng suspects, and

of them may have had a role in those triple murders and that this man, shown here, may have helped. but as an fbi agent was questioning him, something happened. and now this 27-year-old suspect is dead. and the fbi today stands accused of using excessive force. >> trace gallagher has the latest divments, trace? >> it's important to know he that that man you mentioned was inside his apartment agents from boston slash throats on drug deal gone bad. he went off. grabbed a sword or long pipe and went after agents. that's when they opened fire and killed him. the "the washington post" among others reports that he was unarmed of the fbi now disputes that the family eastbound bra him

todashev says he was shot seven times it and they have the pictures to prove it including one in the back of the head. he was executed, they say. and they want a full investigation. listen. >> at the moment, i want justice. and i want there to be an investigation so that these people are tried under american law. these are not fbi agents but bandits. i cannot call them anything else and they must be tried council on american islamic relations or cair is also asking for a full investigation. he was involved in mixed martial arts and that's where he met tamerlan tsarnaev in the boston area. he was arrested in both boston and orlando for beating up strangers. and the fbi, megyn, says they are investigating this internally. >> megyn: all right, trace. thank you. >> kelly's court in session. joining me now to discuss it is a fox news legal analyst and former prosecutor now defense

attorney. so now we have got conflicting reports now. a cup perform law enforcement sources unnamed have spoken out to the media saying the guy was unarmed and you have got the father saying he was shot seven times. claiming one of them was in the back of the head. that's what we're getting from the father take it for what it is worth. nau the fbi pushing back saying that's not true. he was armed. we don't know what the truth is. if this was an unarmed man, mark, shot seven times by fbi agent. where are we? >> well, we're having more questions than we have answers. first, we have that he had a knife, i'm reading. it's an open and shut case he had a knife. no, no, it's a long weapon like a sword. then other agents in the room allegedly said he was unarmed. then there is one where he was unarmed but he lunged for the officer's weapon. and then the most troubling of all, all the law enforcement officers who are giving these accounts they weren't even in the room. they were outside and it was a one-on-one fbi agent with him and who knows what is he going to say.

so, again, i'm not saying anything went wrong, what happened? >> megyn: something stinks. something is not right here mercedes. >> here is from his perspective. number one, they have got great training as law enforcement. number two, they can use deadly force if he believes he is an imminent threat of harm. obviously this is a split second decision. i can't imagine that an fbi agent would go in and just simply execute an individual. they are having a discussion. there are other armed agents outside. something happened in that room. but, frankly, this is a trained officer that knows not to use deadly force unless he believes is he in imminent harm. >> megyn: no question they didn't have a motive to kill a guy who was reportedly about to confess to his role and tamerlan tsarnaev's alleged role in a triple homicide. that's what the report says he was about to confess. there must have been something that set off altercation in that room, mark.

does that answer the question about whether excessive force was used? >> let's make it simple. no, it does not. look, to mercedes argument, if he was there because they are investigating a possession of marijuana case that's one thing. we know this guy was potentially a dangerous fellow. that works well for the fbi. let me just ask. if this was a family member of any one of us god forbid and we want closure and want to know how do d. this happen you? look at the different accounts wait a second, none of these make sense. which one was it? >> it should be far more consistent. and the question is though mercedes, specking of the number of gunshots, is that relevant here? >> certainly. and the one in the back his head as well. all the ballistics show he was shot in the front and looks like he was lungeing forward and experts are going to be involved in the case of investigating it. clearly an issue that favors the fbi. so, he is lunging at him. i shot him. but if the ballistics show that he has a shot in the

back of the head. that gets a little more murky. >> that's problematic. you also get to look what's in the fbi agent's head. the fbi agent knows is he interviewings this guy for a brutal, investigating a brutal, brutal triple murder that took place in 2011. before i get to that go ahead and the agent's state of mind, mark, i want to show threw is an interview with the now dead suspect, this guy ibrahim todashev with his wife about that old triple murder. >> this is absolutely not true. >> apparently your husband was admitting to involvement in a triple murder on the 10th anniversary of 9/11. did you know about that and what do you think about that? >> i never heard about it the only thing -- he was murdered. before -- when there was questions i was questioned at well by fbi back in atlanta and never have any questions about the murder. >> megyn: all right. so she says it's not true. the fbi agents think it is true. and that changes the way he perceives his suspect,

mark. >> yeah, i don't think it changes it all that much. if he thinks that he is probably someone who committed a murder, for me that's good enough. he things he committed murder, that's enough for me. but the question becomes, what specifically happened -- reasonably fear -- >> colors everything. >> last question --:j#/ last w. >> mercedes they're not showing any knife wounds on the fbi agent, and saying his injuries are cuts and abrasion. >> some sort of struggle happened and if he did come after him withç a stick, a pol, and also he was a mixed martial arts, a fighter as well, the decedent. so this all goes in favor of the fbi, and if they believed this individual killed these three individual, it is good in their favor. >> now they want an outside independent investigation, but the fbi investigateses itself

all the time to see whether it's excessive use of force. we'll be right back. whether i'm telling people about how they could save money on car insurance with geico... yeah, a little bit more of the lime green love yeah... or letting them know they can reach geico 24/7 using the latest technology. go on, slather it all over. don't hold back, go on... it's these high-definition televisions, i'll tell ya, they show every wrinkle. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

>> megyn: an international fish fight worth billions of dollars shaping up in the arctic ocean. dan has the story in seattle. reporter: we are talking about a brand new ocean that opens up everyúsémmer and where there's water there will be fish to catch and competition. so diplomats from the five nations that rein the pole are trying to hammer out found rulesful right now it's the wild west and we have seen this with russia staking claim to oil and gas. and environmentals are pushing

for a ban on all fishing until scientists, determine how many fish are there and whether a fishery can be sustained. >> right now there aren't any rules. never matteredç before in human history because it's been frozen. as it starts to melt there's access. >> reporter: it's not a big priority for the commercial fishing industry but that could change. they're always looking for the next great fishing hole.çç researchers say it could mean big money, especially for the seattle area, which is home base for the alaska fleet. there's evidence that deadliest catches is slowly moving north. >> the biggest crab resource in the bering sea by far is snow crab and that occurs all the way up to the u.s.-russian line, and that would be theç resource th, from a temperatureç standpoint, is probably most adaptive toç move up into the arcticç regio. >> and a big goal of these arctic fishing talks isç to kep

the fish-hungry nations of congratulations, japan, and scioscia from putting their nets into the water. >> we're keeping an eye on the weather in the midwest. live pictures from oklahoma where tornado warnings have been issued. the latest traffic next. [ male announcer ] this is kevin.

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for for conspiraciry theirist. some folks see a rat or rodent in that field of rocks in the middle. the rover can only take pictures so no one at nasa can say whether they smell a rat here. [laughter] >> here's shepard. >> shepard: newsç begins anew. an american war hero is missing in syria. the family speaks to fox news. their emotional help for plea comes as the assyrian president makes claims about a weapon. and a another letter with ricin may have made its way to the white house, or on its way. the fbi is looking into it one day after we learned somebody sent tainted letters to the new york city mayor and hisç pro gn control groups. the mom from arizona speaking out from a prison in mexico after police say