containing a political firestorm over the d.o.j. spying on reporters. the question now will these be enough to help the attorney general keep his job. welcome to america live i'm megyn kelly. the doj met with the the print media and discussed ways the department handles the investigations that may involve reporters. the controversy first erupted with reports that the doj spied on the associated press for months without its knowledge and then we learned after eric holder told us how rare it was that they had done it to fox news correspondent james rosen. he said he is committed to changing justice department guidelines, the guidelines he used to spy on them in the first place but demands that journalists keep most of what was said confidential. he wanted the meetings to be off-the-record and only gave authority for them to reveal bits and pieces of the meeting.

all this only adding fuel to the firestorm of criticism directed mr. holder's way. kris stirewald. this is supposed to sway the members of the need media and now they are going to change the guidelines. guidelines just guide you. you can go with them or not go with them. when you are are the attorney general of the united states you don't need to use the guideline that says this is when you can go after a reporter to say i'm mandated to go after a reporter. he and his deppies affirmatively made a decision to go after james rosen and call him a coconspirator and now we have to go through the rouse where we pretend like if we change the guidelines the folks in the justice department may see things totally different now. make that is too much opinion from me but it is a rouse.

you tell me, eric holder didn't have to follow the guidelines and call james rosen a coconspirator but it he didn't. >> i'm noting a little skepticism in your comments. >> tiny. >> just a skosh. who is making the decision. interpreting the guidelines. what is their attitude. how did they feel about this? that is why you saw the leaks about the corn flakes of regret the attorney general had where he realized the error of his ways and that he was seized by conscience and then reporting in the new york times saying he wasn't really regretful but did think about it more and he was sorry and it is like that. it is hard and it is complicated. what this all adds up to is he is playing for time. he is playing for time. he is playing for time with the print media. the television media. the internet. all of that stuff. playing for sometime.

show that he is checking the box. showed the president you told me to talk to the press so we are having the very public though privately conducted meetings with the press and talking with them he about their concerns because this is part of a strategy by the president and administration which is go slow and let the investigations bog down and let people lose interest and we can sort of slide away from this. >> megyn: have you ever caught somebody cheating on you? >> no. >> megyn: i have and i'm sure a lot of the viewers have. not my husband, of course. another relationship. >> i was going to say this could turn ugly fast. >> megyn: no, no, no. let me tell you what the perm does when they are are caught. they -- what the person does when they are caught. they apologize. they regret is and sorry and not going to do it again. that is what they do when they are caught, all right? it tends to be that you did it the one time, all right. so normally you don't take that -- usually the relationship ends when that has

been discovered, okay. >> right. >> megyn: i'm not saying it is exactly the same. but his statements of regret, the corn flakes of regret which by the way thanks to you is trending on twitter, that is stirewald's term. he read the washington post article. that is when it downed on him that he was regretful. the regret is all well and good when it comes after the fact when you have been caught. what has he given us right now other than oh, i'm pro a media shield law to shield you from me and maybe we will change the guidelines that had no effect on me in the first place to believe that he is not going to go after other reporters and part two of my question did he come clean on how many of us he has done this to, what are the names and how many times? >> probably not. and if he did we are not allowed to know that because the journalists who did go not including fox news agreed to the restrictions that the

attorney general was seeking about what could be disclosed from there on out. presumably, it is all secret and all confidential and we can't tell you anything that is ongoing investigations under seal so we are not at liberty to say anything. to your point and the point earlier this week with the house judiciary committee going after him on potential perjury this could act as a pry bar to force other things out. access to case files. access to find out other things they could then draw out into the public space. >> megyn: do you think this is going to change the media coverage? the media that showed up and listened to the charm offensive that this is going to change their position on the perjury case against them? >> if you were already sympathetic to h his arguments and the president's arguments you might be that way.

i don't know. but here is what i do know. the largest wire service, the most important wire service in the country is not backing down on this at all. the ap is saying that the probe, the record snatch was even broader than they had previously thought, that it was worse than they had thought so i think what we will see he instead is probably a long burn on this one. >> megyn: something else that i learned in my unfortunate prior legislative circumstances and that is the only way to ever is consider going forward is a complete honest recitation of facts and open dialogue on any subject on a go-forward basis and i don't know that we are there with eric holder. i don't know in the press union with eric holder we are there right now. >> doug, wherever you are you have my sympathies, man. >> this is not about doug. my man is a good man. >> he is a good man. >> megyn: chris, thank you. >> all right the.

>> megyn: we are tracking new concerns that the irs scandal may be widening as the list of suspected victims grows. the chairman for the house small business committee writing to the acting irs commissioner demanding to know whether the agency also targeted small businesses and not just the tea party and pro small government groups. this is a public interest law firm is now coming forward. a separate incident claiming that the irs singled out prolife groups. now, small business questions. we know about the tea parties. we talked yesterday about the pro israel groups that got the extra scrutiny and now today the prolife groups. this paints a bigger picture about what was going on at the irs and what may still be going on in some cases than we knew before. coming up an attorney with the thomas moore society joins us with new details about what the agency demanded from the prolife groups. we have some of the letters. you will not believe. and that guy steve miller who

looks like elliott gould suggested this wasn't happening. now, we have got the lette inquiring into their prayers outside of planned parenthood clinics and so on. we will talk about that in moments. we will also speak with a former head of the irs who led the agency for four years under president bush. he joins us in the the next hour and he will explain why when was there for four years he only visited the white house one time on official business, not 157. also following a developing story up in space today as planet earth is now just a couple of hours away from a close encounter with an asteroid as long as the golden gate bridge and big enough that it has its own moon. mass is i is a releasing the -- nasa releasing this photo. that is the asteroid with its

moon. the caption reads "designated a potentially hazardous asteroid." trace gallagher live for now. >> nothing scarier than a red dot surrounding a white dot. imagine being big enough to carry our own moon along for the ride. this is 1.7 miles long. so picture if you will 200 747s lined up and stacked on top of each her heading toward earth. it is moving at 18,000 miles per hour. a definite dinosaur killer type. meaning if it h hit the earth it would destroy everything within 200 miles, damage everything within 1,000 miles and kick up enough dust to block the sun for years so we would all be dead. nasa says it will -- you have the earth and satellite and skims by the earth in about three hours.

the skim is 3.6 million miles away by astro lodg logical stas that is in the neighborhood. scientists using high powered telescopes can look at its moon and check out the surface features and even check the rotation. listen. >> it really brings out these are their own little worlds and they all are very interested -- very interesting in the shape, size and spin di dynamics and e close approach will show us what this is like. all important data to collect for potential future exploration. >> but not just future exploration. this gives scientists a chance to really some day save the world by building a space ship or satellite to deflect the asteroids because we live in kind of a cosmic shooting gallery. all of the craters on earth and the moon weren't created by

chickenpox. we were pelted by rocks for billions of years and all it takes is one big one and boom there you go. 4:59 eastern is the closest point. have to have a high powered telescope. we didn't order the music by the way. >> megyn: i like it. >> kind of nice. you feel like james t. kirk. the music is there. >> megyn: another one of those situations. happens at 4:59 p.m. we will wait to see whether the five is broadcast live. see whether our friends make it. >> that's right. >> megyn: and stay tuned. all right, trace, thanks. >> sure. >> megyn: in moments, see the new you evidence coming to light that the targeting uncovered at the irs went way beyond groups flying a tea party flag. right after the break we will speak to the laur lawyer for a religious group challenged about what sort of prayers they were resiting and what messages

were on the protest signs before the irs decided whether or not they would get tax exempt status. a number of women becoming the primary wage earners in the families. some folks suggesting this could be the downfall of society. doff the men making the -- two of the men making the argument join me. this should be interesting. >> you are seeing i think systemically larger than the political stories we follow every day something going terribly wrong in american society. >> biology and the natural world the roles of a male and female in society and other animals the male typically is the dominant role. [ male announcer ] this is kevin.

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>> megyn: as a public interest

law firm comes forward claiming that prolife groups were also subjected to extra scrutiny from the irs. a question that came up during those contentious irs hearings a couple of weeks back. you should know they have been complaining about this for years long before we learned about the irs targeting tea party groups. chicagos it thomas moore society represents a prolife group in iowa that claims it was singled out when it applied for tax exempt status. sound familiar? it says agents not only stonewalled the application but demanded to know things like the content of the membe membe. the group that was applying. and they claim that the irs tried to forbid members from picketing outside of abortion clinics. can they do that? peter is an attorney for the thomas moore society. i'm looking at letter letters u and press releases from you guys dated april 2011. long before we knew about the irs targeting conservatives you were saying your group that

they are targeting prolife groups with extra requests and inappropriate requests and people had their doubts and yet now we find out indeed, they were doing it to whole groups of people, conservative leaning groups, limited government groups and so on. and is that what happened inor case? >> absolutely. we had had what we thought were isolated incidents until the most recent scandal broke and once that happened we dug through our files and said look, we helped multiple organizations over the past few years during the obama administration to fight off the irs from these sort is of unconstitutional inquiries and inappropriate at any level based on the irs rules. >> megyn: you believe this started happening as early as twine and may have been going on longer than we know with regard to the tea party groups that started in 2010. said they requested content

prayer hes at a planned parenthood facility. is that true? >> this he asked specifically in the document about the activities at the prayer meetings of clients in iowa and also is to know the content of the signs they would hold outside of planned parenthood. if your concern is keeping the charities from doing political work what do you care what they do at prayer meet hinges or outside of a planned parenthood? it is nonpolitical in terms of campaigning. it is perfectly appropriate for public charities. >> megyn: and they went on to ask whether one of the groups, christian voices for life whether they did education on both sides of the issues. what is that supposed to mean? is this what the christians are supposed to be doing now. we are prolife and we believe life begins at conception but you should know in evaluating our argument how the other side feels. >> would you ask the naacp if

they are going to see what the white supremacists do and present both sides of the issue? of course, not. they advocate for their position. the first amendment allows it. these are entirely inappropriate questions. fortunately for us we were able to fight off the irs in the case of these clients and even since this happened we had other people come to us who are in the midst of their irs processes and we are trying to help them as well. >> megyn: do you believe then that this -- yesterday we talked to a proisrael group that got this. that got this kind of treatment from the irs. and now the prolife groups saying we got this kind of treatment from the the irs. now, the tea party and other limited groups coming out and confirmed in their cases. are they related or totally different things? >> we can't help but think it is related. at some point you get enough smoking guns and there has to be tie. as well all of this happened after president obama took

office. we weren't having the troubles under the prior administrations. all of a is sudden it starts under the current administration. someone did something. at what level we are not sure. congress is investigating. >> megyn: who authorized it, who gave the go-ahead and who is taking the responsibility. here is an exchange that steven miller the now resigned acting irs commissioner gave to congress. listen to him on this issue. >> let me ask but you about ed by a letter receive paid prolife group. this one in iowa. it asks "please detail the content of the members of your organization's prayers. would this be an appropriate question to a an applicant, in the content of ones prayers? >> i can't speak to that either. >> you don't know whether or not that would be an appropriate question to ask the applicant. >> speaking outside of this case which i don't know anything about it would surprise me that that question was asked.

>> megyn: your thoughts? >> well, i want to thank congressman eric shoc for putting that it the commissioner. it needed to be asked. on a day when every answer seemed like i don't know, i can't comment. wi-fi that wily got an answer that was inappropriate. is this inappropriate content across an agency that seemed to start right after the president took office how can you say that it is anything but some sort of orchestrated campaign. >> megyn: he said it would surprise him if that question is asked. that is the question is who is minding the shop at the irs and why are these things come is as surprises. to whom are not to the surprises and who orchestrated them to begin with. thanks for being here. all the best. our fox affiliate in cincinnati confirmed now that one of the staffers who sent threatening letters to groups seeking tax exempt status the conservative groups was promoted.

was promoted not long ago. the president promised there would be accountability. these guys are getting promoted. we'll have that story ahead. plus, is there a problem with the fact that more american women are becoming the primary wage earners? don't miss this! humans. we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back, offering exclusive products like optional better car replacement, where if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call... and ask an insurance expert about all our benefits today, like our 24/7 support and service, because at liberty mutual insurance, we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, so we do everything we can to be there for them when they need us. plus, you could save hundreds when you switch,

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>> megyn: a ground breaking legal case drawing huge attention. prosecutors in california charging the owner of four pitbulls with murder after the pack of dogs attacked and killed a 63-year-old woman while she was jogging. the victim was is bitten up to 200 times. some are questioning whether murder is an appropriate charge here. trace gallagher has the latest live from the west coast newsroom. trees? >> reporter: a horrifying attack that happened 60 miles northeast of los angeles. pamela devitt is her name,

jogged the route all the time. when she ran by the dogs chased her and attacked her. we are talking about four pitbulls. witnesses say she was bitten hundreds of times over several minutes. a woman actually driving by tried to honk to get the dogs to stop and finally when a deputy showed up there was still one dog attacking her. the deputy scared it away butoe deputy and he pulled out his gun and shot at it and missed. the owner of the dogs, 29-year-old alex jackson was arrested and released pending dna results but then the eight dogs were taken away and four of the six pitbulls were later found to have the victim's blood on their muzzles. jackson was rearrested and charged with murder because this is not the first incident. listen. >> this is not just about the attack and killing somebody, we have at least three or four cases of people coming forward and saying the dogs have attacked me or my livestock

before. >> reporter: the neighbors complained and complained. authorities say this is the first dog mauling case in california since 2001 when this woman and her husband were convicted after their dog in san francisco killed a neighbor. the husband of the victim who got mauled by the pitbulls this time says he doesn't blame the dogs, he blames the owner. here he is. >> just thinking of how my wife life ended is disturbing and it will always be disturbing. i try to get the thoughts out of my mind. but such a ra ravaging attack s disturbing. >> reporter: nobody is quite sure how the pitbulls got out but the owner is facing life in prison. >> megyn: thank you. a major leak in a high profile murder trial giving us the first look inside the actual crime scene where olympic star

oscar pistorius is accused of gilling his model girlfriend. lou dobbs and eric erickson are here live next. >> when we are watching society dissolve around us what do you think? >> you are seeing i think systemically larger than the political stories we follow every day something going wrong in society. >> the biology and natural roles of males and females the male typically is the dominant role. yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one.

>> megyn: fox news alert out of arizona. moments ago the mother who has been charged or who is facing charges was just released from prison in mexico. and she began the last leg of her journey home leaving a hotel in nogales arizona and headed home to the town of goodyear arizona. she spent days bouncing around mexico's notorious prison system after she was wrongfully accused of trying to smuggle 12-pounds the pot into the united states simply because it was placed under the bus seat by someone. the case drew national attention he and she was thankfully released late last night. and now additional fallout from a brand new report finding the dynamics of the american family are are changing.

according to the research center, mothers are now the sole or primary provider in four out of ten households that include children under the age of 18. back in 1960 it was just 11%. the report sparking a debate on lou dobbs tonight on fbn over whether this spells problems for families. listen. >> when we are watching sew he sighty dissolve around us, juan, what do you think? >> you are seeing, i think systemically larger than the political stories that we follow every day something going terribly wrong in american society and it is hurting our children. >> lou, i'm so used to liberals telling conservatives they are antiscience but you this is liberals who defend this and say it is not a bad thing are very antiscience. look at biology and the natural world and the roles of a male and a female in society and other animals the male typically is the dominant role. the female is not antithesis or

competing. it is a complementary role. >> it could undermine our social order, bottom line. >> joining me, lou dobbs, host of lou dobbs tonight on the fox business network and eric erickson, editor of red state .com and a fox news contributor. thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> i will i will start with you. youeric, what makes you dominant and me sub missive and who makes you dominant in chief. >> it doesn't have anything to do with sub missive per se and it was poor early constructed how i said it. look throughout society and other animals the male tends to be the protector and dominant one in that regard and we have gotten to a point in the country where you have a lot of feminists who think that the male and female roles are are completely interchangeable and there is no need for a man to support his family. you have women becoming single mothers not by their choice.

a lot of people thinking it is a lifestyle choice. this isn't healthful for society. no one is saying women can't be a bread winner or even the primary bread winner. when we forced ourselves to the point where they have to be. >> megyn: that is not what you you have been saying for the last couple of days. you got in trouble on lou's show. you made the comments and then posted a blog at red state trying to expand on the comments. let's put a moment aside the issue of single parents because that is diceyer and there is more data to support the notion that children in singlele parent families don't fare as often. you took it well beyond that and this is from the blog. in modern society we are not supposed to point out two parent in a heterosexual nuclear household have a better chance at long-term success in

life than others. we are supposed to applaud feminists who teach women they can have a all and women can fulfill the roles of husbands and fathers just as men do. there is data in a scientific community to suggest that children of homosexual couples who are happily married and are good parents they are no worse than children of heterosexual couples and there is plenty of data to suggest that children of working moms as opposed to stay at home moms wind up just as healthy and able to thrive in society than the children of stay at home mothers. >> it has been so self-deselective. the most comprehensive study of gay couples, the socialologyist noted that many of the studies are of high income lesbian families. higher income families you are right. working mothers is high incomer

that children there isn't a big difference. the middle class where the issues are bubbling up when you have a mom who is working 12 hours a day and a dad who is working 12 hours a day and they come home and also trying to be good parents you can't have it all and they are making compromises. i'm not judging them and no one should it is just the reality. >> megyn: you are judging them. >> i'm not. >> megyn: you are. you come out clearly and say women who choose to work instead of staying at home to "are inurture the children "the making a worse choice. >> i view it as a statement of fact when you have a mom working full time and coming home to be a full-time mom as well, it is very difficult and three quarters of the public agree. >> megyn: just because you have people that agree with you doesn't mean that it is not offensive. i know in your blog you talk about how you believe it is

feminists and i don't know what the word is, some sort of liberal eco liberal. what did you call them? >> emo liberal whining about. >> megyn: i don't think i'm he an emow liberal. i was offended by the piece one the less. i think you are judging people. could meow sound like somebody who is judging but wants to come out and said i'm not i'm not i'm not and let me judge, judge, judge. science and facts, facts, facts. this is a list of study saying your science a wrong and your facts are on. i want to get lou in. lou, do you agree with this? you sounded like you agreed with him when was on the show. >> let me he give you the sound of the agreement and that is this. what i would acknowledge immediately is that eric is wrong about nature itself. the male is not always dominant whether it be in a pride of lions or in a -- the queen bee and her hive and workers.

but when the sarangeddy is on fire it is time to look at what the impact is. a war on drugs we are losing. an economy in which jobs are not being replaced equal pay or near equal pay with the replacement job. we are watching class extra dictional jobs in construction and manufacturing that have been male dominated in the sense that they are the -- they were the predominant number of workers disappearing. we are looking at a society which change is the absolute hallmark and for any one in any discussion in any debate on what is happening with women in the work place to ignore the fact that we have marriages breaking up, shattering in the society and we know that that reduces by at least a -- >> megyn: why are you attributing that to women in

the workforce? >> excuse me, let me finish what i'm saying if i may, o dominant one. >> megyn: excuse me. >> the fact is that three times as many people in a single family -- in a single parent household are likely to end up with great psychological illness, with severe psychological illness. >> megyn: we are putting to the side single parent familys. >> you can't put that to the side. >> megyn: because we had that debate and that is not what this debate was about. the place i took this debate. >> that is exactly what it is about. >> megyn: it is not. eric took it, let me go back to eric. >> is he more fun than me? >> megyn: you are getting out-of-bounds on the safer territory. this is from your blog. according to eric erickson and i quote the truth kids will most likely do best in households where they have a mom at home nurturing them while dad is out bringing home the bacon. children whose mothers work are

no more likely to have any more problems than kids moss mothers stay at home. they studied 69 studies over 59 years of research. our you facts and science, eric is not supported by the american psychological association and the american academy of pediatrics. columbia university stud. university of north carolina study. why are we supposed to take your word for it, eric erickson's science instead of all of experts? >> i think the experts can be as politically motivated as any one else because it plays into a particular current notion it is okay. and second, i do think when you have three quarters of the public willing to recognize that the increase in moms as bread winners makes it harder to raise kids i think most people understand moms typically are more nurturing than dads. not always and not in all cases and painting broad brush strokes i admit. >> megyn: in this country in the '50s and '60s there were huge numbers of people that believed that the children

of interracial marriages were biologically inferior and that is why it was illegal for blacks and whites to mary in some states in the country up until 1967 and they said it was science and fact if you were the child of a black father and white mother or vice versa you were inferior and not set up for success. tell that to barack obama. >> i completely agree with you on that. i do think there absolutely is something to kids having a stable home life. i'm not saying mom can't work and dads should be the only ones that work. >> megyn: what is unstable about a working mother and nurturing moving stay at home father? >> if it works for you. most people need to realize they work on an individual case but you in generalities i do think having the mom who is the nurturing one at home when kids are little. my wife worked when my child was little. i'm not judging her for that. it is a choice. >> megyn: you are denigrating

the choices made by others. >> i'm not. >> megyn: let me get back to lou and take it away from the single parent thing. >> i made your life harder, lou, i'm sorry. >> megyn: i'm trying to ask lou to weigh in on your much more controversial statements about loving families and both parents present and your notion it damaging to have the mother as primary wage earner. he give you the last word. >> i won't take up his argument. he has done well or the best he can against your views. the reason it is important to look at the impact of single parent households and not take away from the discussion but really add to it. boys, males are far more impacted by the disruption that surrounds a single parent household and the result is in part what we are seeing in society is they age and fail to be entering law school, going to get through high school for crying out loud. it is very important to keep that in the discussion, in the debate.

>> megyn: i got it. >> and meanwhile god bless you and my wife and my daughters, i think i came out of this all right. >> megyn: you guys are stand up guys for coming on. thank you both for being here. we'll be right back. don't go away. [ female announcer ] doctors trust calcium plus vitamin d

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if you have an existing first mortgage, a reverse mortgage can pay that off and you can use the remaining money for anything. plus, you're not required to make any monthly mortgage payments, as long as you live in your home. and here's the best part. you still own your home. when you call one reverse mortgage now, a licensed expert will give you a free quote and they'll send you a free guide and dvd, with no obligation. quicken loans and one reverse mortgage are companies you can trust. call one reverse mortgage today to find out if you qualify and get your free quote. >> megyn: fox news alert. on one of the top stories today. we have been watching reports coming out of cincinnati that at least one of the people responsible for the controversy at the irs targeting conservative groups one of

these guys was recently promoted. ben swann is an anchor for fox 19 in cincinnati and investigating the story since the beginning. thanks for being here. we are told by barack obama that the folks who did this were going to be held responsible and yet as we get down to the nitty gritty who did the targeting, who was executing on the irs letters to the conservative groups, we are learning more about a man named steven siak? tell us. >> he is one of the agencies from the exempt organization da investigation that we uncovered and his name has shown up particularly in documents targeting the richmond tea party in virginia. what is interesting about him is that when we were able to access an irs direct torre we found that he was actually an exempt organization manager. not a le level agent. we have at least seven names and he is a manager.

the reports out today, though, about this indicate based on our reporting that seok has been recently promoted as recently as when the scandal broke and we are not sure that is the case. the directory does not give us a timeline when the promotions took place. he helped to target the richmond virginia tea party in 2012. between that date and now has that -- the advancement of his career happened within the time frame. that is what we are trying to figure out. >> megyn: i'm looking at january 9, 2012 signed by steven is seok exempt organizations specialist and now he is a supervisor. that was january of 2012. >> he is a supervisor. >> megyn: now, he is a supervisor. and you are not the only one doing the reporting on this, the washington examiner has the same report out that the man has been promoted. they contacted the cincinnati irs office who had no comment on why and when the man was promoted and they directed him to washington and washington refused to comment citing the

privacy act. the question is because you have done all of this reporting on the charts of people who actually did this. you are one of the few unlike the irs commissioner steven miller who wouldn't name names who is naming names. who on the chart that you guys have put together and i note cindy thomas at the top a name that doesn't get mention the often enough. >> almost never. >> megyn: who has been dealt with in any way? >> you can see cheerly a chain of command and this is where the problem is. stephen seok is one of the agents. cindy thomas is the program manager for all of the tax exempt organizations. there have been reports including in the recent law you suit saying that there are agents all over the country taking part in this. under the restructuring of the irs that happened this 1998 every tax exempt organization

specialist answers to sense national and that means they all answer to cindy thomas. >> megyn: i will hold you over because i want to pick it up with cindy thomas after the break. there is cindy and then there is lois and we will talk about that next. [ male announcer ] running out of steam? ♪ now you can give yourself a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle.

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>> megyn: vince vaughn is an anchor for fox 19 in cincinnati investigating the -- ben swann has been investigating this. is anybody looking to talk to cindy thomas and speak to her after lois lerner her boss took the fifth. >> we have been reporting about cindy thomas and yet she hasn't been called before congress. i talked to a congressman who said he took our reports to the members of the ways and means

committee and showed them the reports saying they need to call this woman up to testify. what the viewers have to understand is the way the irs system works if you have an application for a nonprofit group and it goes to the irs it has nine months or 270 days a decision has to be made to reject or approve it. if it doesn't happen every single month there is a system generated red flag that will pop up and sent all the way to cindy thomas' office. there are 300 groups targeted out of cincinnati at least. 18 months sitting in the system. some as long as three years which means at the minimum, 5,000 to 10,000 system again rated flags over the course of 2010 to 2012. >> megyn: so she knew. >> there is no question she knew. >> megyn: and a question about whether she came up with it. high enough to have been the orchestrater of the scheme or would have have to have gone higher? >> as recently as 2012 lois

lerner was signing off on cover letters going to the groups continuing to ask the tea party and conservative groups for the inappropriate information. we know that lois lerner was aware of it and cindy thomas is closely connected to lois lerner. in the chart they are separated by one position essentially. from the sources we had we heard they are very close and very tight and no way cindy thomas was doing all of this with the automated system flags being generated. no way that could happen. >> megyn: we need to hear from cindy thomas. up next, what doj is now saying directly about whether holder lied under oath.

>> megyn: fox news alert. the clock is tickle and with just hours left for the justice department to answer the first round of questions from the house judiciary committee. the department of justice is insisting on the record that mr. holder never lied under oath. brand new hour here of america live. welcome. i'm megyn kelly. attorney general holder testified on may 14 telling lawmakers he knew the justice department had secretly targeted the associated press but claiming in response to a question that he knew nothing, had never heard of nor been involved in potential prosecutions of member hes of the press. well, now we know that as he

gave that testimony he was aware of the fact that he had signed off on an fbi affidavit that specifically accused our own james rosen of being a criminal coconspirator are in a leak case and the question is now are the doj's denials going to stand up? joining me attorney with multiple cases before the u.s. supreme court and focuses on constitutional civil rights and civil litigation with the federal government. great to see you again. >> how are you? >> megyn: should mention a great lawyer at a fantastic firm called jones day where i used to practice. >> there you go. >> megyn: now, the doj weighed in on whether he lied when gave the testimony before congress and this is what they say. the attorney general testimony concerning the potential prosecution of a member of the press was accurate and consistent with the facts of that leak case because at no time have prosecutors sought approval to actually bring criminal charges against james rosen.

so they are saying because eric holder signs off on an fbi subpoena and then he says i never even heard of it. never been involved in it. never heard of it. nothing. they say it is consistent because he never brought charges. you thoughts? >> a clinton-like hair splitting defense that doesn't even work on its own terms. he didn't say he never heard of a prosecution. he said he never heard of a potential prosecution. and getting a search warran ses the first step you take when you are going to engage in a prosecution. they told the federal court that is the reason they needed this information. so theying to the court when they asked for the search warrant or they were not being honest with congress when attorney general holder said what he did. >> megyn: they talked in the fbi affidavit accusing rosen of

being a criminal coconspirator about his potential criminal liability. it wasn't just judge he is an aider and abetor and coconspirator but we are never going to charge him. it was he faces potential liability and they went on to say he is a flight risk. how can eric holder say because i never prosecuted him what i told congress is true totally true? >> the only way to get a search warrant against the media is if you say they have been involved in the commission of a crime. that is one of the exceptions to get a search warrant against the media and they were invoking that exception by saying rosen was involved in a crime. no way to now square the circle and say they didn't think he was involved in a crime and even if they exercise the prosecutorial discretion not to get involved that doesn't square up with attorney general holder's testimony he never heard of or had been involved in a potential prosecution.

>> megyn: this is the testimony before congress they are trying to figure out whether it was false or not. let's list. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press tore disclosure of material that is not something i have ever been involved in, h heard of or would think would be a wise policy. >> megyn: again the word potential. the potential prosecution. let me ask you this, mike. he says with regard to the potential prosecution of a member of the press for the disclosure of material. could he about be splitting hairs between well, in that leak case i was saying rosen was a criminal because he solicited information not because he went ahead and published it and disclosed it? >> solicited information that is like saying i would like you you to tell me anything that is going on to whales blowers but the crime is the -- to whistle blowers. the crime is the disclosure. has to be connected to the disclosure. we can parse is 16 different ways. two points. one is during iran contra they prosecuted a whole lot of

people in the regan administration for not being forthcoming with congress. a separate statute that says you can't mislead congress. elliott abrams for example got hung up even though he never told any mistruths to congress. the attorney general created an incredible conflict of interest for himself. >> megyn: good to be in that position. >> that is why we had an in dehe pendent council statute for a long time and has now gone away. put him in an awkward position which in other circumstances would lead the attorney general to get entirely out of the controversy where as the attorney general has been designated as the administration point man on relationships with the press and national security. >> megyn: he has taken heat for allegely misleading congress several times. if the fast and furious case testified he only found out about it a few weeks ago. and then submitted a letter to congress so inaccurate had to

be withdrawn under the deputy. and when was confirmed as attorney general he gave testimony about the mark rich pardon that was highly questionable to downplay whether he knew the facts and so on when the truth is he had been the one orchestrating the whole thing. a question about whether the past incidents play into the minds of those making the decisions here and whether are really relevant and who makes the decision about whether -- is it truly in the doj about's hands now or can congress do something if they think the chief law enforcement of if her is lied to them who makes the decision? >> at the end of the day it will go to the justice department. the congress can refer it to the u.s. attorney in the district of columbia but the justice department would have to make any decisions about criminal prosecution. i'm not arguing you should prosecute everybody who misleads congress as a matter of course. but i think we hold the attorney general of the united states to a some what higher standard. we don't allow him to get away with the kind of kni nitpicky

econpetitive vocations. i think this goes a lot more to attorney general holder's reputation and his fitness to serve as attorney general than worrying about the particulars of whether or not he ever gets prosecuted criminally. >> megyn: more about whether the american people believe he is a truthful man or not. whether we can trust the top law enforcement officer of this country. and i american you as -- and i mean you as somebody who worked as a federal prosecutor for years with the doj, how important is that? how important is it that we have trust in the top law enforcement officer? >> it is, of course, essential. we delegate to the attorney general and the justice department sensitive issues. most obviously for this scam protecting the rights of the american people. we hold them to a standard they have to be above the law and

got give any partisan advantage or mislead congress or members of the other political party. if you can't trust giving these people that much responsibility and not having any assurance they will carry it out in good faith is damaging to democracy. >> megyn: we had a couple of months here where the white house press secretary jay carney was caught red handed. i don't want to use the word lied but blatantly misleading the american people about what role the white house and state department had in the benghazi talking points. and then eric holder giving that testimony. and the irs after they testified they he never targeted conservative groups having to admit they did that for over 18 months. a sad state of affairs now mike. i got to go. give you the quick last word. >> not the way to handle a scandal. don't keep denying and covering up. bad politics on top of everything else. >> megyn: new developments in the growing irs scandal over the targeting of conservative

groups. three separate house committees will hold hearings next week where questions will, of course, come up on whether the irs targeted groups based on members' personal beliefs. comes as new evidence suggests that the irs is look a a much broader array of conservative groups and individuals than previously thought. just ahead i will be joined live by the form of head of the irs. he preceded doug shulman and led the agency for four years under george w. bush. mark everson with the latest on his take on the latest we learned today on the expansionive nature of the irs reviews and shulman visited the white house 157 times. this guy everson, one time. he is coming you up. fox news weather alert on the threat of new you severe storms in a part of the country still struggling to recover from a series of tornadoes. the video out of the town of broken arrow last night.

a tulsa, oklahoma suburb. the twister doing plenty of damage and now new concerns of more to come. rick reichmuth live in the the fox weather center with more. hi, rick. >> another active day. third in a row of active storms. around the oklahoma city area. take a look at the satellite radar. all the precipitation is off towards the east. notice the clearing out here allowing it to heat up at the surface. in the next couple of hours we will see the heating begin to rise and watch the development of big thunderstorms. also going to bring a lot of rain. we had numerous water rescues just to the south of kansas city overnight and we will see a lot more rain especially across area of missouri and areas of oklahoma. just to the west of that we have drought, can't get any rain there and we need it. so much here across missouri and iowa. the flooding concern continues with. the flash flood warnings in effect in the red and flood watches and warnings anywhere you see the green. big time rain. anywhere you see the yellow we

could be seeing severe weather today. to the northern side more of a wind and hail threat. the bulls eye for tornadoes right here oklahoma city again and moore just to the south of it. it is this i 44 corridor up towards joplin and from 4:00 to 9 lineback or 10:00 tonight looking at the significant threat for tornadoes. tomorrow the storm moves a little farther to the east. a big area from the great lakes all the way down towards the big bend of texas down towards del rio and sunday still dealing with the same storm but you moves in towards the northeast. all of the population zones here on sunday with the threat of severe weather could see a tornado or two on sunday in the northeast as well. >> megyn: a quick question, rick. in the wake of what we saw with the storm last week in oklahoma, the twister, do people when they hear is report like that with the big red zone around moore? close the schools or take advance precautions this far in advance before the sirens go off? >> sometimes they do close schools. i have not h heard that any schools in oklahoma city have

been closed. there were calls last monday for schools to be closed and they didn't do it. i have not heard that today. sometimes they do but i have not heard that they have done that today. >> megyn: have to think in the wake of what we saw they are at least thinking about it. rick, thanks. >> you bet. >> megyn: a killer asteroid if it hit us which it is not going to, they are did going to say. it is reportedly much larger than the space rock that sent shockwaves through run russian city when it crashed earlier this year. that is video of that one. up next, what to expect in a few hours. and one of the biggest weeks yet in the george zimmerman murder case. the family representing trayvon martin's family is not happy with what he has seen in the last few days. he joins me live. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health

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>> megyn: developing over the

next few hours a rare planet killer asteroid on course to buzz by earth in a gentleman lactic close encounter. imagine nine ocean going cruiseships lined up front to back. that is about the width of this monster space rock. so large it has its own moon! an update live from miami. hey phil. >> if an a asteroid like this e did slam into earth there would be worldwide effect including regional death and destruction. it is not going to slam into the earth. just a close fly by. the gold stone observatory discovered it has its own satellite rock orbiting it and that is the white dot on the tv. it comes closest to earth at 5:00 eastern when it will be he 3.6 million miles away. qet is actually just one of 10,000 asteroids flying close to us represented by all of the green dots. those are all asteroids with up

to a million out there that we have not yet identified all of which the focus of nasa's near he earth objects program. >> it is not coming unusually close to the earth but going to be about 15 times the distance from the earth to the moon. the interesting part about it is it is so large for an asteroid, it is huge. >> a lot being done publicly and privately to prepare for the direct impact asteroid of the future. some plans call for sending a rocket or space craft into space to collide with it or blow it up. other plans call for sending a satellite or craft to use the gravity to change the trajectory of the asteroid. nasa next year spending $40 million to discover and detect are where the asteroids are. there are three rules of protecting earth and rue manty from an asteroid. advance warning. advance warning. advance warning. >> megyn: and then take two

aspirin and kiss your butt goodbye if it goes off course. mike, picking up on my joke, that is true. do we have the capability if an asteroid takes a turn and starts heading toward us to get rid of it? >> well, not if it is so close to the earth now. this is about to zoom past us in a couple of hours so if we just found out about this thing now there is really nothing we could do. too big, too close. it would take lots of time for us to turn away an asteroid of this size at this distance. if we had a couple of decades of notice then yeah, it is possible to send a spacecraft out to rendezvous and tug at its gravity. 20 or 30 years you could potentially nudge that thing off course even if it is pretty big. >> megyn: it is 1.7 miles wide. just a half mile made would make it catastrophic and cause you a global catastrophe if it hit us and this is way bigger

than that. this is major. how long have they been tracking it? >> well, named since 1998 qe 2. they first discovered it in 1998. that is the closest it will come to us for at least 200 years. it is not dangerous to us now and it won't be for another 200 years at the minimum. what the encounter is just a reminder that we are just kind of zooming through space in a cosmic shooting gallery and there are all these rocks out there. millions probably and we only discovered about 10,000 of them. when you see he a monster rock like this more and a mile and a half wide and coming relatively close it sort of reenforces that wow, these things are out there, they are big, it is dark, they are hard to see and eventually one of them is going to have our name on it basically. >> megyn: they said that they leave that 65 million years ago a rock six miles in diameter again this is about 1.7 miles in diameter is what wiped out

the dinosaurs and so the question maybe is not if but when and i'm comforted by what you said in the first answer. do you believe, i mean how hard is it to detect the ones that are out there now and maybe thinking about coming our way 20, 30 years from now? >> well, it is tough. i mean if you think about space is a big place, right. and this is a big asteroid but one and a half miles wide in the depths of space. they are hard to spot. but there is good news, too. nasa and astronomers around the world have been looking for the big civilization killers basically. anything over 6/10 of a mile wide could potentially end civilization if it hit us. they found almost all of the gigantic ones. almost 95% or more. and that is -- and none of those have our name on them for the foreseeable future.

so that is good news. but there is bad is that some of the smaller ones that could actually devastate a city or a state if they hit us, those are much, much harder to detect and there are many, many more of them out there. we found just a tiny percentage of those space rocks. there is a lot of work still left to be done. >> megyn: nasa has dubbed this "a potential city killer" but it won't be they say because it is not going to actually come anywhere near us speaking in the larger term. 3.6 million miles away. close in the relative scale of things but not close enough for us to worry. mike, thank you. new evidence today that the targeting uncovered at the irs went way beyond groups carrying a tea party flag. we will speak with a former irs commissioner who says this methought be as simple as one would suggest. he says he never saw anything like this during his tenure. an ordeal is now over for a

u.s. mother who claims she was arrested in mexico and aa accused of drug trafficking. we will look at why it took so long for investigators to determine her innocence.

innocence.mission after rev several days in mexican prison an arizona mother is back safely inside of the united states with her family. she was arrested last week by the mexican military after they claimed they he found 12-pounds of marijuana under her seat on a bus. dominik dinatale is live near know gal lass. >> a massive relief for the family of maldonado and her

supporters across the united states. it happened fast yesterday after evidence in court was presentd that proved at least to the judge that in no way possible that the couple could have carried drugs onboard the bus as they returned to the united states. of course, there were many flaws behind the case including the military who didn't turn up for the hearing and the fact that they held back evidence including the pivotal videotape that showed the couple boarding the bus and how they couldn't only carry the drugs. she spoke about hugh who you she actually forgave those who appeared to have set her up on this. take a listen. >> it is good to respent repeni don't know, to have a job where they can make a living not putting innocent people through this nightmare like they did to me and my family. >> she says she rested on faith to getand taught to get

or through the nine dayor deal. we spoke to her mexican lawyer yesterday and he said look the prosecution only has 48 hours to get a case together and what they chose to do is not try and prove that she took the drugs. they decided to label her a criminal to fully find a way to prove her guilty. the h husband says that once the tape was shown in court it became so obvious that they were really going to have to let her go. it was that straightforward. take a look at how he described it. >> it showed there was no way you could carry 12-pounds or 5.7 kyle lows with one arm. i had the blankets and we switched them from her to me and then you could see fee fold the blankets curled up so there was nothing in the blankets and showd that on the tape. >> they are traveling up highway 19 in a police escort

phoenix wherepeek where they they will be reunited with the 7 children. we expect them to hold another press conference this evening where they will flesh out more details of the ordeal that she went through. huge sighs here all the way around. >> megyn: a big week in the george zimmerman murder trial but the attorney representing trayvon martin's family says he is not happy with what he has seen take place in the last seven days. benjamin crump joins us live. plus, the irs scandal is widening as is the list of victims who say they is been targeted for conservative views is growing. we speak to the the former head of the irs under president bush coming up. thsecretary of state and

secretary of state cis chief were in there every time he was in there and no other oh he fix came close to him. so to me -- >> go ahead. last word. that is an unusual fact pattern. to support strong bones. and the brand most recommended by... my doctor. my gynecologist. my pharmacist. citracal. citracal. [ female announcer ] you trust your doctor. doctors trust citracal.

>> megyn: new you developments nearly a week before the start of a trial that is expected to be one of the most watched this

year. the murder of 17-year-old trayvon martin. the unarmed teen was shot and killed while walking home in florida last february. the man who did it is claiming self-defense. this week we got a better idea of what the jury will hear once they are selected. it begins on june 10. the judge buzzing through a series of pre-trial motions and some what have happened in court is not sitting well with the attorney for the martin family. that attorney is benjamin crump. my guest now. great to see you. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me he. >> megyn: for the most part the prosecution won in its attempts to stop mr. o o'meara from introducing character evidence of trayvon martin and the judge said none of that is relevant now about alleged drug use and pot smoking and discipline problems in school and alleged history of fighting but didn't close the door all together.

said that o'meara cannent deuce it if it becomes relevant. he came on the broadcast earlier this week and said it will be relevant if the prosecution tries to argue that george zimmerman initiated this confrontation. that is exactly what the prosecution is going to argue, right? >> absolutely. and i think very clear reference to what the judge said was it was inadmissible, it was irrelevant. it was not ex-cull you p exculy way and she wanted to headache sure that only relevant information came to the jury and i think that is important, megyn because there is a lot of things to try to confuse a jury. we want them just focused on what happened that night. >> megyn: do you think this will be an attempted character assassination by the defense

attorney by trayvon martin? >> i think old strategy, nothing new, try to villify the victim to justify the acts of the defendant and in this matter out of the old play book, waited until the jury summons came out to release the information to influence the jury pool. >> megyn: you think when they are coming on tv and releasing the pictures from trayvon's cell phone. a 17-year-old kid. photos ophotos marijuana pot as of a hand holding a gun. that was done to influence the potential jurors in the case? >> i think it absolutely was done to do that. and they put out information saying it was from the cell phone. that is not entirely true. some of it was from social media images. facebook page and twitter page and we don't know what context it was taken from. if it had been manipulated or not from facebook. they put it all out there we

believe to try continue t to ie jury. god help us all if any teenager who smoked marijuana before was give and death sentence. >> megyn: they don't even really need to talk about trayvon martin's character. they can say this comes down to what was in george zimmerman's mind and whether he thought he was in an attack situation without getting into who trayvon martin real i was and what he stood for and so on. why go down the other road of trying to demonize a 17-year-old who has been killed and could that come back to alienate the jury and backfire against them? >> i think they have to be very concerned, megyn. we have to remember the night of february 26, 2012 george zimmerman had no idea who trayvon martin was walking home with his hood ie on in the

rain. it begs the question if you think about it this neighborhood watch volunteer packing a gun on prescription medication is really every parent's worst nightmare when you think about it because god help you if your teenage child is walking through the neighborhood and he decides that your teenager is suspicious and they don't answer the question of george zimmerman when said what are you doing around here and they mouth off, then god help your teenager that he is not shot and killed. >> megyn: they are going to try to o portray george zimmerman as a man who is scared and trayvon martin as someone who was kick to get in george zimmerman's face and one of the things the defense attorney seems ready to try to introduce if given the window is he claims he has videos of trayvon martin filming fights. not trayvon in the fights but filming fights that his friends were having including allegedly

one of his friends beating up a homeless guy to try to show the jury there was a callousness and familiarity with fighting and he was okay with fighting. supposition of where position he is going. >> i think it is misinformation. if you put enough you misinformation and say this is what it is then you influence the jury pool. we doubt seriously there is any such information like that out there. it is all innuendo and suggestion and can't be proven. unfortunately, trayvon martin is dead and can't tell you his side of the story what happened. but all those videos and things we have seen them and they are not trayvon martin in any of the videos and so we think just because they put information out there does not mean that it is evidence. and that is very important to note. what is important is that evidence that we hear from the 911 operator, the objective evidence that you and i can hear with our own ears.

the things we can see with our own eyes. that is objective and i think that the state of florida as well as the defense lawyers should focus on the objective evidence and i believe the jury can make the decision for them themselves. we only askd that it we a fair process to both the victim's family and the defendant and if that is the case everybody can live with it. >> megyn: you won most of the motions. the prosecution which is sort of our side won most of the motions. i want to ask you this. we heard nothing out of the defense to suggest they want to plea he. i think ehe mir eoh mara is goa straight acquittal based on self-defense. does trayvon's family have any interest in a plea deal if the defense were so inclined? >> unfortunately, they don't have any power over anything like that. they he want full justice. they believe their unarmed child was killed unjustly and

that the the killer should be held accountable and the rules of evidence won last week, not the prosecution, not the defense. the rules of evidence that have been well established based on jurisprudence that you can't bring irrelevant stuff into a courtroom and we don't want this case to be anything different from any other case out there that we are part of the rules of evidence. it is transparent and fair since everybody is watching so we know that the rule of law in america is the great beacon that all of the world can see that it is equal and just for everybody. >> megyn: absolutely. thank you so much for being here, sir. >> thank you, megyn. >> megyn: all the best. 11 days from the start of the trial. jury selection begins on june 10 and we shall see what happens in the proceedings. coming up, new evidence that the targeting uncovered at the irs went way beyond tea party groups. up next, we will speak with a former head of the irs about

how wide and deep the scandal may go.

::: f

>> megyn: one of our top stories as the investigation into the irs targeting of conservative groups grows larger. next week, three different house committees will hold hearings into practices at the agency. this after the scandal that first began with reports of the irs targeting tea party groups over the last year started growing. next we had individuals and organizations come forward with

reports about retaliatory audits they believe were taking place in some cases targeting big republican donors and earlier this week we he spoke with a pro israel group which said the irs challenged it and similar organizations because their policies were not consistent with the president's. last hour we spoke with a lawyer for a prolife group who says that the group faced intrusive questions from the tax man about prayers and other matters that were not appropriate. >> they asked specifically in the documents about the activities at the prayer meetings of clients in iowa and also to know the content of the signs they would hold outside of planned parenthood. if your concern is keeping 501 c 3 charities from doing political work why do you care what they do at prayer meetings or outside of a planned parenthood? they are not canvassing voters here. it is nonpolitical in terms of campaigning. it is perfectly approach fit

for the public charities. >> megyn: joining me now mark everson the former head of the irs under president bush. you were the predecessor to douglas shumman the one who has been to the white house during his term some place over 100 times. between 100 and 160. we don't know exactly. i want to ask you first just i have heard you say it before but i want to give you the chance to explain it how unusual that is, that number of visits by the irs chief to the white house? >> well, i guess what i have said, megyn, is i was over at white house from time to time. you go over to beg for money frankly that is part of your job. but you what i have said is that i only went over there one time to go to an interagency policy meeting. we were actually talking about immigration issues and the role that the irs data collection in terms of verifying that somebody had or had not paid taxes and things like that. >> megyn: when you heard that this guy, douglas shulman had

been over there between 100 and 160 times what was your reaction? >> well, i think he bungle dividend d the question when it was asked. there were two legitimate reasons. one is tax reform. the administration was taking a good look at tax reform but more importantly the affordable care act both in the stage of when it was being discussed legislatively and more importantly now that it is law there are many requirements for the service to discharge certain duties and collect information. >> megyn: why so many times and why -- >> that the irs be tied into the conversations about how that be done. >> megyn: why so many times and why the tax chief and tie, mark, face to face meetings? >> somebody has to talk to them but that is a high number. i'm not going to -- i mean it is a breathtaking number. >> megyn: it is a meeting every nine days if in fact it is 157

meetings during his tee tenures was reported. let me talk to you about this structure. you said nothing like this happened during your tenure at the irs, the targeting of specific groups as they applied for tax exempt status. how could this happen? i mean who it this your experience what level would have to order it for it to happen? >> well, there are couple of issues here. what we know now, there is a lot we don't know and that will come out obviously over time at the hearings and justice department investigation. what we do know is quite disturbing. i would say what you had is failures at three level hes. obviously in the cincinnati office a group of people what i say for lack of a better term is they kind of lost their minds and developed inappropriate criteria for selection of detailed reviews of the exempt applications. that is different from audits. is a different group but also within the same larger exempt

organization part of the service. and then you had a failure of management at the intermediary level i would say where lois was supervising the operation but took a year for her to get involved and take a look at the criteria and then took a full two years at least for the criteria that were investigated to be corrected. that is way too long. and then frankly i would tell you the third failure which was very disturbing is was in the front office. this issue was no secret. people were very open about it. congress was asking about the c 4s and you in the media were sort of raising questions about it, too. and the real sort of bewildering point is why wasn't the front office more concerned? why didn't it take a look at it? and when commissioner shumman testified before congress on what basis did he give the blanket denial there was

anything untoward here and why didn't he correct the record afterwards? really three levels of failure i would tell you. >> megyn: what was your reaction when you saw lois lerner take the fifth? >> once the justice department says that they've nishated an investigation and the speaker of the house calling for people to go to jail. someone's entitled to take the fifth. that does not trouble me. go ahead. >> megyn: i was going to say do you think it would having to higher than miss lerner? should she be granted immunity to speak freely about whether this came from above her. >> congress needs to decide that and how to take a look. what we know so far, the commissioner testified he stayed away from the area. i'm paraphrasing. i have to go back into the issa committee material but he said he didn't get overly involved.

>> megyn: we're coming up against a hard break. i want to ask you about the partisan makeup of the irs. we're hearing about the number of donations to democrats but i want to ask you about that next. i'm in my work van, having lunch, next minute i'm in the back of an ambulance having a heart attack. i was in shape, fit. i did not see it coming. i take bayer aspirin. [ male announcer ] so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. see your doctor and get checked out.

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helps him deposit his checks. jay also like it when mother nature helps him wash his car. mother nature's cool like that. citibank mobile check deposit. easier banking. standard at citibank. >> megyn: the former head of the irs under president bush. mark that's a report that talks about how the irs workers belong too union whose action committee gave 95% of contributions to democrats and traced the contribution from the irs cincinnati office, every one went to president obama or a democrat. is the irs a heavily democrat organization? >> let me just say this, i felt always that people from the top

to the bottom did their best to call things right down the middle, if you will. and not to take positions that ran afoul of politics one way or the other. when you get to the union, though, it's true that the republican administrations have dealt with the union differently than the obama or clinton administration dealt with the union. certainly some things that i did, i worked to consolidate functions and it resulted in job losses in certain instances. we had difficult conversations with the union. it's no secret the union has supported president obama in both candidacies but i -- to say that that overplays into this, i think somebody would have to really clearly demonstrate that because my experience -- >> megyn: last question. last question here. what one of the troubling bits is retaliatory audits, do you

believe that's possible? >> not in my experience. i'll be shocked if we find that's happened. the way auditors are selected, the people -- the computer looks at the return. it looks at the different line items in the return then makes a decision as to which ones are statistically out of line. it's like a coke formula, highly secret. >> megyn: but it can't be easily manipulated. >> complaints come from the outside. >> megyn: my apologize. the show is ending in 5 seconds. thank you, sir. 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time.

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call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? >> megyn: have a great weekend. >> shepard: the news begins anew on "studio b" with shepard smith. an american mother of seven walks free from a mexican jail. we're hearing about her time behind bars on bogus drug smuggle thing charges and the evidence that set her free. investigators narrowing their search for the person who mailed ricin to the white house and new york city mike bloomberg. myself more letters all laced with the deadly poison. our first look at the scene where prosecutors say oscar pis tora murdered his model girlfriend. we'll show you did pictures. it's all ahead