this area, god bless them, he are hearty souls and maybe used to this sort of thing and they hear the warnings and then they hear the follow-ups after the watches and they know the storms. so i'm not saying they get blase about it but i think many of them even have e-mailed me to the effect they thought they could beat it and be home and be safe before it hit. in the case of nine individuals that was not the case, was it? >> it wasn't the case. having grown up in oklahoma and watched -- the way janice just described the way the dry line forms and those storms pop up, i don't think most people outside tornado alley realize those thunder heads pop up to 55, 65, 70,000 feet. anywhere along that dry line is where those tornadoes can spawn. any number of them can spawn at any time, which i get that people are -- it's rush hour. they're trying to go home. they're caught in the middle of

it. if you're already home or you're already at work, those pop up so quickly that, again, the instinct is to run. what you should do is to figure out what's the closest shelter in place? that literally might be your bath tub with a mattress or pillow over your head to protect yourself from flying debris. that simple. >> we have a lot more severe storms -- not a lot more storms but more severe storms including the hurricane warnings. is fema in over its head? >> i don't think that fema is in over its head. i think the country has too high of expectations. we have a population of more than 200 million, 300 million people and there's a limited number of first responders. people have to figure out that the number of first responders, the number of people that can respond and take care of you versus the number of people that need to be taken care of, people have to learn what can they do on their own to take care of

themselves and their families. >> michael, thank you. michael brown, former fema director. we are getting these preliminary reports right now of nine people dead. many more injured. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say? ♪

here's why we are live today. so much is breaking at the same time today including new revelations out of washington concerning the irs. that this scandal goes broader and affects more than we know. certainly than we knew 24 hours ago. indications are no fewer than 88 irs agents were behind this conservative group targeting. by the way, according to reports from "the wall street journal" it wasn't just groups but individual conservative donors with conservative causes were cited. this could mushroom to way beyond just a few individuals to maybe quite a few individuals

and show this targeting was widespread from groups to just rich guys who were backing not necessarily the liberal guy. and that raises hackles as well about who knew what and when and why even at this late hour the irs is not responding to requests for documents and a lot of other stuff. a fellow who has been very concerned about this, in fact, will be holding special hearings on all of this, is the fine republican congressman from the good state of georgia tom price. congressman -- >> hi,mill. >> this is getting messier and messier. isn't it just time to say let's get an independent prosecutor andm of it? >> it may be but i don't think the time is now understanding it would be the attorney general that appoints the special prosecutor. the committees of jurisdiction within the house and senate are going through this in a very logical process. there's been a clear over reach. this has been chilling activity. the inspector general's report was an audit and there is an investigation going on now by the inspector general but as you mentioned this is not just

targeting groups. this is leaks that have been provided from the internal revenue service and donors being identified and now it appears donors being audited based upon who they donated to. this is big government against just plain folks. not republicans versus democrats or democrats versus republicans. this is government against just plain folks. and that is what is so chilling about it. >> you know, congressman, what is weird is now the very ag stha stomped on people's privacy is shielding itself claiming privacy laws that prevent it from releasing the very documentation that you need. >> surprise, surprise. they say they need more time to get the documentation that's been asked for. when is the last time the irs told you you could have more time? >> that is actually a very good point. >> but this isn't just about the irs or the treasury or the administration. this is the tone and tenor of the administration but also the largeness and power that the government has.

this is a government that now is so large it identifies individuals it wants to audit and then punish from a financial standpoint. >> you think, congressman, that whether it was direct or indirect the tone or the orders came out directly from the white house or could you have 88 irs agents working as sort of a large group within a multi employee organization? >> this doesn't happen at that level without them having been given the go ahead. whether it was explicit or implicit in that tone and tenor. >> the go ahead from whom? >> that is what we need to find out. was the go ahead just within the irs, the secretary of the treasury, or higher than that? that is what the ways and means committee and oversights committee -- >> and timothy geithner is the treasury secretary that oversees the irs? >> we will be going through this in a methodical process. this is to have some of the groups targeted and ask for their donor lists and then handed those lists over to come

before the committee and describe how chilling that was for them. >> thank you very, very much. >> thanks. >> all right. so we've got a war going on here right if you think about it. the various scandals piling up like planes backing up at laguardia and a still improving economy. what wins out in the 2014 mid-term elections? improving economy? and until yesterday improving markets, still pretty good for the month of may. what is going to decide this? usually the economy. if these scandals keep accelerating, then what? after this. woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment.

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all right. welcome back everybody. if you're getting a lot of e-mails on various guests we've had on including tea party jennifer stefano many of you saying what am i carrying water for president obama by interrupting her by saying that president obama was behind all of these irs investigations. the bottom line, folks, is we don't know that and jennifer believes what she believes

strongly and it might turn out to be the case but leaving aside the fact there is this issue of innocent until proven guilty we are not going to jump to conclusions without the investigation being concluded. so that was why i interrupted her and said we don't know for sure the degree to which this extends or carries up to the white house. many are of that view and it might indeed be the case but it is not my job here to pass along folks' opinions as facts. so that is one of the things we're looking at and whether it does resonate like that because to jennifer's point earlier she thinks it does go up to the white house and she thinks it does get to be watergate like in that event. if that is the case, we do know from watergate how it buffeted the markets and we do know at the same time the economy wasn't all that great. so it was like a one-two punch that really in the end did a lot of damage. we haven't seen it so far in the month of may. we had an awful final day of trading yesterday but the fact is we had all the major market averages up appreciably so,

again, that was despite the 209-point selloff on the very final day of the month. we have brenda here and to you first. what do you think wins out in this case, if it is a scandal all the time or for that matter the economy? which is going to decide where the markets go? >> well, the markets do not mind, wall street does not mind if washington gets tied up more and more in knots because less will get done. that is better for our economy and better for wall street. so i think they're watching the scandals with one eye, also watching the economy. at this point the economy is pretty soft but the fed keeps throwing stimulus right in there and so they're saying, yes. we've had the best five-month start since president clinton was in office. >> is that right? >> in the middle of the internet bubble. >> one of the arguments for the markets, again, yesterday not with standing, doing well, is

that maybe this stymies the president's ability to spend, his big government agenda. maybe it slows it down, all to the good. >> the market certainly, liquidity means money is free. if you can't get any return in bonds then people are buying stocks that pay a dividend. that's completely different than the '90s. we have more dividends being raised by companies. that means, look at. if the -- if government goes into a stalemate we love that. number one. number two, we're worried about the fed. what we've seen here is inflation has been low enough that the fed will continue to buy the paper that they're buying, the bonds, etcetera. that puts more and more money, so a self-fulfilling prophesy now. >> that is the scandal. honestly i think that might be the scandal that we haven't really yet heard about is what is going to be the impact on the economy of all of this federal reserve intervention? it was great the market was up, the stock market was up in may but bonds got crushed. >> that's correct. >> interest rates soaring.

investors in long-term treasuries lost 10% last month. to me it feels not unlike financial stocks back in 2007, summer of 2007. we didn't really know the scope of what that would become a couple years later. i see tremendous weakness and exactly what tobin was mentioning the interest rate sensitive stuff is getting killed right now. >> interest rates the highest in over a year. to the 200 plus-point sell off yesterday had to do a lot with what you were saying. maybe ben bernanke does take the punch bowl away or does better news slow his bond buying program down and then interest rates continue moving up? >> that is a great point. at this point wall street likes bad news about the economy because it means the fed probably will continue -- >> that's kind of perverted in itself. >> well yes. great word. >> have you spent enough time here? >> absolutely. the issue about the interest rates is -- >> no. you don't want growth to be too good? >> not me, personally.

>> tobin and his shallow friends. >> yes. exactly. the guys really making money in the market because it means ben bernanke will probably stop pumping money into the market. but if interest rates go up we've seen the housing market finally start to find some foundation. maybe buyers will get scared and jump in per versely, again. >> well, home builders are saying -- >> i think back to virtually 1987 we had that summer going along and all of a sudden the bond market blew up. in other words it really spiked up. the dollar got strong. all of a sudden we had a crash in '87. it was very much the same type of situation where the stock market was completely away from the economy. we had a huge amount of money going into the bond market and then interest rates. you can't have interest rates go up like this and the stock market like this. >> it depends if they go just a little up or straight up. >> you can't go up because the economy is doing better, that's okay. >> that is exactly it. i think people put a tremendous amount of faith in the federal reserve so that when they

actually do want to start raising interest rates it is going to be done in a calm measure and beneficial measure. i mean when have you ever seen government intervention in any part of the economy? ethanol, housing, schools, and the common reserve way? i think this spike, the feds say hey he has it under control. i think this spike has got to put the whole economy on notice here -- >> the spike is also perspective, right, john? in other words if you are looking at wow i should have, could have gotten a 3% mortgage and now it might be 4%. that is a big deep. i can remember when that would have been like an unreal steal. but it is your perspective. you're used to rates so low for so long and, brenda, everything hits the fan if they're not. >> absolutely. we have been used to interest rates at the absolute record lows. and so people have not been worried about that when they've been potential home buyers. if that becomes a concern, and the housing market is still just faltering, just starting to find its foundation. >> that's right.

>> look, you have to understand that when we start building homes again so people can buy them. >> right. >> a lot of this stuff is because we have supply and demand issues, we actually have not enough bonds out there. the fed is actually -- has bought so many bonds and we run into a problem where there are not enough bonds. >> if they stopped all of that how much higher would rates be? >> 1.5%. >> a lot. >> not much. >> go ahead. >> that's where i disagree. i go back to 2007 and the summer of 2007. all those financial stocks got really weak and people thought oh, they can drop another 5, 10, 15%. who would have ever thought it would go to single digits? i think you could see a real blow up in bonds. >> i'm just happy given your fox business network appearance the other day without a shirt and tie that you decided to dress today. >> yeah. they called. they wanted their clothing back. >> are we going to get e-mails that toby interrupts me like you get e-mails about interrupting?

>> all right. thank you, guys, very, very much for your indulgence with everything else going on on bulls and bears. we do want to update you right now on the other big story today, the fallout from those tornadoes. when you look at some of this video, everyone got out alive in that town. amazing. more after this.'s o nline banki, i get one view of my bank and brokerage accounts with one login... to easily move my money when i need to. plus, when i call my local scottrade office, i can talk to someone who knows how i trade. because i don't trade like everi'm with scottrade. me. (announcer) scottrade. awarded five-stars from smartmoney magazine.

welcome back, everyone. we try to juggle a lot to these close to two hours now, our business audiences we respect, love and admire. we're not forgetting you and general news audience and captivating developments out of much of the midwest and the southern portion of our country. i do want to let you know for regular viewers of our regular business show, they will be on our fox network, bulls and bears cavuto, 8:00 to 10:00 tomorrow. we will also be airing today,

cavuto on business. cash it in, right, guys? 4:00 to 5:00 p.m. today. we're not forgetting you. we do juggle a lot and appreciate the enormity of what's going on here because you can bet people in oklahoma are not worrying about their portfolios, pinching themselves to say, my gosh, we're alive, okay. that's where you find mike tobin. hello, mike. >> reporter: i will give you a quick aftermath of the storm and destruction we're seeing. this is one of the big rooftop air-conditioning units. the catch is it's 130eds to supe on the rooftop. the force of the destruction brought it down. this is a metal stud, actually chief construction material, doesn't take much to bend this up. it does take a lot to get it out of the wall. as we take a look around here, across the parking lot, i another parking shot, i can show you a truck that was overturned by the force of the storm, laying upside down in the parking lot right now. looking across the parking lot,

another truck that was flipped over by the force of the storm. i will show you one more example of the force of the storm. all of the trees have been denuted. the foiliage stripped off the trees. what you can see here is there is still bark on the tree. that is consistent from what we heard from the meteorologist this was a powerful tornado but wasn't like an f4 and f5 because if you have an f4 and f5, that will strip the bark off the trees and won't leave them standing anymore. all of them are pretty consistent. it was a powerful, deadly tornado, not the maximum strength tornado we saw a couple weeks ago and also very consistent with the fact these storms had a tremendous amount of water because, as we've been around here in this particular area, especially, we've seen rivers up over their banks, a lot of standing water on the roadways, neil. >> a lot of the standing water hadn't receded from the last storm. it compounds everything, right? >> reporter: exactly. the ground itself was saturated.

you put more water on it and put a tremendous amount of water on it as it just did, that's when you start talking about your flashflood conditions. >> mike, when you talk to people out there who have been through this again multiple times, not to this severity. what is their mood? they're amazingly persevering folks, but wow. >> reporter: you know what i found from the people out here, particularly in this immediate area, they're very glad they went through their tornado drills. you had 14 people in this building, people taking night class and the maintenance staff, they went through the drills and knew what to do and all came out of this thing alive, a lot of structural damage. in the big picture, you have so many people in the area, now talking nine people dead, that's terribly sad but compared to the number of people that survived, it's remarkable. >> it is indeed, as is your reporting, my friend. mike tobin keeping us up with

the fallout and flooding throughout the west of the weekend and keeping you up with the developments. the economic impact will be considerable. whether you live in this region or not, you will be paying for it and addressing it. that will do it. chances are, you're not made of money, so don't overpay for boat insurance. geico, see how much you could save.

horn horizontal. >> terrifying twisters barrelling down on storm chasers. tornadoes slamming oklahoma city and neighboring towns. at least nine people are now dead including a mother and her baby. another 50 people are reported injured at this time. violent weather trapping people underground and in cars. this storm barrelling through friday evening rush hour, powerful winds tossing 18-wheelers like they were toy trucks and bad weather sweeping east illinois. hello, everybody. we have