>> gretchen: can any dog do tricks? >> that's right, mac is proof that any dog can do tricks. inside every good dog, there is a great dog. >> brian: tomorrow, eddie money in the summer concert series. morning. fox news alert. lawmakers set to grill top irs officials on 50 million in spending on these lavish conferences. it all starts in 30 minutes time. what will we get here? you get the money. spend the money. that's what we're seeing. i'm bill hemmer. welcome another edition of "america's newsroom". >> that sin credible. >> really makes you angry. martha: if you don't laugh you're going to cry situation. good morning to you. i'm martha maccallum. today's hearing will feature the new irs chief, danny werfel who we've seen and an appearance by the inspector general. the new person may be the

faris fink. you may have seen him in the infamous irs video playing the role of dr. spock. >> captain, there may be another solution. i took the liberty doing a time warp scan of the galaxy. i found leaders who could be of assistance. they met back in the 21st century in anaheim, california. earth, sir. bill: hand him the oscar. that and other irs videos costing you $50,000. now the irs has to answer for it. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel live from the hill. the hits keep coming from this group. other than spock, what do we expect from the hearing when it starts in 30 minutes? >> reporter: makes you wonder when he goes with the vulcan live long and prosper when they swear him in. the one of the early questions will be, what were you thinking? this was going on with the nation in a very deep recession when many americans were losing their jobs and homes. one top house leader predicts we're just scratching the surface of

this irs mess. >> to me it's a cultural problem at the irs. one i think this you see, it is not just those two employees. think about what they go before everybody. we're now hearing this isn't just the direction of cincinnati looking over. they were now telling irs agents are telling us that washington was sending them some direction on who to investigate. >> reporter: one key law make other on the house oversight committee will try to get who beyond the irs was involved in the targeting of conservative organizations. bill: you make a great point about the spending and debt was climbing. all this was going on at the same time. there are lawmakers who have been trying to keep an eye on spending at the irs . what do you know that, mike? >> reporter: we broke yesterday senator tom coburn, senator from oklahoma was asking more than a year ago about conference spending. he was told by the treasury department it was less than a half million dollars. it was closer to $50 million. now coburn is demanding answers. >> it leads to one of two

conclusions. one, they're totally incompetent in terms of magging what they're doing. or they're deceitful and quite frankly, i don't know which it is. i've asked the inspector general to look into this. and i've always sent secretary lew a letter, saying, explain this. >> reporter: trey gowdy, who is on the house oversight committee, tells me it is important to do these hearings to get the public information but a lot of meat and potatoes of investigations are done behind closed doors underoath. the third of three irs hearings on capitol hill is less than 30 minutes away, bill. bill: you wonder what is an acceptable answer in this. you continue to wonder. you don't come up with an answer that is appropriate. we're watching the hearing. mike emanuel live on the hill. martha has more. martha: there are just layers to this irs story because this hearing happens while the irs is still of course under intense scrutiny for the targeting of conservative groups. it started some three years

ago, early in 2010. the agency began inappropriately singling out and denying large numbers of conservative groups who were applying for tax-exempt status. nearly 500 groups were tar the ited and subjected to unfair scrutiny and questions. some of these groups had tea party in their name. they had patriot in their name. they waited, some of them, over three years to have their tax-exempt applications processed. while they waited, many other groups on the left were approved and two election cycles came and went. bill: the numbers don't lie either, martha. it appears this has taken a toll on america's confidence in their government. a new "wall street journal" poll shows 55% the irs scrutiny of conservative groups raises doubts about the overall integrity of the obama administration. 26% say it does not. the rest say they don't know enough about the controversy. martha: one of the congressman who will be at today's hearing, jason chaffetz.

the utah -- utah republican joins us what he expects to hear and the questions he is preparing for irs officials. that comes up a few minutes away on "america's newsroom". this fox news alert as well. a bombshell report this morning that the national security agency has been secretly collect the phone records of tens of millions of americans. a top secret court order forcing verizon, one of the country's largest phone companies to hand over daily call information for every single one of their customers with no suspicion necessary. generally these kinds of searches have haed a specific tear rift group or organization they're targeting this one is extremely broad. that is why it has gotten so much attention. peter doocy jobs me live from the white house. peter, what kind of data do we know what the feds are looking for here? >> reporter: we know they want to see the phone number you dialed, when you dialed it and how long you talked to the person on the other end of the line.

that goes for all verizon customers in the fights. there are about 121 million of them on an ongoing basis, from april 25th until july 19th. these details are coming from a secret foreign intelligence surveillance act, fisa court order, obtained by "the guardian" newspaper, from the white house. senior administration official the order reprinted in the article doesn't allow the government to listen in on anyone's telephone calls. the information acquired does not include con of any communications and the name of any subscriber. the white house says this kind of information is a critical tool in protecting the united states from terrorists in an e-mail this morning a verizon official though declined to comment. martha. martha: what kind of reaction is all this getting in washington? >> reporter: here in d.c. it has been mixed, martha. some groups think this is a massive invasion of privacy like the aclu who said in a statement this morning, from a civil liberties

perspective the program could hardly be anymore alarming. it is beyond orwellian and provides further extent of basic democratic rights are surrendered in secret to the demands of unaccountable intelligence agencies. but just last hour, republican senator lindsey graham says he thinks this is okay. >> i don't mind verizon turning over records to the government if the government is going to make sure that they try to match up a known terrorist phone with somebody in the united states. i don't think you're talking to terrorists. i know you're not. i know i'm not. so we don't have anything to worry about. >> reporter: the justice department is saying this morning, martha, at this point they have not yet begun an investigation into how this top secret court order ended up in the hands of the guardian newspaper. martha: that is another significant question in all this. peter, thank you very much. bill: it was about two years ago president obama signed

legislation extending key provisions of the patriot act. that was set to expire in 2011. under the act the fbi is allowed to access any tangible items like customer records from businesses for national security reasons. the patriot act is expanded until the year 2015. martha: one of the things, bill, that we talked about that came up after the boston marathon bombing why there hadn't been more surveillance on the tsarnaev brothers. they had been tagged by the russian intelligence service and told to keep an eye on them. one of the questions we touched with here, tom ridge, the original homeland security chief why they weren't doing tracking of him. interesting this order came in shortly after that, three-month period. it is extremely broad in the scope. bill: month of july. martha: mid-july. there is new hope today in the desperate search going on in philadelphia. overnight rescuers pull ad woman from the rubble. what an unbelievable moment this was.

more than 12 hours after that building collapsed. she was rushed to the hospital in critical condition. six people are now confirmed dead in this horrific building collapse. now some people in the area say they had concern about that building's sift for some time. laura engel live in the newsroom with the latest. we hear the woman found alive was talking with rescuers were trying to save her. >> reporter: indeed a miracle moment. she has been identified as 61-year-old maya plikum. rescued before midnight and rescue efforts we're told by the local fire department are still underway. she was found alive and alert and was able to communicate with her rescuers before being taken away on the stretcher as you see here in the amazing video and transported to a nearby hospital. what she was able to communicate at this point we still don't know but we know she was talking. rescuers have been working all night long and using buckets and bare hands to

move bricks and rubble to search for survives. >> they found them the way they found them. they were digging in the area where they located other individuals. that is how they came up. >> after a long day how did it feel to find someone alive? >> it feels outstanding to pull somebody alive. >> reporter: looking for more outstanding moments like that if there are other people buried. she was the 14th survivor found and remains in critical condition in the intensive care unit at a local hospital. six people died in the collapse. one woman reportedly on her first day of work at the salvation army thrift store. martha. martha: so sad. obviously the people who work and live near this collapse as we said in the intro had concerns about this building, right? >> reporter: we're hearing some people said this is an accident waiting to happen. a roofer who watched workers taking down the building over the last weeks, told reporters in philly questioned the way the demolition crews was going about. others agreed. the methods seemed subject.

large spaces of walls without no braces or support. we reach you had out to to company in charge. demolition. they had proper permits for the job according to the city department of licenses and inspections. we'll keep on top of this. martha: great news in that rescue. laura, thank you very much. bill: here is the job look for the week. fox news alert. report out moments ago. labor department reporting 346,000 americans filed for unemployment claims about a week ago, a level seemingly consistent with steady job growth. weekly applications hit a five-year low about a month ago, suggesting an improving picture where layoffs are concerned still businesses are not hiring at any great clip. the may jobs report due out friday is expected to show only modest job creation. the picture of the national job market shows this, 4.6 million americans collecting unemployment insurance. the average unemployed person out 36 1/2 weeks and more than four million have

been out of work for six months or more. 12 minutes past. not great numbers. martha: just getting started here this morning. there is a glimmer of hope for a dying girl. >> what!. whoo!. martha: those are moments of excitement captured on video by her family when a major ruling by a federal judge came down. it could change everything for little sara and her family. bill: the first named storm of the atlantic hurricane season is now out there. andrea. andrea closing in on the u.s. coast bringing with it a threat of tornadoes. a close look at that coming up in the forecast. martha: at a time many americans were tightening their belts and concerned about the spending in d.c. the irs was spending $50 million on more than 200 conferences they went to. today, we might get some answers. >> this was not an accident. this is a willful act of intimidation to discourage a

point of view. what the government did to our little group in wetumpka, alabama, is un-american. [ male announcer ] with free package pickup from the united states postal service a small design firm can ship like a big business. just go online to pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. we'll do the rest. ♪ we'll do the rest. help the gulf recover, andnt to learn from what happenedg goals: so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology,

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martha: we're learning a bit more about who revealed classified information to hollywood producers working on a movie about the hunt for usama bin laden. according to a watchdog report former defense secretary leon panetta revealed the name of the raid commander in the presence of the "zero dark thirty" filmmaker. it happened at a classified event the writer was invited to. another top pentagon official gave film-makers the name of a special-ops planner involved in the raid. congressman peter king is slamming the administration talking about hip pock chris they're cracking down on leaks while leaking top secret information to hollywood studios. bill: we are minutes away from hearing from the top irs officials to tell us how the agency spent $50 million of your money. the irs conference in

anaheim, california, three years ago, the most expensive. $4 million for 2600 employees. almost 1600 bucks per person. the four officials on the hot seat today, the irs inspector general, j. russell george is back, screen left. new irs chief denny -- danny werfel. and faris fink who played the role of spock in the spoof video. jason chaffetz we'll talk to who will ask some questions at the hearing. jason chaffetz, good morning. welcome back to "america's newsroom". >> thank you, bill. bill: think about the spending in government culture, what this shows you, they have the money, they will spend the money. >> yeah. it is just out of control. it is just pervasive culture with total disregard for, it's the people's money. whenever there's a decision to spend money, you're taking money out of somebody's wallet to give it to somebody else.

bill: they don't think that way. >> no, they don't. bill: the irs could have negotiated cheaper rooms and chose not to. which company runs itself that way? the report says 2600 managers flown to anaheim, california. what a great gig that must be. $6400 gifts to its employees. how do you explain this stuff away? >> they spent $50,000 on these silly videos. they spent $3.7 million in flights and hotels. you are telling me you couldn't do a teleconference or conference call or produced a little video somebody had to watch at their desk? there is total disregard and disrespect for the people's money. it is pervasive attitude. it has to stop. so out of control. bill: you know what is more insidious, this is 2010, 2011, 2012. >> yeah. bill: this is when the critical lens of government spending, every day, in every newspaper, every website across america was focused on government spending. anaheim, $4 million. philadelphia, $3 million for a convention there.

san diego and atlanta, 1.2 million each. i mean, this comes from an ad membership vision -- administration in 2012 said no government agency can spend more than $500,000 on any singular conference. they went well above that in all these cases. you get a chance to today to talk to faris fink. faris fink played spock in the "star trek" parody. what will you ask faris fink? >> be interesting to see if he comes in unform. not every day you get to interview spock. you smile and get this snarky little thing. you look at it, say what in the world were you doing? so far the irs in holding people accountable has only put two people on administrative leave for getting free food. the total disregard for the people's money. the outrageous spending, going outside the pa rammers it of scope of what they're allowed to do by their own internal rules doesn't seem to be paramount because

nobody has been fired at this point. they're only put on administrative leave because they got free food? this is ridiculous. bill: it was 1,000 or $1100 too, which is absolute pennies talking about this. i want to ask you about this "wall street journal" report. because folks in cincinnati saying we did nothing unless the attorneys for the irs in washington, d.c., i have a name for you too, carter hall, unless they approved and oversaw everything. what do you know about that? >> well, clearly this is continuing to blossom. i don't think anybody at first blush believed it was two rogue agents at some office in since that the at this that came up with this scheme here. the system is designed so two rogue people can't go off and do this. the oversight and government reform will continue to dive into this. it is blossoming into a lot more. clearly it looks to us at this point there are people here in washington, d.c. that were intimately involved in this. we're going to get to the bottom of that. bill: there is critical

question too, who ordered the targeting? who ordered it? >> who ordered it and then who got the information? was there information leaked? was there information shared with other people? how long has this been going on? how many different groups have been going on? this is continues to be outrage on both sides of the aisle but i got to tell you, this is one of the biggest abuses of power in the public trust that ever seen. bill: remember lois lerner, steve miller, they have both said publicly that the people in since natty are to blame. now that story is starting to shift. how will this hearing advance it, do you think? >> hopefully we talk to mr. werfel, he is knew into this position and also speaking with the inspector general, there are a lot of other documents. we've had people on the ground from our committee going into ohio. this is going to take some time to unweave this whole mess but we will get there, bill. we will get there. bill: we'll see you in about 15 minutes the hearing begins there on capitol

hill. jason chaffetz, republican from utah. thank you. martha: we'll get to that live in just a few minutes. stick around for that. hope for a dying girl in need of a lung transplant. what a judge did that health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius would not. . at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. if you want to save yourself time and avoid a hassle, go to angie's list. at angie's list, you'll find the right person to do the job you need. and you'll find the right person quickly and easily. i'm busy, busy, busy, busy. thank goodness for angie's list. from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more, angie's list -- reviews you can trust. oh, angie? i have her on speed dial.

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call your doctor right away if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired, have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of rare but serious side effects. is your cholesterol at goal? ask your doctor about crestor. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. bill: got some breaking news. state college, pa. a federal judge says there was no legal basis for governor tom corbett's lawsuit against the ncaa. he was challenging sanctions against penn state related to the matters that surrounded jerry sandusky. the case was thrown out. it was called a hail mary pass by the judge trying to overturn a $60 million fine, four-year post-season bowl ban. this crossed the associated press moments ago. martha: there is new hope for the family today of a dying 10-year-old girl.

a federal judge temporarily allowed sarah murnaghan to be placed on the adult waiting list for a lung transplant. she was younger than the minimum age for that list of 12. her family released this video of sarah when she got that good news. >> what!. whoo!. whoo!. martha: david lee miller joins us. we saw sarah's reaction. how did the rest of the family react, david lee? >> reporter: the word you used best sums it up. that word is hope. the family says for the first time in months it is experiencing some hope. there are other emotions they describe, including relief, happiness and gratitude. the family released a statement. it reads in part, and i quote. sarah's placement in the cue for adult lungs will be based on severity of her illness and will not be

penalized based on her age. sarah's aunt was in court when the judge made the ruling feels a renewed sense of optimism. >> we were overjoyed. i couldn't believe it. i know 10 days could mean her living, a good full life that she deserves. >> reporter: family is also urging people to sign up to become organ donors. so far not much reaction to the judge's ruling from the department of health and human services. the agency issued a brief statement saying hhs declines to comment on ongoing legal matters. hhs secretary sebelius previously rejected the putting family on the donor list saying she did not have the authority to change the existing protocol. the organ procurement and transplantation network operates under hhs was set up by congress in 1984 to determine a uniform set of rules on transplants. it is scheduled to meet next monday, martha, to discuss possible revisions of its protocols. martha: david lee, this is only a temporary victory really for the family.

they have 10 days, right, under this statute? >> reporter: you're absolutely right. the clock is ticking. the judge's ruling was a temporary restraining order. it will remain in effect until june 14th. athat time he will hold a hearing on matter to decide whether sarah will remain eligible for a adult lung donation. by then the family hopes the issue will be moot because a successful transplant procedure will have been completed. sarah has been on the waiting list for a child's lung donation since september of 2011. even with eligibility on the adult list there is no guaranty she will get a transplant. some medical experts say, children often fare far worse than adults who undergo had this type of procedure. this is a race against the clock for the family to try to get a donor for the upcoming hearing. martha: we wish them time. they have been so brave throughout the whole thing. david lee, thank you. bill: we are minutes away

from this hearing on the hill. a top irs official set to explain why they spent millions of taxpayer dollars on lavish conferences. how do you blow four million on one conference in one city at one setting? >> this is a culture. think about it for a moment. they are holding this $4 million party, giving out swag bags in 2010. in the height of our fiscal challenges. this is what they're doing. who would ever think this was right? who would ever thing in the process with need a guideline to do it? look what mommy is having. mommy's having a french fry. yes she is, yes she is. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice, with three of your daily vegetable servings

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bill: another day, another hearing on the irs. why did that agency spend close to $50 million on conferences? that's darrell issa. heads up that committee. we will drop in here when the questions begin. there are four witnesses. so the hits just keep on coulding for the irs. back to that hearing minutes away, martha. martha: another big story this morning is this report that the nsa is surveilling millions of u.s. verizon customers watching the numbers that they're calling from, and tracking them to the numbers they're calling to in a very broad surveillance program that falls under the patriot act t has a lot of people very interested in the details in all of this. here's same from a senior white house official on this program this morning. it says, quote. on its face the order reprinted in the article, the guardian article that

started all of this, does not allow the government to listen in on anyone's phone calls. the information acquires does not include the content of any communication or reveal the name of any subscriber that is supposed to put people's fierce to rest to some extent. we're joined by byron york, chief political correspondent from the "washington examiner" and fox news contributor. byron, what is the your reaction to this story? >> it is a pretty big deal. i suppose it is some comfort to know that the government was not actually listening to the conversations. if the people were upset that the government secretly gotten phone records of associated press reporters what are they going to think they have done it for the whole country or some huge block of the country? verizon has millions and millions of customers. what we will have to know, how long has this been going on, what is the specific purpose of it and especially is there some limiting principle involved? for example, is there some telephone that they have tracked in yemen or pakistan

or somewhere like that they want to see if it is having any communications with people inside the united states? and they're limiting their searches to things like that. i think we have to learn a lot more before we really go nuts on this. martha: when you look back, congress reinitiated the patriot act in 2011. it is good from 2011 to 2015, during that period. certainly this is allowed under the surveillance laws. the big issue here is the broadness of it. that it is such a large scope. in these rules when you read them, and you read the patriot act, it details when you're going after a specific terrorist, a specific group, you're allowed to get this sort of information. here once again the charges that it is overbroad such as we saw in ap. >> that is exactly what it was in ap because they didn't limit it. here looks like the same thing just on steroids. it is just this enormous number of records they have gone through. but you do point out the patriot act made the government go to a judge to

have permission to get permission to do this. and, what "the guardian" newspaper published in all this was the actual order that the judge signed telling verizon to hand over this information. it is called met at that data, to the government. it has gone through due pros test -- process here but we don't have any indication it is limited in any way. i'm a verizon customer. i up immediately thought, wow, they have seen every call that i have made. martha: strange feeling. i am too. i agree. but one. large charges in all this that people are screaming about this morning is that the obama administration professed itself to be antithesis of the bush administration. when the president was running for office he scourned this program and felt it was intrusive and overbroad and all of those things. so many people look at this and say, gee, well, isn't that what he said during the election? if so why would he take it even further than president bush did? >> all those criticisms now apply double to himself.

it is true that the president has talked about changing from bush anti-terrorism policies. he talked about closing guantanamo. he talked about changing all sorts of other policies but he hasn't actually done it. in this case it may be he is actually broaded the very policies that had a lot of liberals and civil libertarians upset in the bush years. he has really a lot of explaining to do. martha: byron, one of the things that i occurred to me when i read the data this morning we talked to tom ridge the first director of homeland security, right after the boston bombing we learned the russians alert us to the tsarnaev brothers and raised questions. i had questions to tom ridge about the patriot act. we found out yes it in fact was. why wouldn't our intelligence folks watching phone calls of these two young men? now, it is interesting that a month later this whole program kicked in, with this very broad surveillance. i wonder if there is any connection?

and i wonder if they didn't feel they were caught a big flat-footed in the tsarnaev boston marathon bombing situation and thought, gee, let's throw out a big umbrella over this and see what we get? >> that could be the case and there could be a connection but i would warn against making any too close connection between a specific event and this. we do know in general terms that the government has stopped a lot of terrorist plots over the years and, you have to wonder whether this kind of technique was part of doing that and was part of trying to find, discover terrorist plots before they happened. my question whether or not this was happening last month or the month before but whether this has been happening every year for the last however many years. martha: all great questions. byron, thank you very much. >> thank you, martha. martha: good to talk to you. bill: we are watching and listening for this hearing now. darrell issa moments ago made another accusation about the agency. we'll tell you what he said in a moment here. the attorney general eric holder now responding about the spying on journalists including fox's james rosen.

what is not in the letter according to lawmakers. eric holder goes public about his future. tell you what he said. martha: interesting. we'll be right back. ready? happy birthday! it's a painting easel! the tide's coming in! this is my favorite one. it's upside down. oh, sorry. (woman vo) it takes him places he's always wanted to go. that's why we bought a subaru. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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martha: all right. another hearing is underway with regard to the irs. today's subject is the $50 millions that was spent on more than 200 conferences in

a two-year period. it boggles the mean but chairman issa has been speaking for several minutes in introductory comments. he had strong words for the agency and accused the agency, the irs of tax evasion themselves. listen to this. >> when it comes to 10 of millions of dollars, use it in a way that is at best maliciously self-indull dpent. -- indulgent. to spend more than you would have spent by normal negotiations for rooms is unthinkable for any agency. but when it is the irs and they give to their own employees benefits such as local employees in anaheim, and then fail to file w-2s for that income, the irs effectively was guilty of tax evasion. martha: well, we're going to take you back there live. when the questioning gets underway for j russell george and danny werfel who

is the head of the irs. the man who played spock in the great irs video which we've been showing you over the past several days. he will also testify. bill: also breaking news on this now. we're just learning the attorney general eric holder did in fact send a letter to house judiciary chairman bob goodlatte about the targeting of reporters that would come after the committee's deadline. he missed the deadline by about two hours. meanwhile the embattled attorney general will appear before the senate appropriations committee one hour from now. if there are any doubts about holder's future, he apparently doesn't have any. he says he will not go anywhere. this is with nbc. >> there are some things i want to do. some things i want to get done i discussed with the president. once i have finished that, i will sit down with him and we'll determine when it is time to make a transition to a new attorney general. >> to be clear you are not stepping down now? >> no. i have no intention of doing so now. bill: doug, former advise are to president

bill clinton. monica crowley. does that surprise you, monica. >> from eric holder, bill, no, it doesn't. he doesn't want to look like he is stepping aside because of pressure coming from rep from democrats. we saw the story in the "new york times" suggesting there are some in the west wing would like to see eric holder go because he is becoming too much of a distraction. eric holder is a good friend of this president and a loyal soldier. he said, truthfully so, there are a lot of things i want to do with regard to the fundamental transformation of the nation. i think only person whose real opinion matters is the president. as long as the president continues to back him up, holder is staying. bill: do you at this disagree with that, doug, in any way? >> no, i don't. the operative language i took from holder's comments, bill, i will sit down with the president at the appropriate time. he is doing precisely what monica said. he is sending a signal both to the democrats and the republicans the only man who

matters in his future is president barack obama and it will be the president himself, not leakers, people sending messages who will determine his fate. bill: kind of a defiant day, yesterday, don't you think? when you think about susan rice and samantha power in the rose garden. eric holder agrees to interview with pete williams of nbc and says i'm not going anywhere, monica, this is kind of like game on, is it not? >> absolutely. bill: to republicans? >> oh, absolutely 100%. that was defiant gesture appointing susan rice as national security advisor. eric holder coming forward and saying i'm not going anywhere. president says i'm not going anywhere and i have my prerogatives in place and this is what i'm doing. it is throwing down the gauntlet to the republicans in congress pursuing investigations against holder in the doj and irs. look the benghazi hearings are still coming out there with new whistle-blowers getting ready and preparing to testify on that issue as well. so this president is saying, look, come and get it. knock yourselves out here.

but that is a very dangerous strategy. saw it with president nixon. saw it with president clinton. saw it with gary hart. whenever you tempt opposition or press to investigate you and check you out, you know what? they're going to do it and lord only knows what you will find. bill: you called it dangerous. doug, is it? >> i wouldn't use the word dangerous, i would say it is more defiant the president in his news conference approximately two weeks after the election signaled his intention to appoint susan rice. he basically said look, i won the election. it is clear that my side won. the republicans lost. he made it clear that there was going going to be no attempt at conciliation, consensus-building. bottom line as monica suggests, these, these developments yesterday and the appointments make it very clear he is going his own direction. bill: the positions are hardened you could say that. >> that's right. bill: back to this letter, missed a deadline by two hours? i don't know how, how house republicans take that, monica.

it was a short letter described to us as very short. went to the committee last need. the aide described the letter as not responsive. >> nonresponsive. right. look, what we're seeing from holder in terms of his behavior, in dealing with this entire issue and dealing with the house judiciary committee and others looking into this, has shown i think, incredible disrespect for a coequal branch of government, the congress. and incredible disregard for authority and the law here. and the fact that eric holder has been away with it at least to this point is astonishing. the but i think even republicans on the committee had enough. bill: i apologize for interruption. 30 seconds left, doug, but he still has to explain the potential prosecution for james rosen, right? >> that was going to be my focus, bill. bottom line, they narrowly used language to say, well, we didn't intend to prosecute him, so the attorney general didn't tell a falsehood or mislead the committee.

bottom line, bill, that requires answers from the attorney general before congress to clear up what he was doing, why he was doing it and why he could sign the order and say what he did. so i think we've got a lot of questions that remain unanswered. bill: we'll see him in one hour. doug, thank you. >> thank you. >> monica, thanks to you as well. >> you bet. bill: martha. martha: a storm in washington and the first tropical storm of the season is out there as well, folks. it is aimed directly at florida this hour. it isn't just florida that could deal with dangerous weather to come. what other parts of the country need to be concerned about this. an update right after this.

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martha: we have tropical storm warnings that are in effect right now florida. the state is bracing for andrea. this is the first named storm of the 2013 hurricane

season. florida is not the only state that will deal with the wrath of this storm. you can see the path of it there on the screen as it heads up the east coast. steve harrigan is live in florida this morning where they are already feeling this one. hi, steve. >> reporter: martha, conditions here really deteriorating over the past hour or so in the tampa-st. pete area. we're seeing heavy rain as the band comes through here. the storm is center of it is north and west of here but really this area could get hit the hardest. we've seen winds of 20 to 30 miles per hour. the real problem will be the rain, anywhere from three inches already has fallen. that could get up to six to eight incheses in some areas. the concern if you couple that with a storm surge of two to four feet, we could see real heavy flooding both along the coast and inland. another concern too is tornadoes. two have touched down. minor damage was reported. no injuries from the two tornadoes. multiple counties in florida

under a tornado warning as well, martha. martha: what do they think the path of this looks like, steve? >> reporter: the path of it is going to go to the northeast but the concern is the rain. we've had some sandbagging going on in smaller places along the coast. some of these towns in florida really are used to getting flooded pretty quickly. you can see it is just actually pouring down right now. this is just the start of what could be a very intense hurricane season. government forecasters have predicted anywhere from three to six major hurricanes could touch down this season, which ends in november. we're getting an early taste what could be a very rough summer for floridians, martha. martha: boy, we're feeling it and they're definitely feeling it, steve. thank you very much. we'll see you later. bill: want to take you inside this hearing now. what we've been waiting for is the opportunity for the four witnesses to speak and, we really think this will be the meat of the matter here. the questions and the answers going back and forth. at issue, is government spending and what the irs

did between this period of 2010 and 2012. who knows what happened before 2010. but get this, in 2012 the white house came out and said, on behalf of, you know, the government, no agency can spend more than $500,000 on any singular conference, that is a lot of loot. martha: a lot of money any way, right? bill: what the irs did two years prior blows your mind. they spent 4 million in anaheim. 3 million in philadelphia. martha: that is not easy to do. bill: 1.2 million in san diego. 1.2 million in atlanta. martha: you have to work hard to spend that kind of money at those conferences. bill: they flew 2600 employees to anaheim, california. martha: i want to figure out why you need to fly anyone anywhere? why you need to fly or travel in this position, i have no idea. congressman cummings moments ago saying of the "star trek" video, says i have looked at that video and over and over again i swear i do not see the redeeming

value in it. we'll play that in a little bit. here is j. russell george who did the inspector general's report that started the whole ball of wax rolling. here he is. >> an estimated $49 million for 225 conferences during the three-year period of our review. the conference in california was held at the marriott hilton and sheraton hotels in anaheim in august of 2010 at a reported cost of $4.1 million. the small business self-employed division of the irs conducted this conference for an estimated 2600 executives and managers. as required at the time, the conference was approved by the two deputy commissioners of the irs. we could not validate the accuracy of the $4.1 million conference costs because the irs did not have effective controls to track and report those costs. -- $3.2 million of the

conference costs were paid from unused funding originally intend for hiring enforcement employees. instead of using the required irs personnel whose job it is to search for the most cost effective location for the conference, the irs used two commercial planners to identify a site for the conference. these two planners were not under contract with the irs and thus had no incentive to negotiate a favorable room rate. they were paid an estimated total of $133,000 in commissions based on the costs of the rooms paid by the irs. rather than negotiate a lower room rate, the planners specifically requested 25 or more vip suite upgrades, with amenities from the hotel, along with a reception with complimentary drinks and daily breakfasts, and other refreshments. the agreement with the hotels indicated that a

total of 132 suite upgrades were provided each night by the three hotels. for example, the commissioner and deputy commissioner for the small business division stayed multiple nights in presidential suites at the hotels. other examples of questionable spending for the conference include planning trips costing $35,000. two video productions which were shown at the conference. local employees were authorized to stay at the hotel at an expense of $30,000. $44,000 in travel costs were incurred for employees to staff booths in an exhale. gifts and trinkets were given to irs employees costing $64,000. and $135,000 were expended for outside speakers. one of whom was paid $17,000. this speaker created six paintings at two sessions. two of the paintings were

give away at the conference. three were auctioned off for charity, and one was reported by irs as lost. in addition it this audit, tigta conducted other reviews of individuals related to the conference which focused on potential misconduct. although details of our action are confidential pursuant is to title 26 section 6103, sub second 2-b. and, and f of internal revenue code we referred issue to the internal revenue service for consideration of administrative action. overall our review of this conference did not uncover any criminal violations. in conclusions it is worth noting that the irs conference spending as was pointed out dropped over the three-year period from a total of $38 million in 2010, to $5 million in 2012. this was due in large part to increased oversight and

controls instituted a the irs. we did make further recommendations to tighten controlsp and the irs has agreed to all of our recommendations. chairman issa, ranking member, cummings, members of the committee. thank you for the invitation to appear. >> thank you. >> i have nothing. i look forward to your questions. >> mr. fink? >> chairman issa, ranking member cummings, members of the committee, my name is faris fink. i am the commissioner with the small business self-employed division of internal revenue service. i appreciate the opportunity to appear here today. i have worked for the internal revenue service for 32 years, starting as a grade 7 revenue officer in ohio. i became the commissioner of the small business self-employed operating division in may of 2011. i am proud to be an irs employee and serve alongside thousands of dedicated public servants who administer our tax laws. my division has 24,000

employees and it accounts for majority of the $50 billion that the irs collects in enforcement revenue each year. the meeting we held in 2010 was to train 2600 managers from 350 offices across the country. we needed to insure that they had the tools to lead their employees and adapt to major changes that were occurring. at the time of this meeting, almost 30% of our managers were new or had only been managers within a two-year period. another focus of the meeting was employee safety. there had been a substantial increase in the number of security threats against employees of the internal revenue service. i think it is important to point out that in carrying out this 2010 meeting, we followed irs and government procedures that were in place at the time. the treasury inspector general's office review found no instances of fraud but we're now in a very different environment and

there are many new procedures in place at the irs governing training and travel, in hindsight many of the expenses that were incurred in this 2010 conference should have been more closely scrutinized or not incurred at all. and were not the best use of taxpayer dollars. give the new procedures and restrictions in spending, on spending, we would not hold this same type of meeting today. mr. chairman, that ends my statement and i would be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you, mr. fink. i need to announce for both the witnesses and the folks on the dais we expect votes momentarily. it will be a long series of votes. we could be gone for up to an hour. so, i would ask the witnesses, we'll make room available back there for you. we will come back

immediately --. martha: we'll come out of this for just a moment here. let me give you some of the highlights. that was mr. firries fink who is a career employee with the irs. he basically said they needed to spend $38 million on conferences in one year because they had to get all their employees up to speed because there was a lot changing at irs and needed to make sure everybody was in the loop and understood the new programs and procedures they had. he also said they were concerned about employee security. there were threats irs agents. so everybody needed to get on planes to go to the hotels and get together and be told what the new procedures would be to protect their safety. the stuff that we are hearing some of which had been out there but to hear it brought forth in this congressional hearing about, you know, three hotels that were needed. presidential suites where, this is picture of the suites they were in. over $3,000 a night. they stayed multiple nights. sometimes exceeding the amount of days that the meetings were held for. bill: they requested the upgrades. martha: they requested the upgrades which i say to you,

if the irs says to you and you're hotel we like an upgrade. will you tell the irs, i don't think so. that is not really going to happen. bill: back in that hearing now. darrell issa. >> it was comped by the hotel after a large bidding on taking virtually every room in the hotel and i assure you the room rates for our guests were below what the irs paid in that hotel. having said that, could we go to the video. and then we'll begin with the questioning. mr. cummings and i both seen it enough but for some who have not seen i want to get it into the record. this is a short clip. it won't be the whole thing. but it set as tone. >> lacy, i know you haven't seen this >> get ready for anaheim. stay in line. ♪ . >> where is that?

>> attempting to modulate the frequency now. lack of skilled tax leaders resulted in widespread confusion. uninformed taxpayers, noncompliance. i'm afraid without a wealth of skilled leaders anarchy is spreading across the planet like a virus. >> shall i wear a cap to cover my ears, captain? >> no you can fly. ♪ . [inaudible] >> i'm sure many more will watch that, and some will laugh. my questions are, you know, what a surprise, and i will start with mr. fink. what were you thinking? were you thinking this will never be seen? or were you thinking how will this look when it is seen? >> mr. chairman.

>> please speak close to the mic. we can't hear. >> mr. chairman? >> you're not on. >> mr. chairman, those videos were, at that time, they were made were an attempt to, in a well-intentioned way to use humor, "star trek" video to open the conference. the dance video was used to close the conference. it they would not occur today based upon all the guidelines that exist and frankly, they were not appropriate at that time either, mr. chairman. and, the fact of the matter is, it's embarrassing and, i apologize. those videos, i know in the inspector general's report, there is not a clear delineation of the cost of both the videos butter this embarrassing and, i regret the fact that they were made. >> let me do a follow-up

question because, one of the most concerning part of the ig's report is, it appears as though at the irs both in this and other cases, we can't count on proper accounting of what money is spent on what. there were at least many cases in which people traveled for conferences during this entire period, as far as i know today, in which if they simply bill it as travel and not as conference travel, then it won't be seen as conference travel. how are we to know, and obviously without receipts, and even a missing painting, how are we to know these kinds of changes have occurred to where there's a auditable train of where money was spent? >> mr. chairman, to respond to that question of course, it is already been spoken that there's been many changes at the irs. one of the changes at the internal revenue service is around the tracking of expenses, around conferences,

meetings and training for the particular conference in anaheim, we were only able to track 90% of the costs. there's a variety of reasons that the other 10% were not accurately tracked. it is because people did not use the tracking code that was in place. also that folks were on other travel, visiting offices, doing things of that nature. did not use the conference tracking code. and may have charged their expenses to another code, for another business purpose. >> well, you know, the reason i asked that is, is twofold. first of all, if i did it as a business and thus couldn't account for receipts, wouldn't your inspectors say, disallowed? >> mr. chairman, yes, our auditors would look at records. they do have, some discretion as far as reasonableness of the records that are submitted but we take very seriously the role we occupy in

insuring that people have the appropriate business records. this here example that you have provided, we only did have 90% of the information as far as the expenditures. >> now if, if i were to have local folks get hotel rooms and meals and so on, and not issue a w-2, i made a fairly serious allegation as a layman. i'm not saying that it's the law exactly, but i could characterize it as tax evasion. if a company didn't do it and the employees, particularly let's just say they're accountants and very knowledgeable of the law, didn't do it, there were no w-2s, no 1099s, essentially no accountability for the revenue that is supposed to be taxed what would you do in that case? >> we, in that case, mr. chairman, as pointed out in the inspector general's report, you have to look at each situation case-by-case and in that particular

situation you would look at the individual facts that existed in that situation. in the matter that you're referring to here is, we now have issued w-2s to all of what we characterize as being local travelers after it was brought to our attention by the inspector general in the report that we had not appropriately accounted for all the local travelers, sir. >> well, i appreciate that. mr. kuntz, i guess i will characterize it to you. it was not in the tax year in which it was earned. so the employees did not voluntarily file as far as we know. i know that is not available to the public but the employees didn't take it on themselves, knowledgeable people, about taxes to say, oh, i've got to pay taxes on this the employer did not issue the required tax statement to itself, if you will. i characterized it as tax evasion because it can't just be swept under the rug. these were knowledgeable parties on both sides, weren't they? >> yes. the irs did not issue w-2s.

in fact we found seven people they didn't identify that were local that actually traveled. those would have been some of the ones that didn't get w-2s. >> i will close with one quick question. not only do we have votes but i want to be sensetive with the time. i've worked we event planners. whether it was an event planner inside the irs which it should have been or ones that were hired, there does seem to be a little sleight of hand. they received a commission based on the more that was spent, the more they received and apparently they, as i understand from your report, they got free rooms for fam trips, familiarization trips while irs employees paid for the rooms, again, as far as i can tell, that increased their commissions while lowering their unreimbursable costs, is that roughly right. >> that would be right. irs received 10 comp rooms per night. most upgrade rooms the irs had paid 135 per diem rate

for. bill: we are watching this. we have to take some commercials too. we'll keep close eye. one of the points about faris fink called it embarrassing and regretting. that is the first public comment we heard from him on that. this whole idea 90% of the costs of conventions being tracked which left 10% outstanding and darrell issa phrase of the morning so far on behalf of the irs, he calls that tax evasion. more testimony coming up in minutes, martha. martha: we'll be back to you. meanwhile u.s. attorney general eric holder is also held heading back to the capitol. he too will testify before a senate committee. we'll take you there live. bill: is the nsa tracking you and your phone calls. we'll talk to a former deputy direct are to have the nsa about the reports that agency is collecting millions and millions of american phone records. why he says this is a, needle in a haystack? [ bell dings ]

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bill: just listening during the commercial break. this is flat-out embarrassing for the irs. it is just one after the other after the other. we'll bring you highlights as we get them here and headlines from the hearing as that continues. there is other news to get to breaking now, martha. martha: a new bombshell that could be devastating for the obama administration has also surfaced this morning. the white house is is on defense following a report that the national security agency is collecting a massive number of phone records in the tens of millions of ordinary americans. watching the number that is calling out to the number that is calling in on your phone records. the white house says such information is quote, a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats. but while defending the practice they would not confirm if the nsa had asked verizon which is the phone company in question here, to hand over all the customer information. the four-page court order reportedly requested details on calls including how long they were. when and where the calls were made to and from. all of this, on a dali

basis. that's a lot of information. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge is live in washington on this. catherine what does the court order tell us what is happening here? >> reporter: this court order first obtained by "the guardian", a british newspaper, shows the fbi which is under the authority of the eric holder's justice department was given sweeping authority to collect phone records of verizon of all americans inside the u.s. who use the service over a 3-month period beginning in mid-april. the order reads in part, quote, all call detae tail records for telephone, meta data created by verizon for communications one, between the united states and abroad, or two, wholly within the united states including local telephone calls. the court order allows for the collection of so-called metadata. this is phone logs, length of calls. even the geographic location of the caller is tracked through the cell phone transmitter towers. critics say when this information is analyzed.

it is actually far more intrusive than listening in on the could not sent of the calls themselves because this metadata tracks the personal social network in this country. leading democrats in the senate were already sounding the alarm even before the order became public. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. >> it does not? >> not wittingly. there are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps collect but not wittingly. >> reporter: a recent fox news investigation pushed head of the national security agency, also known as the nsa to explain whether they hold the records of american citizens? that idea was dismissed at time as completely inconsistent with the nsa's mandate. martha: wow that is pretty incredible. >> we don't hold data on

u.s. citizens. let me go back to the mission nsa does. foreign intelligence. with a focus on counterterrorism. that's our mission. it is to protect this country from things like 9/11. >> reporter: verizon had no comment for fox news this morning. we're in the process of trying to determine whether other u.s. phone carriers are subject to a similar order, martha? martha: that is something. looking at those quotes that you just had us watch, catherine, those people will have many so questions to answer about all of that. do we know what the nature of this search was? do we have any information on that? what has the reaction been to this? >> reporter: well, i would draw attention to the timing. the order came about a week after the boston marathon bombing and we're trying to determine if there was any kind of connection. that is unknown at this time but the timing does seem somewhat significant. this morning there is universal condemn nation of the move from civil liberties group who are calling a violation of the

first and fourth amendments. aclu issuing a statement that reads in part quote, it is beyond orwellian and it provides further evidence to the extent basic democratic rights are being surrendered in secret, to the demands of unaccountable intelligence agencies. even former vice president al gore tweeted this morning, in the digital era privacy must be a priority. is it just me or is secret blanket surveilance obscenely outrageous? a leading republican told fox he plainly wants more information before casting judgment on the program. >> i don't mind verizon turning over records to the government if the government is going to make sure that they try to match up a known terrorist phone with somebody in the united states. i don't think you're talking to terrorists. i know you're not. i know i'm not. so we don't have anything to worry about. >> reporter: as you mentioned the attorney general is on the hill within the hour on a separate subject but he is likely to take questions on

this investigation. martha? martha: catherine, you had an opportunity to see where some of this data is collected. >> reporter: yes, as part of a special for fox news reporting, your secret's out, just broadcast within the last couple of months we went to utah and the utah data center. this is like a giant thumb drive storage facility for the nsa in the high desert. we were not allowed access or to speak to anyone there. we hired a helicopter to give you a bird's-eye view. this is a mammoth facility. the published reports indicate it can hold five zeta bytes of data. one zeta byte is equivalent to data held in 62 billion iphone 5s. martha: wow. >> reporter: critics say abilita really creates a situation with one step that you can have what people have ultimately called, the surveillance state here in this country, martha. martha: a lot of other questions raises this morning. catherine, thank you. bill: a massive facility in utah, isn't it? this is a massive question for the irs, what were you

thinking? that was darrell issa's opening question in this hearing. we'll take you back there live in a minute. >> the $4 million conference in anaheim -- what makes your family smile? backflips and cartwheels. love, warmth. here, try this. backflips and camm, ok!s. ching! i like the fact that there's lots of different tastes going on. mmmm! breakfast i'm very impressed. this is a great cereal! honey bunches of oats. i hear you crunching.

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>> it is highly unlikely that will satisfactory republicans. here is what peter king had to say. >> i don't want to speak for him

but i think certainly eric holder leaves himself open to a subpoena and charges of contempt of congress. i mean, he 0 owes it to the commit he, he owes it to congress. he is going to lose all credibility. as it is he's lost much of it if he tries to hide behind a subordinate. bill: what are you hearing from his supporters, shannon? what do they say? >> they say there is no inconsistency in his testimony he gave on may 15th that he never heard of potential prosecution of the press for leaking information because there was never any prosecution of our colleague james rosen. they say he has nothing wrong, they are satisfied with the explanation from the justice department. here is congressman hank johnson who continues to support eric holder. >> i don't think he's done anything that would cause me to want him to make his exit. >> and the white house stands firmly with him publicly as

well. he says he's not going anywhere, about i will. bill: shannon bream, washington bureau, thank you. martha: plus a house hearing into $50 million in lavish spending at the i.r.s. the details of this are just going to blow your mind. they are in recess right now, but they'll be back shortly. moments ago chairman darrell issa grilled several of the i.r.s. officials about how help they used your taxpayer dollars for their own perk stkphr-s awful the employees in our sample got full per diem of $71 per day. there was nothing wrong with that according to federal travel regulations. >> it just smells real bad.

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bill: breaking news the building collapse that occurred 24 hours ago, still 16 people unacted for. this is the mayor in philly, this is michael nutter. >> in the sense of respect and humanity for the families we would like to try to prevent family members from learning the fate of one of their loved ones from news media as opposed to another family member. we plan to -- we do plan to release the names of the victims pretty much at the close of business today. we have not yet figured out if we are having another full briefing, although we very well may. if we do we'll release the names

toward the tail end of today. but i would just ask if you can hold on for a little while to try -- i mean whatever is out there is already out there, i understand that, but if you can hold off for the rest of the day we'll give you that information and then you'll have it. but -- bill: a remarkable story. six people dead, 16 people unaccount egd for. unaccounted for. they pulled someone out alive last night. that is the salvation thrift store. that is mayor michael nut tere today. martha: we want to get you back to washington for the explosive back and forth with the i.r.s. and the $50 million spent on 200 conferences and the questions and the responses in this have been incredible this morning. i want to show you this from ranking member elijah cummings who blasted i.r.s. officials moments ago. watch this. >> i live in a block where most people don't even make $50,000 a

year. but yet and still we can produce a video that has no redeeming value, none, and spend taxpayers' hard earned dollars for that. and then there was that line dance. and so i say we can do better, but guess what, the money that was spent on that, that is my money. that's the lady who got the early bus this morning, that's her money. the one who makes $35,000, her, the gentleman up the street from me that makes $45,000 hauling trash, that is their money. martha: i don't think it can be said better than that. i mean that is the question here, it's the larger question

in so many of these stories we have covered, the gsa scandal as well with the amount of money that is being spent, that is my money said elijah cummings, that's the lady up the street, that is the man down the street, that is their money and mr. fink sat there at the table, he apologized earlier in the hearings saying what we did was wrong, we wouldn't do it again today, but my goodness, i mean what a state we are in with this hearing, and i guessing the only good thing, bill is that we are having a hearing, that it's getting out there, that people are tab being about it and we're shining some light on it. bill: what is clear is that if you give them the money they will spend it. martha: of course. bill: they are not turning it back in. watch that hearing, it continues. there is more breaking news. one of our top stories this morning the white house defending its right to seize your phone records. reports of a secret government program monitoring the calls of tens of millions of americans. cedric leighton is a former deputy director of the national security agency and joint chief

of staff intelligence officer. thank you for your time here. good morning. can you explain why this would be necessary. >> sure, good morning, bill, basically what we're looking at here is the way to go through a whole bunch of information very, very quickly, and in this day and age of meta data and going through many, many reams of information there are information processors, information culling processes that nsa uses that go into finding out who is talking to whom, why they are talking to them, and how long they are talking to them and that basically was the gist of the court order that the guardian found earlier. bill: are you okay with this? should we be okay with this? >> it depend. i am okay with the basic idea of going after folks who are connected to terrorist groups and i think most americans are okay with that. what you're looking at, though, is a lot of data and it requires a lot of good control mechanisms put in place for that -- the handling of that data. so when you're looking at these kind of control mechanisms i

will tell you having worked at nsa and associated agencies for quite some time there are a lot of controls in place for this kind of information. and if the controls are followed, if the rules are followed then there should not be that much of a problem with it. but, you have to be very careful and you have to be very careful that the rules not only stay the same, or are improved from a civil liberties standpoint, but that they also are followed to a tee by everybody involved in the collection process. bill: to give us a sense of the information they are gathering, what is it? is it your name, address, phone number, the content of your conversation? what is it? >> it is everything except for the content of the conversation. everything you described from the phone number, to your name, possibly the address or your location if you're talking on a cellphone. those are the kinds of things that could be collected potentially under this court order. now, having said that, there is so much that goes into this that you really don't have time when you're an agency like nsa to

listen in on everybody's conversation and you only listen in on those that you have a specific warrant for, or have reason to believe that they are engaged in terrorist activities. so, that's how it's supposed to work, and it's not tkhao designed to be intrusive in terms of the actual conversation, but as you and i both know there is a lot that can be gleaned from meta data and things like phone numbers and location cal data. bill: just verizon here 121 million customers in the first quarter, that is what they listed for their customer base here. you had 98 million wireless customers, 11 million residential phone lines h10000000 commercial lines. can you cite a case where a terrorist was caught and stopped through this type of surveillance? >> i can tell you that this type of surveillance was very important in wrapping up some of the loose ends from the boston bombing, and i can also tell you that many of the terrorists that we were able to pick up in

relation to 9/11 were either caught here in the united states or overseas. for example, khalid shaikh mohammed was a case in which some type of information similar to this was used, other cases involved that, most of them are still classified. the basic idea is it's been extensively used and very, very useful if thwarting a whole bunch of terrorist attacks. bill: you can clearly understand, i apologize for the interruption, how people would think this is invasive into my life and this should not be happening. it went into effect at the end of april. it's still in effect now. it goes until july 19th. should we know that? >> well, you know, when it looks -- when you look at the types of information that are gathered, sometimes it's important to not reveal your hand when you are gathering this type of information because people will then switch to let's say another cellp carrier if they are terrorists that are planning to do something, that is a possible rean to avoid

publicizing it. another thing is that this actually has a lot of historic precedence going all the way back to world war ii when you look at what was done with western union and telegrams, the government intercepted a lot of that information not only during world war ii but in the run up to world war ii. there is some historic precedence for it. we have to make sure our lawyers and procedures meet the requirements much the digital age. bill: indeed we do. it's a changing time out there as you well know. >> absolutely, bill. bill: it's good to get your insight. we'll be in touch with you to find out what we need to know good this. thank you. martha: critics are outraged after a msnbs host says republicans are using the letters i.r.s. as a code forays sis him, we'll explain what this is all about coming up. plus -- >> are you tkp-g to throare you going to throw rocks? who [screaming]

bill: that is some danger on the job. why would that woman send her pit bulls after that reporter? we will tell you in minutes. [ male announcer ] running out of steam? ♪ now you can give yourself a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle. these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one.

bill: you are about to see a news crew become the story. rhode island this is. the woman who lives at this home of is the mother of a shooting victim. she did not want to do an interview, and then sics the

dogs on the crew. two pit bulls chased the reporter down the street biting her arm, scratching her legs. the hone owner of the dogs later arrested. the reporter got a tetanus shot. she is said to be okay. martha: that is a scary video. bill: rhode islanders. knock on your door, don't want to talk, go film somebody else. martha: which is fine, but move along. there is some new controversy today after msnbc host martin beshear says republicans are using the i.r.s. targeting scandal as another excuse to bash president obama but he really goes further than that. watch this. >> despite the complete lack of any evidence linking the president to the targeting of tea party groups republicans are using it as their latest weapon in the war against the black man in the white house. martha: that's where we're at apparently in this dialogue. doug schoen joins me now former

adviser to president bill clinton and monica crowley radio talk show host, both are fox news contributors. what do you make of that? >> it's horrific, martha, you don't have to be a democrat or republican to call it horrific. to interject race into the process when the question is what did the i.r.s. do, why did they do it, and most importantly what role did the white house have in this? to talk about targeting the black man in the white house, i mean my skin is crawling, martha. it's abhorrent. martha: it's such a cheap argument, really, and it undercuts i guess martin beshear is fine with all of the stuff we are learning about the i.r.s., monica crowley. i bet he's fine wit with elijah cummings talking about using your money, my money and everybody else's money to buy these lavish conferences, i guess he's okay with that. >> he can't argue on the merits,

he has to go to the far left which is ration division. every time you think the left has jumped the shark they go one better or worse depending how you look at it. it is actually worse than doug says, it's more destructive. whenever you inject race where it doesn't pwhopbg and ha belong and has no place you're contributing to a very ka row sieve aspect of what is happening to our country. one of our big guiding principles here in america is out of many, one, what the left always tries to do is divide in order to conquer so that they can score political points and advance their agenda. it's so destructive and it's so despicable. martha: i under what you're saying. doug, when you look at the heart of the i.r.s. matter which he says is being used by the republicans to give a hard time to the black man in the white house as he puts it, i mean, at the heart of this i.r.s. matter are issues as monica says that really matter to all americans, i mean democrats, typically, you would imagine would be extremely

concerned about this. you know, sort of indiscriminate use of i.r.s. power to shutout a voice in this country. am i right? >> of course you're right. andee high gentleman cummings comments just now reflect that. and this is an issue that has nothing to do with race it has to do with what happened. specifically we now know that deputy campaign manager stephanie cutter of the obama campaign met in the white house with then i.r.s. commissioner douglas shulman os sentence pl to talk about the implementation of obamacare but there are rule questions for stephanie cutter and mr. shulman what was discussed and why was a campaign official in talks with the i.r.s. martha: that would be a question that anybody would be interested to find the answer to. why was doug shulman there 157 times. you don't have to waste your time on television talking about

things that don't matter and are irrelevant when issues like that are staring you in the face. >> doug raises the question about stephanie cutter she is a main political operative for barack obama. at the time of the i.r.s. meetings that she blurted out she was sitting in on her main job was making sure that the incumbent president got reelected. what we are seeing now is that all of this i.r.s. harassment and intimidation had a material effect on not one but two election cycles, 2010 and 2012. what was she doing in these meetings? these are the kind of questions that martin beshear and others should be asking. when they can't deal in the reality and they don't want to deal with facts, martha they go to the refuge of a skoupbd tkr sco u.n. dral which is race. bill: eric holder is on the hill. a hearing beginnings in matter of moments. we'll watch that. this suv p*eups a victim under a running vehicle. why police say it happened in the first place. [ larry ] younow throughout history,

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martha: well it looks like the reaction to the jobs market report that came out this morning a bit who he hum on wall street down about 3 and change at 14,900. down about 400 points over the past couple of weeks. we'll keep an eye on it. labor department reported 346,000 americans filed for unemployment claims last week. a decent number, not a big reaction on wall street. bill: monthly number tomorrow. martha: you bet. bill: that will be a big day. deadly protests now, demonstrators facing off with the police, a 7th day in turkey. at least three dead, thousands hurt. amy kellogg watching that from london now. amy. >> reporter: hi, bill, the prime minister seems to have moderated his tone a bit, he's gone from referring to the protestors, bill as looters to acknowledging

that some of them do in fact have environmental concerns. he's also talking about some of them as being terrorists. now as you mention mentioned three people killed including a police officer who fell over and overpass while chasing protestors. 4,000 injured. a week of these protests, and what people are really waiting for now is an apology from the prime minister, it's not enough for them to hear from members of his party or deputies. they want a full on apology for the heavy-handed tactics of the police. in fact when the prime minister spoke slightly moderating his tone from tunis today where he was meeting with a counterpart people were listening and the markets dropped right away in turkey because people wanted more, bill. bill: how did this all start? what started it? >> reporter: started when the prime minister announced plans to commercially develop the last green portion of the storied taxin square in istanbul.

it turned into a massive show of unhappiness with what many see as the prime minister's increasingly a authoritarian style, preaching to people how they should live. he is an islamist prime minister. people have known that since 2002. they have been elect being him time and again. in the last month or so there were a bunch of bills and discussion that came to the floor about family planning, public behavior, about the sale of alcohol, so people sort of erupted into this anger about all of this. it came together at one point, bill, and as you see it is continuing for a week now. bill: amy, thanks. watching that from london. martha: back in washington eric holder is back on capitol hill this morning about to testify before a senate committee. how he is responding to the allegations of spying on reporters. i'm over the hill.

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martha: look at this glass flew everywhere as this suv slammed into a store. watch this video. the car pinned a woman to the ground, a 78-year-old was behind the wheel. arizona police say that the driver hit the gas pedal instead of the brake. four people taken to the hospital, two women suffered serious injuries in all of this. that is a tough situation all around. bill: that woman goes in the store and then she's followed. this comes the suv. actually the suv was already

inside >> that's right. bill: doing some shopping. we've got to run, -frbg. , everybody. we'll let you know the outcome of the i.r.s. hearings. martha: big stuff going on on capitol hill. we will be back tomorrow. "happening now" starts right now. we'll see you then, folks. 4. >> reporter: right now brand-new stories and breaking news. >> attorney general eric holder insisting he will not step down despite increasing calls for him to resign. he's about to testify before a u.s. senate committee and the scandal surrounding the white house will surely come up. plus, what went on behind closed doors during the jodi arias murder trial, newly unsealed documents detailing what jurors were asking as they were deciding whether the convicted killer should live or die. plus, caught on videotape an out of control driver careens across four lanes of a highway and crashes into a taco bell at lunchtime. it's all happening now.