>>. >> arthel: thanks for letting me hang out. >> jon: it's great to have you here. thank you for joining us. >> arthel: happening now, with megyn kelly. hi,! >> megyn: new revelations about the federal government's spying on our phone linings and even online activity. president himself weighing in on those matters. welcome to america live. i'm megyn kelly. in the past 24 hours the data monitoring goes much further than previously reported and it's been going on for years. nsa vast data gathering operation includes verizon customers that was revealed but sprint, nextel and at&t and others. we understand the nsa is also gaining access to purchase credit card companies, although reports

are not naming which companies just yet. then there is this, the feds are tapping directly into central servers in the top internet companies, goog, facebook, skype and the rest, screening people's emails, video chats, photos and documents. those companies deny it. we've confirmed it, however, and there is a question why there is that discrepancy. one source telling the "washington post", quote, they quite literally watch your idea form as you type. moments ago president obama addressed the controversy notably he did not deny the existence of these programs. he just tried to qualify what it is the government is doing. listen. >> what the intelligence community is doing is looking at phone numbers

and durations of calls. they are not looking at people's names and they are not looking at content. i with respect to the internet, emails, this does not apply to u.s. citizens and does not apply to people living in the united states. if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we're abiding by the constitution and rule of law, we're going to have some problems here. >> megyn: doug mckelway live at the white house. >> reporter: if this is the first time we heard from the president since the story broke the data mining calling your terrorists from yemen or olgd a pidz from papa john's. they are trying to reach meta data.

it's complex term but suffice it's about data about data. he want to reassure americans that they are not listening your phone calls or reading your emails or viewing the web pages that you are viewing. >> nobody is listening to the content of people's phone calls. this program, by the way, is fully overseen not just by congress but by the fisa courts. a court especially put together to evaluate classified programs to make sure that the executive branch or government is not abuse them and it's being carried out consistent with the constitution and rule of law. >> reporter: the president has plenty of support in that view. chairman of the congressional intelligence committee. this is mike rogers talking about the real value of this program. >> within the last few

years, this program was used to stop a terrorist attack in the united states. we know that. >> reporter: but the author of the patriot act, congressman james sensenbrenner has deep concerns about that. >> i authored the patriot act to try to get at the bad guys and getting at the bad guys without getting the good people having their privacy jeopardized. i thought fought with the bush administration and obama administration and i thought i was able to do something that was merely drastic but any law can be abused. >> reporter: others in congress are much more critical. rand paul issued a statement that read in part, just when you think it can't get any worse under this president. this is an all-out assault on the constitution. a lot of key questions for

members of congress. did the obama administration implementation of the patriot act go farther than the bush administration did? how did the two administrations differ in the implementation? that key question. >> megyn: thank you, sir. a lot of the complaints from the spying scandal have come from the left. media and politicians alike. look at the huffington post on the home page. george w. obama. they did a good job of merging the two. front page of politico, george w. bush's fourth term and scathing editorial from the "new york times" saying the administration has lost all credibility. later it would soften the tone to limit it to this issue. chris is fox news

contributor. those on the left started to lead the frank in the wake of the a.p. spying and the irs scandal that had both republicans and democrats unhappy about that. they started to go. they started to go and be more skeptical of this president and his honesty according to the polls. now, when you look at it, it's as if george bush is back in office the way they are writing about barack obama. >> i guess it had to be much more extreme under george w. bush to take such umbrage but we are there now. we have reached that point. president said it as well as anybody could in that

quasi press conference, you don't trust the legislative branch and judiciary or justice department, then we're going to have problems. the time has come. we do have problems because the left, the people who should be sticking with the president to the end, the people who elected him when he was running as a civil libertarian. you are telling us it's okay to search your data as long as you are not eavesdropping on our calls, as long as you are not scanning, it's okay to go through our data without telling us. as he said we have big problems. >> megyn: what i said when introducing doug mckelway, he didn't seem to deny what was out there. big report yesterday morning they are collecting phone records for hundreds of millions of persons americans. no one was reporting they

were listening to the phone conversations. that was not an accusation that was being levied yesterday by anybody that read the initial reports. it wasn't they were listening but they were reviewing phone records where you were, when you had them, who you called and so on, he didn't deny that. no one is listening to your phone calls -- we knew that. that is not the issue. the second thing is, "washington post" reporting they are monitoring our internet behavior and using google and youtube and skype. he didn't deny that either, we don't do it to americans or here in america. "washington post" in determining whether they are monitoring americans they only need a 51% certainty of foreign-ness. so still has big questions here? >> the president is paying a high price for cynicism. it's going to get higher

because if you think about this, the intentional misleading on the islamist raid on compound in benghazi libya. the changing narratives about who knew what about the targeting of the president's political enemies by the irs. what has taken place in the department of justice of targeting reporters, this rapid fire revelation about misleading, concealing and all of that comes just ahead of us finding out and getting a glimpse of the scope of how much we're being spied on by our own government. it's not a helpful time to then have the president come out and say, it's cool, don't worry about it. yes, we are looking at everything you do and credit card transactions and whom you are calling and what you are surfing on the web, but we're not doing anything wrong with that. this is hideous timing on it. even the long time

cheerleading the credibility is gone and the dream is too. >> megyn: last point i wanted to ask you, is the dream gone? the folks on the right never had the dream and didn't believe barack obama was going to be a different kind of politician, different kind of president, but a lot of left did believe he would be different and me meant those things he was not going to sacrifice our civil liberties in the name of security or safety. now, they find out it's george w. bush's fourth term -- it seems like a lot of folks on the left are waking up doing this today. >> the last staunch defenders of this president, i guarantee you will be republicans. you can take that one to the bank just as the war, ramped up the war in afghanistan, as he expedited the robot killing machines of the sky and drone program and all that stuff it was republicans who stuck with him.

it will be republicans on this one. he will lose his own party on this. >> megyn: fox news weather alert, we are tracking a developing story up and down the east coast. tropical storm andrea has brought multiple tornadoes in in florida. inches of rain, heavy winds and flooding. our chief meteorologist rick riechmuth is live today. >> a lot more rain headed across the mid-atlantic. in florida saw eight inches of rain and up in new england, four inches of rain and across some of this area. tornado concerns they continue, there is new tornado watch box in effect until 8:00 p.m. in eastern areas of caroline nas and potential for some tornado as they rotate up here. no tornado warnings and that good news.

winds are strong. winds gusting around the mid 40s. waves are very extreme. a little storm surge across areas of the outer banks and north carolina. this continues to move quickly. it will begin to transition from a tropical storm into just a regular rainmaker, typical nor'easter. do expected to see rain continue for areas of the mid-atlantic into the northeast throughout much of the evening and into early morning hours. big time radioing by the time we wake up in the morning and clear things out for the weekend. >> megyn: thank you. >> just ahead two views on the spying scandal and whether this is more of a government overreach or a life saving necessity. a reporter who broke the story of a washington based lawyer for the irs, his connections and reports he is slid getting ready to retire.

and one student's decision to replace a speech with the lord's prayer. he is here live. [ male announcer ] running out of steam? ♪ now you can give yourself a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle.

♪ ♪ >> megyn: tracking new developments on the irs targeting conservative groups and reports that irs officials in washington were calling the shots on this effort. rather than the so-called rogue agents out of cincinnati who some in the administration want us to believe orchestrated the whole thing. reporting a man called carter hull is now retiring. washington d.c. based irs official that are now saying oversaw at least in part singling out of the tea party groups. one irs employee calling this man a micromanager saying you couldn't act in

a tax exempt matter without carter knowing about it. and media editor for the national review. great report and you can check it out at national review.com. let's talk turkey because we have been told repeatedly, two rogue meetings that cincinnati who did this. there is not a connection to washington or any larger faction so who is carter hull, where had s he based? >> we heard that explanation this is a couple of rogue agents from the obama administration, from the top officials in the irs and some democratic lawmakers. that now i think has been exploded. this was managed from washington, d.c. from the outset. we at national review reported two weeks ago now that what is known as the technical office in washington, d.c. which is a group of lawyers, was

closely involved in handling these cases from the outset, meaning in march of 2010. carter hull is one of those lawyers that was handling these cases. he was the first lawyer to take a look at these tea party cases. we know from transcripts of interviews with the hull's oversight committee he begin looking at the cases. the reason employees in cincinnati even began screening for tea party cases was due to requests from washington. >> megyn: what is his relationship to other the players in this. they have put a chart totaling involved in this and they show a woman named cindy thomas. what relationship between send di thomas and carter hull? >> she would have been a different office. she was overseeing exempt

organizations. she answered to holly poz who then answered to lois lerner. these lawyers are in washington, d.c. and they provide guidance, oversight, direction to the cincinnati office. my sources in cincinnati say they are, employees in the cincinnati office are incredibly upset with cindy thomas which is the top woman in cincinnati for not defending them against the claims of people like lois lerner and like former commissioner doug shulman and steven miller that there were rogue agents in cincinnati. >> megyn: they know they weren't rogue and they were doing what they were told to do. and you reference the house oversight committee, one woman came out and said, i was essentially a front person. i had no autonomy to act on

applications without carter hull's influence or input. she puts it squarely on him. the folks are being thrown under the bus don't appear to be that comfortable? >> and he went on to say she looked for a job in 2010 because she was so uncomfortable what she was being told to do from people in washington. the other thing that is important is to take a step back, carter hull is not a rogue agents. he was worn of the few lawyers that was charged with providing guidance and as national review has reported, these lawyers in washington were rubber-stamping the questionnaires that were sent to tea party groups and writing some of the questions. that is where the backlog you hear about came from. there was all these cases were going to washington and agents in cincinnati were waiting on their

verdict. there it wasn't just carter hull. they had managers and those managers a managers. >> megyn: and hofacre speaks to that too saying, i quote, all i remember thinking is this a ridiculous. this is the subject of delay because at the same time you are getting calls from irate taxpayers. even if a decision is not favorable they deserve some kind of treatment and timeliness. carter is retiring. l her sler on paid leave. two guys at the top have been forced to leave a little early but no accountability for the actual people implementing the program. >> that is where we look at the house oversight committee. they are conducting a very careful investigation. they are going from bottom to top. they are starting with the lowest level people and will get to the top, i know from sources there that they are trying to figure out where did that order come from. >> megyn: thank you very

much eliana. >> president's critics are pointing to the man that overreach spy operation in the history. we'll take a look at past and present barack obama.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> molly: a report shows that employers are hiring in the jobs report. businesses added 175,000 jobs last month and unemployment rose to 7.6% but they say it's a sign that more americans are looking for work. the numbers are better than expected and they want to see hiring above 200,000

mark to put a real dent in the jobless rate. >> plus, a backlog veterans' claims up to crisis levels. almost 200 v.a. employers do nothing but work full time on union projects, a task that taxpayers are bank rolling. >> senator tom coburn and rob portman sent a letter demanding answers to why based on government documents, 188 v.a. workers were paid taxpayer funded salaries and benefits to do union work full time. government documents show v.a. nurses, pharmacists, psychologists, dental lab assistants and security guards hired to protect buildings like hospitals instead do union work full time the senators say. they call it troubling and it could, quote, compromise

the well-being of vets. undoubtedly impact veterans. it came at a time when joblessness among 18-24 veterans are s higher than the national average and homelessness among vets is still a problem. they say the president is still serious about cutting the backlog. the v.a. says it will respond to the letters and aggressively cutting the backlog, but do federal workers doing union work and get pay raises and bonuses and get to work at home? they are not allowed to strike and come pen signifies savings set by law and all federal workers doing full time union work at $156 million in 2011. that is up by 12% from the year prior. >> megyn: the president's critics are now the man that once campaigned on

overreach now sits on the wide spread spy operation in history. we'll look at the president's past position on spying and what we've learned over the last 48 hours and compare. the two barack obamas and disturbing video of an attack on a local news crew sparking a legal debate over personal freedom versus freedom of the press. when a homeowner this problems. >> why are you talking like this? >> then she second her two dogs on us. -- then she sicked her two dogs on us it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain.

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♪ ♪ >> when it comes to telephone calls, every member of congress has been briefed on this program. with respect to all these programs, the relevant intelligence committees are fully briefed on these programs. your dual elected representatives have been consistently informed on exactly what we're doing. >> megyn: that was president obama a short time ago addressing the controversial spying operation, targeting people's phone records and internet providers in searches, as well. he says congress and federal judges is well

aware of what is going on so if they have a problem they can raise their hand. president did not answer the question of how a man who campaigned so loudly against government overreach can now sit atop and defend the most sophisticated and widespread spy operation in history. here is some of the president's past remarks starting back in 2006. >> we need to find a way forward to make sure we can stop terrorists while protecting privacy and liberty of innocent americans. >>ly provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our constitution and our freedoms. >> as for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. >> megyn: the choice between our safety and our ideals. that was at his i nug raise

in 2009. joining me is alan colmes. just to bring the audience, they know and perspective on this, at the time he said things like in this when he was running for the office there were many that were running on the right, it sounds like great rhetoric but when you get the daily briefs you will see things very much the same as george w. bush, we have to keep this free from another terror attack. barack obama swore he was going to be the anti-george bush when it came to matters of national security. what happened to that then candidate barack obama? >> i don't know what he saw but i am quite disappointed about this. also the fact not only did we find out they are looking at phone records that verizon customer but what other companies?

we found out a day later, internet providers, google said we don't have any knowledge about this. how could that possibly be? if we can't trust them to be transparent and when they say, no one knows who you are talking to or content of television conversations and said limited amount of information they are getting, how can we trust them on that? civil liberties standpoint it's extremely disappointing. >> megyn: it's not at all what the left on mind when they put him in office. >> the thing is alan says she disappointed, but a lot of us knew he was duplicitous. he is doing whatever is practicable. even from the statement, i watched the entire news conference. president says, well all of this tracking of internet activity is only on foreign citizens. if you read into the

details of the program you find out they are literally 51% certain that they are only tracking foreign individuals. they are supposed to use filters so americans don't get caught up in it but the filters don't work very well so americans will still be ensnared in it. president says we're only tracking foreigners, it's pretty frightening he is will wilg to be this duplicitous and accept from the president that we know what is going on and government is on top of it that a government that doesn't know what happened in benghazi or why. they don't know what is going on in their own irs but they know what is exactly going on -- i don't believe that. >> megyn: it couldn't be coming at a worse time. i do think when we heard him today, this is the president earlier today. he says, i do think it is important to recognize you can't have hundred percent security and also then have

hundred percent privacy and zero inconvenience. we're going to have make choices as a society. of course, that is true. that is so different from the message we heard from him when he was running? >> i think what the right, make a mistake and say about benghazi and everything else and name calling and calling him duplicitous and it's overreach by those who have been his enemies since he got into office. we can do critical thinking and look at the things he may have done right and critical in hinges like this. >> megyn: i think it's the erosion of trust what the polls show. >> i think that is unfair. some of the same people that supported bush doing this, same policy that bush had are krublg when this president does the same thing, that is hypocritical. >> megyn: that is true.

>> all the indications are that this has exploded under poblt, it's been expanded dramatically. about being duplicitous, there is a reason people don't trust this man. look at any claims. i understand he got re-elected and he claimed healthcare would go down -- it's gone up on. the debt ceiling being raised. >> megyn: let me jump in. i don't want to get in a policy debate about five years' policy. your point alan, you look at the polls that were taken in late may, couple months earlier, there has been a 20-point swing. now it's down to dead even. that is based on what we have seen over the past couple months. yes, he was re-elected but since then, there has been scandals in washington and administration, not barack obama personally but the administration has given a lot of reasons. >> when you hit the government it hits

everybody. this is what often happens in a second term. it's important to separate real scandals from some of the mud that has been thrown. >> megyn: is this is the last straw in the trust that existed between a lot of americans and this president to be a different kind of president to follow through on the promises he made, all the rhetoric about how bad george bush was and how he was like the furor but some on the left said that. they did. now, we have barack obama the huffington post has the two faces merged. >> the same things they called bush, it's all wrong to do that. >> i understand you don't like the name calling. this is an erosion of trust. these are real scandals. when americans realize

under this president's watch, we've got the irs targeting individual americans and groups that are expressing their views. when you have this stack of all these things that make us distrust the government more and the president's excuses i didn't know about it until he read about it in the newspaper. then we wants us to trust us when we find out phone conversations and internet is being tracked by some giant --. >> megyn: the president made two comments. his comments were off point. he set up a straw man. we're not listening to your phone calls. that wasn't the report. they are data mining our phone records. then he said we're not spying on records when it comes to internet use. that is not what the "washington post" report. they said the standard is too low. you require only 51% signs

of foreign high schoolness. does this president needs to come out? >> he needs to have a full news conference, talk about this fully. how can we trust they are only working within certain boundaries. he absolutely needs to address the american people. >> megyn: answer questions that will allow follow-ups when he doesn't answer the big question of the day. thank you both. god bless you, alan, i agree with you. >> megyn: we will ahead have two nsa whistleblowers, they worked there for 30 to 40 years. they will join leave what has been going on inside that agency. one valedictorian's decision to replace his speech the role of religion in the lives of students. up next, you'll meet this man.

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♪ ♪ >> megyn: weather alert affecting folks along the east coast. tropical storm andrea hitting hard. it's brought tornadoes in florida and severe weather warnings along the east coast. biggest threats are soaking rain, heavy winds and widespread flooding. we'll bring you more on that as we get it.

remarkable story out of south carolina. a valedictorian uses his address to send his school an epic message. video has gone viral. he tears up his pre-approved speech and reciting the lord's prayer. the crowd goes wild even drowning him out. look at here. [ applause ]

amen. [ cheers and applause ] >> megyn: this year's valedictorian and my guess now, great to see you. congratulations. >> good to see you too. >> megyn: what did it feel like when you did that they started cheering? >> you can't tell from the video, but ways in tears on the stage from joy. i didn't expect that. i thought a few would clap and it blew up. >> megyn: did you get the chills? >> had i goose bumps all over. >> megyn: and the people behind you, bug kill? >> they were clapping. the school board members and they didn't know what kind of outcome. >> megyn: had you to get them to pre-approve your speech at the school? >> yes. about two weeks before they came to me and they said,

it was required we don't talk about god or allah or any type of religion the speech at all. after a bunch of prayer and devotion, reading the bible i decided i felt it was necessary with everything going on from freedom from religion and contacting our school districts from wisconsin and trying to get prayers out of our schools altogether. >> megyn: that is group that is pushing to get no more prayer. school board meetings, commencement and they won, but you won in the end. >> i don't understand why a group like that, we are a community and strongly, we are for prayer and for god. we have no complaints to the district. it was only because the group from wisconsin contacted our district and said they were sending a letter of intent or a lawsuit. it was prior to the school board meeting that didn't

have anything to did with the inside of school. they decided to look over the entire plan altogether. >> megyn: they got rid of prayer from top to bottom? >> right. >> megyn: so you decided you were going to do this. what was the speech that you submitted? >> it was actually a speech that i presented to them. they were accepting of it. they said it was good do to to go. i thought i was going to there would not be a an issue. >> megyn: what did they say after you did it? >> they can't say within their boundaries. they are state employees. >> megyn: how about the students? >> the students were with me, they said it with me. it's quite amazing. >> megyn: they love the stance you took. it says something about the

country we live in right now it takes courage for you to recite the lord's prayer at a seminole moment in your life. it does now because you a whole group of people from stopping you saying that. and feedback of the students on the courage you took? >> yes. and message i'm getting from back home, they are saying how proud they are of me. if god didn't show up on saturday, none of this is would have happened. >> megyn: you are off to clemson? >> yes. >> just ahead, two views on what we are learning about the spying scandal and whether more government overreach or a life saving necessity. we'll walk you through on both sides. and winning in court, the family of sara monihan is fighting the clock in the search of a new lung for

sara. we'll have more after this. overmany discounts to thine customers! [old english accent] safe driver, multi-car, paid in full -- a most fulsome bounty indeed, lord jamie. thou cometh and we thy saveth! what are you doing? we doth offer so many discounts, we have some to spare. oh, you have any of those homeowners discounts? here we go. thank you. he took my shield, my lady. these are troubling times in the kingdom. more discounts than we knoweth what to do with. now that's progressive.

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use promo code planahead, and get 60 days of lifelock protection risk free. enjoy your vacation, knowing lifelock never takes one. ♪ ♪ >> megyn: developing right now. family of sara monihan who won the wait to get on the list for an adult lung has taken a turn for the worse. identical ruling to qualify a different child on the same hospital to get on the adult list. claudia joins us live from philadelphia. >> reporter: hi, good afternoon. this is the latest on sara. i interviewed her mom less than two hours ago. she said that sara has stabilized. they had a rough couple of nights. they were concerned about her health.

still no lung for her. but she has stabilized at this moment but it's a difficult situation as they wait minute by minute for a new lung. we can tell you a little boy at the same hospital. he is 11 years old. he actually had an older brother that died two years from cystic fibrosis. he died two years ago waiting for a lung, as well. javier is in a desperate situation and federal court judge in philadelphia ordered that he be placed on the adult waiting list for a lung, as well. so both children are waiting for a lung. they have different blood types so they won't be competing for the same lung but are waiting and are in critical condition at this moment. >> megyn: the leaks at nsa are raising questions whether the director of national intelligence lied directly to congress.

we'll show you the tape and what is the latest in the series of credibility challenges for the administration. we will investigate and show you what all these men said under oath and whether it's close to the truth. plus, a disturbing video of an attack on local news crew. we'll look at what happened when the owner and reporter went head to head in today's kelly's court. >> you guys throw rocks? [ bleep ]. >> wow! he can focus on his recovery. he doesn't have to worry so much about his mortgage, groceries, or even gas bills. kick! kick... feel it! feel it! feel it! nice work! ♪ you got it! you got it! yes! aflac's gonna help take care of his expenses. and us...we're gonna get him back in fighting shape. ♪ [ male announcer ] see what's happening behind the scenes

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♪ ♪ >> megyn: fox news alert. new fallout after president obama admits to widespread spying on regular americans in remarks about 90 minutes ago. brand-new hour. i'm megyn kelly. today president obama said a he welcomes debate over this. we'll do that now. national security agency is collecting data from calls from every american signed up to the major networks, verizon, sprinted and at&t. they have direct access to servers operated by the biggest tech companies, facebook, google, g-mail and skype and more. though the companies deny it. they can see emails, web searches, even credit card transactions being performed by various

millions of people suspected. he says the invasions of privacy is worth it to protect americans from terrorism. >> the modest encroachments on privacy that are involved in getting phone numbers or duration without a name attached and not looking at content, it was worth us doing. some other folks may have a different assessment of that. >> megyn: here is one of those folks, one of top nation's top scholars from george washington university and jonathan turley a great legal website that we use often. we thank you for being on here today. you've been an advocate of

civil liberties and you en a critic of george w. bush and of barack obama on this issue. your reaction to his defense of the program today? >> i thought was curious. i'm not too sure what questions he was answering. they are not the questions being posed. first of all that the notion that these programs are modest is rather laughable. what the government is creating are massive data banks that will effectively make transparent the communications and twists of citizens that nor the charged with any crime. if you look at the telephone companies they were demanding every single phone call made by every single citizen. it's the type of surveillance that was futuristic that was not technically possible but it is now. the question is being raised, how will this type of fish bowl society change not just our relationship to our government but who we are. do you feel that all of

your communications are being fed into a massive database that the government has access to. it's a major violation of privacy. i really astonished by the dismissive attitude of the president. >> megyn: he came out and said on two fronts, offered a defense. number one, we're not listening to the phone calls. we're just mining the records basically what your phone bill would show. number two, as far as the internet searches and emails and so on, we don't do that if you are an american citizen or if you are inside the united states of america. >> i thought that was particularly curious. the earlier surveillance program we learned about yesterday did involve communications inside the country, did involve sut citizens. he seemed completely unconnected from reality which is a dangerous thing when he is heading the executive branch of the united states. the other thing when he says i'm not looking or

we're not looking at the content of emails. that is not a power he has. it's not some striking a balance. he is not allowed to do that under the constitution. fourth amendment protects us from that type of surveillance. he needs a court order. to lift that is somehow a gesture towards citizens, he doesn't have the power to do it. >> megyn: i thought it was interesting, yesterday we heard the reports they are looking at our phone records. they've been doing it for seven years, dianne feinstein had confirmed. there was a question, are they actually looking at them and collecting them and reasonable suspicion that were involved in a potential terrorist activity then they look at them. that seemed to be where the administration was headed for a defense. they put out a statement the court allowed the data to be carried that the

position, inquiryed. we don't look at it. until we have reason to believe you are talking to terrorists. here is what the president said. he seemed to acknowledge they only way they go to the court again if they want to listen in on the phone call. this is soundbite number one. >> by sifting through the so-called meta data they may identify potential leads with respect to folks who might engage in terrorism. if these folks -- if the intelligence community actually wants to listen to a phone call, they have to go back to a federal judge just like they would in a criminal investigation. >> megyn: sounds like they are using it from a get go? >> it's a curious effort to make citizens comfortable constantly surveil who they are emailing, who they are

calling, how long -- it's astonishing effort. if it is successful, its real condemnation who the american people have become. framers of the constitution warned us, never to base government power on the assumption of the good motivations of our officials. you can't rely on that. you can't give them that power. what they are doing acquiring massive power in collection of the data. look, we just collect it and we look at it when we need to. that is hardly assurance. meta data there is a lot of privacy stuff there. >> megyn: you have been an outstanding for a long time. we'll have steve moore following you up in a minute. they wrote an editorial defending the program. one of the points is, this isn't new. this has been out in 2006 and u.s.a. today, from may

11, headline, nsa has massive database of american phone calls of them analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity and unveil the thing we're discussing. you went on tv and criticized it then. what is different what we learned then and what we have learned now? >> one of the biggest differences is that the government has acknowledged the existence of this program in a way they didn't do before. just last february the obama administration succeeded in blocking a lawsuit of journalists and civil liberties groups to try to challenge the legality of their surveillance program. they classified the evidence to make that case. when this came out they didn't hesitate to give that evidence, to confirm, yep, we do have the databases and we are engaging in that surveillance. so to the degree the government has acknowledged

it is different. we can have a debate in what we want for this country. is this the type of country we want to live in? do we want to create these databases that will be allowed citizens to be followed in realtime by their government. >> megyn: thank you very much. >> now to the other side of debate. steve moore, part of the editorial board of the "wall street journal." what are your thoughts? >> by the way, i have a great deal respect for jonathan, i am a civil libertarian and i think the big issue here is the balance between freedom and safety. that is really what we're debating here. now, jonathan said at the end there, what kind of country do we want to live in? that is great way to frame the issue. look, i believe that a lot of these techniques that are being used by our counter-terrorism units are actually working. we know they have foiled in

the past some terrorism incidents. what i would suggest is people to think about when we think about what kind of country do we want to live in? do we want to live in where schools are bound and shopping centers are bombed and like the world trade center. that is the kind of world we live in. this may deter those events from happening. >> megyn: what do you make of the fact it had been reported back in 2006. we looked back to say in the wake of the report. president bush did not acknowledge the problem but talked about how anything we do has been authorized by a court. trust us, we are going to protect the american people. now, the president comes out and acknowledged the program. >> i would say this is not the kind of thing that an administration and counter-terrorism effort would want to advertise. look, we don't want

terrorists to know that we are keeping track of this kind of information. so the fact it was top secret may make sense from the perspective of keeping us safe. one of the reasons i think people are very angry about this, what is going on with these other scandals. >> megyn: erosion of trust. let me ask you about the emails. that is content monitoring. if they are looking at emails, that the same as wiretap. that is watching and reading your communications. the president said, well, he didn't deny it, but we don't do it to americans. when you read report, in determining your american who they can do it to, they only need a 51% of foreign-ness. is that good enough? >> i'm not not a lawyer, i don't know what is permissible under the patriot act. i will say this. that program makes me nervous. government is spying on our

emails especially american citizens who are not suspects. it does circle around to the irs scandal because what we know from the irs scandal is the obama administration has been keeping enemies' lists, obviously of conservatives. that is one of the reasons you are seeing reaction from many of good friends in the conservative movement, maybe they are targeting us for audits, are they spying on our emails and listening in on phone conversations. >> megyn: we have testimony under oath from james clapper specifically denying that they ever did this. it was four months ago. they have been doing it for seven years. you talk about erosion of trust. >> that is good point. again, i'm not on lawyer but he may have a perjury problem. >> megyn: we're going to talk about it. >> what i want people to

really think about here is whether you believe if these kinds of counter-terrorism efforts are keeping us safe and preventing 500 or thousand people from being killed, is it worth it? that is the point we're trying to make in the editorial today. >> megyn: this is another program that has been outed and we heard rhetoric talking about how bad the leak was, question whether they are going to go after the leaker, as well. steve, what a situation, thank you so much for giving us your perspective. >> two nsa whistleblowers who warned about the spy programs for year, one guy was with the ngsa for 30 years and one guy 40, join us next and what is really going on at nsa. tropical storm andrea bringing tropical rain. we will go live to the carolinas with the bad weather just ahead.er ] trust calcium plus vitamin d

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♪ >> molly: soon national security agency whistleblowers who klifl have 70 years of experience join us with their thoughts on the matter. are former membef the nsa and retired in 2001. thank you for being mere. >> megyn: kirk let me start with you. first of all, would you say knew about all this activity that we learned about prior to today. did you know? >> no, i did not know. >> megyn: what was knew to you? >> the breadth of the collection to include what i would call innocent people, not suspicious people. >> megyn: how about you, bill, did you know? >> i had a pretty good idea. if you wanted, i could give you history of what has been going on. some of it is mixed up. what was exposed in 2006 was the telcom side of

house, public switch network to nsa. >> megyn: getting phone records. >> about three billion a day. that was just u.s. to u.s. internally. what they are talking about now is the program started in 2006, 2007 which involved the internet so the internet service providers. >> megyn: that takes it to whole other level. you are talking about monitoring content. it's one thing to look at phone records but actually reading emails the president says not of americans but 51% threshold of foreign-ness. how serious would they take of that. there is not a 51% threshold so we can't read it. >> let me correct a misconception. aggregated meta data can be more revealing than

content. it's very important to realize that when an entity collects information about you, that includes locations, transactions, credit card transactions, travel, plans, easy path, on and off toll ways all of that can be time luind to track you day to day to the point where people can get insight into your intentions and what you are going to do next. it is difficult to get that from content unless you exploit every piece and even then a lot of content is worthless. >> megyn: they seem to be saying don't worry because we're collecting on so many hundreds of millions of people, we're not going to track you, megyn kelly or you, kirk and bill, we are trying to look at general patterns. only when things get suspicious, if we need to go to a court and what you

shall actually saying. >> well, let me -- the content acquisition by nsa started at least by my time line as early as 2003. that goes back to mark china's court documentation of the nsa facility in san francisco where they had the merits hooked up to cyber optic lines inside the united states. those devices will collect all that data on the internet lines and forwarded it to nsa. one insight device takes ten gigabytes a second and it can present one-quarter million emails a second. so if you multiply that, you get an idea of how much collection capability of content has been going on since 2003.

>> megyn: they seem to be saying again, we're going to get it, but that doesn't mean we're going to use it against you. we are going to look at huge numbers and only if it's a suspicious pattern do we go to the next step. that goes to the next step. you worked there for decades. kirk, you tell me whether we can trust the folks that work at nsa not to misuse the information? >> there is nothing about unique that human beings that work at nsa that work at the irs or work at doj. this has been the fear of ruled people throughout the ages. we don't need to operate on a wink and a nod. we need protection in terms of software implementation to hide the identities of innocent people. we need to go back to obeying the fourth amendment, concept of

probable cause must be honored and can be without sacrificing anything in the ability to discover bad guys doing bad things. >> none of this was necessary from the very beginning. they chose to go to the dark side because that was their choice. plus, we had a built in and put a process to be able to look through all the data and figure out the bad guys automatically without having people look at the data. instead they chose to -- also we would filter out with u.s. citizens and encrypt and build a graph. so that meant we could get the cells internally and trace everything that everybody has been claiming they need to do by scooping up everything. >> megyn: it was in favor of a program that has been very controversial and remains so to this day. >> the issue was they didn't have to do it.

>> megyn: we're coming up against a break. coming up an update on the hurricane.

♪ >> molly: fox news alert. in a stunning twist in case of ricin laced letters sent to president obama and mayor michael bloomberg. we are learning that the woman actress that first reported finding a suspicious substance has now been arrested. shannon richardson who appeared on the walking dead is now facing charges in the case after accusing her husband. she is her fourth husband. she has five children and she is currently pregnant. the letters contain

threatening words, this is the second time. remember the ricin case we saw with the other politicians? elvis impersonator and says i'm being framed. they arrested the guy that framed him and he had been along it. they let them go and now it's the wife. want to bring you a weather update, tropical storm, not hurricane, first named storm barreling up the east coast. they say andrea is losing her tropical characteristics as she moves north. mary quinn has the latest. >> that is exactly right. you can feel a big difference in myrtle beach. storm has passed over in myrtle beach and crossing over into north carolina

and virginia where the residents will deal with the worst of andrea. the seas are much caller this how and major improvement this morning. when we arrived here four-foot waves had been crashing along the storm. they had been warning swimmers and surfers to stay out of the water. it was enough to cause power outages but this early it's a wake-up call that could be active hurricane season. >> we do make preparations and talking about what do we do, board up the houses and all that good stuff. there has been talk amongst friends and families that we need to prepare better because it is very early. >> reporter: kim brought her family to the shore to look for sea shells and we'll see a lot more activity through the weekend as assured to be much better weekend for weather. >> megyn: thank you. coming up disturbing video of an attack on local

news crew sparking a debate over freedom of the press. where they went head to head and charges facing the homeowner fit the crime. plus, leaks detailing widespread spying on americans raising questions whether the director of national intelligence lied directly lied to congress. it is the latest in a series of credibility challenges for certain top administration figures. we're going through the list. we'll play you the under oath testimony of these top figures and have a fair and balanced debate on whether we need to see some perjury charges here. that is next.

>> megyn: can we trust this administration? this after the national intelligence administrator this after denying a program as recently as march. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. it does not. not wittingly. there are cases inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly. >> megyn: his reversal comes on the heels of our attorney general eric holder.

he told congress this last month, knowing he had labeled our own james rosen a criminal. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press of disclosure of material that is not something i've ever been involved in or heard of or would think be a wise policy. >> megyn: that is not all. we now know that the former irs commissioner gave testimony that was not true in 2012 about the irs targeting conservative groups? >> what has been happening has been the normal back and forth that happens with the irs. there is absolutely no targeting. this is kind of back and forth when people apply for 501c4 status. >> megyn: here is jay carney explaining the small insignificant role the white house and state department supposedly had when it came to changing the talking points about the benghazi terror attacks? >> what the white house and state department have made

clear the single adjustment to those talking points by either of these two institutions were changing the word conflict to diplomatic facility. >> megyn: we know that was toll thely false. white house and state department had significant inpit and were responsible for many of the changes to the talking points. can we trust them? joining me now leslie marshall a talk show host mike gallagher and judy miller. all our fox news contributors. let's start with you judy. >> well, perhaps english isn't their first language. if you listen to the questions and listen to the answers. you have to say what were these officials thinking. if they were not intentionally misleading, they inadvertently misled and eric holder refuses to provide an explanation for the discrepancy in what he now says he meant and what he said tells us that they

don't even feel they owe the american people an explanation. it's truly shocking and reprehensible. >> megyn: they are all blatant and the one with clapper, you can feel how he is doing this, mike, and it's almost like don't ask me about that because i can't talk about that. we saw eric holder, if you ask you something and you can't talk about that and it's not appropriate about in an open session but you don't lie? >> to suggest the obama administration has a credibility problem is like the bear has a tendency to go to the bathroom in the woods. every day is a new series of revelations and untruths. we're down the rabbit hole in alice and wonderland on this stuff. one of the poster children for deception, susan rice, has just been recommended by the president to be his national security advisor. i mean, this is woman went

around as we know by now and deceived the world about what happened about n benghazi. >> megyn: susan rice was giving her orders by someone else. director of national intelligence specifically saying, he could not have been more specific. does the nsa collect any type of data at all on americans --undreds of no, sir. >> no, sir, under oath. >> megyn: where is the accountability? why do they get a pass on this. >> no, i want to say to you, absolutely. could have just said that is classified information. i can't talk about that. but can we also talk about that bear in the woods, my buddy mike. let's talk about common sense. when i went to target and sliced my card, how many

people knows that somebody is lactose intolerant in my family? the reality when the american government is pulling phone records and has been content with at&t in san francisco in 2003, how are american's information not there. you put my phone number in google, you know where i live and know my name. wait. >> megyn: this is a different question. these are not young lings. attorney general, the director of national intelligence, white house press secretary the commissioner of the irs. where is the accountability for these at best misleading statements. >> that is the problem. this is highlighted about the fact that the president professed to be troubled

that the accusation that james rosen was perhaps violating the espionage acted by soliciting information as a reporter which is basically what we all do -- the fact that we all do to look into eric holder's behavior tells us how serious this investigation is. >> that is my point about advancing susan rice's career. like it or not this is a woman who has been swirling around in deception over benghazi and then she gets this kind of promotion. the fact is, you are right to hone in on the lack of accountability. that is the whole problem here. there is a virtually no accountability over the brazen lies. listen, i think leslie is right. there is a vigorous debate to had about the nsa program but the issue is you lied about it under oath when it is brought to your attention publicly. >> megyn: when you take it

to under oath, there a special obligation. i get people say things on back side. you are under oath and you don't tell the truth, that is totally different story. today, clapper put out a statement to the guardian story. he was not happy with the leak. which you understand, but he says in part, i believe it is important to address the misleading impression left by the article. what about the misleading left by you in your congressional testimony, sir? >> no question about that. you are an attorney and i certainly am not, i wanted to be but i am not, with regards to eric holder, misleading, yes. is he backing off a responsibility he had with regard to james rosen an excellent reporter, yes,

but is there a perjury taken here. contradiction between what he said and did isn't strong enough for perjury. with regard to the head of the nsa, it's not considered perjury because he chose not to say that is classified information and he obviously.... >> megyn: can we hear him one more time. do we have it? they are getting it. because it's so clear. i don't know. >> it's ambiguous. >> megyn: here. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. it does not. not wittingly. there are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps

collect but not wittijly. >> megyn: that must be the signal. one said they were and trying to get truthful testimony. he apparently failed. where do we go from here? now the misleading report in the guardian and his own statements? >> of course, maybe, leslie, that is why you chose not to pursue the path of law, i'm thinking lying under oath is perjury. when you blatantly lie that is going to be a problem. all we can do is hope. the media which i believe, frankly, it's not hard to emerge these issues but the reaction to the nsa scandal here of the phone records and all that because they know it started under president bush, i'm hoping all this scrutiny any about this administration that all of a sudden things are

going to start to fall into place and accountability is going to be done over the benghazi and irs. >> megyn: i don't know. they all lied. do we have to accept that? >> your previous guests from the nsa, they are just human. that is why we are supposed to have checks and balances. that is why not presenting misleading information to the u.s. congress is so vital. these people just walk away without an explanation or reprimand, then it will be media, american people who are to blame for not demanding an explanation. now this information and two programs are public, we need to have that debate. and let's not throw in guantanamo, let's talk about civil liberties, free press and protection of privacy versus national security.

>> megyn: i will leave you three with this soundbite from president obama earlier this morning. >> if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we are abiding by the constitution, due process and rule of law, then we're going to have some problems here. >> megyn: amen. panel, thank you all so much. up next, disturbing video of an attack on a news crew raising new questions about the right to privacy and right to know. and criminal charges that have now been filed in this case. are they appropriate? [ indistinct conversations ]

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♪ >> megyn: kelly's court is in session and woman facing felony assault charges after a conversation with a news crew gets out of hand. watch what happens when a reporter and photographer try to interview the woman. >> are you throwing rocks? >> first comes the rock, barely missing our photographer' scraping his arm. we're about to leave and instead, lawrence comes out wielding a baseball bat. then she sicks her two dogs on us. [ bleep ] ow! >> one bites my forearm and

i take off running as they chase me down the street. eventually i make it to a backyard three houses down. lawrence finally calls her dogs back. not before cursing at us one last time. >> megyn: joining me is former prosecutor and david wohl who is a defense attorney. that mother has been charged with two counts of felony assault and is facing $50,000 bond. do the charges fitted the crime or alleged crime? >> i would say no. did she do something wrong. throwing rocks and singing dogs on reporters but look at the common sense aspect of this. she clearly didn't want to be talked to. all the reporter wanted to get out. a piece of national security, she just wanted to know how this poor woman felt how her daughter getting shot.

go away. the woman says get off my property. that should have been it. they turned it into entertainment when the woman was not having a good day. >> megyn: the woman's daughter had been shot. her 16-year-old daughter had been shot and news crew was trying to interview her. you tell me, but i think the defendant the mother would be much better stead if the newsroom wasn't on her property? >> she is using deadly force to defend herself from questions of reporters. she threw a good sized rock at her. it looks to me they are pit bulls. she is very lucky they didn't do a lot more damage on the young reporter than they did. you can't use deadly force obviously. she could have said no comment.

she could have screamed at them, get the "h" off my property. i understand she is very emotional. i have been there. i reported for several years. my photographer and i were attending by a man that guy by chimps and destroyed my $60,000 camera. its tough business and you don't want to be in it, just say no. >> megyn: she did say no. news reports said she asked them to leave but then throwing rocks. they didn't leave and then i took matters into my own hands. >> exactly. there tape is heavily edited. we don't know the precise conversation but clearly the mother by virtue of her actions, she does not wanted -- and beware of dogs. they didn't need a sign. they have the actual dogs in sight before she sicked

them. >> megyn: now there is an issue with respect to the dogs and upping the ante in this case. that is next. [ male announcer ] at hebrew national, we're so choosy about the cuts of beef that meet our higher kosher standards that only a slow-motion bite can capture all that kosher delight. and when your hot dog's kosher, that's a hot dog you can trust. hebrew national. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills.

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♪ or go online to lifelock.com/planahead. use promo code planahead, and get 60 days of lifelock protection risk free. enjoy your vacation, knowing lifelock never takes one. >> are you going to throw blocks. >> first come the rocks. barely missing our photographer's head. scraping his arm. we think the interview is over and we're about to leave. instead lawr comes out wielding a baseball bat. >> why you attacking us? >> then she sics her two dogs on us. [bleep] >> ow! >> megyn: the reporter got a dog bite in the forearm.

they say they were leaving, but they were still there. and she is yelling, why are you attacking us, ma'am? are you going to throw rocks? i understand how journalism works and you have a moment, it's on camera. but if you're in a regular person would have just run. so the question is whether her defense lawyer is going to be arguing everything after the rock throw is irrelevant because she told them to leave, they wouldn't leave. they were harassing her. this is what they're going to argue. >> absolutely. she has been charged with felony assault. she could go to prison if found guilty. this is not a prison case. so, sure, any good defense attorney is going to met gait it by saying they over stayed their welcome. you can hear the woman saying, get away from me, and the information the reporters were trying to get, between us, wasn't that newsworthy. >> she had no right to hurt them, david. >> megyn, let get something straight. doesn't matter if she was on the

sidewalk or her front doorstep. you cannot use deadly force to get rid of a journalist who just wants to ask questions. >> she got the dogs to sic her. >> that's weaponnizing animals and that could be an additional charge of animal abuse when you use a dog to go after someone. now she has gotten rid of the dogs. >> they were missing when animal control officers went home. there's a mandatory ten-day quarintine, and if she produce them she could face additional charges. we'll be right back. you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪

>> megyn: lots of reaction today. on twitter, let me know what you think. thanks for walking. here's shepard. >> shepard: the news begins anew. president obama says you can't have 100% privacy, basically admitting the feds can track your phone calls and what you do online. the former deputy director for the national security agency will be near this studio, to explain the once top secret program. >> a judge has allowed not one but two children with cystic fibrosis to join the adult transplant list. and we'll speak to boomer esiason whose son had this disease. >> and the government's fight against big chocolate. a lawsuit