[applause] >> sean: thank you for being with us. all the time we have left.the time we have as always, thank youu for beinl with us.ve let not your heart be troubled. we'll be back soon for another edition of " [applause] >> this administration that said it was going to be the most transparent in history i think you might argue is the least transparent certainly in recent times. >> do you feel like the irs has betrayed the trust of the american people? >> i do, mr. chairman. >> when this was all going on, why didn't a whistleblower come forward? why didn't one person in the irs say, hey, this was wrong? >> the attorney general has the full confidence of the president of the united states, handling his job very well. >> when i get to a point when i think i've accomplished all the goals that i've set, i will sit down with the president, and we'll talk about a transition to a new attorney general. >> there is yet another

bombshell from the government. the nsa is not only collecting your phone call data, but following every move you make on the internet. >> this is a dragnet. it's an overreach. we've got to find out why this is justified simply because of the nsa wants to do some data mining. >> greta: this is a special edition of "on-the-record." second term scandals. no party at the irs. this week, what the white house did not need, another new scandal erupts. secret surveillance programs exposed. much more ahead on how the obama administration is spying on you, but we begin with the irs. >> it's time for the irs to come clean. >> to the left. three, four. >> i'm absolutely appalled at the apparent waste of taxpayer dollars on frivolous conferences. >> it's so challenging to teach

them, even though the lyrics are the direction to the dance. my goodness. >> what was the irs thinking? >> to the left. i need a straight line. trying to get ready for anaheim! >> it seems we have a new misstep every day at the irs. >> to the right, to the right, to the right. >> for the committee, has anyone to date be held accountable? >> let me answer your question this way. if you look -- >> that's a yes or no. has anyone been held accountable? >> i would say yes. >> they don't pay me enough to do this. i'm not an executive. i just play one on tv. >> someone should review these conferences to see if they're appropriate. >> going where no government employee has gone before. >> i was concerned by the video that the chairman showed us. i would say it is an insult to the memory of "star trek." i could do a better captain kirk. >> i've already spent my per diem for the day. >> i swear to god, i've looked

at that video over and over again and i swear i don't see the redeeming value. >> i was up until 3:00 this morning watching it, because i was trying to get to the redeeming value. couldn't get there. i worked hard at it now. >> fascinating. it's embarrassing. i apologize. >> when did it strike you that this -- that this was wrong? >> as i said -- >> when you get called to testify before congress? >> no. no, sir sir. >> shall i wear a speed cap to cover my ears, captain? >> greta: now the $64,000 question. who did it? who said it was okay for the irs to spend $64,000 on gifts, toys, for employees attending that conference. it was a very expensive swag

bag. >> over $64,000 was spent on items, promotional items, like this bag that says "leading into the future." they threw a $4 million party for themselves. >> leading into the future? >> leading into the future, teamwork in action, your leadership journey, all about our tax dollars spent in inappropriate ways. >> this is a nice leather bag, or case. where is some of the stuff made? >> this one is made in china. many of the things were made in china. they were not even buying american. they threw themselves a $4 million party. >> and do we know about how much these things cost that we have on the table here? >> all the swag bag items were about $64,000. 3,000 of these promotional items given, in addition to the lavish suites, the parties that were thrown. >> congressman, we want to ask

you, in this inspector general report here, we see in addition to the items given here, in the swag bag as we call it, various promotional items, totaling $27 thundershower provided. we've seen the footnote, purchased by the human capital office for approximately $737, given to attendees at the information corridor as well as during a conference workshop that consisted of various items including keychains, plastic coins, miniature stuffed animals and plastic squirting fish. this fish is not from the conference. it's very similar to the ones given out. we assume it's roughly 3,000, the number of attendees. i ask you, sir, what in the world does an irs employee need a plastic squirting fish? >> i don't know. maybe this represents the fishy things going on at the irs. this is outrageous. i mean it shows obviously these people were attending a party. they used taxpayer dollars to throw it. >> greta: the irs scandal is not just about the $4 million party, but started with the disturbing news that the irs has been

targeting conservative groups. this week conservative groups finally getting their turn, telling congress about the irs putting a giant targets on thyir backs. >> i'm not here as a serf, begging my lord for mercy. i'm a born free american woman, wife, mother and citizen. i'm telling my government that you've forgotten your place. >> in march of 2012, the confidential portions of our 990 tax returns, including schedule b, our list of major donors and their home addresses, appeared on the website of the human rights campaign, our principal political opponent in the nationwide fight over traditional marriage. the copy of our tax returns and our list of donors that was posted there was redacted our computer forensic people were able to unlayer the redactions from that pdf file and discovered that the original document that was post third down had originated from within

the irs. >> let's stop the charade of pretending these are social welfare organizations, and admit their political, treat them as such, and play by the same rules that everybody on the committee plays for when we're involved in politics. >> representative blumenauer, it's your kind of statements that have empowered irs agents to make determinations about which organizations qualify for the public good and which do not. [applause] >> in order to raise money i filed an application with the irs in january of 2011 seeking to obtain 501(c)(3) status as an educational organization. as of today, i've been waiting for 29 months without status. in the interim i lost a $30,000 launch grant from a reputable nonprofit whose executive director advised me that he had never seen such treatment of a

501(c)(3) applicant in 25 years of making grants. >> i'm totally outraged by the accusation that we're somehow subsidized by the taxpayers. people making donations to the c4 organization, that is not a tax deductible amount. we're not getting any amount from the taxpayers. what we're saying is, hey, if we want to have a group, people pay dues or make a donation that at the end of the year, or whatever, that we're not subject to pay taxes on that money again, which has already been taxed when the person earned it to begin with. this is an outrage to imply that somehow we're taking money from starving children to fund our group. >> republicans were looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one. mr. issa says he can feel it in his gut that someone's broken the law. let's not forget this, this happened under an irs commissioner appointed by george bush, investigated by a republican inspector general. what happened to you was unfair, but it was a mistake.

>> well, welcome to washington. >> the committee will be in order. ryan has the time. >> we heard gingrich, we heard bush. >> mr. chairman -- >> we had the former irs commissioner shulman who knew about political targeting long before congress was told, implying the organizations were responsibling for the targeting because they chose to apply for tax exempt status. so you're to blame, i guess, is the message here. >> my personal favorite was question number 33, which relation to protests asked for a listing of our, quote, committed violations of local ordinance, breaches of public order or arrests, then requested details on how we conduct or promote illegal activities. i think the irs needs to fix its labeling machine. we're the san fernando valley patriots, not occupy oakland. >> you have proof that the irs, an individual or a group of individuals, at the irs committed a felony, you have proof of this, and nothing has occurred to seek or find

justice. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> most stunningly, on may 3rd of this year, in follow-up to a privacy act request, where we asked for the specific information, that federal law allows us to request when there's been an investigation into the disclosure of our tax return, the inspector general's office told us that the identity of the source of this felony against us, was it self-protected tax return information that they could not disclose to us. i ask you to think about the irony of that. >> this was not an accident. this is a willful act of intimidation to discourage a point of view. what the government did to our little group in alabama is un-american. >> greta: former speaker of the house newt gingrich joins us. mr. speaker, last week it was thought it was a couple rogue employees in cincinnati. this week the trail leads to the irs targeting to washington.

>> i think it's deeper and deeper. when you learn the irs commissioner visit the white house 157 times, more than the secretary-general, the secretary of state, combined, and you have to ask the question, what were they going there for? now apparently there's several employees saying flatly, olook, i got my orders directly from washington. they've named a person. i'm sure that person is now going to be brought in and deposed under oath. that person will be asked who where are you reporting to? if you remember how watergate unfolded, it's just week after week after week. and the trail gets bigger and broader. of course now on top of that with this really weird various and sundry conferences with a happiness speaker and a painter who made you feel better about yourself. and the irs just looks worse and worse with each passing week. >> greta: probably a lot of this stuff started a long time ago.

to what extent does it fall on president obama's plate? even though the origin goes back years in different forms. >> if you look at the total number of scandals -- at gingrich productions we have four interns who have taken an entire room over, trying to put all the scandals up on the wall to see them all. there's the environmental protection agency scandal giving private farmers' names to lawyers. there's a scandal secretary will sibelius with health and human services. there's what the attorney general has been doing in terms of the associated press and fox news. you go all the way around. virtually cabinet officer had an illegal private email address that apparently violates a 1974 law. every time you turn around. i think this is a bureaucratic big government scandal with obama as a piece of it, but it's not an obama scandal pitcher sc. it's a symptom of how sick the system is. now conflicting reports about the national security agency.

part of where the internal revenue service is damaging to our belief in government is if you have irs agents who ask christian groups, you know, what were you saying in your prayers, asking an 83-year-old woman, what were the conversations in your friday morning coffee group, why would you trust an element of the very same government with enormous secret data about americans. >> greta: there was a blistering editorial taking president obama apart on promised transparency and accountability, and the fact that the nsa snooping has been going on. if he's got "the new york times" editorial board turning against him, is that just a flash in the pan, or is there more? >> i think, first of all, my expectation is you're going to see more things next week and more things the week after. as you know, because you've covered it before, when these things start to break down, more and more people leak, more and

more people feel like they want to get out in front of the problem. you begin to get more trails to go down. there are now -- this is very different than watergate. there are more different the congress looking at different aspects of scandal i think i can remember in my lifetime. every week we have one or two more. i think that's going to continue. it's partly the obama's administration attitude, which has been very arrogant, and i think fundamentally dishonest. it is partly this underlying decay of the bureaucracy, so out of control, that -- this is true under bush. it was true under clinton. i mean, you've had a continuing growth of a bureaucracy, which thinks that nobody controls it, it doesn't report to anybody, and it doesn't matter what you say. >> greta: what do you think president obama thinks about this? does he pay attention? is this getting to him? is it a distraction? >> there was a book on death and dying, you start with rejection, anger, bargaining, then

acceptance. i think they're still in the rejection phase. he's still trying to figure out, can i do a foreign trip, make a big speech, to get people not to think about it. the next phase, and this happens in any big scandal, the amount of time you have to spend being briefed, the number of new things -- imagine the president suddenly walking in and saying, oh, gee, turns out the internal revenue service commissioner was in this building 157 times. you got to stop and say, who was he meeting with? i don't think he was meeting with the president 157 times. then you get the next story. then you get the next story. part of what happens is, you lose a great deal of your energy to be a leader just having to absorb all these punches, having to be briefed on what do they mean, how are we going to handle them, what are we going to do? >> greta: how do you make the determination whether something is political or something is a legitimate inquiry? >> i think this is something republicans have to be very

careful about in the house. the country is supportive of a country that gets the facts. it is not supportive of a congress which goes on a partisan witch-hunt. the calmer and more fact-oriented the republicans can be in developing these investigations the broader support they'll get in the country. i think almost everybody in the country believes the irs did something profoundly wrong. even most democrats believe they did s-mething profoundly wrong. almost every american is troubled by the scale of the gathering-up of information we're learning about from the national security agency. i think there's a potential availability of a very broad bipartisan effort to get to the truth. the people have to believe that's sincerely what you're trying to do. >> greta: straight ahead, from targeting conservatives to wasting your money on ridiculous videos, and still no one at the irs has been fired. we'll talk about that next. also new information, the nsa snooping scandal.

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how will we implement? >> we just answered a lot of questions in the hearing. we'll answer more going forward. right now i'm going to get back to the irs and get to work. >> what was your reaction to the videos? did you see the videos, dancing videos? >> as i mentioned, we just answered a lot of questions. we're going to answer more questions going forward. there will be plenty of time to do press interviews. right now i think it's most important i get back to the irs and get to work. thank you. >> do you think that the agents in cincinnati deserve an apology if the direction came from above? [no response] >> greta: the acting irs grand juries coming under fire outside and inside the hearing room, lawmakers demanding to know why lois lerner has not been fired. >> is lois lerner still being paid? >> she is. there's two stages to accountability here.

the first stage is based on the facts we have now to determine who can no longer hold a position of trust within the irs. the second stage, which i know is where you're going, is to determine whether there was any underlying malfeasance or issues that would warrant dismissal. we'll follow the facts where they take us. we do not have that completed review -- >> if you don't know there's underlying malfeasance, why was somebody asked to resign? >> because it was determined they could no longer hold a position of public trust because of failures of oversight. >> so they were asked to resign just for -- to restore public trust for public perception, but or maybe political purposes? >> no, i wouldn't say that. i would say that when there's a breakdown in management, when there's gross mismanagement, you have to make tough decisions about whether that person can continue to hold their position of trust. >> greta: lois lerner on administrative leave, but still collecting a government paycheck from you.

is anyone at the irs really being held accountable? forbes media chairman and editor-in-chief steve forbes joins us. >> good to see you, greta. >> greta: how do we make sure we have real action to clean things up? >> i think ultimately the only way, yes, you'll have more congressional investigations, which have been very educational, but ultimately i think we need a special prosecutor, who has subpoena powers, the powers to call grand juries, who can do a systemic investigation, who can start from people right on the ground and go up the chain, right into the white house. we had an irs commissioner, as we know, paid over 150 visits to the white house when his predecessor paid one visit to the white house. you have to do intein a systemic way. i don't like special prosecutors, but the abuse here, where they just didn't go after an enemies list, but citizens all around the country of a particular political persuasion,

we have to have that kind of special prosecutor today. >> greta: if it furnishe turns t the president had nothing to do with this, no knowledge, totally confined within the irs, does he still have responsibility being the head of the country? >> absolutely. he set the tone for it back in 2010, when he pointed out these organizations, sometimes by name, hinting that they're controlled by foreign entities. then you have eight to ten senators sending letters to the irs, demanding investigations, threatening the irs that they didn't investigate. the irs going to respond and it did. it played politics on a scale we've never seen before. we've had abuses before, but never on such a systemic scale. it came from the president. the amazing thing is, greta, he didn't have to use secret meetings to do it. he did it right out in public. >> greta: is the congress also to be held accountable? they have oversight

responsibility. there were lots of hints, sent letters, but didn'te particularly fast. >> no, they didn't. we saw this before in the late 1990s, when there was a round of scandals, not on a scale we have today, but took outside scandals to bring about a real change. congress does not have a sadly affected oversight, but that's another reason why we need a special prosecutor. house side is going to sur sue investigations. senator durbin of illinois went on tv on fox last weekend and admitted that he did it and said he was straightforward about it. so congress can only do so much. we need a special prosecutor to get to the whole thing. we have a whole record. i think it will go in the white house, not just the irs. then we can take real remedial action, including a drastic downsizing of the irs. being a compassionate conservative, even though these people partied on the taxpayer

dime, i'd be in favor of job retraining, but can't be in the positions they're in today. this thing has got to go. >> greta: steve, thank you. >> thank you. >> greta: straight ahead, could you get caught up in the obama administration's dragnet? the scandal reaching from phone calls to emails, reportedly even credit cards? the latest is next. and another rough week for attorney general eric holder. should he stay or go. should he stay or go. you'll hear from i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat mo dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪

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i guess looking at phone numbers and durations of calls. they are not looking at people's names, and they're not looking at content. >> president obama defending his administration's dragnet, sweeping surveillance programs targeting the phone records of millions of americans and intercepting data from the nation's largest internet companies. how will the president's explanation sit with americans? rick klein joins us. he says no one is listening. love to believe him, but they told senator widen they didn't have it. and other problems where they're slippery with the story. >> americans have learned and inordinate amount of information in the last 48 hours. >> greta: he doesn't like the leaks, but welcomes the debate. we wouldn't be able to get the debate without the leaks. >> that's right. people may go to jail over the leaks, exactly.

the way this is being received right now, the president has managed to unite the far right and far left. liberals and libertarians suddenly agree. the issue will be the middle. i don't know where it is yet. you hear members of congress, and seems to be general support along the people who are most briefed on this issue, on the intelligence committee, but people now know something about the federal government, and the details of which were not known before. we had no idea this was going on with regard to the phone companies. we had no idea this was going on with regard to electronic communication. this will take time to digest. the president welcomes the debate. he'll get it, because there will be members of congress, the public responding to it, and it will take time to play out. >> greta: oversight hasn't been particularly good. look at the irs. how much confidence duty american people have? oh, good, congress with oversight, when they've done a lousy job on -- >> members of congress were

surprised to hear this news over the past couple of days. there's a big issue on oversight of intelligence. if you did have a concern, sitting on the intelligent committee like senator widen did and udall, they couldn't even tell their legs about their concerns because the way the information is walled yoed off. there's no question, this program was legal, it was carried out with that knowledge, but they didn't all know about it. >> greta: even judges make mistakes. judges make decisions at the lower full, what's constitutional, but by the time it gets up to the supreme court, it's reversed. if they're hiding it out, the american people can't possibly -- >> the order leaked this week, it's going to be declassified in 2038. the that's when we get to see the order in its entirety. there isn't oversight because this stuff is walled off. >> greta: what's the political

ramifications, or are there none because it involves both parties? >> you have support from both parties. i think a lot of members of the public, if you watch "homeland" or "24" you probably assumed this was happening. people seem to be willing to cut the government a good amount of slack when it's about terrorism, keeping americans safe. this isn't the irs story, where you had rogue agents in there, this is a legal program. >> greta: it didn't stop the boston bomb, and they were tipped about the tsarnaev brothers by the russians. they weren't following their phones. it's not an airtight program that's going to protect us. >> certainly that, but members of congress say it has prevented actual attacks. they haven't provided details. i'd love to know the details of that, because that has to be part of the full debate. it's not enough to say we need this because we need to keep people safe.

>> greta: scaring us into agreeing to it. rick, thank you. >> thanks, greta. >> greta: coming up, attorney general eric holder getting more heat, saying he won't step down. what do lawmakers have to say about that? you're about to find out. another obama cabinet member on the hot seat. the latest on the obamacare ♪ ♪ chances are, you're not made of money, so don't overpay for boat insurance. geico, see how much you could save.

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>> live from america's news headquarters, i'm marianne rafferty. the death toll revised downward after a shooting spree. the gunman killed four people before he was shot to death inside a santa monica college library. they had said six people were killed. the first victims were found inside a burning home. they are identified as the shooter's father and brother. the violence continuing with the suspect distressed all in black, shooting at a bus, cars and suv. the first named storm of the hurricane season is moving up the east coast, andrea, bringing

tornados to florida. no major damage reported there. but it is blamed for one death in virginia. forecasters saying andrea could bring high winds, heavy rain and flooding to mid-atlantic states and new england through saturday. i'm marianne rafferty. "on the record" returns after the break. "on-the-record" returns after the break. >> greta: attorney general eric holder on the hot seat, insisting he's not going anywhere. >> but to be clear, you're not stepping down now? >> no, i have no intention of doing so now. >> the attorney general's credibility is on the line. >> come back to the congress, attorney general holder, explains your actions versus what you said regarding the fox news investigation. >> i think we ought to subpoena the attorney general to come back and answer those questions specifically. >> calls are growing louder for attorney general eric holder to step down as republicans launch

an investigation into whether he lied under oath during his testimony on the justice department's surveillance of reporters. >> he was seriously involved in an investigation of a reporter with the allegation being that that reporter committed a criminal act. the attorney general should resign for the good of the justice department. >> "the new york times" reporting, even some in the white house, are hoping mr. holder calls it quits, although they are doing it anonymously. >> the attorney general's had the full confidence of the president of the united states, and is handling his job very well. >> the deadline has come and gone for the attorney general to explain his testimony about possibly prosecuting journalists as part of a leak investigation. >> gop house judiciary committee leaders have been trading letters with the justice department, though they call the responses from a department official other than the attorney general himself insulting. >> eric holder leaves himself open to a subpoena. he leaves himself open to charges of contempt of congress. >> eric holder did in fact send a letter to the house judiciary

chairman about the targeting of repoers that came after the committee's deadline. he missed the deadline by about two hours. >> basically it says, i stand by the letter sent earlier in the week. >> i've not done a perfect job. i think i've done a good job. the department has not prosecuted, and as long as i have the privilege of serving as attorney general of the united states, will not prosecute any reporter for doing his or her jobs. >> greta: is attorney general eric holder going or staying? nice to see you, sir. >> hi, greta. >> greta: in light of what's happened, sir, this past week, the letters from the doj, even one late from the attorney general, what's going to happen with the attorney general? what's the committee going to do? >> well, we're really disappointed. we sent him a letter, giving him the opportunity to explain the inconsistencies in his testimony. he had one of his underlings write back to us, so we had to

write back to him, and finally he respond, but really didn't answer our questions. we've invited him to come back and testify, to give him a chance to explain these inconsistencies. if not, i would be in favor of subpoenaing him, making him come, because you've got to be straight with congress, because if you're the attorney general of the united states. >> greta: what's the question you're going to ask him if he accepts your invitation to come back? >> if you told the truth in front of our committee about mr. rosen, why did you represent -- why where you willing to sign off on your justice department representing to a court that he was an aider, abettor or co-conspirator? i don't think he has a good answer for that. i think they did it, because they knew if they didn't represent that then they wouldn't have been able to get the emails. >> greta: of course when he said that at the time, it was not in the public domain that they had subpoenaed all that information from -- about james rosen. tell me, if he remains as

attorney general, what will that -- why are you so much opposed to that? let's carve out this situation with james rosen. why don't you want him to be attorney general? >> i think he has a credibility problem. before i even got to congress, the congress voted to hold him in contempt for his stonewalling with fast and furious. you had about 20 democrats who supported holding holder in contempt. it wasn't as if it was a purely partisan thing. then with all his testimony in front of our committee about the ap, he was never forthright about his role in that. he said he recused himself, but never could remember any details, didn't have a record of it, and of course we have investigations into the irs, and other important issues. if you don't have credibility with the public, i don't think you're in a position where you'll be able to handle these things adequately. we have a duty to conduct oversight. we'll continue do that. i'd like to investigate, get all the truth, hold people accountable as expeditiously as

possible, but if he still is at the top of the justice department, i don't think you're going to get the resolution that the american people wants on any of these issues. >> greta: speaking of the irs investigation, steve forbes said there should be a special prosecutor appointed by the attorney general. would you have a problem with him if there's a special prosecutor, would the attorney general be the one to select the special prosecutor to investigate the irs targeting? >> i would. ideally we should have a special prosecutor. the problem is if the attorney general appoints someone running interference on an investigation, that could make it more difficult for congress to exercise its oversight function. i think we need to continue what we're doing on oversight. we're actually getting a lot of information. there's more coming out about links to washington, d.c. with this whole thing. i wouldn't want somebody who wasn't really on the up and up investigating and then have witnesses say, oh, well, it's a criminal investigation, i can't talk to congress now, because i need to -- you know, i was told by investigators that it's a criminal case.

>> greta: congressman, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> greta: straight ahead, is hhs secretary cato lean sibelius or breaking the law? lawmakers trying to get to the bottom of the obamacare fundraising. the latest on w ♪ [ male announcer ] moving object detection. ♪ blind spot warning. ♪

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hill secretary saying she did not break the law. >> washington post and "new york times" reported last month that you were soliciting funds from the health industry officials to support the implementation in the affordable care act is that true? >> no, sir that is not true. >> so you didn't communicate, have a discussion with folks at thet(ñr foundation?

for h and r block? >> you asked me if i slised funds and i said no. that is not true. i made five ixxj.t calls and three to dus cities -- discuss the skporgs suggest the entities took at the organization to johnson and johnson, and to kaiser. >> are any of the rupes regular yaited by your department? >> yes. all of them are. >> so health officials felt they felt pressure your response would be what? that they misunderstood the conversation? >> i can't answer what they felt. and could legally solicit funds from anybody and i chose not to do that by promoting a public private partnership, you bet. >> so there are reports you solicited funds from health care company that's would be

inaccurate? >> that is correct. >> if there are reports you solicited funds from pharmaceutical company that's would be inaccurate? >> that is correct. >> you solicited no funds that is regular yaitedly hhs? >> that is correct. it was recognized there would never be a government funding and would not be enough opportunity if this is only a government-run program so we began three years ago to reach out for partners. advocacy groups.w3 >> you said we. we. >> and and america that i'm scheduled... >> funds to enroll in that? >> no. no. >> krag krag common tom price joins us. good evening, sir. what the secretary said did

she violate laws or is she following the law? >> i'm not a lawyer and i do know that the white house, administration story changes day after day. remember they denied any communication with anyone about this. that was the original story in "new york times" and it was h and r block foundation and now, it's five. and not able to give names at this point what. she talked to. it's just concern concerning and a cycle we can see coming out of this administration. this expansion of power. and this intimidation of entities that administration regulates. that is the concern we have. >> do you think she's not forth coming or doesn't have information? or a massive project they can't gather that quickly? >> i'll let folks make their own conclusion. if you listen on your lead in there, i didn't say solicit in

that first sentence. she said no. when i said did you communicate with? this is not an administration that has been transparent this, was going tobt most accountable and transparent. it hasn't been that. the secretary of health and human services continues this process and mode of confound to communication was congress. >> greta: that is your next step? >> next step is to go through and find out where communications were, who did they go to? who did they contact in kaiser? in j and j? what were those conversations about? if those individual talking about what the communication was, what they thought was going on. did they think they're being solicited? being extorted? did they think there was supposed to be an action understood about the affordable care act ask enroll america? it's just a tangled wen -- web

because this is our health care. and it is a sordid affair at this point. >> greta: i'm curious whether you can solicit funds from people you regulate. she said it's lawful. i'm going to take a look. but that is sort of curious to me. congressman, thank you, sir. >> thank you greta. take care. >> greta: coming up the >> greta: coming up the governor's spying eyes your [ male announcer ] running out of steam? ♪ now you can give yourself a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle.

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there is an open thread on gretawire right now. thanks for joining us for this special on the record we'll see you again on monday. good night from washington, d.c.. this is the only time i'm going to do this. want to know what happens when the president doesn't have his teleprompter? this. >> i want to thank everybody who is here. i think there's only one problem, and that is that my remarks are not sitting here. people. people. oh, goodness. folks are sweating back there right now. >> you belt. hello, everybody. i'm kimberly gil guilfoyle. its 5:00 in new york city, and this is the