♪ ♪ >> when it comes to telephone calls nobody is listening to your telephone calls. that is not what this program is about. as was indicated what the intelligence community is doing is looking at phone

numbers and durations of calls. they are not looking at people's names and not looking at content. >> greta: president obama defending his administration's dragnet sweeping surveillance program targeting phone numbers and taking information from the largest internet companies. political director rick cline joins us. no one is listening, will have to believe them but the dni clapper under oath to democratic senator said we have other problems that are slippery? >> and americans have learned and inordinate amount of information what our government had been doing. he welcomes the debate. we haven't had the debate. >> greta: he doesn't like the leaks but welcomes the debate but we can't get the debate without the leaks? >> exactly. the way this is being

received right now the president has unite far left and far right. the issue is going to be the middle. you hear members of the congress and general support among people who were most briefed on this issue. people now know something about the federal government and details of which we're not known before. we had no idea this was going on with regard to the phone companies and we had no information with internet companies. he is going to get a debate because there sl be members of congress and public responding. >> greta: what he said was congress knew all about it. you talk about the oversight. oversights doesn't seem very good at this time. irs, how much confidence does the american people have. when you are going drop on the irs and many other things. what kind of confidence can the american people have? >> and i talked to members

of congress that was just as surprised to learn the news. there is a big news on oversight, if you are sitting on intelligence committee like senatori] udal or others, they couldn't tell colleague about these it because the information is walled off. it's impossible to have the full oversight. president says all three branches of government are involved. elements of all of that definitely true, there is no question this program was legal and was carried out with knowledge but they didn't know about it. >> greta: judges make mistakes and by the time it gets up to the supreme court it's reversed. without the debate american people can't decide. >> the order that was leaked, it's going to be declassified in 2038,o7i1éz get to see the order in entirety. there is oversight because all this stuff is walled off. >> greta: what is the

political ramifications? >> you have both parties and you have a lot of members of public, you watch homeland you assumed it was happening. people seem to be willing to cut the government a good a.m. of slack when it's about terrorism. this isn't the irs story. this is an actual legal program. >> greta: let's not forget the fact it didn't stop the boston bombing and they were tipped off by the tsarnaev brothers from the russians. they weren't following their phones. it's not an airtight program that is gunning to protect us? >> and members of congress says it has prevented actual attacks. i would love to know the details of that. it's not just enough to say we need this to keep people safe. that would be carte blanche for anything obviously and just saying trust us with

the government. that phrase means a little less than did it a few weeks ago. >> greta: coming up attorney general eric holder getting more heat and says she pot going to step down but what lawmakers have to say about that. and another obama cast member in the hot seat, kathleen sebelius. latest on the obamacare fund-raising allegations coming up. e verizon share everything plan for small business

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haven't done nothing wrong. the guardian have published several stories on the surveillance program details how they track all americans phone calls email. they are going to make a criminal investigation of the leaks. now back to our special on the record with greta van susteren here on fox news. >> greta: one scandal to another. eric holder on the hot seat and insisting he is not going anywhere. >> i have no intention of stepping down now. >> the attorney general credibility is personally on the line. >> come back to the congress, attorney general holder and explain to us your actions versus what you said regarding the fox news investigation. >> i think we ought to subpoena the attorney general to come back and answer those questions specifically. >> calls are going for holder to step down as

republicans launch an investigation into whether he lied under oath during his testimony on the justice department surveillance of reporters. >> he was seriously involved in an investigation of a reporter with the allegation being that reporter committed a criminal act. he should resign for the good of justice department. >> "new york times" is even some in the white house are hoping holder calls it quit. >> he had a full confidence of the president of united states and handling his job very well. >> deadline has come and gone for the attorney general to explain testimony about possibly prosecuting journalists as part of leak investigations. >> committee leaders have been trading letters to the justice department and call the responses from department official other than the attorney general himself insulting. >> he leads itself open to subpoena. >> eric holder did in fact send a letter to house

judiciary chairman about targeting of reports that came after the deadline and missed it by two hours. >> he said i stand by the letters i sent earlier in the week. >> i think i have done a good job for the department. as long as i have the privilege of serving as attorney general, i will not prosecute any reporter for doing his or her job. >> greta: is holder going or staying? ron desantos joins us. nood nice to see you, sir. in light of what has happened the past week and letters from the doj and even one late from the attorney general. what is going to happen with the attorney general. what is the committee going to do? >> well, we're really disappointed because we sent him a letter giving him an opportunity to explain inconsistencies in the testimony. we had to write back to him

and he responded but really didn't answer our questions. we've invited him to come back and explain the inconsistencies but i would be in favor of subpoenaing him and making him come. because you have to be straight with congress especially if you are the attorney general of the united states. >> greta: what is the question if he accepts your invitation to come back. why whu willing to sign off on your justice department representing to a court that he was an aider, abettor or co-conspirator? i don't think he has a good answer for that. i think they did it, because they knew if they didn't represent that then they wouldn't have been able to get the emails. >> greta: it was not in the public domain they had subpoenaed all that information about james rosen. tell me, if he remains as

attorney general why -- that is our situation with james rosen. why do you want the attorney general? >> i think he has a credibility problem. before i got to congress, they held him in contempt for fast and furious. you had 20 democrats to hold him in contempt. it wasn't purely partisan thing. and testimony about the a.p. and he was not forthright about his role. he recused himself and he couldn't remember details and didn't have a record of it. now, we have investigations into the irs and other important issues. if you don't have credibility with the public, i just don't think you will be in a position to handle these things adequately. we have a duty to conduct oversight we're going to continued to do that. i would like to investigation and get all the truth and hold people

accountable. if he is still at the top of the justice department, i don't think you'll get the resolution that the american public wants on any of these issues. >> greta: steve forbes said there should be a special prosecutor that would be appointed by the attorney general. would you have a problem with that to investigate the irs targeting? >> i would. ideally we should have a special prosecutor. if the attorney general appoints somebody that is going to run interference on an investigation, that could make it more difficult for congress to exercise its oversight function. i think we need to continue what we are doing on oversight. there sl will be more coming out links to washington, d.c. i would want want somebody that is really on the up and up and witnesses say it's a criminal investigation. i can't talk to donning because i was told by investigators its criminal

case. >> greta: congressman, thank you, sir. >> straight ahead, and kathleen sebelius, is he is breaking the law or simply following the law? they are trying to get to the bottom of the fund-raising and what is the latest on what they have discovered, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] for dad's first job as dad. nissan tests hundreds of child seats to give you a better fit and a safer trip. snug kids, only from nissan. ♪ [ susan ] i hate that the reason we're always stopping is because i have to go to the bathroom. and when we're sitting in traffic, i worry i'll have an accident. be right back.

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>>. >> greta: this week on capitol hill kathleen sebelius defending her controversial stance on obamacare. she insists she did not break the law. >> the "washington post" and "new york times" reported that you were soliciting funds from the health officials to support for enrollment of affordable care act? >> no, sir, that is not true. >> you didn't have any

discussions with h&r block. >> you asked me if i solicited funds for the health industry, that is not true. i made a total of five phone calls for enroll america. three of them were to discuss the organization and suggest that the entity look at the organization to johnson & johnson to ascension health and to kaiser. >> are any of those groups regulated by your department? >> yes, all of them are. >> so healthcare officials say they felt pressured to make donations to enroll america, your response would be what? they misunderstood the conversation? >> i can't answer what they felt. i could solicit legal solicit funds from anybody regulated by our office. i chose not to do that the by promoting a private partnership, bet. >> so there are published reports that you shifted funds from healthcare companies, those would be

inaccurate? >> that's correct. >> and if you slit funds from pharmaceutical that would be inaccurate? >> that is correct. >> it was all recognized from the day that the president signed a bill there would never be enough government funding a and there would not be enough opportunity if this is only a government run program. so begin three years ago, business partners and hospitals. >> i'm more concerned names. i'm looking for a name. you said we. did you ever discuss with anyone at the white house? >> i have had discussions with people about enroll america, did i discuss that -- no, sir. >> never discussed it with anyone at the white house? >> no, sir no. >> greta: good evening, sir. congressman issa, what the secretary said did she

violate any laws or following the law? >> well i'm not a lawyer she violated any laws yet but i do know the administration story changes day after day. they denied any communication that the secretary communicated with anybody. that was true and h&r block and now it's five and names who she talked to. it's disconcerting and it's a cycle we see coming out of this administration. that is expansion of communication and expansion of pour and intimidation of entities that the administration regulates. that is the concern that we have. >> greta: do you think she is not forthcoming or have the information. it's such a massive project they can't gather it that quickly? >> i'll let folks make their own conclusions. i don't think she is forthcoming. as the lead into my first

question, i didn't say solicitation and she said no, did you communicate with -- this is not an administration that has been transparent. this is most accountable and transparent administration. certainly hasn't been that and heck continues this confound and be on physical indicate. >> greta: what is the next step? >> the next step and congress committee to where the communications were. who did they contact in kaiser. who did they contact in j and j. get those individuals to talk about what the communication was and what they thought was going on. did they think they were being solicited? was there supposed to some action understood by the administration about affordable care account and who ought to be

contributing money. it's a tangled web. this is american people's healthcare. it's a very sordid affair at this point. >> greta: whether you can solicit funds you can regulate. she says it's lawful. i'm going to take a look at that. congressman, thank you, sir. >> greta: coming up the government's spying eyes. what you think about obama administration snooping scandal next. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earned with my venture card to erase recent travel purchases. d with a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup? yes. yes i did. what's in your wallet?

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speech at gretawire.com. thanks for joining us to a special on the record. we'll see you all on monday. good night from washington, d.c.. >> gregg: fox news alert, a brand-new revelations about the government's widespread surveillance of millions and millions of americans and the identity of the man who leaked that story. hello, glad you are with us. welcome to a brand-new hour. >> patti ann: i'm patti ann browne. the guardian that first broke the story is now revealing its source. a 29-year-old nsa contractor spilled the secrets. >> gregg: steve centanni is live. what can you tell us about the person that leaked this information to the media? >> he is an american that used to worfo