yoda. >> jenna: we have 20 seconds left. >> jon: not today. jen jen "america live" starts right now. >> megyn: fox news alert, new twists in the revelations about our government spying on americans as the man who leaked sensitive information about two government programs comes out of the shadows. welcome to "america live," everyone. i'm megyn kelly. 29-year-old edward snowden says he is the one who handedver information to reporters outlining two nasa surveillance programs. one collects phone records from americans. the other is tasked with collecting data from major u.s. internet companies. snowden tells reporters he has no regrets. even as an investigation is launched now into his alleged actions. at this moment we are awaiting a white house briefing. this story expected to be brought up early and often. we begin with our chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge with the the very latest live in washington. catherine? >> well, megyn, the latest information is that snowden has reportedly checked out

of a luxury hotel in hong kong where the going rate is $400 for a basic room a night. and in a 12-minute interview posted to the guardian's web site snowden claims he was able to see everything including the location of cia offices overseas and the identity of covert access as a systems administrator. >> you see things that may be disturbing but over the course of the normal person's career you would only see one one or two of these instances. when you see everything, you see them on a more frequent basis. you recognize that some of these things are actually abuses. >> according to the british paper, snowden said the final phase of his plan into motion three weeks ago and his nsa office in hawaii where he copied documents and then told his supervisor that he needed time off because he suffers from seizures before catching a plane to congress hong kong. he says he fears for his family adding some still work in the u.s. government. the paper says he was brought up in elizabeth city, north carolina. he later moved to maryland

where he was a mediocre student in high school. despite his academic record he was apparently great with computers and found his way into jobs first at the cia and then at the nsa. in the video snowden addresses the likelihood that he will be extradited or handed over to the u.s. for trial. >> i could be, you know, rendered by the cia. i could have people come after me or any of their third party partners. you know, they work closely with a number of other nations. or, you know, they could pay off the triads. >> the first step towards criminal prosecution is a motion with the filing of a crimes report by the nsa. former nsa official expect investigators to trace his criminal activity and turn the massive databases he complains of against him. >> everything would be available. every place he has touched the system electronically, terminals, accounts, emails, both in the system and outside the system, any

and all information related to any contact he may have had with reporters and journalists and others, they will turn his life inside out as they did with me. >> there is an extradition treat were with hong kong. there are some exceptions for areas that relate to china's foreign policy, defense, or areas that are described as public policy or other interests so it does, in fact, seem to be fairly broad the exceptions, megyn. >> megyn: wow, it will be interesting to see how that plays out, catherine, thank you. >> you are welcome. >> megyn: as the public learns more about the massive data intel agencies. we are learning more about a new firm scooping um data to sell to political campaigns. google's executive chairman eric smith is said to have been so impressed with the work done by one company that helped barack obama get reelected that he personally invested in the group which morphed from obama for america analytics into a new organization called civis.

the ceo google chairman now funding the data mining operation to help elect democratic and independent candidates. what can we expect from that? stu varney is anchor of barney and company on the fox business network. wow, so that's a pretty good organization to have for said democratic and independent groups, no? >> megyn, it is very troubling. all these revelations about snooping make it very troubling that one of the most powerful people in the world, the executive chairman of google, the most powerful internet company in the world should be so closely tied in not only to the president, but also to his re-election effort. it is eric schmidt who set up that data boiler room. he was in that data boiler room on the night of the re-election. he organized it. and then he is now investing in that same group, taking them private and they will work on campaigns for democrats elsewhere in the elections. now, that's very troubling.

it raises all kinds of questions about the intimate tie-in between the top man at the top internet company and the top man at the administration, which is largely accused of snooping on the public. >> megyn: because eric schmidt extremely successful businessman knows a lot about you. he knows a lot about all of us. runsse, you know, he google. i mean, come on. google knows everything you search for, what you are doing, access to your g mail and so on. and what's the concern that he would inappropriately share that information or use that information? i mean, there has been no history of that that we know of. >> no, there has not. but going forward, under obama care, your health records will be going online and you will have to divulge information about your health insurance to the irs. in this climate that we have now had thrust upon us, are we convinced that there will be no looking by the government at your

healthcare records? it also raises the issue of crony capitalism. recently, it was apple that was hauled before congress and criticized for not paying tax on overseas profits. google has been doing exactly the same thing did. they get a pass because they are so closely aligned to the president and apple is not? it raises all kinds of questions, megyn. >> megyn: this organization that he is funding is good. they are really good. >> yes. >> megyn: this civis. there is interesting article on bloomberg crediting them with barack obama's re-election. talking about how they invented expanded on game theory 30-year-old whiz kids named dan wagner who is behind it. it started with analyzing the iowa caucus and it did i vustled into analyzing obama's chances in every state of the union. even david plouffe, the campaign manager said even in the presidential election as we were getting down to the wire in ohio, that last few weeks before we were getting some data

that would say obama was up 4. the next he was down by 1 and says reportedly there were people in the campaign completely wigging out. but this guy dan wagner and his model and this group they showed us that a 3 to 4 point lead for president obama that would prove accurate. whatever they are doing statistically or so on tends to work. tends to be very effective and now it's going to be used for all these other democratic and independent groups. that's all fine and that's all fair. the question is whether eric schmidt and connections at google if they improperly share data from that organization that's what people are speculating about and worried about. >> it is speculation and it is nerves that's true. you have to ask the question. do you trust your government in light of all these revelations request b. snooping by the irs, the nsa, by the doj. do you trust year government not to look at the information which is probably available to them. and the closeness of the

tie-in between eric schmidt and the president himself that's very troubling. because eric schmidt is a very powerful guy. google is the most powerful internet company on the planet. >> megyn: but there is really no alternative, is there? i know there are some others. there is nothing as big as powerful or effective as google in terms of search engines. am i wrong. >> no. you are absolutely right. that is true. they have got the algorithms. they have got it and he they have got the information and they can mine it, and they have, and they will. and they keep doing it. >> megyn: we partnered with them in the presidential debate and they had a effective team and a wonderful snack room and then they let me wear the google glasses, too. but this is actually another. there is another complaint because people are saying google is about to be taking over the world. putting people on the internet. people will be walking around with glasses like this filming you when we don't know. >> what is the slogan do no harm or do no evil.

it's one of those. i can't remember which one it is. >> megyn: do no evil. >> this throws that whole slogan into question in my opinion. >> megyn: all right, stu, thank you. fox news alert, here we are jury selection about to get underway after a short recess. in the trial of george zimmerman. this case which has captured so much attention from the media and the american public. a very heavy george zimmerman who has gained over 100 pounds while awaiting trial. can you see him in court there. right there. as jury selection begins. trace gallagher live in our west coast newsroom. this is no small matter in any case but it's really no small matter in this case. jury selection. >> very true and right now, megyn, there is only a handful of protesters outside of the seminole county courthouse outside of orlando. clearly, this is one of the most racially and politically divisive trials that we have seen in this country in years.

they are now trying to seat a jury of six with four alternates from a jury pool of 500 potential jurors. legal experts are likely being questioned about race, about guns, about how much media exposure they have had in this case. the overall jury questionnaire is private. keep in mind, 11% of seminole county's population is black vs. 16% statewide. it's possible there won't be any black jurors on this case. as far as the trial, no one disputes that george zimmerman shot travon martin. zimmerman's attorney will argue that his client was in fear for his life and has the scars to prove it it prosecutors try to prove that zimmerman profiled travon martin and stopped him and then shot him. one of the biggest pieces of evidence might be the 911 call where someone is screaming in the background. listen. >> okay. does he look hurt to you. [screaming] >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on.

so. [screaming] >> so you think he is yelling help? >> yes. >> that's key because defense and prosecutors both agree that whoever was screaming was the victim in the fight and that fight led to the shooting and you'll have experts on both sides trying to testify as to who that screamer actually is, megyn. >> megyn: right, the court has not yet decided whether that expert testimony will come in. that will be a critical ruling in this case whether experts are allowed to tell the jury whether that was travon or for the other side that that was george zimmerman. we will continue to watch it and mark fuhrman will be here in just a bit to talk about the importance of jury selection in this case. trace, thank you. >> okay. >> megyn: well, conservatives are now claiming roughly 80,000 u.s. farmers are the latest victims of out-of-control agencies in washington, d.c. after the e.p.a. releases their personal information, home addresses, names, the whole bit, to what critics are calling radical

environmental groups who don't like what a lot of these farmers are doing. now they are saying this may pose an actual biosecurity threat. michelle imagine kin is next to explain why the agency did it and what it is doing to fix it. wait until you hear about the fix. plus, one of the irs managers caught up in the scandal of targeting conservative groups has suddenly been replaced. remember, we telling you about this woman. this is the woman they had sit in on all the interviews of the underling irs employees. when we talked to the inspector general congress did said why would you do that? why you have the under lings sitting there with her boss' boss and ask the underling to tell how was responsible for all of this. was that the smartest investigative technique? well, she is now gone but not forgotten. we'll update you.

.

>> megyn: former south african president nelson mandela is hospitalized today with medical problems. he has been battling lung infection for some time. he was rushed to a hospital in serious condition early saturday morning and is still in serious condition today. local media reporting say that his family have been seen coming and going from the hospital in. lung problems date back to his time as political prisoner. this is the fourth time mr. mandela has been hospitalized in the last six months. well, we are now hearing from a group of u.s. senators challenging the e.p.a., environmental protection agency on its recent leak of personal information on some 80,000 farmers. american farmers. the e.p.a. saying it, quote, accidently released the personal information of those tens of thousands of small family farmers and

ranchers to left wing environmental groups, including names, phone numbers and addresses. two dozen senators have now sent a letter to the e.p.a. demanding answers about how this could have happened and wanting to know more about their supposed fix and wait until you hear what that is. michelle malkin is a syndicated columnist and fox news contributor. michelle, so we learned about this leak in april where they -- these left wing environmental groups wanted the information and the e.p.a. said sure, here you go. everything you needed to know about 80,000 american farmers in response to which the farmers said what? what? you are giving my home address because my farm happens to be where i live. my phone number, my information to these -- in some cases far left groups? and now the senators are saying, hey, folks, you may have created a and i want to get the terms right, a biosecurity or food supply safety issue by compromising their privacy in this way. >> yeah, that's right.

oopsy how do these things just keep happening? the scandal never stops which the fish rots from the top. and credit to foxnews.com which broke the story in april which has led to this letter. i should note, of course, that it is a bipartisan group of 24 senators now putting pressure on the agency to explain itself. and this is on top of a number of scandals within just the e.p.a. itself that raised really chilling questions about their lack of any kind of care and duty when it comes to protecting the privacy of american citizens. and in this case as you said it's 80,000 livestock providers, family ranchers. and, you know, whatever fishing expedition these left wing groups were on and we're talking about the most radical green groups that have decades long history of targeting their

opponents. ranchers trying to make a living in america. there was something very smelly going on here and i greatly question the idea that it was simply an oopsy mistake that they are now trying to cover up. >> i mean, think about it, if the irs scandal involved then the irs suddenly disclosed the home addresses and phone numbers and email addresses of all the conservatives and conservative leaning groups that were applying, it would be, you know, it makes you a target. they are disclosing it to people who have an objection to what you are doing and what you stand for, and it could lead to harassment. and so now, after the complaints, the e.p.a. said, as you say, oops, let's fix it we're going to fix it and michelle the fix, in part, is well, we have asked the groups to return the documents to us. we asked if they would send it back, please. >> yes. excuse me, could you please give me that valuable information back?

as if they could just wipe it from their memory banks as well as hand over a piece of paper? >> megyn: trust us. >> it's beyond scandalous. now we are just getting into like a medic inducing behavior by these government agencies. the pew charitable trust, apparently, has given back the info. but we don't know about earth justice or the natural resources defense council. and we do have to put this in some historical perspective. remember that under the clinton administration carol browner who under the obama administration was the former green czar had actually handed over all sorts of information and cooperated illegally on lobbying campaigns with many of these same kinds of ecogroups to target republicans or free market environmentalists working on all sorts of regulatory reform. now fast forward to the obama administration whereas you say, megyn, we are not just talking about the privacy concerns here.

we are talking about a biosecurity hazard. and it's not right when groups who appointed this out it was the department of homeland security itself who said so. >> megyn: right, as you say this bipartisan group of senators is raising it in their letter. i love this part of the story. so then they asked for people to send it back and in some cases they did get it back. then they re-sent it out with information redacted except for montana and nebraska who wound up mistakenly resending a second time the personal information of the farmers. the problem is, michelle, the same government wants us to trust them. they are going to do things right. >> yeah. well, it's another piece of the distrust crap mountain. i cannot -- every single day i have my refrain, culture of corruption, every day. new eruption and as i said is just one of the problems that e.p.a. is having because, of course, you have got the email scandal with them as well as. >> richard windsor.

>> white house problems. >> megyn: michelle literally wrote the book on corruption. >> you bet. >> megyn: thank you, michelle. thed idea to target conservative groups starts women h and one group says case solved.

>> megyn: just in time for summer, we are getting reports today that monster mosquitoes are taking over parts of central florida. oh, joy. oooh, look at it. roughly the size of a quarter. holly. the big blood suckers first appeared in seminole county after tropical storm debbie. flourishing after last down our pose tropical storm andrea. spraying began several months ago and the department is treating this

infestation like any other mosquito problem. can you imagine being out for a walk with a family and bam the mosquito the size of a quarter lands on you and starts sucking your blood? hello, off. welcome deet. i don't think you are supposed to use that while you are pregnant. oh well. moving on. a new jersey police detective facing road rage going wrong. joseph walker traveling with wife and family near baltimore when he allegedly shot and killed another motorist during a roadside dispute. who is right and who is wrong here is not as simple as some might think. trace gallagher has the story. trace? >> the shooting actually happened on the onramp of route 97 annapolis, maryland. a man driving a honda felt that a man driving a white minivan cut him off. he they began driving side by side taunting and swerving toward each other.

minivan driven by joseph walker, his wife and three kids also inside pulled over on the side of the road. the honda driven by joseph harvey and a passenger also pulled over about 150 feet behind the minivan. and then the man in the honda apparently got out and started walking aggressively toward detective walker and his family. now reportedly the detective got out, identified him himself as a police officer and opened fire. firing one shot, and then firing several more shots. the autopsy shows that joseph harvey had been shot three times but none of the shots were at close range detective walker says he was trying to protect his family. is he now facing second degree murder charges along with manslaughter charges. police do have witnesses including those in the cars and the drivers. they need more to get some clarification on this, megan. they need more witnesses who might have been driving by that area to see if they can put some more context into exactly how this whole

thing went down. second degree murder and manslaughter charges against that nooj detective. >> megyn: it's never good. road rage incidents. who hasn't felt road rage. you could have killed us. and then, you know, you sort of want to sort of engage like that but it's just -- it never ends well. you just have to let it go. let it go. all right, trace. thank you. >> okay. >> megyn: one of the irs managers caught up in the scandal, targeting conservative groups has suddenly been replaced. but up next, we will show you why that doesn't mean, as we have seen so often in this irs case that she has been fired. apparently not. and a growing debate over one woman's punishment for killing a mother of two and running down a toddler. the woman who did that has received just two days in jail for her behavior. and the families of the two victims are very unhappy. that's in today's kelly's

court. and, as jury selection kicks off in the start of the george zimmerman second degree murder trial, we will ask detective mark fuhrman who, of course, worked on the o.j. simpson murder case to look how the makeup of any jury, that's what they are looking into today, they are picking the jury can affect the outcome of such a high profile trial. it's four times the detail of hd. colors become richer. details become clearer. which for a filmmaker, changes everything. because now there are no more barriers between the world that i see and the ones i can show you. the sony 4k ultra hd tv.

has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy. ♪

[ male announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. if you're eligible for medicare, you might know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help pay some of the difference. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and you never need a referral to see a specialist. so don't wait. call now to request a free decision guide to help you understand medicare. and which aarp medicare supplement plan might work best for you. there's a range to choose from,

depending on your needs and your budget. and they all travel with you -- anywhere in the country. best of all, you'll be joining the millions who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. ♪ remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you'll be able to choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. and you never need referrals. so call now to request a free decision guide and learn more. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long. >> megyn: fox news alert.

we are expecting a news conference any moment now on that shooting spree that left five people dead, plus the shooter in santa monica, california on friday. a 23-year-old gunman who started by killing his own father and brother, burning their house down in son that monica, then went on a killing and shooting spree that ended this the gunman's own death at santa monica city college. when that news conference begins, we will update you. well, new developments concerning the irs scandal and its controversial targeting of conservative groups. one of the managers caught up directly in the scandal hased suddenly and without explanation been replaced. but right now we don't know if holly paz has been moved, placed on leave or fired. why can't we know? why do they just do this stuff and they don't tell us? why is it so difficult to get straight answers? chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel is taking a shot at it. live in washington with an update on ms. paz.

this is the one in on all the meetings when the inspector general. ms. paz wanted to sit in and hear everybody talk. congress said was that the smartest thing talk to the underling in front of the boss' boss and ask the underling who told you to do it? it led to a situation some are suggesting where the underlings may have been saying like -- [ laughter ] not saying it was holly paz's fault but it but the put them in a difficult position and now she is gone? >> that's a good question. i have been asking what her status is. internal irs memo obtained by fox reveals the latest management change, megyn. holly paz being replaced in the director fairly senior post. she has been controversial because she sat in on those interviews. the inspector general conducted with employees. maloy new deputy commissioner didn't say what happened to paz she only described the new

person carolyn schuyler this way veteran irs employee 25 years. strong track record examine and management issues. the irs commissioner hinted at change of the irs speedy but would happen. >> make determinations that there are individuals, because of their mismanagement practices in this case can no longer hold positions of public trust at the irs. those reviews are ongoing again, fair, thorough but expeed yent. >> in terms of the personnel shovel stephan miller was allowed to retire after the scandal broke. lois lerner who took the fifth on capitol hill and then refused to resign was on paid administrative leave. two more staffers on leave for ethics violations for 4-million-dollar an mime conference. and a washington irs lawyer who oversaw cincinnati employees scrutinizing conservative groups according to the national review is expected to retire, megyn. >> megyn: so he is gone.

holly paz is now gone. we don't know -- i mean national review online reported that she is a barack obama donor. we know she was in on all these meetings. they don't tell us what does that mean gone? why can't we know about the accountability and whether it's related? why do we have to suppose and wonder? mike, thank you. well with, over the weekend the top democrat on the house oversight committee disputed claims that the irs scandal was connected to washington. maryland congressman elijah cummings irs workers in cincinnati were the ones who initiated the targeting of conservative gruption. he believes this case is now closed. >> based upon everything i have seen the case is solved. and if it were me, i would wrap this case up and move on to be frank with you. >> joining me now to discuss it brad blakeman and dan gerstein president of gotham ghost writers. brad, is he right? >> no. is he far from right. i will tell you he is not

the same congressman he was last week when he showed outrage in chapter and verse and went through the deficiencies at the irs. it looks like it was cory booker to me. somebody got to this congressman and told him enough is enough, back off. because there is no reason for him to have sudden epiphany that the crime is solved when so many people have yet to be interviewed, when the key witness has taken the fifth, when others are allowed to go on paid leave without being thoroughly investigated. this is far from over, and we don't have the evidence yet, we do know that it's washington connected. we just don't know how far up the food chain it is to say that the crime is solved is ridiculous. the crime isn't solved. we know that there is other abuses at the irs. that have just come to light. especially the abuses in money and spending. in addition to it targeting. so far from over. >> megyn: he came out and said, he was sort of responding to darrell issa who had been on with candy crowley the week before and released partial

transcripts of interviews they had done with irs employees, dan. this is mr. cummings trying to rebut that. we have conducted other interviews including this one which is a guy he described as republican. this is how the q and a went according to mr. cummings. question do you have reason to believe anyone in the white house was involved in the decision to screen tea party caves? answer, i have no reason to believe that question did you decide to elevate the case to your direct supervisor because you disagreed with the political views of the tea party organization identified in this one particular application? answer, no. question, did you ever have concerns, is there anything inappropriate in your view about sending up to your supervisor, high profile cases? answer, not that i would be aware of. so, cummings is now saying that's why case closed. he said it started with a tea party case. this started with this guy. it started with a screener in his unit. he was a conservative republican. your thoughts? >> well, to me this is what is wrong with washington

and the fike crow come. one hand trying to exploit it and fabricate when there is no one involved and other hand. there should be a small accounting. i'm going to agree with brad. loss of confidence in government. democrats, of all people, should want to address that head on and find out what went wrong and address it. because, we have obama care we have all of these other things coming up where we need public confidence in government for it to have any hope of it to work there is a larger interest here, and that's our goofy campaign finance system which i believe is at the root of this problem not partisan witch-hunt. this is a problem created by citizens united where we empowered the irs to make determinations about what's a political committee or not. they have no sensitivity training in this. that's why this happened. beg. >> megyn: this was happening before citizens united it just exploded.

>> citizens united made it 10 times worse. that's the problem. >> i don't want to get too far afield in the supreme court president. i want to talk about whether really have solved the case. we want to noim. who gave the orders, who sanctioned it and where the accountability. brad, what i see now is this one politician credit ago search republican by saying i did this. i thought it was a good idea. house connection. last week we had issa citing testimony from irs workers saying this is qurmt and a with issa by arrested san panel with respect to particular scrutiny given to tea party those emanated from washington is that right? and the answer was i believe so. there was another employee who told issa and the others: we were told that washington, d.c. wanted some cases. so it seems like we have conflicting testimony. >> well, especially when the person in charge takes the fifth.

if somebody is not trying to protect themselves against criminal liability, they would tell the truth and say exactly what they did. if they weren't ashamed of what they did, if they knew what they were doing wasn't wrong, why would you need the protection of the fifth amendment. now, here is another thing. now we see the democratic minority saying that there is no need to go further. we have the republicans who believe it should go further. now is the perfect time for a special prosecutor to come in, who is totally independent. to get to the bottom of this. let the chips fall where they may, but open transparency is not happening in this case. if anything you have people saying it's over when we are in the third act of an. >> is this bothering mr. cummings and democrats move on move on don't pay attention to the irs scandal anymore. >> two different things. talking about the irs there is absolutely no there. >> would don't know yet. >> of course we do. there is no evidence.

>> how do you know that. >> there is zero evidence. >> you are making things up. >> because you are not privy to the evidence, are you you don't work at the irs. you don't work at the white house. you are calling for a special prosecutor where there is serious evidence of white house wrongdoing. >> there is admitted wrongdoing, dan. >> you are conflating two things to serve your political agenda. but megyn i do want to go back to the citizens united issue because this is the heart of the problem. we have an extra constitutional decision that has. >> megyn: i really don't want to relitigate citizens united we have had the debate whether the 503 c 4 is expansive. >> irs in charge of making decisions they have no business making decisions. >> megyn: question now is whether we do have all the answers in connection with with the irs scandal. >> i already said we don't have all the answers and we should have a further investigation. >> megyn: the question i asked after that why do you

think mr. cummings is suddenly so -- is it because they think there is some there there. >> this is typical washington behavior. they want to make candle go away. rather than welcoming robust debate about what the real issue is. >> let's get to the bottom of it of what happened to holly paz? holly who? we don't get to know. they just like disappear. okay problem -- anyway, all right. boy the wafs, did you know that the person running the irs cincinnati office is only 12? she looks very young in her photo. all right, guys. thank you. >> thanks. >> megyn: we are watching live right now as the jury selection is resuming in the george zimmerman murder trial. 100 potential jurors in the poll right now. look up how the makeup of this jury not could effect will effect and control the entire outcome of this trial. there is no more important heart of a case than the jury selection and former

homicide detective mark fuhrman joins us live next on that. plus, ugly poll numbers on the president as the pressure mounts use spying technique. majority of americans say they do not like. we will break down the numbers. we had never used a contractor before

and didn't know where to start. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. no company can pay to be on angie's list, so you can trust what you're reading. angie's list is like having thousands of close neighbors where i can go ask for personal recommendations. that's the idea. before you have any work done, check angie's list. from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more, angie's list -- reviews you can trust. i love you, angie. sorry, honey. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop.

can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap.

>> megyn: fox news alert. live pictures now from inside the courtroom at the george zimmerman murder trial where jury selection is officially underway. we are watching the proceedings unfold before our very eyes. you have got to love florida because they left the cameras in for the tv

folks like us. mark fuhrman is going to join us live now to talk about the importance of this process is he a former l.a.p.d. homicide detective. these cases are often won or lost at the stage we are watching right now where they pick the jury, mark. >> >> absolutely, megyn. and i think unfortunately this is the whole case. it's not a direct evidence case. it's kind of a super circumstantial case. there is really no eyewitnesses. there is no forensic evidence. there is the statements of george zimmerman and a dead victim or dead suspect, however or which side you are on you are going to describe travon martin, but that's the circumstance and i think it's going to be very difficult to do anything in this case without a favorable jury pro-defense or pro-prosecution. >> megyn: yeah. they have an initial jury poll of 100 people. they will screen them based on jury questionnaires. they will bring them in

about 21 of them. questioned by the defense attorney and prosecution to see if they are suitable for this trial. that's what's going to happen for this trial. could take days or weeks they say to pick an appropriate jury. they are not going to be sequestered but remain anonymous in the course of this trial, this jury. and it would be, you know, it would be foolish to pretend or any other criminal case, mark, that the racial makeup of the jury is irrelevant. that is absolutely going to be on the minds of the prosecution and the defense attorney whether they will admit to it or not. we had trace gallagher come on earlier and give us the numbers. 11% of this county's population is black. 16% in the entire state black. and one long wood attorney out there who is an assistant state attorney in seminole county for 12 years says she never tried a jury out here with a jury that was less than 90% white. it looks like there will not be a huge racial imbalance in favor of an african-american jury here. >> well, megyn, when you

look at it, isn't it kind of a pathetic state of affairs when we put the race composition of a jury before the evidence in a case and we case, and we talk about, well, if we have a predominantly black jury, then the chances of conviction are good. if we have predominantly white jury, then the chances of conviction are remote. and you lock at this case, this is a very hard case to prosecute. i think we see the underlying reasons why we're in this position. and as certainly george zimm zimmerman is not without fault, but certainly can be prosecute this case or are you creating something to disappoint the really uninformed audience, whether -- it doesn't matter what race they are, the uninformed audience that doesn't understand the law enforcement investigatory or judicial system in so much as what you can and

can't do. >> yeah. and you have not been easy on george zimmerman. but you also have serious doubts about whether he will be convicted. up next, we will talk about evidence that they will try to back door in. ♪ ♪

so you can make easy, no-fee reloads with cash and checks... and know you're not on your own. so you can get the reloadable card that keeps up with you. chase liquid. so you can.

jury selection in the trayvon martin george zimmerman trial continue now. second degree murder. george zimmerman facing charges. the lawyers are at the bench. it appears to be a sidebar with the judge. we will continue to watch that, as we watch another legal fight unhold. mark fuhrman back with us now. both sides want to offer expert testimony that voice heard on this 911 tape, that caught part of the confrontation between these two men, is their client. prosecution want to say it is trayvon martin. not really their client, but the descendant in the case.

and the defense wants to say it is zimmerman. let me play you the relevant portion. >> 911, police, fire and medical. >> i'm not sure, there is screaming going on outside. i can't see them. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what is going on. >> both sides want to offer expert testimony saying that is my guy calling for help. that is my guy calling for help. now, marking with the defn attorney, in order to prove it is his guy, zimmerman, wants to offer videotape that has already been excluded, we're told. but not totally excluded. she may let it in if it becomes relevant. of trayvon martin filming two guys fighting on the street. watch, and it is trayvon's voice. >> now, i ask you, i ask you, mark fuhrman, whether this is actually relevant or whether this is the defense attorney's

attempt to back door into evidence a tape that the judge has already said, she doesn't want. >> well, i think that the defense is trying to back door this evidence in. but i think eventually it'll come in. in some way. somebody will open the door on the prosecution side. but when you look at the evidence as far as the call and whose voice that is, you can't let one expert on one side testify it is their client and then the other say that you can't have your expert testify that it is your client. so that's ridiculous. >> the judge hasn't made up her mind on that. >> all right, mark, thank you. up next, the director of national intelligence lie under oath?

new polls suggest mounting pressure on president obama to justify the administration's sweeping surveillance of private phone records, credit cards and internet activity. brand new hour here. welcome, everyone nearly two third of people say they are opposed to the program that collects people's phone records. the rest are either in favor or not sure. meantime, another rasmussen poll says the people don't trust the government's ability to abide by the constitution when it comes to our privacy rights. a situation the president himself described as a, quote, problem, just this past friday.

>> if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust congress and don't trust federal judges, to make sure that we're abiding by the constitution, due process and rule of law, then we're going to have problems here. >> our fox news digital politicseder to, host of power play, i think we can all agree with that sentiment, right? we can agree, that if there is not a healthy trust in government, and there isn't. >> i believe the president thought he was making a rhetorical kind of statement. but as your mm-hm duly indicated, counsellor, that's what the president offered as a hypothetical, people left, right and center, don't trust the government to properly protect their liberties in the effort to protect their liberties. that's how it is. if the president doesn't want it

address that, if he want to have that as some remote possibility or hypothetical situation, he wants it take steps that are necessary to protect these programs. >> we have benghazi and changing story on that. we have the irs scandal. we have groups targeting, even though the commissioner said they haven't been targeted. then we have the press issues with james rosen. now we have this. and even last hour, we talked about how the epa got caught sending out private data on 80,000 farmers that it never should have sent out. once again, oh, a mistake, so sorry. trust us, we will fix it. on and on it goes as the government gets more and more bloated. so kwet is whether there is anything at this point, chris, that president obama our congressional leaders, if a court judge were ever to come out and speak, could spay something to sway the concerns of the american people. >> well, we're certainly not

likely to find out in the case of president obama, who in past has been unwilling to risk his own capital to risk things like double surge in afghanistan. the use of drones to kill people, including american citizens. generally he lets the republicans fight it out, take the heat on that, keep his own party quiet, then sort of drift. but on this one, if you just take this one alone, what we're being told by the people who are in charge of watching the program, the people who provide secret oversight for secret programs, and that includes members of congress and beth parties, including the president, is that the uninstance where a guy with a patchy beard, 29 years old and high school drop out, had enough access to get a hold of information to shake the very national security community to its core was the only time that ever happened. that was the only time that ever happened with this guy. and it strains and so now we are told everything's okay. it is going to be fine. this is one off. well, it is pretty tough to

believe. >> the president came out on friday and sort of said, like, i'm glad we're having this chat. you know, it is time for national dialogue. and i just had that speech about security and drones and gitmo the other day where i was saying, let's start a conversation -- he didn't want to start a conversation on there. >> no. >> you tell me, was that disingenuous? because he doesn't want to talk about this. none of the lawmakers seem to want to talk about this. and there is a question about whether now we will see president obama come out and offer a full defense of this program and offer the details that are still missing. >> well, ma'am, we have to grade on a sliding scale as it relates to being disengin being disinge.

>> it is probably not fully true, however, the president is hoping, i would imagine that we can have the, he can slow walk this, and not have a sharp discussion but have the discussion that eric holder and the people at the justice department want it have about targeting reporters, which is to say, let's em panel a roundtable. let's stroke our chins and have a discussion. but the truth is, to your discussion, if the president cannot summon enough political will or courage to do for this what he would not do with afghanistan, what he would not do with drones, it increases the likelihood that next president will be of a libertarian bent who will smash prot grm all together. so defenders of this stuff, people on the right, defending this practice, they better hope that president obama bales them out. if not, the american voting public as those polls show may decide they've had quite enough. >> that's the thing. 59% oppose this program. though this is taken into it first being revealed. it will take a while to fully

understand it and then the people's defense, the details have not been fully released and discussed yet in a way that they, you know, are ready to necessarily pronounce their final judgment. having said all that, last question for you. people who seem the most upset about all of this are on the left. in fact, saying people on the right, i'm saying it seems that left is most vocal about this. that is a group that president cannot afford to lose. that is the group that helped him overall have pretty descent ratings. and what we have been talking about the last couple of months and terror attack and all these things and so he cannot afford to have erosion in that group, can he, ris? >> no. and neither can his party afford to take any more hits in terms of their credibility with a mid term election. the senate got a lot more real last week and now democrats are going to be force need a tough situation. are they going to call their own president into account? are they going to tow a very

difficult line here and demand accountability from their own president on an issue that matters to their base? if they do, it could divide their party. if they don't, voters may throw them out on their ear next year. >> you raise a good point. there is irony there. they can switch back to republicans who started this program what what we know under president bush in 2006. here we are in 2013. and there is a much stronger libertarian streak than it had seven years ago. thank you, sir. >> you got it. >> by way of background here, i want to bring you information. we are told the most sensitive info came from a group called prism. it had a power point presentation allegedly used as a training manual. this is revealed to the press. to learn how to tap into the servers of companies like google, apple, and facebook. prism, that's the internet spine, if you will. and the most controversy buzz that reviews content. that looks at what is in your

e-mail. and you know, your actual communications if you're skyping and discussing something with a family member. not like the phone record thing, which is just a record of who you called. right? i mean, both are controversial but one more so. all of these internet companies deny any involvement in or knowledge of the programs existence. so they say we were not knowingly cooperating with the government on this. meantime, there are new questions today about what should happen to the man at the center of the leaks. 29-year-old edward snowden came out this weekend as the administration was saying, we're going after the leaker, and said, it was me. i did it because i was working in the public interest. >> i think that public is owed an explanation of the motivations behind the people who make these disclosures that are outside of the democratic model. when you are subverting the power of government, that is a fundamentally dangerous thing to democracy. and if you do that in secret consistn'tly, you know, as the

government does, when it wants it benefit from a secret action that it took, it will kind of give its officials the mandate to go, hey, tell the press about this thing and that thing. so the public is on our side. but they rarely, if ever, do that when abuse occurs. that falls to an individual citizens but they're typically maligned. >> jay carney, white house spokesman was asked about edward snowden at the white house briefing. they declined to comment on him, saying these leaks are the subject of a criminal investigation at the department of justice. is mr. snowden a hero or traitor? we will have a fair and balanced debate coming up in just a bit. and fox news alert now. they pushed back this experted news conference on the shooting spree that left five people dead. plus the shooter. in california. it should start any time now. police say 23-year-old john

zawahri killed his father and brother before car jacking a woman and opening fire on a public bus and people on the street. the gunman then ran inside a library at santa monica college where police killed him in a fierce shootout. adam is live at santa monica college with the very latest. adam? >> reporter: yeah, megyn. you can still see the mark on the sidewalk where they dragged his body. it is literally three or four feet behind me. that where his body was dragged out of the library and left there while the investigation continued freeway afternoon and into the evening. we will give you a live look at where the press conference was to take place. we are told it has been pushed ten to 15 minute. we don't know why that has happened but we are getting more details from authorities. this is the college police force giving this conference. not the santa monica police force. they do work together closely and especially as this shooting took place on friday. they will go to great lengths to

tell you, it went a college shooting. it started some place else and ended up here on the college campus. the police force tells us there was a weapons cache, if jonathan zawahri had, all full, that would have been 1300 rounds he could have fired. he didn't fire of those, but he could have. over the weekend, the third random victim passed away. she was a daughter. marcela franco driving with her father, carlos franco, 68-year-old grounds keeper here. she was going to cool here. she was coming here on friday it buy books. it was finals time. the wife and mother came here to speak out over the weekend. as you can imagine, the family is heart broken. >> my husband was a very wonderful husband. and a nice dad. he was very dedicated with marcela.

she was my husband's little girl. >> there are campus advisers here on campus for the rest of the week until friday we're told to advise any student who might need help p.m. also there is a memorial and that press conference should begin in the next few minutes. back to you in new york. >> adam, thank you. new questions about whether the top intel official is adding to credibility problems on spying. did he lie under oath? and does that pose a problem for us when he asked us now to trust him. ambassador john bolton is live next to talk about national intelligence director james cleber. and a sentence handed down no a woman, who ran a red light, killing a woman here, the nanny, and the toddler she was watching. the driver of the car, did they

receive adequate punishment? p. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a free decision guide. with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that

accepts medicare patients... plus, there are no networks, and you'll never need a referral to see a specialist. join the millions who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp... and provided by unitedhealthcare insurance company, which has over 30 years of experience behind it. with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide.

fox alert looking at the white house, where president obama is about to make jay furman, one of the key architect of the 200 the stimulus package, would be in charge of broefing the president on various economic data, monthly jobs report and so on. this event is streaming live if would you like to watch it on foxnews.com. fox news alert, also breaking from the white house, administration is refusing now to comment on the man who leaked the info about the -- about the nsa spying on americans. this is the wake the news the government has been doing it for a long time, six or seven years. the obama administration nonetheless asking for us to trgovernment. meantime, even those defending the nsa spying program say this

statement from our intel chief don't exactly help. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans. >> no, sir. >> it does not? >> not wittingly. >> there are cases where they could inadd vert lint perhaps collect, but not wittingly. >> the u.s. ambassador to the united nations and fox contributor, that is march, not like years ago. so it appears the director of national intelligence was caught in a lie, misleading, not being forthright. you know as well as i do, ambassador, that there is a way it handle things like that. i understand our top intel officials can't reveal everything they know, but there is a proper way when you are asked something inappropriate for a public setting, to handle

a question. did he handle that properly? >> no. but i have to say, the question wasn't proper either. this isn't gotcha with the national security. the senator should know the only possible answer would need to be revealed in a closed session. and if what he really wanted was the information, there's certainly a way it could have been provided to him. the fact is, nsa, gets information on foreigners. and foreigners, this may be a surprise, sometimes call americans. when a foreign terrorist calls a person in the united states, that call can be scooped up. and thank goodness. >> but it is not just that. >> no, but this is important. the answer to that question is complicated and can only be given under a classified session. so doesing it in a public way is inviting an embarrassed

administration official. and i'm not defending clapper. i think he made hash of his job. but it is inviting an official to say, well, mumble, mumble, senator, i can only answer that in closed session which makes it look like he has something to hide. so i come back to my more basic point, playing gotcha with this kind of national information is a mistake. >> i got it. but this is the director of national intelligence and there is way of handling any difficult questioning without lying under oath. i practiced law for nine years. you lie under oath, you take it to a different level. they want us to trust the program saying, look, it has congressional oversight. it was the attempt at congressional oversight and they're not being forthright. >> two things. i said a minute ago, clapper had made hash of his job. let me say it again. clapper has made hash of his job.

that answer fits into the category. it was obviously the wrong answer. second, nobody should take an argument from the administration that we should trust them to be a defense to the program. but what nsa has been doing here. the subject of this recent his hysteria in the past couple days, is a part of program approved by congress, approved and systematically examined by congress, carried out by the executive branch with the opinion of the justice department that its actions were legal and proper and reviewed by an article three court. so that company, by my count, is three branches of government approving the program. i don't know if we need more branches of government but those are the three we've got. >> i don't think that is the solution. understood. but the question i'm trying to get at here is whether this administration would have been much better positions.

let's say, 7, 8, to 10 months ago. saying they never touched those benghazi talking points, not true. before we were told by eric holder, i never heard of the prosecution after journalist for disclosure. that's not true. at the time he talked about prosecuting james rosen. he knew it, but we didn't. at the time we had the irs commissioner coming out, saying we are not targeting conservatives. not true. now we have clapper on tape and the administration in the wake of this revelation, even if you like the program, turns around and tells us, we got it, trust us? >> there is a key difference between the three scandals and the nsa program. in the case of benghazi, the administration was quite likely covering its political posterior, weeks before an election. in the case of the irs investigation of conservatives, we don't know all of the answers, but it looks like persecuting the administration's

opponents. with the subpoenas of the journalist, there does seem to be an interesting pattern who've gets investigated. the nsa issue is one where all three branches of government have -- >> i got it. thank you. we'll be right back. ♪ with diabetes, it's tough to keep life balanced. i don't always have time to eat like i should. and the more i focus on everything else,

the less time i have to take care of me. that's why i like glucerna shakes. they have slowly digestible carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes. glucerna products help me keep everything balanced. [ golf clubs clanking ] [ husband ] i'm good! well, almost everything. [ male announcer ] glucerna. delicious shakes and bars. helping people with diabetes find balance. humans. even when we cross our "ts" and dot our "i's", we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness with our auto policies. if you qualify, your rates won't go up due to your first accident. because making mistakes is only human, and so are we. we also offer new car replacement, so if you total your new car, we'll give you the money for a new one. call liberty mutual insurance at... and ask us all about our auto features, like guaranteed repairs, where if you get into an accident

and use one of our certified repair shops, the repairs are guaranteed for life. so call... to talk with an insurance expert about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy?

we have breaking news now on the deadly building collapse that killed six people last week in philadelphia. prosecutors say a grand jury will be convened to look into what happened here. this as we continue to learn more informing about the crane operator who now stands charged with manslaughter. trace gallagher has the update. >> reporter: in the philadelphia d.a. says the grand jury is the only way to completely and appropriately investigate this collapse. fingers have been pointed at

everybody, including the city of philadelphia for allowing people to be inside. they are pointing fingers at the demolition company itself. but d.a. says this probe by the grand jury will be extensive and all-inclusive. listen. >> the grand jury may investigate the myriad of municipal agencies and departments, policies and protocols. surrounding the collapse. as you mentioned, the back hoe operator has been arrested and charged with six count of involuntarily manslaughter among a bunch of other counts for allegedly being high on marijuana when the collapse happened. the man you see there was apparently operating the excavator during the key point of that demolition when the building gave way. he has a lengthy police record, including drugs and weapon charges, two stint in prison, and now philadelphia mayor michael nutter says he with like

to see him serve a third stint in prison, a very, very long one. we should also mention that two survivors have filed lawsuits against the demolition company and as you might imagine, there will be many more in the wake of that. >> all right, trace, thank you. a growing debate over a decision to sentence one woman to just two days in jail. after she is found to have killed a mother of two and injured a toddler. in the process. we will show you what they think led to the crash and how that impacted the case in a fair and balanced kelly's court, coming up. 21-year-old high school drop out just changed the world we live in with a single leak about government surveillance. but is edward snowden a hero or traitor? both sides of that debate, next. >> attorney general, would you go after him? >> in a new york minute. >> why? >> because he has broken the law. he broken faith with his countrymen. broken faith with our political system.

now to our top story. former cia and nsa staffer who revealed himself as the source of the leaks on government spying program. 29-year-old edward snowden said he acted in the public's interest and that the extent of the surveillance that we've now learned of goes far beyond what most people suspect. >> analysts at any time can target anyone.

any select or anywhere. where those communications will be picked up depends on the range of the censor networks and the authorities that that analyst is empowered with. not all analysts have the ability to target everything. but i sit at my desk, certainly have the authority to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal judge to even the president, if i had a personal e-mail. >> wow. joining me now, simon rosenburg. president and founder of think tank and former clinton adviser and author of "what the bleep just happens." he went on to say, you are not aware of what is possible. the extent of their capabilities is horrifying. if i want to see your e-mail through your wife's phone, i can just use intercepts. can i get phone records, pass words, credit cards. that begs the question which you are here to discuss, which is traitor or hero. simon? >> traitor.

the more that we learn about what has happened here, the more upset i think the american people should be. clint greenwauld said this morning on another television network that he's been given information like the names of agents, clandestined names around the world, and that he will decide what gets released. we have these revelations that have come out at a time which seemed max mally designed to to undermined the president's position in a significant position with the chinese about their behavior on-line and how they have stole general secrets from the united states. and it seemed to be the maximum time to disrupt that and he did it while he was in china, right. this is a bad situation. we have to come down hard on this guy. we will see how the government responds in coming days. >> what do you think, monica? >> i don't disagree with simon

to this extent. though i think the question is, is he a hero or traitor, i think it is a bit too stark. i think it is much more nuance. ai agree with simon that he has done damage to our national security, in giving our enemies heads-up and untold cases we are looking into as for as terrorism and pending tlets and so on. but you can also be on the side of wanting our national security secrets protected as well as deeply concerned about potential abuses of these surveillance programs. what he said yesterday in his interview with the guardian and glenn greenwald is that we have the infrastructure of oppression and he raisees a lot of serious concerns about the extent to which the federal government may be intruding on your privacy. done in the name of national security. i agree with simon.

he should be extradited to the wall. it is a little more nuance than the conversations we have been having. >> there are some discussions on-line. i'm looking at one piece written by cnn.com. that is entitled, edward snowden is a hero. and it talks about the risked he had. he had a job paying about $200,000 a year. living in hawaii. 29-year-old college drop-out making a lot of dough and didn't have to do this but felt he didn't want to live in a country in which quote our very human sit compromised by the blind implementation of machines in the name of making us safe. that's from the author, not from the leaker. simon, he cam out one of the things he said was, the documents i leaked reveal that the nsa routinely lies. in response to congressional inquiries about the scope of

america. he with just played that clapper point, so he has a point. >> there are tools to spy on their own people and to spy on people who live in other countries. we never had a situation like this before in human history. we have to ensure that american people have faith and confidence in the way the government is managing this new power. we have to do more. and i'm sorry this is not discussed today. we are to do more to ensure that countries like rush w countri countries like russia and china, who are not most friendly on the stage, are not using power to influence things here in the united states. the theft of american property by the chinese is the largest amount of theft of goods or property in history -- >> crazy. >> yeah, it is crazy.

and we're not even talking about that now. we would have been talking about that. but the timing of the leaks seem to be massively designed to undermine the united states at a moment of discussion with the chinese the first time our president was willing to sit down with chinese and confront them over what they are doing in united states. that is not being debated today. we are talking about snowden. i'm is up jet about that. >> does it feed our moral authority. are these countries going to turn around and say, why don't you worry less about us spying on you and worry about about you spying on your own people. >> right. i agree with that, look, i also don't think it is a coincidence that mr. snowden fled to hong kong and he may defect to the chinese. so he falls into this gray area. beijing can say, we won't allow him to be extradited to the united states because we want it

flip him and gain whatever intel we can gain from him. but all of these matters. >> we don't know how it'll work out legally. but the discussion people are having is do we have the trite know this, simon. i went on a rally thursday night. he said, what is the big headline of the day. i said, that this is happening. that it came out that this is happening. there was a report in 2006 that it was happening but the administration does not confirm it the way it did this time p. then it sort of died out. now it is confirmed and broader than we knew. do we have a right to know that and to debate and discuss it? >> yes and i think you could argue that if any good comes this and certainly this looks like there is much more harm than good. we will now have a debate. we are having it now and we will talk about what our capabilities are. are mechanisms in place. as john bolton said, i don't often agree with bolton but --

>> hasn't this story made str n strange bed fellows? like you two. >> look at how many checks and balances there are here. the question is, are there enough checks and balances as to whether a democrat or republican president, democrat or american congress, do people feel they can trust the system put into place not to intervene. and to be clear about something snowden said in the interview is slightly misleading and getting talked about in chat rooms, is that he said he had the power and authorities. well, that's actually not true. he would have needed court order and higher level authority to go in and look at somebody. >> capability is is one thing. >> he would have broken the law. >> and there is push back on that from members of the intel committee in congress saying, he is overstating what he -- capability to do is one thing. but you know, actually doing it

is another. and interesting to think of greenwald sitting there holding names of agent, undercover operatives, whose lives can be in danger if his files are compromised or he decides to publish this information. i mean, there is a reason why we make people like mr. snowden take an oath not to do this. >> that's exactly right. he will be facing that charge. it may not be a treason charge or even an espionage charge, but it could be disclosing top secret information, which he was sworn to uphold. and he violated that. so he could be facing that charge. but simon raises an important point about trust. i think that's why we are having this conversation. when the patriot act was first passed, there was a general understanding that these kinds of surveillance programs when they were disclosed during bush years, they targeted terrorists and suspected terrorists. now we find out that no, there is a huge drag net in which every american in a sense

suspected terrorist or not is caught up in this. this is why we are having this d conversation. who sanctioned that broadening of this. >> and just to be clear, and with all due respect to our authorities in power, it is not clear. so i'm going to try it make clear what i understand. it seems to be that the drag net collects the data. they get the records of you and you and me and everybody watching. but they can't then look at records and provide analysis of the records. unless they take another step because they have reason to believe that we're talking to some foreign terrorists. >> right. >> i understand it is still in place. the only thing giving me pause is when i heard president obama talking about how if they want to listen to your phone calls they have to go to court. they made it sound that's the only time they take the extra step. i don't think that right. i look at clapper's written statement. i look at dianne feinstein and they both seem to tell us, no, even to review the information

we collected, we have to go to court. we'll see. this is one of the reasons why people want to know more and find out exactly what is happening before they make up their minds. thank you for a thoughtful debate. appreciate it. up next, 48 hours in jail for killing a woman and hitting a toddler. the punishment fit the crime? that's next. hungry for the best?

it's eb. want to give your family the very best in taste, freshness, and nutrition? it's eb. want to give them more vitamins, omega 3s, and less saturated fat? it's eb. eggland's best eggs. eb's. the only eggs that make better taste and better nutrition... easy. eggland's best eggs. better taste. better nutrition. better eggs. it's eb. better eggs. ♪

♪ (vo) purina cat chow. 50 years of feeding great relationship to support strong bones. and the brand most recommended by... my doctor. my gynecologist. my pharmacist. citracal. citracal. [ female announcer ] you trust your doctor. doctors trust citracal.

back in session on tdocket today, the sleep deprived

mother. ran a red light and injuried a nanny and killed a toddler in san diego. christine padilla said she had just given birth one day earlier and did not see the light change. the nanny who she hit, shown here, was thrown 30 feet in the air. and pronounced dead. the 14-month-old boy she was caring for was seriously hurt with a skull fracture and broken bones among other injuries. now that driver is sentenced to just 48 hours in jail. does the punishment fit the crime? my heart goes out to all involved here, including the woman who drove the suv. >> absolutely. >> she said, she had just given birth 33 hours before the crash and was extremely sleep deprived. and the family of the victims and particularly the victim of the little toddler says, too

bad. that's not enough time. >> it is not an excuse. saying you are sleep deprived, you just had a bibaby, fine. that doesn't mean you get into a car, run over a woman, toss here 33 feet into the air. just like you say, well, i drank too much or had too many or drove drunk. that's not an excuse. >> you can understand being sleep deprived. you can have an understanding driving while too tired. i think most people can relate it that. but are you held to the consequences of the bad decisions? >> to some extent, leeyes. i don't disagree with lise.

but nothing you subscribe to her will change the outcome. i have tried to represent someone going through something like this. and this person was not drinking or driving. wasn't speeding. wasn't texting. wasn't out lieding a cell phone. the probation department did recommend house arrest only with no jail time and this woman accepted responsibility for her actions and showed extreme remorse. >> and in her defense, too, if it is relevant, i don't know, she also has a new baby at home that needs its mother. >> it is not relevant. i hate to sound like the mean persecutor here, but it is not. take mark's example. if you were to say, you can't fix the crime for what the person has already done. you can't fix that outcome. the person is still dead. okay. then would you say, let all murderers go? let them all get off with 48 hours? people get more time for shoplifting than this woman got. >> the theory behind punishing someone in a criminal case, is,

yes, you know, punishment. exact punishment on a person and try to show them how wrong it was. but it is also in terms of society, sending a message to society that certain actions are not acceptable and will have severe consequences. >> i agree. and if it wasn't prosecuted, that would be a mischaracterization. if she wasn't given any jail time, that would send a message. but for 35-year-old, never had any contact in the system, going to jail for one hour, certainly full two days, for her, it is punishment. load her up on hundreds of hours of community service so she can speak to the public. whether truck drivers, high school students, don't get behind the wheel when you're tired. >> it could be at least ten years in jail for this mother. she was facing misdemeanor manslaughter. but anything would be, you know,

relatively minor in terms after jail sentence. >> the fact she was charged with misdemeanor, which as you say carries up it a year versus felony -- >> that's what it was. >> item just saying, i would have charged it as felony manslaughter. and the mother of the little toddler came out and said, you are literally inches away from murdering, from killing my little boy. they have already filed a civil lawsuit against her. they say she was reckless and negligent. we have seen prosecutions of mothers and fatheres who left their children in cars on hot summer days and truly just out of negligence caused that child's death or injury. and this woman, you know, negligence, gross negligence, whatever you want to call it, caused the death of a woman and nearly the death after child. >> i'm not minimizing these horrendous horrible facts. i've seen cases, however, where mothers do commit gross negligence, straight probation, house arrest, which again is what is recommended by those who

knew her unique cirques. the probation department. and had spoken to those involved. >> she is getting three years probation as well. but the families are not happy. i have to run because we are up against a break. >> she should have gotten more time. >> we'll be right back. a programmable thermostat, very smart, saves money. ♪ cash money sorry. i see you have allstate claim free rewards, for every year you don't have a claim, you'll get money off your home insurance policy. put it towards... [ glass shatters ] [ girl ] dad! dad! [ girl screams ] noise canceling headphones? [ nicole ] that's a great idea. [ male announcer ] home insurance that saves you money for not having a claim? that's allstate home insurance with claim free rewards. talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rin ] and let the good life in.

talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rin ] so you can make easy, no-fee reloads with cash and checks... ♪ ♪ and know you're not on your own. so you can get the reloadable card that keeps up with you. chase liquid.

so you can.

>> megyn: targeting the white house and new york city mayor michael bloomberg. tv actress and mother of five, shannon richardson, facing charges after admitting 0 mailing poison-laced letters, after trying to pin it on her husband. proving the old saying -- we're all writing a song. >> shannon tried to implicate her husband by pointing out to authorities she found brown beans with speckles and sticky

notes with address0s mayor bloomberg and president obama. then she failed a polygraph and her story had a number of inconsistencies, for example, internet searches for his sin ricin was done on the computer while the husband was at work, and she printed the envelopes and made the but her husband forced her to mail them. the husband's attorney said she tried to frame him because he was divorcing her. >> the first hurdle is over, there were initially three options, he did it, she did it, or they did it. we have her involved and now it's they did it or she did it, and we're trying to prove she did and it not us. >> the house the couple lives in had a number of samples test positive for ricin. shannon richardson is pregnant with her sixth child, five from

other relationships, she appeared in the showtime tv show, "walking dead" as well as "vampire dire riz" bought the producers have no idea who she is. like, who? she has been charged and is facing ten years in prison. >> handling ricin while pregnant and i'm worry it about deet to protect myself from a mosquito. >> a lot of people are tweeting me -- i'm going to avoid it anyway. we'll be right back. it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain.

little things anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. ensures support, a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like. sooner than you'd think. you die from alzheimer's disease. we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call or donation adds up to something big.

>> megyn: thanks for watch, studio b with shepard starts now. >> shepard: the news begins anew. the man who said he blew the lid off the government's top secret spying program is now in hiding as some top lawmakers call for his arrest. you'll hear his side of the story and hear from the man whom you know, who says this man is an american hero. then the trial finally starting in the case that divided central florida and much of the nation. this map's trial, meeting the potential jurors who are to decide his fate. a whole new government leak. creating new headaches for the state department. it reportedly involves drugs, sex assaults, even