left. thank you for being with us. greta van susteren is standing by to go plief "on the record." we'll see you back here tomorrow night. take it away. >> we should be concerned about what the government is doing under the guise of keeping us safe. >> if people can't trust the executive branch and don't trust federal judges to make sure that we are abiding by the constitution, due process and rule of law, then we are going to have some problems here. >> there is a role for congress here. we need to have these checks and balances. we want to protect our civil liberties, we want to protect our nation from a terrorist attack. but there is a fine line of greater accountability and

transparency. >> do we really want to trust government? we have a government that appears to target people based on their political beliefs. i don't want my phone records given to an administration that i don't trust. >> i behind my desk, certainly have the authority to wire-tap anyone from you to your accountant, to a federal judge and even the president. >> the attorney general, would you go after him? >> in a new york minute. >> why? >> because he has broken the law. he has broken faith with his countrymen, he has broken faith with our political system. >> even if you are not doing anything wrong, you are being watched and reported. >> when you consider the latest scandals, whether it be the irs targeting conservatives or the a.p., being targeted by the justice department, and the fox news reporters, it really makes you wonder -- you have to ask yourself this question -- can you thrust administration with your phone records? >> you can't come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agency and be completely free from risk

because they're such powerful adversaries that no one can meaningfully oppose them. if they want to get you, they will get you in time. >> this is the biggest snoopest enterprise against americans ever. that's the take-away. that's the fundamental point. >> the snooping, the targeting, the secrets and even alleged coverup, do you trust your government? allen west is here. ltd. me ask you that question -- do you trust your government? >> i think it's very hard to have trust in the government right now when -- we haven't even talked about the debt and the deficit and all of these things going on. when you look at what happened in benghazi. some people say it's a joke and it's irrelevant. four americans lost their lives. we don't leave our men and women behind. when you look at irs scandal and the fact that we have agencies that are going after individuals because of their political beliefs and they have a first-amendment right to petition their government for

grievances, yet you have jim mcdermott that believes that they don't have that. you look at the department of justice, with the a.p. scandal, james rosen, you know, one minute you are saying, mr. attorney general, you knew nothing about targing reporters. then we find out that you signed your affidavit on that and we are supposed to believe that you are a fair, equivocator of law and justice. but then, it comes down to this and they say it comes back to health and human services, kathleen sebelius, soliciting for funds to fund obamacare privately. it's thing after thing after thing. but if this nsa surveillance was so important, then how did nadal hassan happen? how did the tsarnaev brothers happen? how did a man from tennessee, travel to somalia and yemen and come back and shoot two soleiers. anwar al-awlaki.

the muslim brotherhood, as far as purging, training materials in this country. i don't see where this nsa surveillance is keeping us safe. >> what about the contractors? we talk about snowden, the man who admits to being the leak for nsa. he worked for bruce allen. he apparently has his fingerprints all over our government, whether it's the current head of dni clapper, the former dni -- he went to allen. he had a $2 million government with the contract, no-bid and cost the taxpayers, $70 million. two-thirds are owned by the carlyle group. they are spending a fortune. apparently, there is not much supervision. >> well, you know, one thing -- i did -- i actual, we went through a lot of scrutiny as a contract worker. i was the same as any member of the united states military overseas. we wore the uniform, we could not carry weapons.

but some people are getting favoritism in a lot of defense contracts. he is a huge defense contractor. but they are looking the same. you can see goldman sachs all over the treasury department and our financial institutions. again, when you talk about trusting your government, you start to see the nepotism and the cronyism and you start to see the arroganceful you can come out and lie to the american people and you can get a promotion and become the national security adviser or in the case of victor naneumann who said she had nothing to do with the intelligence talking points. they are looking to make hur the assistant secretary of state and lois lerner who gives her statement, pleads the fifth and goes on a tax-payer-funded, paid vacation. and even more so, i think have you a distrust on the media outlets that are covering the stories and keeping the american people in the dark. >> it seems like a malignancy. we covered the story in a 2010 conference in arizona, social

security was spending all of our money. everyone was scandalized and we had the gsa, apparently they hadn't learned from the social security. and now the congress, spending $4 million in a conference. have you americans who are at home, $1,000 to most americans is a lot of money. it makes the difference of whether they get the roof fixed or the kids get uniforms, go to the grocery store. even at all of that level, we have lawyers at the s.e.c. who were busted for downloading porn on our dime -- it's everywhere you look. >> the newest scandal that came out, where the security detail for the secretary of state, hillary clinton. they are talking about all the things they did with, you know, certain houses of ill repute, across the country and also overseas. so, all of these things are adding up. so the american people are starting to ask themselves, who is running washington, d.c.? no one is being held responsible or accountable. think about the hypocrisy of all

of those uniformed generals lined up before the armed services committee getting berated about sexual military assault, but no one is taking responsibility for anything that is happening in this administration. >> how do we turn this around? what's the answer? if the government is so replete with problem, in terms of trust and confidence, how do you fix it? >> david axelrod said, how can you expect the president to know everything, when the government's so big? first of all, we need to get the size and scope of the government in a manageable form. the american people have to start thinking about who they are sending to washington, d.c. and stop voting for the "american idol" type or the shiny new thing. we have to get courage and competence and character and commitment restored back to this incredible federal government. >> is it going to happen? >> it's up to us in this country. when you look at the things that you and i are talking about right now, if you flip to some of these other channels, are they talking about these things?

>> i -- even it's appalling to me that the war on poverty that president johnson talked about in the mid 60s, we have lost the war on poverty -- we are so much worse off, so many people are so much worse off. >> the thing that you created a new dependency class and that dependency class has become so wedded to a certain political agenda that they believe the only way they can find susten ance is that. it's the second- and third-order effects. in the near term tsound great, but in the out-years, it's tcialt. >> thank you. government snooping is outraging many americans, but others say it is the leak that does the real damage. michael mccasey saying the leaks are empowering the terrorists. nice to see you. >> good to be with you. >> empowering the tirrorrists? what do you mean by that? >> every time we have a leak, it tells them how it is that we trace where they are, who they

are talking to and what they are doing -- that enables them to evade... the mechanisms that have been put in place and to adopt an alternative. one example is the -- at this time disclosure that we were tracing financial transactions to the swiss system in 2006. needless to say, they immediately shut it down and relied increasingly on hand-to-hand transfers of cash. that's just one example. >> if you look at a good thing -- if everybody knew about this, including the terrorists, it is like putting spikes under their tire, they will stop doing the internet and the phone and go to smoke signals and pony express and tell slow them down tremendously -- >> not really, not really, gret a. they have access to 21st century techniques, 21st century techniques can avoid other 21st century techniques. they don't have to go back to the pony express. they can have the jet plane fly a different route.

>> you wrote an op-ed piece. you talked about the obama administration, you said the promiscowcuous treatment of national secrets. >> they have leaked sensitive information when it was politically advantageous to the president. i think they become in a very poor position to complain and prosecute leaks. the president teat that osama bin laden was killed, which was a wonderful triumph of american intelligence, said that we had uncovered a trove of intelligence at the hideout and everybody knew -- everybody who knew what his plans were changed plans and went to ground. a lot of that information became useless as a result of the president wanting to boast in front of the cameras. the same way, we had a discussion of the united states being involved in implanting the virus in the iranian nuclear program. that should have never been disclosed.

but we saw reports on conversations in the situation room itself in the white house, coming out of the. the only way that could have come out was through the white house. >> let me ask you about the feist accord. vilooked at the numbers. in 2013, according to a letter sent to harry reid, the government made 1,789 applications for authority to conduct electronic surveillance. they withdrew 1, and 1,788 were granted. that means every single one was granted. it looks like a rubber stamp to me. >> it's not. that means two things. the national security division always has been -- when was i was there and i am sure still is -- have are, very cautious about had they apply for because the one thing they have going for them is their credibility. secondly, the statistics don't tell what you changes were made in the applications before they were granted, whether the court pushed back, as it sometimes does and asks for changes in the

application. that often happens. >> let me ask you this nterms of the cautious nature. you know, we see the best of the best, seeking the warrant to grab james rosen's informs and that was anything but cautious -- >> that's not -- >> but that's the best -- >> that's not the national -- that was not the national security division, that was the u.s. attorney's office in the district of columbia that submitted an affidavit that would have been bounced by anybody with a law degree and should have been. >> and it was not. that's the thing that scares me. the one thing about the accord, there is no challenge to the government. every time the national security goes in and submits the warrants, they don't like them, like you say, they are sent back to please the judge. there is no sort of checks and balance. why not have an ombudsman to speak for the people and say, maybe there should be some pull-back on the application. >> greta, you are mixing up two things. the rosen affidavit was not submitted to turt -- >> no, no, no. i know that. i know that.

>> it was -- [overlapping dialogue] >> i understand that, sir. but these are experienced members of the bench, too. these -- that was not a new magistrate. >> royce lambert didn't sign off on the affidavit. he never would have signed off on it, even in the middle of the night. that was signed off by a magistrate, an apointed official, not confirmed by the senate. >> one who is actually respected here. >> he may have been respected before this. but if you read that affidavit, there is no way that warrant should have been granted. >> but that's my point, there is no checks and balances and the judges on the court come off the district court. this is an extra assignment. they are appointed by the supreme court justice from the district court. we have no way to know what they are doing. >> of course we don't. it's -- they're involved in intelligence gathering, which is a sensitive process. what you are saying, there is no room for secrecy in the government. we department have checks and

balances in the manhattan project either. >> i wouldn't mind secrets. i am saying we ought to have some ombudsman -- who we don't have to know -- but someone who is not just saying yes, sir. >> you don't know that and you don't know what the government is asking. >> when they get 100% of their applications, i have to admit, i am suspicious. >> you may be suspicious. but they may be only going in on the safe cases. i got into a dispute over ray kelley. he said the percentage was too high because they weren't going far enough. >> it's a fun debate. nice to see you. >> good to be with you. >> the 29 contractor who seas he's the source of the leak, edward snowden, fleeing to hong kong. douglas mcnabb is here. >> good evening. >> all right. this man has admitted to... to leaking, a violation of the law. high has fled to hong kong. if the united states wants to get him back from long kong and

prosecute him, what does the united states have to do? >> first of all, they have to prosecute him. have you to have an arrest warrant. the u.s. government would seek an indictment from a federal grand jury. they would get an arrest warrant. i suspect they would ask the court to seal -- not make a mattered of public record, the indictment because they wouldn't want him to know they have indicted him. the u.s. government will do two things. number 1 is that they would send over by diplomatic channels or law enforcement, a provisional arrest warrant, which is a temporary arrest warrant, provided for in the extradition treaty between hong kong and the united states. they would be seeking to have mr. snowden arrested and detained up to 60 days. that would give the u.s. government time to file a full-blown petition for extradition. once he's in extradition proceedings, he has two choice it's he can waive extradition and return to the u.s. and stand trial or challenge. he can fight that extradition.

that's the first thing that the government could do. the second thing is that the government could go to interpol and request interpol d.c., to request interpol out of france to issue a red notice, sent to 190 countries. >> the minute he tries -- >> including 190 countries -- >> he will get nabbed. >> he gets nabbed. >> he has -- [overlapping dialogue] >> we have understood that he has left the hotel. nobody know where is he is in hong kong or whether he has headed for somewhere else. is there any way that he could be detained at all in hong kong if he is still there -- absent an indictment here in the united states? >> well, he could -- what potentially could happen is that hong kong could revoke his visa i suspect he's there on a tourist or a business visa. they could find he's in the country illegally and deport

him, either formally deport him or get informally deported, taking him to the airport and the u.s. marshal service is waiting -- if there is an indictment. failing an indictment, they could deport him, after revoking his visa, if they wanted to do that. >> i suspect that the countries are cooperative with the treaties between them and the extradition if he flees to another country that would make it easier to bring him back fhe goes to a country where we have a treaty. >> well, of course we have this treaty -- we don't have a treaty with china. we do with hong kong. there are provisions this natreat tow provide for his return if the u.s. government is able to show that he probably committed a crime. and of course, apparently, he has admitted to committing the crime, if he has committed it. but there is also other requirements of dual criminality and other issues that the u.s. government would have to be able to establish in the extradition proceeding. >> thank you very much for

joining us, sir. >> my pleasure. thanks so much. >> the big question tonight -- where is edward snowden, he says he wants asylum so is he on a plane going somewhere isn't icelandic parrel is offering to help. good evening. >> good evening. >> now, you want to -- help this man, mr. snowden, is that correct? >> yeah, i want to look into the legal implications if he would make it to iceland, if it would be possible to offer him similar treatment who iceland made into a citizen, after he had been put into prison by the request of the united states government for playing chess in the wrong country. >> why would you want to help him? why would you want to give him asylum in iceland? >> well, i think that the information that he has provide to the public domain is very important for every individual

that uses the internet or uses phones. not only in the united states but elsewhere in the world. i think it is important that we learn from this information that there isa i very profound need for policy changes. it has been suggested -- [overlapping dialogue] >> i think it is very important. >> is that an internal u.s. discussion or is that a discussion iceland should be involved in with the united states? [chuckles] >> it is actually a discussion that we need to have globally because information doesn't have any borders, nor does surveillance anymore. you might not be familiar with my own case with the department 6 justice where the fbi went into my home and went through all of my personal affects and they figured out whom i had been with and when, even if i am a representative for another nation and a number of the nato

parliamentary assembly at the time. but the fbi didn't go through my ordinary front door, they went through my back door. now, if i'my, the general public, not only in the united states, but elsewhere -- and there has been heavy criticism on this dragnet of surveillance, on individuals in europe -- now people may be understanding what this means. >> one quick question, we got hit with terrorism on 9/11, which of course, your country has been fortunate you didn't get hit on 9/11. but i am curious, when the fbi went into your home, that was in iceland or the united states? where does did the fbi do that? >> that was in iceland, but through the back door, through the internet. >> all right. thank you very much for joining us. i hope you will continue to join us as we follow this story. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> okay. wait until you hear who had top security clearance. that's stunning. that's next.

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andrew. >> hey, greta. this flight set to take off out of l.a.x. around 1:30 this afternoon. 45 minute late and while in the air it appears a threat phoned in to authorities in los angeles. specifically targeting this plane. norad had to scramble two f-16 fighters to follow this plane while in the air to watch it monitor it, make sure everything went okay. it land at sky harbor airport. everybody off, got on buses, took to another terminal. they had to remove all bags from the plane, bring bomb sniffing dogs and the bomb squad to go through the bags, make sure this wasn't a legitimate threat. we don't know much about the threat. all the fbi is telling us, it was phoned in to authorities in los angeles. they in turn alerted police here in phoenix. as for the 142 passengers who are on board that plane, they

were supposed to have anonstop flight to austin, texas. they have not left phoenix yet. a significant delay we're told by southwest airlines, they all have to come back to the airport, check back in. 143 passengers, and as far as we know, that plane has not been cleared. the bomb squad and phoenix police are still going over, trying to see if that threat is indeed legitimate. back to you. >> andrew, thank you. of course, we'll bring you more on breaking news as we get it. right now, this is a low-leveling government employee getting top security clearance access. byron york joins us. >> good to be here. >> talking about the programs, the fisa court, run by the executive, approved by the judicial, done in consultation with congress, but apparently executed by private contractors. >> that's right.

this is not a rogue operation, in that it was approved in all branches of government. the amazing thing we've learned, how many people have security clearances, not just in government, but in contracting companies as well. a report put out by the director of national intelligence in 2010, 4.2 million security clearances. 4.2 -- >> government or contractors? >> both. 1.4 million were top secret highest levels. of those, 524,000 were contractors. 524,000 contractors had top secret, highest level security clearance. >> you know, we didn't -- we didn't elect the contractors, didn't vote for the contractors, they aren't employed by -- we aren't directly employed to have government supervision. they are like satellite operation. who supervises them? >> a lot of people who used to

work in government. go back and forth between the government and private contractors. what happened after september 11th, a huge explosion in intelligence gathering. the creation of the department of homeland security and the director of national intelligence. consolidated a lot of different intelligence operations and tried to break down the wall between intelligence and law enforcement so problematic in not connecting the dots for 9/11. but in the process, thousands, hundred dollars -- hundreds of thousands got more security clearance. and there was a guy in hawaii that had access to astonishing things. he had -- he leak a copy of this fisa court decision in the phone records case, and, you know, people here in washington say

that should have -- about 30 or 40 people should have had access to that decision. just that many. >> and the contractors that worked in the government, wouldn't come man the salaries, they get a phenomenal amount of money as contractors. paying a premium for them and we don't even know who they are. there are just thousands of these people. >> look, we've had notorious spy cases from people who lived in the government. pollard worked in the navy, w k walker for the fbi. a lot of notorious spy cases of people who worked for the government. not suggesting it is one or the another. but there is clearly enormous risk when you have hundreds of thousands of top secret clearances. >> snowden, when he was in switzerland, he some objection to something the cia was doing. aren't there periodic polygraphs of these contractors or anything to see if they have a disagreement with the government? >> there should be, and experts

are really trying to figure out why he had so much access. they monitor key strokes, i mean, he worked on a computer in his office, they should have monitored every single thing he was doing with that computer. how did they not know this? >> we'll find out. thank you. >> thank you. news on the irs investigation. why aren't we being shown the reports from the congressional interviews with the cincinnati emplo the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, you never miss the fun. beard growing conte and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet?

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are you steaming mad or satisfied? satisfied the irs has now come clean about the targeting of conservative groups? the top democrat of the house oversight committee is satisfied. said the targeting investigation is a done deal. congressman elijah cummings. >> based upon everything i've seen, the case is solved and if it were me, i would wrap this case up and move on to be frank

with you. in other words, i think we -- the irs, by the way, we made some recommendations and those recommendations are being adopted by the irs, we've got a new commissioner, acting commissioner, danny werfel doing a great job. in great shape. >> other oversight committee members agree. and do you agree that the investigation is over? that we have all of the information in the irs investigation? >> absolutely not. that is almost laughable. we've actually just gbegun the investigation and we -- as you know, we had some of the top-level washington people in who pointed the finger down and we had to go to the people who they try to tell you just sit around the water cooler and started all of this in cincinnati, cincinnati's irs office. we have deposed some of the cincinnati folks pointed the finger up.

in fact, identifying individuals who really set up this whole process that was so objectionable. >> congressman cumming said a veteran irs manager in cincinnati who described himself as a conservative republican said and he a colleague decided to give conservative groups extra scrutiny? true or false? >> he asked washington what to do with an application. a tea party or conservative group. and you had washington directing, asking for more only cakeses, taking information from those applicants, going after applicants, we are deposing people who were involved again in cincinnati. i have some of the testimony i brought tonight. they point the finger back at

specific people in washington. that's where we're going next, to fin od out who demanded what? >> a copy from congressman cummings to congressman issa, and he says he asked that the committee release publicly the transcripts and make limited redactions to protect individual privacy. if we are going to have transparency and republicans giving obama heck for not having transparency. >> we are releasing some. >> the problem if you just release some, are you subject to the criticism that you are just conveniently releasing stuff that advances you. >> we're in an investigation. conducted by the irs -- i'm sorry, by the inspector general was an audit. this is an investigation. >> but so are your hearings when

you invite the tea party people. that's an investigation. so some stuff you do quite publicly. >> and this should be released. part of it has been released. >> not all. >> as you go forward, and the other thing too, we don't want to totally clip off folks who are going to be -- who are going to be deposed, and who are going to be subpoenaed or brought before the committee in advance. >> but if they are going to lie, they are going to lie. the american people really want to know what's going on. and we release little bits and pieces here. put people some up for witnesses, and some you doan. and i think, and i'll be so bold to speak for the american people, we want all of the information. sooner rather than later. >> we want facts in an orderly fashion and protect certain people who are coming clean and also cooperating with the committee. >> limited redaction to protect

privacy. >> exactly what we are doing. exactly what we are doing at this point. and, again, tipping off people who will be held accountable, who we want to bring in and depose them. so that's basically what you are getting. we have most of the transcripts here that we can provide publicly at this point. >> can i have those? >> glad to give it to you. pages of them. >> i will take what i can have. nice to see you. >> we're not going to stop. we'll continue. >> thank you. coming up. brace yourself. what rate shock is and if you are a target. coming up. may be acceptable on a football field, but not in the courtroom what did an nfl star courtroom what did an nfl star

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imagine paying 88% more for your health insurance premium. according to the ohio department of insurance, that is about to happen in ohio. the new health care law will spike the cost of insurance for people who buy it on their own. what's up? why the huge hike? bill johnson joins us. good evening, sir. >> good evening, greta. how are you? >> very well. why in the world -- how could your insurance go up 88% in ohio? >> well, there are several reasons that is drooufing this, greta. first of all, a big change under obama care in the risk pool composition. you have got young people that are going to be paying a lot more for their health care insurance to cover the less cost that seniors are going to be paying. for example, the average senior that is 60 years old, consumes about six times more health care than the average 20-year-old, but the young people will pay higher premiums, also got the

elimination of the good health discounts. your honor the m under the mandates of obama care, health care companies have to cover a lot of different things that a lot of young people might not have included in their health care plan. and then you've got obama care also mandating lower discount -- or lower -- lower discounts and lower copays. and so you have got a lot of premium increase associated with -- with obama care. >> and is -- unbelievably. 88%, i can't even think. even 10% is painful, if premiums went up 10%. 88%. this report done by the ohio department of insurance, is that bipartisan? >> that's a bipartisan report by

the ohio insurance department, and i can tell you, greta, this comes on the -- right off the trail of a report that was released by the commerce committee that i serve on in washington, that says health care premiums will go up, all across the country, in some places by as much as 400%. take college student. >> how can -- with so many american people, it was not going to cost anymore? >> you are right. the president said it multiple times on national television, campaign ads and said it right here at ohio state, that health care costs were going to go down by about $2,500 per family. and yet we have seen already that since 2008, the average national health care premium have gone up $3,000 a year. look at what is happening to college students with about

40-plus percent of college students struggling to get a job and now they are going to be asked to pay upward of $40 to 8% more for health insurance. >> it's painful to watch. we'll see how it shakes out. thank you, sir. >> thank you, greta. and the fda wanted the morning after pill to be available over the counter for women any age. doj has been fighting that, but doj has given up. girls of any age will be able to buy emergency contraception without a prescription. without a prescription. -yeah! go, angie! -wo-hoo! [ sound fades ] at a moment like this, i'm glad i use tampax pearl. [ female announcer ] tampax pearl protects better. only tampax has a leakguard braid to help stop leaks before they happen. tampax pearl protects better.

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former secretary of state hillary clinton just might be the famous texter in america thanks to an internet mean called texting hillary. a birdie said texting is so yesterday. time to tweet. she got the message. so today clinton's inaugural tweet. thanks for inspiration. i'll take it from here. now they created a popular site text from hillary when clinton was still in office and clearly she has a sense of humor using the famous photo as her new twitter profile picture, what does bill clinton think? he tweeted does twitter from v.a family share plan? looking forward to tweets from hillary. tim tebow getting a fresh start this time might get the start. nfl on fo. reporting tim tebow

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million party? >> greta: thank you for being with us tonight. join us on gretawire.com and talk about all of the issues. nsa i'm eric bolling with kimberly guilfoyle, greg gutfeld, dana perino. this is "the five." a rogue american intel analyst at the center of what may be the most expansive intel leak in the united states is on the lam in hong kong. questions abound. we are going to try to breakdown who ed snowden is, what he gave away, what should happen to him. fascinating stuff. who is ed snowden. >> my name is ed snowden, i am 29 years old. i book for