africa asking if it matters if other presidents also took expensive trips. go to gretawire.com. see you tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on the record. fox news alert. i am eric bolling with andrea tantaros, dana perino, bob beckel and greg gutfeld. this is "the five." we are about to show you the first time, for the first time a world exclusive interview with the father of ed snowden who blew the whistle on the nsa snooping scandal. he reached out to someone he trusted, that happens to be me. after days of talking and e-mailing with mr. snowden, he agreed to sit down and talks. what follows is a man deeply concerned with the safety of his son and a man deeply concerned with the direction america is

heading. >> i think people want to know, have you spoken to ed? >> no, the last time i saw ed was april 4th, in the shadow of the national security agency. we had gone out to dinner. he seemed to be carrying a heavy burden, i was concerned about him. i shared that after i came home, but we hugged as we always do. he said i love you, dad. i said i love you, ed. i expected to see him again. >> tell us a little about ed. people would like to hear about ed, would like to know what's he like. >> he is a sensitive, caring young man. this is the ed that i know. you know, the same eyes, it is the same ed. he just is a deep thinker. he was raised to be principled. he knows the difference between what is just and unjust and right and wrong. he cares for all people.

>> yesterday was father's day, probably one of the few father's days you haven't spoken to ed. how was that? >> difficult, but the last seven days have been extremely difficult, going from not knowing where my son was, i thought he was missing, then the news broke on sunday, which just shocked everyone in the family that he was the nsa leak. >> what should he do? >> i would like to see ed come back and face this. >> if he did come back, what would you say to him? >> i would tell him to be truthful, to be honest. >> in your opinion, do you think he approached the line? >> you know, i'm not an attorney, i can't speak to that. what i know as someone who served my nation over 30 years honorably, i took an oath to support and defend the constitution of the united states. that's not something that i

could have done, but i am not in ed's shoes. i don't know what he has seen, what he has been exposed to, but i know he is a principled young man. i know what he walked away from. i know how he feels about his family and what he knows that this would have done to his family, with all of the media frenzy, forget that. simply not knowing how he's doing. he knows how that would hurt his family. so i can't imagine what drove him to do this in terms of has he broken a law, i can't answer that. that's why we have trials and the justice system, that's why we have a u.s. constitution, that's our right. >> why do you think he did it the way he did it? >> i think he did it because again, he saw something that as a father i had to believe constituted a moral hazard. he had an obligation to take classified information, but my son is also very intelligent,

very well read, very -- obviously very well aware of what he believes to be the tenets of the constitution and bill of rights, specifically the fourth amendment. >> there are a lot of people that said that the nsa was violating the fourth amendment. thoughts? >> i don't want the government listening to my phone calls, i don't want the government archiving the places that my other children visit on the internet or that i visit or my wife visit, i don't want them reading my e-mail. i don't want them reading my texts. in my opinion, they have no right, not even under the guise of we need to keep you safe. some people are suggesting that what's occurring is very similar to every morning the government afternoon, they pull the envelopes out, they open them, they look at your mail, they copy it. they archive it in case they want to look at it sometime in the future, in case you do something wrong sometime in the

future. they reseal the envelopes, put them back in the mailbox, and do it every day, over and over again. >> ed said he may release more information. what should he do? >> don't. that concerns me. >> do you think that the information that he has, do you think that puts him in peril? >> absolutely. i think it puts him in peril from a foreign government, from opportunists, and in my opinion clearly from our government as well. all you have to do is watch the political discourse at this point and i would say he is certainly in peril. >> why don't you take a look in the camera, speak directly to ed. what do you want to tell him, what should he do, what does dad say to ed? >> we're certainly saddened by your decision, but it has not diminished our love for you. if i saw you tomorrow, the first thing i would do is hug you and

tell you i love you. my primary concern at this point in time is your immediate safety and your long term health. i hope, i pray, and i ask that you will not release any secrets that could constitute treason, consider what you're doing, consider your friends that are good counsel, i sense you're under much stress from what i read recently, that you not succumb to that stress and make a bad decision. ed, i love you. i love you and i wish you the best. i want you to come home. >> bob, let's go around the table. >> congratulations on that interview, it was an excellent interview. i'm really taken with this guy, guy 30 years in the military,

he's obviously trying to get a clear line in his own mind about what's going on here. he doesn't like the idea of what the government is doing, on the other hand, he gave a pledge to the united states to protect and defend it, the constitution. i've got to believe he is ripped apart by this. and he does want his kid to come home, obviously, wants him to be safe, but i can't really tell you in his own gut he's just wrenched apart by this, about the right and wrong of it. that's my sense of it. >> i can tell you after spending that -- that culminated last night after four days of back and forth, hours and hours of conversation. he is wrenched apart by it. he's concerned. he wants to talk to his son, ed. he wants ed to come back, wants him to turn himself in, come back, face the justice system, but he's concerned about saying something wrong, he may get ed hurt or himself or other family members hurt. dana, you feel for this guy, though.

>> well, my particular feelings on snowden, what a great dad, giving good advice and unconditional love. that's what you get from a great dad, unconditional love, doesn't matter all the things he has done up until now, and that your interview took place before the additional leaks from snowden about china and russia, which is directly aiding and abetting an enemy. i think his dad has right to be worried about snowden succumbing to more pressure, but he is digging a deeper hole. i hope he was able to see the interview. i am assuming snowden has a lot of internet access, he is responding, doing q and as online, hopefully he will see his dad give him really good advice. >> greg, your thoughts? >> i am right there with him on this because he is torn and he is confused about what exactly his son is doing, whether the son is in some way principled about things. and it doesn't -- the idea is has he committed treason, and he

is like don't. phone records, things the father is probably thinking about, phone records is not treason, that was already reported in usa today in 2006. he is clear with that. it is stuff you mentioned, it is prism, foreign intel. a hero would find out what the other guys are doing rather than us, that kind of bugs me about that. and anything after, did you ever that's hacking, eavesdropping, that's about us versus foreigners, that's not covered by the fourth amendment. i made this joke last night, it is called the fourth amendment not the fourth yemendment. he is putting other people, i worry that he is in peril, but he is putting us in peril when he is dealing with that. i think that's the question his dad and america is dealing with. >> and lon said, the father, he

literally said i hope he comes back. at one point, i don't think it was on tape, he said i would be fine with him coming back in shackles, i just want him to come back and face the system because he believes, lon believes, the system will exx exonerate him. >> i don't know how he comes back. excellent interview, on father's day of all days to talk to this father. again, it doesn't add up. i know parents want to believe the best in their children. he says he is committed to protecting our data, but is he? i find it hard to believe because of things he has disclosed. on the chat today, he said the reason he came out, he saw clapper lie to the american people in front of congress. i get that. i applaud the whistleblowers on the cover of usa today saying we told you so, we came out, but did it the right way. we went to congress, then went to the media, and we may have been intimidated by the government and demoted, but they

did it the right way. eric, i have to say the fact he went to hong kong, the fact that he dumped documents after president obama met with the leader of china, the fact that he told them what we were doing, hacking the chinese, i have a very hard time believing that he is committed to the security and best interests of all of us here. >> can i add something to this quick, sorry, bob. he has a dad that is out there defending him. we don't have a dad. where is our president? he is an absentee father. there's nobody coming back to say here are the programs, here are why they're important. he is in northern ireland. >> just a couple things that strike me. first of all, the chinese are the least surprised in the world we're hacking into their stuff. i mean, nor are the russians. prism is a dimension of this program that's been around a long time, that extends it into a broader territory of a number of americans. i don't know whether or not, prism in and of itself is not

national security risk to anybody. the question is what i heard from this guy saying, i am worried he can get back alive, i am worried somebody, even our own government. >> i don't think that. >> he will be fine, seriously. when half the country believes he is a hero, i think his father even said the guy has lawyers lined up, that's what he said. he has a lot of support. >> no doubt, he and the family have a lot of support. we have more of that interview coming up. more of the exclusive interview with edward snowden's father. does he want his son to come home, even if it means he is going to prison? and what does president bush think about the nsa program. hear from 43. that and more coming right back. [ male announcer ] susan writes children's books.

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this is a fox news alert. here is more of my interview with lon snowden, father of edward snowden. i asked him a simple question. does he want edward to come home, even if it means he would spend years in prison? >> if ed coming back meant jail time, still want him to come back? >> if that's -- i have faith in our justice system applied correctly, absolutely. i would rather my son be a prisoner in the u.s. than a free man in a country that did not have again the freedoms that are protected that we have. you know, the u.s. constitution and the bill of rights, that's what define, that's what makes

america america. and every service man or woman who has ever served this nation, given their life for this nation, that's the oath, that's the first line of their job description, to support and defend the constitution of the united states. and that's where i would prefer my son be, yes, absolutely. >> any thoughts on why he picked hong kong and or china to go to? >> you know, i was asked that question by the government, and i can't answer that, but i just believe it's a place he was comfortable with and i don't believe he chose it by accident. >> here's a man who wants the system to work. he's fine with whatever the outcome may be, he wants to go through the proper channels. >> yeah, but his son didn't go through the proper channels to do this. look, i feel for him as a

father, but his son has some major explaining to do and he is in big trouble. if you look at the way the administration treats reporters, fox news's james rosen, they said they were never going to prosecute james rosen, if you read the affidavit, it is clear, potential criminal liability. that's for what they perceived was, you know, espionage. this is very, very different, on a larger scale. every day it gets worse, and snowden keeps saying there's more, there's more, there's more. and we seem to be able to say in the white house we don't know where he is. that was incredible to me when they said they don't know where he is. >> usa today story that listens to whistleblowers, they have been rebuffed by congress, administration, downgraded, and gets to the point where you have a moral feeling about something. you can't get it through the channels. it is clear it wouldn't work, nobody would listen to these people. he took it on himself to do it this way. maybe it is wrong, but others

that tried to do it were rebuffed. >> this was a big story over the weekend. gerald nadler thursday, democrat from new york says as far as the nsa, analysts can ask and listen in on phone conversations, dianne feinstein, senator said to the same effect, something similar. since then, walked it back a bit. if this is true -- >> i don't think it is true. the nsa had to put out a statement, they have been slow to get off the mark, this is an agency that operates in secret. administration is not used to dealing with that, breaking the bond and oath they took. friday, members of congress held briefings, there were open briefings, nsa was there. anybody from congress could come. they open the books. we will tell you everything, come in. 50% didn't bother going and went home. i don't think they have a lot of leg to stand on, especially the one you quoted, nadler. >> this one, want to do sound.

george bush weighed in on this. >> and now techniques used to prevent attacks have been disclosed. i don't know if you remember, after 9/11, congress had hearings, right? and you know what the hearings were about? we didn't connect the dots, we didn't have the tools to connect the dots. one of the killers makes a phone call from san diego to somewhere, how come you didn't know? we didn't have the tools. we've got the tools. now the people in congress are saying why are you connecting the dots? it is a tough assignment for the president, it is. >> you get the gist of what he is talking about. i want to tie it into what's the name of the guy. >> snowden. >> today on the guardian thing, wow, he said police officers kill more americans than terrorism and then he said nsa is running a network of

operations against them that effect millions of people, you could potentially reveal terrorists that kill fewer americans than our own police. he mentions police twice, how the police kill more people in america than terrorists, and that is a different story than the fourth amendment. he basically is saying that america kills more americans than terrorists, so in a sense he is more interested in undermining foreign intel than ours. if he was a hero, go after china's intel, don't go after ours. a hero doesn't throw his own country under the bus, he throws another country. i think he is undermining, what bush is getting at, undermining foreign intel and i have no sympathy for that, i guess. >> you want to do this one? >> interesting at the end, he talks about the difficult position the president was in. i thought it was quite a complimentary thing for him to do. he d what he was

going through. >> this is dick cheney, who wasn't so complimentary. >> i think he is a traitor. i think he has committed crimes by violating agreements, given the position he had. he was a contractor employee, but he obviously had been granted top secret clearance. i think it is one of the worst occasions in my memory of somebody with access to classified information doi doing enormous damage to the national security of the united states. >> bob? >> what we didn't put in that cut is when he said the president of the united states shouldn't be trusted with things like this. this coming from the guy who is the greatest strategist for the war on iraq? dick cheney ought to shut up. george bush understands what's going on. dick cheney is using it for

political gain. >> george bush was kind enough to sympathies what president obama is going through. president obama hasn't credited george bush with the program. instead, he has done the opposite, boasting it is so good now, the nsa program, because they scrubbed it. dick cheney responded to that. he said really, you changed it, scrubbed it, at least with bush we had the debate, at least there was transparency, we knew when it worked. if it worked so well under president obama, tell us the dozens and dozens of attacks. they don't tell us. >> you know what, this is what is great about this scandal. it brings the right and the left together and in conflict over this, which in a way weakens our war against radical islam. obama doesn't have to act about it because we are destroying it. >> we buried the lead, that cheney and obama agree on something. he is a traitor and he was in the wrong and should be prosecuted. >> good point. well done. way to wrap it up.

coming up, nsa leaks, irs targeting, benghazi, doj reporters probe, a few things brewing in washington. what's obama's response? road trip to europe, obviously, but the american people are wising up and his poll numbers are taking a dive. the obama free fall next on "the five." ♪

♪ welcome back. president obama hits northern ireland and europe for the g-8 summit, far from the scandals plaguing his administration back home. the commander in chief's poll numbers are taking a deep dive.

a new orc poll shows his approval rating went from 53% down to 45%. it is the lowest approval rating in more than a year and a half. so could all of the controversies and lack of leadership be taking a toll on him? greg, i have to say, all of the scandals didn't help, but the way he handled them after didn't help at all, the lying, the hiding things. no one gets fired. >> you know what, i am beginning to think president obama has resigned and just hasn't told us yet. like the guy that reads the writing on the wall at work, starts taking vacation days, using his sick days, starts taking stuff down from the wall of the office, putting it in his bag. everybody has done this. that's why you're having all the grownups, seeing bush and cheney coming out of the wood work, the adults are coming to work because the kids are on spring break. he could explain the different

programs that everybody else has to. then again, he is like the harry houdini of presidents. every straightjacket he gets in, benghazi, irs, he goes like this, gets out of it. the nsa thing is like a big giant water spray -- >> super soaker. >> all on the front pages. i don't know, he is in ireland, says hope is contagious. no, doubt is. doubt is contagious. >> do you see him doing anything to fix this, dana? would firing people help? you've given advice to give a speech, address the nation. >> i lost track of which speech for which scandal. popularity rating is catching up to reality, it happens in the second term, bush was no stranger to that. you have to go to things like the g-8, he has to go and continue on. i think he should take some advice from friendly audience, friendly opposition, which is to say you hear about marriages that start falling apart because

the guy stops paying attention, no date night, no romance. he has three years left in the second term. he has to work us a bit. we have to go out. eric -- >> dana thinks the president should get a barry white cd, some asti spumanti -- >> that would work? >> not with me, no, no, no. something a little nicer. look at the trust question on this. 74% of americans when he came to office say they trust him. now that number dipped double digits. with young people, he has gone down 17 points, with independents 7 points. >> it is crashing and burning all over the place. benghazi, irs, doj, nsa, and how about when he gets on the airplane, obama care, fast and furious, suing arizona, we can go on and on. gets on the airplane, somewhere between 60 to $100 million to go

on this african trip, while keeping the white house doors closed for $17,000 a week because it is just too darn expensive to keep them open. >> bob, your favorite person in the world, want to play a clip. he says credibility. bob's favorite person in the world. hit it. >> in terms of credibility? i don't think he has credibility. we have an important point where the president of the united states ought to be able to stand up and say this is a righteous program, good program, saving american lives and i support it, and the problem is the guy has failed to be forthright and honest and credible on things like benghazi and the irs, so he's got no credibility. >> that coming from the man with the least credibility of any public figure in america is amazing to me. back to the polls. stop with the cartoons. most important thing for obama and thing i would worry about most is the trust factor, one thing i said two or three weeks ago. if obama lost the people to the

fact that they liked him, that was dangerous. not surprised by job numbers, in the face of this, bound to go down. trustworthiness is something sacred to the american people and that's what i would worry about. >> how hard is it to get it back. >> very tough. >> what should he do? >> at this stage of the game i think he has to come out. now the press conference will be going on four and a half days. but i think he needs to stand up and answer every question. >> biggest problem with loss of trust, we may sacrifice foreign intel because we don't trust him, we throw the spy out with the spy water. >> good indication, when mid term elections come up, who wants obama to show up? who wants him to show up? >> in the key districts they will. >> if you look at these numbers because of the nsa scandal, they eroded with independents and the left. this goes to the crux of his base. >> that's why he may not come out and talk about it, because if he comes out and defends any of the spying, he loses more of

the left. >> heard from dana, bubble bath, candlelight, barry white. directly ahead, immigration reform is heating up, after last week's senate hurdle. some members of the gang of eight are optimistic they'll get it done. you'll hear from them when we come back.

♪ how do these people not know who zac brown band is. education here. first we are talking about immigration reform. it is a long way from being passed into law. there are signs it is stronger now than last week. senator marco rubio, one of the gang of eight, says the bill is almost perfect, needs some work

in areas like border security. >> i think 95, 96% of the bill is in perfect shape and ready to go, but there are elements that need to be improved. this is how the legislative process is supposed to work. you offer an idea, you get public input and input of other colleagues, from these criticisms or observations come new ideas how to make it better and you can't ignore that, those things need to be addressed and we have the opportunity to do that, in particular on boarder security element. >> great interview with lon snowden, i am going to go quick. you talk to marco rubio on your radio show quite regularly. one thing you can say, he is perseverent trying to get things done. what do you think about the bill getting done? >> i think they'll get something out of the senate. the house is probably the biggest obstacle. marco rubio will not walk away from this bill. if you remember, when senator obama was in the senate, he didn't want his hands on

anything. this is the difference between marco rubio. i asked him something, dana, that conservatives have been saying. we need an undamaged marco rubio to run for the white house. all these bigger than immigration reform, it will get done without you senator, can you walk away now. what do you say to the republican party that says we need you. he basically said andrea, no, this is the right thing to do. i don't think it is 95% correct. there's a lot more needs to be done. especially the law enforcement measures. i have to say rubio is somebody that sticks to his guns. >> eric, if they get the border security issue taken care of and benefits issue, if you broke the law, you won't have benefits from taxpayer dollars in the long run, will conservatives come on board? >> i do, but marco rubio said last week speaking to spanish speaking audience, said we will deal with border security after we pass the legislation, which

is a problem. 95% of the bill is okay is like saying 95% of the boat is not leaking or 95% of the border is secure. you need 100% border security before you do any of the other things for the conservatives to jump on board with it, and my suggestion, i mean this with 100% of my heart, we should give away, give the federal land away along the border, the u.s. mexican border, even the canadian border. let private companies, farmers, secure the border. they'll get it secured. then you can play any games you want. >> only 45 seconds left. quick thought from greg and i will do a preview of what bob may talk about tomorrow on the show. >> do you do a bill because it is right or to win elections? i am suspicious of taking advice from people who have been beating you every four years. other than that, i would say i would take the advice of my wife, do not have relatives over until you clean up your own house. and our house is a mess.

>> but they're already living in your house. >> i know. i'm saying stop, ground government, our house is a mess. don't invite people over until we fix our problems. >> what do you do about house guests that are already there? don't know yet. okay. >> there's going to be a bill out of the senate, there will be a bill out of the house to go to conference. the republicans have to have an immigration bill, far more important than the scandals you're talking about. without that, they cease to become a national party. >> i disagree. we get a chance to talk about it tomorrow. greg had a great point to make. we want to hear your monologue next. the boston police department was in the midst of planning a terror training drill, but in the hypothetical scenario it was a muslim group. has it gone too far?

for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. ♪ so before the marathon

bombing, the boston police department had planned a terror training exercise, paid for by the department of homeland security. the terrorists, however, were fictitious creeps called free american citizens. no mistaking that for al qaeda or the weather underground. some may call it risk aversion, others might say cowardess. the police know they're not on the prowl for middle aged americans dressed as ben franklin. they know the hell they'd get if they used a muslim terror group. something you avoid if you don't want to get fired. does it matter if they play pretend with false enemies, keep their eyes on the real once? we missed the boston bombings and fort hood. we didn't miss the attackers, they were there in plain sight, we missed that bloodbath, because of fear of targeting the bad guys, calling them by name,

now the modern ghouls evade us. the citizen becomes vulnerable to something far worse, islamists with evil in their hearts and bombs in their hands. at least they aren't angry over obama care. and does it matter what name you call a fictitious group as long as they're planning against it? >> it absolutely does. it is not shocking, boston is a liberal city. i am sure they wouldn't have gotten $200,000 if they wouldn't have done something like this. it is the same department of homeland security, greg, that said in 2011 concentrating on young muslim men is not using good logic. if i am the people of boston, i am pretty ticked off. dhs said don't focus on the tsarnaev brothers. they're the same dhs that lost track of almost 2,000 illegal criminals, yet they put the same armed guards at tea party rallies.

it is not shocking but should be to people of boston. >> i thought in boston, militia men were supposed to be heroic. >> that's the point. if you think about it, if there's going to be one group to attack on that day, you have two, one muslim extremist, the other would be militia groups. >> tea party. >> come on. >> not tea party, remember the ones that blew up the murrah building? >> 17 years ago. >> i see, 17 years ago. fine. >> there was additional bad news for free americas citizens, they didn't get the 501(c)4. >> you ought to live in the west, see what they're like. >> dana, what do you think? >> here is my philosophy. you have to practice like you play. practice like you play means you have to name it.

i agree with you on that. here is something i think that department of homeland security gives out the grants, then the city decide. so homeland security department could say we didn't come up with this thing, but they did the zombie exercise a few years ago to not offend anybody. what they should do, why not invite muslim groups to be part of the exercise? you know, help us! >> would you play a terrorist. >> they chose zombies, there are no zombies to defend. >> in 2009, dhs put out a report, wasted money on a report called right wing extremism. >> you think this is right wing extremism in america? you don't think there is right wing extremism in america? are you kidding me? >> dana -- >> it is liberals like you that make us less safe every day.

>> i was george w. bush's press secretary. when i would get him ready for a press conference, i know, i know, practice like you play to have a good press conference. >> good to know. one more thing is next.

♪ all right. time for one more thing. greg kicks it off. >> this is more proof that all women in utah are beautiful. miss utah usa gives a pretty odd pageant answer, but i love her, because it was an answer to one of those long winded feminist academic questions. take it away, miss utah. >> i think the fact of education and how we are continuing to try

to strive to figure out how to create jobs now. that is the biggest problem. i think especially the men are -- seem as the leaders of this, we need to try to figure out how to create education better. >> i love her, easy to mock someone for this. pageantry is hard, that's why i got out of it, too much pressure. had to put nair all over my body. >> bikini competition. >> dana? >> i want to congratulatae alex smith. she was elected to the position saturday. if i was in position to hire somebody, i would hire her in a second. her two goals are bridge the communication gap with younger voters in republican party and modernize tactics to communicate with younger voters, which is

what they need. >> one goal. >> they are two goals. >> she spread it out, one goal. >> i will go quickly. personal note, congratulate hen der son that got married last weekend. it is rand paul's chief of staff, kim is the administrative director for ted cruz. congrats, many years of happiness. great people all around. >> ought to run for president. political marriages work out. >> what if they both run for president? >> hmmm. >> let's not jump the gun. you're up, robert. >> kim kardashian and kanye east. >> west. >> whatever his name is, they had a baby. i wish the baby well, please, kardashian, get off television, man. you have nothing to offer. you can't sing, you can't dance, you have a good chest. that's about it. >> and she can do something

else, which is why she's famous. now that there's another kardashian female, bob, i don't think she's going anywhere. cbs news anchor scott pelley, need to check your facts, scott. you gave an interview to deadline and said fox news decided to bite off one small part of the viewership and be happy with only 200,000 viewers that we have here at the fox let me just correct the record. "the five" on an average evening averages over 2 million viewers. fox news total daytime averages over 1.1 million viewers. and fox news prime time averages almost 1.8 million a night. so just want to get the record correct there, scott. we have a huge audience that we love and support. can't say the same for the other network. >> the great walter cronkite would say on that news show like you do now, 15 million viewers, you have single handedly brought it to 7. >> i don't know if i would say

anything and draw attention to that. >> we will leave it there. that's it for "the five." thanks for watching. see you tomorrow, everybody. bret baier, "special report" next. welcome to "red eye." it is like "everybody loves raymond" if by raymond you mean greg's special back rubs you could have anytime he wanted if we just move in together. let's go to andy levy for a pre game report. andy, what is coming up on tonight's show, you jerk? >> nice to see you started off with a lie. the leaky geek speaks, but does what he say wreak? we will take a peek. and a psychic ordered by a judge to pay $7 million after falsely telling police a texas couple had a mass grave on their property, but can she foretell whether or not we will get to this story? probably not. and miss utah explains the existence of pay inequality between men and women. if by explain you mean a bunch of words