censative. people have to keep eating no matter what. >> ben, what do you like? >> if you are on the same team sign up. >> he's been writing and cost of freedom continues for a place for business. that is always right, fox. >> you help us and we'll help you. head of the national security agency asked in congress to give legal immuneitty to private companies. should angry customers like you be able to sue those companies if they are wrongfully targeted. >> hi, everybody. welcome to forbes on fox. we'll go with steve and rick and rich and elizabeth and sabrina and john. john, should customers like us be able to sue in >> yes, we should be. companies should not be helping the federal government to snoop on us. we have to ask ourselves how much liberty we are willing to

give up in order to create the false illusion of security. to live in a fro society, risks are involved. the risks are worth to to have what we have. >> steve, if i am buying a service and i don't want them to share the service with the government should i be able to sue them if they do it against my will? >> companies for a impossible position. if they help out the government they are snooping on privacy. if they don't help out the government they are helping terrorist. the focus should be on the government and l abuses, don't bring in companies that are doing the best and caught in an impossible position. >> sabrina, the government made some of the companies their partners. >> we are taking a giant step to national socialism if our companies claim immuneitty. the government doesn't need to own the means of production for us to be in a precarious

position. before we are in a bad position in the society. >> rich, what do you think? >> well, look, i would remind my good friend john and sabrina who a are, terrorism is real. we did this and the telecoms got immuneitty in the bush administration. this is not new and it is needed. companies are put in a impossible position. nemac, isn't it time to rethink this? >> yes. >> now we know the extent? >> i agree with scombraup here's why. the government stinks because you can't sue the government. but the way the government is writing the law, there is a bill before the senate that if a company passes incorrect information, how do they on on they can be begin immuneitty

from lawsuits. how do you define that information. the nsa can store that information five years that you think might be important. india and the middle east and asia and countries putting the onus on gooble and facebook to give over information. how will you stop that if you stop lawsuits from stopping the practices. >> rick, none of us like the collusion between the government and private sector, isn't suing and giving the customers the right to sue one of the only ways out? >> maybe, but there is something everybody is missing here, it is not just the companies deciding to go along with the government. they are acting pursuant to a court order. they have to do it because they are ordered by the court to do so. that being the case by the way, we are overstating the immuneitty thing. i suspect they are following the order of the court they will not

lose a lawsuit anyway. it dissuades the >> you are talking like a lawyer. are you in favor or not of giving customers a chance for suing. >> it is not a happy answer for you. in some cases it is in favor and in cases i am not. >> john, i think rich said the most provokative thing here, you shouldn't be in favor of a suicide in protecting our individual rights and that shouldn't allow us to draw the government. how do you respond to that? >> i think when we accept security we get paralysis from the government. we have lot was federal entities telling us that stimulus and it makes the economy groechlt they

say we are safer here. i continuing is an embarrassment and sends a message around the worl that the champion of liberty is move nothing the wrong direction and a bad step for the united states. >> steve, isn't there a danger of sitting back and letting the government decide? >> one of the legitimate functions of government is protecting us from external enemies and the constitution was written by framers who understood that governments that protect you can abuse you. take it out on the government. rich hit on something. if the company has in writing a certain order or request, and the statute is cited, the company is obligged to do it. if you don't like the law change the law. >> we want to stop the bad guys. companies can stop the government saying we are getting a ton of lawsuits on our doorsteps and in india, they are allowing tax officials with access to google and facebook

data. >> the irs is different. >> india is pressuring to have government officials on-site at research in motion. >> by the way, hold on a second sabrina. why is the irs different? >> it is internal tax collection and how much money we owe the government and the abuses of the irs. this is about our security. again, this is an issue with the government. >> i understand that. we have focused on how all of the irs scandals are. but sabrina, the fact is, even though it is national security we are entrusting the same people with sensitive information and that gives me the willies. >> it should give you the willies. i have seen no evident that all of the big data is keeping us safer. in point the haystack gets so big we'll not find the needle. it is all of the megadata that is keeping us safer.

i agree about civil liberties. >> let me go back to rich. return on investment, is there a proof that it is safer? >> i give the benefit to the doubt to the people in the trenches looking at terrorist threats that are coming through. here is another factor, the u.s. is a letiggous society. no.for initiating a lawsuit and companies like google has tens of billions on the balance. it is a magnet for frivolous lawsuits if people sue google. >> i think that is right. but look, we have to be careful here. sabrina said it is no proof it did good. can you say that if you want to disbelieve what the nsa is saying. i am not telling you you are wrong calling then liars, but you know what, maybe it has saved. >> steve, let me ask you this

though. if a guy like snowden can get access to a lot of sensitive information, isn't that a problem? >> we have fraud in election and so get rid of election. you deal with specific problems and abuse asks that's what the congressional hearings are for and find out if this thing is work and this changes we make. don't put companies in the grinneder because of it. >> last thought from the boss. and subsidies interest rates. >> and one percent rate hike and that is the flip side coming up next. ttle word game. i think your friends will understand. oh...no, it's actually my geico app...see? ...i just uh paid my bill. did you really? from the plane? yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24/7. sounds a little too good to be true sir.

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>> this is a fox news alert. the judge in the george zimmerman murder trial ruling that the prosecution audio experts cannot testify on the screams heard in a 911 call.

one expert ruled him out and another said it was martin. zimmerman said he shot the florida teen in self defense last year. federal prosecutors charging edward snowden with espionage and theft. he leaked documents about government programs. he is believed to be in hong kong. nthree people dead and thousands forced to flee their homes. authorities ordering 75,000 people to leave ca lga ry after overflowing rivers washed out roads and knocked out power. back to forbes on business. ndouble trouble. less than ten days interest rates on student loans may go to 2 to 6 percent. law makers are rushing to strike

a deal to keep the subsidy going. and on the flip side rich said let the rates double, why, rich? >> well, look. we are looking at trillion in student loan default 6.8 percent is probably way too low. college costs a lot. i went and was able to go to stanford university, but only after i spent two years in a community college three blocks from my home and while i lived at home. i spent nothing my first two years and have a degree from a nice college. there are so many ways today to cut the costs of education without causing taxpayers to do the loans. >> it is a subsidy and interest rates are based on rick. and student loans have a lot of risks. >> i don't want to get to be all bleeding heart. i disagree with rich. it is about this to me, if you

create a situation where only people with a lot of money go to the better schools and let's face it they are the most ebs pensive schools. ivy league schools costs a lot of money. na what does it do to the country if only people who can afford it go there. >> it is hard to get in. >> steve forbes, i hate to be personal about it and i got in colombia in graduate and i went to northwestern and i did well. i had to make a choice based on how much i could afford, isn't that natural, steve? >> it is, david and people have to make the tradeoffs in terms of ivy's. and tuititions are sky rocketing is institutions feel charges $60,000. we have to charge that or people don't think we provide good information. >> penny-wise and dollar flush. this is what it is about where

student loans are concerned. two reasons not to let interest rates rise. we are only talking about subsidized staffer loans. it is paid for by the government. they are essentially raising the rates on taxpayers and more spending by taxpayers and the second reason, unsubsidized and private loans. they are already at 6.8 percent interest rates and not making a difference on the college. >> sabrina, we are not talking about pennies, we are talking about millions and billions of dollars. the entire student loan program could lead to debt for taxpayers. >> it is the entire student loan problem we are talking about. it is government intervention that allows them to drive up the tuition costs to obscene levels that push out on kids that afford them. and we have people who owe more in student loan debt than in credit card debt.

this is interesting the job market today. we have a 1 trillion worth of student loan debt. that is unheard of for a country like this. >> bill, sometimes the subsidized government loans leverage up the price for everybody? >> yes, you don't have to sucker punch the students. it is another way to get taxpayers off of the hook. you have the colleges guarantee the debts. they will be more careful about burying people with graduation debts. and they give not valuable degries like anthropology. >> what about putting the onus on the colleges than the taxpayers. >> yeah, i think that is a pretty good idea. bill finds a bank shot to make a good argument. i would go back to the point

with on line opportunities and the underused community college resources in this country. so many ways for people to bring down costs and have a first-class education. >> morgan, you want to get in? >> seen the republicans proposed tying interest rates to the treasuries which we do with all of the other types of loan interest rates. >> but the problem with that, steve. as we mentioned before, they are risky loans and very often for the student loans, we don't have a credit history like we do for other loans and that's why they are so ricky. nsabrina is right, we have to see it as the whole thing. the government is driving up college costs and has kids leaving school like a pion servant that are working for the government instead of having a great career. they start the mortgage without a house. >> i think it gives total proof for my argument.

two people sitting here and very successful and smart and both anthropology majors and both of whom had student loans. >> wait a minute, rick. >> i had to go to the cheaper school. i made the decision and i ended up doing pretty well. >> yes, you had to get a student loan to do it. >> rick pointed out two years in the community college and got a good education and didn't spent xroo 50 or hundred thousand dollars. >> i think any american would say something is wrong here. >> what has sarah pallen all fired up. you are trying to soak up the sun and congress is looking to sock it to you by taxing all of the airline fees. get ready to be fee'd up.

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attention passengers, fees to fly may be getting higher. find out what congress is cooking up now. and does wall street

talk about a fee for all. as if the extra charges were not enough now the government wants to tax a tax on top of the fees. airline fees get hit with taxes and apparently that is not enough for the greedy tax man. steve, you say enough already.

>> absolutely, there used to be a restaurant that said too much is not enough which is the motto for the federal government. they are not using the money for upgrading air track controller. it is enough to feed the feeding binge. this idea needs to crash. >> we pay too much taxes as it is. >> steve, this one will make your life easier. uniform tax on all airline services, they would have the sense to have high ticket prices and free checked bags and then we wouldn't have a half an hour agony why they try to stuff steamer trunks in the overhead. nemac, we are paying a fee, should we pay a tax on top of the fee? >> talking about uniform taxes and uniform and blankets. >> and trips to the bathroom. and listen, talking about flying the unfriendly skies. we have to get ready for a small

military battle. steve is right. but the ga o and congress blasts the transportation administration for padded budget and waste and a bows. stop raising taxes and put your own house in order. what we get a return for. long lines. >> and rick unger, you are always railing against greed on the part of the government and wanting to tax one more thing. >> i don't understand why they wouldn't. there is no fees where i can charge and the government doesn't tax me. airs are making the money on the extra charges now. why wouldn't they be taxed on it. >> john, you go through any of your bills, whether it is a phone bill or bill for your airline ticket and you can see all of the taxes here and there. enough, right? >> yeah, that is the problem, the federal government doesn't have a problem with revenues, what it has a problem of doing too much and if we give them

more revenue twill grow more and more and suffocate the economy. let's cut the taxes and not raise the burden on the american people. >> you know where this money is going transportation government workers and doing union work full- time. that is going in the airport and government. >> once you tack a tax on. the tax will return. ntaxes always remain and in terms of profit for the airline, you have to put it in a museum, it is so rare. >> final word? >> i am with bill on this. solve the problem and get rid of the charges on baggage fees. i couldn't agree more and if it stops people from buying tickets, good. >> you heard it before. >> exactly, john, you never get rid of the taxes. they always stay forever. >> stable stocks to buy in an unstable market.

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ready to plan for your family's future? we'll help you get there. >> we are back, a crazy ride in the stock market. and now stocks that are thriving in all of the volatileitty. morgan, google? >> they have a fantastic balance sheet and bulletproof. >> bill, you like google? >> unfortunately the european authorities are going after the company. >> what is idecks. >> if you are in a mood for a fluid company this is go to company. >> i what the heck is. >> i am not a mood for that. i wouldn't touch it until it comes down. >> oil and gas and rigging company and largest on shore rigs and balance sheet. >> morgan, you like it? >> i think the competitor are

better. >> and that's it for forbes on fox. have a wonderful weekend, keep it right here. number one business block continues with cashin in and my buddy eric boler. >> sarah palin is here governor and i fired up with distrust of the government. now we are learning irs is giving themselves cent million dollars in bonus and what does sarah think about that? >> and does the fbi own or currently use drones and if so, for what purpose? >> yes, and for surveillance. >> talk about shock and a we. fbi using drones to spy on americans. now the governor weighs in and reaction from my shocking