>>. never let a scandal go to waste. don't let unions know it. i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto. this guy is proof we need more government workers. according to new reporting they are ready for a new fight for hiring outside contractors for security jobs. does that have you feeling a little insecure. to our panel, gary, what do you think? >> there is no proof that contractors do a bad job for us with our security. this is an event, one that should be arrested. i do not want any union

employees put down in the security business. i wanted good people running the show. >> alisyn: there is a report out d. even though the nsa there are oh many gray areas and wiggle room it's all kind of anyway. >> i know something that adam might say. the unions will try to increase their ranks that theoretically if you had more government workers versus prievtd contractors that would happen. i agree with gary k., this is one off and dufess last week. you can have people, you can have people who leak confidential information funny they work for the government. call them a whistleblower. it's. they are all inning

sane to a certain extent with whistleblowers. but i do have a problem of farm this essential stuff out to contractors. i think we don't farm out the police department. we don't farm out the fire department. why should we be farming out surveillance? there is a degree. >> federal workers we could all sleep at night? >> i'm not saying there is more control in the house, more control in the police department more control of the fire department because it's in-house and this essential service and we should probably keep it in-house. >> i could not agree more with charlie gasparino. the idea they have access to the phones records of every single person in america, if not in the entire world is insane. i think they should at a minimum be subjected to whatever laws abide by the government. >> but what they were saying, within the government or outside

contractor, if they are not properly managed then they are going to leak anyway. >> there is one more level between government supervision and the contractors. >> adam, you got a little more in your favor right now? >> i could not agree more with what the last two wise gentlemen. first of all, this is, of course, as all of you know and everybody watching knows doesn't have anything to do with unions. we may fast unions weekly, rename this program. that is the setup. this same playbook. >> hold on a second. this is playbook of the tsa. in other words, it's a big body, it starts out independently but you see them, you go after it and now you have a giant, you swell your membership.

we have seen this playbook before. >> let me see that. dagen is right. that is what you would expect in organizations organization's leadership to do. what we can make about generalization, you let the idea that farm everything out to contractors run amok. it's not always the best thing to let the market decide how these things should be done. it should be done by government employees. that is point here. >> running things amok, not these guys are not unionized but abusive power and the powers that the nsa seems to have these days. >> all i am interested in is the best people in this job. the security is number one most important thing in this country we need at this point in time. i'm just saying -- listen,

i'm not saying they are not. if it is from there, fine, give me the best people. my issue when they use this as a wedge to get in there and get more of their employees into the nsa and other places. >> to that point, dagen, the irs and all these scandals going on, $70 million in bonuses. here is what happened. maybe you have a less layer of accountability with respect to management but certainly when the unions take over, you can't fire anybody and they always get paid. $70 million in a midst of a crisis? >> basically you can be screwed up and be managed by the government, witness the irs. i would argue when you put somebody's profits and put their business at risk, those companies moving forward that are private contractors by the government, if the government bears down on them, you better damn well

be sure -- >> the union sentiment here. the fact is unions will benefit from this. there will be a more union members if they move it in-house. that is it. >> let me make my point. when you farm out a lot of stuff. farm out prisons, which they have done. there is dividing line between government and private business. >> i'm just saying you 6 about third of secret top security clearances that are outside contractors right now. i don't see the harm in that despite one jerk sits in hong kong. >> contractors do lousy jok jobs and do background checks. >> do you not see that there is a missing layer as

charles put it, of accountability. surely a missing layer of accountability. these guys are party animals. i know these private contractors. they are party animals. >> i'm not a believer we will do a better job at surveillance at fighting terrorism. if you basically make all of these workers, 100 percent within the government. >> adam, why is it such a forgone conclusion by adding the bureaucracy of government that to make this program better? i have lost so much faith and i think the viewers share the sentiment in government run things? >> i understand that. i don't agree with you. in the realm of opinion but also the realm of philosophical approaches. if you hire a contractor you can hold their feet fire. you hire a contractor, they

are motivated the best profit they can. they will cut costs in order to do that. >> do you think the police do a good job? >> the police do a good job, fire department does a great job. >> army does a good job. >> this is essential service. [ talking over each other ] >> what is the argument that an essential service just because it's government, they might happen to be in the union --. >> you got the last word on this? >> the argument is simple. we just want the best people whether it's from the unions or not. the issue is using the political side of it going after one guy who we already called him a few names and using that to get more of your people in there. i don't want that. i want things done right and i want the best people for the job. >> all right. i think we all agree on

that. we'll agree to disagree with respect with unions bring accountability. and former alaska governor is fired up with the irs bonuses after this. she is sounding off at o eric boling. and don't believe the hype. it's what made the headlines that should have all workers worried. every day we're working to be an even better company - and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america.

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♪ ♪ >> fox news alert. i'm arthel nevil. state police officers and dogs searching the massachusetts home of aaron hernandez. live shot there, new england patriots tight end with the investigation into a murder of semi pro football player named odin lloyd. police had previously searched in and around the home as they try to figure out who killed lloyd.

>> obama officials pressuring hong kong to comply with the extradition of edward snowden. this after federal prosecutors charged the national security agency contractor with espionage and theft. if convicted he faces decades behind bars. snowden says the leaked documents about secret government surveillance programs and. that is it for now. back to "cavuto on business". for all the latest go to foxnews.com. ♪ >> charles: immigration bill bummer. key government says it we reduce the deficit over the next ten years. it's also saying wages would decline. for all workers. ben? >> and of course they will decline. you will get lower wage workers. historically the purpose of immigration laws has been exactly that to press wages

downward. that will do it this time, too. a lot of the jobs they will be taking are jobs that americans don't want to have in the first place. it really wouldn't matter what you plan to pay a person. not many harvard graduates are going to want to some do some of those jobs. the whole purpose is to lower wages. >> charles: i find it interesting. we have established a society where americans don't have to do those jobs because they can sit at home and collect checks. that is the alternative. if they didn't have that alternative they would be out there catfish farms and pulling the lumps out of chickens and doing what whatever job they can do. it's a luxury not to work. >> the longer you stay home the more you get checks. we have seen the numbers on

the checks being sent. as far as wages, you have a ton of people total pie and you have certain amount of money, a fixed amount of money. wages are certainly going to go down and this is going to be the outcome. you got another big bill the immigration thing. but the way they are doing it i have a about big worry how it is going to affect the economy. to hear the cbo, congressional bull crap office. [ laughter ] >> they say it's going to help the economy and help the deficit, i don't think so. >> charles: it's hard for me to believe that. cbo scores something and all these things we spend trillions of dollars but somehow we save money. >> it's like obamacare. i'm trying to think of an anti-union angle here. >> i mean i want to correct ben on one thing. he made the point that immigration is basically to

meet demand for labor, not to drive down the cost of labor. what is about this, we don't have a demand for labor, for hard labor. they are still bringing people in. i don't get it from the left. they say they are for the poor and everything to get benefits out basically help the poor, it doesn't help the poor, it hurts the poor. it drives down wage rates. >> actually, if you look at the cbo report wages will drop slightly for lower income americans and higher for middle, middle group that won't have a negative wage impact. i have the union argument. if you unionize mcdonald's prices will go up if the wages go up. if you keep wages flat or lower, prices at restaurants and retailers that we all go to will remain. >> charles: one second. >> they went into hard labor.

they did that. by the way, that was 1920s when there was need for hard labor. we don't have that need right now. >> how many factories are working. >> with you we will bring in more high skilled people. >> charles: adam. help us straighten this thing out. dagen read this report and gave us an answer that went over my head? >> at the high end, boo-hoo for the wealthy people that are going to face new competition. what are we talking about? >> there is a shortage. >> this argument is not about the high end labor. there is plenty of jobs out there. >> let adam finish. let adam finish!

>> guys, hold on! >> please, adam go ahead. >> dagen said the two things, depress wages at high end. we agree on that. we don't care about that. the impact would be tiny. statistically irrelevant. is it going to drive down wages? i'm not finished. >> charles: finish adam? >> it's going to drive down recorded wages, these 11 people are not being recorded because they are not official. >> charles: here is the thing, how about being so cavalier who's wages should go down. you are talking about americans. i don't care if this guy's wages goes down. isn't that a crazy way. >> if you ask me, at the high independent this is good competition. silicon valley people need more people.

>> that was my point. >> latest news on the immigration bill is that the republicans want more security, military security on the border. that is what is going to take to get their vote. that is going to cost a lot more money. >> that is not what we arguing here. >> you have a an influx of low skilled workers will it depress wages for low people. yes, it will, it has to be. >> charles: we agree on it will. i care about all americans's wages going down and i care about the fact they don't have to take these jobs. that is why we're in a debate in the first place. up next, it's called electric sticker shock. why the latest push from white house could have you paying more green for energy bills. we report and you may want to hide.

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♪ ♪ ♪ >> charles: going green and turning red. white house set to announce a new global warming push targeting electric power plants on stricter emissions. it will hit consumers with higher energy costs with monthly bills up 40% in the past ten years, can we

afford this? >> we cannot. look. i can give you an example. look at the chart of coal stocks after they put the regulations and mandates on the companies. couple of them went out of business. they have to raise prices on the consumer and our costs are going up. big cost is the electricity. >> charles: ben, it just seems really tough we would be asked to pay higher in electricity costs at time when the country is still trying to struggle out of this abyss that it is in? >> there is no cost too high to save the earth. real problem, do we know this is hurting the earth. science is not hundred percent unanimous despite global warming sceptics and terrorists would tell us. signs are not clear on this. it's something we should go going owl out we shouldn't

be doing it until it is clear. >> charles: what are we going replace it from what? >> coming back from china where the air is disgusting. we haven't had an crease in electricity demand for five years. this is more about the economy. >> charles: but prices are up. listen we haven't had demand. imagine what happens when we take 280 coal fire plants off line. what is going to happen to our bills? >> our bills will go up, if we don't put anything else on line. we can put other things on line. >> expiration of natural gas will drop prices down. so that is why lowest levels in 20 years. >> you want to know why the market went down 500 points, it's stuff like this. obama economy minus the

monetary crack, it's higher taxes and everything else. >> charles: every time ben bernanke speaks, he doesn't talk about coal fire plants, but dagen, there is no doubt. there has to be a better way the draconian way is going through doesn't make sense? >> natural gas promotes exploration and development of it and that will drive down co2 emissions. >> charles: up next, big ben may be saying goodbye to all that big money. ben has stocks set to roar. take theseags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busiss earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve limited reward here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day.

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>> charles: afraid higher interest rates may slam stocks. they say don't be afraid. >> tbt ultra short treasury, interest rates goes up. this goes up. >> adam? >> xlp a consumer staples, less interest rate sensitive. people have to keep eating.

>> charles: ben? >> i love berkshire hathaway, if you can be on the same team, sign up. >> charles: and cost of freedom continues with the place for business, that is always right. >> eric: sarah palin is here the governor and i fired up about distrust of the government as irs targets conservatives. now we're learning $70 million in bonuses and your tax dollars lining their wallets. what does she think about that? >> and does the f.b.i. owner currently use drones and if so for what purpose? >> yes, sir and for surveillance. >> eric: shock and awe. now, they are using them to spy on americans. now, your privacy on the line. and reaction from a shocking exclusive interview with the father of the nsa whistleblower