hello, everyone, i am kimberly guilfoyle, with bob beckel, dana perino, greg gutfeld, eric bolling. this is "the five." it is day five of the george zimmerman trial in florida. lawyers try to move who was the one calling for help as zimmerman and martin struggled on the ground before the gun went off and killed martin. he was questioned by mark o'mara about what he heard. >> the boy screamed for help, however many times you heard it, it was just one person's voice?

>> when i heard it outside i believe it was one person's voice, yeah. >> and you now believe that was george zimmerman's voice, correct? >> i never said that. i said it could have been. i was not 100% sure. >> i am not asking for 100% certainty, i am asking you to use common sense. tell us if you think that was george zimmerman's voice screaming for help, the person on the bottom. >> the prosecutor came back to refute that testimony. >> did you hear the word help. you believe there was a person on the bottom, is that correct? >> i believe. >> you're not 100% sure but believe the person on the bottom would be the one yelling for help. >> correct. >> you can't say the person on top was yelling for help, his voice would have gone into the ground and you would not have been able to hear that. you can't say he wasn't yelling for help. >> that would have sounded muffled. >> did you hear that?

>> no. >> everybody said it was powerful testimony, know the great for the prosecution. the key will be who was struggling and the positions of where they were, eric. >> awesome to watch. i am trying to figure out yesterday, i had an opinion one way, now i am going back the other way a little bit. there's some pictures they showed. i mean, some of the pictures are really, really graphic, and the pictures they were showing were zimmerman's head, it was bleeding from the back, showing him bleeding from the front, i guess the prosecution case had to say that trayvon martin was innocent and had no arrests whatsoever. am i getting it right so far? >> whether or not george zimmerman had a right to self defense, if you can show acts of aggression -- >> how didñr he get scr back if there was no trayvon martin aggressiveness. >> you're looking at that, dana.

>> i am learning from you. isn't it possible they both were calling for help in this situation? there's no eyewitness we know of, so they're going off a phone call, a 911 report, and trying to figure out who was yelling for help. i would imagine a situation like that where you have a struggle maybe both people were actually calling for help and needed help. >> you're right, probably there was that going back and forth, and guess what, if george zimmerman had died that day, perhaps trayvon martin was on top of him and hit him and george zimmerman passed away due to a head injury, would you be prosecuting trayvon martin or would you say trayvon had a right to defend himself if he got up and took the stand, said i was afraid, saw this guy following me, we ran into each other again, i was fighting him, trying to be able to get away, et cetera. it sounds to me like justifiable self defense. >> the thing about this is that it raises questions about nobody seems to have a clear idea what went on. that means reasonable doubt is probably in favor of zimmerman,

correct, because you've got -- >> selected as juror for the defense, bob beckel. >> seriously, nothing seems to be clear here. the only thing i get back to is this guy did chase this guy, he was acting like a cop and he had a gun and he went after him, and i think they ought to get the prosecution on that side. maybe because you're allowed to carry guns it doesn't matter. the idea of a community watch person acting like a cop carrying a gun around is a disaster waiting to happen. >> but he has a right to be able to carry the gun in the state of florida, whether he is joe shmoe down the street or enlisted to help the community. greg? >> to pick up on what bob says, you don't have a clear idea what's going on. there was one group had a clear idea what was going on, that was the media. the media right now is on trial for those first three to four months after the crime occurred of all of the race based content they ran with, without facts,

but emotion, because it created ratings, and every hour on cnn, nonstop, all they did was foe meanted a race trial, fueled not by facts but emotion. when i am watching this, i am thinking wow, the media should pay for a lot of the crap they put out there. and also just on the outside of this court case, there are articles saying if there's a not guilty plea, there will be riots in different cities. so in a way, our justice system is being influenced by implications of criminal action outside the courtroom, which is almost the same as witness tampering. i called it before, yesterday i called it civil extortion. this is what worries me, where judgments are influenced by things that have nothing to do with the case. the last thing i want to say, whenever i watch this stuff, i get so nervous, i vicariously never want to be on trial or be interviewed by a lawyer because

i would be a mess. and i always feel -- get all of the butterflies and stuff when i am watching. >> stay on the straight and narrow. >> i was deposed once and that was horrible. >> deposition as opposed to high profile, on tv murder trial. it is intense. can i point something out, daryl parks, attorney for martin family, on race yesterday, wanted to make it clear race is not part of the process. anyone that tries to inject race into it is wrong, the family doesn't want race part of this. once you remove race and look objectively at the facts and what they're bringing to the courtroom, remember, george zimmerman has to be proven guilty beyond any doubt, can't be any doubt he is guilty and you're hearing things stringing up. if you remove race, you wonder gee, what did happen. >> we can take race out of it, but the media can't, the rest of the media can't.

>> but that's why i was asking the question, if the situation were reversed, say wipe the color out of it, wipe race out of it, would trayvon martin have been charged and treated the same way, you know, based on the facts, whether or not you have justifiable self defense, a reasonable belief your life is in danger, and you have that right to protect yourself. >> i think he would have the same media and tv circus that's going on with the trial now. >> maybe more so. this has never been a white, black thing. zimmerman is not white, he is hispanic. >> latin. >> a lot of people made it -- >> you and i probably the second month on air, about white being minority in california, hispanic is ethnicity, not race according

to -- when you say it is not a white, black thing, it kind of is a white, black thing. >> i am saying what greg said, did i inject race right away? i think i probably did. >> if that was the case, you weren't the only one. and also i think there was justifiable criticism of the government in florida and the prosecution and wait so long to charge, so then the media put additional pressure on in order to get something done because whether in self defense or not, there is unfortunately a teenager who died, so i think that's why initially the pressure came from that point of view. >> let's listen to a piece from one of the witnesses. listen to this. i think this is very interesting. listen to the evidence and whether or not you think the prosecution so far with the evidence we have in is making a case for second degree murder. >> when you observe the

defendant, did you say he walked towards you? >> yes. >> did he have anything in his hands when you observed him? >> as i came around the corner, had his cell phone to the left ear. >> did you notice any blood on him? >> yes. >> where did you notice that. >> down his nostrils, both sides of the lips. >> you also asked him what happened. >> yes. >> and he said this guy was beating me up and i shot him. >> i was defending myself and i shot him. >> without hesitation. >> no. >> and from what you could tell at the moment, it seemed completely true? >> yes. >> eric, this is what you were mentioning earlier, talking about the injuries george zimmerman had, which is evidence, circumstantial evidence, physical evidence that he sustained some kind of injury during the altercation. so if he was fighting and the evidence is at some point -- that's what the witnesses are saying, these are witnesses for

the prosecution. when you take a case in as a prosecutor, you're supposed to interview all the witnesses, find out what case you have, they charged it as second. legal experts are saying wait a second, they're not making any prima facie case. for a second, maybe manslaughter. have they hurt themselves already with the jury because maybe it should be a question for the jury. >> can't the jury say you can't get second but we would consider manslaughter. >> they could come back on manslaughter charge. >> they're allowed to? >> that's what they're going to do in jury instruction. the judge could on motion dismiss that second degree before it goes to the jury if a case hasn't been made. >> you're still bringing out the same evidence, prosecution is trying to prove george zimmerman murdered trayvon martin. >> or was it manslaughter? at some point was it a manslaughter, there wasn't implied malice, he didn't go

there, i am tired of burglaries in this neighborhood. >> you don't change the witnesses and you don't change the questioning to go for second degree or manslaughter, still go for it. >> there are different elements of proof, but a lot of evidence is similar, it is a matter of degree, a matter of intent or whether it was some second, implied malice, where he went there with a bad attitude, sick of it, upset about the burglaries in this gated community, he was looking for someone to kill and trayvon martin was in the wrong place at the wrong time. that's sort of what the prosecution said in opening statement, greg. >> i agree. you lost me in a lot of legal stuff. >> dana? >> youced me completely. >> the jury today, am i right, they are allowed to look at the news, they're not sequestered, they can watch news or not? >> no. they aren't sequestered, but they're not supposed to in the

motel six be watching anything other than boflex commercials, ricki lake, whatever. if you see it, you're supposed to change the channel. >> how is that -- i think the burden on that is strong, maybe after a day like that, you don't want to do anything. >> if you stay at motel six you don't want to do anything but go to sleep as fast as you can. we will leave the lights on you. >> it is a lovely place. >> if it wasn't the quarters that made the bed move. >> we talked about zimmerman. anyone have a quick thought on aaron hernandez, very interesting he is looking at multiple murder charges, people are tweeting is he a serial killer? >> this is a whole different ballgame now that they implicated him in two murders the year before. first of all, i don't know who did that. it is a leak. nonetheless, seems to be enough there to suggest he was not only part of that double murder but it is connected to this other

murder because there was a witness involved in this. this person was a witness. i think this guy, if nothing else, is coming across as a bad actor. i don't know, you couldn't do -- best pr firms in the country couldn't help this guy. >> they're going to look at his tattoos for gang affiliations. >> yeah. >> what's interesting to me is how across the country, violent crime has gone down, but see more and more athletes involved in crime, and it seems like we have a cultural trend where you can no longer be a professional athlete, that's not enough. you have to have a personality, a character, you have to have tattoos, and i don't know, look at the tattoos, is this necessary for your identity. is any of this necessary for your identity if you're already an athlete, and i think the idea that being an athlete isn't enough is an issue. >> when you are mayor. >> i will have a tattoo removal machine. >> one quick thing, this is important. nobody is playing the game,

showing athletic ability as that's the thing that stands out. >> right. >> who is the guy the defense for the knicks that went out with madonna. >> rodman. >> what's your point? >> they developed a shtick about themselves. give themselves name. >> you want to do it in the bob blog? >> sure. >> talk about snowden, latest developments. eric. >> early this morning got a letter from one of my sources in d.c., it is the letter sent to eric holder, department of justice, outlining three questions that the father, lon snowden, is asking eric holder to agree to, probably enough to bring back edward snowden voluntarily, one that he not be imprisoned before trial, the second one, doesn't have a gag order, and third one being he can pick the venue where the

trial would be. sounds like a lot, but less than chasing the guy around the globe the next three, four months. >> those sound ridiculous demands. >> too much? >> way too much. you can't do what he did and say you wouldn't be detained or that the gag order, the whole point is that he spoke too much about what he knew at the time. then the venue of his choosing? i don't think so. what would the venue be? a triple hangout chat? >> they cut deals about pretrial stuff. >> is that a lot? >> picking the venue. >> he should ask for it. ask for it. >> if it changes the way the game is played, i think his dad -- more you hear about the dad, very smart and incredibly right on the things he's saying

about his son is upon -- see the group that's around him are the anti-american left, the guardian whose focus is to trash the united states, you have wikileaks, primary goal to undermine national security, glenn greenwald, openly antagonistic against the u.s. and the war on terror. these are people that if they were in charge of our navy and submarines, they'd have screen doors. >> i have been in contact with lon snowden, with glenn greenwald, called doj, they didn't respond. we're going to stay on it, hope to bring you the latest. >> get san francisco as venue. >> so how much we have to say on friday? you can never miss this show. greta is going to florida monday and tuesday covering the trial live. directly ahead, alec baldwin goes ballistic in a twitter tantrum. what's gotten the hollywood hot head fired up this time. and later, facebook friday, dana is reading questions. log onto facebook.com and say

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♪ alec baldwin threatened a british writer that reported his pregnant wife was tweeting at the funeral for james gandolfini. rather than let it go, he tweeted death threats and homophobic queen. then he shut the account down. he pulled that more than

kevorkian at a rest home. behaving in a way that would make a pig blush. the gay slur, you know, i see alec in a lot of bank commercials, does he deserve a pass by capital one the way ball a dean did not? hers was decades ago, his as soiled as a pungent diaper, fresh after a victory for gay marriage. more important, what's become of us. alec throws a twitter tantrum in his sixth decade. has 60 become the new 12? reverse maturity of a male that turns all of us into mean girls at a slumber party. men are either beta males or creepy. we have heard words that offend every group. maybe it is time to give up trying to shame every slur,

celebrate imperviousness. a thick skin is something we all could have in common. >> what does imperfevious mean. >> thick skinned. here are some of the tweets, i'm gonna find you george stark, you toxic little queen, and i'm gonna [bleep] you up. >> did he write the words out? >> he did. >> he has anger management issues. >> like you said, we're crushing paula deen for this, he should be. capital one should pull his endorsement deal. >> i am torn. i am not into destroying people's lives for snapping and being angry, i get mad when it is done to people i like.

>> you're a fan. >> i wrote a whole book on it. >> like i head it. >> his pregnant wife, if somebody attacks your spouse, you're going to lose your temper, right? >> right, except that there is a thing when a man defends your honor, or slight, there's something gallant about it, but it can go so far it is embarrassing. i would have been embarrassed. >> one of the things when you end up on a show like this or show like alec baldwin has, they tell you, look, people are going to take shots at you, pick fights in bars and restaurants, say something nasty about your wife and videotaping you while you respond. you're held to a different standard and you're smarter than that. >> if that was the case, i would be fighting every minute of the day, but what i don't understand, here is another example of social media stuff. in the past, you wouldn't have the opportunity to get all that

crap out there like this. this is another down side of the twitter stuff. how many of you guys tweet stuff. i don't, i don't tweet. how many of you said i'm sorry. you did. >> i came home one night after several cocktails and tweeted something. someone said something nasty about the special i did with sarah palin, the twitter handle was newt's best friend, went into some twitter thing with him. >> it reduces you, it is like a big cloud out there you should be able to turn off. kg, what about the daily mail. i think they're wrong, i think they got the time stamps on twitter things wrong. did the same to me, attributed a tweet i never tweeted about a person's weight, and i had to get them to take it down.

should they print a retraction? >> absolutely. i can't stand when they do that, the damage is done but they should be held accountable. unless they're made to issue apology or retraction, it stays on the record and they don't learn the lesson. >> did you ever tweet about your five husbands? >> i didn't have five husbands. people are starting to believe it. >> if eric or i called anybody a homophobic slur, we would be frog marched down sixth avenue. >> my point, you have paula deen, you have alec baldwin, i don't think they should be treated differently. >> i agree. when we come back, dana's got a stack of your questions from our facebook stage. >> that's so terrible. you're unprofessional. >> what? what are you talking about? >> would be, supposed to be mayor of new york. >> what did he say? >> facebook! stop laughing,

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♪ well, we almost got to hear what bob talks about on commercial break, we're back, we're going to answer some questions you submitted on our facebook page. got a big response. thanks to everyone. i start with you, bob. prior to each show, from william mccoy, prior to each show, is there a lot of preparation time,

individually and collectively? what a joke! >> i set my alarm for 5:30 in the morning to begin studying. >> what happened. >> i have to used this opportunity to say not much. i was supposed to do eric's other show and i slept through it. do i do preparation, i don't need to do preparation, because i am older and wiser. >> is that how larry is? who sleeps in through a 10:30 time! >> i usually take conference calls in bed. >> you must have amazing blackout curtains. >> i blacked out for about a decade. >> blackout curtain was called rye. >> give this to eric then around the table. what advice does "the five" have for young professionals. what do you wish you knew when you were 28, which was a long time ago. >> i can't complain about -- i have been blessed with a wonderful career path. someone asked me what would you tell a graduating senior what field to go into, always been wall street, there's money there, want to do that, great

life-style, great life. it is go be a lobbyist. >> isn't that crazy? >> it shifted from here to washington. >> you pay attention to what your mother and father say, wonderful mark twain thing, they have words of wisdom to pass on. >> what would you think about advice to give someone that's 28. >> two things that wake you in the night almost never happen by the morning. and things that end up getting you are things you never think about, so it is pointless to worry, pointless to think about things, it is the stuff that surprises you, you can't prepare for it. the other thing, get the drugs out of your system before you're 30. >> there are no big deals in life.

except for sickness and death, things go away. seem huge one day, six months down the road not that big a deal. take life as it comes, a door will open, things will change, look at "the five." >> bob has a nice philosophy. >> he does. kimberly, a question from william m. what was the toughest casey motion -- case emotionally. >> there are two. they're bad. i don't think i should say. >> you had stressful situations. how did you deal with that after the trial or at night? >> i still think about them, but may be more passionate about the job i was doing, why it is the right choice for me, why i enjoy covering these cases, being an advocate for victims. >> share with us. >> one was a domestic violence, another a child abuse case and the domestic violence case was a man --

>> very difficult to handle. >> very upsetting. i got them both. >> here is one that's kind of fun, bob. from tim h. you may have an apology to make. he asks why did you hit on my wife at the yoga festival last week? >> tim? >> tim, i'm sorry man, i don't know which one it was. >> did you really? >> a couple of them. >> i'm really sorry if i did that. here is a true story. we first started "the five," i was sitting there smoking a cigar, a good-looking woman came down the alley, hit on her, it was eric's wife. >> you keep doing it. >> not only that, he keeps for getting it is my wife. >> i have seen him do it three times. >> sorry, man, i didn't mean to, if she's beautiful. if it is the one i am thinking about, you have a beautiful wife. she could have done better. >> what will jasper be doing on

the midnight shift? thinking of asking you to take care of jasper. >> i would love to take care of jasper. i would be the best dog sitter. the things i would have planned. >> activities. >> there would be amazing activities. you might not see him for awhile, he'll be so happy. and he may not want to come home. he may mysteriously disappear. here is a great idea. while i am dog sitting, why don't i have the next day a special barbeque for everybody? >> invite obama. >> you could maybe find casper on a play date. i have the best dog walker. >> you want obama to eat jasper? >> we have other good questions. maybe ask bob to answer one on the break and tweet it for him. directly ahead, it is always happy hour on "the five." is it a good idea to offer drinks to employees at work? some companies are, you can pour

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♪ happy hour drinking has been a big part of after work life in the u.s., now some companies are taking it a step further. the university of illinois study says a little bit of booze can get the creative juices flowing, and bosses are now allowing employees to swig during work hours. encourage a desk side drink to ease tension, allow workers to bond. i worked in the '60s in the advertising boom, remember? >> daily friendship with that bottle attracts more people to

advertising than any salary you could dream of. >> that's why i got in. >> so enjoy it. >> doing my best here. >> you don't know how to drink, your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. my generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. we drink because it is what men do. >> are you listening, porter and tommy, it is what real men do. i will explain that in a minute. greg, you have thoughts on this. >> i do. if you can get drunk during your job, then it is not a real job. like a real job, you lose a finger. but it is really not about alcohol, it is about age. this is for young single employees that want to hook up. if you're an older guy and married, you shouldn't be hanging around with younger employees getting drunk, it is creepy and depressed. also the older you are, the chances are that you might be

their boss and selfish to hang around them, they should be allowed to talk about you behind your back. if you're standing around drinking at lanigan's like everyone at fox news, go home with your own friends. drinking at work is for young people to get drunk and get lucky. >> you mention that, the producers had to change their diapers around the third drink or so. bob, i'm sorry -- kimberly was talking. >> what's funny. >> do real men talk over women and do real men get beat by women at basketball, shooting hoops, boys? oh, yes. >> we had that easy shot. >> anything serious coming about this? >> no! >> i need practice ahead of time. >> drinking at work, okay -- >> people have a hard enough time performing at work, let

alone being smashed or wasted, come on. >> the idea of giving people alcohol during work hours, i used to have it in my desk because i needed it to keep from getting dts when i was drinking. the idea of feeding it to young people is crazy, i mean, what are you thinking? i mean, it is a bad idea, this is bad stuff. i don't know where it came from. >> people in their early 20s, mid-20s -- >> i don't necessarily believe this, but trying to think of if you were an employer and thought this was a good idea. you know your young people are going across the street anyway. is it safer to be at the office, maybe they come up with a good idea to pound out on the white board or something? >> what time are we talking about having the drinks? at 5:00 or 6:00? >> i have been drinking since 2:00. >> yeah. well, drinking -- >> i don't mix until 9:00. >> should we go? >> we probably ought to get out of this.

>> now that you told everybody where to go, by the way. >> still to come, if you woosed out at two drinks. >> they're like three. >> three, that's plenty. >> those generous people that leave a generous tip at the b, to hear about it. [ male announcer ] this is the age of knowing what you're made of. why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action.

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♪ next time you're at starbucks, you won't believe it, i've never been there, drop a couple bucks for the barista, after you spent ten bucks on the frappacinos or whatever you call them, you should know a judge ruled they have to share that cash with supervisors. is that fair? you guys go to starbucks, is it fair they share that? >> okay, good. >> glad we got this settled. >> you use the bathroom in

starbucks. >> and walmart. >> i don't use a bathroom at starbucks. the supervisors make more, but i guess they can argue by the time you add in tips for the baris s baristas, then they're making more than the supervisor. >> $1.77 an hour. >> the baristas serve you coffee, what's with the word. if they have a tip jar, have reverse tip jar. if service is bad, i take money out. >> dana, do you tip? >> i always give extra, even if somebody is something and 5 cents, i give 95 plus a dollar because i don't want to be cheap. >> crazy. >> the thing i don't want about this, litigation nation. >> book title. >> probably already been done. >> they have this lawsuit raises the price of everything, including the -- what did you call them, frappacinos.

there's nothing less expensive than $5. >> does anybody mind when they have all of the jars for charity stuff, which i am a sucker for, but you see the same kid that needs a lip operation from africa. >> that's not true. like a child that needs clept palate. >> why do they have them in whole foods. >> bob, please just say sorry. it was all bad. >> it is not that. i feel terrible, i give money to the cleft palate kid. >> are you kidding me? i have to use your line, are you kidding me? >> are we really on air? this isn't rehearsal. >> i feel good. i was in the peace corp. don't give me that crap. >> you're in thailand and

missing. >> i was trying to help women get out of trouble. >> we better get out of here. one more thing is next. don't anybody write me. i give money, i didn't mean anything bad about people with cleft palates or babies or anything like that. if you bought into that, screw you as i like to say. ♪ blistering on my shoulder. the blisters were oozing, and painful to touch. i spent 23 years as a deputy united states marshal and i've been pretty well banged up but the worst pain i've experienced was when i had shingles. when i went to the clinic, the nurse told me that it was a result of having had chickenpox. i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

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doesn't even know. >> that was justin beiber. >> miley cyrus. >> see how they look completely different? >> don't look that different. she's out there bragging that she's getting stoned with this dude, and the fact is she has a lot of kids that are teenagers that follow her as a hero, why, i don't know, but shut your mouth, if you're smoking dope, shut your mouth and go home. >> bob, cranky pants because i ate a donut in the green room, the one with the sprinkles. >> the one with red, white and blue sprinkles. >> i can't believe you did that. >> i had to get in there, friday staff donuts, you mow them down. >> my cashing in show is tomorrow. you were replaced, bob. good show tomorrow. obama care, using pro sports,

paula deen, and we got to the irs. watch. >> these bozos are buying porn with taxpayer money. >> that's wrong. you can't tell me they're any different than the rest of america. >> no, i know this is what happens when you mix wine, porn, juan williams, the irs in one show. say thanks to juan. >> that's pretty funny. >> when juan laughs, that genuine, deep laugh. >> i am next. i wanted to tell you all about, national republicans, you know everybody wants more women to run for office. >> please. >> really. and you for mayor, i may announce my candidacy. >> wow. >> now it is on. >> could have a debate between you, me, weiner. >> bungle in the jungle. >> one more thing. rnc announced a new thing called women on the right unite. another called growing

republican opportunities for women, right women right now. lots of different programs. anyway, the point is they are making a move. they have a strategy. and interestingly, kimberly is their first candidate. she's going to be announcing pretty soon. >> i have too many eating responsibilities! >> would your husbands vote for you? >> yeah, if they were in one state, the two of them. >> any twosomes? >> you're terrible. >> and greg. >> cornered, mayor bloomberg, asked him about my mayoral run, he said my candidacy is a pipe dream. well, mayor bloomberg, if my candidacy is a pipe dream, i would rather have a pipe dream than a pipe nightmare! see, i can be mayor with words like that! >> oh, snap! >> well, good for you. wow. >> okay.

i am apologizing to anyone with bad faces and -- >> kimberly didn't get her one more thing. >> i am going to go gorgeous on donuts. have a good weekend. see you back here monday! a house committee says an irs bureaucrat that took the fifth but proclaimed her innocence can't have it both ways. this is "special report." >> good evening, i am bret baier. the problem with exercising your fifth amendment right against self-incrimination, most people assume you're guilty. irs bureaucrat lois lerner tried to get around that by proclaiming her innocence of wrongdoing, then refusing to talk at a congressional hearing. today, lawmakers investigating the taxation's targeting scandal denied that exemption. chief congressional correspondent