>> brian: tomorrow big show. >> gretchen: dr. keith ablow and behind the scenes of kilmeade and friends? >> brian: never before has anyone seen what we're about to reveal. >> eric: really? >> brian: of the whole radio world on television. >> gretchen: have a great day, everyone. >> brian: be on the after the show show. it will be great. bill: knock *. another critical day in the george zimmerman murder trial. i'll take you to florida where the defense will continue their cross-examination of the lead detective in the case. martha: the jurors hearing george zimmerman's account of what happened that night through the police interviews he gave. here is a piece of the audio reporting that were played in court. listen to there is. >> i was walking back through to where my car was, and he jumped out from the bushes. and he said, what [bleep] you

are problem. i got my cell phone and called 911 and said i don't have a problem and he punched me in the nose. at that point i fell down and tried to defend myself. he started punching me in the face. i started screaming for help. i couldn't see, i couldn't breathe. >> were you still standing at this point? >> no, ma'am, i fell after he punched me the first time. it was dark. as soon as he punched me i fell backwards into the grass. then he grabbed me, he was wailing on my head and i started yelling for help. he grabbed my head, he started hitting may head. i tried to sit up and yelled for help. he grabbed my head and started hitting me into the sidewalk. when he started doing that i

slid into the grass to try to get under him so he would stop hitting my head into the sidewalk. i was still yelling for help. i saw people looking. one guy was calling 911. i said, he me, he me, he put his hand on my nose and he said you are going to die tonight. i don't remember much after that, i just remember i couldn't breathe and he still tried to hit my head. bill: the police officer who did that interview described george zimmerman's reaction when he heard the first time george zimmerman was dead. >> he gave me a blank stai blann his face? he said, he's dead?

i said, i thought you knew that. >> at one point he put his head down looking down to the floor on the table and shook his head no? >> something like this, then ... >> what did that evidence to you? >> i believed he didn't realize he was dead based on what i had seen but i don't want to speculate as to what it meant beyond that. martha: then we had this man take it stand. he, the lead detective in the case. his name is chris were were ser. >> obviously there are a lot of

questions. is there anything you might have said that hadn't been in that phone? >> someone on the videotape said or far * the defense hammering that last point home. they hammers serino on it during the cross. >> the fact george zimmerman said thank god somebody didn't videotape the whole event, his statement, what did that indicate to you? >> either he was telling the truth or he was a complete pathological liar, one or the two. >> is there anything else in this case where you got the insight that he might be a pathological liar. >> no. >> everything he told you to date has been corroborated by

other evidence you were already aware of in the investigation that he was unaware of. >> correct. >> so if we were to take pathological liar off the table for the next question, do you think he was telling the truth? >> yes. bill: that was a witness for the prosecution. does he help the case or does he help the defense? phil keating is outside the courthouse in sanford, florida. zimmerman's attorney mark o'mara picks up his examination. >> reporter: mark o'mara is putting on the self-defense case and he has the officer on the stand who originally recommended manslaughter.

he said the evidence in the beginning supported zimmerman's self-defense case. he said zimmerman's injuries do not appear consistent with being pummeled 23-30 times by martin. and he couldn't figure out the time line on when martin smothered zimmerman's nose and mouth. also the little gated community only has three streets but during the police calls he couldn't remember the street names. and also it was quite odd zimmerman would be concerned after shooting and killing a 17-year-old that he maybe couldn't help police with another interview because he might miss work or some school. jurors saw his interview the day after the shooting where he had bandages on the back of his head

submitting to a dna swab. prosecutors said there swore inconsistencies but as a whole zimmerman's story did match up with witnes with it -- with zims story and witness accounts. bill: how did the jury react? >> reporter: absolutely riveted. they were staring at the tv screen and were absolutely riveted as george zimmerman tells his version of what happened. >> i thought he looked eight. he said you are going to die tonight. an reached for me -- i felt his arm going down to my side. i grabbed it and i grabbed my

firearm and i shot him sometime. >> reporter: the friend on the phone with him last week was so important for the prosecution. the judge is listening to a motion by prosecutors to dismiss some of the testimony elys testy yesterday. martha: we'll get back to the testimony and talk about how these state witnesses are slowly turning into excellent defense witnesses as it turn out in many cases. but first we'll look at some of the other stories going on this morning. we are going to an unbelievably sad story as the tributes begin to pour in and the nation mourns the loss of 19 elite firefighters killed battling a massive wildfire that was out of

control in arizona. it's still burning today. and it remains out of control after the loss of these firefighters. you start to learn the stories of these families. the widow of the 29-year-old andrew ashcroft. he was the father of four little children. and she is already able to speak out about her husband's bravery and devotion. >> he was the best person i ever met. he gave all for his family. martha: as you start to learn these stories they are truly heartbreak. >> reporter: overwhelming grief has struck this community. they had a public memorial last night and hundreds of people

showed up to pay their respects. the majority were pretty young. many were in their 20s. there were several ma reerns on the crew. three have babies on the way. poyjeck's father works for the los angeles fire department. >> i lost my best friend and my guardian angel and he will never be forgotten. >> reporter: while the families continue to mourn the firefighters are heading back up to the fire today. there are thunderstorms in the area. thunderstorms and that means lightning and that many the last thing anybody wants to see right now. martha: these families are just

incredible. so articulate and heartfelt in the midland of what must be shock and grief for them. they want to know -- they will want to know count road what happened out there when all of this came down. what many the latest on this investigation? >> there are so many questions. they have launched a full investigation into what happened. more questions than hanses at this point. these guy are the best of the best. they would go into places other firefighters couldn't. they do this quite frequently. they were in members fighting another fire -- they were in new mexico fighting another fire. but certainly the families want those answers. martha: what a tough time is is for all of them. you can learn more about these extraordinary men. the hotshots they were called. their life stories are details on our web site.

under the arizona fire story, each story when you read about these young men, three babies on the way and obviously friend and family members to all of this community, it's unbelievably heartbreaking story. she is incredible. bill: 14 of the 19 were still in their 20s. snowden breaks his silence and takes on the president. and who he's asking for asylum. but is he running out of options? martha: look at what's going none the streets of cairo, egypt today. the president has 24 thundershowers respond to these protests. according to the country's military the role they are now playing when we come back.

martha: drivers are hitting the road for the 4th of july and getting a little bit of relief at gas pump. it's now 15 cents higher than it was at the same time last year. bill: $97 to fill up the other day. hundreds of thousands of egyptians are in the streets calling for their president, democratically elected, to step down. the military is given 24 hours to respond. i was reading over some of the comments you gave to our producer. even you do not know which way this will go. why is it so difficult to figure out what happened next? >> i think the various forces within egypt you can see the

opposition on the streets. all these various forces are divided among themselves. the opposition has different perspectives. the military is divide. the muslim brotherhood itself is divide. you see element of morsi's government resigning today. i think the muslim brotherhood is not going to take it well if morsi is forced out of office. this conflict is not going away. bill: the president called on the noilt be responsive to the protesters. what does that mean? >> who knows what the president means. when morsi took over a year ago the egyptian economy was in the tang and he has not on not made it better, he made it worse. that has people understandably upset. but for a particular reason as well. they see the muslim brotherhood

pursuing its islamist sharia law agenda as if the economy was only a side issue. i think that really burns people and that explains the emotion behind these protests. bill: it feels like it has been going on for two years in cairo. are you of the school that believes this administration pushed mubarak to the side and did it quickly and willingly but is not eager to do the same with morsi? >> i think we made a big mistake. i said it at the time in forcing mubarak out. he's no jefhe's -- he's no jeffn democrat. but he said if i go the muslim brotherhood will take over.

the brotherhood won narrowly. but other extremist groups won 3/4 of the seats in parliament. this dissatisfaction doesn't mean a more competent islamist government could not pursue these objectives. bill: he said he will not quit. he has had five ministers resign. his liaison with the military, he step aside. when the military made the announcement, cheers erupted in the streets of cairo. did the military say you need to listen to the protesters and if they say resign you should do that? >> i think this is important. i think people misread what the military said. certainly it's an ultimatum directed in part at morsi. but it's also directed at the opposition. the military doesn't like these demonstrations in the street. not only for the disorder it

represents but it's another signal the egyptian economy is going to remain in the basement. how many tourists are going to egypt when these are the scenes you see. a young american was killed a few days ago. i don't think they want to take control of the country. that's not in their interests. they want the political leaders to resolve these interests and get back to what matters and that's the economy. bill: when you come on and say i have no idea what happens next, there is drama. john bolton, thank you, ambassador. martha: we are watching with great interest what's going on in florida at the zimmerman trial. the prosecution is trying to get some of the stunning testimony from yesterday thrown out. we'll take you there live. the great outdoors...

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martha: we are back in the zimmerman trial. what we are watching ... they are going over a few things from yesterday. just about a couple minutes ago the matter was brought before the judge that some of what we heard yesterday from the detective chris serino who was asked by mark o'mara to characterize the way zimmerman respond and the way he was talking about last night and to say do you think he was telling the truth, and chris serino said i don't think he's a pathological liar so yes, i think he was telling the truth about the way everything played out with trayvon march tun. then we heard from the other detective investigator singleton and she characterized the reaction he had when he learned

trayvon martin was dead. she said he looked down, and was shocked, he didn't know he was dead. they want to strike it from the record because they believe these witnesses gave a characterization of whether he was guilty or not guilty or lying or not lying. let's bring in our attorneys this morning. bradford cohen is a defense attorney an. are they right to go after that testimony and try to get it thrown out? >> certainly either try to get it thrown out or some instruction at the end that their opinion is whether someone tells the truth or not shouldn't weigh in their judgment. what happened here was the prosecution was asleep at the wheel which it seems they have been asleep at the wheel the whole trial.

martha: this is chris serino. he is going to be taking the stand again. the jury has been brought in. they were not in the courtroom moment ago when this was being discussed. the jury is in the room now and we'll watch as this proceeding begins. let's let brad finish his thought. >> they should have objected at the time this was made. it's basic. if someone takes the stand and the prosecutor adds, is the defendant a liar, i would be jumping out of my chair saying objection. you should object at the time it was made. they were asleep at the wheel and now they are trying to make up for it and get it thrown out. martha: debra, what do you think? >> i 100% pea gro% agree with b. they should have objected

yesterday. the prosecution has been asleep at the wheel. martha: we don't know how the judge is going to rule. she'll think it over and she'll come back. as you say, though, is it too baked in the cake at this point with these jurors. chris serino is a very compelling witness. he's the person who spoke to george zimmerman very shortly after all of this played out and he told him his story. >> i think it add another layer. i think each witness that takes the stand is adding another layer that credits the defense. this is just another layer. once that bell is running i don't think you can get that out of your mind that the lead detective is saying i don't think he's truthful. it's hard then to have the judge say forget what you heard and go on other evidence. somehow, some way that always creeps into people's mind.

martha: we are going to take a quick break and be right back with this live, riveting testimony. [ ding! ] ...heart health... [ ding! ] ...and muscles. [ ding! ] that can only be ensure complete! [ female announcer ] the four-in-one nutrition of ensure complete. a simple choice to help u eat right. [ major nutrition ] nutrition in charge.

bill: while we were away the jury has been called back into the room and the judge told the jurors to strike from the record the comment that was made at the end of court when officer serino was asked about the truthfulness of george zimmerman. here is the officer on the stand for day two. >> confidence in himself so you might get some movement in his story? >> not necessarily. it could have been. it might have been what tony might have used. >> would you defer for the jurors' consideration how you presented yourself in the interview rather than we going over repeating it.

>> yes, sir. >> but you agree your purpose was to challenge mr. zimmerman. >> it could have been. >> and try to undermine his confidence in himself or tell you more or change his story which would then give an opening. >> i would characterize it as trying to extract the truth. >> did you extract the truth or any change in his story through this technique? >> no, sir, i did not. >> he was consistent throughout, correct? >> yes, he was. >> an was consistent with all of this prior statements, correct? >> to my knowledge, yes. >> as the chief investigating officer you have had availability of those statement, correct? >> yes. >> there were expansions and minor inconsistencies, right? >> yes, there were some variations of accounts. >> but nothing you considered significant.

>> nothing major, no. >> nothing that's evidence to you that he was lying to you? >> objection, your, honor, improper argument. >> sustained. >> anything that you considered to be significant. >> nothing that i could challenge, no. >> i'm going to play a portion of the tape you heard yesterday. if you can't hear it i'll play it a second time. this is the part of the investigation where you are playing for mr. zimmerman the 911 call which has the screams in the background, to put it in context. i'll try to get the volume correct so i may need a couple

tries. it's 182. >> it's a male. >> you don't know why? >> i don't know why. >> do you hear mr. zimmerman? >> i would have to hear it again. >> sure. >> we'll keep it low until we get to that point. >> if there is anything that needs to be changed ... >> i ask for the level --

>> i can't do this anymore. this one. >> police, fire or medical? >> do you hear the voice in the background? >> police, fire or medical? >> there is screaming out. >> i think it was pointed out on two occasions yesterday that there was a suggestion mr. zimmerman said it doesn't even sounds like me. do you remember that? >> yes, sir. is it your opinion -- your opinion -- did you interpret that mr. zirm ma -- that in zimn was denying it was him or saying

it didn't sounds like him. >> objection, opinion. >> sustained. >> did that change the direction of your interrogation, that statement he said doesn't even sounds like me, does that change the direction of your interrogation of him at all? >> no, it did not. >> did that cause you any concern whatsoever? >> no, it did not. >> if i might have a moment, your honor. i want to make sure i get the right portion of the tape. >> what's the address?

>> 121123. >> is it a male or female? >> it's a male. >> you don't know why? >> i don't know why he's yelling for help, i don't know. >> does he look hurt? >> did you hear his voice in the background? >> yes. >> you heard his voice and he said that doesn't sounds like me? >> that didn't change what you did as far as the investigation? >> no, it did not. >> similarly in the challenge

interrogation told him you were moving from the interrogation room to another area by your decks as well. >> correct. >> that was to listen to the tape, correct, which also changed setting for him? >> no, because of the facility, i didn't have a computer inside the interrogation room. >> you said in response to a question yesterday that you perceived mr. injury to be minor, correct? >> yes, sir, that was as you looked at him after midnight. >> correct. >> we showed you the pictures of his injuries before he was cleaned up, correct? >> yes, sir. >> did he need to have any injuries at all for to you look into the investigation of the

crime or investigation? >> no. >> that's not an element? >> as far as having injuries, no. >> you saw him on the 27th after midnight, correct? >> yes, sir. >> then he went to work the next day and saw you on the 27th in the afternoon for the re-creation of the video. >> yes. >> then he came back to talk with you voluntarily on the 29th. >> that's correct. >> did you talk to him after that? >> we had conversations. >> that was over the phone? >> yes. >> did you talk to him again in person.

>> not that i can recall. >> when you spoke to him on the phone, that was in order to forward your investigation about the crime and any defenses to it, correct? >> i believe he contacted me but the ultimate goal would have been to forward the investigation. >> all of his communications with you even after the 29th he was cooperative? >> yes, he was. >> answered any questions you had for him? >> yes. >> presented himself to do whatever it was you want him to do? >> yes, he did. >> you have done even more than just take the interview of my client as part of your investigation in this case, correct? >> yes, sir, from another aspect of the investigation. >> met with other witnesses. >> you met with tracy martin. >> yes, i did. >> at your office. >> there and at the residence.

>> why did you meet with him at the office? >> objection, beyond the scope of direct and calls for hearsay. >> we'll take one at a time. it was not covered in direct. it's not hearsay. the question and the answer that it would elicit. i'll sustain. >> if i'm allowed limited leeway as the chief investigating officer in the case to answer what else he has done in doing exactly his duty. >> you can do that in your case. >> call him as my witness. >> if you choose to do so. >> then i will do that. i need to get this back if i can just have a minute.

>> good morning, sir. i'm going to ask -- i'm not going to ask you the opinion of anybody, that's improper. my question is ... >> object, your honor as to the non-question of this witness. it was nothing but a comment on the previous ruling which is inappropriate. >> sustained. >> my question is mr. o'mara asked you about anger and ill

will and hatred, you remember him asking you questions about that. >> somewhat. >> heed about your under view with the defendant, you reviewed it and investigator singleton's interview, whether there was hatred, spite, ill will. do you recall questions like that? >> somewhat, yes. >> i want to may something for you, sir. if i can figure out how to do this. martha: we are going to take a quick break here. but we are going to come back to the zimmerman trial where there has been. >> very interesting back and forth this morning. gretta van susteren is in the courtroom. she'll join us moments away. one of the big issues going on is whether yesterday's testimony that characterized him as whether he is a truth-telling witness, that won't be allowed. but it's already out there.

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bill: back inside the courtroom. chris he ar serino getting quess there. debra, where is this going with this testimony on day two? >> i think we have to look at the past few days. yesterday the prosecution presented testimony, they had video recordings of george zimmerman talking about what occurred moment after the day after,ed the prosecution had zimmerman de facto testify without cross-examination. today the prosecution will elicit from serino that

zimmerman had ill will. they are trying to get the elements of first degree murder. >> none of the witnesses are helping the state. i haven't seen one witness that was beneficial to the state 100%. you see that a lot. if you try enough cases. you see people that take the stand and they are 100% on the prosecution side. in this case almost every witness helps the defense in some way, somehow. this witness specifically helps the defense. i don't see how he's bringing out a lot of damaging testimony from him. i think the prosecution is failing all the way around. today they finally got their objection pants on and they are objecting to these questions which they should have been done during the whole trial. martha: they have their objection pants on and we madder them objecting. one of the things i want to get back to. when you hear zimmerman on the tape listening to the tape

himself where he's hearing the cries for help and he says that doesn't even sounds like me. the detective was asked was that significant to you that he said that? let's stay with you for a moment. what did you think about that exchange? >> when he said it wasn't significant, i think the jury is going to discount it. when anyone hears themselves on tape or see themselves on tv. they say that doesn't sound like me or i didn't know i looked like that. i don't think he was saying that's not me, he was saying, wow, that doesn't sounds like me. i didn't take to it mean anything huge and obviously the lead detective didn't either. >> thank you, bradford. you are listen together interviews, the audio recordings of the police interrogation and the questioning in the days after the killing of martin took place. let's drop back in here and see

where this goes. >> in terms of investigator singleton asking the defendant about what's going on, he stated that they always get away, you recall that? >> yes. >> didn't he say that to the non-emergency. >> i called before, the police have come out but these guys didn't know -- >> who are these guys. >> the people committing -- the perpetrators.

>> you have seen more than one person look suspicious doing these burglaries? >> yes. >> investigator singleton had him clarify when the defendant in that interview on the 26th stated these guys ... you had him clarify or describe what he meant. the defendant said the guys who committed these burglaries, correct? >> yes. >> and then to the non-emergency operator earlier that evening, when he spotted trayvon marti martin ... >> objection, calls for

speculation. >> do you recall mr. o'mara asking you whether he was profiling trayvon martin? >> yes. >> if somebody were to believe another person was a criminal, would that be a form of profiling. >> objection, speculation and irrelevant. >> overruled. >> if i were to believe you are a criminal and i followed you and did something wouldn't that be profiling you? >> no, i'm proper opinion testimony. >> he can testify if he knows. >> going to opinion ... >> let me make sure it's clear. if i were to believe that somebody was committing a crime, could not be profiling that person? >> object, your honor, leading.

>> overruled. >> do you understand my question. >> it could be construed as such, yes. >> your view of the evidence there, was there any indication that trayvon benjamin martin, the young man i think 20 days past -- just turned 17 -- was committing a crime that evening? >> no, sir. >> was there any evidence that that young man was armed? >> no, sir. >> you were asked by mr. o'mara several times and i think he made reference your last interview being a challenge interview. i don't know if you agreed with him on that or just agreed to use the terminology. dew agree that was a challenging interview? >> i wouldn't quite class fight

as that. but it couldn't be viewed as a challenging interview. based on his view of it. >> his being mr. o'mara's? you know what i'm referencing to? the last interview with the defendant on february 29. >> yes. >> mr. o'mara asked you whether there was inconsistencies or not. >> yes, sir. >> i want to play certain parts of you where i believe you questioned him about whether he said something inaccurate or said something different. i want to ask you about these, if i could. >> we got him on the line.

>> you played that recording for the defendant and asked him about that. somebody may refer to that as a challenge. but you recall the question about that? >> yes, sir, i pointed it out to him. >> i was just [inaudible] in the same direction ... i was on the other side. >> you were scing him point out

an incon i 10 i, the defendant was claiming he was not following and you said that's following. you recall that. >> yes. >> i'm getting out of my car. that's wait sounded like. that's what it sounds like you are doing. that's why he asked you the question. it sound to the dispatcher that you were running. that's why he asked you that question, are you following him, and your answer is yes. but you get to the other side and you are concerned about what's inside this guy when you have been chasing him essentially. and you want us to believe that you are concerned about having a flashlight to move back to where

you just ran? you know what i'm saying? >> do you recall you and investigator singleton questioning about that? >> yes. >> about there possibly being an inconsistency based on the evidence. >> words to clarify. >> by the way, while we are at this point mr. o'mara asked about videotaping. dowel you questioned the question about the videotaping and you showed hip the victim's camera at the scene where the body was, and you stated in correct and cross-examination that you were bluffing. you were telling the victim potentially videotaped the whole thing, is that correct? >> yes. >> and you knew that not on true. >> at that point yes. >> my point is, the defendant made a comment like i hope to

god there was videotape you recall that? >> yes. >> mr. o'mara asked about stores and other places that have videotapes. >> yes. >> the defendant i believe you already testified was head of the neighborhood watch and lived in that neighborhood for a while. >> yes, sir. >> so he would have been aware if there was videotaping or not in any of those buildings. >> i would assume so, yes. >> i know you weren't there when it happened. but you would agree that the interaction between the defendant and the victim in this case, the defendant was aware of whether the victim before he got shot took out the video and videotaped the defendant, correct? he would know that. >> object, that would be speculation. >> sustained. >> was there any evidence that the victim said before you shoot me let me take out my camera and take a picture of you while you are shooting me?

>> there was none. >> is there evidence that the victim as the defendant was following him said hold on i have to take a picture of you so there will be a record that you are following me. >> objection. >> sustained. >> was there any evidence the victim said stoop right there let me take a photograph and videotape you before you shoot me or follow me then shoot me? >> no, sir. >> so when mr. o'mara asked you whether you knew that or not, he would have known that. >> i would assume so, correct. >> so he gives you a [inaudible] >> objection, based on speculation. >> sustained. >> let me play another recording for you. >> you are concerned about having a flashlight to move back to where you just ran? you hear what i'm saying?

you had a flashlight with you. >> yes. >> about what he had said, bed, correct? >> yes, sir. >> is that what you were doing there? >> yes, sir. >> do you recall -- prior to shooting him he was on you, correct? >> yes. you shot at point blank range web was on top of you, right?

nobody came out to help you in the night. >> [inaudible] so ... >> [inaudible] he's going to stop. >> do you recall you and investigator singleton's challenge to use mr. o'mara's words challenging him about whether he was being smothered or not? >> yes, sir.

>> do you recall watching on direct and cross-examination -- i believe it was on direct -- being asked questions about the videotaping, the reenactment? >> yes. >> that occurred on the 27th. you recall that between the defendant and you took him back out to the scene. you were present for that, correct? >> yes, i was. >> do you recall the defendant walking and he's walking the route where he claimed he went. do you recall that? >> yes, sir. >> and do you recall him at some

point saying he went to look for an address and there were no addresses to the left because those were the back of the buildings, do you recall that? >> yes, sir. >> do you recall -- i'm sorry. >> so then i got out of my car and started walking. i was still on the phone with non-emergency. >> okay. >> because i didn't see a street

sign here, but i knew if i went straight through it should circle:'. giving it addresses of the houses in front. there is no address because it' the back of the house. >> do you recall that testimony, sir? >> yes, i do. >> do you recall -- >> i don't know an address. they asked me what direction he went in and i said i don't know. >> right there on that corner, you recall that? i want to show you a photograph of the front of the lowery residence. is there a numerical address at the front of her house? >> yes, there is.

>> is her address 1211, sir? >> yes, sir. >> so the defendant in that reenactment when's pointing at the back of these house claiming he doesn't an address. there is an address staring at him, isn't that true? >> yes, there is. >> objection, this is still redirect. >> i'll rephrase the question. when the defendant turns and points on video to this side saying there is no address because it' the back of the house right to the right. is there a house there with an address? >> yes, there is.

>> for the record, exhibit 33. let me show you state exhibit number one. and i'm going to put a close-up of part of that. for the record. state exint exhibit that's a photograph of the area. as you were pointing out as you were to use mr. o'mara's words challenging the defendant in that interview you pointed throughout were only three streets in that neighborhood. and this street the defendant claims he doesn't know is twin tree and right here is miss lowery's address, correct? >> yes, sir. he claims he did not know this street and didn't happen to see the address here. but did not know this street,

correct? >> yes, correct. >> thank you, your honor. martha: we are going to come out for just a second. gretta van susteren joins me now. she has been inside the courtroom. and of course she went out to the neighborhood to see the area being discussed right now. gretta, welcome. the prosecution has been having a rough time. he's trying to regain some ground right now. what do you think? >> well, actually i understand he's trying to regain some

ground and you never know what the jury is thinking. but right now the prosecutor is trying to show inconsistencies between the different statement the defendant made in an effort to defeat the fact that the defendant said he did nothing wrong, he was acting in self defense. what's interesting about today's testimony. at the end of yesterday the defense lawyer asked this officer asked whether he necessity season believed the defendant and he said yes. the prosecution must have had a stroke when that happened. the prosecution came back this morning and asked the judge to strike that question and answer. and after some discussion, the judge did do that. turned to the jury when the jury came in and said strike that question and answer. but that is a gold mine for the defense because now the jury has been remeaned by the judge this morning that this witness on the witness stand believes zimmerman, even though the jury is supposed to strike it from the memory. they heard it yesterday now the judge highlighted it telling them to strike it.

rough day for the prosecution. what the prosecution is trying to do is chip away at the credibility of george zimmerman but they are doing it through this police officer who said i believe the defendant. martha: he went over a couple simple things with chris he are yochris serino.he said was in ao believe trayvon martin was there to commit a crime? no. was he armed? >> no. he wasn't armed. he continued to go back to the language george zimmerman used when he was walking along assessing the operation. he claims he was suspiciously looking around at the houses around him. how powerful is that language coming out of george zimmerman's mouth? >> it's like art pornography. what's one man many art is another man's pornography. the jury will be thinking -- they will decide whether they

think george zimmerman is a vigilante, thug, out to kill and out to be aggressive towards a young man walking through the neighborhood or whether they believe george zimmerman was walking through an area after making phone call to the police and trayvon martin jumped out at him and he was the atbressor going down fighting for his life. it depend on the jury. you may be persuaded and i may be pe persuaded by the cross-examination. what is the jury thinking? do they see him as a thug, a slij land tee trying to get trayvon martin. or do they see him as a neighbor and he tries to retreat and trayvon martin jumps him. martha: you don't flow what they are thinking and they are witnessing this up close. thank you very much. we'll seer and be sure

to tune in tonight. she'll be reporting from inside the courtroom on a special edition of on the -- of "on the record."

bill: we get mark o'mara back to the question table. from time to time could hear the audio drop out. that's because we are monitoring and trying to eliminate the possibility or eliminate any bad words that may go out over this cable station. so far we have been okay with it. but when it happens that's the reason.

>> and from time you viewed this as a slang term? would you agree? >> i heard him say it. >> he didn't say the with the screeching ...

>> you know from your investigation he was a bit frustrated. bill: in trying to monitor this, we want to keep it pg-13 or even pg. some of the language is being exchanged is unacceptable for our audience and not acceptable for us. so we are going to drop out of it for 30 seconds to make sure we protect ourselves and protect you at home. family broadcast. we'll keep it that way. we have a former new york city investigator. you had very few good words to say about the state's case as of last friday. on this tuesday have they gotten better. >> yesterday was pane important day for the prosecution. you had the state's witness,

detective serino backtracking on his belief about zimmerman's story. so he confirmed just about that he was telling the truth with some inconsistencies, but telling the truth. >> when the videotape was played yesterday, when the audiotape, the sound of the interview zimmerman did the days after the killing. how does that play with jurors? >> it depend on the spins that the defense attorney puts. it is what it is. he made those statement. he has got to deal with them and so does the prosecution and the defense has to counter anything that's going to support that he was acting in an aggressive manner, that he was racially profiling the individual it's an important 911 call for both sides. bill: chris serino, how do you

think he's doing. this is your line of work. is he any good? >> he's doing his job. he has done his job to the best of his ability. he didn't have much to work with. basically everything that he's been told has been confirmed in one shape, way or another. and the minor inconsistencies, if you ask somebody a question 10 times, rephrase it 10 times, you will get slightly different answers. but for the most part he was consistent throughout. bill: you said at the top you seem to think he's doing a good job. is there any reason to think he would not? serino sounds like he's an amenable guy. >> he's doing a good job. there is nothing wrong with the line of his questioning. >> when you said he didn't have a lot to work with, what does that mean? >> in terms of stand your ground law. it creates quite a bit of conflict.

i like the fact that he wanted to hit him with manslaughter charges because it would then be forwarded to the district attorney's office and the granted jury. in new york just about every shooting case go to the grand juriy. so you have a higher authority to make that decision. bill: he many the one who suggested manslaughter in the beginning? >> he did suggest manslaughter, and i believe it would have been a good thing to institute the manslaughter charges, send it to the grand jury, let them make the decision on the evidence. very complicated case, especially the stand your ground law in florida is the most liberal in the united states. bill: steve, thank you. while you were talking there was more action inside the courtroom. martha: what mark o'mara is trying to do is chip away at one of the strongest things we have heard from the prosecution. that is when george zimmerman was on the phone and the those

conveyed about trayvon martin he he said these blanks, they always get away. these blank punks they always get away. those two key phrases which is what we are trying to [bleep] out for you. it could make it apparent to a juror that george zimmerman profiled him and made a judgment about him, that he thought he was a criminal and went after him. what they are trying to do. o'mara is asking serino, when he said those words to you, do they sound the way the prosecution sound when they used those words? and serino seems to be suggesting here it would appear that when he heard simmerman say those words they were generalizations like yeah bad guys always get away. that's where mark o'mara is trying to get away. whether he's successful with the jurors we have no idea.

but that's o'mara's line. we'll stay on top of this and get some news in here. we'll be back with more on america's newsroom. map.

>> i'm talking about the physical altercation, apologize. my understanding from -- what is your understanding as to when mr. zimmerman got to this area, what path he took? >> may i stand in. >> please do. >> would you face forward. >> yes. my understanding and interpretation is he's coming this way, he walks. i'll get a pointer. okay, he walks, her his statement, all the way over here. he says he doesn't see him, he says he doesn't see him. okay. and the altercation, physical altercation started right there approximately [indicating ]

>> okay, great thank you. with that as context, then, do you know exactly where mr. zimmerman was when the nonemergency operator said, we don't need you to do that? >> based on his statement, he was at his vehicle, which would have been i believe -- wherever he parked it on twin trees. >> it's your understanding of the investigation that mr. zimmerman was at his vehicle when the officer said, we don't need you to do that? >> that was when he was exiting his vehicle, that is my understanding, yeah. >> then how many seconds went forward as he was walking before that conversation occurred? >> objection, assumes facts not in evidence that he was walking. >> sustained. >> how many seconds -- you heard the tape where you can hear him

getting out of the car, correct? >> i heard the sound of the door being open, so i interpreted that. >> that he got out of the car, right? >> yes. >> and then you know that he was going -- he was walking in some direction because he said to the officer in response to, are you following him, he said, yes, right? >> objection as to facts not in evidence, walking assuming a fact not in evidence. >> rephrase your question. >> you know that he was following him because he told the nonemergency operator that he was, right? >> yes, sir. >> and you know from the conversation that mr. zimmerman indicated to the nonemergency operator that he had cut between the buildings, right? >> yes, sir. >> okay. so, if i might approach again. >> if we're clear as to what you just testified to, he parked his car somewhere in this area, correct? >> correct. >> and then -- go ahead. >> back here somewhere. >> right.

>> so he -- >> did you say forward? i'd have to hear it again obviously, somewhere very shortly there after leaving his car, that's when he was asked are you following him. and he said yes. >> and mr. zimmerman has indicated that mr. martin had gone between the buildings, he was out of sight, correct? >> yes. >> yet you testified a moment ago that pursuant to mr. zimmerman's statement he had gone down to rain tree circle. >> that was his statement. as far as him having a visual when he got out of the vehicle i really don't know. i wasn't there. he didn't say at any point which way he was running. am i making myself clear? >> i'll try and clarify it a little bit more. my question a little while ago is whether or not you had any evidence to support any contention that mr. zimmerman continued to follow trayvon martin after being told not to. do you have any evidence to support that?

>> i would answer i have information, yes, that there was -- just based on where we located trayvon and the fact that the altercation happened after his conversation. that's my interpretation there was some -- following. >> let me ask it this way. do you have anything to contradict mr. zimmerman's statement that he walked the rest of the way to retreat view circle and was coming back towards his car when the interaction, whatever it was, between trayvon martin and him occurred? >> nothing tangible, no. >> go intangible on us then. what do you mean nothing tangible? what do you have? >> the circumstances, the totality of the whole thing that i'm looking at, as i interpret it, when he says follow walking behind trying to find a direction i construe that as follow. ef wahe was trying to do something in the same direction where that i von wawhere

trayvon was going. >> he was trying to see where he was? >> as far as the word "follow" as my report may indicate it's, you know,. bill: legally speaking not illegal to follow him. chris serino said that a moment ago. let's get a quick break. ♪ for a strong bag that grips the can... get glad forceflex. small change, big difference. backflips and cartwheels.mile? love, warmth. here, try this. backflips and camm, ok!s.mile? ching! i like the fact that there's lots of different tastes going on. mmmm! breakfast i'm very impressed. this is a great cereal! honey bunches of oats. i hear you crunching.

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call 1-800-417-4350. or go online to lifelock.com/plansafe. use promo code plansafe, to get your free shredder and get 60 days of lifelock protection risk free. bill: during the break as the trial streams live on our website at foxnews.com. bradford coen with me a criminal defense attorney. we will go back into the trial. what mark o'mara is doing at the moment is re-creating for the jury that moment that trayvon martin and george zimmerman came foist t face-to-face? how is he doing. >> i think he's doing a good job. i think the defense is laying their case out very appropriately. i think they are being methodical about it, they are addressing each element. i find that the prosecution is really lacking here. bill: you're speaking as a defense attorney too here,

right? >> absolutely. i mean listen, i see both sides of the coin, and i try to always look at it objectively to say, like okay, maybe the prosecutor is doing something right here. i don't see it happening. and another thing that is unusual is the judge is allowing on redirect to just go over the facts that he said on direct, and that is not what redirect is for. redirect is to redirect on little things that were brought out on cross, to just correct those things. and that is not really what is happening here. the judge is allowing a lot of leeway. bill: what is the effect of that? >> you know, the thing is is this. is that mark o'mara tried to go into what else did you do in your investigation? and the prosecutor finally objected to something, and he objected and the judge sustained it, said it was outside the scope of direct. then on redirect remember asked, did you see the video?

did you do other interviews? did you do this? those are all new things that mark o'mara now opened the door, mark o'mara should be able to say now, well what else did you do in the investigation? that redirect is not really a redirect, it's just going over the same facts that he went over in direct. it wasn't really addressing a lot of things that happened on cross. so the effect is that it's not an effective redirect. i don't think the prosecution is scoring many points here. martha: let me ask you this. bradford, in terms of laying out the path here, because that's what they were just doing with that map, and george zimmerman said he was going back, right? he was going to go back to his car and he claims that is when trayvon martin jumped out of the bushes and attacked him basically, right? >> correct. martha: so one of the things that we don't know obviously because we don't have trayvon martin's side of this story, is, you know, sort of whether or not indeed george zimmerman did decide to go back to his car.

because he's gotten himself way into the center of this after he was told, don't follow him. it raises some questions that i think people have had all along about this case as to whether or not he had a better alternative. whether or not he could have waited in his car for the police to many could, whether or not he needed to pursue him as he went into those two buildings. you know, all of that i think is something that the jurors will want answered here, in terms of what george zimmerman's other options were that night. did he have other options that might not have ended this way? do you expect that we'll hear more of that from the prosecution? >> i don't know. you see the problem is is that legally it doesn't matter what your options are, if he was following him, if he was aggressively following him, but he was not the first physical aggressor, that's what is important, and that's why mark o'mara keeps saying, is there anything illegal about going up to someone and saying hi? is there anything illegal about

saying, get out of here or i don't like your shirt. martha: we'll be right back to you. let's listen in. i get what you're saying. >> are concerning the videotaping, i can put you back to the tame. my memory and tell me if i'm wrong was that when you were talking to mr. zimmerman about the idea that trayvon martin may have had a phone, that was the videotaping thing you certainly did it in as believable a way as you could, remember? >> yes, sir. >> you know how to get it across to him, correct? >> yes, sir. >> he seemed smug as though he already had made this decision? well you can try and bluff me if you want, but i know he didn't have his phone out. was there any of that that came across to you? >> no, sir. >> in this challenge interview is that exactly what you were looking for to see? >> partially, yes. >> and none of that came across to you, did it? >> none at a all. >> as a matter of fact he seemed

quite interested in the fact that there may have been a video tape, correct. >> yes he did. >> didn't he also say that he maybe without his knowing he hoped that the homeowners association had put up another video camera somewhere in the back area? >> yes he did. >> he actually said to you, not only do i hope that trayvon martin was somehow taping this. or since he had the phone out, or whatever, that somehow maybe it was on video, and he said, what were his words, thank god, i hope they were videotaping. >> words to that effect, yes. >> he even said to you, well maybe it's being videotaped from somewhere else, maybe the homeowners a soerb ra kwraeugs had put uassociation had put up a camera going down the doug walk that i wasn't aware of, or any of a dozen neighbors may have had a video camera out, correct. >> yes, sir. >> didn't he say that he hoped the one person who had come out that we now know to know john good ma maybe he had videotaped it? >> i don't know if he verbalized

that. he seemed to be very open to having something videoed, he -- yes. he seemed to be very elated in the prospect that there was some sort of videotape. >> hoping that that would actually document what happened that night? >> yes, sir. >> are. >> another challenge that you did -- one moment if i might, your honor.

>> another challenge that you did to mr. zimmerman was concerning this question about the hands over the face, correct? >> yes, sir. >> that was a concern of yours, right. >> yes, sir. >> he said he placed his hands over my face at one point, i really thought he was suffocating me, words like that, correct. >> yes, sir. >> and yet on the screaming, on the 911 there wasn't a great deal of muf phufl link would muffling would you agree. >> no there was not. >> had there been muffling it would have been perfectly soared natured with what mr. zimmerman told you, because that would have been on the tape. and in this case it didn't,

correct. >> correct. >> you would agree that the screams are from one person, correct. >> based on what i heard, yes. >> and they were just that, screams, stop, scream, stop, scream, stop, correct? >> yes, sir. >> 4 and i think you said that you also believed mr. zimmerman may have exaggerated as to the number of times getting hit, correct. >> yes. >> mr. de la rionda brought it up again as an exaggeration. >> possibly, yes. >> we talked about it how it might be perceived when you're the one getting hit, correct? >> yes, sir. >> it may also be that you perceive getting smothered even when somebody has their hand on your broken nose? >> possibly, yes. >> he may have actually had a hand on his mouth or nose but not enough to interfere with mr. zimmerman's continued screams for help, correct? >> correct. >> so even though you challenged him on that, you try and come up with an answer, he told you, i

don't know, right? >> correct. >> did he change his story at that point, realizing that now you got him on a fact and just say, well, actually i turned over and i was screaming the other way and that's why? did he do anything of that? no, sir he did not. >> he just basically said, i think he had his hands on my head, right? >> yes, sir. >> i think he was trying to stop me from breathing. >> yes, sir. >> and it hurt. >> yes, sir. >> and just so we are clear in that regard, would you agree that there may have been some screams muffled enough so that -- since they didn't show up on the tape? >> there could have been possibly. >> with that last challenge, call it the suffocation challenge, was there anything in

that challenge of mr. zimmerman that you thought then was problematic? the way he answered it? >> no, sir. >> now let's talk about the video, where mr. zimmerman seemed maybe for the second time to not notice miss lauer's number on the right-hand side, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and as he's walking you through it again, voluntarily doing what you wanted him to do, right? yes, sir. >> he sort of looked over and said i didn't see anything here, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and obviously had he looked to his right, if he had been in that correct spot, and had he not been blocked by the tree that the jury has seen in another picture that he might have seen, could have seen his lauer's numbers, correct? >> yes, sir. bill: the suggestion that mark o'mara is doing here is trying to show the jury that george zimmerman wanted the truth about the incident to go out.

he was aware about the videotaping, he was a there were recordings by police and expressed the desire that someone in that neighborhood had a video recording of the incident between him and trayvon martin. a quick break here.

martha: all right we are back in "america's newsroom" with live coverage in sanford, in a. this is the detective, chris serino who questioned george zimmerman the night of the incident. let's listen in. he -- this is mark o'm to establish whether or not anything was left out of the questioning that night that might have been helpful. >> that's all i could do is be okay with it and that's -- >> and then you were questioned about a number of things concerning the investigation. i want to talk to you about some

of those. >> okay. >> the medical examiner's report you had a chance to review that, correct? >> yes, i have. >> okay. and the medical examiner's report and it's findings were consistent with mr. zimmerman's story, were they not? yes, sir. >> okay. as far as how he shot him, correct? where he shot him. >> yes, sir. >> and the distance between the muzzle of the gun and the clothing, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and also that there was a gap of a few inches between the clothing and mr. martin's chest, correct? >> yes, sir. >> evidencing that though the muzzle of the gun was up against the chest -- i'm sorry, up against the shirt, that the shirt was not up against the chest, that there was a few-indifference inch much difference. yes, sir. >> didn't that support the

notion that mr. martin was hanging over mr. zimmerman leaning forward when the shot was fired. >> yes. >> had he been standing up as i am now the shirt would be up against the chest, probably, right. >> probably, yes. >> and if i lean over my shirt will fall away from my p chest a few inches and that seems to be how it was, correct. >> yes, sir. >> the medical examiner's report, however does not support a contention, an allegation that mr. zimmerman pressed that gun against trayvon martin's chest before he fired it, does it? >> not from the one i read. >> as a matter of fact the known evidence completely contradicts that type of a suggestion, doesn't it? >> from what i understand, yes. >> so no pressing of the gun against the chest, was there. >> not based on evidence that i've read, no.

>> 4 and you saw the 7-eleven video. mr. de la rionda suggested you didn't have it then. you've certainly seen it since? >> i don't think i saw the video it telephone. i think that was brought after i was -- >> have you seen it? >> i've seen still, stills. >> and the stills that you saw showed trayvon martin in it. >> yes, sir. >> and show him the way he appeared that night? >> yes, sir. >> so, when you say that certainly in the autopsy photograph that you wanted to show mr. zimmerman, which again was part of the challenge interview, correct? >> yes, sir. >> you hit him with something, soerl sort of emotional, to ground him that he had caused the death of this person. >> it was graphic, yes. >> and that's the purpose of it, right? >> yes, sir.

>> the picture of mr. martin at 7-eleven would you agree that that shows somebody at his height, whatever that might have been, and the shoes and the hoodie and wearing the outfit that he was wearing that he did not look in the 7-eleven video to be the skinny kid that you showed the picture of to mr. zimmerman, correct? >> correct. >> much larger looking individual. >> i would agree with you, yes. >> okay. my height or so? i'm 6'2". >> correct, yes. >> if i was wearing a hoodie and had his choose on, correct? >> yes. >> so when you talk about relative size, although i think you said that mr. zimmerman not today, but back then wouldn't come across as a skinny kid, correct? >> correct. >> when you look at the actual height differential there was quite a height differential, wasn't there? yes, there was.

>> and therefore a reach differential? >> yes, sir. >> you know what that means, right? >> yes i do. >> what is that? >> a reach is measured arm to arm sideways. >> if i may have a moment, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> thank you no further questions. >> any re-redirect? >> yes, your honor. >> let's start at the very end. would you agree that after somebody dies they don't get taller? >> excuse me? i'm sorry. >> have you ever heard of when people die that they get taller? >> oh, no, sir. >> so you're not disputing if the medical examiner were to say that they measured him on a

table, that trayvon martin was only 5'1" # 1, you're not disputing that are you? >> no, sir. >> i mean you're not trying to tell the jury that after trayvon martin died he grew to be 6'2", are you? >> no. >> i mean have you ever heard of that, somebody dying and growing taller? >> no, sir. >> okay. and by the way, mr. mark o'mara asked you, i want to make sure i understood your answer, are you saying that in seminole county it's against the law for somebody to wear a hoodie at night? >> objection, your honor, that is a miss characterization of the evidence and my question. >> i think you need to rephrase it, because -- >> are you saying it's against the law for a person to wear a hoodie at night? >> no, sir. no, sir, i'm not. >> i believe that your investigation and your interview of the defendant, that he had a

phone, correct that night? >> the defendant? >> when he observed the victim, trayvon martin? the defendant had a cellphone, right. >> yes, he did, yes. >> you didn't find any evidence that the defendant when he's claiming he's seen this suspicious activity videotaped or photographed this suspicious activity that he claims the victim was doing? is there any evidence of that? >> i'll object your honor. >> just a second. what is the objection. >> outside of the the area of recross. >> overruled it's not opening it up. >> are you were asked about videos, right? was there any evidence to indicate that when the defendant claimed that the victim was committing a crime or about to commit a crime that he videotaped it since he had a phone with the ability to videotape or take photographs. did he ever do that? >> no, sir. >> you were asked about this item that was found behind some bushes. isn't it true that was part of an awning that mr. manalo had there.

>> it was part of his house. >> there was no evidence that it was used as a tool or slim jim or anything like that? >> none whatsoever. >> and you would agree that an expert, or if he's qualified as an expert. medical examiner, or assistant medical kpeupber would be better qualified as to the findings he made versus you saying what he said? >> yes, sir. >> you would defer to a medical examiner would you not? >> absolutely. >> mr. mahr asked you a question about the burglaries that were being committed at twin peak lakes, and you determined that there were some. >> yes, sir. >> and the defendant had made calls about them, right? >> yes. >> are and i think referred to

it as a black male, right? at least one of them he referred to. do you know whether the other individuals he had called on were black males or not. >> from what i call researching, then, yes, they were. >> would you say that that is a rerog torrey term -- bill: very compelling testimony. chris serino has been on the stand for an hour and a half already this morning. we are going to take a very quick break. we'll get you back to this when we return with more in "america's newsroom." who's new in the fridge! i help support bones... [ ding! ] ...the immune system... [ ding! ] ...heart health... [ ding! ] ...and muscles. [ ding! ] that can only be ensure complete! [ female announcer ] the four-in-one nutrition of ensure complete. a simple choice to help u eat right. [ major nutrition ] nutrition in charge.

martha: very interesting morning in the zimmerman trial. we'll have more coverage of it throughout the rest of the afternoon starting with "happening now." bill: that serino guy, that guy is right out of what -- he could line up and get a part -- >> he's a detective, really getting a grilling. bill: you close your eyes and you hear the voice of sylvester

stallone in this guy. this guy should be from brooklyn not central florida. the trial continues, so does our coverage with our colleagues next hour. martha: we'll see you back here on monday -- or tomorrow, how about that. we'll be here wednesday. bill: wednesday, yes. jenna: brand-new stories and breaking news. the george zimmerman murder trial underway right now, bill and martha were just talking about it. we heard new testimony from the lead investigator to questioned zimmerman the night he shot trayvon martin. we'll bring you the dramatic new developments, get you caught up on that. growing questions as we learn that a ten-year-old girl whose family successfully fought to get her an adult lung transplant didn't have just one transplant last month but two. we'll tell you more about this story. and he's one of just five surviving quadruple amputees, veterans from the wars in afghanistan and iraq. the remarkable recovery