time, they want more clariction on manslaughter and exactly what kind of clarification, we are about to find out. >> and thanking jennifer and candace. we go to harris falker with the fox report. >> fox urgent. a busy saturday as we are on verdict watch in the george zimmerman murder trial, playing out in central florida. we'll split screen it and you will see the field we often see, there is activity going on in the courtroom and has been in the last now minutes, but when they are in side-bar, as they are talking about yet another question that came from the jury, we cannot hear what the judge and attorneys are talking about. but we have inferences and ideas of what they say. my guests will chime in momentarily. to the left of the screen, is the growing crowd that we have

watched all day long outside of the courthouse in sanford, florida. to catch you up, the judge called everybody back to the courtroom including the media, get there immediately and it was not about second-degree murder, a question that the jury had. they wanted clarification on manslaughter, the lesser charge against george zimmerman, a task of the six women deciding. it could come any moment. they really don't have a dead line and they can go on as long as it takes. when the verdict comes down, we'll file and hear it together right n . right now, we have a question of manslaughter to be dealt with in the courtroom. george zimmerman shot and killed trayvon martin. he was a neighborhood watch man.

and the jury is trying to decide the truth. with regard to 29 year old zimmerman, second-degree murder, which would bring a possibility of 25 to life in prison. or the lesser charge of manslaughter, still decades in prison. or the jury could acquit him altogether and he could go free immediately. within the past hour, the court zimmerman returned and shaking hands with the lead attorney and smiles there and then the side-bar, the first one and we heard this from the judge. >> we have a jury question. may we please have clariction on the instructions regarding manslaughter. phil coating is live for us in sanford, florida. the judge called a recess and how long and then what? >> the recess was about an hour

and ended up being the time the judge called everybody in there5 but the judge and attorneys just wrote down a note that said, the court cannot engage in the general discussions but may be able to instruct if you have a specific question. please submit. and so the judge asking the six women to be more specific about what your question is about manslaughter. you get something very specific

we can better answer it for you. but the court is not allowed to speak in general and vague terms, the judge announced she ordered dinner for the jurors and they didn't deliberate between 6 and 7, 11 and half active hours of deliberation starting yesterday afternoon and all day long today. and took a lunch break and only two questions, one yesterday which was a request for the evident list and inventory list. and finally at 6 o'clock today, an important question about the manslaughter charge. it seems to indicate that the jurors may not be looking at second-degree murder at all anymore, and may now be focusing on two options for george zimmerman's future. guilty of manslaughter or not guilty at all. >> it is coming down on the saturday evening here on the

east coast. phil keating, we'll come back to you as the news warrants in florida. we are happy to have you here. first of all, dan, i want to start with you, is this in opening now for the defense, a window to be a little jubillant if you will? is second-degree murder off of the table. >> most likely second-degree murder is off of the table. the instructions are to not consider manslaughter if he is convicted of second-degree murder. that would not be a victory for the defense. i saw you going back and forth notes inially, why not? >> i agree it is something in the 90s or 95 percent that they have already rejected the top

count, however, i have seen a number of times where we speak to jurors afterward and they say no we were debating second-degree murder and when juror said to juror number two, if you rehear the instruction that may answer your question. i agree with my colleague that they have moved past second-degree murder which is consistent and considering manslaughter. but phil said guilty or not guilty and then there could be a dead looked jury. >> it is hard to imagine we are used to juries being 12. and fewer people doesn't mean easier. >> most cases it is a 12 person jury. fewer people that need to agree, but six people in a complicated

case have to agree. >> when you say potentially and 95 percent is a good average. you go to vegas with that average you are doing well. we are talking about a man's life here. and so now, you walk in the courtroom, and showed video. just the posture of george zimmerman, shaking hands and smiles that were changed. the defense conversation with the client and how are they helping navigate. that is an insightful catch. the lawyers are telling him what they told everybody which is watching, george, the reality it is a high possibility that they have moved past the second-degree murder and considering the lower only and carve in some wiggle room as lawyers, however that is a possibility is not the case

but the poenlt is that is not the case. >> his arms are open and shaking hands. we are making sure we are not giving out information but we have eyes and can judge it. we don't know what is said. dan, you what you would be saying. >> both lawyers agree. they want more clariction and not only can you clarify manslaughter. they want to know the issue? >> why is that important? >> manslaughter is complicated. negligence and near negligence to convict the defendant of manslaughter. and very related issue of self- defense. is that how self- defense related to manslaughter. i would want to know that. if they read manslaughter instructions to the jury, i want

the self defense statutes read to them. >> let's pop it up on the screen. manslaughter on the screen for you now. intentional act that caused the death of martin. a merely negligent act is not manslaughter. >> i have seen many, when they come out and the judge said we would like to reinstruct the law on count three. the point is, lawyers get together. one thing people have to realize, being a lawyer at trial and what you do in jury deliberations is important as the trial. and the strategy of what you will agree to and not to and when you are going to argue with the judge and when you are not is huge part of trying your case. >> i want to make it clear, that was not just a blanket

definition of manslaughter. those words were the instructions that the judge gave. they are broad. those are the actual instructions that the judge gave to the six jurors. is this an opportunity if you are the defense to get the judge to be more specific based on the argument and bring in self defense and actually sway the jury. they agreed to ask the jury what information they are looking to seek. you will see the jury told that and the jury will follow-up and asking a more specific question and likely see more debate between the lawyers on how to answer the questions. this may be a long battle that plays out over the hour or two. >> things happen in a trial leak a football game. it is quick and throw the law

books out of the win dow. tli will be killing themselves if they don't get self defense read. nmanslaughter is a, bor c and by the way, self defense vitiates manslaughter just like second-degree murder. >> i want to tip my hat to the vowers that are tweeting with me. i know some of them are attorneys and very a tout and they know in this case, one of the things that was not argued was immunity that was for george zimmerman. if you argued that in the first place, we wouldn't have a trial. you are talking about self defense, wouldn't that be in the instructions? >> stand your ground if you have an opportunity to escape you don't have to take that avenue. you can stand your ground, here george zimmerman said he was

underneath trayvon martin with his head slammed in the concrete when he used deadly force. there is no avenue of escape and avoiding you. it is not a stand your growned issue. >> harris, it is unfortunate to be candid, they felt there was no way they would win a flat out dismissal. >> let's spend a few seconds talking about that. and you want to pop that seal up again. we don't have activity to report going on in the courtroom because there is no open mike going on right now. we are in verdict watch and there is quite a lot of movement inside of the courtroom and we can't listen to it right now. attorneys and the judge and everybody talking about the clariction and manslaughter and how and whether the judge will go back to the jure. y wo are not mussing anything.

before we go to the commercial break, i have to know. you and i have talked about this before, dan. just the idea that you brought up, there was pressure to bring charges in this case, is that justice? >> no, i don't think it is. the reality is, what is amazing harris, how vociferous the two sides are on the case. it is amazing. there is always a rational way you look at evident. one side said it is a s if fight and super official injuries and no room for debate. the other side said you are kidding me. his head was slammed on the concrete. and reason why there is so many on the case our country is divided. look, local law enforcement said we are not bringing charges.

we believe the story. >> that's why we have a jury system,ine though there is pressure. six citizens in the community will decide if george zimmerman is guilty. >> i am e-mailing back and forthwith the prousers and we'll take a quick break. this has spun on a dime. we'll be right back, stay close. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat mo dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there.

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he's seen it. it's all over. nothing but daylight. yes i'd love a cookie. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. the all-new nissan sentra. ♪ >> and we continue our braking news coverage tonight. the jury in the george zimmerman murder trial, asking the judge now the second question.

a clarification on the manslaughter charge against zimmerman. they have been deliberating for a little more than 11 hours before taking this break. if we pop it up, you will see the seal in the court. no one is in the courtroom. we don't know where they are having the conversation, but they are talking and trying to figure out at this point if the judge will go back to the jury and hear what their question has to do with. what is the detail they need instruction on and the attorneys will make the case and what they would like the judge to instruct the jury and make the point chlor. it is an opportunity for the defense or prosecutions to sway the jury. manslaughter is a lesser charge than second-degree murder which was the original charge in this case. the jury is smaller than most of us aroused to seeing. six and not 12 and all women.

we'll bring in our legal panel. we have collin and judge alex. and judge, you have joined us and mercedes, you and i see each other in fox hallways. mercedes. you said two things are going onnine in the break that ring true about the case. >> number one, they want to she everyone. this is a methodical analysis about the facts. we are not emotional and we are not jumping to the bait. and that's why they asked for the itemization of the evidence. it sounds like they have gone murder two and now focusing on manslaughter, which obviously is a coup for the prosecutors. the defense fought about that and wanted it strictly murder two. they felt the prosecutors did

not persuade with murder two. >> are you surprised it was 11 hours? >> no, i predicted two days. juries can turn around in hours or days and we look at cases that were similar and say in that case, they came back in this amount of time. issues and the complexity of the case, and jurors, they call vary. can you popul the schematec. they have been sequester and we look at the democratic break down of the women. it is rare, but not you know, not like we have never seen a jury with all women. and we'll talk about who is on the jury and what things about them could weigh in the decision with my two guests on the set.

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♪ >> we are in braking news mode tonight on fox report. i am harris faulkner and you are watching live from sanford, florida, the seal inside of the courtroom that we are fixated on for 13 or so hours. the jury has the case. and they are in a break. we know they are at dinner and asked for clarification on the manslaughter charge an hour or so ago. and the judge piped back with what detail do you want and she was encouraged to do that by the attorneys in the case.

exactly what you want to know approximate manslaughter so she can best answer the question. they are at dinner and in an hour they will reconvene and maybe have answered the judge's question. when the nows breaks we'll bring it to you. we'll continue my conversation with my guest. mereddies collin and judge alex ferrer. what about the make up of the jury will have something to do with the findings in the case? pop up the silhouette picture of the six women and the break down. and the numbers correspond with the preselection process. each potential juror had a number and they were put in the jury box. we kept their numbers and they are sequester. e40 is white female in the fours. and e16 white in the 30s.

and white female 50s and b- 51 white fenail in her 60s. what do you think? i know mercedes, there is nothing in the screen that tell me how they will go. >> no, but we peel back a bit. some of them are gun owners and partners. five out of the six are mothers. the sixth is not and doesn't mean. they are equally empathic. and certainly what is really going on here, we simply talked about the dna of women and how they look and perceive situations and when they look at things that are broader, it is only in our dna. we need to determine whether a environment is safe. most women start with the first, what do you get out of your car? and when law enforcement don't follow him? why did you do that as opposed

to the jury charge. what was happening to george zimmerman moments before the gun and trigger was pulled. >> that is what the defense was saying, mercedes, you say in the beginning, it was one more for the prosecution than the defense? >> i agree with that as a generalization. when lawyers pick jurors they generalize. women are there and men are not. not all women do the same. women do tend to look at the big picture and men are focus oriented to the time that for example, the confrontation occurred which is what the defense wants. they want that focus and the prosecution said tell the whole story. he followed when told not to. and got out of the car and it looks like women would be better for the prosecutions. but the individuals and you start to find out things that

are peculliar to them. and they settle a lot of times for the jurors because they know what is coming down the pike. we have these six and we may not be six. but we have two or throw more tricycles and the next people coming we don't like. >> you don't want to have the juror excowed and the judge will not excuse the juroror. and now there isap issue regarding sitting on the jury. >> some states they do that in open court but in florida they do it in private. >> one. issues early on that the prosecutions was going to lean on. i ponent to two with you judge alex. you talk about how the race card did not work for the prosecutions. we heard one little section in closing arguments, and we have a little bit of that.

can we watch that where race came up in the closing arguments? i am curious to know what happened to it? it is almost not talked about at all. but you look at the courtroom and the potential conversation that people are having. local law enforcement getting ready for whatever is going to happen, you can't ignore the ponent. >> i can tell you what happened outside first, it was played up as a racial incident when it does not appear that it was. if you want to say race played in a part to the extent that the area was burglarized by young tone agent black males and when trayvon, a young teenage black male he may have fit the description. that is not racism. if it was young hispanic males. >> the only time race comes in when it is a bis.

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on exactly what they want to know about manslaughter. we'll keep you posted to what is happening. the court convened and the jurors wanted clarification of the murder charge. zimmerman claimed he shot the tone age in self defense. phil keating is live outside of the courthouse. the jury is at dinner? >> yes, dinner was delivered 15 minutes in the courthouse. and the attorneys were instructed by judge deborah nelson they were free to leave the property for an hour. so they could go off and feel free no verdict will be rendered and determined and announced while the 7- 8 o'clock dinner break is happening. george zimmerman and his family and attorneys for both sides and

the prosecution and the parents of trayvon martin and extended family, zimmerman as well, they have all regouted themselves to staying right around the area and not going too far. parking is at a premium and a lot of people are taking out parking spots and 8 o'clock, it portends that the six woman jury will deliberate late into this saturday night and perhaps we'll have a verdict later tonight, otherwise, they may choose to return tomorrow. we don't know how long they will go. and how long they want to deliberate. they have been deliberating since yesterday afternoon. 13 hours at this point. and seems like they wanted clariction and perhaps the second-degree murder charge is not on the table and the six

women are trying to decide whether manslaughter is applicable based on the testimony and facts of the case, or whether self defense is more clearly proven here and that george zimmerman ought to be found not guilty across the board. that's where we stand right now. and the only two questions to come out of the jury and it is a quiet day. 150 people taking sides and some wants him to be found guilty and is not to prison and others acquitted and freed. all in the hot, hot summer sun. things are mellowing down right now and at 8 o'clock the jury will get back in the deliberation room and put their verdict hat back on. >> they literally could go as long as it takes. there is no deadline, on this.

>> phil keating. >> the prosecutions hoped toous theeracy card and they talked and telegrapped about it. and mercedes and judge alex is here. you were going to finish your thought on this. >> i talked about race was a issue in the defendant or the victim in this case compared to the burglaries. and racism itself, that was i guess, assumed which is natural and i think it would be normal for people to expect and i would expect people to say. older white male choots a younger. >> he's hispanic. >> i don't know if i am white or hispanic. >> you are a white hispanic. >> it is natural for them to say if racism is involved. that is how it would be to reject the idea that happens.

but once there is no evidence of it and turned out that george zimmerman was anything but a racist and there is plenty of evident of. that the only evident in the term was trayvon using cracker or creepy. >> the star witness, the prosecutions i guess they didn't see it coming. putting those words in trayvon martins. can we watch that quickly by the way? let's watch it. >> he told them the man, the man looked creepy. >> you say the man looked creepy? >> creepy white. to my neighbors cracker. >> they are having trouble hearing you. so take your time. creepy as cracker. >> and creepy as cracker? >> certainly not something they

wanted to hear and little bit surprised. it is what the judge said before. there was no evidence of race. nexcept one statement that was said, but there is nothing to back it up. 911 tapes, zimmerman never said anything about the individual being a punky black kid. >> if we extrap poalate. and take racism to the table that would mean fear. and if we take that out of this case, it is a situation where perhaps george zimmerman shot because he was afraid for any number of reasons. maybe he did it, who knows? >> hatred and spite? >> it takes a huge playing card out of the deck for the prosecution. >> and the defense could say no evidence that george is a racist, but the racist is if anyone had a racial animist, it is trayvon martin and that

coinicides to george saying he punched him in the face. >> they never it said. >> why did they. >> why did they avoid it. >> don't bring race in if it was not a bis crime. it would have had bis in the indictment itself. with that evidence, that's the reason and they would inflame the jury. >> they are asking about manslaughter charges. so previously our guest doug burns said 95 percent sure they have moved on from second-degree murder. >> right. >> what is the burden of proof that is different for manslaughter versus second-degree murder. and if there was not enough evidence for one. >> it is not burden of proof. it is beyond every reasonable doubt. and they have moved beyond murder two unless they didn't follow the instructions.

trayvon martin is dead. he was killed by an act of george zimmerman, manslaughter by act which is what he was charged with, is fall back if you don't find self defense. if it was killed but not self defense, then the jury convicts me of manslaughter. i killed him and it was not justified. >> i will ask you two, to sit back and watch the live interview. frank taffy is george zimmerman's neighbor down in sanford, florida. it was in his yard that trayvon martin was first seen by george zimmerman. frank, you are with us live now and thank you for being with us on the george report. >> i have a question for judge ferrer. what trial are you watching? because first of all, if they took murder two off of the plate which is a depraved mind, i

don't know what trial you are watching. but the government still has yet to disprove self defense. i haven't disagreed with that. i haven't disagreed with that. >> i have seen your interviews. >> tell me what you are talking about? >> you are in the camp that you were pushing the racial profiling, i heard you saying it. >> i have been pushing racial profiling. >> judge ferrer, let me share this with you. >> frank, i am open to the fact that you guys are going to talk and i asked them to stay, but i want to ask this for the viewers. you know george zimmerman and friends with the family, have you spoken with him since the night this happen? >> i have spoke to him april ninety-ninth of last year, right before he was taken into

custody. yes, dichat with him. >> what did you talk about that pertained to the case? >> two days before he was taken into custody he shared with me, he started his own web site and the individual that was burglarizing my house and the same one apprehended five days later, mr. emmanuel burgess brought up in closing, he shared with me on the night my home was burglarized he was walking his dog and the fact that he shared with me, i had asked him, is there anything else i can share with the public that you want me to say, i had a police report in front of me on the night officer tim smith appeared on the immediate left and his nose was messed up and by the way, doesn't need an x-ray. and laceration on the back of his head and he wanted me to

share that with everybody when they wanted to take him out and string him up. >> frank, you are defending your friend and quite defensive, how dow feel about the way the case is going right now. no doubt you are following it closely? >> i am extremely confident he will be acquitted. right now, i have some insight in the fact that it is 5- 1 in favor of acquittal and one hold out is now looking at manslaughter charge. it is supposed to be voluntarily. if you look at it should be involuntarily and cull pappage negligence and. >> question for you. i know you want to talk with our guest can you stick around after the commercial break or two? >> i would love to, but i am an easy war hole on a easy loop. frank taffy weighing in on what

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>> we are live tonight, fox report, following the situation that is going down if sanford, florida. we'll pop up the fold so everyone can see. we'll go back to the courtroom for george zimmerman's murder trial. we expect that to happen momentarily. they are at dinner, but just to catch you up, they are at dinner and they have asked a question of the judge in this case specifically about the charge of manslaughter in this decision. the jury is eating dinner after convoening for a second day. six women, weighing whether he is guiltier not of second-degree murder and manslaughter, not anything at all. he will be not guilty or a hung

jury. it makes sense, if they moved on from second-degree murder and now to manslaughter, we are ticking down the list. the nation, all of us waiting for a verdict and the families of the two men. 17 year old trayvon martin who died on february 26th, shot and killed by george zimmerman who said it was self defense. dperaldo rivera is live and getting ready for his program in freedom time. geraldo, bring us to speed. they are at dinner and what is the mood outside. everybody is milling about and waiting. >> it is extremely tense, harris. whether they are supporters of george zimmerman, supporters of the trayvon martin family, on pins and needles as the progress of the jury and people guessing and trying to read tea leaves. the fact that they are asking about manslaughter, they have

rejected murder two, i don't think there is a chance on god's green earth that george zimmerman could be convicted of murder in the second-degree. they are now examining manslaughter and everybody in the crowd outside wondering what specifically they want to know about manslaughter? i believe and again, i don't pretend to any special knowledge that the previous guest foif- one for acquittal. i don't know that and i can't share that, i can't confirm that information. i don't. i believe what they have to ask about and what they are curious about is something that all of the lawyers are curious in the manslaughter charge is whether or not self defense will a mri. did he use it in the same affirmative way and i believe successfully hassoused it in terms of the murder two rap?

i think they are examining and doing the a natome of the manslaughter stat out and will come back with questions and after dinner debate and ponder their verdict. >> i am going to go to a commercial break. stick around. we'll be right back. i want to treat mo dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, to policies come with new car replacement

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>> we are awaiting the verdict. we have details about the dinner, they are in fact allowed to talk about the trial if they choose to do. that the judge did not instructed them to deliberate. but the deputy pio public information officer said they are not expected to pause during dinner. and so there could be deliberating going on as we speak. the verdict could come at any

moment. we want to press. that a question was asked of the judge and she shot back on the manslaughter question what exactly do you want to know. they could potentially talking about this case. that is co to know. a verdict could happen in any moment. geral geral geraldo rivero. there is a possibility of a hung jury? >> it is rare it hang up. harris, i know you have a very short time. there are no winners regardless of the verdict. if george zimmerman is convicted, you know, all well and good, but it is a tragedy. he did not set out that night to a teenager who would have hp" a long life and it would have been wonderful hopefully.

there are no winners or losers and the tragedy of the nation divided in racial lines. i believe zimmerman will be a quoited. but there are no winners, and only losers. >> i will not miss him and you shouldn't either. and we'll bring you the latest developments from sanford and this is ticking along tonight. i want to get my final thoughts with the guests on set. we'll be right back. fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

>> my first question to mercedes and our previous guest frank ta ffy hadded in inform n. >> impossible. it is impossible to know. and there is no consoefable way they are going to a upping jury. >> there is no way. he's make tupping i don't know if it is for attention. >> final thoughts on the case. >> they are focusing on manslaughter and they will decide the case.

>> i believe it is compromise and manslaughter conviction. >> you guys thank you for being here. that's how fox reports. i am harris falker, huckabee is live tonight and our continuing coverage of the george zimmerman watch. >> this is a special edition of huckabee. we are live in the fox news channel and new york. and you are watching and you know there are major developments in florida in the trial of george zimmerman. we'll keep you up-to-date and throughout the hour, not only discuss what is going on, and if anything brakes you will hear it first on the fox news channel. we'll go to phil keating who is covering the trial and outside oq courthouse right now. phil, bring us up-to-date where we are this minute? >> head loin right now. jury of six women are considering, convicting george