with them, buy nike, up 25% in a year. >> i don't know what it was, but there was a study this week that chocolate is good for your brain, hershey's up 20% in the year. >> i'm the healthiest person in the world. >> you're 98 pounds. >> equally sweet. well, you don't believe the diagnosis over these rising health care costs, it's time for a dose of reality my friends. hello, everyone, happy to have you. somebody, everybody call a doctor. several states already feeling sick expecting premiums to rise along with the rollout of the health care law. now the white house is telling them to take a chill pill, that the costs won't be going up as much as they say. what about how much those prices have already risen? premiums for families on average up around $2,000. and that is just since the health care law became law. so it seems like those price spikes are already here. we can debate.

all right, charles, no debating where they've come from and they've already moved up markedly. what do you make of them? >> listen, we're on the cusp of a world of hurt. there are too many stories out there from all parts of the country, premiums going through the roof, we've already become part-time nation, small businesses of hunkering down. and every single day, by the lls thing together. we're hearing more. $20 this, and $90 this. it's going to be an unmitigated nightmare and it's already begun. >> ben stein, what do you think of what you've seen thus far? >> i'm horrified. in california, insurance premiums are skyrocketing. some of the big insurers saying they're going to leave the state altogether. when the obama administration said we're going to make sure you have to include people with preexisting conditions, that guaranteed a gigantic increase in premiums for everyone else.

this is a nightmare, it's going to fall off the tracks and crash. >> julie, i'm looking at this and thinking, you know, you didn't have to be a rocket scientist, or for that matter, figured early on the guaranteeing coverage of preexisting conditions of having kids on your policy until they're 80 or something like that was going to result in higher premiums. so why this shock at this response? >> well, first and foremost, look at the statistics, premiums have actually been going up at the slowest rate in decades this past year, that's one. two, if you live in places like new york state and california for that matter, premiums are set to fall by over 50% in new york city next year after obama care goes into effect. >> you honestly believe -- premiums are going to fall. >> places like new york state? for places like -- >> what did she make up, dan? what did she make up? >> read the "new york times." premiums may go down by 50%. >> okay. okay. if it's in the "new york times." >> oh, i forgot, liberal media.

>> the made up part, cut in half by next year? >> that is no data for that. it's a claim by the obama administration. they claimed they were going to go between 2010 and 2012. >> false, because new york state already has the conditions that obama care imposes on you. secon second, people have to buy -- >> the administration was upset about all of the republican health conditioners who were saying the prices were going to double. to be fair, they're getting annoyed about that. i'm going to be fair and balanced and not venture into your guess. but i will ask you this, is it any mystery that average folks when told about this health care law hate it? they don't like the fact that their premiums have risen and they fear for how much more they're going to pay? >> there's no doubt about that whatsoever. the fact that you are seeing employers react by limiting the

number of full-time workers that they have. what you're seeing right now in the retail and restaurant sectors, that's having a direct impact. not even on people's health care premiums. and because of the way the laws are written, you have to take all as the insurance companies do. benefits have to be provided. younger people don't have choices and premiums in particular for them could double or triple because they're going to still bear the burden of insuring those who have health problems, period. >> but -- >> yes, but when did you join? when did you come here? >> four years ago, five years ago. >> prior to the health care law coming into effect. i remember like yesterday you and i talking about the health care law. but one of the things we covered and we were living down in washington, the argument was that things won't go up that much. >> right. >> now knowing the basis -- >> and there would be a net savings. >> and by the way, that's how they sold it.

>> i'm not going to get into the future of whether that might materialize because hope springs eternal. there was no way an objective observer could not see that the price hikes coming. >> right. and there's no way you could rationally predict the net savings. and i think ben would back this. i know he spoke on this in the past. when you look at the cbo report on it, there were so many bells and whistles that had to happen to get the net savings they were saying, that they were predicting that it was almost impossible. any sort of other condition could hit the economy that would prevent those net savings. and i will tell you this, my brother's a doctor, the big fear -- >> what kind of doctor. >> emergency room doctor. >> really? >> yeah. >> the big fear. i'm the dumb one. but anyway, the big fear, they don't know if they have to ration the health care. >> that's another jump and another leap. but on to how much it costs this far. the cost of health care is -- keeping premiums out of it -- is actually stable.

and to julie's point, the most stable it's been in decades. do you see that continuing or once everybody's onboard, it accelerates. >> i don't see how you add 30 million people into the mix and have a limited amount of doctors and see prices roll back. >> unless you ration. >> well, either with dramatic rationing, it'll be a lot more expensive. and people should realize, these penalties, they get bigger and larger, so the first year if you're an individual and don't get coverage, it's $90, the next year is $200. and the next year it's $600. >> and the next year they shoot you. and you say thank you. >> it's just the law of supply and demand. if you have a lot more demand for health care and a stable static supply of doctors, those doctors in particular, the really good ones will be able to charge a great deal more and probably will stop accepting insurance. that's one thing. you have a doctor and your cost to him will go up. >> ben stein, isn't the issue,

as well, that you've got to get a lot of those young people to sign up. if they don't sign up, then this equation sort of dissolves. >> well, what you need to do is get a lot of young healthy people who have no money to sign up and make sure those cuts in medicare payments go into effect. and by the way, i've just remembered the article i believe our colleague was referring to which is says that the rate of increase is going to slow down. it's not -- it's not that the premiums are going to fall. the rate of increase is not going to be as high. but if you really believe -- if you really believe that the premiums are going to fall by 50% next year in new york city, i have a big bridge in new york city i would like to sell you. >> which one is it? >> the one -- >> could i ask you this, though -- the argument that i've heard in support of health care laws, just you wait. once everything comes into place, once the young do sign up, whether by force or some other, you know, application from government, that everything

will settle down, that the combined costs and efficiencies will be there. i've heard that with so many other government programs that i'm reminded of how often hopes are dashed. >> here's the thing. i hate to break it to all of us. by the way, all of us who have insurance before obama care were paying about $2,200 per family to cover those who don't have insurance. if you don't think it's costing us now, i have a bridge to sell you in california then. >> which bridge? >> the golden gate, it's only really the one i know. that's the problem. the problem is we're already paying for these people not being insured. we think we're not paying for it? of course we are. and they're getting a free ride. and by the way, every time they get sick and go to the emergency room, that's 20 times more expensive than if they were to -- >> we've upended it for 90 plus percent of americans was working just fine. now the 10% supposedly weren't covered who now even with this don't want to be -- >> and we're socializing 20% of the economy.

do you think it's going to happen? >> i just wonder. >> do you think what's going to happen? >> obama care in the end. i don't think they can roll out the whole thing. there's too many problems. >> well, it's left the station. >> good luck enrolling all of those young people who we need to sign up for this and pay for health care. they're going to be like following -- >> if you don't get them, how do you pay? >> following around in a vw microbus. good luck getting them to sign up for health care. >> your personal interests have nothing to do with this very important scientific debate. all right. when we come back, four more cities go bust like detroit, is it time to take on pensions like the private sector is doing right now. but first, stop the presses, the billionaire founder of amazon is buying a big newspaper. why another billionaire ventured into the exact same business is saying he has no idea what he's getting into. daily specials. saturday, the commander hub style blind and the big game stealth deluxe ladder stand are under $80 each.

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headquarters, i'm jamie colby. we have new video to show you of the aftermath of surging floods slamming central colorado. police reporting at least three people injured. and now they're trying to confirm whether another person is missing. they had heavy rains and sent fast-moving water gushing down streets last night trapping dozens of drivers, even washing away a house and triggering mud slides. u.s. law enforcement expressing outrage as mexico releases a drug lord convicted of killing an american. raphael quinterro after being found guilty of kidnapping and murdering a u.s. dea agent in 1985. the justice department calling the move deeply troubling. a u.s. association of former narcotics agents blaming mexican corruption for the release. guys, we've got to fix things up, we're losing money

fast. what is the difference between selling those guys and journalist guys? >> the journalist guys thing they're doing journalist work. that's a different standard than where everybody is economically tied together. they don't -- >> did they think -- >> did you think they were stupid, arrogant? >> oh, arrogant is a much better word. the difference between, say, newspaper people and academics is very small. and they all run in the same scenario of thinking that they're doing things very educated, done very well academically. >> how many business courses? >> not too many. i don't know of any. because based on my experience, they had a lot of trouble adding and subjecting. >> not a happy newspaper owner. giving -- well, sam zell with a major warning for jeff bezos who bought "washington post" for $250,000. he says you have no idea what

you're getting into it. >> i'm hanging out with academics and what is he talking about? >> he's talking -- >> what he's saying is when he tried to cut costs at the "tribune" and "l.a. times," it was like talking to a brick wall. >> i don't hang out with academics and drink tea and -- >> yes, you do. >> listen, newspapers are a horrible business. that's the bottom line. it is a very tough business. you know, there are costs for printing. this is the worst business in the world. and, you know, and here's the problem, the online model doesn't work really as a pay model. >> back to journalists, though, i think what he was saying is jeff bezos might think he owns "the post," but, in fact, journalists who have to make cuts or adjustments never will so they effectively own him. what did you make of it? >> i -- well -- i was a print journalist. i was a print journalist, i never worked for a newspaper.

but there are a lot of journalists that as a cocktail i would never want to drink. it's bitter and unappetizing. they're a mix of arrogance and insecurity. and a lot of them are like that but then there's so many more who are go getters, who will go after the story, who can take great pride in just a terrific turn of phrase. and they want to produce original journaljournalism. >> do you think most are arrogant or just the minority? >> i think the minority are arrogant but they get the most press and attention because they're arrogant and go for it. and they get their name out there. >> the arrogant guys are good on tv. >> dr. payne? >> i think the problem is sort of -- we know the technology part of it that's hurting it. but i also think that the mainstream media shifted so far left, i think they put themselves in a real awkward box. it's not surprising, bezos is overpaid four times for "the

post." that national left leaning radio thing they tried, a lot of money pumped in, failed. you know, i think if there was a more cohesive product they put out there, fair and balanced for lack of a better phrase, maybe some of them would do well. and you said it, some of these guys believe and that's what sam zellwas saying, they don't believe there's cost underneath. >> i didn't understand. >> just fire them. >> but ben, i guess what i'm asking you is what does it mean for anyone who tries to fix the print medium and either tries to migrate to the online world as bezos will try to do with the post. it's an uphill battle, the workforce you're trying to take with you. is it with you? >> well, here's what i think is the most interesting thing here. the hand of warren buffett has got to be in there somewhere. buffett is a great, great pal of jeff bezos.

buffett told me he thinks jeff bezos is one of the most brilliant men in the world. also a great pal of the graham family. he had to do something with this deal. if he thinks there's money to be made there. >> he already made it. >> but he -- but he also still owns that big newspaper fairly big newspaper in buffalo and he says he's very happy with it and he'd like to buy more newspapers. but maybe there's something going on there we don't know. >> i tell you, i worked at the "washington post" company, worked at "newsweek," i spoke with warren buffett, i don't believe he thinks there's money there. i think he thinks this is the best way to stay -- >> i'm not soothsayer for the industry, but i've noticed those are media outlets that try balance, try fairness. the circulation is up, the online product is improving and also getting more interested takers or fox, of course, which is a multibillion dollar

institution. there's money to be made in it. >> well, look, "washington post" is a different model than it will "wall street journal." maybe that's the difference. maybe rupert murdoch has figured out how to monetize this. >> still can't make money. >> would you give this dog a bone? that would be me and my bone here and say there might be money to be made. not always being left wing balancing it out. >> i think there's money to be made if you're doing good journalism. and unfortunately, i think nobody's figured out how to monetize that these days. >> you're saying no? >> i'm saying, listen, i'm saying there's properties like "the new york post" that aren't making money -- see -- >> it's tattooed on my shoulder, i'm just not showing you. meanwhile, a short circuit for the green agenda. ford can't make enough of its best selling and i might point out gas-loving pickup trucks. we report, you drive.

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♪ ♪ >> neil: well, have a volt jolt to gas guzzleer, putting the pedal to the metal. g.m. slashing prices on the volt by $5,000. sales of the plug-in down last month. this comes as ford ramps up production of the best-selling f-150 pickup. 24 hours a day now.

ben stein, what are we to make of that? >> the whole idea there is something for nothing, no bad emissions vehicle is going to always be nonsense. it's an electric car, they have to get electricity from somewhere. they have to burn coal, burn gas, they have to have nuclear power. the idea of something for nothing is not working as usual. >> neil: i don't like the notion that the hybrids are not hot or they're not intriguing and alluring and worth their money. but just not this one. the issue with this one, julie, and a lot of plug-ins, they have proven thus far to be a waste of time, waste of effort and waste of money. what say you? >> did you see what tesla is doing today? >> neil: model standard with the 100,000 plus cars that goes a foot a gallon? >> look at what the market is doing with tesla. crazy profits -- >> neil: could we go back to this car for the masss? >> you know -- >> neil: the mass disaster. >> hopefully tesla for the masses, too. >> neil: $100,000 a pop,

safe to say no. >> they'll make a few more. bring the price down a little bit. look, americans love their big cars. hoping one day they will drive their big cars that get powered by renewable energy. it it doesn't have to be gas. i could be something else. >> americans like cars that run on gasoline because it gets you there and efficiently. >> they don't hate electric cars. sales of the volt are up year to date. 9% from a year ago. they're cutting the price on the volt because chevy is coming out with a cadillac on the same technology. >> neil: digging in deeper? >> it's not a disaster. >> neil: you like hybrids to the effect, all the hybrids that are fuel-efficient. t. rowe price is a beautiful car. what does it get? 60 miles a gallon? isn't that a feature? >> you bridge the future. the hybrids for a long time and ultimately electronic cars, electric cars. >> it taint volt. >> i don't understand why they sell stuff that is not --

>> i think general motors is taking marching orders from the white house. i don't think they would be this deep in to it if it wasn't. >> there is no business reason to sell something that is not a disaster. >> neil says try everything. that is what all the car companies are doing. >> fair enough. >> why do they waste money on -- >> neil: fair enough. let the market decide. >> but it's not a disaster. >> neil: thank charlie and daigen and julie. up next, despite the choppy week for stocks, it's been a red hot year. but there are still bargains to be found. we'll find out which ones. llion are tweeting. and 900 million dollars are changing hands online. that's why hp built a new kind of server. one that's 80% smaller. uses 89% less energy. and costs 77% less. it's called hp moonshot. and it's giving the internet the room it needs to grow. this&is gonna be big. hp moonshot.

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>> neil: well, the markets may be up this year, but the bar gone hunters have stocks on sale for you. charles, what do you have? >> ben called it. coal. coal is so beaten down, there is a war against it, but cliff natural resources i think it goes higher. >> neil: ben, what are you doing these days? >> i like rqi. a good long-term bet.

>> neil: do you like coal? >> i love coal. >> neil: who doesn't? "cost of freedom" continues. you're watching fox. keep watching. we will not stop watching out for you. ♪ ♪ >> david: well, first detroit goes bust. will new york and chicago be next? the mayors of those two cities warning that their public pension costs are growing totally out of control, which is really what did in detroit. and many other cities are facing the same time bomb. is this proof it's time to scrap public pensions before they all go bust? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. welcome to "forbes on fox." let's go in focus with steve forbes, john candy, rich carlguard, elizabeth mc donald. should we scrap the public pensions? >> yes. get rid of them. what is public service? a sacrifice. it's supposed to be a