that kills 99.9% of bacteria. people sure loved having something that smelled as great as it cleaned. that's why when it comes to clean, there's only one mr. thank you so much. have a great night. >> ♪ ♪ anything you can do, i can do better ♪ ♪ john: women get paid less than men. should government f >> should government force it closed? government tries to force equality in sports. >> mac was yanked out from warner when the university cut the wrestling program. >> is forcing equality fair? aren't there differences between boys and girls? >> pain in the butt. >> the battle of the sexes. >> had enough? that's our show tonight.

(applause) >> men do get paid more than women, significantly more. in america today on average for every buck a man makes women earn just $0.77. >> there's one thing that just about every single job in america has in common, the dudes get paid more for doing it. >> no, i shouldn't say that. it's not fair if we dudes get paid more for doing the same job. i had a daughter i want her to be paid what she is worth. but i wonder, do we do the same jobs? are women really discriminated against? tonight we separated the studio audience men on this side women over here and as we came in we

asked the people with jobs to anonymously write down how much money they earn. then we averaged the salary. for the women the average turned out to be 66,000. for the men 79,000. that means for every dollar the men make the women only made $0.83. that is more than the national average of $0.77. so good for you. the difference ticked people off it was a campaign issue last election. >> women being paid $0.77 on the dollar for doing the same work as men isn't just unfair it hurts families. >> $1 verses $0.77, what horrible discrimination saws the author of cult of power, sex discrimination in corporate america. martha this is because of

discrimination? >> not all of it. but a good portion of it is. absolutely because of discrimination. >> why would employers all discrimina discriminate? they are all sexist? >> some don't pay enough attention to who they are paying what. they don't realize that maybe front linemanagement is making decisions that are not in the best interest of women. some of them think they can get away with it and th goes back to the early 20th century when people paid women less because they were women and said so out lewd. >> you are saying that is 100 years ago. are you saying that is still going on today? >> i am saying we still live in the legacy of it absolutely. otherwise why would take two jobs like school cafeteria worker and school custodian. why would those not be paid the

same because they are the same skill level, same entry level type of job yet the custodians make more because they are predominantly male, the cafeteria ladies are just that predominantly female and that job pays less. the same is true for parole officers and social workers. essentially the same kind of work. parole officers make more money because they are predominantly male. >> warren farrell wasn't agreeing with what she says. here's a picture of him with gloria stein numb who joined feminist protests he was on the board or now, national organization for women. he dug deeper and changed his mind. he wrote why men earn more the startling truth mind the gpay gaff and what women can do about

it. you learned it wasn't discrimination? >> the take was not about men and women it's about mothers and sfrs. there are 25 different work life choices men and women make. every single one of men's choices lead to men on average earning more money every single one of women's choices lead them to having a more balanced life which usually ends up being a happier life. >> you said women are smarter than men. >> women are much smarter than men. we knew that. >> because the man is more willing to travel have a more dangerous job sashing fys family life and well grounded well rounded. >> people pay for what they need. men go into the hazardous jobs that are likely to pay more given the amount of education they have. more more likely to work extra weekend. >> martha, what do you say about that? >> i think mr. farrell's data are bogus. everybody agrees that even in

female dock nated jobs like nursing and teaching men make more. i just read a study before i came on the air by the american bar association partners and law firms there is a huge gender pay gap. >> warren, the nurses are getting ripped off. >> nurses might be but it helps to know that a nurse anesthetist earns 25,000 to 250,000 a year. if you are a nurse you earn much less than that. let's teach our daughters the specializations they can enter where they can out earn men rather than -- >> are you saying the girls are dumb and they could make more money and they foolishly choose art history not knowing it will pay less? >> if they are taught only about discrimination they are not taught about how unlikely they are to get a job with french literature and art history major and they only care about fulfillment we have to disclose our daughters at son's tradeoff.

if you want fulfillment get fulfillment. women business owners who have mba's make only 49 percent of what male business owners make. >> sexism. >> we think it's sexism until you learn it's what they want. i want to be my own boss, i want to be close to home. >> martha, what about that? you women are smarter and make better life choices. you don't work yourselves to death. >> well, mr. farrell said motherhood is fun nished because that's the choice women make. well, he's got a point but he didn't tell us the other half. that is being a father and being married actually helps men in the workplace. it punishes women. we have a lot of data that shows that the employer looks at that women even if she is not married yet and thinks of her as a potential mother.

maybe i better not hire her, maybe i better not pay quite as much. certainly don't want to promote her she might get pregnant drop out of the work force. >> she might. is the employer foolish to worry about that? >> well, that's because the culture and our society punishes women for being mothers. there's no organized child care for example. >> when women make 100 or so thousand dollars a year they start asking a different set of questions. many women say what do i want out of my life? do i want to make 200,000 a year or do i want more personal time more time with my children? do i want more time at the gym, do i want more spiritual time? do i want more time with my spouse. women are more likely to say i want a balanced life. they don't go to the highest level because they are not stupid. >> you are saying they are making a choice. warren, thank you. martha, thank you. we won't solve this year. recently cheryl san berg a chief

operating officer of facebook got attention for saying things like this. >> a couple weeks ago on facebook we hosted a senior government official. there are these two women traveling with him who are pretty senior in their apart. i said sit at the table. sit at the table. they sat on the side of the room. >> feminists were angry about what she said. other things on the book the social justice based feminine movement at risk. the victims of men's corporations. they say sexist society holds women back not the way women act. but san burg's book did become a number one best seller? does she have a point? yes does sabrina schafer of independent women's forum. go take it away. >> i thought san burg offered a very thoughtful session of women

in the workplace. she did not offer public policy prescription she gave nuts and bolts suggestions for women who have high aspirations strong career path aspirations and here are real things you can do to better yourself. >> don't they take a seat at the table? >> they pick up on sensitive gender differences. men and women are different. more they can recognize and accept the differences the better they are. women don't negotiate their salaries. my brother told me he negotiated every salary he has. >> women are timed? >> not that women are timid. there may be ways we are not thinking about asserting ourselves in the workplace we could do more of. >> why were women on the left so angry about that? >> a lot of the battles they are fighting han won they are out

pacing men professionally. there's a big sigh really are we still having this conversation? >> you live longer than we do. you get all of the breaks. >> i agree with some of the feminists. i think sanburg is a little out of touch. here's why. i don't think most people want a family. only 23 percent of women say they would prefer to work full-time let alone live a ceo quality of life sha cheryl sanburg is living. as warren just suggested most women want some kind of balance in their life. >> they are making a choice. did you make a choice? are you earning less because you made a choice? major nods there. thank you sabrina. >> coming up, is it true that women can do anything that men can do?

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john:

>> as the battle of the sexes continues let's talk sports. how many of you love sports? slightly more men. how many of you played a support this month? hands up. all right. more guys. i think that's typical. when it comes to sports men and women i think are different. not all of you, but most of you. this to me is common sense. but to say that is not politically correct. it is utterly unacceptable in washington, d.c. where politicians passed a law called 509 which says no person can on the basis of sex be subjected to discrimination under any education program. that sounds good. discrimination is something we like. our vice president says title 9

changed civilization. empower. empower. women. >> okay. well shawn lata is former president of the national association for girls and women in sports. tight title line change civilization? >> yes, i would agree. >> wasn't civilization already changing? >> yes. maybe i would rephrase it and say it had a huge impact on society today. >> you were an athlete as a child. you wanted to play soccer there were no girl's teams you ended up on the boy's team the only girl. >> right. >> by college age at penn state there were some girls teams. >> there were some women teams but the team i played on the soccer team was still club status. we wanted to be a varsity team and get the recognition and

support, and at the time penn state didn't sport soccer so we filed a title 9 complaint so we would have equal opportunity. >> i would argue people were just waking up to what women could do at the time and this would have happened anyway if women wanted to play sports universities who wanted the customers would have accommodated. >> it would have happened very, very, very slowly. >> why wouldn't the university say we have got to get these women. >> equal opportunity in activities in athletics. it costs muvenlt title 9 really forced educational institutions to make sure that both sons and daughters have equal opportunity. >> equal opportunity would suggest women want to play sports just as much as men. you say they do? you do? >> i do. >> you do.

>> button average women often have other interests. little girls talk and men want to run around and smash into each other. aren't we different? >> i think we each have uniqueness. i think title 9 really pushes the issue that regardless if it's athletics or drama if it's the band that whether you are a man or a women you should have the opportunity to participate in that activity. >> i keep hearing about unhappy news for boys and about title 9 leading colleges to eliminate some men's sports. >> it was yanked out of under water when they cut the wrestling program under title 9. >> it is one of ten things the school is cutting. >> indoor track is the most dropped men's team. isn't this sort of bad for the guys? >> unfortunately the powers to

be, athletic director presidents have chosen to make the decision to cut men's so-called minor sports because through isn't endless money. cutting some of those minor men's sports colleges and universities have some money they can support women's athletics. >> division 1 gymnastics fell from 117 in the 80s to 17 today. this is should there be lawsuits that say that yes equal numbers in dance and cheerleading and the yearbook more girls like to do that. we are different. >> i think that's debatable. >> academic clubs, voe kwagsn-- vocational clubs. cheerleading 19 percent verses 8 percent. music programs 26 percent verses

16 percent. different interests. >> again, that has been debated. how do you determine interests. >> if had to be forced i would think the culture just changed when i was a kid my school was all men. we complained and princeton voluntarily admitted women. culture was changing. once it was taboo for women to smoke wear trousers in public. to go to a bar alone. culture changes. we don't need your stupid law. >> we do. we need it. we need the law. >> we need the law. we would have been waiting of years. we would have been waiting forever. >> hundreds of years? >> yeah, we would still be -- caveman and cave women days if we didn't push the issue. a lot of times what happens is a

law has to pass and social acceptance, social more rays don't change for quite a while after the law is passed. >> stick around we will have a chance to take questions from the audience next as we consider the battle of the sexes. there's something in boys and girls brains make them do things like this? >> the girl cares more about playing with each other, talking, cooperating. >> you be the princess. ♪ how do you do a summer clearance event the dodge way?

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aren't enough to lower cholesterol i prescribe crestor. [ female announr ] crestor is not right for everyone. like people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant or may become pregnant. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking. call your doctor right away if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired, have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of rare but serious side effects. is your cholesterol at goal? ask your doctor about crestor. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. john: are >> are there significant biological differences between men and women outside of sex organs that is. when i was in college i was taught it's unacceptable to say that. feminist professors taught me men and women are bile logically

the same it is only because of sexist society parents and piers encouraging boys to play with guns girls to play with dolls that causes boys and girls to behave differently. if we just stop doing that there would still be equal numbers of female race car drivers and male ballet dancers. i believed that, i really did, until i had children and look up and there's a report on abc news that got me into trouble. i said look boys and girls are just not the same. >> we treated them the same. but they were just so different. i don't just mean my kids. you see it in their friends, too. the girls were, well, more civilized. they would look you in the eye, talk to you. they cared about your feelings. the boys... the boys wanted to go to war. >> bang, bang, bang.

>> the girls played more about playing with each other, talking, cooperating. >> you will be the princess. >> there were plenty of exceptions but the pattern was clear no matter how sex neutral we parents try to be it seemed obvious to see boys and girls instincts are somehow different. the author of "the power of the female brain" agrees with that. that's neuroscientist dr. dan um haman. you conducted the biggest brain study ever done, 46,000 brain scans and found what? >> female brains were dramatically more active in about 85 percent of the brain. women are wired for leadership. if you look at the homes and look at organizations like churches, they are often the leaders. they are clearly the health leaders. if it wasn't for this thing

called children that de rail their careers they would really make great ceo's. women in our studies and also i point this out in the book, they are better with things like empathy, intuition, collaboration, self control. women go to jail 14 times less than males and what many people wouldn't think of as a strength is they have appropriate worry. the don't worry be happy people more often men on motorcycles die the earl list from accidents or preventable illnesses. >> this is wired into our brains this is not about parenting? >> it is wired into your brain. when little boys are exposed to testosterone and girls aren't, if there is reshaping or

remodeling that happens and it happens very early inside your mother's bomb. >> -- womb. >> at conception we start with the same number of cells except the y chromosome that has hormones added to the cells and this makes men's brains different. >> right. so whether you have the y chromosome or not triggers testosterone or not nearly as much the level of testosterone you have in utero begins to shape your brain in a certain way. >> and changes you forever? >> it certainly makes a big difference. what is interesting is that if women take testosterone and that is happening more and more, if they take too much they begin to think like a guy. they always think about sex they have less empathy and it can cause some trouble.

>> they ride motorcycles. >> i want to poll my audience here. how many of you have a good sense of direction? more guys i am seeing raising their hands than women. that's my experience. look at this experiment. this first one was done at the university of rochester. >> students are blindfolded and walked through a maze of tunnels that run under the campus. they guide them and tap them on the shoulder so they don't run into anybody. when a woman is asked where a college building is they are not so sure. men however retained a sense of what direction they moved. >> go through the next doors take a left and a right and a left. >> in another experiment in new york university in toronto students were asked to wait in a

cluttered room while an experimenter got something ready. what the student didn't know is waiting was the whole experiment. they were asked this. >> tell me every object in that room that you remember. >> women give answers like this. on the right-hand side of the desk was a briefcase with your initials at the top there was a tuke a mitt and i am 40 button on it. in the middle new york university envelopes a thing of cl clearsil. >> the women would go on and on. the men would say things like i don't know there was some stuff. so doctor, this is a biological difference? >> oh, no question. the memory centers of the brain the campus deep in the brain significantly more active in women than in men which is why she remembers your first kiss

and every time your mother was rude to her. when women get an emotional memory they have trouble letting it go. often remember things you wish they would have forgotten. >> i remember my first kiss. it remind me of what happened to laurence summers president of harvard where he dared say maybe just maybe a reason that women don't dominate the way men do in the sciences might be biological. he got drummed out of harvard just for saying that. >> he did but i think it was the wrong message that they weren't perhaps as good or as confident. their brains in that particular area of the brain are just as strong.

they are more biassed to relationship issues. they are more likely to go into professions where they want to interact with people. >> interesting. thank you doctor. >> when we return how young reporter john stossel was totally clueless in general at co ed schools the boys get the better deal. >> the boys say what they think and if they are wrong they don't care. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing.

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metacil. what areow! that hurt!k there? no, no, no, no. you can't go to school like this, c'mon. don't do it! no! (mom vo) you never know what life's gonna throw at you. if i gotta wear clothes, you gotta wear clothes. (mom vo) that's why i got a subaru. i just pulled up. he did what now? no he's never done that before! oh really? i might have some clothes in the car. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. john: as our battle of the sexes continue, let's focus on >> let's focus on school. how many of you like school? i see more hands on the women's

side and that was my experience. i hated school. when my kids were born the message was school is unfair to girls. parents should consider all girl's schools because boys are so loud and dominant in classrooms. that is what i found when i read a book to a class of first graders. >> look what happened. this boy comes from the back of the class. but, to make a point. soon there are three boys in my face commenting on the book. the girls stay seated. >> who gets the most attention in class, boys or girls? >> boys. >> why boys? >> because they talk more than the girls. the girls don't really get called on too much. >> they have so muchergy. they are never actually that

quiet. >> this girl had a theory as to why boys are quicker to raise their hand. >> the boys very loudly say what they think and if they are wrong they don't care. >> now i assumed that she was right because that happens to be my daughter who said that. the prevailing theory at the time was that because a boy's aggressiveness co ed schools were unfair to girls who were overwhelmed the boys. maybe things have changed because today many educators say it is the boys that get -- the author of "boys adrift" which say today schools are toxic to boys. your book says schools take boy's motivation away. >> boys at 7, 8 years of age i hate school it's so stupid. i will ask them why do you say that? they say well we were throwing

snowballs or we got in trouble. they said we could draw anything in art i drew a picture of a sword i got in trouble. we could write a story about whatever we want. i got in trouble. >> he got in trouble for drawing a sword? >> in america public schools today it is common for boys -- many schools have zero tolerance policy not only can you not bring a plastic replica of a gun. >> for good reason to reduce violence. >> an assumption which is not based in evidence. the notion is if you don't allow boys to draw a sword they will become gentle fair res who want to fautalk about their feels. it's not true. what they do instead is -- i was referring to disney's fair res as in tink tinkerbell. they will chew their bread into a pistol. a boy chewed his piece of bread

into the shape of a pistol and s he gets suspended for it. >> when you were in school you won a creative writing award. >> for writing a story in which eastern refugees try to escape western germany and one of them got his legs blown off in a minefield and died. and then i visited a school very recently where in english the assignment was to write a story about whatever you want he wrote a story about stal ingrad winter 1942 from the perspective of a russian soldier on patrol and he's ambushed by a german and fires his rifles at point blank range and describes what happens how the head explodes and he was suspended from school. boys doing things they have always done throwing snowballs at one another drawing pictures of a weapon writing stories about amputation and death. boys are doing things boys have

always done now gets you in trouble. that's why so many boys say schools is for girl. the boy who writes about combat gets in trouble instead of getting an award as i did he gets suspended from school. when i went to high school in ohio 30 some years ago the kids earning the honors at the honors awards the valedictorian the editor of the school newspaper the editor of the yearbook they were all boys. now they are all girls. we didn't go to 50/50 we swung the other day. look at debate team. debate team used to be all boys. now it's all girls. when did boys decide arguing is not something boys did. >> you grew up in a sexist world. it is now equal and the girls are now smarter. >> the boys decided being a debate club is uncool because it is aligned with the academic objectives of the school. what is cool for boys today is getting the next level in call of duty in a world of war craft and the schools don't understand us. they don't understand telling

boys i don't want to read the story you want to write. i don't want to read the story you want to write. i want you to write about your feelings. i want you to write a story about how you would feel if you weren't invited to the party. what happens? does the boy say instead of writing about the battle of stal ingrad i am going to write a story of how i would feel if i wasn't invited to the party. the boy says i am not going to do that. school sucks. i am going to go home and play call of duty. >> these are touchy issues and our audience would like to question you and our other guests. we will confront some myths about gender, are women worse drivers and are men more likely to cheat? that's coming up. [ male announcer ] what's important to you?

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>> we are back with your questions for my guests, he says boys are cheated by american schools. shawn ladda who says we need government to force schools to provide equal sports for girls and sabrina schafer who runs the independent women's forum. from my facebook page why has no one talked about the fact that we have two physical standard between men and women in the military and law enforcement or fire departments for that

matter. are we equal or not? >> we do have different standards and that's really biological. if we looked at physiological differences like hormones men have more testosterone so they have a greater capacity of muscle mass and to be stronger. >> shouldn't men have an advantage in fire departments and combat? >> the average man. but there are women who have greater strength than some men. >> why not have one test and those women who have equal or greater strength they get in. women get to do fewer pushups and run the mile more slowly why is that fair? >> they have other skills as well that can be beneficial to the fire department. >> let's go to the audience. >> in terms of business and technology much of the innovation we see coming out of the fields seems to come from men even though women are graduating college in greater numbers. my question is when -- >> and getting master's degrees.

>> what do you think of the long-term effects of this? what do you think the effects will be on the economy. >> you are raising a really interesting question which is what drives innovation. steve jobs the greatest innovate tore of our generation was a college dropout. bill gates was a college dropout. academic achievement measured college degrees does not reliebly correlate with innovation. >> we men are more innovative. >> we have to look at where women are placing their efforts. those more women getting bachelors degrees masters and ph.d.'s. they are not in fields that men do. computer signs we may see tangible results women getting ph.d.'s in english you may not see the same thing. we are seeing a lot of women going into the tech firms the cheryl sanders and virginia ramadi and microsoft just hired another -- >> but they are the exception. >> right, but they are influencing this innovation.

>> who has the mic over here. >> you said title 9 you felt was necessary beyond the social exchange -- changes if it wasn't for that we would still be in the stone ages. i was just wondering how you would explain a relatively new support such as mixed martial arts and cage fighting it has barely been around for 20-years already there's females and a number of organizations without any law that requires them to do that. how did that come about without a basic societal change? >> title 9 waudz passed in 1972. over 40 years now that title 9 has impacted social beliefs. so now -- >> so the law changed people's mad tudz? >> it opened the door for women to have opportunities. >> would you say it is still necessary? or would you say the change has been accomplished? >> yeah, get rid of it. >> absolutely not. because even so the national

women's law center estimates at least 70 percent of colleges and universities are still not in compliance with title 9. >> the boys want to play sports. if i throw the football with these guys i know that will happen. if i throw it to the girls, okay -- >> thank you leonard, shawn, sabrina. coming up women drivers and philandering men is what people say about them, true? >> we get the myth. test [ male announcer ] the wind's constant force should have disrupted man. instead, man raised a sail. and made "farther" his battle cry. the new ram 1500 -- motor trend's 2013 truck of the year -- the most fuel-efficient half-ton truck on the road --

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john: finally, a couple of myths about >> a couple myths about differences between the sexes. is it true women are bad drivers? at least worse than men. how many of you think raise your hands that women are worse drivers. >> i say with all of these myths there is some truth to it. >> this video which has been watched more than a million times illustrates what i think is true. women often just aren't very good at maneuvers a car. there are differences relating to depth perception but in this

parking lot a women tries to park again and again but she just cannot get into the parking space. finally a man gets out of his car switches places with the women driver and he is quickly able to park her car. then he gets back into his one comment on the web site said, women should be in the kitchen not at the steering wheel. but when it comes to bad driving what is the best measure parking? not really. driving without hitting things matters more and by that measure we men are much worse much more likely to crash the car. >> this is a draft of the deadly car accident in 1975. the total has gone down. the clear difference between the two lines shows that men crash cars more often. as one research review put it men drive faster than women were more likely to speed, drive

drunk run stop signs and we crash twice as often as women do. in the u.s. men cause 71 percent of all deaths on the road. even went miles or driving hours were fabbing toured in men got in more accidents and pursuant more people. based on that you have to say women are better drivers. men are more likely to be unfaithful to cheat on their partners. so is that true? i will ask the audience again. how many of you have cheated on your spouse? all right you are not going to give me an honest answer. but anonymous surveys suggest that men are more likely to cheat. evolution may be the reason. thousands of years the women knew her children were more likely to survive if they found a man who would stay and help protect her and the kids. women who partnered with such

men were more likely to pass their genes on to future generations. by contrast men were more likely to pass on their genes if they had sex with lots of women and fathered lots of kids. today we are told women want a committed relationship and men want variety. >> i am deeply sorry i did not live up to what was expected of me. >> i did not have sexual relations with that women. >> are men more likely to cheat? a study found 19 perts of women and 23 percent of men reported cheating. men are more likely to cheat. the numbers are close cheating isn't a guy thing. on that note that's our show for tonight. more myths, often what we think we know is just not so. see you next week.

tonight on "huckabee" -- as democrats anoint hillary as the next queen, republicans battle in their version of the game of thrones. >> the gop of old has grown stale. >> this strain of libertarianism i think is a very dangerous thought. >> can the gop reunite to ever win the white house again? and remember the president's re-election message in 2012? >> al qaeda's on the path to defeat and bin laden's dead. >> but here's what he said earlier this week. >> al qaeda affiliates and like-minded extremists still threaten our homeland. >> which is it, mr. president? >> former cia