hey, flobot, great job. oops. [ powers down ] uh-oh, flobot is broken. the "name your price" tool, only from progressive. call or click today. this is a fox news alert. it is 1:00 a.m. tuesday october 1 here in the nation's capital. you're looking live on capitol hill. the federal government already has begun a partial shutdown. this came after the action, the back and forth, house republicans could not reach a deal with senate democrats and the president over a spending bill to fund the government past midnight. you're looking live on capitol hill because we expect the speaker of the house john boehner to come out and speak to reporters. we will go live there and you'll hear it here on fox news channel. and yes, we still are live. anticipate yes, it is 1:00 a.m. in the morning. mike emanuel is on capitol hill good morning again, mike.

>> they were saying they're going to try to negotiate a deal on a way forward. after a lot of name calling from senate democrats such as senate majority leader harry reid who suggested the ho us republicans were insane for try ing ing to r with obama care both parties seem to not be talking to one another. the democrats in the senate said they were not gong to accept it. so the two houses of congress

basically did not function together. there were not negotiations last minute to try to come together on a deal. and so bottom line, here we are and the question is how long a government shutdown will last. i had a veteran republican senator tell me that he expected it could go five days. i heard others say less. some suggesting perhaps more because both parties seem pretty dug in at this point. they'll be watching to see what the public's reaction is. >> there really wasn't a sense that speaker boehner and senate majority leader reid were ever going to get together, was there. was there ever a sense they were even close to a negotiation. >> they're talking over one another to try to sway public opinion in their direction. we've seen vice president biden talk to his former colleagues, mitch mcconnell, the republican

leader in the senate, president obama speak to the speaker of the house john boehner to try to work out a deal. and those types of last-minute talks did not come together this time. you had the president go into the white house briefing room and lecture lawmakers, you know, for holding up or threatening a government shutdown in this case. but no meaningful discussion. no come down to the white houhi closed doors. the question is, you know, who would have the final vote, if you will, to bring us to this point. >> any clue when we're going to hear from the speaker? what exactly he's going to lay out? >> no, i talked to some of his aides earlier in the evening, and they said this going to a conference thing is regular order. you know, the senator has an idea for a bill, the house has an idea for a bill. you put negotiators in a bill and try to hammer it out. the now the panelists have had their take on that step, but that's what the leadership team was saying.

this is what you do when you cannot reach an agreement. they seem to think it was a good idea overnight to try to meet and see if you could work out a deal. >> we'll head back when the speaker huds there. it does does not look like there's a lot of action right now. let's bring in our senior panel. steve, what can speaker boehner say and can he turn the tide of what has been an interesting night? >> i don't think he can turn the tide. what he can try to do is try to continue and convey the sense that the republican and the house have been working hard on this. there was a talk about how the senate took the day off and republicans worked over the weekend. there was talk about how the republicans were scrambling on

the house side and senators weren't doing anything at all. i think that's part of that broader campaign to send that message. do i think it's going to work? no, i don't think that's particularly an effective neszage. i think the key job that john boehner has right now is to move a fight that is now settled on the substance, it's nooufed beyond the defunding question to these two specific issues from the vehicle of the continuing rez lug to the vehicle of the debt ceiling. this is something that a senate majority leader harry reid already said. it will be rejected :30 tomorrow morning. he said it was some jerry rigged plan and didn't understand exactly what it was. it's not regular order. there was once a conference in 2007 or something on a cr. a cr is just a set bill where

he's going to continue to spend the same amount of money you've been spending. . it's not actually new legislation, new policy. so this is a way to buy more time. and at this point, members john boehner admitted he's not just willing to pass a cr and walk away. this is a face-saving measure. >> senator cornish from texas. >> speaker, instead of allowing all 435 members in the house of representatives to vote to keep the government open for business, he's once again pushing for a government shutdown. i think this is what they want. >> this again tells me that the president and harry reid want a government shutdown. they think they come out of this as a winner. >> so charles, you're saying in order to come out a winner, speaker boehner has to get off this quickly? >> yes. i think he's got to throw in the towel on the cr. look, they've been in retreat

now for a day. they've gone three times weakening at each step. the base wants to shut down the government to overturn obama care. >> there's more. would you like me to keep -- >> if you leave out all the expletives perhaps you'll be able to do it. >> have you ever heard of a french republican? >> apparently i am. >> you do speak french? >> i do. and i used to be a republican it turns out. he's a rino in name only. we've got to call ourselves h hippos. we are so far gone. who knows. with boehner coming out, there are two ways to script this. and one is to speak to charles. i mean, one is he can just say listen, you know what, we are going to the mat, we are going

to be boards. we know about these people who say this is not good political sdrat ji, but we stand with the base. we understand the passion against obamacare. and we will continue to fight. we move beyond the funding and we want to get back to the discussion of obama care. i would be surprise if he takes that second option. >> if i thought a government shut doup would stop obamacare, i would be all for it. but it can't be done. the house itself, the republican caucus has given up the idea of defunding and is speaking only about two provisions. and the point is if you want to win on that, and you can, you've got to do it on the debt

ceiling, you don't do it on the cr because you're going to lose as they're losing right now. >> chad is on the phone, just checking his watch. i guarantee he's doing what's called a 3:20 call. oh, he may have heard that i'm talking about him. and he's checking his watch. we don't know when boehner is coming. he's probably telling that to the entire bureau here. he does a lot of them throughout the day and he keep us updated on what's going on. he is really one of the best up there. >> oh, yes, he is. and he has been furiously reporting tonight. >> as soon as this vote series is done, we're not sure how many votes will be in this sequence.

so that's not that promising actuallier, for this live 1:00 a.m. show that we are in. when does "fox & friends" start? bottom line is we're wait thong vote series. eventually, they have to get to a place that is an exit ramp, right, steve? isn't there going to be something that says okay, we've dope our thing. let's fight on the debt ceiling. and when's the exit ramp? is it now, is it a couple of days from now? >> yeah, i would say we're already seeing people heading in that direction. and again, i want to be clear as somebody who thinks it's important to have obamacare as part of this fight. and important to fight, i do not view this as a surrender. i view this as a sort of natural next sdep when you understood that shutting the government down was not going to defund obama care.

it was never going to work that way. the reason they focused on defund in my view was to make sure it was part of the discussion. it's now part of a discussion, so you move on to the next step. we've seen, i think, three indications that this next step is coming. rand paul was for some shorter term continuing resolution that would allow these negotiations or nonnegotiations as the case may be, to have discussion about obamacare. the third came today when ted cruz was roved in a colloquy with diop cornan and he was asked what the house of representatives was doing.

he said i think this senate should come back immediately and pass the continuing resolution of the house, whatever the house passes. so ted cruz at that point signaled that he, too, was moving on from the defund, at least in some measure. now, his offense later put out a statement saying no, that's been misconstrued. he didn't mean to be seen as giving up the fight. but again, i don't think doing that would be giving up the fight. it would be sort of focusing, narrowing your argument and using a better vehicle to make it. >> okay. a couple more tweets. kim ellis write, i believe your panel has lost touch with the will of the people. this e-mail says you all are missing the pont. republicans forced the democrats to play their hand. democrats have been tricked into going all in on obama care. if obamacare is the train wreck everyonen't expects, democrats will own it lock, stock and barrel. >> but democrats have owned it from the day they passed it on a straight party line vote. there's never been a question

about ownership. the only question is who gets the fall for the shutdown of the government. and why are we stepping on the story of the disaster out opening up of obamacare, the historic day that juan has talked about. historic in ways that i think democrats would not want to remember. instead it will be remembered as the day of the shutdown. >> kraut hhammer says the shutdn shows that the republicans will fight. >> you saw the retreat hour by hour today of the house republicans. they understand this is, you know, how many time kus say it? they have touched the stove and the only question is, can you get out of the way and start over. or pivot, if you like, on grounds where you're a lot strnger, whistrng er, which is the debt limit. >> there's activity. we may be coming to the end of this vote series. we may get the speaker. chad has checked his watch a number of times and he's still on the phone.

so we are now two minutes, we're told in my ear, two minutes to the house speaker. you'll see that live here on fox. >> you know, brett, if the speaker finds a way out of this quickly and it is a short-term shutdown and they go on to an effective strategy for negotiating an extracting concessions on the debt ceiling, no one will remember the shutdown and it will be fine. the problem that we're seeing with the way that was handled by the house republicans is that they didn't have a strategy for that. and now with time running out with a deadline to increase the debt ceiling there's concern they need to move on to finding a strategy for the debt ceiling. steve actually tweeted a piece by the bush administration who wrote in "the washington post" about why you should be having the fight on the debt ceiling as charles recommends and not on the government shutdown. in which he said, you actually have to -- it matter whence we

take hostages if the other side is going to get something that they want or if you're going to inflict pain. the democrats have been perfectly fine with the shutdown. there's no extraction, there's no infliction of pain. the debt ceiling fight has become so much more important but they clearly have run out of time. i want to read one quote from someone talking tonight in the republican conference, one of the members about this face-saving. when you're in a bar fight, you have to win it. there's no other way out of the bar. we probably shouldn't have walked in to have a drink, but our leaders did. that's where we are. now we have to break chairs and bust balls overhead till someone wins or we get out alive. >> the house has made its position known very quickly. we believe we should fund the

government and there ought to be basic fairness for all americans under obamacare. the senate has continued to reject our offers. but under the constitution, there's a way to resolve this process, and that is to go to conference and talk through your differences. i would hope that the senate would accept our offer to go to conference and discuss this so we can resolve this for the american people. questions? >> are you going to vote an a bill of cr? >> let us go to conference and resolve our differences. >> you said later today, 800,000 workers will receive notices they're no longer needed on the job. what's your message to them and do you have a plan to restore back pay to them? >> the house has voted to keep the government open, but we also

want basic fairness for all americans under obamacare. >> what do you say to those workers? >> okay, we waited for that. that was not a lot for that statement saying the house as essentially voted to keep the open and the gop conference has voted to appoint conferees on this to negotiate with the senate. and that is not going to happen as far as senate majority leader harry reid is concerned. steve, what do you take from that? and what do you tack from the gop strategy? >> well look, i mean, that -- what we just saw there is going to be on all the morning shows tomorrow morning. so people who are asleep right now and didn't stay up with us to watch are going to wake up and watch the morning shows and they're going to see him on talking about the need to get a resolution. i think -- i suppose in some small way, that helps

republicans make that case. we've talked about earlier. they're the ones who have been driving this. house republicans are the ones who have been trying to seek some solution. i think it probably helps him make that case. is it decisive? i don't think it is. >> i think a will the of people don't know a conference report is order and they might think that's the proper next step. but the point is if you listen to veteran capitol hill staff, the phones are going to ring tomorrow morning. if they find a way out quickly, it's going to be okay. if they have a strategy for the debt ceiling which is really a scary thing to gamble with. if they have a strategy for that and they can get out of this, fine. they have to find one fast. >> juan? >> i was struck by that

performance by speaker boehner. he's a capable man. but he is tired and he's frustrated. something is going on with john boehner there. that was so short, so brief. i suggested earlier there were two options. one is that he could breathe fire and speak to the base and say we're here, we made the fight. and we're going to continue to fight for a few days. or we could say here's our exit strategy. he did neither. he talked in sort of arcane language about this conference. we know the conference is not going to happen. i don't even know why he bothered to come out. steve suggests it's for the morning tv shows, but such a sultry display. he didn't have any passion about it. >> charles? >> he's looking for his exit ramp, he understands where the fight has to be. the dismissal, the attempt, there's no attempt whatsoever by harry reid or obama or anyone to reach out and actually have a compromise, which would have been easy to do, that makes it

all the more incumbent for republicans to take the fight clael raelly hard to obama on the debt ceiling. where his back will be against the wall. >> most people are not plugged in like charles. now everyone is plugged in and no, obama care is owned by the democrats. ooze you point out, the party line vote -- >> there was never a question. if there was one issue on which republicans have been united, voc vocal, almost wild over this, the 2010 election was almost entirely over obama care, that's a well known issue. that wasn't a problem. the problem is how do you stop it? that's a question of tactics it's not a betrayal of principle to think how do you win this? >> but the timing here matters. i think having this discussion as obamacare is opening up and focusing attention on the

problems. that's going to be important. >> we will look at the markets both here and abroad. how this all factors in when this special edition of "special report" continues after the break. ooh, homemade soup! yeah... [ male announcer ] campbell's homestyle soup with farm grown veggies. just like yours. huh. [ male announcer ] and roasted white meat chicken. just like yours. [ male announcer ] you'll think it's homemade. i love this show. [ male announcer ] try campbell's homestyle soup. [ male announcer ] you'll think it's homemade. [kevin] paul and i have been [paul] well...forever.w. [kevin] he's the one person who loves pizza more than i do. aul] we're obsessed. [kevin] we decided to make our obsession our livelihood. [kevin] business was really good. [kevin] then our sauce supplier told me: "you got to get quickbooks." [kevin]quickbooks manages money, tracks sales and expenses. [paul] we even use it to accept credit cards. [paul] somebody buys a pie with a credit card, boom, all the accounts update. [paul] when we started hiring,we turned on payroll.

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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. this is about money so let's find out how it's affecting markets around the world we have team coverage tonight on capitol >> this whole dispute is about money. we talk about the domestic impa impact, but we begin with the international markets which are already up and running for the day. david piper is live in bangkok where it's late morning. hello, david. >> asian markets are watching developments very closely in washington, d.c., but today they're firmer. japanese stocks moved into

positive territory during the morning session. hong kong stock market is closed today, but other markets are also moving ahead. they immediately sold off after recent strong gains. japanese stocks fell heavily after eight weeks of strong gains. other asian marks followed the nikkei lower. hong kong's markets slump 1 1/2% on monday over fears america's problems could hurt the chinese economy. analysts say investors are worried the deadlock could continue and drag the markets down further. >> the global markets are so disappointed with the american politicians engaged in useless and pointless political gesturing. instead of trying to solve the economic problems facing them.

>> some point out a u.s. goth shut doup would be temporary and that's sup poring the marks. they add investors are looking for the problems to be resolved quickly because asia's marks are booming at the moment. >> now for how the shutdown will play with the american markets. >> it's already played into the american economy. and probably already affected your 401(k) and we're not even 30 minutes into this. u.s. markets down across the board as they closed last evening. the dow jones industrial 56r7b8g, falling 128 opponents. nasdaq, s&p 500, 10 points. all mostly, investors say, because of fears about a government shutdown. now that it's finally arrived, the congressional budget office says the effect of a government shutdown does get worse the longer you get into it. as hundreds of thousands of federal workers are removed from the u.s. economy along with millions, perhaps billions of

dollars in federal contract dollars and one investor says he's concerned about a prolonged fight. >> if this gets into the debt limit fight, and that one is come, and that one is a different political structure and more power in the house among the republicans and in the caucus, this then gets prolonged. we lose a lot of gdp, probably 0.2% of 1% each month. >> the last shut down here, you did have a loss in gdp in the final quarter of '95 and the first quarter of 1996. but you saw real economic pickup after those shutdowns. there was an effect then and a real recovery or bounce to that then. but that's a much different economy in '95 and '96 than we're looking at today. it was a much stronger economy. one that had much stronger growth than we had now.

and much stronger underpinnings. it's difficult to compare when you go back 17 years. one point the investors are making right now is how does this bode for the government debt ceiling fight? and that's one congress has to resolve by october 17. back to you. >> because, rich, the debt ceiling fight is where the market is most jittery. >> terrified of the fact that the u.s. might default as the world reserve currency is very frightening thought for investors. >> we have more from the panel on all of this. health care exchanges will open up all across the country as people sign up for obama care. what this whole fight was about. more from the panel right after this. (vo) you are a business pro.

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republicans seemed like they were going through the regular motions, trying to make a point that they tier doing everything they can by the book, but the other side is not biting. is that going to work on the rhetorical mountain they have to climb once this thing sets in tomorrow, or today, rather. >> i really expected in the last 36 hours that i don't know boehner would not go to shut doup. and if he did, it would be brief. maybe 36 hours. it doesn't seem tonight like they know what let's doing. there's a lot of confusion among his members in leadership, close to leadership about what the exit ramp is. thf conference thing is a joke. by april 15, their constitutional requirement to come up with a conference on a

budget, sdmenate republicans objected to that. they want to sit down together and compromise, they know that this conference thing is literally a face-saving move to buy a few more hours before they get out of this. >> does this hurt at battle that boehner wanted to set up on the debt ceiling does this whole what part over the past 12 hours hurt them? >> i think it probably does. i think certainly it's the case that the longer this lasts, the more it complicates matters. he moves to a clean cr, which would be sort of a step to move to a fight on the debt ceiling. what it can say to the people who voted in favor of this latest resolution is look, you may have made clenls that you weren't going to vote for a continuing resolution that funds obama care, but you did. that's what happened earlier this evening. now that you've already crossed

that bridge, let's just stay together and have this fight on the debt kreeling where we've actually got real leverage. there were only a handful of republicans who didn't vote for this latest reiteration of the continuing resolution for that reason. i think john boehner has a stroung hand to say let's move off of this particular skreeling and go on to the debt ceiling. >> there are some red state democrats who have to be nervous. >> you don't see republicans upping the pressure on those democrats. instead it's been republicans shooting at republicans but your point is well taken.

you look at pryor and landrew and say hey, these guys are sitting ducks right there. and they're in red states. they have been unable toobl move them. harry reid and nancy pelosi says this is an attempt to bully democrats, a president and to take away what was a tremendous legislative victory. >> we are where we are, but if the republicans had started with delay instead of defund, do you think we would have been in a different place? >> yes. if they had started to make the argument a month ago about delay, to make people understand the unfairness, which is the heart of the issue, to talk about the exemption for congress, they would have had the upper hand. but because it was all a monopolized by some people in congress who wanted only to speak about essentially destroying obama care, it became an issue of the president's signature. it passed the house, passed the

senate, all this we've been hearing over and own gefr, then it became people 15i are you really going to do this over a looming resolution? so that was a loser from the beginning. the problem here is the republicans in the house are now in retreat. it goes from overturning it to delaying it, to delaying a provision and now having a conference. it's over. the ball game is over. throw in the towel. the place to fight is in the matter of tactics. but it's the truth. you fight on the debt ceiling. we know from the polls that people want to see a fight on the debt ceiling. they're not in favor of raising it in the absence of demands. americans want to see a coup until a decrease? spending and are prepared to see a fight and a threat over it. if i could add one point, we ought to be showing today the complete dysfunction of the kickoff of health care.

of these exchanges, all the loopholes, all the mistakes, all the stuff that we know is there. instead of focus being on monopolized the headlines. what it's it going to be on? the panda cam is now shut down in the zoo. >> i was working to get that shot. panda cam went from -- oh, it's still on? oh, look. it's still on. they have not flicked the switch. >> thank goodness. >> it looked like i jumped the panda right there. >> more on the other side. as we head to break, the pandas are sleeping. everything is okay for the time being. everybody can see them.

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>> back with the panel. presiden s >> we're back with the fanl. some conservatives have said this is not a being deal. the shutdown in the big picture is not horrible and shut it down, so what. and of course, there are 825,000 civilian federal employees who are furloughed. while they could get back pay, they still don't have a check and they're not going to work. and the shutdown itself is costing $2 billion. even if it's quick.

this is really -- what you hear from john boehner and the leaders in his party, and they are united. the leadership, unlike in 2011 is united this time. the pack of 40 can't choose ted cruz as their ledder or anyone else because they only have a number in the 40s. so you have this united front, mostly in the senate, most all of the senate republicans, 180 in the house republican conference and at the leadership table who say we're concerned about the long-term vision of the republican party and our ability to build a national coalition for the white house in 2016. this is not going to threaten their majority next year. they're going to be invited back to their gerimander district and they're going to hold the house. they want the senate and they want the white house. this is why when people say it wasn't so bad, a you know, in

'95. john boehner has lived through it. he thinks it was bad. he begs to differ. that's why it's so strange to find him in this moment where he really doesn't have an exit plan for the next fight, which is more important, which is the debt ceiling. and that's a fight they can't lose. they can't actually bring -- the party can't bring the country to the precipice of the default again and beer is seved by the public as being responsible. >> in essence by going through how all this plied out, isn't boehner in a better position with his caucus tonight than he was? >> arguably he is. but i think there are some short-term implications. they have longer term imp will i cases to be sure, but there are shorter term implications. this goes back to the point charles was a micking. if he moves quickly on a clean, continuing resolution, the story changes entirely. then there's not a story -- i mean, there are two ways the next three weeks can play out. we can have constant stories about government shutdown and panda cams and all of this and

intransgent republicans, what have you, and process, or you can have storied about obamacare and the congressional exemption and the individual mandate versus the businessmandate and democratic splits. i think this is a big moment. i disagree with some of my colleagues who believe that what ted cruz and mike lee and others did served no purpose. i think if you go back a ways, it was unclear that obama care was going to be part of this discussion at all. for making it a part of the discussion, i think they deserve a temperament amount of credit. now they won that victory. it's part of the discussion. everybody is talking about it. now is the time i think for a tactical pivot so that you might get something valuable, something that could be called a win out of this. >> but that requires subtly the tactical pivot. had the argument been we have to shut down obama care and then a week before the shut down you

realize this isn't the fight you want, you want to do it on the debt ceiling. so what you do is you do it, we're going to have to -- republicans are going to have to pass a clean cr, and you pivot immediately. >> you' seen these messages. liberty 76, okay, i'm convinced that krauthammer has lost it. we support the shutdown to defund obamacare or delay oba obamacare. >> look, i respect the sincerity of the opinion, but it is suicide. what you're doing is you're shutting the government down. there's no end game. you can't continue with a shutdown. all of it is going to be on the head of the republicans. instead of concentrating on what's going to happen, what will be happening with obamacare and focus on that, if you pass a clean cr and fold on this as you're going to have to, then you pivot to where your strength is. you can do the threat on the debt ceiling because the polls

have shown the country is behind you on the debt ceiling. and the president is not allow that to happen. he was hungering for the government to be shut down. he was hoping it will. it's the exact opposite on the debt ceiling. he's going to have to negotiate on that, and that's where you can wing. obamacare comes on line in a few hours. we take a look at some of the early problems. some things that still have to be worked out. the what administration is hoping for. the panel reaction after the break. you can prevent gas with beano meltaways, or treat gas with these after you get it. now that's like sunblock before or sun burn cream later. oh, somebody out there's saying, now i get it! take beano before and there'll be no gas.

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>> today marks the beginning of what may be the most important phase so far of the president's health care overall.

jim engle reports there are not too many people expecting a smooth start, though. >> reporter: there are still numerous questions about how and whether it will work. >> obama care succeeds or fails based on enrollment, period. >> the most important thing is whether young people sign up. >> the key are the young and healthy who don't have big medical bills but whose premiums will be used to cover the older and sicker. younger people are subsidizing older people in this law because health care costs for older people run more than seven times more than the cost for younger people. >> the key question is how many young people will sign up. financial insent is may discourage a lot of young people from enrolling. >> a lot of young people from 18 to 34 would actually save at least $500 by foregoing eninsurance on the exchange and

simply paying the penalty under the individual mandate. >> about 3.7 million young people would save that much, he found. 3 million of whom would save about $1,000. with a fine not having insurance only $95 the first year, and many young people spending far less on medical care now than obama care would cost them, analysts fear the young will pass it up. i think it's one nor thing that's going to discourage younger people from signing up. who call fies for subsidies is another confusion that could delay people signing up. >> people were supposed to have a calculator to figure out what their premiums would be. doesn't work. after hyping october 1 and a brand-new insurance claim would begin over this past weekend, administration officials were playing down the rollout they once touted. >> now they're faced with the potential for a poor launch of their signature domestic program. they're trying to set these

expectations as low as possible. >> october 1 is going to be important whether they think it is or not. if these websites are not really functional on october 1, that's another thing lookly to drive young and healthy people away. >> and those on all sides agree on one thing, if the young don't sign up, obama care will be far, far more expensive if it works at all. sfwlet. >> jim, thanks. back with the panel. listen, polls show a lot of people are concerned about obama care. clearly, republicans are energized on this issue, and there are a lot of uncertainties. >> first let me just say it's an historic day. it's unbelievable day. i mean, this is the start really of where obama care meets the road, where most americans can engage with obama care. until now you've had some changes with insurance. doing away with the idea that insurance companies can deny you

because of pre-existing conditions, your children staying on till they're 26. and some of these other consumer-type protection. but this is the first time people can engage, and it's the first time. i have a piece on foxnews.com that it is, to quote joe biden a big bleeping deal. this is unbelievable. that the united states joins now with other industrialized western democracies, great brita britain, canada and the rest in terms of moving towards some form of national health care. it's unprecedented, it goes back to teddy roosevelt, through ronald reagan, lbj, bill clinton and hillary clinton tried in the '90s. and now you have -- of course, president bush had the prescription drug benefit. now you have this effort. you were pointing out to me the level of opposition that dis exists. and of course, it has become, i think, the lightning rod for republican opposition. it is the source of the tea party. if you go back to 2010 to the town hall meetings, to the shift in the congress we know now

created, i think, this tea party caucus. so much of what we're talking about is this. is it really what's on the table? we know from the same polls and polls are pretty clear people don't like it. some actually want single payer, which is a more extreme form, but people don't like it. they're so confused. it's so voluminous. one of the jokes around town still plays today, three kbreers later is who read this bill. it's so big. nobody knows all of the various different changes and possibilities with it. but what we do know on this very first day is this is american history. >> it gets past midnight, he brings out the bleeps. >> it's an historic day. it is a day where i think we would have seen an historical flop. as we just heard from jim engle, when you can't calculate the

premium on the computer which is the heart of what you're doing, this is not going to be a success. another young people whom the whole scheme depends are not going to sign up because ironically, if you can sign up with a pre-existing condition, you fall down the steps, you call in and you buy insurance at the bottom of the steps. so why buy it in advance when you're healthy. it makes no sense. for any young person, it makes no sense. so instead of letting it hp and play out, unfortunately what we're talking about all night long is the government shutdown. >> well kurt craig writes, the panel is missing the entire point. the republican base is now solidly behind the house. the tea party will be bad has hell with republicans. >> this is an important point. the house has already moved on from the defund fight. it is no longer a defund fight by virtue of what happened with the exception of just a handful of house members. this has now become a fight

about delaying the individual mandate and congressional exemption. a good place to have the fight. >> you see what's happening, though. >> it's not just that one. it's many, many, many more. >> now we've gotten to the point where the base thinks this is the way to get rid of obama care. we all know there's no way. >> and that's why i think it's going to lead to a deeper divide in the party as it prepares to try to win the white house in '16. everyone is going to be fired up for 2014. they're going to have a good election in 2014. but the party is divided. >> stay here with us on the fox news channel. the government shut down, budget battle and obama care. have a good morning. [kevin] paul and i have been friends...

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