about more travel destinations. >> great. >> and tomorrow's show, what's really in your favorite beauty products? >> not so pretty. what you need to know. and also, beating the sunday blues and how to shed pounds on your lunch break. >> no lunch. that's the key. this is a fox news special presentation of the cost of re -- shutdown. what's up. now live from new york, neil cavuto. well, day five as the government is still shut down. today, though, we are open for business, asking simply, what's up? and whether these guys are any closer to a deal, because while the storm may be losing steam, well, this one is not. welcome, everybody. glad to have you on what it will be a very busy cost of freedom. i'm neil cavuto, where at this hour we could see a vote in the house that actually has support from both sides of the aisle, even the president of the united

states, who in this case to fund backpay for federal workers. we're on it. in fact, we're everywhere. in washington with chad at the capitol and chad henry at the white house. in chicago with sandra smith monitoring the markets. in london, steven pope. on the global fallout. and throughout the next few hours, we'll be getting reaction from mike lee who is at the center of this political storm, sheila jackson lee whose controversial comment created another storm, and rick snyder who predicted this storm, and john snow on what in two weeks could be a far bigger storm. voting on at least for now something both sides agree on. >> making sure that the

furloughed workers get backpay. it's sponsored by the virginians. they represent a lot of federal workers who are affected by this. they want to make sure they get backpay. this could go over to the senate. the senate doesn't meet until noon, and they may pass it by unanimous consent. but that's really the only one that will be done here at the capitol today. woody allen used to say that 80% of life is just showing up. this is the 80%. if congress weren't in, it would be bad optics. they have to do something here, and that's making sure that the workers get the backpay. >> but there's nothing you could say on the immediate horizon that indicates they are making progress on eventually opening the government up? >> absolutely not. everybody seems to be locked in a cryogenic freeze right now. no negotiation going on. no back channel talks or anything. i mean, i think what's been interesting here is that, you

know, the issue of obama care and tying this to keeping the government open, those two issues are wedded. and until there's a divorce between those, there are not the votes on the republican side of the aisle in the republican side to reopen the government. they say this issue will kick into the debt ceiling in just a couple of weeks. in 1995, the discussion was all about the spending, the top line. there's little talk about that in this. but in two weeks, the talk will be about spending, and that's where republicans think they can make some progress because they usually win on spending issues because people want smaller government. >> chad, thank you very much. we will be returning to you as developments warrant. sometime in october, we're told october 17, the government effectively will run out of money. it will be down to its last $30 billion, whatever it can find under the couch cushions, and has to raise the debt ceiling.

therein lies the battle royale. to ed-henry who would have been accompanying the people to beautiful valley, to see these ladies, we can take a look here. but that's not going to be the case. i never understood these dances anyway. but the bottom line, you'll be robbed of a chance to share in this cultural excitement. but you're outside the white house now. >> yeah. >> with the very latest on anything going on there today. >> yeah. the real story is my wife cancelled that trip to asia, not the government shutdown, neil, as you look at that video. no, look, as chad talks about the fact that republicans would like to eventually get this to a spending fight, that's been something the white house has been sort of bemused by, which is that it's been all about health care and not about spending and debt, which is what republicans have been saying since 2011 they want to be their focus in terms of tying it to the debt ceiling. long-term, neither side really has a tenable position.

for the president to go publicly over the last couple of days and say, look, i'll negotiate with anybody, but yet when he went behind closed doors a few nights ago at the white house with congressional leaders of both parties, by all accounts he said, i'm not going to negotiate over the debt ceiling. i'm not going to negotiate over the government shutdown. you've got to reopen the government, and you've got to have straight up or down vote to lift the debt ceiling. no strings attached on health care or anything else. and if you look at the president's numbers, he's down to 41% in the last poll in terms of approval rating. so can he continue to say i'm aren't going to negotiate on these things? meanwhile, john boehner, can he continue to tie those two together in terms of health care and shutting the government down as chad was just laying out, when if you look at the quinnipiac poll from a few days ago, it was saying that the president had a problem selling the health care law because it was 49% to 43% said they don't like the new health care law, but by 72% in that same poll

said they don't like tying health care changes to this whole government shutdown stuff. so that long-term, what's john boehner's next move? i think the bottom line is, there was actually a somewhat positive development over the last 24 hours that hasn't gotten enough attention, which is speaker boehner letting it leak out that he's not going to let the nation default. why is he doing that? number one, he's trying to reassure the markets. number two, he is trying to put a line in the sand to his fellow republicans, look, he was willing to bring this to a government shutdown, but he realizes that default is uncharted territory and doesn't want to be the speaker of the house who lets the nation default just as the president has said he doesn't want a default on his watch. that's actually something that both sides finally agree on. the question to me is, what will they swap here? you know, will the president in the end even though he's saying not going to negotiate will he say, look, i'll give you more spending cuts if you reopen the government and lift the debt

s.e.a. ceiling with no other strings attached? what does boehner want to get something out of the white house that he feels will be a good bargain. we may not have a grand bargain, but maybe it's grand bargain light or something like that. >> i like that. grand bargain light. we are getting bits of an interview that the president conducted with the associated press, in which he talks about he still wants to reach an agreement with republicans and that he's very confident that the 16.7 trillion dollar debt ceiling will get raised in mid october and avoid a default. but we should hasten to add here simply going past the deadline doesn't mean you default. you don't make good if you don't make a payment. we have gone past the deadlines many times. they are not pretty. they are not easy. in fact, they are never desired. but that doesn't automatically mean you're in default. you're only in default with the money you have left if you choose not to prioritize your

bond obligations and pay off debtors. if you do that, then you're no good. you look like a dead beat. interest rates skyrocket. it's the end of the world. you might as well put cyanide in your breakfast and call it a day. bill, we get to that point, obviously, then all bets are off. but i like to remind people that it takes a leap to start getting to that leap. and the scaremongering is what's got to stop. what do you think? >> well, you can't negotiate and you can't lead while you're trying to shame the other people and trying to frighten everybody. but yogi berra said it best, it's deja vu all over again. we're back to the fiscal cliff and prior to that with the stimulus and prior to that with t.a.r.p. it seems to be after ever-going thing in washington, d.c. will rogers said he didn't write jokes, he just reported the facts on the government in washington, d.c. that's what we have here, and

you can't negotiate when you've created a climate that's so destructive as we've done now. and frankly, what ought to happen and what would happen in the business, is that the four leaders in the congress, along with the president, should lock themselves in a room and not come out until this thing is resolved. >> all right. we're going to get to this later in the show, bill. but i did want to pick your brain on this notion that what is it they say about the confidence that's out there and how the world thinks of us. right now, our markets have been pretty steady. you know, our bond markets are steady. no one has been running like crazy, but that's because they all expect this to be resolved and they don't expect this to drag on. they certainly don't expect us to default on our obligations. but a couple of years ago, none of us envisioned our aaa rating to get knocked for a loop when standard & poor's did just that. are we a little too cocky here?

>> well, i think the markets believe it's generally going to be resolved because it's always been resolved in the past. and every time you say history is not going to repeat or this time is different, it hasn't been true. this time, though, each side seems to have drawn an intractable line in the sand and doesn't want to cross it. that really isn't allowing people to move ideas forward. confucius said fix problem, not blame. and we're spending so much time blaming everybody for what problems we have now that we're not putting the collective wisdom and judgment together of the people in d.c. and frankly the general business population to try and resolve this issue. and i can tell you as you know having run an international company, people around the world are staring at us trying to figure out exactly what it is we can't resolve, and ultimately it will affect business confidence. and ultimately, if this thing doesn't show signs of resolution, the markets will feel the pain. >> who does business blame for

more this or does it care? do they all just say, you all look like children? >> i don't think business is blaming anybody. we haven't passed a budget since 2009. imagine me going to my board of directors, saying i don't have a budget this year, i just want a continuing resolution. you wouldn't last 25 minutes as a ceo. and until we have a budget and a mark in the sand, all of this stuff is very difficult. from my perspective, i think the business community is looking at washington, d.c., as functionally broke, and saying to itself, if they can't solve this problem, we're going to have to figure out ways to do this on our own. but clearly, no side is winning on this issue, despite what you hear in terms of postulating out of the white house or out of the republicans. i think both sides look ridiculous. >> bill johnson, good catching up with you. thank you very much the president could can

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all right. you always go by whatever tea leaves are sprinkled before you, and one of the things we're gleaning from the president's interview that just wrapped up with a.p. is that he is saying he is willing to negotiate changes to his signature health care law on other ways to reduce spending, but first and foremost he will not bargain on any of the above until congress reopens the government and passes a new debt ceiling. none of this is new, although it does sort of beg a new issue here, that he would be asking congress and be asking other

leaders to trust him. in other words, that we will address these issues that are near and dear to you. republican congressman from ohio jim jordan on that. that's what he seems to be saying, i will deal with these issues that you want me to deal with, congressman, but first give me a continuing resolution, reopen the government and we'll talk. you don't trust him? >> no. look, neil, what we don't need is a clean cr. we need a fair cr. and this argument has been talked about, but why should big business no breaks? and why should that single mom have to go into the ex-change? why do we treat americans unfairly? one of the hallmarks of this country, equal treatment under the law, and all we're asking the president to do is treat americans fairly, every single american. and that's a pretty basic argument.

sit down and talk to us. he gives a list of people who are going to be hurt by the shutdown. how about that single mom who has to go into obama care and can't get the hours she needs to take care of her family? that's who we're trying to stand up for and make this thing work. >> do you think, congressman, that the president is just sort of trying to hang you guys out there on a spigot and keep you coming back with one concession after another and just punish you essentially? >> well, i mean, i will tell you this. i've never seen our conference more unified. i really haven't. we understand that this is important. and i would argue this -- >> you mean, your conference is unifo uniform, because mike lee ran into a -- >> i'm in the house. >> i know. but it doesn't all seem hunky-dory. in the senate, quite the opposite, right? >> in the house, we've been unified. and the ones who were breaking ranks, 57 democrats have been voting for some of the smaller bills that would fund parts of the government and keep things

open as the president talked about. but this debate was inevitable. we were elected in 2010 to do one thing, stop obama care. it didn't take place in 2011. we didn't go all the way to the mat in 2011 because we thought the supreme court would take care of it. but here we are in 2013. obama care is happening. everybody knows this law is not ready. and the only ones left to fix it are the people who were sent here to fix it in the first place, house republicans. so the debate was inevitable, and the president can't decide who gets exempt from it. we should treat all americans the same and fairly. >> look, i will be open to some of these adjustments you talk about, says the president, but i'm not going to hold our country's government hostage to that, that i will do and consider and debate with you these things you want. what do you make of that? you're just saying, look, we don't believe you'll do that. is that what you're saying?

>> well, the president is always back and forth. one day he's going to bomb syria, the next day he's not. one day he'll negotiate with us, the next day he's not. now he's saying fix it, and i'll debate with you later. >> how long do you think it will go on? >> i don't know. the democrats won't even sit down with us and talk about it. we have said just come to the conference table. just do what the american system says you're supposed to do. appoint people to sit down and negotiate with house members and figure this out. they won't even do that. >> do you think they hate you and you hate them and you hate each other so much you just hate being even in each others' company? >> no. i don't hate them. i hate the impact this will have on americans. everyone knows that obama care is making it tough for economic growth to take place. everyone knows that. not just conservative republicans and not just republicans. james hoffa said it would hurt working americans.

the "chicago tribune," neil, the president's hometown paper, has twice endorsed him for president, has said delay the entire law. so this is something that everyone in the country knows except the president of the united states. he says no, i just want to delay it for parts of america, not for all americans. >> congressman, it's always good to have you. thank you very much. >> thank you, neil. this was the week that was when it all started and we had a selloff, right? some are blaming the debate back and forth. others are blaming something that the president said in the middle of this. what he said that rattled a lot of folks after this. check it out... over 20 million drivers are insured with geico. so get a free rate quote today. i love it! how much do you love it? animation is hot...and i think it makes geico's 20 million drivers message very compelling, very compelling. this is some really strong stuff!

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never before has a party

threatened to not pay our bills except for 2011. the last time that speaker boehner and some of the same people in the house of representatives -- >> all right. that was from an interview the president just conducted with a.p. a few minutes ago. he is wrong on that. i mean, the party that did that was the democratic party with president bush and then senator obama voted against raising the debt ceiling, saying that with the tax cuts and the military spending, he was trying to send a message. so obviously when you vote against raising the debt ceiling, you are effectively forcing what could be cataclysmic developments to get your way. so it's fair game that both parties play this sort of game. you can call it a reckless game, a nuclear game, but it's a game that has been well played out by both political parties. he of course as a senator himself. let's get the read from the markets and how this is all

falling out with sandra smith from chicago. jonas in new york and gary b. smith in washington, steven pope in london. sandra, do you first. far more dangerous of concern to the markets was the president's comments earlier this week that he was surprised the markets weren't more volatile than they have been and are in the face of all of this. in other words, i got the sense he was almost tempting a big selloff, almost as if he seemed to want it. but what do you make of that? >> well, there has been that argument on wall street that he almost is talking the markets into a slide. but, you know, you're looking at the dow over the course of the past week, and it's pretty much been flat since the government shutdown. and if you were to look at the s&p 500 or the nasdaq, neil, very much in line with recent history when we've seen government shutdowns. they have actually gone higher over this five-day shutdown period. so while the president might be sending a message to wall street

and to the markets that this could be catastrophic, his words, not mine, that this could cause a freeze in the credit markets, et cetera, the market is trying to send a message right back to him, neil, that, hey, we believe that the government will meet its debt obligations. the bond market has been rallying, and stocks have pretty much been resilient through all of this. >> gary b. smith, the only way you could get the markets to freefall is if you do go into default. but that's something that wouldn't be inevitable, even if you do, you know, not get a debt ceiling hike. so you could prioritize your of that. but is it proper for any leadership figure to be almost tempting that fate? >> i think, neil, it's dissi disgusting to be honest with you. is this what a leader does? if it was ronald reagan, ronald

reagan would say, look, this is a tough time, but we're professionals and we're going to work this out. there's nothing to be worried about now. only if you're the kind of mean-spirited person do you say the markets should be worried, because what you want to happen is you want the markets to collapse so the republicans cave and you get everything you want. i think this is the poorest example of leadership since he's taken office. >> jonas, what is the fallout from this if we do get to the point where we get closer and closer to october 17, and we supposedly run out of money, is that when they start feeling the heat? >> well, we've already seen some of the heat. the cost to ensure the u.s. government against default has gone up. our dollar has been sliding for weeks because of this. i don't want to downplay a debt default. most major crises are because of the perception that debt won't get paid back. that goes to our mortgage bonds a few years ago. a much smaller government, a much smaller default caused problems in the global markets.

but the president doesn't need to remind people that it is a big deal. he's not dishonest, but he should keep quiet. this unfortunate lee ly could b very big situation. >> steven, from your advantage point from london, how do we look here in this country? >> kind of reminds me of the eurozone and the protracted political debates that go on in brussels. i would sense that the markets are taking it in a calm manner only treasury bills that mature at the end of october have shown any turbulence at the current time. otherwise, i think markets are taking it very calmly. we are well used to european politicians trying to meddle, so we ignored the president's words the last few days. fully speaking, we are convinced that the united states will honor its obligations and we will find a way to overcome this. >> sandra, do the markets factor in a settlement? in other words, all of the huffing and puffing not

withstanding, we will avoid that brink, or do they quietly fear, maybe not? >> well, we can sit here and talk about the fact that the market's been resilient. bond prices are up. the stock markets remain pretty much flat throughout this. but one thing is for sure. we have seen a lack of participation in the stock market. we've been seeing very low volumes, neil, and that speaks volumes to what is happening to market psychology through all of this. when you've got a president that's even mentioning the stock market and what could possibly happen if there is a default on government debt, then all of a sudden you have investors that are concerned that it's not all about earnings and the progress and the actual performance of the companies in which they are investing. now the government is involved, and something the president could say could affect the stock they own. and that really damages investor psychology. >> we'll watch it very closely. thank you very much. meanwhile, that october 17 figure you hear again and again is the point at which the

treasury secretary estimates we will run out of money. there will be hell to pay. what that also means is we are able to spend only about 65% of the money that we think we have. i know that gets a little arcane, but money still comes in to uncle sam. senator mike lee says default is never an option. but the president has equated the two. what do you think of that? >> well, i think he's wrong, and i think he's trying to scare the american people, and this is all a distraction from the continuing resolution discussion. that's really a separate issue. the fact is that the democrats led by the president and by harry reid are becoming the party of obama care. what they are saying is they are not willing to let us fund anything in government unless we're willing to fund everything in government. including obama care, which is a law that's costing a lot of people jobs and affordable health care, quite ironically. so that really is the problem here. we want to fund government, and

we can fund most of government very quickly and with bipartisan support, if only they will allow us. right now they are holding their ground, and they won't. >> well, the other side is targeting you and your colleague, senator ted cruz, and you had a run-in with the republican leadership to say nothing of some of your moderate republican colleagues, who gave you an earful. and now i know these are private off the record affairs, but i am told that, you know, you were almost like a pinata. how do you feel about that? >> well, look, that's a distraction. it's unfortunate that some of my colleagues chose to leak details of that meeting. one-sided details, i would add. but we don't want to get derailed on that. >> well, who was attacking you? they all come out unnamed, you know, ripping you a new one. but who attacked you? all the obvious players? >> those anonymous sources will remain anonymous for the time being. >> was john mccain one of them? >> look, i'm not going to get into who was doing that. i want to echo what jim jordan said just a minute ago. the important thing to remember here is that we do have a very

united house republican caucus. we've got john boehner and eric cantor acting heroically in order to protect the american people from the effects of obama care. >> does that mean you don't think your senate colleagues are? >> what i'm talking about is that it's the house of representatives that has passed these continuing resolutions to keep aspects of our federal government funded. they will keep funded national parks, veterans benefits, cancer research, and other important programs that have been passed with bipartisan support under the house republican leadership. but so far, harry reid and the senate democrats refuse to allow those to move forward. >> but your colleagues are blaming you for this. they are blaming you and senator cruz who went too far on this. you say what to that? >> i say they are wrong. i say there are a lot of people throughout the country who agree with this strategy, and a lot of people in the house of representatives who agree with them. if those people say that we're

to blame, if they really believe that, let them come forward and state so publicly. >> senator, thank you so much. the other side, congresswoman sheila jackson lee. and the government is still shut down. (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade and invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can quickly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets my account follow me online so i can react in real-time. plus, my local scottrade office is there to help. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates. ugh! actually progresso's soup has pretty bold flavor.

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welcome, everybody. here's the latest we have for you right now on a shutdown that shows no sign of letting up. backpay on the way. the house is set to vote moments from now to do just that for thousands of federal workers. leaders will then speak. democrat leaders after that. we will bring you both as soon as they come. but as soon as they start the name-calling, we're going to get out of it because we think that's stupid. meanwhile, secretary of state john kerry blasting congress for the message it is sending to the world. and if you are trying to sign up with those new federal health exchanges this weekend, good luck. it will be down for maintenance during off-peak hours. all right. the president is making changes to the health care law, and has done so no fewer than a dozen times. but now tells republicans -- at least republicans say they

cannot. they say that's unfair. texas democratic congresswoman sheila jackson lee says that is not unfair. she is joining me right now. congresswoman, if the president says as he has today that changes in the health care law just after we sign a clean, continuing resolution, what's to stop republicans from saying we don't trust you, we don't believe you will do that? what do you sa i? >> first of all, i find that upsetting and disappointing, and if i might use the word "despicable" because all of us have lived in skins where we have had presidents that have not been in our party. if i was to say that about president bush on a number of issues, when we created the homeland security department or did a number of important legislative initiatives that president bush did, the whole leave no child behind, and democrats had to trust but they also had to work together. here is my point, neil. first of all, no matter what subcaucus you may be in on the

republican side or the democratic side, we have all had our moments of collaborating with the other party. i certainly co-sponsored, worked on and passed legislation. border security comes to mind and many others where i have worked with my friends and colleagues on the other side of the aisle. this is enormously upsetting that there is a small contingent of radical right that will destroy the conference. among all of the things that speaker boehner is trying to do, he is just trying to hold it together. here is the point. even in the shutdown of '95 that i was here as a baby member, newt gingrich in all of the frustration had dialogue, but it was a budgetary issue. this is a legislative issue that is the law of the land. everyone knows that bills are frequently amended and changed. no one has said that the affordable care act will continue in its form without some input even by democrats working collaboratively together. what we have now is crisis. neil, we are hearing stories of

these nonessential workers who are usually at the low end of the totem poll in the federal government. we know we have unemployment everywhere, so we know people are suffering and we are working to surge this government up. but we are hearing of people having to be taken away to a shelter because of domestic abuse. we just heard a story of a soldier's wife who is so frustrated and stressed because she didn't know what she's going to do. he is in afghanistan, and she's laid off. so i think -- >> congresswoman, you can relay a lot of those stories. but both parties are pretty good at using them to make a point. and i want to alert you, congresswoman, because a lot of people raise hackles when soon after the incident in washington this week with the chase scene and the shooting, you said this. and i want to go back to this. >> rather than respond in a way that leaves 8,000 federal employees unemployed, and god knows the tragedy of this person came on the hill in a black car,

no one knows what drives this person to do this, but what i would say to you is let's get our wheels back on, serve the american people, bring them back, vote for a bill today that will open the government. >> i didn't understand that, congresswoman. you weren't equating or blaming the shutdown on what that woman did, were you? >> not at all. and my words are very clear. very, very clear. very, very, very, very, very clear. i asked a question. i didn't suggest an answer. i said no one knows what drove this person. but let us get back to getting people back to work so that we can move government forward, and make sure that we are lessening the stress across the nation -- >> then why did you bring it up in the context of talking about ending the shutdown? >> neil, because i have a right to the first amendment, and i was saddened by the fact that this happened, and then of course i watched our brave men and women in all of the police forces trying to do the best

that they could, many of them unpaid. and so it was a perfectly right -- >> but you're a leader in congress. >> it was a perfectly right analogy, and i'm not going to pull my words about it, because i was saddened by that disappointing situation. >> when you say that, and the president talks about default, and the president talks about his surprise that the market is not being more volatile, in role as a leader and prominent member of congress, all the way up to the president of the united states, is that type of language really adding fuel to the fire? does it do a disservice not only to your constituents but not the country? >> no, i don't think so, because i didn't throw any fire and gasoline. what i said was, clearly, we don't know. but i tell you what we do know that we can do, we can get our government with its wheels running again. and the simple process if i can go back to the point that i was making, we don't have any

disagreement, unlike us being represented by a senator from texas and senator lee, with the idea that we can work through the affordable care act being that it's the law of the land. but what i said is, let's get the government running. and that's what the president said. and we will be able to, including the president, is willing to work with congress. and by the way, negotiations should be going on with the house and the senate. the leadership of the house and the senate. and harry reid, as much as we might want to charge him up with inappropriate procedural leadership, and i think he has done an excellent job, he -- >> well, the republicans say he isn't even bothering to meet with them. but both sides -- >> no, let me say this. >> congresswoman, both sides seem to be acting like kids. >> we can't defund obama care. we cannot be held hostage. >> i want to be clear. you are saying, if you just get a clean spending measure through, then you're happy to revisit health care, not defunding it but delaying key provisions of it, and you are

asking republicans to take you at your word for that, that you'll do that? >> let me -- you have it clear through regular order. through the regular order. that's me speaking of looking at the issues that are of concern. i didn't say that delaying the mandate, but that's regular order. they can put up a bill as they have done and through regular order. frankly, the defunding of obama care and delaying the one-year mandate for the individual when we have already opened it up and it's working at the speed that it's going to continue to work at as they fix the glitches, as they fix the glitches when google first opened up. but neil, i'm -- >> well, it's not going at a rapid speed. >> we'd be willing to engage in the legislative process like i assume they did in the 1965 passage of medicare and medicaid, which has had many changes, which by the way the republicans passed with very few democratic votes on medicare part d. many changes have come about, including obama care, closing

the donut hole. neil, we can do this. we have done this with our republican colleagues. i'm ready to do it. >> but you want a clean resolution first and then do it. >> i'm ready to do it, my friend. thank you for having me. the vote is ensuing in the house where they'll try to pay furloughed workers. we'll see how that goes. and h. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps end our night before it even starts? what if i ewhat if?ron what if i suddenly have to go? what if? but what if the most important question

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you just heard from sheila jackson lee from the fine state of texas. just get a clean resolution out, that increases all of the spending and we'll address your concerns, republicans. just trust us. dick armey ain't buying it, but he ain't buying what republicans are doing either on the extreme side. the man who was the epicenter of the last government shutdown on then and now. dick, what do you make of sheila jackson lee's argument that you republicans who hate this health care law, it is the law, but we will address some of these issues you have, but you first got to get this clean cr

through, this continuing resolution, and then we'll talk. republicans say we don't believe you. we just don't believe you. where do you stand on this? >> well, i probably would join the group that doesn't believe her. quite frankly, she's not in any way authorized to speak for her party. and i listened to that interview. i have to say it was quite puzzling. the only thing i could really conclude with any degree of certainty from that whole interview is that we're all dumber for having heard it. >> well, that -- thank you very much. but one thing, congressman, i would say is that the two sides are very far apart here. and they are still using the shutdown to justify the craziest of things, whether it was this bizarre chase scene, and the shooting in washington this week, just as it was the sequestration cuts that washington, d.c., mayor said at the time he blamed for a lack of security at the navy yard that allowed aaron alexis to do what he did. this happens all the time, and i'm wondering, where can we go

with these type of arguments? >> i don't think you can -- you've just got to dismiss that kind of hyperbolic blaming, get rid of that stuff. the president is making some strategic mistakes we certainly did not see with bill clinton in '95. this thing with the military priests if it's true that he is blocking them and even threatening them with arrest and the things at the monuments both here and abroad. >> how did bill clinton and you guys, newt gingrich, get to the table and resolve this stuff? >> well, first of all, you have to understand that the whole frock us that we had in '95 was about budgetary matters. one of the most difficult complications about this event is it that we have taken what is more urgent that is not budgetary, the health care, which incidentally amuses me, the president, his party, wants to take over 16% of the national

economy, which they think of as incidental, and the republicans are being blamed for shutting down 16% of the government, which they consider to be a national tragedy. but the fact is national traged. but the fact is we have -- the president now enjoys the fact that we are not talking about the -- tribulations of obama care. we are talking about the shutdown. for that reason he is incentivize to not settle the shutdown -- >> can't do that too long. i know. but if we press up against the debt ceiling and always equates it to default, and you i know that that is not mutually the case. but -- the longer this drags on, it could hurt him, couldn't it? >> it could. particularly because he does so many -- what seems to be so many really stupid things. this thing with the priest, military priest, and this thing with the monuments and so forth.

these are mistakes -- >> that's what happens in a shutdown. >> but the president -- this president seems to be aggravating it. if in fact the priest says let me show up and baptize the baby i will volunteer my time. you do that with and we will arrest you. >> we shall see after this. >> am in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

oh yeah. that other storm. real storm. drir it may not be packing as much punch as it had been. it is enough oil companies didn't take any chances. a lot of them are moving or shutting down 41 riggs. oil production essentially all but stopped in the gulf. alabama, joining louisiana, mississippi, and florida in

declaring a state of emergency. rick wright with the latest. >> yeah. good news. the storm weakened considerably. we thought that there was a chance without it get to hurricane strength before it made land paul will not happen. it is a very weak tropical storm. barely hanging on to that status at this point. hurricane hunters will continue to be in this afternoon and even see if there is still a tropical storm status with this. all of the action is right here. you see this cloud cover. center of the storm is way over there. so it is separated and that means it is not going have any chance to grow. you are absolutely right. where all the oil platforms are, big concentration of it here. just off the louisiana coastline. that right there is where the center of the storm is. we will see winds right in this area at times. maybe up to about 40 miles an hour. causing a little bit of problems. it is going the take a left-hand turn here quickly and move in across parts of the central gulf. but i think the only real impacts we are going the see from the storm is going to be rip currents, very rough seas and goes towards texas. if you are in the gulf this

weekend, be careful because we will see increased rip currents and it is a dangerous time to be in the waters. we are also going to see maybe two to three inches of rain across this area. that will not cause major flooding. not big storm surge thing. looks like this very quiet, active -- what we thought would be an active hurricane season is active. karen not that big of a problem for us. >> thank you very much. always the best. very thorough. you know a lot of you look at this and say, hey, you know, why should i care if -- got a little rain in the gulf? well, look eight again. oil facilities. now, a of folks say it delays price increases. it zrus an impact because when refineries are shut down, oil operations are shut down, you are not getting any oil from them. there is a delayed effect in supply and you feel it later on in the price of oil. maybe at gas pump. all of these things depend on how long their shutdown generally, not tall time, generally, these are short-lived developments. you don't feel it. but we bring it to your

attention because whether you are in the gulf or not you will feel the impact. here is something that you will feel the impact of. the shutdown. because it is going on and on. and on. and on. grit-free and dissolves completely. so you can feel free to add it to anything. and feel better about doing it. better it with benefiber. see who does good work and compare costs. it doesn't usually work that way with health care. but with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and estimates for how much i'll pay. that helps me, and my guys, make better decisions.

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shutdown. what's up? live from new york, miele cavuto. >> welcome back. we just got word of the house they approved that measure that would pay furloughed federal government workers. it goes on to the senate now. here is other developments. the president is defending the health care law in an interview with the associated press telling americans not to give up on signing up to those new exchanges despite sxhuj major glichles in the -- glitches in

the system. some barricades are come down in wisconsin. wisconsin governor depieing an order to shutdown state parks that receive federal funding. jack lew is expected to make the rounds on the sunday talk shows. follows a warning that we could plunge football a downturn. worse than the great recession if congress lets the u.s. default on its debt. reaction from treasury secretary john snow minutes away. republican governors wrought side d.c. are blasting this dysfunction inside d.c. right now. michigan governor rick snide er. we are facing a shutdown and -- obviously you -- you face acrimony in your state when do you things that aren't popular. but you have to deal with that and you have to get budgets done and get procedures done. not in washington. what do you make of this? >> it is a huge mess. it stlas is a broken political culture in washington and this isn't just the last part of it. think about the sequester and

then this and the debt ceiling. all these issues. they are not doing it the right way. >> what's the right way? >> they shouldn't be fighting and yelling and holding press conferences would miles apart. if you have a problem, you sit down with people and work through it. you get in a room and hash lou what the issues and you solve them. in michigan we have done a great job. we have shutdowns in 2007 and in 2009. i came into office in 2011 and we solve the debt question and balanced budget and tax reform. it happen medical many other states, neil. states are showing all these things can be done by people working together. they need to do the same thing in washington bus all us lose with what's going on. there is month winner for what's going on today. and they just immediate to solve this by staying in a room and talking lou it. >> -- through it. >> detractors and, you know, get your heinie out of office like they did with scott walker. you survived that pressure and worked through it. in washington it is not that easy where -- each side really

doesn't trust the other. now the latest offer from democrats and from the president they interviewed this morning i these health care issues you have. first give me a clean cr continuing resolution and i will. modern day version of the ronald reagan trust would verify. they say they don't trust. there we stand. how do we break this logjam? >> again, i would step back. like to go to the family analogy. if we are -- essentially one big family, in michigan, and this country, and isn't that how we should operate the broken culture? when you have a problem with a family member you don't go farther away and yell and scream at them or go out and put -- out on the street and yell to everyone that you have a mess-up in your family. you sit down and talk with people. >> you haven't been with my family. >> it is a lot of it is you shouldn't be doing this through press conferences and news releases. it should be people talking to people. face to face. that's the basic way we handle it in family handle it in a

business. every other part of our life, that's how we handle this problem. we wouldn't do it through federal mechanism. >> that's not -- that's where we stand. let me ask you this. the tea partiers, extreme conservative republicans. they are the one getting blame for this. i don't know if that's fair. mainstream media, that's the way it is. senator mike lee got an earful. he wasn't talking about it with me -- a few minutes ago. he got an earful from a lot of other republicans that he was killing them and maybe killing the party's chances in 2014. what do you make of that? what do you make of this very vocal sect of the republican party. >> i say all of the activity going on now, there are going to be no winners. there are -- there's no way to win. other than solving the problem and moving ahead. >> i know that. >> in addition -- >> will it hurt the party's chances in 2014? many argue it will. >> again, it could happen. it is going to have negative impact often in 2014. in terms of the public's

perception of public sector in terms of how government operates. the impression of government is going downhill every day this goes on and most likely should. this is not acceptable behavior. we are talking about real people here. in michigan i had to furlough or -- should call laying them off. 900 people. good people. that should be working today. and we are going to have programs for the needy that are going to be starting to run out of money in the next two, three weeks. the inning part is they can't shut down the federal government appropriately. >> that's well put. thank you very much. >> great to be with you. for as reckless as a government shutdown is, an economic shutdown that comes with default with america not paying its bills would be dramatically worse. >> we can't have any kind of meaningful negotiations under the cloud of potential default. >> the republicans who are willing to default on paying america's debt. >> threat and willingness to default. >> they would push the button,

throw america into default for first time in history, and risk throwing us back into a recession. >> i do have -- make something clear here. if we go past this debt ceiling, we don't raise it right away and we are -- supposedly on borrowed time, that does not mean we default. tax revenues still come in. no one told you, you stop paying taxes. you still pay taxes. drop-dead deadline debt of october 17 remains. that's date which we are told the government runs out of money and when we run out of money, we can't pay our bills and can't pay our bond holders and default. then we are in a big heap of doo-doo. david stockman says that's total nonsense. it scares people. >> it certainly does. the president is playing the role of calamity howler saying we are going to default and there's armageddon on the other side. the irony is that he's the only one that can cause a default.

>> explain. >> by not prioritizing the revenue when it comes in after he runs out of debt ceiling. we have $250 billion a month of revenue coming in, even in this kind of weak economy. the interest payment per month by contrast $30 billion. he has the power to prioritize, allocate the first dollar to pay the interest. there's never -- there never should be a question that it won't be paid. and then move on and put it into social security or wherever else he needs to while they are negotiating a real solution. >> the only thing that would make you default is if you don't make good on an interest payment. >> if -- >> what if you don't make good on a social security payment? >> if you don't make good on a social security payment they are going to be -- there will be 5 million people not very happy. >> that's not a default. >> that's not a default. the kind of default they are talking about that ricochets through the global financial system is a default on the little bit of $30 billion of interest, not on all the other

government -- >> that's a scare tactic. it is meant really to alarm the other side, get them to the table, alarm folks so it gets them to the table. it is overdone. >> no. it is really designed to intimidate the republican oppositi opposition. it is designed to scare the country, it is a scary bedtime story so that they will basically fold up their tent and raise the debt ceiling, allow the entitlement machine $2.5 trillion of year of spending to continue to roll along. >> what should republicans do? >> republicans should dig in. they are on the verge of finally exposing the great myth big government party loves and that is we have no choice but to raise the debt ceiling and borrow more money. if they hold tough, they can force him total indicate. when heal indicates, somebody isn't going to get paid. maybe some defense contractors. maybe some grants that were supposed to go to a local government. that will create pain. that will create demands for a settlement of the big fiscal

issues and, frankly, for delaying obama care for a year because it is not ready for prime time. >> you actually praise the tea party efforts to peg the two. in other words, even if it meant the leverage of the potential government shutdown. not to welcome a shutdown but they should hang tough. now the -- even fellow republicans are targeting them and saying you nuts that spoiled it for us i think they are making a mistake. again, they are being intimidated by the party line of the beltway. ing the fact is that we don't have a real shutdown going on. there's 3.5 million on the federal payroll. 2.7 million and still reporting for work. 80%. all of the big operations of governor continues, including processing social security checks and the veterans administration and so forth. so -- the point is that it would be a terrible mistake for the republicans to fold now for boehner to engage in one of his patented serial surrenders. okay. >> you dealt with when n the

ronald reagan day and tip o'neill. it has been sort of like -- you know, rose-colored -- years later that they -- you know, struck this personal friendship and, you know, settled big differences, private -- you know, white house quarters. it wasn't all that really -- >> no, no. there was really hardball conflict most of the time. when we had a crisis on a cr, continuing resolution, or a debt ceiling or the big debt -- you know, deficits that opened up. there was a lot of hardball negotiation and give and take. >> there was a shutdown. >> i went lou powthrough four ss myself. the idea our society was $16 trillion in gdp, can't get by a few days when a tiny fraction of the government is shut down, all

entitlements are basketball shut down. when we get to the drop-dead date on the debt ceiling, everything will continue as well. >> i don't think that's a drop-dead date. >> the point is really -- needs to be emphasized. the president is -- the only one and the president alone who can force a default on the interest payment on the debt. he will be required to make that allocation. the dean of liberal professors, law school professors in the country, lawrence tribe, last week, said when all else fails, when you don't have the revenue, you have total indicate, pay the debt, and the interest first, and then do what you can with the remainder. now, he happened to be obama's professor. he called him the brightest student he ever had. i think the president needs to call up his law professor, find out that he has -- he has the power total indica allocate. stop all of the posturing and scare mongering and get down to business and negotiate with the republicans on the -- on the

fundamental problem of we need a budget and we need some control on these huge expenditures. >> dave, always good seeing you. dave stockman. what i love about dave, he gets both parties -- both start writing nasty e-mails. fair and balanced. the president's treasury secretary is set to make the rounds tomorrow morning. despite the fact mr. stockman said you are creating panic where there is none. a former treasury secretary under george bush who says, you know -- david stockman is right. after this. man: sometimes it's like we're still in college. but with a mortgage. and the furniture's a lot nicer. and suddenly, the most important person in my life is someone i haven't even met yet. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners,

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when they start calling the other side names we will interrupt it. we don't think you deserve that and will not tolerate that. john snow is on the phone on the argument that this is one party's fault tore other's fault. regardless, what they are saying, john, is that -- it is going to lead to total financial hell. if we don't get a deal soon default is on the way. you what? >> well, i say that we ought to get this thing resolved. it isn't good for america to be in the situation that we are are with no budget and prospect of public default. the default is really unthinkable. we can't -- shouldn't let that happen. but if it is not going to happen if we are going to avoid it, then the president has to lead. leadership from 1600 pennsylvania avenue.

the president needs to -- it is his role. remember president -- >> have you can hold on. i don't mean to interrupt you. eric cantor, number two republican, is talking right now. >> right to practice your faith and religion would be upheld. as you saw, again, nearly unanimous, on the house floor. and what we are looking at here, again, is that -- an administration, a president, that seems to be unwilling to sit down -- >> all right. we are doing it again. that might be the case. the administration's fault. other slide blame the republican side. we are not the cause of it. we will keep monitoring this. no offense to eric cantor. waste of time. all right. john snow, they are each casting fingers at each other. >> you are doing a real service here to bring commentary on this subject from both sides and tray to find some reasonable sound middle ground. >> what's the middle ground, though? where will -- do you think the

middle ground will be found? >> i think that -- i think we had find mid many ground. we -- we are not going to go forever without a budget. we are not going to let in my view. we are not going to let the default occur. i think what's going to happen here, miele is that the two will get wrapped together. the shutdown and the default prospect coming in october 17. i think they get rolled together. >> that would mean -- that would mean that the -- government shutdown lasts at least through the 17th. at east that's right. that's not the end of the world. we know that. we can survive that. we had long shutdowns before. this will be longer than most. we can survive it. it is not something to be applauded. but i do think that the ingredients for a resolution are taking shape here. and after all, a lot of democrats want that tax on medical devices removed. i think a lot of democrats agree

that -- that -- obama care has a lot of flaws in it. they probably ought to welcome a pause to get things fixed. and the -- president, i think, will find whereas he may now feel that the popular sentiment is against the republicans on the shutdown when it comes to the default. i think they are going to find it -- shoe is on the other foot. >> we will never default. that's one thing i think -- unless you want to be a kamikaze president. >> no. that's the answer. we won't default. that's the answer. we don't default. jack lew and the people around the president are going to say, mr. president, you know, you have to meet them halfway. bill clinton met the republicans halfway. you have to meet -- >> we shall see. >> boehner halfway. >> the secretary, always a pleasure. >> thanks. >> eric cantor still speaking.

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all right. war veterans have been dealing with this government shutdown, trying to visit in this case, world war ii memorial. memorials as well. not being granted access because of the shutdown. fellow trying the to deal with that is lee armstrong. he has been told to be careful. lee, had a -- your guys may be arrested. >> yeah. that's correct. it has been a very hectic week and busy week, including mine

next week. we have been -- i have been fortunate enough to have been in contact from the monument association -- director of the monument. they are willing to work with this. it is going to be fu-- not goin fun. >> withey will be allowed in bu others will not. >> that's true. we were told basically -- guaranteed to get in will. i mean -- i have already talked to everyone the veterans on our flight. they assured me they want to go. her not going to be stopped. i have to be with them. i just can't picture anything happening to them. they have flights scheduled today from other hubs. the government got ourselves in

this situation. i'm usually not polital and stay that way. everybody -- our elected leaders, including the united states, needs to -- it is on the wall. heroic men and women, service of our country, they earned our undying gratitude. america will never forget their sacrifices. i guess that's not true in 2013. >> government shutdown, this type of stuff sadly happens. lee armstrong, thank you. elizabeth, what can you tell us? >> reporter: hi, neil. what we heard from t"the washington post" this morning park rangers have been instructed to make things as difficult for people trying to visit sites like this. some of these barricades are connected by wires here. i will say that there have been groups of veterans coming in throughout the morning and not only from texas but from oregon.

they are having the same experience that a lot of veterans have been having had week. they are flown in from a charity organization called honor pilots. they are getting help from lawmakers to take down these barriers of fighting for access to the memorial only after showing some sort of first amendment activities are they allowed on. we have seen firsthand accounts, park rangers come up to folks very politely and asking them. they are not using force, removing them, but ask them to leave and then close the barricades after them. now i will say we have seen reports across the country that state governor offered to privately fund any of the parks so people can continue to visit them. the department of interior, which heads all of the parks and national parks service, basically saying that cannot happen. that -- the only way these parks are going to be reopened is the fund willing come back through the federal government. i want to leave you with one moat. i did speak with a gentleman from the honor pilots and said october is an incredibly busy month for them. once move hits, it gets very

chilly and then -- sad to say but once springtime hits unfortunately a lot of the brave men and women are month longer with us. back to you. >> elizabeth, thank you very much. i want to go to emanuel. congressman, it seems like they went to a great deal of trouble what is open air, you know, monuments that -- that anyone could walk by. it seems they went to an inordinate expense locking them up or locking them off to the public. do we immediate to do that? i can understand scare space museum the doors, valuable stuff inside. but these are just open air monuments. is that necessary? >> well, i don't think there was any intentionality in terms of trying to make things difficult. what i heard from park rangers is that -- the reason they have done that is because we have had a lot of those monuments in the past defaced.

people have done spray painting on them. if there -- if you give them access without having some areas that they can't go to, there is a fear that will happen again. we had, as you know, many of those monuments have been damaged. but the -- >> that would happen whether the government were open or not. right? >> absolutely. but -- if there is -- traffic going in and out of the area as it has when the -- things are open, there are witnesses. the -- the thing that i think i need to mention is that -- i had -- an honor group coming in from missouri and sam graves and i stood over and watched it. when we saw it being politicized, people trying to get in the way of the camera, the three of us, friends, whether it -- hurt people's feelings or not, we are friends. we got to the side and walked

away. one of the problems we have going here -- i was glad to hear you say earlier, people just blaming each other. i think this is sad. it is sick and you know, you -- a mule can't kick and pull the wagon at the same time. all we have right now are -- mules that are kicking. and until we come to the conclusion that the public is hurting, whether it is the park, whether it is the nih, whether it is bringing in new people with -- social security or medicare, you know, we are -- not serving the public. >> then congressman, would you be open then in these times where, you know, it is all or nothing, a lot of these negotiations, but you would be open then to funding these things? to allow these walkable monuments, open air monuments, accessible to the public, so you can walk up to them, and -- or the nih funding that's become the source of concern for a lot

of folks, allow them to keep getting their funding while you work the broader details out. the democratic leadership senate seems to be saying it is all or nothing. settle differences on bigger scores. is that a possibility to you? >> it would -- who determines what we should fund first? who determines what -- >> you mentioned the nih. then -- some of the republican colleagues may mention the -- memorials. i'm hardly in a position to judge which is -- more important. that would be a start. that maybe that would -- hint of a negotiation and resolution of some of the bigger issues. >> that might work, miele. except that there is -- this whole atmosphere that has been created around winning and losing. and -- somebody who -- gave in first and that kind of thing. that's all you hear on the news. so -- i don't know -- if that would work.

i mean -- you know, the cdc -- i'm here. i go to work here every day. but i'm not sure that i want to try to pick something to be funded. when, you know, i have been talking with my republican friends and i -- i don't mean this friendship stuff they sigh the floor. my friend in -- i'm talking about i have some real friends. they are saying, look, you know, if -- if the -- they come to the floor, it is going to prove -- be approved overwhelmingly. everybody up here knows that. >> a lot of people are disputing that the way it is worded. you could be right. it is always a pleasure, sir good talking to you. >> very much. a lot of people say what brings downgrade, what could get us downgraded? is what i told you just this. the way this consistently plays out. nearly 2,000 times we had shutdowns over the course of the last few decades. that is what brings a downgrade. we are just begging for one right now. after this. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004.

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this is the scene -- on capitol hill. look at the showoff. he is sitting in the front. but he is the best. this will be the democrats turn now to essentially, i assume, bash the republicans. live with nancy pelosi and democratic house leadership talk about where we stand now in this. my rule of thumb is if they start calling the other side names, whether they think it is valid or not, just when the republican side thought it was valid or not, we are going to stop because we figure that -- that gets old. real fast. it is like one step away from saying i'm rubber, you are glue. whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. this is fine more my 11 and 12-year-old sons but it is not feign for our leaders. i figure we don't have time for that nonsense. in the meantime, the government may be shut but workers will still get paid because the house just voted 407-0.

28 members weren't there. to give the furloughed workers pay. now the -- poll numbers. approval rating is at 41%. lowest level in two years. the house says -- house's approval rating is half that. karen may not be packing as much punch. tropical storm is managing the shoutdown, the number of oil and gas riggs. they downgraded it the last time for the dysfunction in d.c. what's being said about it? my next guest knows. marie cavanaugh. to say this woman has lot of pressure on her, but she a very cool cucumber. very good having you. >> thank you. >> talking about the dysfunction in washington. that comes into play when you guys -- rate a sovereign country and its debt. right? >> yes.

the -- brinkmanship we see is the primary reason the rate sing no longer triple-a. standard & poors lowered it two years ago. t . >> when did you do it then? >> all of our ratings -- all of the the sovereign ratings follow published data. we look at a broad range of factors. institutional and governance peckiveness. our view is that this -- brinkmanship -- there's always been debate around these sorts of -- in these times and around these sorts of issues. and our view -- becomes more acrimonious and more extreme. >> is it any less so now? >> perhaps not. rate rings different now. ratings -- we didn't think that is consistent with the triple-a rating. double-a plus rating, it is -- we do believes the consistent because we are weighing that against many of the -- enormous credit strengths of the united

states. >> at the time when i was covering your downgrade, not yours specifically, but s&p's the people would criticize it saying don't had they know we can print more money? were are they making a big deal about this? i said, well, that illustrates our problem. and maybe illustrates your mood. our best defense against having our credit rating lowered is we can print our way out of it. >> well, we are looking at a broad range of factors. certainly the fact that the u.s. has the world 'premier reserve currency is as an important credit strength. it is a product of strong institutions, leaving aside what's going on now. a very strong institution with respect for the rules of law, property rights and rule of law, and just -- an environment that encourages innovation and where you see stronger economic growth and -- even in recent years than in many other countries. so -- while -- there is an

ability to print money but the rating process is more complicated than that. just printing money -- >> what -- >> that's not something that's actually a factor. >> fine. but do you find at least curious that s&p is the only premier ratings firm looking -- you know, down a gun? presumably over what you guys might have missed rating paper -- ahead of the meltdown, but -- other firms did the same thing. movies and -- host of others. you are the only got that. i'm wondering if that has anything to do with the downgrade and whether you are being punished for it. >> i work on the analytical side. i-can't comment on that. it is a whole different -- >> you don't find it odd? >> there's a group at standard & poors i could put new touch with. the ratings -- as i mentioned before, very high. double-a plus. we dent to stable earlier this year because of some of the compromises that have occurred

and avoided the fiscal cliff because there have been a tremendous amount of deficit reduction over the last would years. >> that's rue. >> that's -- there has been a lot of compromise and -- we think that -- you know, we -- think there -- enormous challenges, particularly on the fiscal side but enormous strengths. >> marie cavanaugh, thank you very much. some of the other things we are looking at -- these excuse this come up with the -- in the middle of a shutdown. warning that -- it could impact their sales. it is like -- the dog ate my homework excuse. sandra smith back with us from chicago. gary, what do you make of that? a lot of the companies that are already saying the shutdown is going to be a problem for us and it is going to impact us. it could be an excuse du jour, couldn't it? >> oh, yes. we are heading into earnings season now in the market and --

if any company is going to warn or company will have bad numbers, you can be rest assured that there will be a blame game and had is just as good as an excuse as any to use p i have to tell you, i don't think it affects the economy that much. if it lasts a very long time, maybe. in the short run i think everybody is going to work and people are buying and selling. i think it is business as usual out there. >> sandra, i can see a lockheed martin or united technologies, talking about civilian defense layoffs that would be directly impacted by the military. beyond that, it gets a little iffy. doesn't it? >> yeah. you know, we are -- we are all a fan of private enterprise here. we are a fan of capitalism and these are privilege at companies, miele, that have an obligation to their shareholders and to protect their bottom line. these are companies that are looking at the uncertainty and -- bickering in washington and saying, they are looking out into the future and saying, this is what we have to do to answer our shareholders and for the

benefit of our company. it is almost like you want to jest and say the government should take a note from this. while they have been facing uncertainty and while they have been facing still a slow recovery, they have been adding to the government work force. so it is somewhat ironic and these companies are looking at the situation, higher health care costs and higher taxes. excuses are not, neil. this is what they say they have to do in this weak economic environment. >> i think you have to be careful not to be too literal with this. you can certainly make an argument that the shutdown itself is not -- does not put so many people out of work and it would have this impact on sales. but it does create a mental problem, if you will. it does put people in a primary much mind of uncertainty and you have the debt issue coming up. i think people get araid and get worried about spending because they don't know what is coming. this is where i think the psychological damage may be more -- do more harm than the money out of your pocket damage. >> what if it is a flip side and, gary, we realize it goes on for a couple of weeks or goes on

a little longer than we thought? a lot of people say i haven't been impacted, life goes on. it could boomerang. don't you think people could be reminded maybe we have too much government? >> well, the two key words, duration and confidence, the longer this goes on -- >> let me interrupt you. nancy pelosi is speaking. i want to hear what she is saying. >> on seven different occasions the republican party has not taken yes for an answer. >> here we go. i cannot believe this. seconds into it, it is already republican party. i'm going to interrupt her. we are going nowhere fast with this. each side is, you know, lucifer. the other side isn't getting anything. she is calling names. we are not going to get anywhere with calling names. that's why we pull out of it. unless anyone has anything construct turf sa-- constructiv

to say, we leave them. if they go on with this type of monday sense and finger pointing we are not going to go anywhere and the mark lets have something to worry about, right? >> well, and we -- the markets have shown that they are resilient and looking at what's happened in the past, that eventually something gets resolved and stock market continues on and as we have seen, in fact, goes on to rally after something gets resolved. at this point in time, when you continue to see, as nancy pelosi just did, continues finger pointing in washington, blame game, consumers, investors, you name it and they get sick and tired of it. the big question becomes how long is this going to go on? that's going to leave the markets in limbo for sure. >> all right. guys, thank you very much. some of you on the left and some of you on the right get offended when we do stuff like that. we are running out of excuses and blame. some people think i'm slightly overweight, that it is a thyroid condition. i can go and tell you that. but it is not. all right.

and when -- each side blames the other side for problems, they are not addressing, game over. that's not the problem. they are. both sides are. more after this. to make their money do more. (ann) to help me plan my next move, i take scottrade's free, in-branch seminars... plus, their live webinars. i use daily market commentary to improve my strategy. and my local scottrade office guides my learning every step of the way. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates.

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call today and make the switch to the aarp auto insurance program from the hartford. all right. heir -- new call for lawmakers to loosen up and kick back and have maybe a few shots of tequila together. maybe that's what can get this thing solved in washington. john joins us now out of los angeles. i have to tell you, john, the more i see what's going on in and the name calling, the -- less i'm confident that they are even closer to a deal. maybe it is the budget process and the way we go through

things, limp along to the next one and never solve anything. what do you think? >> that's correct. you are 100% correct. we have -- a couple of parties there, unfortunately, who aren't governing and hired them to govern but not governing. we want them to govern like they should. that means talk to one another. i understand it was only recently that our president talked to congress. well, he should have talked to congress months ago. but right now they should talk to one another. that's the answer. as you say, to get a good day going, you can start out in the morning and get a nice cup of coffee and put some coffee in there, sip it and feel better and have a smile on your face and then -- try to figure it out. something good came out of this. the day after this all started a few days ago, it was on the news, something quite interesting. i'm into protecting the environment and everybody knows that. they talked about the epa. the epa will not shut down. they have 1,000 people that will run it very effectively but they

are going to furlough 10,000 people. the commentator said, wait a minute, a thousand run it. you are furloughing 10,000 people. are all of them getting their jobs back? or a few not going to get their jobs back because they really are overstaffed? well, in my mind it was this. it is a lesson going to be learned, should somebody be fired from their job? no. these are people that depend on our government and way of life to survive. had shouldn't be fired. but when they switching positions, they should not rehire. they should get some of the other people there to be able to do that job because maybe only need 8,000 people, for sure you don't need 11,000. >> you do have a lot of people considered nonessential. when you run a business, how many of your people are not essential? >> we don't have any like that. in other words, somebody should be responsible. that's the whole thing. if you're not essential, why do you have your job? do we go out and fire people? no. but through attrition we could

double our jobs. that's what i do with my company. >> understood. >> some have 5,000 and end up with only 1,000 but they get the job done and they never lose their job. they're sebessential. >> he, too, is name calling. huh...fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. yep, everybody knows that. well, did you know the ancient pyramids were actually a mistake? uh-oh. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know.

i don't know what i started, i'm getting a lot of e-mails on my decision to just stop. that's what has been happening when they start name calling. i know you caught the mikes of republicans and democrats. would you do the same to the president of the united states? actually we did when we were getting the ap bites from the president. as soon as he went into the him basting republicans, we cut the mike short. i think our goal was just to understand what he was saying

about the debt limit but as soon as he veered into talking about republicans we just cut it off there. so we're a fair and balanced arbiter of bs. i apologize if you are anded on the right or left but we're trying to get things done here. chad, still more name calling on the right or left, not much sol solve. >> not much happened. this is the effort to show the folks, hey, we'll pay federal employees when we get the government back open. we don't know when. in 1995 there was some dispute over that. ernest, republican congressman from oklahoma at the time, when the shutdowns happened in 1995 we he wrote the then speaker of the house newt gingrich and said we shouldn't pay the federal employees because they haven't done any work. with this unanimous vote in the house of representatives this morning the feeling this time around is much different than mid 1990s. i'm told by a senior senate source the senate when it comes in here, n. a couple of minutes at some point this afternoon will ask his consent, meaning

all senators have to agree, to also pay the federal employees. this is about the only work they're doing today. >> so how long do you think this is going to drag on, chad? >> well, the house republicans have tee'd up a series of bills next week to fund portionses of federal government. much like they've been doing this past week. when you get through a lot of that they're up to almost $300 billion in federal spending. that's about a third of the total to open the federal government. that's significant. it will be interesting because the senate will have not passed any of these. senate majority leader harry reid has been consistent in saying he doesn't approaeciate this piecemeal approach, all or nothing, same thing with the president. we have a debt ceiling issue coming down the pike as well. >> chad, thank you very much. okay. again, we're watching the name calling continue. a lot of people think, my view is when they act childish we've got to stop it. when my own children, 11 and 12-year-old boys come up to me, what the heck, why not be late

on our homework, the congress is. what example are we showing? what kind of example are our leaders showing? this isn't just about our money. this is about our very soul and backbone. and we're ridiculous. i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there. to book this fabulous hotel. michael, tell us why you used priceline express deals well you can see if a hotel is pet-friendly be and i got a great deal without bidding. and where's your furry friend? i don't have a cat. save up to 50% during priceline's fall hotel sale.

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it doesn't make any sense. if the president has an ax to grind with the opposing party, why he would want to put the american people in the middle of that and force the pain on them. >> we have substantively accepted that they are offering. we have procedurally tried to accommodate and allay their concerns. >> stalemate now bleeds into a fifth day. both the house and the congress are in session. did the gop play the wrong hand in this fight? mike huckabee will tell us