this is a fox news alert. u.s. forces conducting two major terrorism raids today. here with the latest is national security correspondent, jennifer griffin. >> judge, here's what we can confirm. there were two raids carried out by elite special forces in two different countries today targeting the leader of al-shabab in somalia, an al qaeda operative who has been on the list for bombings in tanzania for years. the first raid was in a seaside town in somalia. s.e.a.l.s came ashore and killed

one individual at a villa where multiple al-shabab high-level targets were supposed to be. these are individuals wanted in connection with the kenyan mall attack that left dozens dead last week in kenya. a shoot-out ensued when s.e.a.l.s entered the villa and the s.e.a.l.s were unable to bring the body with them, so positive identification of who was killed in that raid is impossible. the second secret operation occurred just hours later in tripoli, the capital of libya, where an elite team swooped in and captured alive abu anas al-liby. we are told he'll be read his rights by an elite fbi unit sent out to read him his rights. the justice department plans to prosecute him in a u.s. court. all in all, quite a day for u.s. special operations forces. back to you in new york, judge jeanine. >> jennifer, thanks.

with me right now is terrorism analyst eric stackleback and former navy s.e.a.l. jonathan gillian. tell us about the significance of al-shabab, while they cannot confirm the identity, we do know the individual was a high value target in al-shaba sfwhrks. >> yeah, judge, it shows that al-shabab is becoming a major player in the jihad and u.s. officials have taken notice of that group. that mall attack last year was a real game changer, and the main reason it's gotten u.s. officials attention and that they want to send the message to al-shabab there's a real fear that an attack can happen here. judge, everyone watching needs to remember that dozens over the past few years, dozens of somali-americans have traveled to somalia to train with al-shabab. these are u.s. citizens with u.s. passports and they can return to america when they get here with all bets off.

many somalis live in minneapolis where we have the mall of america, the largest mall in the united states. so right now we are trying to send a message to al-shabab that that is a resilient movement and it will take a persistent effort to keep them down. >> that's good news, and at the same time, eric, when you think about the murder of anyone who was not a muslim and the brutal way in which they were murdered is certainly something that i'm sure will cause us to act as quickly as we could. jonathan gillian, former navy s.e.a.l., what do you know about this, jonathan? >> what i'm hearing from my contacts is there were strategic hits. these were planned hits, not necessarily something thought up overnight. typically these are the type of raids they do day in and day out, but it seems very extreme because of the high-value targets. but these s.e.a.l.s and special operators going in there, they are so good at doing these things and they've trained so hard, their standard operating

procedures are so good whenever it comes time to do these things, it is pretty fluid. we are looking at unconventional war fair. that's a tactical assault to affect the strategic outcome. and you will see a diminished effect of their attacks in somalia. >> so this is in somalia, the take down of this al-shabab guy. they could not take his body out, what does that tell you? >> well, typically when we run into things like that, it has to do with either a crime scene of what's going on or we don't really have as good as a relationship with some countries as we would with kenya, for instance. we have an incredible relationship with them. >> but not somalia. >> probably not somalia. >> this guy from 1998, you just saw him on the screen, he had a $5 million bounty on his head. now, 1998, that was a long time ago, those embassy bombings were, and what does this tell the rest of the world about america at this point?

>> well, i think in one sense, judge, it's good that we finally got justice, we finally got this guy, but on the other hand, it's a question of what took you so long? he's been living in tripoli, libya, since 2009, judge, in a nice neighborhood. this brings up another point, we have the greatest special forces in the world, we saw it today in somalia and the raid in tripoli. judge, why can't we get the men behind benghazi? why can't we send s.e.a.l.s in to libya to get those. >> we are all concerned about that, but kudos to the lead special operative forces, what they do every day for all of us. and i understand that we now have former united states attorney general, judge michael mckazie on the phone. >> yes. >> it's the decision to try to

try him in federal court in new york. your thoughts? >> well, it's another indication that we really aught to have an interrogation program. the man is under indictment, at some pint he aught to be tried, but before he's tried we need to find out what he knows. and the administration has scrapped the interrogation program, as a result of which, although he may be interrogated, i don't know what the program is, and i don't know how long it is before we get him over here. >> we just heard there was an elite fbi group going to interrogate him. how is that different from the cia interrogation unit you reference? >> the one with the fbi is very different and the techniques are different from what the cia could do. >> all right. i'm here onset, judge, with someone nodding his head to what you're saying. stay with us. jonathan, why were you nodding? >> what you are seeing in these areas is a political choking off

of the typical tactics that would be used in past to where it becomes very, very difficult to actually go out and interrogate individuals, there's so many rules of engagement that do not work effectively, and it all comes back to politics, which is funny because it comes back, these individuals are out there working while people that are failing them in washington are the same people that are failing them by setting up policies that strangle-hold them in their country. >> if the fbi starts the conversation by warning them of their miranda rights, obviously that's not designed effective and will not bring forth a lot of information. >> judge, you have been on this show before and we have talked about this, giving -- okay, this guy has been, you know, on the lamb, although people are telling us he's been in one place for years. >> apparently he was living

openly as were others. >> okay. and now we want to give him his right to remain silent. doesn't this interfere with our ability to, you know, show the rest of the world that we're serious about this. some people would treat this as a military case and not a civilian criminal trial? >> right. i think that once we get him, the important thing to find out is whatever it is that he knows. the trial can wait. the important thing is to get whatever intelligence he's got on possibly ongoing operations. >> well, certainly we hope that that happens. judge mukasey, thank you for being with us. eric and jonathan, we'll stay on this and we very much appreciate you coming in tonight. and coming up, my opening statement on the rise of lawlessness and chaos in america. and something you won't want to miss, mom, you can't watch this. i get on a motorcycle to give

you a firsthand look at what happened the day the biker gang assaulted a father in front of his wife and 2-year-old. ♪

this past sunday america's largest city stopped being the

sophisticated culture cosmopolitan capital of the world and instead turned into the wild west. but this time there's no billy the kid, no doc holiday, wyatt earp and no john wayne to save the day. just a terrified family, a city on edge and a fearful society. there was a time in our history when families would decisively settle wrongs among themselves. frontier justice was meated out by one's kin. >> if you two don't decide what's happening between you, hell could consume both our families. >> we are talking about starting a civil war. >> but as we advanced, we rejected vigilante justice in our society. and in exchange for our agreement not to take the law into our own hands, the government promised to protect its citizens and punish

criminals. this is the social contract forged in civilized societies. but are we really civilized? as of late it seems that lawlessness and chaos are not the exception but rather the rule. that it's every man for himself, that we have the right to avenge whatever wrongs we perceive are visited upon us. human suffering rendered irrelevant. three oklahoma teens kill an australian college student just for the fun of it. children randomly shot on playgrounds in chicago who don't even run at the sound of gunfire. a student beatdown on a school bus as the bus driver and others watch, not bothering to intervene. a navy yard shooter reloading to pick off a few more victims as though it were a video game. this seems to be an awful moment

in our history. right and wrong seem no longer relevant. political correctness has replaced the scales of justice, and that correctness seems always to be wrong. it's wrong to call the gunning down of our military men and women workplace violence when the shooter is muslim and screams "allah akbar." and this week, a man with his family on a sunday afternoon ride, he's surrounded by a swarm of bikers looking to take over the road for impromptu stunts that they videotape just for the thrill of it. one biker pulls in front of the driver, looks back, and deliberately brakes causing the resulting chaos. and so the spin begins.

the biker runover by the driver was simply looking to flee the assault on his vehicle and family claims he is the victim. he's riding illegally, he has no license, and he's designated by his own state as a habitual traffic offender. and how about this one? the group says they were just out for a bike ride, which is total hogwash. most had license plates that were bogus or not visible. they were looking to shut down a major highway and threatening anyone who had the audacity to not move for them. and then they chase him and beat him down in front of his terrified family. still, they claim they're not at fault. accountability seems no longer relevant. excuses are the norm. consequences rarely imposed. but should we even be surprised? in this country, people are

rewarded for not working. many feel entitled to government assistance even if they are home watching tv. i.r.s. employees who target political opponents are given bonuses. veterans administration employees years behind in their assessment of the claims of men and women in the military are given bonuses. and are you angry that others are more successful than you? why not start an occupy wall street? take over a park, interfere with traffic, rape a few women and cause the taxpayers millions in cleanup. in washington, no exception. it's total chaos in this latest government shutdown. the president and his administration accusing the imposing party of terrorism, having bombs strapped to their chest and holding a gun to the heads of americans. accountability?

the president himself has never answered whether he issued the order to protect americans in benghazi. and there seems to be no conscience anymore, no shame. a ruthless disregard for fellow human beings. and with the cloak of anonymity that the internet provides, people bullied to the point where their targets commit suicide. it's as if there are no social restraints. that herd mentality excuses all anti-social and destructive behavior. the lack of civility, accountability and responsibility always seems accompanied by the apologist and the sense of entitlement. and you can always rely on the manual that explains the way all anti-social behavior is a mental problem. it's time to stop deceiving ourselves. we are living in a time of

lawlessness and chaos. we want to believe in the goodness of each other, but none of the social restraints are ever imposed. and therefore they are simply ignored. it's time to stop being politically correct and start being morally right before we lose every semblance of the civil society we fought so hard to create. now, i'm a pretty tough new yorker, and i'm worried. and if i'm worried, you need to be worried. coming up, new developments in the biker gang attack. you're not going to believe who was part of that group. and i head out on the open road. you're not going to want to miss this one. ♪

the attack on a family by a biker gang all caught on tape was shocking. the latest development on the investigation coming up. but first, retired nypd pat brosnon took me out. take a look. we are here on the west side highway going north in the approximate vicinity of where leon was at the time of the initial accident with cruz, or cruz was in front of him on a motorcycle. it's an approximate location like this that apparently the other bikers got off and started

flashing or slashing his tires and trying to get into his range rover. lien made the decision to runoff with his family. we are not going to get out on our bikes, but we are going to retrace the steps from 116th street to 178th street which was the chase that ensued after lien tried to take off with his wife and 2-year-old in the range rover. >> talk about lawlessness, they act like they're controlling the entire highway. and they take all three anes. you know, traditional motorcyclists, you take one lane. center, middle or right lane, and vehicular traffic continues. they wanted to dominate here. and what appears to have happened is that mr. lien somehow got into their group,

unbeknownst to him, and that's when the friction started and here's what the guy did. i'm going to demonstrate right here. and now we hit the brakes. >> he actually looked back to stop. >> initially they were taunting other vehicles, so they're probably going in the 50 to 60 range, but when the range rover took off to flee for his life with his little 2-year-old, then they were picking up. so i would say it's about a six to nine minute ride. >> so it's approximately in this spot where the motorcycle stopped again. what happened? >> exactly right. this was the second chapter of this nightmare. right here, getting onto the entrance of the g.w., the bikes swarmed him again, jumped off their bikes, a couple guys, and one of them was able to tear open the door of his range rover. >> so they had him stopped again? >> they had him stopped and closed in front of him.

they grabbed his door, pulled the door and tried to grab him out. he took off with his door open, as the tape demonstrates. >> all right. so he takes off again. let's retrace those steps. >> sure. >> okay. >> so we're here at 178th street, four blocks from the west side highway going north. lien in the range rover came to a stop here, whether it was because of a red light or the fact that all of his tires had been slashed, it's at this point where he is pulled out of the range rover and assaulted. i'm here with a former new york city detective in my ride today, who can tell us about what happened at this point. >> what happened that the point, obviously, was that we are four blocks from west side highway. the tires were slashed, he's running flat, he couldn't go no further. he has the 2-year-old and the wife in the vehicle. the guys get off their bikes again, they are swarming, but this time he can't take off, unlike the g.w. when he was able

to take off. >> what's interesting, even as we are here today, this is a residential area, there are a lot of people here, this poor guy is trying to get through. i mean, he could kill people. there are a lot of people walking around. >> the reality is you can never outrun bikes. they are always going to catch the car. they finally have him cornered here, he's trapped. the guy takes a helmet just like this. a full-face helmet. >> i have to tell you, that's heavy. i'm here to attest that it's heavy. >> he takes the helmet just like this and you can see almost like a sledgehammer, two guys break the driver's side window and the window immediately behind the driver's side rear and then they dragged him out and assaulted him. up next, pat joins me here in studio. where there undercover cops in the motorcycle gang who stood by and did nothing? and then, did they or didn't they target dr. ben carson? find out why the worldwide

pediatric neurosurgeon believes he was on the i.r.s. hit list for comments made at a prayer breakfast. and remember to vote in our instant poll. the shutdown between the suv and the motorcycle gang. who's to blame? facebook or tweet me at judge jeanine.$5

million reward for information leading to his capture. a big day in terrorism. now justice. again, you can see here now, behind us, how all the cars are laying back. and we're only going 50 miles an hour. none of the cars are passing us. which i think demonstrates that people -- i think this hit a raw chord with a lot of people. >> you can see how easy it was for us to shut down traffic on a major new york road. and we only had three bikes. many of these biker gangs number

in the hundreds. so what happens if you find yourself surrounded on the road? with me my motorcycle buddy, former nypd detective pat brosnan and steve is here with us as well. what do you find yourself with these dirt bags? >> i liked the bike. self-preservation, and particularly when there's a 2-year-old and the baby's mother in the car. he had to flee, he did precisely what anybody reasonable person, including me who is armed, would have done the exact same thing. >> we hear these guys are doing this, these guys are pop-up whatever, and they do this in major cities where they are doing all these stunts. they intimidate the motor vehicles on their bike and videotape wit a camera on their helmet. what's that about? >> i have seen the same crew in

miami. they wheelie and do these stoppies, a reverse-wheelie, and they want to get in front of the cars by suppressing vehicular traffic. as you saw yesterday, judge, the way you suppress vehicular traffic with just three bikes, you just stay in three lanes. the cars aren't going to pass you. >> it was stunning. i turned around and there were loads of cars behind us and in front of us it was completely open. and that's with three bikes. >> three. >> steve, you're a lawyer here, what we've got is we've got this guy taking off, he's got his family in the car, runs over a guy who's paralyzed, okay? they say he's going to be paralyzed, and who says he's the victim? i'm not going to ask you, because he's not! do you think -- he's going to sue the range rover. and does he win? >> he's certainly going to sue. and you know who his attorney is, by the way, so there's no question about that. will he win? it doesn't appear that he can win. i'll tell you what, though, let

me say, i don't think he will win against the driver of the suv. however, if it does turn out that this criminal liability for the individual who forced the suv to stop, there is a theory to go after that individual for the injuries that he sustained because he created the environment. >> that was christopher cruz who stopped his bike right in front of the range rover, but if they're all part of this gang that has a uniform intent to stop traffic and do these stunts, isn't he considered kind of an accomplice to cruz? >> absolutely. >> yet he's going to use cruz as his excuse to sue? >> he can use cruz as well as the others. a countless liability makes him equally liable if all the other riders. >> we find out today new york city cops in this biker group. and let me make one thing perfectly clear, cops on bikes are lawful, follow the rules,

and i think these guys are without a doubt, or women, i don't know what they are, are clearly the exception. what's going to happen to cops who were involved in this group breaking the window, watching the beat-down of this guy, what happens? >> they have a lot of accounting to do. they will be looked at extensively in direct relations to the patrol guy. you must report. you have to report when it is feasible and safe. they saw a criminal act if their presence and did nothing. and moreover they didn't report it. >> what about the undercover guy who is right there when the father is dragged out of the range rover, he said, i don't want to blow my cover. i'm going to give him the benefit of your doubt. here's the problem, he waited three days to report. what does that tell you, pat? >> he's also going to have a lot of explaining to do. whether or not his undercover capacity related directly to this gang -- >> he says he was off-duty. but i don't care. >> the jury is out on that. it's immaterial. the issue at hand is why he

didn't report for 72 hours. a serious breach and direct violation of procedure. >> all right. and, steve, i understand that the mother started making calls, 911 calls at 1:52, and that stretch of road that pat and i covered yesterday took us how long? >> took us seven minutes. >> okay. during the course of eight or nine minutes, she made four 911 calls. no police response. >> right. >> liability here? >> well, liability to the city would be very difficult, but it could be argued because, look, there's hundreds, there's at least a hundred bikers on the road here closing down the road. there's reasons for the police to react, even without the 911 call. once you start interjecting 911, and this is precisely what it is there for, to intervene in situations like this. they don't respond the first time, the second time, third and fourth, but it will be very hard to directly link their liability. however, what's more likely to be an issue for the police, is this is a public relations nightmare for them.

>> forget the public relations nightmare, what about the fact, that this woman is desperately calling for help. you have the precincts there along the west side highway. highway cops, nobody's there. that's a problem? >> well, problem from what regard? >> for the nypd, why aren't they sending people out? >> it's a public relations nightmare, but i don't know they don't send them out. it goes through command when they dispatch. keep in mind, judge, that 55 of these motorcycles were compounded and vouchered in times square. >> what it means is the pd knew they were coming. by the way, nypd apparently has a policy that you don't chase bikers because in the end it's the innocent bystander that gets killed, but i want to call for a license plate. do we have that license plate sign? >> you can see here on this bike, when i power up my bike,

that plate comes down from underneath the fender. it's a hydraulic plate. what happens with these guys is, as you can see, the plate goes up under here. you power it on -- >> and the license plate comes out. >> correct. but they have an additional switch. it is up on the column right by the dash. it is an accessory switch. while they're riding, they can retract the plate. that's the difference. >> so they don't have -- >> that's illegal. they don't have to turn it off. i have to turn it off for the plate to go up. >> interesting there. we know the bikers primarily -- they didn't have plates that were visible and have this hydraulic feature. >> you can see that in the tape. not only do they have plates on the bikes, but some of the bikes i recognized the hydraulic feature, which is illegal. that and a full-face helmet. where's your identification? >> does that tell you what the intent is from the get-go? >> it probably does indicate they are up to no good. >> no bus. pat, steve, thank you for being

with us. feather in the cap of lois learner? find out what the i.r.s. did after speaking out against obama care. and the suv versus the biker gang, who do you think is to blame? facebook or tweet me @judgejeanine.

here's my solution, when the person is born, give them a birth certificate and electronic medical record and a health savings account. we already have this huge pot of money.

instead of sending it to a bureaucracy, let's put it in their hsa's. >> president obama was standing just a few feet away. shortly after that speech, our friendly neighborhood i.r.s. started to look into dr. carson's finances? convin coincidence? here's dr. carson with bill o'reilly? >> what did the i.r.s. want? >> they wanted to investigate some investment property i had and came and found that all the i's were dotted and all the t's were crossed. then they said, let's look at another year. and that was okay. formally. >> maybe it is just a coincidence, though. >> well, let's put it this way, i have never had anything before this with the i.r.s., and nothing has changed. so the only thing that changed -- >> they didn't give you any

penalties or anything, they just went through your stuff. so you really believe you criticized the president's policies at the prayer breakfast that the i.r.s. was given a little, hey, why don't you give him a little jab? >> whether that was the case or not, the fundamental issue here is the freedom of our citizens is being threat upped. and last time i checked there was a first amendment that involved free speech in our count ci coffin city tugs bconstitution nobody has told the president that. kelly, i'm going to start with you, what say you, is dr. carson another i.r.s. target or is this just something that happens? >> i don't think anything just happens with this i.r.s. they have admitted lois lerner has admitted they were targeting people in the cincinnati office who had tea party or conservative in their name, denying them their rightful

non-for-profit tax status, but quickly i think there are three scandals here. you have a law-abiding taxpayer who is a neurosurgeon who has saved countless lives, you have a recipient being harassed because of his beliefs. if he was a democrat, they would scream racism. but i think he's being targeted in how he embarrassed the president. and nobody in the main stream is talking about it, they are ignoring it completely. number three, this is the same i.r.s. who will start to implement obama care. no wonder there have been glitches and problems in the first couple days. >> all right, you're shaking your head and laughing. >> i have to tell you, judge, just because there's correlation there's no causation here. at the end of the day -- >> everything is coincidence? >> i would say it is coincidental. not only did the i.r.s. investigate groups from the right but groups from the left.

>> how many, two on the left and 100 on the right? >> they were still investigated. >> you will cop seed that point then. the vast majority were the political opponents of the president. >> in 2004 under the bush i.r.s. they audited the naacp, so -- >> yeah, okay, that was one. and what about the fact that all of these -- kelly, i'll let you answer. >> they actually said it was, quote, inadvertent. what's really troubling here is recently it was revealed that the i.r.s. released the names of the national donor of marriage, they are traditional marriage. not only did they release the list of donors for non-for-profit organizations, but they released them to their political opponent. the head of the h.r.c. left the human rights campaign to be a co-chair of the obama campaign. that's a coincidence, too? at least admit it and say, we won the election, we are going to --

>> i'm a prosecutor and don't believe in coincidences. lois lerner is now retired and she said say were targeting employees. what's worse is you have all these people from the i.r.s. meeting with the president right before the inspector general's report comes out. which report the president only heard about on the news. >> this is a continuing -- the focus needs to be on how we get our government working again, how we get more people under the affordable health care act, and that's the conversation that we should be having. >> don't even go there. have you done it? >> i've been on the website. >> okay. >> how old are you? >> i'm 26. >> do you have health care? >> i do have health care. >> through your employer or by yourself? >> i have it through my employer, but i have a lot of friends who have it and many systems have a glitch. many systems have a glitch and

you fix it. that's what we see from this president. and i think dr. carson will agree we can continue to give more money -- >> the republicans are funding it and the democrats voted against it. hold on. just this week, just this week every democrat in the house except for 35 of them voted against funding the nih. >> ted cruz and his buddy shut the government down. >> how do you feel about the fact that the president of the united states and the administration talks about republicans having bombs strapped to their chest. who talks like that? >> a man who won't negotiate. he said it's negotiable -- >> at the end of the day, ted cruz went on a dead-end path to try to repeal obama care. >> where is the president tonight? >> thank you for being with us tonight. coming up, the latest on the

newlywed who pushes her husband to his death off a cliff. and it's your last chance to sound off in our instant poll. the suv versus the biker gang. road rage runner-up amuck? who is to blame, facebook or tweet me

and now for the latest on the story you've seen right here on justice. jordan graham, a newlywed bride accused of pushing her husband cody johnson off the cliff just four days after saying "i do" pled not guilty to murder charges. she claims his death was an

accident. the next hearing is scheduled for october 15th. we are back with attorney steve razor. all right, steve, is this a case of she says he can't say because he's at the bottom of the cliff? >> unfortunately she's said enough to convict herself. >> she has? what did she say? >> she admitted to pushing him off the cliff and doing it out of anger. and she also defeated any possibility of a self-defense claim by saying that he moved away from him, he turned around, his back was to her, she could have walked away but didn't and out of anger pushed him off the cliff. >> did she push him out of anger? >> she did. she said she was angry and couldn't control herself. basically she set up a manslaughter, so-called manslaughter defense in that. that is what ultimately the d.a., i'm sorry, the federal government here, the u.s. attorney's office is going to be able to prove. >> all right. and there are those who say that

this is really a self-defense case, that, you know, that she's going to claim that he pushed her first and that, you know, she pushed him back. >> nonsense. it's not going to happen. >> it's not based on the facts. they argue nonsense all the time. >> assuming that the statements are true, if she's going to try to challenge the statements. >> we know she's a liar because at first she said she didn't know where he was and then decided to go look at that particular cliff. >> well, okay, that's very much true. and that's the thing, in this case, if you believe the statements, she's guilty, she defeats her self-defense claims. regardless of whatever their relationship was, like you said, they went up on this cliff together, apparently without any fear on her part. she's the one that pushed him off. she said, remember, she could have walked away, not that she could have ran away, she could have walked away and chose not to. that's a big problem. >> thank you for being with us, tonight. >> thank you, judge. now it's time to reveal the results from tonight's instant poll. we asked you who is at fault, the suv driver or the biker

gang? we had more responses than ever. almost 10,000. most believe the bikers are at fault. bobby writes, bikers, motorcyclists, anyone else would have done the same thing. mob mentality does not equal intelligence. josephine says the poor suv driver must have been out of his mind with fear for his family. but a few others saw differently. kathleen writes, if the suv driver just stopped and said, are you okay and i'm sorry instead of speeding off, things won't have gone the way they did. kathleen, you're living on another planet. eddie tweets, i would never get my family in that close to a group of bikes. common sense tells you it will not turn out well. the guy was trying to get away! they swarmed him! that's it for us tonight. thanks for joining us. remember to friend me on facebook, follow me on twitter @judgejeanine. see you next week, same time,

same place, same me. updates on

twitter. updates on i will see you on huckabee with a live up date. >> tonight on huckabee. finger pointing. >> if you hope to end the republican shut down get rid of the tea party direction. >> this is harry reid's shut down because he wants it. and refuses to listen to the american people. >> speaker john boehner will not let the bill get a yes or no vote. >> the wall street journal out. we are winning. it is not a damn game. >> they are talking tough, but where is the action. >> the former congressman jason a tmire said the private sector can clean up the mess that the government created