>> get the hellut put on your big boy pants. >> mr. president, didn't you win the nobel peace prize? yes, you were the one. give it back! hello, and welcome to a special edition of "special justice." two raids conducted by special forces has led to the capture of a high-level al qaeda operative.

here with the latest is the national security correspondent, jennifer griffin. >> reporter: the predawn raid in somalia came almost 20 years to the day after the notorious blackhawk down incidents where two helicopters were shot down while they searched for a war lord. almost simultaneously in libya, army delta force operators surrounded the vehicle of this man, abu anas al liby, who is now being held onboard a u.s. ship. al liby's family said he just pulled up to his house after morning prayers when he was captured. the top al qaeda operative was indicted in the southern district of new york and wanted by the u.s. government for more than a decade for his role in the 1998 east africa bombings. >> we hope this makes clear that the united states of america

will never stop in its effort to hold those accountable who conduct acts of terror and those members of al qaeda and other terrorists organizations literally can run but can't hide. >> al liby has been wanted for 15 years and i wish he was being tried in guantanamo instead of new york. >> al liby will be intear gated for a few weeks before turned over to lawmakers, and he will not be sent to guantanamo. he hid in britain and iran after the attacks and returned to libya in 2011 during the up rising against moammar gadhafi. the s.e.a.l. operation in somalia was to capture a foreign

fighter who was the close associate of two somalis wanted for the embassy bombings as well as an attack on a motel in 2002. it was not cleared if he was killed in the attack. one somali was killed but the s.e.a.l.s could not retrieve the body to make an identification. and there are some indications libyan forces may have helped u.s. delta troops. judge? >> all right, jennifer, thanks. with me now, retired u.s. army hraopbl colonel, tone gee schafer from d.c., and jonathan gilliam here with me in new york. tony, i will start with you. you commanded a joint dod cia base that included two detachments in kenya focusing an supporting special opposite in somalia. what can you tell us about the

difficulties that would have been encountered by the seals yesterday? >> it's a very difficult operating environment and as pointed out by jennifer, the intelligence is hugely important to understanding who you are going after and when you are going after them. people to get into those circles, judge, you have to basically take a long time and penetrate these tribes. tribes are difficult to penetrate and it's a rough environment with distance as well and the fact that we took a shot is good and the fact that we have not got confirmation is not good, and it tells me we should continue to try and it's one step moving forward to prosecute the effort towards al shabab. >> there were reports that there was a fire fight as jennifer said possibly preventing the s.e.a.l.s from preventing their mission. no capture. what does that tell you? >> well, not only was it to kill or capture these individuals but also to really eliminate or at least try to reduce their

ability to actually carry out further attacks. you have two different types of missions going on at one time, and there is still not clarification on the big part where they capture or kill the guy, but we do know and see that there will be a diminished ability of al shabab in the future. >> but, you know, tony -- >> yeah. >> in a situation like this, i mean, do you know if they go in? are you guys given orders to appe capture or kill? is there a kill order versus a capture order? >> most orders, you try to go in and capture. the idea is dead men tell no tales. i think we should be doing this operation over drones. to defeat a network you have to capture people, we want to go in there to disrupt them as well and gain intelligence. we do all three of these

simultaneously and we want to come out with somebody alive, and if you can't, eliminating the target, especially somebody that conducted a heinous attack as the mall attack needs to be eliminated. >> you know, the fact, tony, this was done so soon after what happened in kenya, and then you pose that against benghazi, and we have not spoken about al liby being captured from libya. what does that tell you? >> there's a concern that u.s. citizens may have been involved in the attack in kenya, and there are a seen that al shabab had recruited from united states and that's bad. this group has been something on the radar since 2006. we have been targeting them and have had raids and we need to continue to prosecute hard this target set and with that set i think we have good access in libbia. >> yeah, we need to pick up kau

talla, who is accused of being one of the masterminds of what happened in benghazi. what we know about al liby, captured by delta force -- i am curious, guys, when you decide to use the s.e.a.l.s, you are close to a shore and delta force, who decides which one comes in? >> the skill set is so evenly matched between the two groups really it comes down to who is in the country and in rotation in that area. >> exactly. >> let's go back to the other mission in somalia, and it starts with kenya, and that attack and the investigation what you are literally seeing is the ripple affect of investigation which is done by the fbi and the military is also involved with that and that pushes into the dod and they further their attack. >> okay. guys, last question. now, supposedly this guy, al liby, being brought back to the united states. how is that being aca accomplis?

how do you bring back somebody that you take from another country? >> well, typically the way it would start is first we try to get whatever type of information we can get out of the individual before we bring them back in country. i think what you are running into with this individual is what was the real mission? was it more political so we can get -- >> i want to know physically. this guy is now on his way back here and out of libya. where is he? >> what happens is the military will do the attack, and then the hrt takes over -- >> hrt meaning? >> hostage rescue team. >> tony, quickly, what is your take? i have to rap. >> we don't have a past to deal with him, and normally we would take somebody to guantanamo, and they want to try him in new york and i don't think there is a clear path for that right now. >> thank you. more on yesterday's daring

terror raids. now that we have al liby, what do we do with him? we will talk to the former top law enforcement officers in the nation. first, our poll, what do you think? should congress be paid during the government shutdown? we will read your answers later in the show. facebook or tweet m. we will read your answers later in the show.

special forces have captured one of the fbi's most wanted terrorists in the world. high value al qaeda operative abu anas al liby is wanted for his role in the bombings in tanzania and benghazi. john joins me from washington, d.c. >> good to see you, judge. >> thank you. john you believe yesterday's actions and the capture of an al qaeda operative essentially resulted in an act of war by the united states. why do you say that? >> when i was a prosecutor we had to conform to treaties instead of going in and killing local soldiers and kidnapping the defendant in the case, which is what we were told and an elite fbi agent is going to advise him of his rights on a slow ship to the united states, and he is not going to be standing on a plank and then brought back to the united

states to stand trial in is 157-page indictment in which he is named in three overt acts identified by an informant. that doesn't work. >> the last time we asked the libyan country if we could take somebody from their country, the lockerbie defendant who was living in libya, they said no. what should we have done? ask them first, and then say, okay, we will go home? >> that's the problem about the world, if you obey the law, that's what you have to do. we went to the u.n. last time and they introduced the ruling and the united states doesn't argue from the position of strength because the united states won't abide by the international court itself. >> all right, john. >> we lose our moral imperative, if you will, if you say we have one when we run around like common criminals stealing people off the street. that's what i think. >> now we have the distinguished former attorney general of the united states, judge michael ma

casy. >> just like the old flannery that i used to know that hogwash then and hogwash now. there is no rule of international law that says we are obligated to be sitting ducks. if another country can't control what goes on there or won't control it, or won't control people who are killing our people, and attacking our embassies, then we can do something about it. >> what about the fact, judge, that this guy, al liby, he was indicted by the southern district, and in 2000, and has been living openly for the last two years in tripoli, we have known where he was. does he get advise of his miranda rights? he is a person in a civilian trial. >> he is aboard a ship. they are not in any hurry to get

him back here, and they will try to debrief him. >> if he says i am not talking? >> he says i am not talking. then he doesn't talk. and unfortunately we have dunaway with the cia interrogation where we would have some ways to get people to talk, didn't violate statues, but nonetheless we are coercive. >> didn't we have a cia that will question them? >> i hope so. hope they are there and hope they are doing it, and if he starts to talk, even then in order to evaluate the truthfulness and the value of what it is that he gives us, we need to double back and go back and look at other evidence and then double back on him. we are not going to have a lot of time with him even under up t optimum conditioned. >> would you prefer he be designated an enemy combatant

and we go to guantanamo? >> i prefer we take our time. the administration said they are holding him under the law of war -- >> exactly. >> which for this administration is a break through for the administration. theytion they shunned that term. >> does that signal that under the law of war, something different may happen than bringing him down to manhattan? >> not ultimately. they will bring him under the law of war and get as much out of him and then turn him over to law enforcement authorities and then he will be tried in the southern district of new york. >> in fact, judge, haven't a lot of these trials in the southern district resulted in stiff penalties whereas in the military tribunals they had

troubles with the convictions? >> yeah, the last guy that got tried for the embassy bombings, they brought up from guantanamo and he got off on all of the murder counts and he was convicted of conspiring to destroy government property. that was the only charge on which he was convicted. >> let's hope we get whatever it is we need from al liby. it's always a pleasure have youiyou with us. will we go after those responsible for benghazi? don't for get to vote in the insta poll, should congress be paid during the shutdown? i can't wait to hear your answers on that one.

>> secretary of state kerry vowed that america would continue to hunt down those across the globe that intend to do the u.s. harm. who is the next target? join my next guest, fox news contributor, and a member of the task force. the secretary of state says you can run but you can't hide. the problem was that al liby was not hiding. what is up with that? >> judge, he was out in the open for at least the past two years after kgadhafi fell. he was living in britain, judge, for the years. in the late '90s he was given asylum, and many al qaeda members given asylum. he had been on the radar, but

living open in libya. >> and then the next one, he was walking around drinking coffee. while delta force was there why didn't they grab him and take him home? >> yeah, i was thinking about that, the greatest special forces in the world and showed it again yesterday and why are the men behind benghazi still walking around free men. the obama administration is not giving a straight answer there. >> and then with these raids, both of them in africa, one in libya and the other in somalia, does it highlight what a hotbed of terrorism aftrica has become? >> yeah, we need to put boots on the ground anyplace. >> what caused us to step it up? >> i think we realize we don't want africa to turn into the next afghanistan. we have seen the areas where there is barely a functioning

government, they are a safe haven for terrorists and if anything is learned from the lessons of afghanistan we need to be there now before the situation gets worse. >> not only that, not only is a failed state, somalia, libbia, and it's all about egypt. i was there last week. the muslim brotherhood is tied to al qaeda. people think it's another political party but it's not, it's affiliated with al qaeda. >> how come the president didn't know that when he was supporting them in egypt? now, it's related to the international component. what does this tell you? we are going in now and doing the quick hits capturing or killing and we don't know the whole story from somalia, and is this the new war? is this how it's going to be conducted? >> it's hard to tell but i take it as a positive sign.

we have had fbi agents and cia officers on the ground a long time working on the benghazi situation and there is more work to be done but i take it as a positive note with the capture of al liby that maybe we are making headway with the counterparts in libya, and you have to take baby steps with these guys and i think it's a good sign. >> and to you, eric, do you think that the kenya mall attack was insta gated, our picking up al liby who has been living openly for two years in tripoli? >> i think it's the main concern. when it comes to somalia and the mall attack, can that happen here? remember, al shabab has been actively recruiting here on american soil, dozens of u.s. citizens, somali americans have gone from places like columbus, ohio, the heartland, minneapolis, over to somalia, and training with al shabab. >> yeah, minneapolis, you know, with that mall of america, and

we are talking about so many of the somalis living there. is that now a concern? >> i think the issue with minneapolis is that many of these people leave minneapolis to go and fight with somali with a nationalist eubg view and they want to fight to protect their homeland. >> but they want to fight us, the place they are living. >> we saw this with the person responsible for the subway plot. he left new york with the intention of fighting in afghanistan and then he was co-opted to take the fight back home and plot against the u.s. so this is the issue with somalia, these young men could be leaving with one goal in mind, and then their mind changes and they never took the fight back home. this is the worry. >> when i think about the boston bombing and all the warnings we got from russia, i worry about whether or not we really have the ability to identify this

stuff, you know, and these people within this country, and certainly there is going to be retaliation? >> of course there will be. the problem is not that -- we are collecting intelligence but not putting everything together. we were warned, but it fell through the cracks. more than once. yeah, we created so many bureaucracies. >> yeah, you are part of fbi. why sit falling through the cracks? >> the boston situation was not falling through the cracks. we went back to the russians not wupbts and twice and asked them for additional information? >> it's not their obligation. those guys were under -- we knew where they were. they were putting up jihady videos. >> there are guidelines. >> hogwash with the guidelines. we are sending drones over there and killing people and now we are complying with the guidelines? these guys want to kill us.

>> the fbi has a certain set of guidelines that they must play by, and if they don't have enough to take it -- >> well said by the former fbi agent. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you for being with us this evening. day six of the government shutdown. is there any end in sight? the standoff that has america stuck in the middle. middle.

live from america's news headquarters, new details on two separate raids by special forces in africa.

the target from shabab. that status is unknown. in libya, the army's delta force capturing abu anas al liby, a suspected al qaeda leader for the embassy bombings in africa. john kerry saying the u.s. and russia are pleased with the progress on destroying syria's weapons. the first of weapons were destroyed on sunday. a u.n. resolution followed the deadly attack with sarin gas. now back with judge jeanine. we're now in day six of the government shutdown with no end in sight. the republicans and democrats continue to face-off with the american public caught in the middle. joining me, republican

congressman devin nunez of california. good evening, congressman. >> great to be back on, judge. >> before we get to the shutdown issue, you are a member of the house intel committee and what is the last you are hearing on the terrorism raids conducted by the terrorism forces yesterday? >> tomorrow we will get briefed on the somali raid. i am concerned about the whole idea that we picked up al liby who has been a wanted terrorists for 15 years and implicated and indicted in the bombing of our embassies, i think it's a big mistake to bring him to the united states and he should be going to guantanamo, and he should be intear gated for not a few weeks but for years until we find out everything he knows about al qaeda and their affiliates. >> the administration said the guy has been indicted and he has to be tried in a civilian criminal court and i had guests on that said they have high-value interrogation teams that can do just as good a job.

what do you say to that? >> well, look, then close down guantanamo. the fact is nobody wants these guys here. i don't want them in my district and i don't think people want them in new york and put them in guantanamo and intear gaaeur in them. >> the american people are fed up with every one of you. when is the government coming back? >> i think the american people should be upset with us. for one, the republicans -- i have been very critical of our party. i have been an outspoken opponent of obama care, but from the beginning of the strategy that ted cruz laid out and a few of the people in our republican conference followed was built on a false premise that somehow just by shutting down the government miraculously obama care would disappear and that was never the case and now what we are waiting for on the shutdown side of things is ted

cruz and his allies to come out and admit to our party base that in fact even if we keep the government shutdown obama care still moves forward. but now you have a situation where two have met. now you have president obama who is closing down war memorials and making this as painful as possible for the american people and now refusing to negotiate on the debt limit. >> you know what, congressman? i have to tell you. certainly there are arguments on both sides and i know the house has agreed to fund the government but not to fund obama care, but at the end of the day, people are saying, wait a minute, i am being furloughed, you know, and my pay is being held back and my poll question tonight is should your pay be held back until you guys figure this out? >> let me guess. i am sure it's 100%. what i am doing is i am not going to take a paycheck until the government re-opens. we passed a bill yesterday that

all furloughed government workers will get a paycheck, and the problem that we have with this whole strategy is that it's a successful strategy to shut down the government but it's not going to end obama care. what we have to do is focus the fight where we can win, which is on the debt limit to reign in the country's spending and hold this president and the administration accountedable. >> congressman, thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you, judge. two fox news contributors join us. take a listen to president obama this week talking about the shutdown. >> when it comes to negotiations i said that i am happy to have negotiations with the republicans and speaker boehner on a whole range of issues, but we can't do it with a gun held to the head of the american people. >> joe, why does the president continue to ramp up this rhetoric of violence that, you know, a gun to the head of the

american people, and you know that the republicans have bombs strapped to their chest, that they are terrorists? isn't that beneath him as a president? >> i don't know if it's beneath him. it's blackmail, whatever you want to call it. dumb tactic would be probably better ways of talking about it. >> but even blackmail, isn't the whole point of this to negotiate? isn't that what they are supposed to? if you don't fund this, i am not talking to you. >> well, that's what the republicans are saying. and as congressman nunez pointed out it's a dumb tactic is that not going to work. obama care goes on and all they succeeded in doing was shutting down the government. you tried 41 times to repeal obama care and then you say if you don't defund it we are going to shut down the government, which you do, and then when that doesn't -- >> no, they didn't say they were going to shut down the

government. >> that's exactly what they said. >> no. >> that is what ted cruz -- >> oh, ted cruz is part of it. what congress voted, what the republicans voted was to keep the government going and defund obama care. the president then says you don't fund obama care i am not negotiating. there is nothing to negotiate at that point, is there, brad? take over. >> judge, the president brought this on himself. the president's law was passed, obama care, no doubt about it, but the way you repeal it and amend it is going back to congress. the president unilaterally went beyond his authority by amending his own law and excludeing businesses for a year and the republicans said if it's good enough for businesses why not the individual? the fact of the matter s. the president by his own fiat said i am not going to negotiate. it takes three to tango. the president, the house and the senate.

>> here is the thing. you know what, joe? the democrats say, look, this was a law that was passed in the supreme court upheld it and the president was re-elected and then i thought about it and i said, you know, this really was not like passed like in the senate, because they didn't have the 60 votes, this obama care law is the result of reconciliation, which is a little different than actually having the senate pass it because they didn't have the vote, so they stuck it in the budget. yeah? what do you have to say to that, joe? >> that could be true. it doesn't really matter. it's the law of the land and the supreme court has found it constitutional. there is two things i don't understand and will not understand about it. if obama care is the abomination and the destructive force that is going to destroy everybody in the country and people are going to wake up and premiums are three times they were, and then

the democrats will never win another election. that would mean that the republicans with carry the senate in 2014 and gain the house and elect the president in 2016, which is how you change laws in this country by winning elections. >> but in the meantime the country goes bust. we have got no money. >> in the meantime the republicans have shut down the government -- >> no, no, no. the republicans -- >> yes, they have. yes, they have. >> no. >> let him answer it. >> joe, in the last 17 years, or rather in the last 30 years, there has been 17 shutdowns since ford. it's the president who shuts down the president. he is the one responsible, because using barack obama's language, the buck stops with him. so the fact that he won't negotiate his way out of this, there will not -- >> they are not going to negotiate. obama care is not going to be

negotiated. it's not going to happen. it's not going to happen. >> joe and brad, thank you so much for a spirited debate. coming up, more on the government shutdown. what do you think congress should do? should they be paid during the government shutdown? facebook or tweet me. we will read your answers later in the show. in the show.

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the republicans blame the democrats, and the democrats blame the republicans and as each day goes by the american public is simply fed up with all of them. who is going to be the first to

blink in this game of high stakes chicken? joining me is our guests. the american people are fed up with all the finger-pointing. should we vote everybody out of congress? >> that would be nice but we are not allowed to do that. what we need to look at is who truly is responsible for this? the house passed 20 bills. the senate is refusing to listen to it. in reality it's the senate led by the democrats and harry reid that is refusing to have an honest conversation. >> in the blame game richard, does it matter who is at fault? at this point does anybody gain -- you hear them saying the republicans and the democrats saying we are going to win, and do they not understand they have to roll up their sleeves and do this? i am not talking about republicans or democrats, you work for us and you should make it happen? >> i agree with you. if you look at the facts and what is happening out there, and

the cdc is not checking for disease outbreak and it's time for the government to get back to work and congress needs to get back to work funding the government. >> hasn't congress passed a bill that said we will fund the government, we just won't fund obama care. the president says i will not negotiate you holding the guns to the american people. i mean, number one, the president talking like that is beneath the office, and then number two, what is to negotiate if you are saying you won't negotiate? >> congress is a broad word, and i would say it's one side of the house, and one small caucus and two members of the -- >> no, the house, it's the whole house. >> i am talking about how we got to the shutdown to begin with. >> i don't care how we got there. we are hear now. richard, listen to me. we are hear now. the house passed a bill said we are going to fund it but not obama care. it's as simple as that. >> and democrats are okay for opening back up the government, and let's extend --

>> well, why are we going to give up the only chance that we have of negotiating. >> we already negotiated. >> no, we have not. what have the democrats -- >> with the sequester, it's in the budget, and we are working on republican -- >> what are you talking about? the sequester is the president's idea. he signed it. let's go with today. >> they are giving the republicans everything they want. >> the reality of it 82% of the federal workers are working. every single one we tried to put back, cdc, fema, and -- >> that's the political employ. >> no, we passed it in the house, and senator harry reid will not do it. >> you passed bills for you guys to go out and talk about how great this is that we are opening up the monument. that's a political employ. >> richard, is the president

ready to allow the default of this country? would he rather have that happen -- >> that's a question for john boehner, judge. john boehner has the ability to pass a clean cr -- >> john boehner -- they already passed a funding of the government -- >> a clean cr. >> in other words, fund obama care. we have done that since 2009. >> obama care is the law of the land. it will not get repealed. >> well, nobody is talking about this. it's a result of reconciliation. it was not passed the way laws are passed and they did not have the 60 votes when senator ted kennedy died, and they did not have the votes on the eve of christmas and they said let's do reconciliation in the budget and now it's a law. >> in all honestly, they said the conservatives hold on to guns and bibles and we have to

ask why are the democrats hanging on to obama care? >> because we want children to get health care. individuals with preexisting conditions to get health care. >> this is about working class families the ability to health care. >> with the default, then people don't get social security. >> thank you for being with us tonight. coming up, is this government shutdown nonsense all going back to one thing? remember the movie "city slickers," one thing. obama care. after the break. >> should congress be paid while the government is being shut down? down? [ male announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance in sync?

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>> he didn't know how many signed up for alabama care. as usual not able to answer a direct question about obama care. let's not forget the friend at the ir sshg will be handling in large part part this. >> you represent many of the conservative groups targeted by the irs. how can the american people trust obama care with the irs involved? >> you can't. ifs fair to say the irs is incap capable of enforcing obama care. with every week that passes we are getting a new revelation about the irs. last week it was dr. ben carson giving the speech.

never had an issue with the irs before they got on it by the speech before the president. you could say coincidence. i don't say coincidence any more. >> they are going to decide whether you get a mastectomy which kind of healthcare you are allowed to get which triment. obama care is not ready for prime time. they are at the benefit of all of the people from twitter, facebook. do they refuse to hold themselves accountable to anything? >> i think the reality is if we don't have the government shut down issue that is in the media this last week if we didn't have th the story would have been launching obama care with all of the tech savviness were not able to do it. you mention the enforcement of obama care being handled the irs. anybody watching this broadcast

with sensitive information they may or may not share it. the irs is free wielding with who they are sharing information with in fact violating their own rules and regulations and federal law. i think the reality is the answer is quite simple. obama care is falling on its own because it is not economically feasible. the reality is the irs has the mechanism to enforce it is not capable. between the enforcement issue and monetary aspects of it it just doesn't work. you have the union calling to stop it. everybody wants the exemptions. everybody wants everything moved back a year. >> the board president they want a waiver they get it. small business it will not get that labor. >> i am optimistic build the lawsuit. you also got at the same time, judge, a series of cases now on

the way to the supreme court mandates and individual exemptions. i believe the court will take those. they will strike them down and it will be a significant glow to obama care. at the end of the day we will keep fighting. >> we asked you if congress should get paid during the government shut down. over 8,000 of you responded. almost every one of you said no way. i don't think they should be paid when the government is running. janice says hell no from the president on down they are acting like a bunch of immature brats. put them in the horse barn and lock the doors until they are done. we don't get paid to not work why should politicians? >> that is it for us tonight. thanks for joining us. remember to facebook me and friend me on facebook follow me on twitter at judge jeanine.

see you next week next saturday night.

>> republicans want to party like it is 1995. but it is a crisis. >> the hundred thousand government workers furloughed. >> government shut down. >> how will america survive? >> it will slash the operation. >> is bathetic. it is not responsible. >> nancy pelosi says it has been cut to the bone in the budget already. >> the coverage is bare? no. it is filled with stuff fed cup overflows and i will