>> brian: we also have some huge guests booked and we'll get some resolve to do what's happening with the men and women who lost their lives in battle and those who are wounded. ken fisher will talk to us in the after the show show. >> elisabeth: have a great day. bill: thank you, guys. good morn, everybody. it is day nine of the partial shutdown and a shutdown insult and outrage today. families of american troops paying the ultimate price for their country, now told bit pentagon they will not get the benefit that is owed to them. that benefit is about $100,000. the question this morning is, who made this decision? i'm bill hemmer. as we roll on here in "america's newsroom" and good morning at home. martha: that is something we'll try to figure out this morning. good morning, everybody. the bodies of fallen soldiers and marines will be flown home today from afghanistan. they will arrive at dover air force base but the families have to pay for their own trip to go pick up the loved ones.

one lawmaker says this is ridiculous. >> here is what is happened. this is boneheaded decision that dishonors our fallen brothers and sisters. it also does this, it breaks the trust that our government has with those men and women that serve on the front lines and are forgotten right now because of the shutdown. that 19 situation the government is putting these guys in and families and it is pure bureaucracy. it is shameful and embarrassing and need to change it immediately. bill: at least five families dealing with the sudden loss 6 loved ones. private first class cody paterson was only 24 in the second deployment in afghanistan. his commander says his future was limitless. martha: arm specialist joseph peters was on his third deployment. the commanding general says he is deeply saddened by the loss. bill: army sergeant patrick hawkins. killed in an attempt to aid a wounded fellow army ranger. martha: lance corporal jeremiah collins, jr., was just 19 years old. his family said if anything

happened to him they believed the government would take care of him. bill: arm first lieutenant, jennifer moreno, 25-year-old from san diego, california, on her first deployment, her congressman demanding answers as we heard there. peter doocy starts our coverage, live in washington. how did lawmakers allow this or was it lawmakers allowed these payments to lapse? >> reporter: lawyers from the justice department, white house and reviewed the pay our military act which both houses of congress overwhelmingly passed during the shutdown but those lawyers are saying now that the language in that bill only appropriates money for servicemen and women, not their families. so the loved ones of any troops who died after 11:59 p.m. on september 30th are out of luck. >> what do the american people think when they see that death benefit for those who served and sacrificed in the most honorable

way are not even, their families are not even eligible for death benefits? i'm ashamed. i'm embarrassed. all of us should be. >> reporter: likewise democratic majority leader harry reid called the problem appalling. later the house will vote on a measure to make sure the families begin receiving death benefits again. this comes as some analysts are beginning to the blame the white house for this and justice. >> this isn't about the government shutdown. it is about whether the commander-in-chief gives a damn about the morale of our troops. that is what is really comes down to. those who are serving in harm's way and families and morale of those families. it does not take an act of congress to authorize this travel by the dependents of families of our dead or our wounded. all it takes is a commander-in-chief with a conscience. >> reporter: the pentagon is

saying they're keeping a close eye on survivors who lost loved once. bill: get this straight. john boehner said last thursday they took care of this. they will take it up again in the house to make sure it is taken care of. your reporting attorneys at department of defense and department of justice says the law does not allow the payments to go out there. are other reports from other agencies, suggesting white house lawyers were also involved in this we'll run that down and see if it is true. what happens if you vote today and payments are restored quickly, will that happen, peter? >> reporter: well we have to wait and see but if that does not happen, bill, we're now getting word the fisher foundation, the fisher house foundation will step up and pick up the tab for the time-being. we have got a quote that says, after losing a loved one in service to our nation, these families should not have to endure more pain as the result of political squabbling. bill, we're now just 2 1/2 hours away from the time that the remains of 24-year-old private

first class cody paterson who as was killed in afghanistan during the shutdown are going to arrive at dover air force base in delaware. bill: all too often. peter doocy leads the coverage from washington. developments on that throughout the morning. martha has more. martha: we're hearing more from loved ones of fallen soldiers. sergeant joseph peters was killed in afghanistan on sunday by a roadside bomb. he was just 24 years old. the friends are trying to do everything they can to help his family and his wife ashley through this very tough time. >> this is heart breaking and now your friend lost the love of her life in such a tragic way and not to be able to do or say anything for her? it makes more important to get ashley, to help her son, to help his family anyway that we possibly can. >> these people lose their lives, people losing their sons

and daughters, their husbands, their wives. bill: former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld was asked about this last night on fox. he said it is just plain inexcusable. >> it is inexcusable. i just can't imagine a decision-making process that would produce those outcomes. it is so unfair to the families, to the veterans, to the soldiers they are clearly pick and choosing what they want to do and making decisions that are, i suppose fit their political philosophy. martha: boy this is clearly struck a nerve as it should. so how did we get to this point? how could this tragedy be what finally brings lawmakers to the negotiating table? is that what will happen now? we have a fair and balanced debate on that straight ahead. bill: all right. we're going to follow this throughout the day and try to figure out how you resolve this, first of all. there will be movement on the hill too. stay tuned for headlines on that. meantime six minutes past,

another fox news alert. we're just getting word the president is inviting the entire house democratic caucus to the white house to talk about spending and debt issues as that government shutdown as we said in day nine. it is the first of four meetings that the white house is planning with whom the others will happen we don't know. other three congressional conferences and caucuses will be invited next. it did not seem like the president was ready to talk yesterday when he went to a microphone in a dueling news conference with the house speaker. of the first the president. >> i am happy to talk with him and other republicans about anything, not just issues i think are important but also issues that they think are important. but i also told him that having such a conversation, talks, negotiations, shouldn't require hanging on the threats of a government shutdown or economic chaos over the heads of the american people. >> well the president said today was, if there is unconditional

surrender by republicans, he will sit down and talk to us. that's not the way our government works. we can't raise the debt ceiling without doing something about what's driving us to borrow more money and to live beyond our means. >> if congress refuses to raise what is called the debt ceiling, america would not be able to meet all of our financial obligations for the first time in 225 years. >> the idea that we should continue to spend money that we don't have and give the bill to our kids and our grandkids would be wrong. >> okay. there it is from the back and forth. what will happen today? republican senator rand paul has got a pretty good idea. he is our live guest in a matter of moments inside of "america's newsroom" at eight minutes past, martha. martha: now between this cr time and the debt ceiling time, two weeks now until we hit that debt ceiling number and the possibility of default. the white house says that magic day is october the 17th. that is next thursday.

but president may be using some fuzzy math some think because he says even if we raise our debt ceiling, it won't increase our debt. >> because it is called raising the debt ceiling, i think a lot of americans think it's raising our debt. it is not raising our debt. this does not add a time to our debt. it simply says you pay for what congress has already authorized america to purchase. martha: really? is that so? stuart varney joins me now, host of "varney & company" on fbn. stuart, how is that possible? if that were possible we would bumped against the ceilings and gone down in the coming months, right? >> let me requote exactly what president obama just said. you pay for what congress also already authorized america to purchase. precisely. you pay for it. you have got to borrow to pay for it. you borrow more money, you increase the debt. president obama wants another trillion dollars to spend.

that would raise the debt from 17 trillion to 18 trillion. clearly it does add to our debt. martha, the president is in a corner on this issue of debt. in 2006 he did not want to raise the debt ceiling. called that unpatriotic. in 2011, he was this charge when we went through a debt crisis and were downgraded. now he says he wants more debt but he denies we're adding to the debt by raising the debt ceiling. that does not inspire confidence in those people who want to see america's finances run properly. stocks down. martha: it makes no sense whatsoever. i mean obviously if you raise the debt ceiling you will incur more debt, because as you say you have to dig into more borrowing to meet that threshold. >> sure. martha: where does this go from here? >> well you have to read between the lines of what the president is saying. it looks to most people that we'll go right up to the deadline and get some kind of a deal but i want to make another

point, martha. we do not default at midnight on october the 17th. martha: that's right. >> we simply do not. you default when you stop paying interest on your debt. we've got a ton of money coming that will pay the interest on the debt. we do not default. simply because we go past that october 17th deadline. martha: i got to go, stuart, just very quickly. if we get an extension deal during which period we're supposed to kind of work this hard in terms of deficit reduction perhaps, what will the market think about that, do you think. >> probably very favorable. although it kicks the can down the road, it relieves the immediate problem, the market, i don't know for sure, but probably will go up. martha: all we do is kick the can down the road to the next time and next time and time after that. we'll see you later as well. bill: so some illegal immigrants were okay, but the world war ii veterans not okay. outrage after an immigration rally hit the national mall while american vets were shut out a week ago. we'll talk to a man, a filmmaker who was there to see it all.

we'll ask him what transpired. martha: rollout for obamacare could get a whole lot rougher. as you know the irs will very involved in health care and they will start enforcing 47 different provisions they are now in charge of overseeing. how will that go? the women in charge of that is set to hit the hot seat on capitol hill. house oversight chair darrell issa has questions on that. >> the knew questions on the reg rage beatdown that shocked the country. it shocked new york city. that is tough thing to do. martha: i'll say. bill: why this video that is so disturbing will get more disturbing when you find out details who was involved next [ woman ] my doctor wanted me to get one of those emergency pendants.

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martha: going to be an interesting day in detroit because the governor of michigan is facing some tough questions over his decision to let the city go to bankruptcy court. governor rick snyder will give a three-hour deposition we're told. he will be grilled according to those who will be involved by a

panel of labor unions and other creditors. detroit is reportedly in the hole for at least $18 billion. many believe other cities could go this way. that is why everybody watches detroit so closely. critics athe emergency manager of the city did not do enough to negotiate with creditors before filing for bankruptcy earlier this summer. >> so the president's position that, listen, we're not going to sit down and talk to you until you surrender is just not sustainable. that is not our system of government. >> the american people do not get to demand a ransom for doing their jobs. you don't get a chance to call your bank and say i'm not going to pay my mortgage this month unless you throw in a new car and an xbox. bill: xbox and a new car. partial shutdown day nine. debt ceiling deadline eight days away, america. senator rand paul believes the talk about the financial armageddon as the debt ceiling is breached is a bunch of hot

air the senator is with me right now. how come? >> the thing is we bring in about $250 billion in tax revenue every month. our interest payment is about 20 billion. so really 10% of the money we bring in goes towards the interest payment or a little bit less than 10%. we have plenty of money to keep paying our interest. the president should cut it out. he should quit trying to scare the markets and scare investors. he should come forward if he is a leader saying we will not default. we have never defaulted. america is a proud country. we will not default. that is what he should do. bill: let me rip through a bunch of questions here. what did you think of his offer to, open the government around raise the debt ceiling, then we'll talk, what did you think of that? >> well agree with speaker boehner. he sort of wants everything he wants. he wants us to completely capitulate and maybe he will talk to us later. you have to put this in perspective. he has been president for five years and he added $7 trillion in debt. the only time he negotiated something that was good for the country was when the sequester

happened at the same time we raised the debt limit in 2011. he will not negotiate unless he is forced to negotiate. his mantra, his personal belief system, everything he is about is adding debt, unconditionally to this country and i think he is dragging the country down. bill: how then do you get him away from that position? how do you see a way out of this now? >> he will need to negotiate, he will need to compromise. he needs to come forward and he needs to say to the american people, i realize that we've added too much debt and this debt is a burden on our country and i will negotiate a compromise. i think we need something on the orders of like the sequester. i'm for a penny plan. cut the budget 1% across the board, that actually balances the budget in five years. bill: that would be sequester 2.0. i love it. how do you get concessions out of the president if you believe he believes what he does? >> evenly way you get concessions out of him, unfortunately you have to negotiate around this deadline. if you let him have what he

wants he will not negotiate because his personal belief system and most democrats believe this, is that deficits don't matter, the debt doesn't matter. in fact harry reid says there is no problem with social security debt, with medicare debt. they blindly wish it away. the only way they will negotiate is if they're forced to negotiate. so really you can't give in or nothing good will happen towards trying to rectify the problem. bill: can republicans get concessions on obamacare at this moment? >> i'm not positive what the concessions will be and i don't want to preclude any kind of arrangement or deal that will come forward. the deal needs to do something about the debt and something about the spending. bill: all right. if you do not get concessions on obamacare, does he prevail on that? >> you know, i think what we do, we keep pushing for what he will negotiate. but i think at this point, he's arguing that he wants 100% of obamacare and wants 100% of the ability to keep loading death on this country.

i think neither one of those are tenable positions. he need to compromise. he need to negotiate. bill: we were looking at some headlines. "politico" has been runing a story, the headline, is gop unity frays, frustration builds. that is dated october 8th. "washington post", shutdown exposes depth of rift between gop lawmakers. i looked at the "politico" article i could not find a quote attributed to one member of the republican party saying they were falling apart. what is the true sense on the inside? are you united or not? >> the truth is don't believe everything you read on the internet. no, i think we're actually very, very united on this the idea we have to do something. we can't keep piling on new debt and raise the debt ceiling is bad. the only way we support raising the debt ceiling is significant reform to spending, significant reform to the budget. bill: you're saying republicans are united? no breaks in the ranks. >> yeah. i think you will find that we're very united that raising the

debt ceiling without any kind of structural reform, any budgetary reform without any kind of concern for all the debt that president obama is adding to the country i don't think it is going to happen. bill: rand paul, senator, thank you for your time. >> thank you. bill: republican from kentucky on the hill with us. martha. martha: talk about breaking news. things can get pretty crazy behind the scenes here, but nothing like this control room. how this tv studio went up in flames. but this was no electrical fire. >> holy cow. martha: oh, my. we'll tell you what happened there. bill: also an off-duty police officer is now under arrest after this biker beatdown. what may be one of new york's finest playing out on his worst day.

bill: around here we call it hot tape. but this is nuts.

a group of masked men breaking into a control room at a tv station in the maldives setting the whole place on fire. watch them here. create ad huge explosion that practically gutted the entire building. the station was targeted because it supports the country's opposition leader. no injuries. that is a mess. never happens around here. martha: no. we have hot news stories but doesn't turn out that way. tells you how lucky we are in the united states of america because that is what happens if they think you're supporting the wrong side in the maldives. a lost expensive equipment goes up in flames. things are very cool at the moment. all right so the nypd arrested one of their own, if you can believe this story. for joining in on the biker road rage attack on an suv driver. investigators say that the under cover cop punched this suv's windows as the driver of the vehicle was beaten in front of his family more than a week ago. the bombshell news comes as we

now learn that a sixth bike hears been placed under arrest. this begins to answer some questions. david lee miller has been look into this. he joins us now. david, what do we know about this police officer? >> reporter: martha the officer we're talking about here is a 10-year veteran of the nypd. he is charged with rioting and criminal mischief for shattering the rear window of the suv. public reports say he was caught on video smashing the glass with a glove on his hand. he is expected to appear in criminal court in manhattan the next few hours. his arrest was not unexpected. the officer waited three days after the incident to even tell his bosses that he took part in the motorcycle ride and denied being a part of the melee. he had to turn in his gun and badge. he works as undercover officer, told superiors he didn't help the suv officer he was afraid if he was exposed as a cop his life would be in danger. authorities questioned that

explanation because when the incident took place, he was not on duty. martha? martha: so what more is there about the additional arrests today, david lee? >> reporter: authorities charge ad sixth biker in the assault. 32-year-old clinton caldwell is charged with gang assault. he is reportedly seen on video reviewed by investigators beating the suv driver. the nypd released images of persons of interest they would like to speak with regarding the investigation. the prosecutor's office released a statement saying in part, and i quote, the nypd and the district attorney's office are methodically scrutinizing the office to build meticulous cases in our efforts to hold those accountable. it seems more arrests will likely take place. the bikers, martha, most of them are ordinary folk. they're not thugs. others have argued that the video shows that what was taking place is certainly thuggish behavior. martha? martha: boy a lot more to come

in this story. david lee, thank you very much. bill: new question about a shutdown double-standard a group of questions shut out of memorials. monuments are closed in washington. heck, normandy is shutdown. but a group of immigration protesters are given access to the national mall. why did this happen? >> what i saw today was not only sad but it was despicable. and you're saying, rolling back to last week. i have been here all week. i'm telling you it is only gotten worse. today, i watched thousands of illegal immigrants just walk right throu the mall. martha: and more shame over the shutdown as families of fallen soldiers are told that they will not be receiving any death benefits until the government reopens. for many of them that means they might not be able to get there to receive the bodies of their loved ones. fair and balanced debate coming up next on this. getting your vegetables every day?

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bill: you can expect fireworks here. fox news alert now. the house oversight committee set to hold hearings on obamacare and the new taxes you will pay and the official on the hot seat is someone republicans have wanted to hear from for some time now. sarah haul ingram, the irs official in charge of enforcing obamacare and the 4new measures that come with the new health care law. she once headed the irs department tied to the targeting of conservative and tea party groups. so there's lot on the plate.

two big topics. we'll talk to oversite committee chair, darrell issa before the hearing begins in a few minutes. we'll find out what he wants to ask her today. that is coming up. martha: meanwhile shutdown outrage is spreading on capitol hill and beyond this country this morning as we wait for a vote in congress today that go reinstate death benefits to grieving families of soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice just over the weekend. senator lindsey graham says that every single lawmaker on both sides of the aisle should be ashamed by this. >> i say to those families, your government has let you down at a time of your need. there is no excuse for this. there is no excuse for the democrat, republicans, the president, not to negotiate. we all are held accountable here. this is not an acceptable way to run the most powerful nation in the world. martha: alan colmes is the host of the alan colmes radio show. katie pavlich is news editor at townhall.com and both are fox news contributors.

good morning to both of you. it is not a good morning for these families. you look at the young faces of these brave young men and women. let's pull their pictures up now and take a look at their names as well because we have joseph peters, cody paterson, jennifer moreno, jeremiah collins and patrick hawkins, all of whom have given their lives for our country and no doubt for their families the foremost thing in their mind is the loss of their loved one but added to that he have this the injury not receiving the benefits that is supposed to allow them to come to the base this morning, to travel there and carry out the grim work that lies ahead of them, alan. how does this happen? >> it happens because somebody, and i don't know who, felt there was some flexibility in terms of what could or could not be paid for. whoever made that decision that this would be one of those things upheld or until the such time as the government was reopened made a very, very bad decision. thankfully with the help of joe

manchin of west virginia, fisher house stepped in. they're offering to fund this until such time as hopefully today when congress can reinstate this kind of payment. martha: always amazes me the efficiency of charity in this country, when individuals step forth and do what needs to be done. a lot of people, katy, are responding to us on social media and twitter today. they believe that the ultimate decision here has to come from the top. that the commander-in-chief has to take responsibility for this decision. >> absolutely. barack obama should come out today and talk about this as a disgrace that it is. i agree with senator lindsey gram this is a failure of government to provide the basic necessity for those who have given the ultimate sacrifice for our country so we can have these debates here today, whether, how the government is shut down. this is situation where 83% of the government is still running, martha. martha: that's right. >> 83%. this is about priorities. who didn't think that this was going to happen, that maybe they

should prioritize the families losing a loved one for the sake of the rest of the country. one more thing real quickly. i think we forget some times we're still at war. this is perfect example how we need to be reminded, there are still people dieing overseas. we need to remember that is happening and honor them in the appropriate way. this is not the way to do it. it is a disgrace. martha: it is very striking, both of you, this law was pass supposed to cover the military benefits, there was assumption in congress on part of many, this would be included, benefits would extend to the family members. then we're learning this morning that the department of defense lawyers, the department of justice lawyers and according to nbc and we're working to see if we can verify this, white house lawyers, stepped in and said, oh, you know what this does not extend to family members. that decision made in the heat of all of this shutdown when you have got the congressional gym open and other things going on that don't seem to be taking

priority, it looks, alan, like it could be a, make sure everybody feels the pain campaign here. >> terrible decision and, you know, we certainly have the desire to point fingers. i would like to know who made the decision. whoever made it made a terrible decision. absolutely correct keep the congressional gym open but not take care of death benefits for fallen soldiers. it is a terrible, terrible idea. martha: what i'm asking, alan, is this part of the program, shut it down, don't let the world war ii vets, is this part of a sort of hate to say, p.r. campaign to make this painful for everybody? to point fingers politically, say, well, this is what you got. if it is we stepped over a pretty dangerous line. >> i hope not. i have my own view for who is responsible for the government shutdown in the first place which may be the bigger issue but i don't think this part of it should be a political football. whoever made this decision should be held responsible for making a terrible, terrible choice. martha: do you think, alan, the president should come out as katy suggested today.

i'm commander-in-chief these families -- >> as commander-in-chief it would be very, very helpful for him to say something like that. martha: katy, do you expect he will? >> i'm not sure, he is absent this entire debate. only time he comes out when he is complaining about house republicans and john boehner. he is not some one that takes you responsibility. did not come out for the world war ii vets barricaded from the own memorial at direction of the white house when the honor flight asked white house to open the memorial up, they said number i wouldn't surprise if this came from the top, if this is the past making it hurt the white house has a lost explaining to do in time of these family needs. >> i don't think is the time to be playing politics on something like this. use this as excuse to blame the white house, blame the president, blame democrats. >> i simply said he should come out and say something alan. i didn't say something when the world war ii vets outside in the memorial in wheelchairs sitting in front of barricades on the mall. didn't come out to talk to

families directly which he hasn't done. absence in his leadership. >> that is your opinion and using this an excuse to go after the commander-in-chief which is unfortunate way to play politics about something truly important. martha: i mean, but alan, it is a legitimate question. >> we want to play politics. talk who is responsible for the shutdown in the first place? martha: you know what? it's a legitimate question. we need to find out who made all the decisions, right. >> agree. martha: we know decisions were made 83% of the government is open. the question is, reports are this morning that department of defense and the pentagon and the department of justice, pentagon and department justice, excuse me and potentially white house lawyers. so people do need to be held accountable. >> let's find out. martha: they're being made. >> i agree. find out who made the decision. as i said before the person should be held accountable. martha: we'll see where it goes. we'll be on top of it all morning. there will be a vote in congress this morning. thank you, katy and alan. >> thank you.

martha: they thought what is in the bill would cover the families was in it and i expect that will pass easily this morning. bill: see it play out together @marthamaccallum and @billhemmer. debt ceiling, shutdown, veterans benefits and there are bodies coming home today in our nation's capitol. the rollout for obamacare might get a little bumpier in a moment. the irs is starting to enforce the 47 different provisions of that law and the woman in charge is set to hit the hot seat of. that is oversight chairman darrell issa on the questions that he has for today's witness. that hearing has now started. here is issa from a moment ago. >> yes, the targeting continues because they continue to simply deny justice and the old expression, that justice denied is, justice delayed is justice denied. in this case applies because until you get an approval or a rejection there is nothing you can do. ♪

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bill: here we go. fonews alert. the irs official in charge of enforcing obamacare and 47 new measures and taxes that come with the new health care law. bill: she is on the hot seat. the hearing is beginning right now. there is second issue for her as well. she used to run the irs department tied to the targeting of conservative and tea party groups. she will be under oath after repeated requests from republicans to do so. she appears today and we talk to the chairman of that committee darrell issa, just a few moments ago before the hearing began. darrell issa, good morning, welcome back to "america's newsroom." >> good morning, bill. thanks for covering the rollout of obamacare and the many problems we're seeing. bill: the reason we brought you on we have a lot of questions for you. sarah holing gram, what do we want to learn from her from about obamacare. >> she was central figure in planning and coordination. although she is career professional she met with the political appointees at the

white house 70 times with thousand of emails. in fact will have a central roll in 47 provisions of irs and 18 new taxes. bill: what do you think of the first week, by the way? rollout of obamacare is eight days in now. what do you think? >> when jay leno talks about how bad it is obviously it hit the mainstream. this is something where they weren't ready, they didn't plan properly and they're claiming the inability to get information on the internet is a sign of success. if that is a sign of success i would hate to see what failure is. bill: how do you think she will explain this then. >> she will spend a lot of time talking about how career professionals work ad lot of time to implement and how large the job is. what she won't want to talk about, and what we want to talk about this is highly political from the start. most of the conversations appear how they control, how do they tax and how do they decide who wins and who loses. remember the president has delayed or or granted waivers to all his political friends,

unions, certain large corporations. well the american people are not geting a waiver on this tax, even though they can't get online to find out how to comply. bill: in addition to this, her previous role was, kind of tied to the targeting of conservative groups that you've been investigating now for more than a year. with regard to that, what was her role, just refresh our memory here? >> she was critical in that she was lois lerner's boss. they communicated about how they would target conservative groups. in fact this has been one of the challenges. the irs wants to make anybody available, even if they worked at the irs during planning obamacare rather than sarah holing gram. they don't want to talk about what she did targeting conservative groups before she was there and turning the affordable care act into a previous presence for progressives. if you're conservatives not likely to gotten a waiver.

bill: if that is targeting still happening and if so can you prove it? >> we can certainly prove going back to the other the 501 c-4s, conservative groups, majority called tea party groups have not granted or were denied application while no such thing was done for liberal groups. they simply continue to deny just. the old expression that justice denied or justice delayed is justice denied applies. until you get an approval or rejection there is nothing you can do. >> while this is all happening the eyes of the country on washington, d.c. with the partial shutdown. how do you see that ending? >> well i hope it ends soon. we have 2.1 million federal workers, about 400,000 are idled but the president used that idling to target some guys. i will be with the mayor of washington, d.c. later today trying to get the senate to allow the district of columbia to at least spend their own money. this is money that they tax

themselves for, that is being held up through a technicality that harry reid will not allow to be waived. >> how much longer? >> i'm hoping -- bill: i'm sure you thought about it. are republicans united? what is your sense of that? >> republicans are united. we want to get to real entitlement reform. now the affordable care act is huge entitlement program. social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamp program, "60 minutes" how they dealt with the disability waste and abuse we need to get a handle on that or the american taxpayer will find themselves paying for more and more idled people and people being incentivized not to go to work. that is part of what we have to make a point of in the debt ceiling. it is what we have to do, begin changing the direction of our spending because right now it is going toward large entitlements that fewer and fewer taxpayers are being forced to pay higher prices for. bill: the witness stand r on the

stand, sarah ingram on our committee today. that is darrell issa. >> thank you. bill: we're watching hearing room and darrell issa is delivering his opening statement. sarah halling gram is on the stand. they want to find out what that communication is all about and how political it was. martha: that is interesting. we'll keep an eye on a that this morning. how bad is the government shutdown getting? just ask all of the people who have been issued tickets for trying to walk around the grand canyon. seriously? bill: all those politicians would like to get away, huh? how about this idea? hundreds of hot-air balloons taking flight. speaking of hot air, we'll tell you where this is going on. martha: i like that one. ♪ [ banker ] sydney needed some financial guidance

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♪ bill: are we allowed to hear that whole song by willie nelson? kind of need it right now, do you think? martha: yeah. bill: hundreds of balloons flying over the skies in new mexico. 42nd albuquerque international balloon fiesta. they come in all varieties, colors and sizes, and butterflies and cows. even dart vader's helmet. watch out if you live there, you never know when one will land in your yard. martha: we saw that recently. nearly two dozen people have been cited for trying to enter the grand canyon national park. yes, it's true.

it is closed of course because of the government shutdown. businesses in the area say it is costing them millions in tourist dollars. will carr is live outside one of the closed entrances with more. good morning, will. >> reporter: good morning, martha. now on a normal day about 18,000 people go through the gates and go see the grand canyon. much obviously today is not a normal day. the gates are closed. tourists are fed up and local business owners are telling us it is killing their bottom line. >> millions of dollars are being lost every day. >> reporter: the superintendent he of the grand canyon national park is not mincing words. the government shutdown is crushing the area, especially this town which depends on tourist dollars. >> sad, it is truly sad, to drive around grand canyon national park and it is like a ghost town. >> reporter: while the gates to the grand canyon remained closed, hotels sit empty. gift shop revenues are plummeting the local rafting industry is deflated.

forcings many companies to bring their season to a costly end. >> we're losing about a million dollars between our company and all the other companies that run october trips. >> reporter: business owners and local leaders so fed up they stage ad protest outside the gates on tuesday. >> open the park. >> reporter: many are offering up their own money to reopen the tourist attraction. so far they have raised almost $400,000 but the superintendent says it is not that easy. >> only congress can open the gate. record record according to the mayor, until that happens the fissure in washington will continue to hurt a community that depends on the grand canyon. >> put on the big boy pants, come on guys, you're fighting national politics and you're not feeling the pain. >> reporter: i asked one business owner how painful it is. he told me it is excruciating not only because the money they're losing. they're telling seasonal workers to simply go home and come back next year. that doesn't include the 2,000

national park workers who have been furloughedded, martha. martha: wow!, open the park like the lady says. will, thank you very much. bill: as will said, the government shutdown forcing people out of the park. keeping world wore two veterans out of a memorial in their honor. somehow hundreds of protesters got on the national mall for an immigration rally. how did that happen? we'll talk to a filmmaker on the scene shooting the video. what did he see going on with his own eyes. martha: head-scratcher. new reports that the white house was warned that the online exchanges for health care were not ready for the launch. but they decided to go ahead with it anyway. details on that next. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does.

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helps cover some of what medicare doesn't pay. expenses that could really add up. these kinds of plans could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you'll be able to choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. and there are virtually no referrals needed. so don't wait. with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. this easy-to-understand guide will answer some of your questions and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. martha: so is the president now ready to talk? he has just invited all four congressional caucuses to come over to the white house. the groups will come in one at a time and discuss all of this with him. so is this the beginning? as we enter day nine, we welcome

everybody to hour two now of "america's newsroom." glad to have you with us. i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. good morning. the controversy heats up by the day as you can clearly see. double standards now. hundreds of immigration protesters given access to the mall yesterday only a week after veterans were locked out barricaded from the world war ii memorial. the house gym is open while hundred of thousands of government workers remain furloughed. martha: there is so much outrage about this story right now and this one in particular. the pentagon has suspended the death benefits for the families of these fallen soldiers and marines including the five who were killed in afghanistan over this weekend but fox military analyst lieutenant colonel oliver north says that the president could solve the issue for those families quite easily. >> all it takes is a commander-in-chief with a conscience because the chief

executive of the united states can do it with a stroke of a pen on a presidential emergency action document. he could have done it yesterday. he could do it now. and those families would be covered. bill: ollie north there. chief white house correspondent ed henry on the north lawn. ed, there is outrage on a lot of sides of this political fight. where is it now, ed? >> reporter: that's right. at the end. president's news conference yesterday myself and couple other reporters were shouting at him about the military death benefit issue because he was not asked about it by other reporters. we were trying to see some clarification as you heard from colonel north there whether there is some executive order, some executive action the president could take to clarify this and solve this problem once and for all. he didn't answer that. he maybe didn't hear it. there was a lot of shouting back and forth as he walked out of the room. bottom line the national outrage is building about this we're told defense secretary chuck hagel will be going to dover air force base today to greet the remains of those fallen heroes

as their families greet them at dover in delaware. senate majority leader harry reid yesterday said something needs to be done. take a listen. >> it's shameful and embarrassing. there are no words to describe this situation that i am at least capable of expressing. that america could fail the families of our fallen heroes. appalling, frightening. everyone can come up with their own description. >> reporter: now bottom line is what the white house would much rather be talking about is what the president was dealing with the a the news conference yesterday. trying to say he might accept a shorter term bill to reopen the government while they deal with all the various issues to deal with broader budget issue. instead some of these narrow issues that are very important are geting a lot of attention and putting pressure on all sides. bill: try to nail it down with regard to the benefits for those killed in battle because john

boehner said this was taken care of last thursday. >> reporter: right the bottom line -- bill: lawyers got involved and said they can't do this which lawyers -- >> reporter: lawyers at pentagon saying the bill the house and senate passed president signed into law dealing with military pay making sure folks in the military were not harmed by the government shutdown, republicans say they thought that dealt with the death benefit issue as well. lawyers suggesting no, it did not give them latitude to pay out the $100,000 benefit to famlist of the fallen. republican duncan hunter said last night on "the kelly file" that the pentagon should have alerted everyone sooner so think could fix it. >> that is three or four more days the family will not have what the government owes them and they were expecting to live their lives every day. dod needs to get this right for a change and quit making stupid boneheaded mistakes like that. >> reporter: hunter referring to the fact that the house passed

another bill to deal with this issue specifically. senate hasn't done but takes them a couple days to follow up what the house does and meanwhile these families wait. bill: ed, you didn't get a question yesterday or did i miss that? >> reporter: i didn't. bill: tick somebody off? >> reporter: maybe they didn't like some of the previous questions. i'm not sure. bill: raise your voice a little more. >> reporter: i tried. bill: ed henry from the north lawn. martha: he is never shy. meantime the deadline to raise the debt limit is eight days away. october 17th is when the treasury says america will run out of money to pay its bills and possibly default on the debt payments for first time ever. a growing number conservative lawmakers say there is no need to raise the debt limit. senator rand paul is among them. he talked to us about that last hour. he said the president is using the threat of a default as a scare tactic in his opinion. here's what he said. >> he has been president for five years and he has added

$7 trillion in debt. the only time he negotiated something that was good for the country was when the sequester happened at the same time we raised the debt limit in 2011. he will not negotiate unless he is forced to negotiate. his mantra, his personal belief system, everything he is a about is adding debt unconditionally to this country and i think he is dragging the country down. bill: from last hour, rand paul there. democrats are blaming republicans for the ongoing stalemate. here is connecticut congressman jim heinz calling the republican condition on the shutdown malarkey. he was on with sean hannity last night. >> the senate pass as budget and for six months the republicans do not go to conference. here is why, sean. here is why you don't negotiate the full faith and credit u.s. government. if i showed up at your house with girl scout cooks sis and gas can in another and said i will burn down your house unless you buy my cookies you will not

negotiate with me. you don't get to negotiate with the full faith and credit of the united states government. martha: it happened many times in the past in fact. there are questions how much longer president obama will be able to refuse to negotiate. chris stirewalt, fox news digital politics he had and -- editor and host of "power play" on foxnews.com. good to have you here. >> arsonist girl scout? this is getting out of hand down here. martha: would get the badge a lot quicker. might be on to something there. oh my goodness. oh, my goodness. chris, i think issue how these military families are being treated may bring this really the to the forefront in a way that might get everybody to sit up and pay a lot of attention here. is this the moment tturning poi? >> it is certainly shaping up that way. we, looked for a period of time that the republicans in congress were handling all of this so poorly that they were bound for

irretrievable political failure. but as it turns out that the bad handling of the administration in dealing with the shutdown, how you administer the shutdown may trump anything we saw from congress as they were engaged in their internal fights over the president's health law. this is really, really bad and for this not to have been resolved, and as ed henry points out, an administration that expressly ignores laws that it finds inconvenient from time to time as every administration does, this administration does to a greater degree than others, to stand on legalism for not funding funerals for people killed in combat on behalf of the united states is so heinous that they have opened the door wide for criticism about the way the president's team is handling this. martha: chris, this isn't going to go away. >> no. martha: the congress was under the impression, the john boehner was under the impression this

was included. when they secured the benefits for veterans it would be extended to their families. they felt like it was a done deal. then they find out lawyers gotten involved at the department of defense and also the justice department and potentially as nbc is reporting, white house lawyers as well. looks like somebody went in and circled this one section and carved this out, they will not get these benefits. we know this from everybody tweeting this morning they want to know who made the call. >> and if you would, a smart political play, just talking about the cynical politics of all of this, the smart political play for the president here would have long ago, well a day ago or more than a day ago said, i don't care what it says, we're doing it and they can sue us if they want to. the republicans can sue us for funding the funerals of people killed in action. guess what, no one would have sued. the president today, the pressure is going to be very great on the president today to either come out and say i have fixed this and this is being

done, or, or, and this is important, we heard from harry reid earlier, oh, this is all very sad. this is all whatever. guess what? how long can the senate blockade legislation that provides full funding for this? how long can the senate blockade full funding for the national institutes of health and cancer research? not that long. martha: chris, what we've seen the president do in these cases kick it back to congress and their intransigence. look, if it weren't for those stubborn republicans what he always says, we would be moving on with this issue. this is a moment when he could, sort of take it in his own hands as you say, say, i'm going to reopen this benefit for these poor families right now but, that there is not a precedent for that in the way it has been dealt with so far. >> no. and with the president's position that the republicans are undeserving, undeserving of negotiations, that they're not worthy of this, is obviously breaking, as he says. he is inviting the members of

congress to the white house. martha: what do you think about that? is that a mover? >> yeah, that is a mover. this is how this happens. liberals, the clarion call, there may be a path to success here, for the president, and for the country in reopening the government and getting things running again is the president's political base, very alarmed today that he will end up negotiating after all this talk. what they want him to do in pieces across the left side of the internet make it clear. what they want for the president to accelerate the debt ceiling smash-up so that he can punish the republicans and have them learn their lesson. the problem is, and as those sad photographs of caskets coming back from afghanistan show, there is a cost to beyond what any politician is willing to pay. martha: chris, thank you very much. we'll see how those meetings go. >> you bet. martha: with caucuses at the house and this situation is what is in everybody's mind, these very sad pictures this morning, a testimony to what we're going

through with all of this. chris, thank you. >> you bet. martha: politics page. sign up for the political daily newsletter. go to foxnews.com,/fox news first. put email in the box and you get it every day. bill: sure will. tell us what you think about the shutdown and how do you decide the debt ceiling. send us a tweet @billhemmer and @marthamaccallum. the lines are open now. we're looking for solutions. if you look at the calendar, the deadline is next thursday. the way this is going back and forth. if you have four separate meetings with only one starting later today -- martha: a couple of days of meetings packed in with two or three groups tomorrow. bill: clearly going into the weekend. that pushes out to monday and tuesday of next week. martha: people are clearly ticked off, you know? they are really not happy with how this is playing out. they want to see a resolution. 62% of them in the "fox news poll" say they want to see the debt ceiling issue tied to real spending cuts. so that is the way that people

feel according to that. we'll see what happens. there is brewing controversy over why some shutdown closures are being strictly enforced and others are not at all. >> nancy, did you visit, did you visit the vet memorial today? >> not yet. >> are you going? >> i go all the time. >> are you going today? nancy, go today, make sure they can get in, okay? >> i don't go to grandstand. martha: i don't go to grandstand. the filmmaker who confronted house minority leader nancy pelosi at an immigration on the national mall will tell us what he saw there. bill: isn't that what congress is supposed to do? we'll talk to republican senator, john barrasso, standing by live on the hill in a moment. martha: a chemistry experiment gone wrong. how one student's quick thinking kept a classroom explosion from becomeing a lot worse. >> i remember hearing a bang. turning, looking seeing her hit the ground on fire.

i froze up for a little bit. and then, then just ran, ran into the room to go get the fire blanket and then i threw it on her and is really all i remember. check it out.

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bill: high school student, state of georgia, did some quick thinking after a chemistry experiment went the wrong way. the explosion caught on security cameras. a teenage girl standing nearby. she caught on fire. one of her classmates, the soon of a police officer, look at that, spank into action, grabbed a blanket and put out the flames -- sprang. he credits a teacher for helping by pushing the girl to the ground. douglasville, georgia. martha: there is new reaction this morning after congress proposed creating a super-committee to get together to try to indthe government shutdown stalemate but haven't we tried this before? louisiana congressman charles boustany said lawmakers have plenty of committees to deal with debt and with spending.

>> this just got sprung on us and i have deep concerns. it looks a lot like the super-committee that we know didn't turn at so well back in august of 2011. these are big issues and i think they ought to be dealt with through the committees of jurisdiction that have been working on these issues. but the super-committee failed back in august of 2011 and i'm very doubtful that any super-committee right now can fix this problem. martha: does he have a point? 20 lawmakers would be on the bipartisan super-committee, 10 hoist members and 10 senate members. republican john barrasso is chairman of the senate republican policy committee. good to have you here. >> thanks for having me. martha: we're hearing a lot of this. congress needs to do its job. it has been sent to do its job. the formulation of yet another committee i think is going to add, in many ways to the outrage that we've been seeing out there. i want to pull up the poll numbers as we get started here. congress has extremely low approval numbers.

13%. another committee what we need, senator? >> well, there are a lot of proposals out there. that is just one of the proposals. the president i think said he will veto that, if he does pass. you need to get the president involved. the president has to discuss and negotiate with congress as he seeks to raise the debt ceiling of the united states. martha, this is the sixth time in five years the president is asking to raise the debt ceiling. and when he was in the senate, he called it unpatriotic and a failure of leadership to have to raise the debt ceiling. he need to be involved in the discussions. martha: well, that may be. but in terms of what congress needs to do to bring forward something that the president might be able to get interested in and get opened up to, i was reminded of bowles-simpson. much the president himself instructed erskine bowles and alan simpson to get together. they came up with what many people across the country thought were strong, good ideas.

it just went away. it failed by one vote and we never heard much more about it. where is the, sort of the stronger sense of common sense in congress today? >> well, you're right. the bowles-simpson proposal the president did not embrace it. which tells you the president has to be involved in these discussions. it is not enough to just have the house and just have the senate. now the president today said he is going to invite members of congress or the entire congress to the white house. i have specific questions for the president and they have to do with raising the debt ceiling. you don't get a new credit card without first addressing the problem of spending. the president has to discuss that before he is allowed to raise the debt ceiling. the amount that he is asking for, martha, is over a million dollars every minute, from now until after the 2014 elections. people all across the country know this is the time to actually talk about spending, before one raidses the debt

ceiling. and actually deals with, with cutting the spending. getting spending under control. martha: senator chris van hollen, who we wanted to speak to today, who we hope will be here tomorrow, congressman van hollen, i should say, they're saying they will talk after you guys agree to pass a clean cr and a clean debt ceiling. then they want an extension over that period of time as part of the agreement. then they say they will sit down and talk about negotiations. what do you think? what's your response? >> give them what they want and then they will have the discussion? martha, the american people know that is not right. you can not raise the debt ceiling of the united states by that kind of money that the president is requesting without having the discussion beforehand and getting the commitments beforehand about the fiscal discipline that we need now as a nation to put ourselves on a responsible, sustainable, financial path. you can't just say, it is okay, mr. president, you can now raise the debt ceiling for the sixth

time without significantly discussing the problems we have in this country with spending. martha: understood. thank you very much, senator barrasso. it appears that the american people know across the country we're on an unsustainable path and they want congress to do something about it. good luck to you and all of your colleagues there. we'll talk to you next time. thank you, senator. >> thanks, martha. >> one thing is opened and one thing is closed. seems the government shutdown is affecting certain people and not others. so who decides? bya, because you asked. we'll get an answer. martha: and a woman literally caught stealing lunch money, almost $2 million worth. she put it in her bra, actually, over time. and very interesting story. so stick around for that. bill: that would be a sloppy joe. martha: sloppy joes. ♪

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martha: well a california woman was caught on tape stuffing school lunch money into her bra. she is now charged with embezzling $1.8 million. authorities say that judith oaks stole from the rialto school district over eight year period while she worked as an accountant. the mother of three was arrested after the incident was caught on video. she resigned the next day. >> 1.8 million in her brassiere? martha: that is like the john any cash song, one piece at a time when he spilled the cadillac over all these years. that is exactly like that. bill: a piece at a time. martha: one piece at a time. bill: you know the story about the pentagon confirming it is freezing death benefits for families of fallen soldiers including five americans killed in afghanistan over the weekend.

that move sparking outrage from military families and supporters who say our nation's heros deserve better. who could argue with that. that brings us to bya. because you asked. you delivered. who decides where the money goes during a government shutdown? shannon bream is here with an answer. shannon, good morning to you. in other words who decides what is essential? whose job is that? >> reporter: well, good morning, bill. there is lot of deference given to individual federal agencies to decide who and what gets paid out but there are some pretty strict guide lines in place. there is this very old law called the antideficiency act. it is a federal law that prohibits the federal government from committing to expenditures or contracts that are not, quote, fully funded. technically, get this, it is a felony to spend taxpayer money if there is not appropriation from congress to cover it. that said, here are examples, a number of things have funding to continue or by law they must continue. for example, seniors will

continue to get social security benefits. the labor department shutdown plan means unemployment benefits will continue. and the agriculture department says it has got funding to provide for food stamps. on the flipside, if you're being audited by the irs right now, audit activities are suspended during a government shutdown, bill. bill: hmmm. what we understand about these military benefits is that the lawyers got involved because they're the ones are who charged with interpreting the law. on the issue of paying out death benefits for paying military families who is responsible in that case, shannon? >> reporter: a lot of folks on the hill say it is unprecedented territory and it is a very novel question. this is the front and center because of deaths jennifer moreno, cody patter ton, jeremiah hawkins, jr., all of them who decide in our service to our country this weekend. normally aim past $100,000 goes to the family of loved once for

immediate needs to help with travel and expenses. the pentagon said as long it continues, they can not pay death benefits. congressman duncan hunter, a veteran himself says that is not the case. >> we passessed pay our military act t passed through the house and the senate and the president signed it on the 30th of last month. that does cover this. congress is a lot things. we're not always stupid. we saw this coming. that is why we passed that bill. this is an on purpose, in your face, middle finger as you said. so eloquently, to the military families. >> reporter: by the way a private agency, the fisher house, a private group, said it will cover the payments and help these families. also very notable, secretary of defense hagel himself will be at dover air force base when the fallen soldiers come in. something he would not normally do. he has to be aware of politics and how this looks.

we're told he will be there to welcome the fallen soldiers home today. bill: thanks for getting an answer on that. twitter @billhemmer. you can send a tweet. the lines are open. bya. because you asked. available now. 29 past. martha, what is next. martha: what is next a film make their attended the immigration rally yesterday on the national mall and got an earful. wait until you hear what he saw down there when we come back. >> it is appalling. our government has sold out foreigners. our president has sold out to the foreigners. and i am one veteran that is sick and tired of it. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare?

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>> they have hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens and

most of them came to speak english. but yet, the american public is being walked out of the memorial is and are fighting and being honored with us. we can't even get into see this stuff. it is just appalling. our government has sold out to the foreigners. our president has sold out to the foreigners and i am one veteran that is sick and tired of it. on a scale of one to 10, i am upset at level 10. in fact, that doesn't even reach where i am at. bill: we have dennis michael lynch with us now. a filmmaker. he went to the mall to see what was going on. can you give me a play-by-play? >> well, if you want to start with the illegal immigrant rally, i felt like i was back down in texas along the border.

i mean, they were welcome to come on in. it was like this. >> are you saying that they are illegal? but they weren't citizens? >> they were not citizens. i didn't get to ask all 10,000 of them, but the majority people that i spoke to, are you undocumented, they didn't understand what i was saying. so there's your answer i guess. but if you go over to the veterans memorial, what i see? american citizens standing outside the memorial, taking pictures and they can't get in. one that says don't come in, another one that says stop, don't come in. it's a punch in the face of the american citizen. >> which memorial is that? >> what you are seeing is that sign sitting at the world war ii memorial.

>> what if we would've wanted to see jefferson and lincoln? >> it's the same thing. looks like lockdown. we don't want you here. but when you go to that mall, there was a concert there in the treatment of american citizens is despicable. the president of the united states is not leaving unless the vicious behavior is leadership. there were people at that immigration rally climbing on some of the statues that were there. nobody was doing anything. you know how many police were at that rally? they were countless and they were on horseback and it was all over the place. yet we don't have the funding and it doesn't match. trying to hurt the american people. >> this is selective enforcement who gains access, that is what you are describing? >> that is what it is. but they are trying to do, what the administration is trying to

do, and nancy pelosi ever showed up at the veterans memorial, what they're trying to do is squeeze the american heart and it is with a knife right there. so that's where we put the pressure to stop august. this is not the way to go about it. the way to go about it is stand behind senator ted cruz because he understands right now how bad obamacare will be for this country. if you think things hurt now, you wait to see what happens when you get the perfect storm. amnesty and obamacare colliding. it is the end of the american worker for the middle class. bill: apparently lawmakers were arrested that were standing out in the middle of the street blocking traffic. did you see that? >> you know, i would not even give them the courtesy of putting my camera on them. it was a big huge grandstand. i will not help to promote them.

bill: dennis, thank you for sharing your story. it is definitely interesting. martha: here's a question this morning. did the white house know that there were significant problems in the launch for obamacare occurred more than a week after the signature lock off to a rocky start, the problems are piling up. as we are looking at new report suggesting the president knew that there were going to be a lot of glitches months ago she bill: a ban on sportsmanship? why one is outlawing the postgame handshake. we will have that story next.

bill: kentucky is blowing the

whistle on the postgame handshake. more than two dozen fights over the past three years over the tradition of bending sportsmanship. but some say it is necessary to it avoid confrontation. schools can could overrule the state and allow the handshake to be held accountable if there is an incident in. martha: i have seen so many of those moments. as i know that you have. i think it is one of the best parts of the game. you watch other two coaches interact. it is such a shame. martha: starting to report the crimes of the obama administration was repeatedly warned by health officials and major insurance companies about potential problems in the new obamacare website. for months leading up to this, more than one week later, many americans are still having problems accessing the site. our chief political correspondent has more.

the website, health insurance marketplace, a lot of folks have seen now. did they know, who knew, and who is warned? >> is certainly a problem and we are talking about top officials at the department of health and human services. they were having conference calls. this was a big project and rollout to happen october 1. this administration is not that ready to go. which isn't a very big surprise. there are lots of news reports that suggest that this whole thing isn't ready to go. the president had delayed the employer mandate. and they really couldn't eligible whether people would be

able to get these are the exchanges. they were calling for defunding underlaying and i think there was a lot of bureaucratic and political momentum to just go ahead and get this thing going. martha: when you think about it, it's almost like a business run and paid for by the american people and there is taxpayer money that is supporting this thing. so do we have the right to know whether or not it was a good business decision. >> that's exactly the question that congress is going to be asking. there is a "new york times" story yesterday about these problems. and the white house had declined, saying that they just didn't want to and that is not going to be good enough for congress and already the energy and commerce committee in the house controlled by republicans, cathleen sebelius, has the figures of enrollment, which he has not given out. she said that she doesn't know. and you will have members of

congress looking into all of these glitches and problems of the rollout. this is a multibillion dollar taxpayer money project and you can bet congress is going to want to know what is going on. martha: it could cost more money because of these glitches. in terms of a business decision. it could end up being a different one. it may be more costly than anyone thought in their worst anticipation. >> that's right. administration officials are attributing all of this to high demand. so many people who want to go on a website that they haven't been able to handle it. but we have been getting a lot of people who are involved in this work saying that they have bigger structural problems that have to be fixed and many say that we are working 24/7. this is a very expensive proposition and that is going to

spark congressional interest. martha: it's interesting because quantifying how many people are now in the program -- that is when the individuals will be able to extrapolate the program. so this is how many people signed up. so do we know -- do we know when the monthly report, when the first one will come out? >> they are promising mid-november, perhaps we should've said that before this whole thing started, but that is what they are saying. it's not just the expense, but the number of people who sign up will determine whether the whole project of obamacare actually works or not. and they need 7 million people to sign-up. the whole idea here jesus everyone and it will not work. martha: it will be interesting once we get those numbers. thank you for staying on top of the developments for us. >> thank you. bill: there will be more

developments and jon scott will pick that up for us at the top of the hour. >> we have got shutdown showdown, day nine. there is no end in sight. both sides appearing very dogged. the president, unwilling to link. as some suggest, the fault might not be such a bad idea. we will talk to joe trippi, charlie turkoman juan williams. plus, an anti-biotic resistant strain of disease. why women are not living as long as their mothers. and a biker gang assault case here in new york, one of them incredibly surprising. that is coming up in about 12 minutes. bill: watching this now, testifying about the benefits

and the payment of veterans and how they will or will not be affected by the shutdown. we will have more right in a minute after this break it's going to cost me an arm and a leg. that's hilarious. sorry. you shoulda taken it to midas. get some of that midas touch. they tell you what stuff needs fixing, and what stuff can wait. next time i'm going to midas. high-five! arg! i did not see that coming. trust the midas touch. for brakes, tires, oil, everything. (whistling)

martha: a hearing continues in congress were for former general eric sasaki is testifying that they cannot guarantee that benefits will go to veterans during the course of the shutdown. let's take a listen. >> is the shutdown does not end in the coming weeks, the va will not be able to register the delivery of november checks to more than 5.18 million beneficiaries. and that accounts for $6.25 billion in payments that

people tommy. compensation come out indemnity compensation, fiduciary educational vocational rehabilitation and benefits, including veterans are 100% disabled. surviving this, often the death of a military or veteran parent. this includes eligible family members and education programs. they will also stop. martha: a big issue and reality of what we are experiencing right now. bill: house lawmakers say we will take action after freezing death benefit the families of fallen soldiers. families denying the usual 100,000-dollar payment because of the shutdown.

they have stepped up and are willing to help these families. good morning. >> thank you for having me. bill: what can you do? >> i think we got it right last night it is certainly demoralizing to our nation and families and what we can do, during this government the government shutdown, come together as a veteran friendly business and in my case a nonprofit that serves wounded warriors, special operators, and veterans in hospice care to provide our expertise to support the family. in our case, more specifically we provide airplane tickets in and out of military hospitals and air force bases. for these family and for any

families we commit to providing those if need be. so i would also say that there's a lot of great organizations out there. the fisher house, as you mentioned, they mention their support today as well as north's freedom alliance, many others including ours as well. bill: and you are doing great work. this was passed last thursday and is expected to be a go and they said suddenly by law they cannot do this. >> that is right. they can all go into a room and act philosophic the rest of eternity as far as i'm concerned. but when my neighbor needs help, i will be there for my neighbor. bill: do you believe that the law prevents these payments? sumac just have to believe. a bystander looking at it, it is

very hard to believe and i would also think that any young person going into a recruiting station today to volunteer for armed services might be thinking twice about it. because they are just as dumbfounded as we are. bill: we will stay in touch with your group. i know we are short on time. thank you for coming. luke's wings foundation. martha: a stern warning from president obama. resulting in economic catastrophe. are we headed for a depression if washington doesn't come to an agreement? some say possibly so.

martha: so getting this figured out, what you think? >> next wednesday. >> a good day before the deadline. bill: maybe they even extended a few days after that. there's definitely movement right now.

martha: i think that this idea that you will get an agreement and then work on the new agreement right after that is something that people have had it up to here with. but we will see. coming up, 11:20 a.m. eastern time. martha: we will see tomorrow. happening now starts right now. >> brand-new store is the only see here. jon: iran makes a new offer to limit its nuclear program. but the devil is in the details. a disturbing new a medical fact. american women are living shorter lives than their mothers. what is the blame for this? and a woman the woman who gained fame now wants a new trial after she was convicted of murder. it is all "happening now." ♪ ♪ ♪