p.m. the o'reilly factor is on tonight. >> it is unfortunate that the administration -- >> the man leading the charge to defund obama care gets shouted down by far left activists at a conservative event. but at the time cruz may have the last laugh. >> i'm actually glad that the president's whole political staff is here instead of actually doing mischief in the country. >> we'll have the latest on the showdown in d.c. we're going to do a challenge. i'm going to try and download every movie ever made. and you are going to try to sign

up for obama care, we'll see which happens first. >> okay. >> anger over the obama care rollout is boiling over. and now republicans are demanding answers on what they call an inexcusable mess. just how bad is it? oh, it's bad. we'll have a special report. don't i have free speech, sir? >> and a college campus bans a student from passing out copies of the constitution on constitution day. how'd that happen? >> you have to go through the rules and regulation that is have been set. >> but why are there rules and regulations set on free speech? >> now the student is fighting back in court. we'll have that story. caution! this is my finger. and you're about to enter the no spin zone. "the factor" begins right now. hi, i'm greg gutfield in for bill o'reilly. thank you for watching us

tonight. the government shutdown and me, that's the subject of this evening's talking points memo. whenever something bad happens, some bozo will call it a learning experience. i've had a lot of learning experiences, ask my wife. but with the shutdown it's true, for example, i learned that 93% of the workers at the environmental protection agency are non-essential. now i didn't major in math, but i'm pretty sure that's more than nine out of ten. of the 16,000, roughly 1 grand are essentially making the epa as necessary as shoulder pads on a snake or another hangover sequel, or vermont. so we learn the difference between essential and non-essential in government. a non-essential employee is what you get when a citizen foots the bill and the government doesn't care. twer wallets, they are the spoiled brats. in a private business, a non-essential employee would be a non-employee. he or she would be home eating

funyuns, which are delicious, scratching and looking like andy dig. and a non-essential employee is what you get when you feed cash into a bloat ed bureaucracy, without ever designating its necessity. it's a lot like the movie "the blob," but without the happy ending. now for the top story, joining me from nashville, scotty hughes, and from washington, richard fouler, beautiful picture behind him. a radio talk show host and former policy director for the young democrats of america. scottie, wouldn't a private company with nine out of ten non-essential workers sink faster than michael moore in a ball pit? >> well, completely, that's the thing, greg, if a small business is in a crunch, what they do is literally go into survival mode. they cut out the fat and do what it takes to exist until they are

ready to grow again. well, that's different with our economy and our government because when they are in survival mode, all they have to do is raise taxes and they solve their problem. that's how we have got into the problem we are in today. >> richard, i have a theory, i have many, many of them are wrong, but i believe the shutdown illuminates what's not needed, it's like one of those infrared flashlights that show dirt in hotel rooms. isn't that kind of true, you kind of see the stuff that, eh, maybe we don't need that, you call downstairs and get a new pillow? >> greg, i wish it was that easy. that's just not necessarily the tloout, though. if you talk to the world war ii veteran who is went to the world war ii memorial and found it closed because the park rangers couldn't be there, you would say they are essential. or talking to the 30 children who can no longer get cancer screenings. they would argue those staff members are essential. while there's a distinction between essential and non-essential employees, the non-essential employees are still critical to making this government run. >> well, richard, you raise a good point that i dislike veterans and ill kids, but i think that raises a question,

scottie, that the administration might have been picking and choosing what to shut to create what they would call political heat, because if you actually made peace-mill budget changes, you won't have the pressure to make a decision or compromise. >> you're completely right. it's funny that you mentioned spoiled brats in your talking points because that's what harry reid, nancy pelosi and john mccain are acting like because they think ted cruz's filibuster was a p.r. stunt gone bad. in reality, it's fantastic because it accomplished things. >> it shut down the government, how did that accomplish anything? >> it did not shut down the government. this administration has tried to punish people like the world war ii veterans, they tried to punish people with the sequester back when they were getting chemo, they were trying to make people hate the republicans. the good news is despite the liberal media spin, the american people are not buying it. they're seeing through because the administration is keeping a

third of the 1700 of the staff members of obama, and we're seeing the congressionals, their gyms being open, so the administration's obviously using this to punish those that actually are speaking out against them. >> listen, i've got to tell you, i wish i could agree with you but i just don't. the reason why the congressional gym is open is because john boehner controls that. but the only people acting like fifth graders on the playground are the republican caucus and the house of representatives. they want to open things to allow them to run campaign ads in the next election so they can put out their political winds. at the end of the day, the president is trying to open the entire government and nobody can seem to answer the question why we shouldn't open up the entire government. >> that's not what the debate is about, though, you don't need to open up the entire government. and you have to admit, the priorities here are screwed up. you talk about stopping clinical trials, but keeping the gym open. it's like this is a decision being made by a blind man using

a dart board. it doesn't make any sense. and you can't use that to say we shouldn't have a shutdown or we shouldn't trim government because it's done incompetently. do it competently. >> richard, to your point n all honestly, yes, guess what? the congressionals and the republicans have approval ratings dropping, but ted cruz's are going up. the president's are going down. so the american people are siding with what ted cruz is for, which is to make cuts. it's simple. these are the lowest ratings that president obama has had going into office. the lowest rating in congress and for republicans. >> anybody that wants to back ted cruz is just fine because he allowed us to default on our debt. >> it's the democrats that are making us default. >> that's the problem here, ted cruz has september out more fund-raising e-mails than my mom gives sweaters at christmas. and it is just ridiculous. >> i like that line. but the point is, so do the

democrats, richard. you're guilty of the same thing. if there's a republican president, let's go back to senator obama who was okay with defaulting on the debt back before he discovered politics. >> well, i hear that, greg, but the government never shut down under george w. bush. we always came to the table and worked with the president. what we have seen from this party is they will do anything possible, including the good faith of the united states government to go bust to take down president obama. mitch mcconnell said it four years ago, they wanted to make him a one-term president and now they will do everything in their power to make sure the president fails. and it's horrible. >> richard, your wrong on that. it is because we have the money in the bank. we have the interest to cover our debts. but let me recommend this book that was written by a wise philosopher. >> when china says that they are concerned that we might not, we might default on our debt, we have a serious crisis on our hands. >> no, we are going to default if obama allows us to.

we have the money to, but you need to go read this book that talks a about the joy of hate. and in this book it will tell you that they go after the people that make common sense. that's why they are going after ted cruz. >> greg has to send me a copy. >> a surprise plug. scottie's coming back. next on the rundown, senator ted cruz turns the tables on a bunch of nasty hecklers during a speech. we'll show you the tape. >> ma'am, thank you for being here. i wish you would participate in the democratic process through speaking respectfully. and then was the rollout of obama care a complete catastrophe? or a total catastrophe? we'll debate the finer points

in the impact segment tonight, as you may know, texas senator ted cruz is at the forefront of the government shutdown debate facing criticism for democrats and fellow

republicans. today while speaking at the value voter summit, a conservative event in washington, d.c., cruz was shouted down by some far left immigration activists. >> it is unfortunate -- it is unfortunate that the administration -- >> who are those goof balls? the factor is investigating the group responsible and bill will have a special report on that on monday. i'm not sleeping until then. joining me now to react, let's bring in my five co-host dana. you are heckled a lot to and from work, usually by children and the clergy, is it a badge of honor to be heckled?

that means you've made it. >> right. some people take it as a major compliment. if you are not getting the far left to come out and heckle you with a paid protester or whoever they were, if you're not doing something to get heckled, then you're not doing it right. that's their perspective. i crumble when things like that happen to me. >> you're a tough girl. i'm pretty certain that these are left-wing hecklers, because do you notice, there are never any conservatives/there's not a lot of conservative hecklers because they are usually working? >> because the inherent nature of their conservativeness, they are just too polite. >> it's the benefit of being a leftist or part of a left-wing group, there are so many around doing nothing. in fact, the political is personal to them. so actually going to some place and yelling at somebody and personally disrupting where they work or whatever is considered a political act even though it's personally obnoxious. >> and this is what you would call a protest backfire. so senator cruz handled it

beautifully. and he stands -- he kind of loves it. and for the left, they love to make him the boogieman. he's the new guy to hate in all the tea party ted cruz talking points that you'll see, watch this weekend. in all the talking points you'll hear from the left, ted cruz will be mentioned every single time, but i think it backfired on them today. >> it's an outgrowth of the obsession with the tea party in general, for the left the tea party is like the prom date that turned them down, that they can't seem to stop thinking about. >> does that still hurt your feelings? >> yes it does, actually. >> i can see that you're still scarred by that. >> i am. it gives me the power to achieve. all right. let's turn to a new wall street journal poll, which i love to do. basically says no one is faring well in the face of the government shutdown. 60% of those polled said they would vote out every member of congress, including their own representative if given the chance. now, dana, you are used to being disliked by your own friends who

find most of your behavior unacceptable, isn't it purely american, dare say, patriotic, to hate politicians and politics in general, because you're busy with your own life being an individual? >> perhaps so, and that's changed, although i think this poll is different. usually you'll see polls that say everybody hates congress but they love their own congressman. this time around, the trust in government is the lowest it has been in four years. 80% of the country thinks washington, d.c. has us on the wrong track and 11% approve of congress. these are completely different world views of what is happening all across the country, but in the state legislatures, the republicans continue to do really well, but nationally they are not. and their brand has taken a hit, but what you'll hear from some on the far right is that the hit was worth it. >> yeah, republicans do well locally because they think locally. they don't think globally. >> and shop locally. >> they do that as well, well, i don't know if they do that, but is it fair to compare the numbers of congress to the president when the president is a single entity. the congress is a group of

people and, in fact, it's like people would generally like david over goliath, so a sole figure polls better. >> i don't think so in this case. what's interesting on the right and the left, and president obama does this a lot, he's both the victim and the victor in every single issue. they'll attack him mercilessly because it's him but he'll claim it a win. you look at the obama care rollout, and that's a great example saying the government is going to be so great, the new program is going to be so great, if it's not, then it is also the opponent's fault because it's not great. >> yeah. republicans are always unpopular because of the anti-santa clause, so by being unpopular, isn't that almost a mark of achievement? or am i just spinning this? >> i think you're spinning it. >> am i spinning it? >> and it causes you to constantly lose elections, then i'm not going to fall for that again. i'm not going to fall for the polls are wrong again. it was too heartbreaking the last time around.

i think that the polls are serious, but i also think that if you're looking at the 2014 elections, the republicans are in pretty good shape. nate silver of the 538 blog came out today and said that the media is overplaying the shutdown, but the media overplays everything. >> ted cruz actually contacted you. >> i thought this was pretty interesting. so i was against the de-fund tactic early on and said so, maintained that. on tuesday, "the five" went down to washington, d.c. we mentioned this on monday night, headed down there, i'm on the train, i thought maybe i would hear from somebody in congress, anybody, any smart p.r. person, the only office that contacted me was senator ted cruz and invited me over. i had a wonderful chat with him for about 15 minutes. and i think that the politics of the personal getting to know somebody actually works really well because i might not agree with the tactic, but i think he's a great guy. >> you should have told him to get darker ties. >> darker ties -- you have been giving a lot of fashion advice today. you didn't like my shirt, you

said it was halloween. >> you look like a tiny pumpkin. you look like a dana o'lantern. >> do you want to talk about this segment? they took away my pillow so greg would look taller than me.ppene >> it did happen. that was wrong, but i'm willing to see past that and see over your head to the teleprompter. onward and upward, i say. dana, nice job on "the five" today despite me being out. you seemed to handle it okay. the gop is now investigating the botched rollout of obama care. how badly damaged is the president's new health care

in the factor follow-up segment tonight, it's been a tough month for obama care. it's maiden voyage made the hiddenberg look resilient. this resulted in an online nightmare for people trying to register with websites crashing and refusing to load. yet the president continues to hide, i mean stand behind kathleen sebelius, the head of the health and human services department, and she's not just getting a lot of blame for the mess, she's becoming a punch line. >> we're going to do a

challenge. i'm going to try and download every movie ever made. and you're going to try to sign up for obama care. we'll see which happens first. >> okay. okay. >> how many have signed up thus far? >> fully enrolled? i can't want tell you. because i don'tknow. >> so how big of a catastrophe was this? joining me now from l.a., fox news contributor, leslie marshall, and from washington, mark thiesen, a former speech writer for former president george w. bush. has obama care been a total catastrophe, a complete catastrophe or a total complete catastrophe, one of the three please? >> i'm sorry, greg, i can't hear you. there's something -- there's something wrong with my audio here. it's not a catastrophe. for crying out loud, twitter nearly crashed when it first started. it's very typical when a website, and the fact i'm talking tech talk at the moment is frightening, but when there is a high spike with any company

when they start a website, even twitter, this can happen. and quite frankly, greg, it shows that so many want it, the system crashed for everybody saying nobody's interested, nobody's interested in signing up. >> wow, that's pretty amazing. twitter crashed because millions of people were getting on it. i think there were five people in iowa that signed on and they thought they were trying to get a free vacation. they didn't know it was obama care. any website owner can tell you how much traffic there is, how many sign-ups there are, the fact that they are not doing it is a little fishy. when the head of it, the head of the ceo, so to speak doesn't know, that's a little scary. >> yeah, no, if they had good numbers, they would be shouting it from the rooftops. the fact they are saying they don't know means the numbers are absolutely terrible. if it's true they don't know, that's absolutely pathetic and dangerous. think about it, if they don't know how many signed up, how would they know how many people signed up are eligible for the

subsidies? how do they protect against fraud? this idea leslie mentioned it is because so many people signed up, the administration's going out there and saying, 8 million people went to the website in the first week, you know how many people visit amazon.com every single day? 20 million people a day. and the difference is, on amazon, it doesn't crash, and two, on amazon people actually buy something. nobody wants to buy obama care, that's why they are not touting the numbers. >> leslie, this brings up a philosophical point, apple could run obama care obama care could never run apple. one's about people, the other is about a program. isn't that the problem? >> no. one is in the united states and manufactured here, and one likes to use sweat shop labor, in addition to that, one has to do with health care and reforming our current system and providing insurance programs, which apple doesn't for millions of americans. no question, computerwise, is apple more savvy than our

government? no question. this is not about a computer program. and quite frankly, any program that we've had in america, whether we use computer or not, has had numerous changes, numerous glitches and then criticized overwhelmingly, medicare and social security are two that i can point to. >> leslie, you're spinning like an ice skater on aterol. the point i was making was that governments don't have business models, that's why people go to government because they don't have a business model. marc, the fact is only businesses can do business, the idea that you believe that the government can handle insurance better than insurance companies is absurd, no? >> yeah, well, americans are looking at this and saying the federal government can't manage a basic website. how are they going to manage the health care of millions of americans? i mean, that's what's being demonstrated right here. and the reality is, look, this isn't because, there have been numerous articles in the wall street journal and reuters and other places that is isn't just because of high demand.

the platform is flawed. it's going to take weeks, months and possibly a year to fix it. so you know what that means is going to happen? they're going to have to delay the individual mandate, because you cannot punish somebody, penalize them for not signing up for health care if the website that you set up to allow them to apply for health care doesn't work. so what's actually -- the irony here is that this rollout and the debacle that is this website might actually accomplish what ted cruz and the house republicans tried to do and couldn't do, to delay the individual mandate. >> that's actually an excellent point because i wonder if the shut down was unnecessary, this whole fight was necessary because it would have allowed more attention on this horrible rollout. i'll give you a softball question, leslie, are we just being too early to criticize? >> absolutely. the bottom line is if you were -- to me, what are you going to say a year now if people are happy with it, like the president says row won't call it obama care anymore? and if this was bush care, it was originally a republican

maryland, the health reform concept, this wouldn't be given the concept. give it the time, if it fails then put it to a vote. and i think people are going to be very happy with it. it is more affordable. and by the way, marc, when you say the government can't handle health care, the congressional members, the senators, the president seems happy with their health care, and everybody on medicare does, everybody that walks into my husband's medical center are very happy with it. >> seven people in louisiana. >> the biggest advocates from obama care are running from it like its godzilla. plenty more ahead at "the factor" moves along. why did a california college ban a student from passing out copies of the constitution on constitution day? i don't know. so we're going to find out together, which is exciting for both of us, or all of us. later, congress gets a chance to question top officials at the i.r.s. and one democrat uses his time to ask about witchcraft. it's all on camera and it's

offensive to

in the unresolved problem segment tonight, how should republicans approach the debt ceiling deal with president obama? nick gallespie says the gop should play dirty as possible and he joins me now. nick, it's good to see you and your jacket. what do you mean by playing dirty? >> what i mean is that obama has been obsessed about talking about cleanliness when it comes to a debt bill, it has to be a clean bill, no strings attached. and he's like lady mcbeth or something, he's obsessed with getting things clean. but, in fact, we want a dirty bill here because the whole point of the debt limit is that it says you cannot borrow more than this. any increase in the debt limit, i think, should be tied to immediate and ongoing cuts in how much we spend going forward. >> how dirty should this be be?

>> as dirty as you want it. >> yes. >> no, it should be -- i think that the best way forward would be to say, okay, we're going to give you a couple weeks for the people in congress to get together with the president. we'll raise the debt limit for that. and then we say, okay, in a year's time, we're coming back and we're going to have a plan to cut entitlement spending in the future, and that has to start now, though. because if you look down ten, 20, 30 years, medicare and social security are going to bankrupt the country. they cost too much now, and we haven't even got on the the point where they really explode. >> isn't the idea of or the threat of breaching the debt ceiling, isn't that the only way to get anything done? we talk about it as we're going over this cliff, but before you go over the cliff, you actually do something to stop you from going over the cliff. that's the whole point. >> yeah, and it's a little bit mendacious when the republicans say he just wants to spend

money. you pull out the clip from 2006 when he was a senator and he says it's a failure of leadership to increase the debt limit again. we shouldn't do this. and that also tells you in 2006 the republicans were actually running the show. so whatever party's in power always wants to spend more. and they always -- they are like wimpy from pop eye, they want to eat the burger now and pay you next tuesday. we have been doing that for so long we have 100% of gdp, all economic activity in the kriuni states, we owe that in debt and we have to start tackling it now. >> what's great is that senator obama just called president obama a failed leader, because right now he's -- he believes that raising the debt limit, well, back then he said it signaled failed leadership, so basically he just called himself out five years ago. >> and this whole thing of the idea there's never been a zirty deal with strings attached is historically wrong. about half of all debt increases since 1978 had some strings attached or came in a bundle

with other things. so that's just wrong. and then i also love, and some republicans fall for this where obama says, how dare you use the debt limit debate or the debt ceiling debate to talk about spending. if we don't immediately agree to spend more money, we're not going to be able to spend more money. it's nonsensical and the idea this gets reported by the media with a straight face. i think when you're coming and begging for an increase in your debt, that's probably a pretty good time to talk about spending, what's gone wrong and what has to change starting tomorrow. >> it's a circle of stupidity. if ypend more, we won't be able to spend more. >> and we're not going to talk about it. you know, i think a lot about this in terms of my colleague and co-author matt welch talked about this as junky logic. if you have friends, and i suspect you have a few, who are drug addicts, they are constantly saying, look, i just need one more hit, i need one more fix. and in this case, obama isn't even saying, look, this is the last debt limit increase ever,

he's, in fact, he's not saying that, he's just saying give me more now and then we'll talk next week about how much more you'll give me. you know, that just isn't that way to run a country. >> wasn't he like that in college? >> i am betting he was. >> does anybody remember the sequester? i remember the rhetoric of the sequester, it was the apocalypse. what happened? >> every kitten that was born since the sequester died. >> exactly. >> the sequester cut 1% to 2% of total federal spending over a certain number of years. it has gone basically without a hitch. i mean, it's one of the reasons obama -- you have to give him credit for this, you can give me more money because i cut the deficit in half. you cut the deficit in half because of the sequester which you said would kill baby sheep overnight. >> exactly. >> it's like, please. >> nick, thank you so much. and don't forget, we have a new bill o'reilly dot com poll

question. in your leisure time, how many hours do you spend on the net? that's the internet. including e-mail and texts. less than one, between one and three, more than three hours? bill will give you the results on monday. the i don't own a computer and do all my communication via etch-a-sketch. when we come ba

the o'reilly factor, the number one cable news show for 13 years running. >> thank you for staying with us. i'm greg gutfield in for bill o'reilly. in the personal segment story, we have three hot topics, starting with a constitution

controversy. last month robert van tynen, a student at modesto student college was handing out copies of the constitution at school when a campus police officer intervened. check it out, check it outers. >> as a student on campus, you can't pass out anything whatsoever. you have to have permission from the student office. >> isn't that a right of my rights, sir? >> it is, but you'll have to go fight them. i'm temperaturing you where to go and giving you a solution. i'm not trying to stop you from doing it, i am telling you there is a process. >> you are stopping me. >> that took place on september 17th, also known as constitution day, also known as five days after my birthday, thanks for the cards. van tynen says his speech was violated and he filed a lawsuit against the school. joining me to discuss this from l.a., john phillips, a radio talk show, and remy spencer here in studio.

remy, i go to you first. do you think this would have been an issue if he handed out salamanderbrochures or same sex instructions? >> i think the police officer handled himself professional according to the school's policies, but this is a bad policy. that's why he's filed a lawsuit. this lawsuit is not really about money, it's about getting the school to change their policies. there is nothing wrong with someone passing out the constitution, particularly on constitution day. and i do not believe that the school policy is going to remain in effect. and they have issued a press statement and i believe they will be changing it, although they're not commenting while the litigation is pending. >> i did a lot of passing out in college. john, they actually have free speech zones on campus, shouldn't the whole campus by the very nature of open minds be all free speech? >> you're exactly right, greg. these campuses should be free speech zones all over the place, but they're not. in fact, they're some of the most restrictive places on the

planet. you have hate speech, indoor voices, you have outdoor voices, you have gender neutral language, can we please just leave these poor people alone and let them do their remedial math in peace? >> good point. well, it is a community college, wonderful people there, by the way. next up, a ridiculous item, the u.s. postal service has halted the distribution of a series of stamps that were inspired by the first lady, michelle obama's just move campaign, because some of them featured children not wearing safety gear. so, john, will you join me in saying thank goodness we got rid of these dangerous, dangerous stamps? >> i have objections to the stamps, but not for the same reasons as the usps. my objections are, why are we being lectured on exercise by the laziest people on the planet. i don't know if you have seen the latest video that's gone viral on youtube of a mail carrier in georgia who literally drove the mail cart up on somebody's lawn because she didn't want to walk up to the front door to drop off the

package. >> i happen to like my postal carrier, alovely, lovely person. remi, you're a lawyer, which means you would sue a kitten just for fun. if a cutten actually got hurt after buying this stamp, would he have a case? >> absolutely not, of course. let's be clear, i defend people, not sue them for a living. nobody would have a case. this is the most outrageous thing i've heard. we wonder why the post office is becoming obsolete. i'm not sure young people know what stamps are these days because everything is done through e-mail. these are not photographs. this is artistic and a good thing. and for the post office to be saying, no, no, to the stamps because someone might get injured is just a bunch of nonsense. >> but i happen to think before we move on, john, that the stamps are dangerous because they are encouraging kids to go outside, which are a nuisance to me. it's better if these kids are inside 24/7 playing xbox so they don't run into me and make me angry. >> yeah, but they are -- they do

stick to the letter, so if you try to lick them, then you have problems with your tongue. so there's lots of problems there, greg. >> all right. in switzerland, which is an actual place, remi, citizens will vote on the proposed minimum wage for $2800 a month. the aim is to provide a financial safety net for the population, which i think you think is a great idea. let's just pay people to be people. >> well, wouldn't it be nice to get some sort of guaranteed salary from the government? but what does that really mean and what is that going to do to business? there are a number of businesses in switzerland that aren't complaining, that it's going to make them move out of switzerland. companies like nestle and other chocolate companies, and i wonder what's going to happen if the chocolate products aren't available to men and women. we'll have a lot of angry swiss people. >> john, quickly, what do you make of this? >> well, in switzerland they love their direct crack incy and the initiative process. it reminds me a whole lot of california where i'm sitting right now. it doesn't mean it's going to

pass. >> all right. okay. my problem with switzerland is isn't it time to drop the land, we get it, you're not a body of water. you have been around 1,000 years. remi, john, thanks. bill's brand new book "killing jesus" is number one on the new york time's best selling list this weekend. and if you become a premium member, you get any of bill's big best sellers free. on deck, a democratic congressman injects witchcraft into the i.r.s. scandal. you don't want to miss this. look at that

in the back of the book segment tonight witchcraft and taxes. this week sarah hall ing ram, the woman in charge of the irs division that targeted conservative groups testified on capitol hill. in an effort to mock those critical of her, congressman crawley said this. >> have you been consorting with the devil? >> not to my knowledge. >> are reports that you can fly accurate? >> greatly exaggerated, sir. >> have you been involved in any way in trying to pervert our youth in salem or anywhere else? >> i certainly hope not, sir.

>> are you sure? >> yes, sir. >> ironically the congressman is a warlock from middle earth . joining me with reaction, david callahan from the progressive think tank team. isn't this an insult to wick cans by comparing them to the irs? >> this is a priceless moment in congressional testimony. great tv there. what bothers me about the this irs schedule as this goes on and on is it's missing the big picture here which is that the nonprofit sector has become this major conduit for political money on both sides. millions of dollars going through supposedly nonpartisan organizations. you have this little back water unit down there. the irs unit in cincinnati that, you know, screwed things up. we have been looking for politic

political. >> when a democrat or liberal administration screws up it is always bungling. if a republican does it, it's evil. you know if this would have happened under a republican administration you guys would be uh on top of it. smotheringing it with a giant pillow. >> congressman issa is doing the thing the party out of power does which is use the investigation's congressional subpoenas -- i mean, there is a dangerous weapon. congressional subpoenas, congressional investigations. you can turn people's lives upside down and darryl issa has an appetite for that bare knuckle combat. that's an abuse of power that goes far beyond anything we saw in cincinnati. >> who has more power is the irs uh. they can turn anybody's lives upside down by auditing them which is why i think they are the greatest organization ever. you would agree with me i think that the irs is the greatest.

we have nothing against them at all. even president obama won't dismiss the scandal. he said this is egregious what happened. are you saying he's exaggerating this? >> here is the big picture. the irs gets 60,000 applications for tax exempt status every year. you have 300 people trying to evaluate the applications. what do they do -- look for key words. tea party. so it turns out they look for occupy, progressive, israel. anything that's politicized because it helps them speed the process of going through applications. they shouldn't have done it. that was wrong. that was incompetent and obama acknowledged it. it's not a scandal. we are missing the bigger picture. too much money is going through tax exempt nonprofit organizati organizations. it is political money going through the charitable sector.

>> in terms of the key terms it was lopsided. i don't know how many -- 8 of 10 were conservative. that's political. >> you know why it was. all the tea party groups sprung up all over the country. many of them closely allied with the republican party. a lot of them have partisan purposes. they were tyinging to get tax exempt status. maybe the unit did the wrong thing. but it is not like there weren't people trying to get the tax exempt status for political purposes. >> if the irs has been sharing private information which there seems to be information about that maybe leaking to the government. what do you think b about that? bungling? >> more bungling. i don't see a partisan scandal here. keep in mind the irs people worked republicans and democrats, career civil servants. been around for decades in the

system. these aren't political operatives. >> you really don't want to be audited, do you? >> i hope after today i won't be. i'm the irs's best friend. >> you're safe for a couple of years. i don't know. i think any time somebody is doing something political and being targeted that's an issue. >> it is an issue. i don't think you can just dismiss it as bungling because you have sympathy. >> when a lot of people are trying to get tax exempt status for political purposes it's not surprising the irs looks at groups with the political label in the title. >> we have to move on. up next, morgan freeman, robin williams and george bush will be here -- sort of. if you leave now, it will be over between us.

before we go tonight for those of you who missed "fox &

friend fre friends" this morning check out frank caliando. >> morgan freeman style. [ as freeman ] >> he has everyone from freeman to john madden. dr. phil. [ as dr. phil ] >> what were you thinking? >> that's what's on the prompter. how would those guys solve the stalemate in washington? comedian frank calie ndo joining fox and friends this morning. >> when you think about it -- frank asked himself five things. [ as robin williams ] >> don't have a joke, just switch voices. >> welcome to a news program. those are talking points. >> that's it for us tonight. thanks for watching. i'm gutfeld in for bill o'reilly. check out my book "the joy of

hate." every one comes with a shiny cover at no extra cost. the spin stops here because we are looking out for you. "the k." thanks for watching. welcome to "hannity." tonight we need to set the record straight. the obama/reid shutdown. rising tensions. americans losing trust in elected leaders. this happened because of one thing only -- obama care. over the next hour with the help of the studio audience made up of distinguished guests and experts from both sides of the aisle we'll explain why. since washington won't have an honest conversation, we will right here on this show. >> i want to be absolutely crystal