>> posted the first quarterly loss underneath him. >> that esite for "forbes on fox." thank you for watching. keep it here. the number one business block continues with my buddy eric bolling and "cashin' in." stay tuned. ♪ ♪ it's not only glitches crippling the healthcare exchanges. some say the real problem is the shocking premium they find when they get the law gone. is this the final proof that they can't afford the shutdown. and are we shelling out big bucks for the big bird? will we ever slash our debt? you can expand here. how about expanding over there? how the anti-wal-mart crowd may send wal-mart jobs to china. "cashin' in" on the job starts right now. hi, everyone, i'm eric bolling. welcome to "cashin' in." the crew wayne rogers,

jonathan hoenig, eboni k. williams, michelle fields. remember when the president promised us obamacare would do this? >> save a typical family average of $2,500 on their healthcare costs in the coming years. save families $2,500 in the coming years. >> this is a tweet from folks who are finding it it's costing them more. three times more. a man said he checked out the exchange but the lowest premium is three time what is i'm paying now. we have been warning that this might happen. time to rename it unaffordable care act? >> for many, many people, eric, the premiums are going up substantially. exactly opposite of what the president promised. it's no surprise, really, we were predicting it on this show for well over a year. where do lower premiums come from? where do the lower price come

from? man's ability to think not the government willingness to force. that is what obamacare is. it's no healthcare freedom in this country for decades, less and less. obamacare eliminates it completely so just like education you will see costs go up and the quality go down, more and more that obamacare continues to grow. >> unaffordable care. i have a better one. obamacare? how about obama doesn't care? >> the best part of is it when they went out on the street recently and asked people which do you prefer, affordable care or obamacare? people didn't know the difference, they had no idea what people were talking about. you have a bill here 2700 pages long. with all the regulations. there is no way for anybody to understand what it's about. there is no way for people to comply and no way as you said, this won't be cheaper. it will cost us a bundle before we're through. >> eboni, the cbo, congressional budget office tells us what original was $950 billion, has been $1.8 trillion.

as the people, the young people aren't signing up, they are finding out the premiums are so high, that number could increase substantially, because if people choose to take the fine or the fee or whatever you want to call it, the tax, instead of signing up, that $1.8 trillion could go higher. >> well, that is where we as young people, eric, got be more holistic in our view and approach thisto this thing. yes, the premiums are higher for younger, healthier people. i am one of them. it looked online as well and saw the price was sticker shock. but look at the big picture here. there is a new day in terms of the standard of healthcare. no long rer people turned away for preexisting conditions. yes, that will cost more in short-term. long-term we will be better off. look at big picture here. >> michelle, erboni says young people should be more holistic. should you be more holistic or less holy unsatisfied with the bill, the law? >> well, i think let's talk realistically. what young people will do and what they have been doing is

logging on to the website if they're lucky and can do that and they have patience. they log on and they see the number they are supposed to pay. they are not paying for it because it will be so much money. there is a reason why the obama administration hasn't released the number of people who have successfully signed up for obamacare. that is because nobody is signing on. obamacare relies on young people to sign up. if you look at all 50 states the premium go up 260% on average for young people. do you think young people sign up nar and try to take a holist lick approach? get real. they are hot -- histic approach. get real. they are not. >> if we don't do it in the short-term we pay for it in the end anyway. so people who don't have coverage or aren't getting preventative care, they cost us big bucks in the end. you and i both know that. >> let me bring this -- michelle brought something up that is very important. one of two reasons why president bam become and kathleen sebelius the administrator of obamacare don't know how many people signed up. either it's so low as michelle points out or so completely incompetent. jonathan, they had four years

to get this up and running. what is happening? could you predict a bigger failure than what we are seeing? >> even just look at the cost of the website, eric. they believe it was estimated to cost $ed 98 million, it cost $600 million for a website less than one in ten can get on. you will see the cost go up. unfortunately, eboni makes a false choice. it's a terrible system or government control. why not try a free market in healthcare? try the same success that made companies like amazon and apple able to lower costs and increase the quality? instead we live in the opposite direction which is why from every element from the cost to the quality if the government is involved you will see the healthcare get worse and worse. >> stay on the cost here. cost of families especially. another tweet. i was all for the affordable care act, aka obamacare up until my son's insurance premiums almost doubled and became anything but affordable. wayne, as we go along, are we

going to find out people will be dissatisfied with this. >> not only are they dissatisfied you can't name one federal program that comes in on budget. there is no touch thing. the government is out of control. coercive act. forcing people to do things. even the supreme court had to reach out and call at it tax because they couldn't make a judgment on the law itself. it's insane. we have abandon this thing and start over. that is the only way i know how to do it. >> i'm not sure they will get it done. >> they won't get it done i'm suggesting that is what they should do. >> they won't. they will piecemeal this.his so. the glass seigel act in 1990, testified before the congress. i said you will have a recession within ten years. that's what happened. they don't listen. >> michelle, you are young. have you tried to sign on and figure it out? it is worthwhile? what would be the number -- put hit the way. what would be the number that makes you want to rather take

that, what do they call it? the tax instead of obamacare. >> look, if there is anything above $200, i would take the penalty. a lot of people would say the same thing. young people don't even have jobs right now. if they, do they are not paid that much. they don't want to spend all the money on insurance when young people tend to feel as though they are healthy, nothing bad is going to happen this tome. they would rather take the risk than pay the money and subsidize all the unhealthy and the older people. that's what is happening. cost-shifting strategy that is going to fail. it's unfair to young people. >> john, last word. >> how deceptive as the president to refer to this as an "exchange." exchange implies freedom and making a choice. this is force. coming down to the plan. forcing people to buy maternity coverage, to buy mental health coverage is not what they want but they are forced to buy it to subsidize others who don't want to buy it. that is why the healthcare

plan is doomed to implode. >> i hear what you are saying but in a perfect world we'd all be individually responsible no one would be forced. i agree with you. >> leave it there. big bucks for big bird in middle of a shutdown. maybe it's time to shut that down. ♪ ♪ lelelelelele go to a mattress lelelelelele go to a mattress store and essentially they just get sold something. we provide the exact individualization that your body needs. before you invest in a mattress,

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hello, everybody i'm uma pemmaraju in washington. well, it's day 12 of the ongoing government shutdown. once again on a saturday, we have lawmakers on the house and the senate working once again to find a way out of the shutdown mess. at this hour, the battle shifts to the senate now that the white house rejected g.o.p. plan to end the shutdown and raise the debt ceiling. we'll talk to republican senator pat roberts who joins his colleague at a white house for the powwow with a president late yesterday and why he is calling for kathleen sebelius to resign.

you will also hear from michael reagan mo calls the standoff between the dems and the g.o.p. government by tantrum. he says today's leadership is far different from ronald reagan's era of getting a deal done. and military vets around the country heading here to d.c. war memorial to prove a point to the government. we'll talk to them and much more at the top of the hour. well, this one is for the birds. while there is outrage over important bills not paid in the shutdown, it turns out uncle sam paid half a billion bucks to the corporation for public broadcasting the home of big bird. michelle, i wouldn't say this ruffles your feathers but this is crazy. big bird? would that be one of the things you made sure got paid? big bird? >> what kills me is that the government was trying to prevent world war ii veterans getting inside their memorial but it comes to their friends at pbs they remain unaffected by the shutdown.

what i think the administration is trying to do make the shutdown as painful as possible for the american people. that's what they are trying to do. when it comes to their friends, they make sure they are unaffected. this is what happened with sequestration. the obama administration didn't cut back any salaries or any of his staff. what he did is cut the white house tours for the american people so they can't come visit. this is all politics and it's all trying to make it painful. >> all right. so, wayne, i went to the national mall. and the world war ii memorial was shut down. but there was a protest for illegal immigrants and immigration. that was open. they had park police there. government picks and chooses where they want to spend their money. a lot of times it's waistful. >> it's outrageous that he should pick out what he wants and not what the people want. that makes no sense. i read the other day people who were in the park out in utah wanted to photograph old faithful and the guard said no, you can't photograph it. what is that?

are we in a fascist country? what is happening here? >> eboni, dana perino brought to "the five" with the mountains but there was a barricade, that big. so people couldn't go through but they can see it. it's crazy. >> no, it is crazy. i'll say, you know, panel here i don't buy in the conspiracy but i don't think pbs should be funded right now. these are preappropriate rated funds allowing them to stay up and running and it doesn't feel appropriate. pun intended there. i agree with you on that. but we are asking the government to make smart priorities and we know they are not cape to believe do that because they prioritize politics over governing the american people. this is not surprising to me. >> john, go ahead. >> big bird shouldn't be funded in a closed government, eric, it shouldn't be funded in an open government. what is the role of government? is it to produce children's television? why aren't we subsidizing gary ganew as well? fun green groups?

of course not, the role is strictly defined. i disagree with wayne. the government's role is not to do what the people want. it's solely, supposed to be protecting individual rights. so, the role of government is supposed to be specifically limited. that is what the founders intended. it's not a democracy or majority rule, as alex grayson and others would have you believe. >> wayne? >> jonathan, the rest of that sentence is the majority rules with the concept of the minority. nobody finishes the sentence. that is the problem. >> john? yeah? >> well, i agree with that. so we senator thinking what about is the role of government? you think about the police, do you think about the military. do you think about the courts the initiatives and the entitlement. ebonti the first segment there is a reason why the entitlements like obamacare weren't included the constitution. not because of the founders didn't know what they were talking about but the roles for government. they are not supposed to be had under any system. >> michelle, jonathan points

out something important. as we get bigger, as we vary beyond just the protecting of americans, then you start getting in to some of the other things the entitlement and whatnot and they are blown out of proportion. >> absolutely. look at the government shutdown now. this isn't even a government shutdown. this is so huge. we still have so many programs still running. yet this is considered a shutdown. our founding fathers are probably rolling in their graves and laughing at us we think this is a shutdown. this is not. it's because our government is so big right now. >> right. >> 68% of the government is still going. >> 83%. >> okay. >> the by the way, there is 18 of them since 1978. coming up, they claim to be fighting for better jobs in america. but did the anti-wal-mart protesters just push more jobs out of america? no matter how busy your morning you can always do something better for yourself.

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coming up, heading to china. wal-mart planning to expand jobs overseas. are anti-wal-mart protesters to blame. plus, the president telling government

did these protesters put more american job against a wall? ask wal-mart, they are looking to expand in china. wayne, is the anti-wal-mart movement costing american jobs? >> absolutely. we know what happened in washington for example, the protest there. the wal-mart was going to open there. there are places that wal-mart was going to open in chicago outside of jonathan's hometown, they rose against it. they are going to china and this is an attraction they think they can do more business in china and do it

cheaper. they will do it. >> wal-mart are antiunion. they want the low cost services. goods. they bring in places where people would not necessarily be able to have those things. in the rural areas of america. in the american dna. >> create tremendous amount of wealth in the process. china should be happy wal-mart wants to set up shop. residential real estate values rise where they build store. you people lining up to shot there. people are lining up to work there. to wayne's point, protesters and union folks love to use the government to clamp down on wal-mart but they are clamping down against people achieving their values. they get employment and it's sad that wal-mart gets better treat in the china than the u.s. >> the biggest pushback on wal-mart is the unions because they can't get their grimy

hands on wal-mart. where do you stand with wal-mart? >> look, we can't have it both ways with wal-mart. they are in the business of not necessarily doing what is best for american citizens. they are in the business of making money. they do it well. i'm not big -- >> why are those mutually excluse sniff >> they're mutually exclusive -- >> go ahead. >> wal-mart has it set it up that way. wal-mart has it set up that way. the concern is not high wages or nice benefit packages for employees. like you said and eric pointed out correctly, their concern getting the most money for the shareholders at the cheapest return i'm not upset with wal-mart for going to china -- >> that is not exactly what i said. michelle, bring you in. i said wal-mart enables people in rural communities to have some of the things that people in the urban communities have and at a fair price. >> absolutely. they provide so many jobs , provide so much economic growth, but you know, there are so many liberals and democrats out here who treat them like they are criminals. you can't blame them for wanting to go to china.

look what wayne said. look at d.c. the union bosses push to make the minimum wage higher for wal-mart. only wal-mart. because they want to make it too costly for them to do business here. shouldn't we be promoting and trying to encourage businesses like wal-mart to open and expand? why are we trying to move them to china? >> right. talk about this. you are a free marketeer guy. wal-mart says we will focus on buying made in the usa. if the companies make stuff overseas they would rather buy from them if they open a plant in america. are you okay with that? >> i'm against it. i think the notion of buy american is actually un-american. american companies should buy the lowest quality products at the -- excuse me, the lowest price at highest quality. if they're made overseas that is even better. i allows americans to save money. the resources to be more deployed in more profitable and n productive ways. >> wayne, there -- >> that doesn't help american

jobs. >> wayne, therein lies a dilemma of a libertarian like jonathan. you want to be a free marketeer but patriotic. where do you stand on this? >> there is a blend there. one of the more interesting facts is that the garment business which was all in the united states at one time moved to china and india and is now beginning to come back. why? because the wages in those countries are rising. they are getting a middle class in those countries. some of those jobs are going to return to the united states. so capital. i as a theory works everywhere. >> michelle, i love made in the usa. it's just when you want to say total free market, it should find the best price. should it not? >> the patriotic thing is someone provides a service that is good and cheap. giving them more money to keep for themselves. made in usa is gre but i want a product that is cheap so me and my family have more money. whatever is cheapest.

i agree with jonathan. >> eboni, real quick. last thought. i want jobs come to our company so hard-working americans have opportunity. >> unitly they will come back because in those country you see a waging rising and middle class developing. they will come back to the u.s.. >> wal-mart pledged to buy somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 billion u.s. products. hats off to them as well. leave it there. thanks to michelle field and eboni k. williams for joining thus week. coming up, debt, deficit and deceit. the president saying he cut the deficit in half. we do the math. you decide. geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to. the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pih, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients.

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time for a quick what do i need to know for next week? >> this is a disturbing time to be in the market. put in your mattress and sleep on it for a week.

>> cash is king. >> right. >> john? >> i'm putting money in africa and the middle east. i'm having success in egypt. the middle east is a metion but i think you can make some money with that mess. m.e.s., a fund that holds middle eastern stocks. >> high risk, high reward. you guys were great this week. that's it for "cost of freedom" block. thank you for joining us. but before we go, for the third time this week i heard the president claim he cut the deficit in half. listen. >> since i took office we cut the deficit in half. >> that claim is as disingenuous as they come. even in a town chocked full of liars, thieves. the last year under bush deficit was $159 billion. your first year were $1.3 trillion, $1.3 trillion, $1.3 trillion. in 2013 it is expected to drop to $759 billion. claiming you cut the deficit in half is nothing short of b.s. you cut the deficit that you

yourself quadrupled and only to a level double your predecessor's level. how? demanding the bush tax cut expire and sequestration, which you disagree with. mr. president, we do the math here. obama math doesn't add up on "cashin' in" or on main street. see you on "the five." it's not too late for my republican colleagues to do the right thing for this country. no deal as far as we're concerned. well, day 12 of the government shutdown. once again, we have another stalemate between the house g.o.p. and the white house. and once again, we're seeing lawmakers working on a saturday trying to hammer out a deal to get the government open again at a time when we are also heading closer to the deadline on the debt ceiling. a short time ago, president obama rejecting another house plan to get everything open again. meanwhile, the senate is trying