good-bye, everybody. see you tomorrow. bill: that was tight. nice. good morning, everybody. fox news alert. we're watching america's hearse rows yet genset to make their frustration known. live look at the world war ii memorial. day two of the partial shutdown. veterans gather at this memorial this hour in protests yet again. what will happen? our cameras are there. good morning, everybody. a packed morning. welcome to "america's newsroom." i'm bill hemmer. martha: great to have you with us. i'm martha maccallum. this is a great event. it is scheduled to start about an hour ago. we could see something similar to what we saw over the weekend. >> shame on you. shame on you.

>> usa! usa! bill: there are many of the sights and sound from over the weekend when hundreds stormed the barriers surrounding the memorialing take being them down, the barriers that is, taking them to the white house. doug mckelway is live near the memorial. what are we expecting there today, doug? good morning. >> reporter: good morning. we're expecting a coalition of 33 veterans groups, well-organized folks to protest closures of the monuments. they say they represent 5.5 million veterans and their families. it is still early. it is not yet happening. really all the people we're seeing are just media gathering in anticipation of the event. it was a very, very foggy morning in the nation's capitol. the fog is beginning to lift. promises to be a absolutely beautiful day, temperatures in the mid 70s, crystal clear skies. perfect day to see that.

right now it is not happening as of yet. i doubt, bill, we'll see a repeat of yesterday, rather than on sunday, when veterans spontaneously gathered to start taking down barricades that protected national monuments and memorials on the mall. it was really spectacular scene to see so many law-abiding, mainstream americans, basically engaging in this kind of civil disobedience. they have been calling many of these barricades, bury decades or barack-cades. took them down in methodical fashion. many took the barricades to the front gate of the white house and laid them down methodically there it was unbelievable scene. today is a little different. this is different as it pertains to the veterans and government shutdown at heart. bill: i was going to ask you if you expect today is different from sunday.

that is something we're waiting to see to find out ourselves. >> reporter: that is true. what they're saying is they're concerned about, they're not takeing a political stand except to say that the government shutdown is basically hurting military readiness. it is hurting benefits that a lot of veterans get, a benefits a lost their families get. that is their message. i think their intention today is to be largely apoe lit call. things can take on spontaneity on their hone. bill: we'll watch your camera all day long. doug mckelway at the memorial. martha has more. martha: one of the more powerful speakers we saw at sunday's rally is former navy seal ben smith. here is what he had to say. >> there is no place to go past america. they shut these things down. if the veterans are quiet, the last bastion of americanism that this country has, this place goes to the ash heap of history.

do not let that happen. it rests on you. martha: ben smith is very fired up over the weekend. he will join us live this morning as we watch what unfolds at the world war ii memorial today. bill: also as our heroes protest one will be honored by the president today at the white house. army captain william swenson receiving the medal of honor today. 34 years old. credited with displaying and risks his life to save fellow troops during one of the most brutal ambushes of afghan war. helmet cam video captured swenson lifting a wounded comrade into a medical chopper, stopping to kiss him on the foreahead before returning to battle. swenson is the sixth living recipient. he has also been award ad purple heart and bronze star. we'll talk with the jennifer griffin about this. it is always a moment when the men are honored and medal is placed over their head. we'll see that today.

martha: remarkable videotape. we'll watch that with great interest this morning. all right, this fox news alert for you right now. could we be close to a deal on the debt ceiling today? looks close every than ever right now. we're just under 39 hours to go until we hit the debt deadline. the clock is up and truly ticking at this point. the senate coming up with a short-term extension. some would call it kicking the can down the road a bit. it would allow us to borrow more cash at least into the winter. senate leaders who have been at odds for weeks are looking more optimistic. >> had a good day. had a good day yesterday and another good day today. i think it is safe to say we made substantial progress. we look forward to making more progress in the near future. >> we're doing our best to make everybody happy but everyone knows we're not going to be able to do that. everyone understands we're doing the very best we can with all the frailties we have as people and legislators. martha: so what happens when

this hits the house? stuart varney is the host of "varney & company." so, stuart, first, what is in this new deal? tell us about it. >> let me give you the big picture. we can spend money again. the government reopens. you can spend money according to the current spending pattern all the way through till january the 15. and we extend the debt ceiling. in other words you can keep borrowing money all the way through until february. as you said, martha, that is kicking the can down the road. no change in spending, no change in borrowing, move the deadline a couple months forward. there are a couple details we should mention. number one, the unions won a one-year delay in something called the reinsurance fee. this is fee on all plans for people with preexisting conditions that join health pools. the unions won a one-year delay on that. no change in the medical device tax. that stays. that is still part of this deal. there is some question whether

or not you will have to verify your income if you go for a subsidy on these obamacare exchanges. those are details. the big picture is, no change in spending. no change in borrowing. you just kick the can down the road by a couple of months. martha: well and the union was squeaky wheel and they got something out of this deal it would appear. we'll talk a little bit more about that coming up in another segment so stick around for that. stuart, let me ask you this. if the senate approves this deal will the house republican who is have been very outspoken on all of this, are they going to go for it? >> i knew you were going to ask that, i have to tell you, martha, i can not count votes but investors think they can. wall street will open pretty close too a record all-time high. the dow is at 15,300. investors, wall street, believe a deal will be done. something will get through the house and a deal will be done. that is what investors think. i personally can not count votes. sorry, martha.

martha: one, two, three, four, i'll help you. stuart, thank you, see you later. bill: despite the shutdown, uncle sam wants your moolah. today is last year to file the tax return if you took a six-month extension. irs said many of the 12 million who asked for time still have not filed. if you are owed a refund you will not get that until the shutdown is over. very important question you had for stuart. house republicans are meeting right now in the capitol building. you don't know which way this will go. are they going to accept the deal, whatever the deal is or reject it out of hand? that will really propel events over the day. martha: folks are dug in on that front. we'll keep you posted how that develops this morning. this fox news alert for you. a massive rescue operation is underway after a major earthquake rocked the philippines. 7.2 magnitude quake toppled many

buildings and reduced them to rubble. roads were destroyed making rescue operations very difficulty hour. 93 are confirmed dead but we're told the number is expected to rise. >> we'll watch that. another dry ice bomb in a huge airport in america. what is going on here. multiple devices found this is lax in los angeles. we're there live this morning in a matter of moments. >> something is is up there. this too. a top al qaeda mastermind now here in america on u.s. soil. he is expect in a new york city courtroom today. ambassador john bolton, he told us last week, it will take a long time al-libi back to this country and it should. what does he think now? plus this. bill: man, oh, man. did you see that? a hair-raising experience for a young boater on a lake. certainly too close for comfort.

>> scared the bee jeep byes out of me. i out of back of my head. i can't explain it. almost like a knot to the back of my head. >> thank the lord protected me. i know that is what happened. hey, we got our cards, honey! great.

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martha: breaking news as they work to put together a deal. the house republicans are talking now and we know that there have been factions in the republican side that are very dug in on this issue that are not boeing to like most likely what they're betting in this so-called deal that was put together on the senate side. so are they going to play ball or are they going to take their ball and go home? that's a huge question that has to be answered here this morning and those are the microphones on the podium on the house side of capitol hill right now. we'll keep an eye on it. as soon as somebody steps in front of the podium to explain where the house republicans are on all of this right now we'll take you there live with breaking news.

so that is one thing we're having a very close watch on right now. >> you don't interrogate somebody like that for a couple days or couple weeks. this man needs to go to guantanamo bay for months or years for painstaking and elaborate questioning. bill: that is the voice of ambassador bolton here last week on our program talking about the accused terrorist mastermind captured in libya a week ago. al-libi is not in gitmo. he is here in new york city as we speak. he will be in court later today, 12:45 eastern time. facing charges for terrorism in the 1998 eastern embassy bombings in africa. so much for painstaking and elaborate questioning, john bolton. the ambassador is there now. you are chuckling but you don't find this funny. you thought americans should hold the man at sea for not weeks but months and beyond. explain. >> bringing al-libi back to the united states, a raining him this morning under a pending indictment in federal court is

the epitome of the obama administration's approach to the war on terrorism. that is, that we should handle it as a law enforcement matter that what al-libi has done over the years is nothing more than a series of bank robberies. what this means i think is that al-libi is going to use this criminal trial as a forum for propaganda for his own cause. i don't think he will give us any new information. i think it is very doubtful in the week or a little over a week he was on that navy ship that he broke his own discipline to reveal any new information if anything. he was probably giving us disinformation. and i think this represents a huge loss for the united states in the war on terror. bill: you don't think there is any possibility this guy that was taken into captivity, got scared and singing like a bird if. >> there is a chance of it and the sun may not come up tomorrow either. he knows from frequent proclamations by the obama administration, they just couldn't wait to read him his

miranda rights. they weren't going to do anything that might offend his sensibilities in the terms of the way they interrogated him and his discipline comes from his religious fanaticism. i think the odds are best we got was stuff we already knew, or, disinformation which i would actually worry about more than if he simply remained silent. bill: that is a good point. there was a lot of disinformation in the interrogation over past 10 or 12 years. we thought they would interrogate him for weeks. apparently he has bad health. identified as having hepatitis. a report suggests that he refused food and water. that is the reason why his interrogation was cut short. what do you think of that if true? >> poor baby. there are excellent medical facilities at guantanamo bay. i'm sure the doctors there could have gotten him back into good shape very quickly. you know, this is a fundamental philosophical choice for americans. do you think that the threat of international terrorism can be handled the way we handle robberies at a local grocery

store? or do you think we need to treat it as, i think is the proper way, as a war against the united states? we'll see what happens now, but i think the terrorists recognize they have got an administration that they can play for all it's worth and that's what they're doing. bill: do you have any idea about the evidence that we have against him? i mean this is 15 years later now. >> yeah. well, i think it's, it's a near certainty he was a ringleader of the bombings of the kenya and tanzania embassies back in 1998 and quite likely a number of other terrorist attacks. so i don't doubt that we've got evidence. the question is, can it fit the standards of an american criminal trial? is this evidence admissible? can we prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? now people say, but he is entitled to due process. no he is not. he is not entitled to due process anymore than any other combatant that takes up arms against the united states. that's the fundamental difference between the criminal law paradigm on the one hand and

the law of war paradigm on the other. bill: one more point. i want to emphasize this. you believe if this goes to trial now, that he uses the american legal stage for his own platform? >> yeah. i think it's a possibility he will plead guilty or if he pleads not guilty the kind of case he will present why america in effect is guilty. he will try to put us on trial. and i'm afraid under the rules we operate in criminal justice system he may well find a very, find as you very good propaganda platform. bill: relevant to the bombings in august of 1998 it is my understanding there are three others still wanted. you don't know if he will give up the names or if we know where the these people are. thisfy was living in plain sight in tripoli, libya when we picked him up. >> you have to ask him what involvement was there in the assassination of christopher stevens last september 11th. bill: do you think that is relevant? >> i think it is all relevant. he has been out there 15 years

since the embassy bombings engaged in a lot of terrorist activities potentially. i bet we found out next to nothing in this week of interrogation. bill: john bolton. thank you. 12:45 in court in lower manhattan. thank you, sir. >> thank you, bill. martha: we'll talk to former general mukasey, the former attorney general on that as well. a second dry ice ex-most -- explosion rocks l.a. airport . is this a prank? we're live to find out. bill: empty store shelves, all of it that their ebt cards did not have a limit. how did that happen, huh? >> what are people going to do? they can't survive without the food stamp card. >> people have kids out there, babies. old folks at home need to be fed. so she could take her dream to the next level. so we talked about her options. her valuable assets were staying. and selling her car wouldn't fly.

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martha: fox news alert out of los angeles international airport. where now the second dry ice bomb in two days has exploded. they found multiple other devices that were in the proximity of planes. will carr is there live. so, will, what's the latest? >> reporter: hi, martha. well the latest is that police say they found three dry ice bombs near the tom bradley terminal which is hyped me last night. i want you to take a look at some of the video last night. what authorities say happen that somebody took three bottles, put some dry ice on the inside of those bottles, screwed the caps on. when you do that you could potentially have a bomb. we're told that one exploded and nobody was hurt t didn't have any effect on flights at lax but this comes on the heels of another incident that happening on sunday where a dry ice bomb went off inside of a employee

restroom. we're told in both of these incidents on sunday night and monday night, they both happened in restricted areas. authorities say this appears does not have any link to terrorism but the fbi is helping in the investigation. they're taking this very seriously. we should also point out that back in september, a former tsa employee was actually arrested for making threats on l.a.x. we're told at this point there is no indication there is any link between the two. at the time authorities took that very seriously. they will take both these incidents both on sunday night, last night, very seriously as well. martha, back to you. martha: great story. bill: a prank or something more hyped it? back-to-back nights out there in los angeles. all those health care glitches online, did the white house know this would happen and not bother? we have a full report on that from, a warning months in advance. plus the president's old press secretary say the somebody should be fired.

why robert gibbs says the rollout of obamacare, flat-out embarrassing. martha: as his motorcade made the fateful turn that morning the world had no idea that an assassin was waiting for john f. kennedy. we'll talk to the author of a new book who said the conspiracy theories are not true. the lone assassin he believes was indeed lee harvey oswald. larry sabato coming up. >> the motorcade moves into the downtown area. death is six minutes away. in aware house a sniper with a rifle poised waits. the cheers of the crowd almost muffle the three shots. the assassin's aim is deadly. the area is aswarm with police, rangers and secret servicemen.

bill: 9:30 in new york now. the glitches still plaguing obamacare's online site. many logging into to healthcare.gov to shop for insurance met by error messages now in the third week. a new report suggests that the white house was made aware that the crashes would happen but didn't nothing to stop it because the white house didn't want to show you how expensive the plans really are. of the peter doocy is looking into this. there was a report out there suggesting that they knew about it last spring which is the month of march. what are you finding about this new report? >> reporter: bill, experts are saying anonymous shopping and giving customers the opportunity to review their options before creating a complicated account is critical for a successful

shopping website but at healthcare.gov, shoppers can't do anything until they create an account and just creating an account causes a traffic bottleneck that slows the website to a crawl, if it is even accessible at all. web developers say this could have been easily avoided but forbes is reporting is all part of the hhs plan, not the traffic part but multiple steps before seeing a price because that report says they fear folks will be scared away from open enrollment if they see prices that may be higher than theirs. that is why they want to calculate subsidies first. here's a quote from the "wall street journal" about why. here it is. an hhs spokeswoman said the agency wanted to insure users were aware of their eligibility for subsidies that could help pay for coverage before they started seeing the prices of policies. we're also now hearing that the feds ignored the findings of a three million dollar project they ordered, that is according to the report by ap. they spoke to a california design firm contracted to help

create the easiest website possible. they recommended anonymous shopping as a way to avoid the kind of crashes that we're seeing now. officials involved with that project tell the ap that leaving anonymous shopping out is a quote, major design flaw. bill: i bet. i mean, we have been watching you trying to log on for two weeks. how is that website working today, peteer? what have you found? >> reporter: not well, bill. it has been online for two weeks. the feds still won't tell us how many people have been to enroll. i tried countless times to create an account. i finally got an email hours after one of my more recent attempts when i was told the system was down, that i was good to sign in, go back to the website. i went back just a few minutes ago. still not able to sign in. bill: which state were you representing at that point? you bounced around all over the place to get on. >> reporter: i did. i'm trying to sign up to see my

options in virginia where i live, across the potomac. they sent me this email after i tried and tried and tried was told just to come back later. they sent me an email said, okay, come back. sign in. i went back to try to sign in and nothing. bill: how is that working out for you? peter, keep trying. we'll be in contact. peter doocy on the hill. martha has more on this. martha: meanwhile, a former obama insider, one of his top advisors in fact, is now slamming the rollout of obamacare. robert gibbs, who worked side-by-side with the president for many years, all the way through the first administration and way before that, he was white house press secretary, and he says that those responsible for the glitches should be fired for humiliating the white house. watch this. >> it is excruciatingly embarrassing for the white house and for the health, department of health and human services this was bungled badly. this is not a server problem, too many people came to the

website. this is website architecture problem. i hope they're working day and night to get it done. when they get it fix i hope they fire some people in charge. martha: wow. bring in bob beckel, former democratic campaign manager, co-host of "the five." tony sayegh, president of talk radio news service and fox news contributor. does that surprise you, bob? >> no. i suggest that he is right. i suggest bobby change his glasses. it is 2013. martha: advice from beckel this morning. >> you can't have something this big and involve this much of the economy and have mistakes like this. somebody's head ought to roll, or heads ought to roll. that will not change anything. you will still have obamacare but you should have somebody responsible. >> it looks, from, if you go deeper into his comments he is talking about kathleen sebelius. do you think that kathleen sebelius should be fired over this, bob? >> i'm not sure sebelius should. i certainly would, whoever was responsible for the architecture of the computer but i think you

will see calls for sebelius's resignation. i don't think she will be fired. now whether she decide she wants to put up with four years of being beat up on is another question. but, i think, look, she has been face of this thing and, you know, when you're the face of something you're going to take a lot of the heat and she is. martha: robert gibbs suggested, if only for the shutdown, that this is a much bigger story on the front page of every newspaper. in a way, you know, the shutdown may be camouflaging this hugely, deeply problem that gibbs is talking about here, tony. >> yeah. extrapolate the politics away from this martha, which is tough with obamacare because obviously they're two very partisan opinions about the actual law but the practical function of this website through which almost every american is mandated by march 31st to enroll in some sort of health plan is in of itself the argument for delaying it a year. it doesn't work. these aren't glitches. these are fatal flaws. gibbs nails it.

talk about front end problems. not server back end problem. high demand so popular obamacare that they're flocking to it. he debunks the line that administration, that popularity of obamacare is causing flaws. no, it is front end problems, actual architecture. you can't sign in easily. and when you do you can't log in. you can't anonymously surf. when you find a plan it is difficult to choose one because of these flaws. this is reason to delay it for a year until they fix. >> tony, let me ask you a question here, pal. you're in politics. when you have the other side on heels like you did with obamacare and democrats. why in the world, your responsibility, you decided to shut down the government take the heat off obamacare. if anybody to blame it is republicans, right? >> we can talk about the government shutdown, my opinion the house passed a continuing resolution to keep government funded. >> let as be real here. >> the president decided not to pass it. say this, this is where i would agree with you.

i would prefer jon stewart, wolf blitzer who recently said democrats should delay obamacare and because of glitches and robert gibbs make the argument delaying obamacare more than some partisan senators on my side. those are guys making better arguments. martha: raises this question about leadership and politics and who is running things at the white house. i think that is what gibbs is getting as well, bob. maybe there are sour grapes. robert gibbs was obviously one of the president's closest advisors. they go way back to the years in chicago. david axelrod was also one of his right hand men. these people are now out of the picture now and denis mcdonough is walking around the rose garden making big decisions with the president. perhaps gibbs is saying you know what? maybe if you hadn't nudged me and axelrod perhaps out the door you would have handled this whole thing better. is that a possibility? >> i think you hit nail on head. i've been in the white house before where people were let go and biggest critics of the white house within a week are people let go.

think there is some of that here. these are people that were responsible for running one of the more flawless presidential campaigns and now they're sort of sitting on the sidelines watching what, to them, computers, which is something that they really innovative in politics. >> i think it is more than sour drapes grapes. we've known the chief architect of obamacare in march said he was afraid when the website debuted people would have a third world experience. gao said in june it wouldn't be ready. the president pushed this through just to meet a deadline for political purposes and pride. martha: that appears to be obvious at this point? what happens now, bob? if it is true, kathleen sebelius embarassment of riches some people signing up we can't deal with them. robert gibbs saying absolutely not this is structural. this will go on for a long time. at what point does the president need to fest up, we have a problem, folks i need to be honest with you, about it? >> deadline is january 1st. look in california where they took the responsibility for

health care, as a lot of states did that were blue states, it is working fairly well. in red states, who refused to deal wit, left it up to the federal government it is not working well. >> zero people enrolled in california. zero people enrolled on the exchange in the state you're citing is success story. >> you don't know that. you do not know that. >> well they're not releasing data. but we know that after the first week. >> republicans have a right to health care i'm sure. but look, the they're the ones that didn't want health care. they wanted people uninsured stay uninsured or do something else. >> bob, what happens when the website doesn't work? >> this is not bad it will fall on its own weight. let it fall on own weight. give you a great campaign issue in 2014 instead of shutting down the government. >> part of that i agree with. bob, what happens by march 31st, when an american supposed to get health care under penalty of law can not access the website.

does the president give us an extension? does he give us delay like he has done for big business. >> let's wait until march 31st, tony before we project those things. it ain't even halloween yet. >> ain't working, bob. martha: we'll see if the computer can dim crime nate between republicans and democrats. bill: hold on now. this will be a headline. that is a bank of microphones in the capitol. we should see republican leaders sometime this morning. this is what we can confirm through rich edson and folks at fox business. what republicans in the house will push for is suspension of that medical device tax, 2.3%. they're going to push for income verification for subsidies, if you receive subsidies for obamacare. to verify your income. and also they will push for obamacare enforcement without subsidies for members about congress and all members of the administration. so that is the breaking news now, after this caucus for house leaders and house republican

members now concluding we believe. so stay tuned. watch the microphone there. also a close encounter, a little too close for comfort. watch this here now. whoa! >> i can't even explain it. it was like a, almost like a knock to the back of the head. i had a headache all day after that. it was just like this big force that hit me. heart healthy, huh?! ugh! actually progresso's soup has pretty bold flavor. i love bold flavors! i'd love it if you'd open the chute! [ male announcer ] progresso. surprisingly bold flavor for a heart healthy soup.

bill: all right. just before the break, republicans return serve. moments ago the details we get now. they will push for a two-year suspension of the medical device tax, 2.3%. income verification for those getting subsidies on behalf of obamacare. for all members about congress, p. art laugher, former economic visor to former president ronald reagan. art we brought you in to talk

about union deal. react to this. what does it sound like to you? >> i think three proposals republicans in the house are making are correct. they are ultimately the correct politics. why shipment congress and white house live by rest of the rules they make us live by? medical device tax is a bad tax and should be extended for two years so we look what it really will do. all of that makes tons and tons of sense to me. verification, if you get a subsidy, and income-based subsidy, shouldn't you have to verify you're eligible for it? this is common sense. i think house requests are reasonable and i can't man the democrats in the senate agreeing to it. bill: that is interesting. you're wondering in discussions with congressional leaders last week, the president, does he consider them to be reasonable. >> i think he does. the question, all of this bill, unfortunately is politics.

they're all playing for election in 2014. obama wants desperately to take over the house to run through another big agenda. i don't blame him. every president wants that. republicans want to stop it. i think obama thinks those three things are completely reasonable and clear. and proper. now the question is whether he views them being politically adept and embarrassing republicans in the house. i don't know. they're good proposals. >> we'll see when speaker boehner comes out here. we'll get back to that in a moment. this union deal that broke late last night. it would delay the law's reinsurance fee one year for union members. what does that mean and how critical is it, art? >> it means unions will have to pay less than they otherwise would for insurance. it's a sop to unions. i don't why obama and democrats want to do that, to be honest with you. it is improper. it should be everyone. not just union members. why thud she be singled out for

special advantage? this is politics, the worst form of it you're seeing here. come up with because they have such power. bill: let me remind you how the law has been amended since then. you think about all these factors, either delayed or subsidies been granted. medicare cuts delayed. employer mandate delayed. subsidy verification delayed. out-of-pockets cap delayed. i'm out of breath. small business enrollment delayed. unions get waivers. congress gets subsidy. i don't know if you can call it obamacare anymore. what is this law? >> this is a classic case of a whole system collapsing. you see bangs and pops in certain areas. that is what you're seeing. they're trying to bandaid it and fix it together. obamacare doesn't make sense, it just plain doesn't make sense. you can not give away valuable resources and expect people not to overconsume them. you can't afford to have them

overconsume them. all these things are trying to do this, fix that, in four years there will be no obamacare. i guaranty you that. bill: wow? how come? >> because it doesn't work. very simply when things don't work they don't work. you're finding all the exchanges and sign-up problems you're having. all exempt sense and all things you were losing your breath for. all of those are signs of cracking and breaking of obamacare t will keep going until repealed. bill: people see this stuff and hear about it. it doesn't make sense to them. like, why singling out certain groups for favorrism or for a subsidy for waiver and not giving to everybody else? republicans pushed for individual mandate to be delayed by a year. quickly, art, here is a headline on "politico".com. arthur laffer is back as gop taxman. >> oh, wow. bill: what does that mean? >> i'm not really sure. whatever it is "politico" writing an article about me, i'm flattered. bill: are republicans listening

to you? >> i don't know if they are or not. i'm speaking, let me put it that way, bill. i like what is going on in the states a lot. i think the house handled itself quite admirably in these very adverse circumstances. i think john boehner has done a great job. i think republicans in the house have done a good job. i don't think there is anything the republicans could have done honestly to avoid this conflict because obama wants conflict for the 2014 elections. you know, i've seen it happen, many, many years. i started in the nixon white house in 1970 with george shultz. it is deja vu all over again. this is a political world in washington and you're seeing the, you're seeing the consequences of it. bill: we found a little something out of your past, art. >> uh-oh. bill: for viewers at home, handsome man, with tie -- >> oh, my god. martha: great picture, art. >> oh, my lord. [laughter] bill: thank you, art. good to see you. bill: they had chalk boards back in your day, huh?

>> they did. i even know how to use chalk. bill: we'll see you again, art. >> thank you. martha: this question is coming up. should a person who is legally blind be allowed to carry a firearm? that is a debate going on right now. it is playing out. we'll tell you both sides. don't jump to conclusions until you hear both sides. that is coming up. bill: also honoring an american hero, risking his life to save his fellow troops during one of the more brutal ambushes in the war in afghanistan. this is actual recording from that moment. an army captain gets the medal of honor of his life. you will hear his story in minutes.

bill: they thought it was a

relaxing fishing trip. turned out to be somewhat of a shocking experience as you're about to see. it is cracking like popcorn they said. lake athens in texas. a teenage fisher man trying to get off the water as the sky went black. it was too late he said and saw that. >> if they had been going 10 miles faster, they would have been lined up right there where the lightning struck would have been the boat and could have been a whole different scenario. >> we could had our oddsrods up in the air and hear it synching with all the electricity in the air with all the metal on the rods. bill: that is the guy. they could feel electricity on the water. why he was using his iphone in the rain, i don't know. martha: he is a pro angler. he is a 16-year-old boater and pro angler. a pretty cool guy. we are glad he is okay. bill: cracking like popcorn. martha: now to a growing second

amendment debate that is going on in iowa where lawmakers and sheriffs are debating a law allowing those legally blind to carry firearms in public. garrett tenney is live with more on this. there is a lot of obvious questions, garrett. >> reporter: lots of questions, martha. the main question in this debate is, if you can't see where you're shooting, should you still be allowed to carry a gun in public? many of the sheriffs in iowa say that is not safe for anyone. they would like to see the law changed. others say even if that's true, you can't take away a person's second amendment rights. michael basher is completely blind and always has been. -- barber. that didn't stop him from geting a concealed carry permit to carry his handgun out with him in public. >> the second amendment does not say we have the right to bear arms, unless we're disabled. i should be able to protect my family just like you can.

>> reporter: the hawkeye state has been quietly granting conceal carry permits to the legally blind for several years. many state law enforcement officers say they're very uncomfortable about it and are concerned about public safety. >> they have a right to protect themselves but being a responsible gun owner you have the responsibility where that bullet goes. if you can't see where the bullet will end up, that is our concern maybe you shouldn't be carrying. >> reporter: chairman of the iowa's house public safety committee though says it is not a safety issue. it's a freedom issue. >> they have had training required by our law. they passed a background check which is required by our law. and they can see no evidence of any type that our law needs to be changed. >> reporter: other legislators do want to see changes made though. they are planning on pushing for those changes in the next legislative session in january. martha. martha: all right, garrett, thank you very much. we'll see how that goes. bill: sure will. in moments we expect to see speaker boehner at that microphone. in moments we will give you

details on what we are learning here at the fox news channel about the counteroffer that may go on the floor for a vote in the house today. a lot of this deals with obamacare and whether or not you're going to get a budget resolution before the deadline which is what, 37 hours from now? all that is coming up. a big hot hour, top of the hour. three minutes away.

martha: all right, a fox fuse alert now, big developments in the government showdown right now. house republicans returning serve, saying they want to reopen the government and offering their own bill on the debt ceiling. welcome to a brand new hour of "america's newsroom," everybody, boy, we've got something hopping at the podium on capitol hill. i'm martha maccallum. bill: a lot of folks thought it would come down to the 11th hour, the house republican plan goes after elements of obamacare clearly and calls for a suspension of that medical device tax.

mike emanuel is running all this down on the hill. let's start with what we think we know, good morning. >> reporter: well, bill, here's what the house republicans are proposing as a counteroffer. we knew they would not like the outlines of a deal that harry reid and senator mitch mcconnell had been negotiating, so they're going to counter with funding the government through february 15th, to raise the nation's borrowing authority until february 7th, no extraordinary measures meaning that it is february 7th and that is it, and then they have got to deal with the debt at that point. it would have members of congress and political appointees in the administration live under obamacare, a lot of people think that is a very fair measure. why not make them live under it? a two-year delay of the medical device tax which does have a lot of bipartisan support in both the house and the senate and income verification to make sure there is not fraud related to obamacare. so not really central componentsover the president's health care -- of the

president's health care law, kind of things on the outside that have a lot of bipartisan support, bill. bill: and you wonder, they're not necessarily nibbling at the edges here, but they want to be able to say they exacted some change in the law that many are opposed against it. you mentioned the medical device tax, apparently, there were 30 senators on the democratic side who supported this just recently. will you see a vote on the floor of the house on this proposal today? >> reporter: we do expect that they're going to try to get it on the floor as quickly as possible. obviously, the clock, the calendar's becoming a factor, so we do expect the house will move quickly to get this passed to see the senate's next play. i should note in about an hour senate republicans and their leadership are going to get the latest details in terms of what senator mcconnell's been able to negotiate with senator reid. it'll be interesting to see what they think as they hear about this plan that the house is developing. this house plan sounds an awful lot like the plan gop senator

susan collins from maine was working on with 12 senators, bipartisan senators. so this plan may have a good amount of southern in the united states senate, but, of course, that chamber is controlled by democrat harry reid, so all eyes will be watching his next play after this bill may be sent over to him to consider. bill: interesting observation. so house republicans may be trying to revive senator collins' idea from over the weekend. we were just watching the floor of the senate, so they're getting underway right now. have you heard how the meeting went with house republicans? do you get a sense of where they are in terms of unity on this or not yet, mike? >> reporter: i have not gotten that readout just yet. we were tig that going in they would not be very happy with what the senate was considering, and so by coming up with their own plan, some kind of bipartisan perhaps compromise, that may have made the rank and file a little bit happier to say you don't have to just accept

what the senate's going to send over, we're going to take our own action. so perhaps trying to go on offense a little bit as opposed to playing defense in the final hours of the standoff. martha: mike, it seems like the two biggest elements of this that are different than what we heard from the senate are the two-year extension of the tax on medical devices, and darrell issa says, you know, that's very important to him. does it appear to you, you know, that the people who have been the strongest against, you know, obamacare, that this is what they're sort of hanging on to at this point, that medical device issue? >> reporter: yeah. they seem to want something be, martha, thrown many to deal with it, and this is wildly unpopular with a lot of democrats including amy klobuchar from minnesota who says, you know, i'm paraphrasing, but essentially, it's been very bad for businesses that make wheelchairs and that sort of thing to have this extra tax put on people who are buying medical equipment and that sort of thing. and so a lot of democrats would

like to see this go, and so the question is will senate majority leader harry reid accept that as part of a deal, or will he fight that tooth and nail as well? even though a lot of his members are for getting rid of it themselves. martha: and what about this issue of having congress, you know, receive obamacare as their health plan as well? you were pushes and fights to keep members from having to do that. now that could get kind of uncomfortable, couldn't it? >> reporter: well, my understanding, martha, is -- and this is breaking news, so we're rolling with it -- but my understanding is staffers would not be forced to live under obamacare, and that was a big hot button issue because there was a lot of concern that with a lot of staffers who don't make huge salaries on capitol hill, would they leave congress because they were going to have to pay a whole lot more for tear health care. and my understanding is that this would be for political appointees in the administration and for members of congress. so if you pass this bill, you thought it was such a great idea, you should live under it.

and this plays very well with average americans around the country who are saying if i have to live under it, why don't you? so that should be well received by the american public. we'll see how the negotiations go in the hours ahead. martha: and how the reality and practicality of that would play out is another huge question we would have in terms of whether or not these members of congress would actually end up using obamacare as their own health care. fascinating that the staff members, it's considered they couldn't live under it because it would cost too much money, these often-young staff members also says a lot about what many americans would be feeling under the plan, it would appear. mike, thank you very much. we'll let you get back to it as this continues to be a fast-moving situation. on the left-hand side of your screen, we're waiting for john boehner to come out with the details of what the gop says they may be able to pass as early as this afternoon. jonah goldberg is a fox news contributor, and he joins me with his thoughts on this newly-emerging plan from the house side. what do you think, jonah?

>> i think that john boehner is in a really rough position in the fact that he doesn't really actually have a majority to run. he's basically the head of a coalition between what you could call the cruz caucus of hard core tea partiers and people who want to play this out and also, and then the republicans who want to follow his leadership. and that means that he has to have some kind of win in his column for him to keep his speakership and for the republicans, for the full coalition to go along. i'm a little dubious that harry reid is going to do anything about what the house puts out. you know, he thinks that he's been winning this, this shutdown. he's the one who's been very aggressive about pressing for even more concessions from republicans, and he thinks that the republicans have been losing this game. and all the evidence is that he doesn't care that the democrats are being hurt by in this the polls as well, so i think he might just simply ignore the

stuff coming out of the house like he's done so many times already. martha: yeah, we'll see. another thing that really interests me, jonah, is that if you give the unions back that $63 per employee which is one of the ways that this plan pays for itself, that $63 tacked on to every single insurance policy raises a lot of money in the end. and then on the other side of it, you've got the medical device taxes which is part of this bill. these are the pieces that need to be very closely cobbled together to even hope to pay for this plan. so isn't the white house going to look at those two chunks and say, all right, guys, you better go back and do the math on this, because how are we going to make this work? >> no, you make a good point, and particularly when you figure that at least so far we don't know, maybe one day when they stop contracting out the web site to the amish community, the obamacare web site will do better. but as it stands right now, you're not getting a lot of young people signing up. and if you don't have a lot of young people signing up willing to pay more than they need to

for health insurance, you go into what the actuaries call a death spiral. and if you start taking away the other aspects of revenue for this thing, obamacare's going to get very expensive without paying for itself very, very quickly. martha: do you buy into robert gibbs' argument that if it weren't for the shutdown, the real catastrophe that is the rollout of this plan would be much more front and center on people's minds? >> oh, i mean, i very rarely find myself saying words like i agree with robert gibbs, but there are a lot of conservatives who have been saying this for a while. charles krauthammer's been saying it on "special report" for a long time, i've been saying it that if it weren't for government shutdown drama in the press, all eyes would have been on the spectacular failure of the rollout for obamacare. that's not necessarily an argument against the shutdown tactics, but i think that's an objective truth, that this has obscured what has been easily the single biggest i.t. disaster in american history. martha: all right. jonah, thank you very much.

bill: you mean worse than y2k? [laughter] bill: listen, what want to brinn bret baier now, good day to you. reading a couple things crossing right now. jonah's not sure harry reid would even go for this deal. what reid is apparently saying is that he's confident they will reach a comprehensive agreement this week and avoid default, then he goes on to say there are, quote, productive negotiations underway with membership mcconnell. so the -- mitch mcconnell. is this something the senate would take up and agree to? >> yeah, i think that's the big question. we're going to hear from house leaders in just a moment, and i tell you what, they're adding on to a deal that mitch mcconnell is in the process of kind of ironing out with senator reid. notice that senator reid didn't say i'm working closely with speaker boehner or house republican leaders. there is a sense that the republicans in the house will need to see something. they will need to see something in their ledger in order to get

it through their chamber. ask that's a big -- and that's a big part of this process. so that's why you're seeing the add-on of the two-year delay on the medical device tax, the taking away the sub subsidies fr congress and administration officials and their staff for obamacare, and i think those are the things that are going to be the sticking points. bill: medical devices, you're talking about everything from a pacemaker to a wheelchair, right? >> sure. i mean, you're talking about a lot of things that fall under that category. a lot of companies that fall under that big title of medical devices, and a lot of senators and lawmakers were feeling pressure from those companies. in fact, the senate, as you may remember, voted against, voted to repeal that tax in the senate budget. now, what senators will tell you, i think, is that in a conference committee where the house and senate comes together to iron out their two budgets -- there is a senate budget and a house budget -- they would have to have a final report by

december 15th, and they would say that the medical device issue would be dealt with in there. house republicans, i think, want it more explicitly laid out, and that's part of this back and forth. bill: you know, one thing our viewers write to us about a lot and i know you get this as well is how members of congress can pass a law and then amend the law to make sure that a they don't have to live with the law. and, essentially, the subsidies under obamacare would effectively do that for members of congress, their top aides and members of the administration. now, apparently, the house republicans want everybody to live by the same law and the same rules. it's been our understanding over the past couple of weeks even republicans were not necessarily onboard pushing that through. >> yeah. bill: is that true? >> in fact, a number of republicans who have said they weren't comfortable with it, they felt like their staff should have the subsidies much like a company provides health care for their employees, they thought that this is the

government providing health care for their employees. as staff of congress or administration officials, etc. so that's the pushback. bill: yeah. bret, thanks. we'll see you at 6:00. something tells me we'll see you before then, though, going to be a busy day. speaker boehner out any moment. thanks to bret, jonah and mike emanuel on the hill. martha: this is in gitmo, one of al-qaeda's most wanted now being held in new york city in a prison as he awaits arraignment for the attacks targeting and killing of americans. how you try a terrorist mastermind in a civilian court. we're going to talk to the former attorney general under president george w. bush, michael mukasey. bill: also details on president bush's late heart problems. it might have been a lot worths than anyone -- a lot worse than anyone was told. martha: and veterans again launching new protests on the national mall, one of the most

passionate and compelling speakers we saw sunday joins us right here in "america's newsroom." >> it's about understanding what we're against and what we're standing here for. you guys understand you are the choir. you have to get it out to the rest of the country! the rest of the world is with you! [applause]

bill: just want to let you know what's happening right now. we've confirmed what the house counteroffer will be and likely a vote today on the floor of the house. but republican members are still meeting together, so once that meeting breaks up, we should see the house speaker, john boehner, that the microphone. so we will watch it for you. when it happens, you'll see it first here on "america's newsroom." martha: captured senior al-qaeda leader now heading to a federal courtroom in new york city this afternoon. al-libi is awaiting trial in a civilian courtroom as the suspected mastermind of the 1998 u.s. embassy bombings in kenya

and tanzania. cia officers have been interstating game aboard a -- interrogating him aboard a u.s. navy ship for nearly one week. some feel that's not nearly long enough. former attorney general michael mukasey joins me now, welcome. is that long enough, one week on the ship. >> >> no way. no way. martha: why? >> intelligence is an incremental thing. you question -- even if somebody is cooperating, you question them, you gather the information that he discloses, then you double back, check it out, get more questions and go back to him. that can take, often does take months, sometimes even years. you're still getting valuable information. this guy was questioned for a week and, apparently, stopped cooperating early on because he stopped eating and drinking, so they brought him here, got nervous about his health. martha: that raises a number of questions. one is could you have treated his health on the ship, could you have brought in -- >> oh, sure. martha: well, that suggests they were anxious to get him here, they were not in any big hurry,

and i have to believe that the administration and that our folks in intelligence would say that's crazy. of course we want to get every single thing out of this guy that we possibly could. >> well, i think that the urge has been and the instinct has been to present these things as criminal cases and to take us back to before 9/11. you know, the bombing here took place in 998. this guy's been on the run for 15 years. he has been a senior member of al-qaeda for about that long, he is the guy who's helping to set them up in north africa and elsewhere in africa, in failed states, various vulnerable places to create a second afghanistan, if you will, another place from which they can lawn are. attacks. this would have been a valuable intelligence source, and yet they want to treat him as if he held up a 7/eleven. martha: just the fact that they wanted to bring him in alive says they think of him as someone who is still well connected. what does he know about what happened in benghazi? i read early on that they sort

of wrote that off, oh, they don't believe he has any connection to benghazi. how would they know at that point? >> number -- exactly. at least one of them is walking around benghazi and has been interviewed by the press. how come we can't get that person? martha: very good question that a lot of people would like to know the answer to. we're looking at the shot of the courtroom here. what's the procedure going to be like? we saw another person involved in it went through the process here in new york. >> right. and he almost beat it, if you remember correctly, because he was acquitted on all the murder charges. he was convicted of conspiring to blow up a government building. martha: he did get a life sentence. >> he did, but it was a near thing. martha: yep. >> and this guy is going to get a lawyer. there will be pretrial motions and so on and so forth, and then at some point there will be a trial with a lot of security for the judge, for the jury, for the lawyers at enormous expense to you and me, and i have very little doubt given the nature of

the evidence against him that that one will have the outcome that i think most people expect and hope for. martha: you look at what happened in benghazi, it has become very clear over the recent months that the war on terror is absolutely not over, and yet this act treats it as if it were. because if you were an enemy combatant and he were part of an ongoing war, he's young, we know that's why they wanted him alive, he's connected -- war on terror, no war or terror? why bring him to new york if that's the case if we are in one? >> well, exactly. and, you know, if we can say the war's over, the president's said that -- all wars must end -- the only sure way to end a war is by surrender. and if that's what we're doing, that's a huge mistake. the fact is that for the other guys the war is still on, and that pretending it isn't isn't going to make it stop. martha: so his intelligence is gone? i mean, is that what we're to take away from this? >> yes. because once he get withs a

lawyer, he will not talk, and after he's convicted, the likelihood is he will not talk. and that'll be months, maybe years from now. parr mar right. former attorney general michael mukasey, thank you very much, sir. good to have you, as always. bill: also awaiting house republicans to speak, we will not leave that. the pens are still meeting -- the members are still meeting, we'll see whether or not they can move forward and when x. all those conspiracy theories are simply not true. that's what our guest will say through his own investigation that shows lee harvey oswald acted alone.

martha: well, president george w. bush's recent heart troubles were much worse than we knew. his doctors saying the blocked artery they found last month could have killed him. he is one of our most physically

active presidents, but the artery in his chest was 95% blocked, it turned out. doctors putting in a stent to open the blockage. exercise alone is no guarantee to not having problems, they say healthy eating and regular checkups remain important. bill: he can crank out the workouts too. it will be a special moment when a soldier receives america's highest military honor. former army captain william swenson receives the medal of honor for risking his lifetime and again during one of the most brutal ambushes in the war in afghanistan. there's dramatic helmet cam video that shows swenson lifting his badly-wounded comrade in the desert, stopping to kiss him on the forehead before with returning to the fight. jennifer griffin's live at the pentagon watching this story with more on the story of captain swenson. jennifer? >> reporter: hi, bill. well, this was one of the most vicious battles in afghanistan,

but for army captain william swenson, the first army officer to be given the medal for valor since vietnam, it is particularly bittersweet because he believes the strict rules of engagement and a delay in sending air support cost u.s. troops their lives. five americans were killed, two dozen injured. this is the same fierce battle in the valley for which marine sergeant dakota meyer was given the medal of honor two years ago. september 8, 2009, the u.s. team was enroute to meet some afghan village elders, they were ambushed and trapped by more than 60 taliban. the battle lasted seven hours. >> could i have done anything different? no. but could i always hope that the outcome could have been different? yeah. >> reporter: the real question is could the u.s. army have done anything differently? two of the commanders of captain swenson have been reprimanded, and some think that that is the reason his medal of honor award was delayed, bill. bill: so he could have and should have perhaps been

recognized years ago? >> reporter: that's right. it's currently under investigation by the army. awards like this don't get lost unless someone wants it to. in essence, captain swenson was nominated at the same time dakota meyer was, but his nomination was, quote, lost in the army's bureaucracy for 19 months. most agree it was because captain swenson, who was retired early, by the way, spoke up and complained loudly and bitterly. his two two commanding officers were reprimanded for inaction that day. the real tragedy is that instead of being rewarded for his her eauism four years ago, he feels he was ostracized by the army, an attempt to discredit him. he has been out of work, unemployed since two and a half years ago. bill: jennifer griffin from the pentagon. martha? martha: today they are back on the national mall, veterans not happy with the government that they put their lives on the line to protect and preserve. >> there is no place to go past

america! they shut these things down, and if the veterans are quiet, the last bastion of americanism that this country has. this place goes to the ash heap of history. do not let that happen! it rests on you! martha: he's become one of the leading voices of this protest. that was former navy seal ben smith, and there he is about to join us live right after this break. ♪ ho ho ho

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martha: so there's a deal of sorts brewing on the house gop side, we're waiting for them to explain it to us, but moments ago here is california congressman darrell issa on the whole thing. watch this. >> we have a republican alternative that is very similar to the senate. we think it's considerably better. it does deal, as i'm sure you're going to hear again and again, it does deal with the medical device tax. it also deals with the so-called vitter amendment for members of congress, the president, the vice president and the cabinet, as it should. >> the problem with the senate still? what was the main problem that was raised? >> well, they haven't brought it over yet -- >> well, the senate proposal -- >> well, we think we've enhanced it in a number of ways including if obamacare is good for members of congress, then it's good for the president. you know, the president signed a bill that left himself out of obamacare but put members of congress in. i think it's time that the president go into obamacare, and i mean really into obamacare. >> the medical device --

>> what happens if the senate democrats strip out the language? >> well, you know, i famously said, you know, i famously said, you know, i'm not going to deal with things that haven't happened yet, and i think in this case we haven't yet passed our bill, they haven't yet passed their bill. we've evaluated where their thinking is and the idea of compromise is look where their thinking is, look where our thinking is, propose something that they should be able to accept. and so we're today going to vote a bill that we believe the senate should accept based on their likely negotiation. now, if the senate wants to say my way or the highway, then i suggest that senate republicans not go along with that strategy, but rather with a strategy that the house and senate can vote on, and it can become law. thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> february 7th or january 15th for the cr? >> you know, i believe the dates the senate are looking at are the dates we're trying to look at. again, the speaker is trying to

find what is possible in the senate and what's possible in the house and bring them together. we're going to move what's possible in the house today. we believe it is close enough to what's possible in the senate that a senate republicans should work with senate democrats to say this is one we can both live with, including as many provisions as the senate has. but, of course, it does have some important things. look, i think if the president thinks so well of obamacare and the vice president thinks so well of obamacare, he should be in it. so i think for the members of the -- for sebelius to not in obamacare and then not feel the pape of its complete and total failure to perform at the levels is a good example of where, you know, getting into it is important. and i think that was the provision when the senate put in members of congress. members of our staff are not particularly important to understand that they're different than other federal workers. but appointees of the president, the president, the vice president, members of congress,

it might very well be good for them to be in the affordable care act and find out that when you go online, you can't get online. martha: very interesting. from darrell issa who seems to be suggesting that the house side, the gop side has come to some kind of agreement on what they're going to put forth. we have told you some of the things we believe are going to be in that, a two-year delay for the medical devices tax which a number of companies have found onerous, however, it helped pay for obamacare. what will happen on the senate side? he's saying, you know, the republicans in the senate need to hold fast on this and support their republican brethren on the house side if the democrats in the senate bristle at this deal, because they very much want to get something done. so we'll see where this goes. we'll take you there live as soon as that gets under way. bill: also in washington american veterans around the country again gathering at the world war ii memorial on the national mall, protesting the partial shutdown. moments ago here is one veteran

at the mall. >> behind me, ladies and gentlemen, are representatives from the military coalition. they have my back. unlike the administration and congress which doesn't have my back. as we stand here, the government is shut down, military readiness is eroding, veterans fear they will not -- disabled veterans fear they will not be getting checks, dependents and survivors have that worry. that shouldn't be. bill: former navy seal ben smith is with me now and, ben, good day to you. you were quite vocal on sunday, you got a lot of attention for what appeared to be a short but very succinct speech at the world war ii memorial. you said something to our producers a bit earlier today, you think the government is trying to provoke the veterans to do something. what do you mean by that? >> and that's just not my

statement. i mean, within, within the people who see things wrong here who are looking at the shutdown, this is, this can be absolutely planned. it's a conversation. they want us to do something. they either want to diminish our voice or our significance or draw contact, and they can crush us. i mean, you've got sheila jackson lee who is calling for martial law to end this shutdown. i mean, that that's insane. that's getting rid of the constitution of the united states. which is also what every service member has signed up to and including their life for to protect and defend the constitution of the united states against enemies both foreign and domestic. so we've got a government here that seems to be wanting to create the conditions that they want to take our second amendment, you know?

they're going for the second amendment. they're trying to take guns from the veterans with ptsd and all those types of things. voting rights, in the past elections there was a lot of problems with the veterans and voting, getting the ballots back from overseas. and they want to discredit the military and get us to do something stupid so they can lock us down, get rid of, you know, you can call it a conservative tea party movement, it's more people who believe in the foundations of this country are the people that they're poking at which are the citizens of this country. bill: well, what -- >> the people in the government. bill: make sense of this. we're looking at the world war ii memorial in washington. i mean, it's essentially a sidewalk that comes off the mall. why would the government put up barricades, pay people, spend the money so that they could install barricades to keep people out? why would that happen? >> well, there's such political

dissension in the country. they're thumbing their noses at each other. and the thing is, the american citizen and the american service member are trying to fight over us or to get votes, and it's become a political war game. it's like a cold civil war out there for which way the country wants to go, and the right isn't the right anymore. there's no real american -- real political figures who believe in the constitution. and, you know, i could name a few of them who with i would kind of trust on the hill. it's amazing. bill: only a few. >> they're using us. bill: yeah. and you've made the point clear that, you know, you think the military's being used as pawns in this whole fight back and forth. tell me about the oathkeepers. who are these people trying to keep the memorials open in washington? >> yeah. the ohskeepers are -- oathkeepers are going to be

standing watch there. when i was there at the event, i had to do security for people coming in, you know, like the figures coming in and out. and i needed people fast. and the oathkeepers, you know, have always been there. we have a good relationship, and they help set up the security, they helped -- bill: so they're kind of standing, they're kind of standing guard right now, right, ben? >> yes. yes. and you know what? that's who we are. that's just a veteran. it's not in particular to this group. any veteran who sees something going on, that's why you see in a lot of -- within the movement or the protests that are happening on, i don't know, my side of the fence whatever side that is politically i don't know these days, but there's no violence. there's no profanity, no one there is drunk. they're not paid to be there, and there's respect and dignity. they're there just to keep order

and everyone in line to be good. that's what they're there for. bill: well, you're in knoxville, tennessee, today. i imagine you'll be in washington again very soon, and we'll see what happens here at the memorial. ben smith, thank you for your service in iraq in 2005 and 2006. >> thank you for the service members who didn't come back. bill: thank you, ben. thank you. to our viewers at home, tell us what you think. is the government using the military as pawns? you can send us a tweet @martha maccallum, @bill hemmer. he was exceedingly vocal in some of the clips from sunday's rally. martha: trying to get the government open, we just had in our urgent queue that they have, the republican house members have asked all staff members to leave the room, so it is only members that are in the room right now as they try to hammer this out, and we'll see how it goes on their side. lots going on today, so forget everything that you have heard about the conspiracies behind

the kennedy assassination. the brand new research that says all of that is bunk. larry sabato explains. bill: also, families in one community watching in horrors as their homes are slowly devoured. why they say the local government is at fault here. >> whoever started this project is the ones who are responsible, ultimately, for every sink hole and what has now happened. the borough's not taking any responsibility for any of it. >> do you think they should? >> yes. >> oh, yeah.

martha: what's going on inside those closed doors? we are still waiting for them to emerge and talk about the gop house offer to reopen the government and to deal with the debt limit issue. peter barnes from the fox business network is live in washington. so, peter, you know, is there dissension on the gop side in the house ranks here, and when do we expect to hear from them? >> reporter: well, we're waiting for them to come out of

their conference meeting any minute now, martha, and for speaker boehner to come up to the microphones and, basically, announce that thous republicans will not accept the deal that the senate leaders, senate democratic leader reid and republican leader mitch mcconnell, are putting together. in fact, it looks like we might be setting up another round of legislative ping-pong here. let me tell you what the house republicans want to do. they want to continue to push for this, a provision that would apply obamacare to members of congress, senators, the president, the vice president and the cabinet, and that would basically eliminate any subsidies for those officials. that's something house republicans have been fighting for. they want a two-year delay on the medical device tax. that's something that the president and the democrats in the senate have rejected, is not currently in the compromise plan that reid and mcconnell are

working on. they also want income verification to prevent fraud for people who are getting subsidies for, to buy their health insurance, lower income folks and middle class families that might qualify for subsidies. both chambers agree on that. they also want to extend, open the government and fund it with a continuing resolution, budget resolution to january 15th. that's also what the senate wants to do, and they want to increase and extend the debt ceiling to february 7th, that's about the time that reid and mcconnell want to take the debt ceiling out to too. so we're getting, we're getting some pushback from house republicans. it appears that they may be sending their proposal now over to the senate. so ping-pong. martha: yeah. and it looks like it may be a little bit tighter, the vote, according to some of what we're hearing in the house than it might be once it gets sent back to the senate. and politically, peter, it feels

like all sides would like to get some deal done. there was a lot of talk about should they separate the cr from the debt limit issue and continue -- and now it looks like, you know, this is one big ball of wax at this point, right? >> reporter: yeah. they're all circling around what could be a compromise, but the house republicans want a win on this obamacare issue. they really want to put a skin on the wall for that. and so far the senate proposal, what we know of it, really doesn't give the house republicans a big win or even a modest win on the obamacare stuff. martha: yeah. i mean, when you think back to ted cruz's filibuster and wanting to defund obamacare and now what it has really whittled down to is the possibility that the medical device tax might be delayed and also this possibility that maybe members of congress and the president as we just heard darrell issa say would have to have obamacare as their own plan as well.

so we'll see what happens. peter, we're going to leaf it there. -- leave it there. thinking that they might be coming out. thank you so much. bill: all right. waiting on jenna lee right now to tell us what's going to roll our way happening now, happening right now. jenna: we show up much quicker than the republicans. in the meantime, day 15 of the government shutdown, is there still time to get the deal done for thursday, and what does it mean to you. fox team coverage from you, plus analysis from cal thomas and david drucker. we'll take you inside discussions. and on a lighter note -- or not, depending on what perspective you have -- are our kids getting too much homework? what happened when a father tries to do his 13-year-old's assignments? a great panel coming up, top of the hour. bill: great job, jenna. waiting on the house leadership, and why would a democratic senator, barbara boxer, compare the government shutdown to spousal abuse? that's next.

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bill: okay, to our viewers at home and around the world, we are waiting on house speaker john boehner as we await his statement about where republicans are right now. this is senator barbara boxer, the democrat from california, on the floor of the senate comparing the government shutdown and perhaps those who had a hand in that to domestic violence. just listen to this, and we'll talk about it. >> when you start acting like you're committing domestic abuse, you've got a problem. i love you, dear, but, you know, i'm shutting down your entire government. i love you, dear, but i'm going

to default x you're going to be weak. something is dreadfully wrong. bill: so that raised some eyebrows, as it clearly should have with that comparison -- martha: a shutdown as a metaphor for spousal abuse, apparently. bill: yeah. how do you feel about that as a woman? martha: as a woman, as anybody i think it's a bit of a reach. i had a hard time figuring out what she was getting at for a while there, and a lot of people on the other side would argue that it's abusive to run up $17 trillion in debt for a country, so there's two sides to every argument, and barbara boxer decided to go down the spousal abuse -- i don't know, i think i'll do a pet foron spousal abuse, i don't know. bill: you've got to ask yourself when is $17 trillion not enough? because that's what we're coming up on right now. martha: it's not enough, apparently. bill: bumping up against that already. martha: when you think about some of the language that has been used in this debate, republicans have been called

extremistists and i'd ideological crusaders by the president, squealing political pigs by senator turbine, people with bombs strapped to their chests was also used by one of the spokesmen for the president. it's gotten pretty ugly, and even if we reach a deal, even if they come out right now, john boehner moments away, and say, look, we have something we like, we can get this through the house and even if the senate as has been suspected would also be able to pass this deal, we're going to be coming back around this tree in just a couple of months, just down the road in january and february. and you have to wonder what the ratings agencies think when they look at this situation, because we've been told by them last time around that our credit rating was at risk if we didn't start to do some serious deficit reduction. so december 13th is another deadline that is potentially part of this deal for the two sides to come together and try to reach some kind of plan that gets us in the direction of financial stability down the road. but, you know, that feels like a long, long way away, doesn't it

right now? bill: 90 days can go like that. and it'll be here sooner hand you think. we're waiting on house speaker, let's get a break here. back in a moment right here as our coverage continues from the hill. great. this is the last thing i need.) seriously? let's take this puppy over to midas and get you some of the good 'ol midas touch. hey you know what? i'll drive! i really didn't think this through. brakes, tires, oil, everything. (whistling)

bill: right now, nine families in the a small pennsylvania town can only wait and worry as the earth opens up beneath their homes. they were forced to abandon their homes as four sinkholes opened. they swallowed a utility poll and under some foundation. experts say repairs won't begin until later this week as earliest. they say recent road crux and heavy rains are causing the problem. martha: that does not look like a good situation. there is a big hole in washington as well. they think it might be repaired sometime next week but can't say for sure. at this point we wait and we watch. bill: waited 90 minutes for it. it will happen. we don't know then. see you at 1:00 later today.

martha: bye everybody, "happening now" starts right now. jon: fox news alert. we're waiting to hear any moment now from the speaker of the house. john boehner will hold a news conference in front of the fashion you see there to announce what the house intend to do. they have just held a members-only meeting, not even staff allowed. staffers were kicked out of this membership meeting among the house republicans to talk about what they're going to do with regard to the government shutdown and the budget deficit, i'm sorry, the budget ceiling. that it is due to expire or reach this week. when the speaker heads to the microphones there, any minute now as i said, you will hear it here first on fox. we're told that house republicans are feeling pretty positive about the plan they come up with. they say it is very similar to the senate plan. that could mean an end to all of this, these goings on in washington we've been talking about more than two weeks now. jenna: photographers are ready to