evening. you have that opportunity. we have news waiting for you right now so become a premium member. i am bill o'reilly. please always remember the spin starts here, so definitely looking out for you. welcome to the kelly file. a new fallout from an ugly fight. president obama today slamming the right for its, quote, damaging rhetoric in a strategy he says em boboldened enemies. sarah palin and james carville on that. liberal groups calling for the arrest and trial of republican leaders for crimes against the country. harvard law professor alan der sho wits reacts. plus i'll ask about o.j. simpson o.j. simpson's plans for just after prison. tv host? plus, did the army throw this soldier under the bus. a 28-year-old sentenced to two

decades in prison for giving the order to defend his platoon on the battlefield. we'll investigate. from the world headquarters of fox news, it's "the kelly file" with megan kelly. and tonight fresh battle scars from the war over our soaring debt and the failure to do a thing to fix it. i'm megan kelly. welcome, everyone. just hours after congress agrees to raise the debt limit through february and get the government working again through mid-january, president obama stepped up to the microphones and went after his political opponents, accusing them of brinksmanship and of trying to break the government, even encouraging our enemies. here's a sample. >> probably nothing has done more damage to america's credibility in the world, our standing with other countries than the spectacle that we've seen these past several weeks. it's encouraged our enemies, it's emboldened our competitors.

>> ed henry is our chief white house correspondent. we talked last night, ed, about tone and how the president seemed to strike just the right one last night when he came out and spoke, and i asked you whether he was likely to maintain that even tone on a go forward basis. and today in these remarks, the answer was what? >> well, megan, essentially i knew you were going to follow up with me tonight, and he didn't quite strike the same tone, because he said he wanted to sort of turn the page, but he immediately charged that republicans like ted cruz were irresponsible in this debate, marco rubio pouncing by noting, look, it was the president's own aides here at the white house who were recalling the president's terrorists for fighting this battle. the criticism of the president today is nothing compared to what fellow republicans are saying about each other, various senators saying ted cruz's filibuster was a disaster. in fact, if you look at the polling tonight, it suggests

there is some real damage that could have been done for republicans heading into those midterms next year. there was a rasmussen poll back in the summer that suggested of who you want to run the house of representatives, democrats were up by just one point, 38 to 39 parties. now they are basically up 35 to 45% democrats. the president today tried to bridge the gap by saying there are three areas where he thinks everyone can work together, a big budget deal, immigration reform as well as a farm bill. then he said something odd. he said, if you don't like the policies, you need to go win in an election. house republicans firing back tonight and saying, they won their election, they kept control of the house last november just like the president won the white house and he has to find a way to work with them. >> that's an interesting point. henry, thank you. the president you heard suggesting that nothing has done more damage to our credibility in the world and our standing with other countries than this latest d.c. fight. really? joining me now, former alaska

governor sarah palin and she's a fox news contributor. governor, good to see you again. your thoughts on that remark by the president? >> i think that remark is one of his more out of touch remarks that we've heard in recent days. no, what emboldened our enemies and what empowered competitors was his promise to fundamentally transform america from being a solvent, free, exceptional country into something that we're not going to recognize. also what has emboldened enemies is the doubling of our debt since he's been elected, putting us on a path of bankruptcy and then locking up pipe lines and resources that will result in us being more reliant on foreign imports for energy. and then, of course, he, having left behind his administration left behind our brave men in benghazi to be murdered. then, of course, there is syria where he promised to bomb syria because in that civil war, syria was going to bomb syria, and then we never heard another word

again about his threat to bomb in a foreign civil war. and then, of course, most recently, megan, using our military, those who would fight against our enemies, our military, our vets, shutting down their memorials and holding them hostage in terms of budget deals, threatening to withhold paychecks for our brave men and women. as for economic -- as for economic competitors, corporate tax -- >> i want to ask a question. >> -- second highest in the industrialized world. >> let me get this in because you heard ed henry ask about the hit the republicans took on the generic ballot. you heard people watch who said i stood with ted cruz, i stood with governor palin, i stood with those who took a stand on debt and obama care, but i don't want to lose the house of representatives because it's the only body the republicans hold, and these people who see the way you do, they don't want to lose that body. so your thoughts on how the generic ballot has been affected

negatively for the republicans, according to what ed just reported? >> people who see the way that i and ted cruz and mike lee and a whole lot of other americans see that we are taxed enough already. of course, that's the ak acrony for the tea party movement, we are taxed already and we believe that's the blueprint that leads us to a more perfect union and will fight very strong for that. so if the gop standing strong on the planks and the platform that represent everything that i just mentioned, if we stand united, well, then we won't lose the house, and we could even win back the senate. i tell you, fiscal conservatives are more energized than ever after last night's deal where americans came out as the losers because we're just going to incur more and more debt, this unsustainable spending spree that barack obama is on. no, we're saying enough is enough and we are energized. >> what's going to happen now? because you had sent out posted on your facebook something suggesting that you might get

behind some potential challen challengers to existing republicans up for reelection from mitch mcconnell to graham to alexander. are you prepared to back challengers to these republican senators? >> i've been saying for years that robust republican primaries make for a better system. it makes people work harder and expresses articulately what their record is and what their intentions for our country is. so as for the individual races, i'm going to see who the opposition to the sitting kind of status quo politicians are, and we'll go from there. but megan, here's the deal. what we're talking about right now, the enemy of america's economic freedom is this fundamental transformation of america. the enemy of the enemy is my

friend, is any common sense conservative's friend. so we do have to consider a politician's record, truly what the it is they intend to do to stop this manipulation and stripping away of our economic freedom, and those who can't stand strong to defend our republic, to defend our constitution, heck, yeah, they've got to be primaried, otherwise we're going down. >> governor palin, thank you so much for your thoughts. we appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> the president claimed the political mess in washington is being made worse by, quote, the talking heads. talking head james carville joins us live on that. plus, liberal groups are calling for the arrest of public leaders of crimes around the country. guess how many signatures they have so far? harvard professor alan dershowitz is live, next. ♪

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one story catching fire tonight involves liberal groups petitioning on the website moveon.org asking the justice department to arrest and try. leaders like eric canter and speaker of the house, john boehner, their alleged crime, conspiracy against the united states of america, and at last count they've got 30,000 signatures of people who support this. joining me now, alan dershowitz, harvard law professor and author of the new book "taking the stand: my life in the law."

professor, good to see you again. sedition? >> i can't wait to defend them. this would really be an easy case to win. move on is an absolutely irresponsible organization. they are the mirror left wing image of the most extreme people on the right, and their idea of trying to criminalize policy differences is absolutely absurd and irresponsible. it's the same thing that some liberals tried to do to tom delay and, of course, his conviction was reversed in the texas courts. what the republicans tried to do to bill clinton. let's punish people politically if you disagree with their politics, but let's not use the criminal justice system improperly. in my book "taking the stand," i talk about overcriminalization, how we go after too many people, how we try to prevent people from seeing films they would like to see even though the state regards them as improper. the same thing is true with many, many other issues, but the idea of extending the criminal

law and applying it to differences over politics would destroy this country. move on should be ashamed of itself and the 30,000 people who signed that petition should be embarrassed to join in such an absurd petition. >> i thought you were a liberal democrat. aren't you supposed to like move on? >> i hate move on because they're a bunch of radicals, they're not liberals, they are not tolerant of differences. i am a centralist liberal, and i get along very well with centralist conservatives. what i don't like are extremists on either side, and move on is an extremist organization and an irresponsible organization. >> but i read that you said you thought that what ted cruz was doing may have been unconstitutional, that you can make a strong argument that what he was doing was deeply unconstitutional. >> right. i think it violates the spirit of the constitution, article i, section 8, the part of the constitution that deals with the powers of congress drafted by people like alexander hamilton were designed to keep our government open, to keep it

functioning, to pay our debts. i think the spirit of the constitution is violated by threats to close the government. that doesn't make it criminal. that makes it something we can argue about. let the political world decide whether they like it or don't like it. the polls suggest they don't like it. that's the appropriate punishment. political punishment for political acts, not criminal punishment. >> speaking of criminal, one of the most infamous criminals -- well, alleged criminals at the time that you've represented is o.j. simpson. and there is a report out tonight that he now has plans -- he is still waiting to find out whether his appeal is going to be successful and he's going to get out of prison. apparently he's got a promoter who works with him, and that promoter, mr. pardo, is claiming that o.j.'s plans are -- he's going to be out of prison by christmas skpeez goiand he's got a tv show called "holy safari" where he runs around talking about his religious rebirth and counsels people on the lord. >> as i argue in my book "taking

the stand" representing someone doesn't mean you like someone or approve of what they're doing now. this is really sill iness. i can tell you what i told him because this was done in public, not in private. after the acquittal was rendered in the case, i said, get your face out of the public. nobody ever wants to see you again. do what klaas van bulen did. go to england. disappear. you won your case, be satisfied. what does he do? he goes to nevada, he gets into trouble again, he gets into trouble again, now he wants to do a talk show. disappear. nobody wants to see you. we won your case. by the way, i tell the story in the book of how we won the case. we didn't win, by the way. the other side lost. we were able to prove that the police tried to frame a man they honestly believe was guilty by putting -- pouring blood on one of his socks. but the blood had edta, a chemical that's not found in the human body, only found in test tubes, and we caught him. and what the jury basically said

is he may or may not be guilty, maybe he is guilty, but we're not going to allow the state to try to frame a guilty man. i have a new interesting twist on the o.j. simpson case. >> i wanted to ask you about this, because i know you also met with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and he asked you a question. you sit down with him, you want to talk about israel, and what does ehe want to talk about wit you? >> he takes me into a secret room, and he said, i've always wanted to ask you this. he said, did o.j. do it? and i said, did israel have nuclear weapons? he says, i can't tell you that. and i said, aha, i can't tell you that, either. bobby fisher asked me to represent him once and he wouldn't play chess with my son. i said, no, i'm not going to represent you if you won't play chess with my son. what's happened to criminal cases, why i've won more than 30

of my 36 homicide cases by using science. so it's a combination of serious legal look at the law with a lot ofcdotes and vinettes. >> i'm not going to ask you whether he did it, but i am going to ask you, do you know whether he did it? >> he told me he didn't do it, i can tell you that. i have my opinion based on the evidence, and it's not something i can share. i can tell you this, that when marcia clark went up to talk to johnny cochran, as he was making the closing argument, marcia clark said, i want you to think of one thing as you're making your closing argument. i'm not wearing any underwear. i called her and sai can't be true, can it? she said, it's true. i said, what's true, that you weren't wearing any underwear or that you told it to johnny cochran? that i told it to johnny

cochran. i said, what about the other thing? she said, i'll never tell. >> leaving at 75 this year and what a career it's been. thanks so much, professor. >> thank you very much. >> how about that? marc marcia, marcia, marcia. coming up next, our next guest says one of the biggest losers in this showdown, military families. up next, why he thinks they were used as political pawns. and who is going to get fired for failures in the obama carroe rollout. that question just ahead. >> we talked to robert gibbs saying the rollout was so bad in his opinion that somebody should be fired. you've protected kathleen sebelius. short of somebody being fired, what kind of accountability will be there? customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online

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now to the pentagon where defense secretary chuck hagel took to the microphones today after weeks of calls for his resignation. the department of defense hammered over refusing to pay death benefits to the families of fallen soldiers. mr. hagel blamed congress the way the government shutdown impacted families and called this a manufactured crisis. in addition, he said this. >> i am deeply aware of the harm this shutdown inflicted on so many of our civilian personnel. all of our leaders, civilian and military alike, deeply regret what this shutdown has done to our people, and we'll work to repair the damage beginning today. >> joining me now, pete he hegeseth. did that do it for you? >> it sure didn't. you talk about a manufacturing crisis, he better know where that manufacturing came from. we haven't called for secretary hagel to step down, but he certainly has some explaining to

do, why that department didn't do all that it could. and why are we using our military families -- and you've covered this extensively and we've talked about it extensively -- as clear pauwns. with the stroke of a pen with an executive order, the president could have made that issue go away, and i feel like if secretary hagel had made that plea directly, he could have made it go away, or if he had talked about it, but he didn't. >> the shutdown is over, but there is a question of accountability, and have we had it here? what we learned last week was d.o.d. went to d.o.j. and said, hey, does this law pass trying to pay the military cover death benefits? he said, no, it doesn't. d.o.d. said, no, i don't think it does, either. as far as we know, that ended it until the press got ahold of it. >> until the press got ahold of it, and everyone on the hill thought it covered it. they passed that bill believing

it because in the law it said death gra tuity benefits are something we cover. likely the commander in chief or someone close to him was willing to say, let's keep this off the table because it turns the temperature up even higher which the white house believes, skpef ef knows in this shutdown, the white house believes if you turn the temperature up, they can blame republicans. you saw the same thing with the world war ii memorial, you saw the same thing with benefits, even though that program is accepted in advance. this should be vectored at the white house, the people who conjured up the plan to turn the heat up. >> it's hard to believe, honestly, that the commander in chief, that the defense secretary would take what is obviously a sacred obligation, which is standing up for our men and women in uniform, and use it politically. is that not? >> it's very hard to believe. i don't want to believe it. and secretary hagel himself a

decorated vietnam veteran. i don't question his commitment or valor to the troops. which is why we haven't called for his resignation. we said, he's got a leader upstairs that he's taking a lot of direction from, and that's president obama. if it wasn't him, it was a political operative there who was willing to say, if we give away on this -- and you know it was a political strategy from them from the beginning, to not do anything piecemeal, to stand up and say, we will give nothing to republicans, and they were willing to sacrifice veterans and military families. you and i can envision a commander in chief, maybe someone who served who has a different perspective, who would say, hey, let's fight about politics. let's talk about our $17 billion in debt obamacare, and this administration refused to do that. >> when someone finds out a major loophole exists with respect to death benefits, they pick up the phone. >> sign the document and get it done. >> we still don't know the identity of that person. the president this morning claimed the political mess in washington is being made worse

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now that the government is reopened and this threat to our economy is removed, all of us need to stop focusing on the lobbyists and the bloggers and the talking heads on radio and the professional activists who profit from conflict and focus on what the majority of americans sent us here to do. >> well, that was president obama this morning claiming the political mess in washington is being made worse by, quote, the talking heads and professional activists. my next guest might agree.

james carville is a former strategist for bill clinton and tulane professor, and he just wrote a column related to this very point. james, great to see you. thanks for being on the program. >> thank you. >> you wrote a column. look, we've had enough polarization in the country and hyperpartisanship, and you think it doesn't have to be this way. your thoughts. >> i am a talking head, so i guess the president is talking about me. some think i'm an activist, so i am a little bit probably to blame. my point is that we have all this information available to us, but it really doesn't make us smarter because people just go with things they agree it with, but it's the way a drunk uses a lamppost for support, not illumination. that's what i do with my students in tulane is force them into looking into other things that they don't necessarily agree with and hope they'll learn more and make them better citizens. >> you're choosing blogs and so

on to affirm their own view to take in new information. i know you think that sort of the rise of cable news has something to do with this, the rise of the internet has something to do with this. haven't people already been this way, they go someplace to affirm their own view? >> when there was less information, there was less sources of information, people got common information. but my point is when i was at lsu in the early '60s, you got the newspaper and that was it, or you watched the evening news, but tulane students every day have all this other information. what prompted me was reading an interview by justice scalea who says he never reads anything, he just listens to talk radio, and i thought it was funny that the chief justice would sort of brag, saying i only read stuff i agree with. you hear that from lots of

people. hannity in a playboy interview said he didn't read anything that wasn't conservative. i don't, because it would drive me crazy, liberals drive me crazy as a general rule, anyway, but if i did, i wouldn't admit to it. it seems to me like people think that's like a cool thing that they don't expose themselves. none of my friends would, either. >> i think a lot of people feel as justice scalea does. they have the way they see the world and they don't necessarily want to hear it spun in a different way. i mean, the washington times is a legitimate publication and it maybe takes a different view of things a little bit in the way the veneer times takes a different view. let me ask you how you do it. you and your wife marilyn matalin are so politically divided. she worked for president bush,

you worked for president clinton. how do you do it? most people can't talk about politics at the dinner table, let alone be married. >> sometimes we fight about it. we learn what not to talk about. after any marriage, i guess, it will be 20 years thanksgiving, you learn what's off the table or how not to talk about it. and i wouldn't have said anything about this latest thing because it was just -- i knew what would happen and you just want to, like, dig the knife in somebody. it just makes it worse so you shut up about it. >> you wouldn't mention to mary about what's happened with senator cruz and all that. she doesn't want to hear about that? >> she sdaedoesn't want to hear about that. and if it's something bad for the democrats, she wouldn't bring it up to me because i don't want to hear about it. it doesn't matter what outlet you looked at, you knew what happened with the republicans in this. >> let me ask you about this point, though, because it's

interesting to listen to president obama suggesting the talking heads are aggravating things and so on, and you know a lot of people feel that he's been, you know, the source of some of this divisiveness. he promised there is no red america, there's no blue america, but then he got into office and he started talking about how the republicans want dirty air and they want dirty water, and they're suspicious about kids getting food, they're suspicious about the elderly getting health care, and the people on the right said, i'm feeling a little divided. >> i thought that it was a naive argument during the campaign, and i said so, and i've said it brchlt you' before. you're not going to change the culture of washington, and the country is divided. but what he did as opposed to what he did in august of 2011 where he kind of allowed himself to be run over by republicans, thank god this time, thanks to senator reid, thank you very much, senator reid, the democrats said no.

and they were right and they were vindicate bid t-- vindicatd by the public, and sometimes you have to scrap it out like this. i think sometimes also you can disagree with people without being disagreeable. >> that's definitely true, but the thing is, i know that the country feels sort of polarized right now, and i think you pick up on that in your piece, but i know that people will say, you know, people on the left will say it's those congressional republicans, and people on the right will say it comes straight from the top because we have a president who said we're all going to have a kum-ba-ya moment and the president said the republicans want dirty children and dirty air. >> the president can go back and forth on who said what, but at some level the country is divided and we kind of slug it out in an election. you know, there are some things we can do and some thinge

can't. sometimes you have to have a political fight, like we just witnessed, and some side has to get the upper hand. that's what just happened, and i suspect that it won't happen again in the near future, but one never knows and we'll go to 2014 and we'll fight it out again. my only point is that you should -- you should at least be knowledgeable about what the other side is saying. you know, you're not going to probably change your mind, but it helps to know. >> i really love realclearpolitics.com because they post opinion pieces on all sides and it does sort of help you get a broad world view. anyway, i appreciate that. i appreciate the marital advice as well. james carville, all my best, sir. >> the best to you. thanks. >> you don't want to needle your spouse on a sensitive issue. that's what we can take away from that. don't poke the bear. it is a simple question. is someone getting fired for the failure with this obama care rollout? up next, watch and see what you think.

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fired, what kind of accountability will there be? two companies, gci federal and quality care services. they got millions of dollars in contracts for the website, et cetera, and even robert gibbs is saying it's been botched. is this company planning to turn over -- this is millions of dollars. >> questions about contracts related to this are ones that should be addressed to hms and cms. i don't have that information. what i can tell you the accountability the president seeks today is the accountability that comes from those who are working on implementation, working around the clock to ensure that the consumer experience is improved. >> joining me now, christian anderson, vice president of the winston group and simon rosenberg, analyst and president of indian, a progressive think tank. here's my question. the reason we say who is getting fired and not should somebody be fired is they've got over $93

millionf taxpayers' money just to set up the web sites which apparently stink. $93 million. so we talked about this with pete hegeseth. accountability. where is the accountability for that failure? christian? >> i feel sorry for david carney when he has to defend this rollout. he has a tough job saying there is accountability and everything will be fine. the real accountability has to be made where key decisions were made that led to this disaster. first there was a decision sort of made at the top to not roll out the parameters for what these changes would look like until after the 2012 elections so republicans wouldn't have the parameters as a way to attack democrats, so that goes all the way up to the top. that's president obama who they decided to sort of preserve his ability to be reelected. hey, let's not create a political situation where we roll out these restrictions. >> they're not going to fire him. >> no, they're not going to fire -- >> the current administration is

not going to fire him. so simon, let me ask you. obviously, this has been disastrous. the rollout has been disastrous. that's why you have robert gibbs, who is a huge advocate of the president's out there saying, somebody needs to get fired. this was not well handled, and it may cost this law and the support of this law people's perception of it. your thoughts? >> i don't think anybody should be fired right now, megan. we have to try to fix the changes. let these guys go to work. let kathleen sebelius and the team that's there try to get this thing fixed in the next month, six weeks. if then the exchanges aren't fixed and it's not up and running, then i think we'll be in a different place in terms of accountability and public perception, and obviously the people in the house will be all over this, so they'll have to account to the house of representatives. give them a little more time. it's working in some states. some state exchanges are working. >> you guys agreed it needs to be fixed, obviously. if we're going to have this law, it needs to be fixed.

we're asking about accountability tonight. that's sort of the theme of tonight's show. where is the accountability for the debt, where is the accountability that really gives the short end to the military, and where is the accountability for this rollout because we paid for it. you and i and the viewers paid $100 million to make sure the web sites worked, and they didn't, and now they have traffic plunging 88% at healthcare.gov since its launch. apparently 10 million people tried to go look at it, kristen, but only 35,000 actually registered. >> the timeline of a month to six weeks or so is almost a generous timeline. the real problem here is if young people, healthy people aren't signing up on these exchanges, if they're being deterred because they heard what a disaster this is, it can't work without young people in the system. we need about 7 million people in these exchanges, and about 40% of them would have to be the young and healthy people.

if people who are really sick and really need coverage are the ones hitting refresh, refresh, refresh until they can get these sites to work, but the young, healthy people are saying, you know what, i can't deal with this, donforget it, i'll pay th penalty, then you get into the pool where the amount gets higher and higher and the whole system breaks. i don't even know if six weeks is an effective time system because time is running out. the fact it's been so disastrous already has led a big impression with people that the system is just a mess and i don't want any part of it. >> simon? >> i think a lot has gone right with the obama care rollout in the last year and a half. we have millions of people who are covered now that never were before. no one has to worry about conditions knocking them out of insurance. there are pieces of this that have gone well and some of the states are actually working

well, the ones not part of the federal exchange. i think the key thing here is if we go into december -- there are two sign-up windows, january 1st through march 31st, there has to be a couple million people signed up throughout the year. if there are, then we've got real problems. people don't have to write the check, pay the first premium until december. that's when crunch time is. if there isn't a couple million people signed up, we'll go to plan b here. >> we'll have you guys back. what did you call it, death spiral? >> that's right. >> scary. >> she was good. >> thank you, both. thank you for being here. his lawyer says he's being used as a scapegoat by the army. a young soldier sentenced to two decades in prison for giving the order to defend his platoon on the battlefield. plus, hannity at the top of the hour. >> give me a one-word phrase to describe congress. >> dysfunctional, impractical,

spoiled. >> babies. >> petulant. >> give me a word or phrase to describe president obama. >> resolute. >> unbending, uncompromising. >> sad. >> do any of you blame them all? >> yes. >> this is an important question. how many would throw them all out if you could, all of them? o. ♪ [ male announce ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not bused more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may incrse your risk of osteoporosis some eye prlems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair.

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get your first prescription free and i had like this four wheninch band of bumpsles it started on my back.

that came around to the front of my body. and the pain from it was- it was excruciating. i did not want anyone to brush into me to cause me more pain than i was already enduring. i wanted to just crawl up in a ball and just, just wait till it passed. a decorated prison soldier was thrown into prison for a life and death decision made on the battlefield. his mother is here. first trace with the story. trace? >> reporter: it was days after being in the kandahar unit that he and his platoon started

patrolling a well known stronghold of the taliban. they were approached by three men on motorcycles. he claims they warned him there was a military presence, and everyone riding a motorcycle was perceived to be taliban. lieutenant lorantz ordered two of his men to open fire, killing two afghans. the third ran away. when the bodies were checked, there were no weapons, no cell phones, no radios. the military claims lorantz violated the rules because there was no hostile intent. but a former navy jag officer told us it was kind of a damned in you do, damned in you don't, because if he hadn't opened fire and they were enemy combatants, he would still be at fault. >> nothing defies the inherent right to defense, but that's subjective. and somewhere later on, someone objectively is going to

second-guess what they did not see at the time. >> but then at the trial, one of the soldiers who opened fire tested against lorantz, and i'm quoting here, i was given a lawful order. my life was not threatened at the time. lorantz's family claims those soldiers had grudges. later the soldiers did encounter taliban fighters, and now lieutenant lorantz and his lawyers are going through the appeal process. >> wow. 20 years. thank you. joining me now, anna lorantz, clint lorantz's mother. let's start with the witness testimony against clint by his fellow soldiers. you heard private shiloh and also james skelton who said there was not a reason to shoot at that time, there were no signs that these guys were hostile. >> yes, that is true. >> so what do you make of it? do you dismiss the testimony of

these other soldiers, that there wasn't a reason to shoot? >> no, the testimony has changed, and to me, they asked if they could shoot, and my son gave the order. >> and he's been put in jail -- he was tried in front of a jury and convicted of murder because he gave the order. he didn't pull the trigger, but he gave the order. do you think that there is something -- that there is an agenda afoot here with respect to this conviction? >> yes, i think it's for political gain. to me it's totally unacceptable. >> how so? why would this be for political gain. it's a jury who tried him. >> i don't understand why, that this is happening, but i know my son, and i would never second-guess him. he did what he had to do. he told me he was do it again if he was in the same situation. he made the comment -- the

statement to his soldiers that he would bring them home to his families, and that's what he intended to do. >> i know the testimony and the evidence was that the night before or shortly before this episode happened, they under taliban fire, they did encounter some dangerous characters, and this was supposedly on the mind of your son when he encountered these next three men, these next three afghans, two of whom were killed. the 10-member jury of military officers wound up finding that wasn't enough. what do you think is likely to happen at this point? >> all i can say is that we will fight till the day that we die. during the very same time frame that this happened, this incident happened in afghanistan, that my son was charged with murder for, he received a certificate of perfect leadership during the

very same time frame. and it makes no sense to me. makes no sense to our family because we know who our son -- who my son is. >> do you think this is a situation where hindsight is 20/20 and not being on the battlefield at the moment of the confrontation has led people to judge your son too harshly? >> yes, i do. >> i mean, the interesting thing here is that fellow soldiers, though, have come out to testify against him. and so, you know, the jury was in a position of having to believe the defense or believe some 22 witnesses who i understand took the stand for the prosecution. were you there at the trial? did that evidence give you any pause? >> i was there at the trial, yes. it doesn't matter what they say. those soldiers were not my son's soldiers. he was sent there to a group of

soldiers that did not know him and he did not know them. they had already been there in the battle and their lieutenant had been blown up. and my son told them that he would see that he brought all of them home with their legs. that upset them. >> i got to run because we're coming up against a hard break. my apologies for cutting you off, but all the best to you and thank you for sharing your story. we'll be right back. e gave me s. showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with applicati sites. discontinue andgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman,

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twitter is mean, isn't it? it's mean sometimes. but i still read it. follow us on twitter or check us out on facebook. thanks for watching, everybody. i'm megan kelly and this is "the kelly files." see you tomorrow. the government reopens its doors. >> first government shutdown in 17 years is now over. the good news is we'll bounce back from this. we always do. >> but the fight is far from over. could this be the end of liberalism as you know it. >> no, we're not going away and neither are the millions of americans who have joined this dialog dialogue. >> we're going to continue to fight until we actually see the will of the people prevail. >> this fight is not over. it's really only just begun. "hannity" starts right here, right now. >>